Am I delusional?

Posted my 99 996 with 148,000 miles on my surrounding craigslist area here in so cal, it is a well maintained car with a clean title and desirable options like factory aero kit and lsd and full red leather interior, litronics etc.. I am asking $17,500 but could be pushed to the 16's and have had very few interested. what's the deal?

Lots of cars for sale out there....many with much lower mileage.

Don't hate me for being blunt but 148K on a German car is a bit scary to folks....just my $0.02. Not to me but to some people.

Your price is delusional

To get the best sales price you need a wider market than local Craig's List. Not saying you'll get 17.5 but obviously your odds are much better if you get it out there in front of a higher percentage of Porsche lovers...

Very high miles and harder to sell sports cars in the Winter.

I thought desirable options and a well maintained car would be up to par with a base 996 with lower mileage and in rougher condition in terms of pricing.

Options add value for the manufacturer, not for the reseller.

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There have been several similar cars with much lower mileage sold for around $20K. As a reference point I passed on a 25K mile example that had all the options you have and more for $20K...could have got it for less.

That car will sell for $15k on its best day. Your price is high.

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Very true brother!

Unfortunately, Craigslist does not appeal to the market you need to address. I'd try the classified ads - CL users are going to be much more savvy (and more inclined to use KBB.com). The mileage is the killer IMO. With as much 996 inventory as there is in CA, I wouldn't buy anything with over 100K miles...there are just too many lower-mileage examples around to justify buying a higher-mileage car. I'd post it for what you're willing to take for it to see if you can at least get some response, and refuse to haggle - if you can get someone in the seat, you'll sell the car. The aero cars are REALLY hard to walk away from (see my signature for proof...).

"Delusional" is a little strong...Highly optimistic more likely Good Luck!

thats a 12k car. 14.5k on a VERY good day

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99's are cheap, but the aero bumps up the value. Factory LSD doesn't hurt - but again, the people who understand that factory LSD is rare in a 996 are also going to be more dialed in on value than most folks...

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I do not agree two 996's with the same mileage and condition I believe the one with desirable options will command a higher price than a base model.

Some options - like heated seats and X51 - will help. 1999 sat nav, on the other hand, not so much. That said, the right options may help your car sell before another similar, less-optioned car - but I don't think the price is going to go up significantly. I don't know what options you have, but the LSD is probably the only one that's going to make a difference.

I recently purchased my 1999 for a little less than your asking although 60k miles less than your car. One with similar miles to yours was recently for sale locally for $13,500 but it was a 2001... With a replaced engine.. You would be able to sell it for $12500-13000 I would assume.

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the options are factory aero supple leather full leather boxster red interior a lot of carbon fiber bits LSD litronics 6cd changer dual power multi adjustable seats sport classic 2 wheels some of those options I assumed would command a slightly higher price than a base 996. I may be forgetting some.

Folks on this forum are typically very pessimistic as to what cars are worth, and compare pricing to benchmarks that are/were fantastic deals... How many decent $12K 996's are there out there? Very damn few, at any mileage. How many decent $16K 996's? Still pretty hard to find. Tack on another $2K if it isn't local. Just how clean is it? Dings/dents/scratches/wear? Does it look like a 2 year old car or every bit of it's 16 years? Fully documented service? No stories/leaks/outstanding work? Clean carfax? Good color? It could be a $16K car, or it could be a $not_for_any_price car depending on the above... Also, boxster red leather can be pretty polarizing... It would be a deal break for me, but those who like it tend to really like it.

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Not to be harsh, but I can't see any of these options adding value, all things considered. Maybe the aerokit and maybe the LSD. Nobody's paying extra for power seats or a CD changer.

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it is a good driver condition car. It is my daily driver. I believe it to be all original paint as well

I would not expect factory LSD with 148K miles on it doing anything. Unless it's been rebuilt. So I don't think that option is worth anything. Still the car is worth something just hard to find that buyer. I think asking $15900 and see what you can get is probably a reasonable approach.

Show us pictures. After all a man who titles his post "am I crazy" doesn't really need a response does he? Forget about options. LSD pffft any car over 20k with any track use has fried lit long time ago. More importantly for this car you need to be transparent on condition and display all records to entice an offer. Don't see any for sale with 148k. If u must sell price it accordingly and she'll sell. Honestly at 15-17k I'd keep an aero forever. No way you can replace that car 's dynamics and performance for 17+-.

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It's the miles. There are plenty of '99s with <100,000 miles for the same money. From my perspective, the 'options' that your car has are a net negative (or at best neutral).

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I agree. I think $15k is even ridiculous. I think on a phenomenal day if warren buffet wanted to buy an old high mileage 996 and didn't care what he was spending (obviously) he wouldn't even pay a dime over $13,000. Not trying to be mean but you have to come to terms with your situation.

Pictures..... Post em

^^^ at these guys prices I'll buy it and strip it for track car. Seriously, pictures?

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Please do you'll be doing us all a favor.

not until photos

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And I didn't mean that maliciously Hardback, you'd be setting a good tone for the 996 market paying that price

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4831958147.html Here is the link to what I believe is his ad. I saw this car when I was looking for mine, and was IMMEDIATELY put off by the price and mileage, not knowing about this rennlist post. (I saw this nearly 3 weeks ago)

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while waiting for the OP to reply/post, here's some: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...re-thread.html P.S. 911661 , not 100% sure but I thought you just bought the car recently?

Nice looking car eh? OP your are not delusional. You're just selling a high mileage Carrera. Forum members know the maintenance expenses. Engine rebuilds and replacements are constantly discussed. At 148K I would consider refreshing engine proactively. That's my take. Become a member, list it here, pelican, pca and I think you will find a buyer.

Good point Hardback, price is still high from my perspective, but it is a really good looking car OP. I retract my 13k comment, having seen the ad. I think it could bring 14-15k. It really is sharp. GLWS!

OP... if that is your CL ad, you have "Porsche stability management" as an option. Did they have PSM on Carreras in 1999? I know Boxsters didn't get PSM until 2001. GLWS.

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Over 100k miles and it takes a big hit in price As far as Aero kit, well that simply a matter of eye of the beholder. Personally, I don't care for them. I think it detracts from the smooth lines of the car. I like the side skirts and the front is fine, don't really care for the wing

problem is CL bakersfield isn't going to attract a wide enough customer base to hit your asking price. move the market down to socal and the audience gets bigger but the competition increases as well. as a reference point, i just picked up this 996 a few weeks ago... 99 C2 with 215k on the clock and 133k on the reman engine. pretty much bone stock with interior and exterior maybe 7/10. biggest option was a double din touch screen nav unit and 030 suspension. also came with extras like a pair of litronics and new clutch kit. 100% service records since 1999. i paid a whopping $9k. maybe i was lucky everyone got scared by the mileage, but not me. i can fix the engine if it fails, or get a new one cheap since i wreck porsches. perfect for me, but just an indication of the types of deals that are out there which you may be competing with. as others have suggested, 13-15k is the more realistic price range. at 17.5k a buyer is only 2-3k away from a 3.6 with lower miles.

Yes both of those links are correct that is my ad on Craigslist and I did post a 996 aero picture thread. I have owned the car close to a year now and am looking for another Porsche as soon as this one sells preferably a 964 or 997

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my mistake this car doesn't have psm it is just plain ol tc but it does have abd active brake differential I think it stands for

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sorry for the late response guys I was having dinner at chilis and the wait line was huge. Drove the 996 there as I drive it everywhere. I haven't owned it long close to a year now. Owned a 78 sc prior

Not a chance in a million years a 99 with 150k miles will sell for $17k or even $15k. Just FYI, your post about the WP being original and going south on you a few months back will be a massive red flag to most enthusiasts here. A quick auto trader search for 2002+ carreras yields a ton of much younger cars with lower mileage under $20k. 996 with 150k miles has almost no target market. Most CUs will not finance the car that old with so many miles. People who can spend $20k cash on the 911, will not look at super high mileage MK1. And you ad stinks. Pictures make it look like a car flippers lot, or a shade tree mechanic's place. Your ad is more suited towards Buick Century with a blown head gasket rather than a 911. Go to the Mulholland drive and take some quality exterior and interior photos to show that you are an enthusiast and you actually take pride in your car. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...71449907&Log=0 http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...71449907&Log=0

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I what the hell is your problem? My father owns a used car dealer and this picture was taken at his house that has a lot of cars that do not fit in his lot. I am an enthusiast and did not get this car from any of his dealer connections I bought it from an auto enthusiast. I see nothing wrong with my water pump lasting what it did as long as it was replaced correctly which it was. I see no reason to be so hostile we are all enthusiasts here right? Fellow enthusiast don't bad mouth others without knowing them personally.

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I know people here can be harsh but take the criticism constructively. For example using a more picturesque background for you photos won't hurt; no guarantee that they'll help but won't hurt for sure. Get a bit savvy with marketing. One salesman can sell and one can't if his life depended on it; why? (Hypothetical). Have you considered that perhaps your timing may not be great? All I'm saying is think about everything, objectively. And leave emotion out. GLWS.

I think your price is retail for an indie dealer...I doubt a Porsche dealer would want that many miles. It is a good car but it will take time to find someone who values it the way you do. It could make someone a great track car...drive the current engine until it breaks and use the time to set up other aspects of the car. And of course there is the course of least resistence, keep it and enjoy it and use it. In spite of its relatively high production numbers in time it will come back in favor and may even become a classic.

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If you don't understand why having the ad with pictures that look as "buy here pay here used car lot" looks very bad in the car ad, let me give you a free quick marketing lesson. Porsche is a toy car, and it should be sold as one. You are selling a fantasy and it should be sold as such. You sell the fantasy with phenomenal pictures that convey everything this car stands for: performance, luxury, and sex appeal. Your photos show complete lack of effort and dilapidated used car lot scene does not look attractive. Your photos immediately convey the message that you are a mechanic/dealer trying to flip the high mileage car and you put absolutely no effort into taking proper photos and making a good sale. Men buy luxury products with their eyes and your ad fails the 5 seconds view test completely! Here is just one of my drives in my 996. Compare my photos to yours, now whose photos convey everything that Porsche 911 stands for? I thought so. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mon-today.html And water pump lasting 150k shows that no-one did preventative maintenance to the car, and you selling the car so quickly afterwards can be a sign that you are trying to unload a liability; i.e. water pump pieces broke off and you are concerned with localized overheating leading to cracked head.

Uh... Kalashnikov is spot on. You have an old, high mileage car with an undesirable interior color. Unless you want to drastically lower your price you need to do everything you can to brighten up that car and that includes your photos - that is the first thing potential buyers will see and may make up their mind within seconds whether they want to move on to the next ad.

Kalish is 100% right.

I think the big question on my mind is how much life is left in that 3.4? If you bought it from an enthusiast, there must be extensive maintenance records and details about all the repairs performed over the last 146k miles. Maybe I missed it in the advert, but are there specifics about the maintenance/repairs performed? In my mind, that's huge and far more important than cosmetics. Just my two cents. I love your car. Good luck!

and 99s, notorious for intermix. People who read the boards will know this. So you almost WANT to find someone via CL who is just looking for a less expensive dream car. I paid <9k for a 99 with aero kit, full leather 178k. Had intermix that was 'repaired'.. But someone above posted the real deal: when searching for a car, most of us zip past the one that is well above asking price: could be a buy here pay here lot, someone underwater on a loan, etc etc. Stick it up for 15k OBO and youll sell it quickly. Especially if you wait til the weather warms. As far as the ad quality: if it were a 99 with 25k, I would agree, but anyone buying a car knows to contact the seller and request better pics etc. jmo

I think some of this is a little harsh. I have been combing ads for months and his is far from the worst. Since CL is free, take the advice given above and post 20 good pictures. No offense meant but, when I see a nice 911 parked with a bunch of chrome wheeled domestics, I do cringe a bit. Makes me question your definition of enthusiast. Your explanation makes perfect sense but the ad conveys something else. It is a great looking car with some unique options. The milage stops me dead in my tracks though. The sad truth is that engine is probably near the end of its life cycle. Sourcing a quality replacement is a minimum of $10k. That throws the value out of whack because, as mentioned, there are tons of cars on the market that do not have those miles, for the same money. I will also accept lower option content to get into a lower mileage example.

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if you read my previous threads about my break down you can clearly see what went wrong was the bearing in the water pump that was caught in time. No impellers were broken. You are just trying to give me and my car a bad reputation with your derogatory comments.

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No he's not. He's giving you his honest opinion... which you asked for... and you're getting all panicked because your car is worth less than what you thought it was worth. None of this is meant as an attack... we're trying to help you sell your car. You want to know what it's really worth? Throw it on ebay with no reserve and see what happens. I'd bet my house it doesn't bring $15k... especially with those pictures.

This is coming from someone currently in the market for a 996 with cash-in-hand ready to go for the right car, and I mean this with the utmost of respect for your car. I think your price is a little high based on the mileage, to estimate I would say $2800-3k. The red leather interior is actually really neat, but any car with higher mileage is always going to bring less money. I do believe there is a buyer for your car out there. Looks like a great car and a great entry level 996. Not everyone wants an 04 C4S. Some people want a car that they can tinker with. Your car looks to be in great condition and certainly a decent purchase, but any logical or shrewd buyer is going to build some sort of a cushion just based on miles alone, that it may need something in the future. You have some sweet options for an Mk1 996 and I'd play up those strong points. You'll get it sold. You should have it detailed and take 25-30 pictures. It'll show 100% better than it does right now. I wish you the best of luck with your sale.

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I am not panicked, but a false comment saying my cars water pump impellers were broken and is going to possibly kill my engine is completely false. Would you want that stigma on your vehicle if it wasn't true?

if you want to mitigate that mileage, especially without records, you definitely need to PPI it and at the very least test the compression and leak down and be transparent with potential buyers about it. mileage may not be such a huge deterrent if the engine tests ok and you can prove that. also a suggestion, lower price to 13k, pull the aero kit off and replace with stock parts and sell the aerokit separately. then you might be able to muster up an extra 2k. just a suggestion since the aero kit will fetch more marginally if its sold by itself vs with the car.

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You start a thread with intention of finding why your car is not selling; you title the thread with a self-depreciating title "Am I delusional?"; you are told why your car is not selling. Instead of taking the advice, you are pushing back. The answer to your thread's title is a conclusive YES. And clearly, sometimes you have trouble understanding people's writing as this is the second time I see you misunderstand the meaning of the post; another instance happened here . What I wrote was a conclusion that a lot of forum members could arrive at based on the sequence of the events you described in your WP thread, your "opinion" on the matter has little weight as there is a rather serious conflict of interest here. What I wrote was and you selling the car so quickly afterwards can be a sign that you are trying to unload a liability; i.e water pump pieces broke off and you are concerned with localized overheating leading to cracked head. and it is not the same as "911611's car has localized overheating as his water pump shattered".

The more I hear about this car and the sale situation, the closer it seems to be closer to the the $ not_at_any_price category... It does seem a bit odd that you post as a relative newcomer on this forum asking for advice, but don't seem receptive to any of it. Perhaps you really weren't looking for advice, but rather statements like 'Sure, that car is a steal at $16K, buyers should be lined up around the block.. Jut in case you really are interested in the wisdom of this forum, here's a summary of what you've already been told Lots of 996's for sale, somewhat of a buyers market. You need to make your car stand out. Pictures sell cars online. Your pictures are average to poor. Take better pictures. Your interior pictures are especially bad, anybody on the fence about Boxster red interiors is surely going to be pushed the wrong way. Describe in detail the interior and exterior condition of your car. "Good driver condition car" really means nothing... High mileage cars need as much reassurance documentation as possible. EXACTLY what work has been done recently? EXACTLY what previous documentation do you have? Your options don't effect value very much. Aero kit is nice for those looking for it, some like it, some don't. LSD is 100% sure to need a rebuild at your mileage. Boxster red interior is a love it or hate it color. Wheels are o.k., nothing special. Litronics is nice, but worth maybe $500 extra tops. Carbon fiber interior pieces are notorious for yellowing and cracking on 996's... are yours yellow or cracked? Describe reason for sale. Buying a high-mileage potentially-expensive-to-repair car and reselling it quickly is definitely a warning sign. Given all of the above and what has been disclosed about the car, $16K might not be 'delusional', but incredibly optimistic. Maybe a sign that your probably not serious about actually selling the car.

Lots of good advice about the pictures and ad description. I don't think you are delusional, but I agree with many others that it's probably a $15k car to the right buyer. A proper ad/photos with service history will certainly help. Tough room.

My 2 cents: set your asking price at/close to how much you paid for your car. But if you're willing to take a hit, adjust (i.e. LOWER) the price according to how much of a loss you can swallow. Best of luck.

Thank you all for the advice. No hard feelings here, I can appreciate the tough love ha

OP beyond all the opinions, which you asked for.... For sale post on this forum require's membership. Mods been quiet lately but those are the rules.

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The thing is that why would a buyer trust the seller's PPI? He could offer to pay $x for a PPI at the buyer's choice of local shop. He should first check to see what local shops are charging for PPIs and set a limit since a PPI could go as deep as a buyer wants eating up $s. Me, I'd but it on eBay with no reserve but a reasonable starting price.

Just for comparison, here is one with similar miles and priced @ $15k, and it's been available for quite a while.. '99 FS

Full factory aerokit adds at least $3,000 in value over a plain jane Carrera. Agree that car is worth $15,000 to $16,000, assuming good condition and runs strong.

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Maybe to you it does... to others it doesn't add a penny. I personally detest the aero kit so for me it's a deal breaker. The spoiler is too ricer boy fast and furious for me. Others (probably the majority of people on here) love it.

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The issue isn't whether you like the factory aerokit. A full factory aerokit adds value. Period. End of story.

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You do realize (even though a Cubby fan...sorry but that's my Cheesehead getting in the way) Porsche was one of the first to design aerodynamics into their cars right? The ricer boys just did a cheap over the top copy. The pcar aero is pure sex. I think the car is worth 15k with those miles and interior. Actually I think the interior is a problem.

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Not to everyone it doesn't. Does it sound more convincing if I say period now? Maybe that works on your kids but do you do it in the courtroom also? Lol.

No, but it didn't sound convincing the first time you said it either.

The aero kit does not instantly add any value to a car... To a certain segment of the market, yes. When you order the car from the factory, yes. But on the completely OPEN second hand market, absolutely not. Personally I find it completely repulsive, but that's just my opinion.

I just looked at 15 cars for sale in the UK. Low was $16k (after converting from British pounds) and the high was $31k. Average was just over $23k. The 996s for sale in the current issue of Panorama reflect much the same. I realize that the milage on 911661's car is high by overall market conventions but we aren't talking about a Yugo here...the 996 is a well built sophisticated machine with modern technology that makes the engines much more durable than cars of the past. If a guy can drive a 356C as his daily driver for almost a million miles and only rebuild the motor every 300,000...certainly our cars (if serviced regularly) can match that durability. Back in the early 90s I bought a 1980 Ferrari 308 GTSi for $27000....it had 88,000 on the odometer. It was my daily driver and I sold it 3 years later, with 124,000 on the clock for $25000...just two thousand less than I paid for it. The car was running great, didn't leak oil, didn't smoke, the body was tight, the upholstery was original and looked outstanding, etc. etc. In a parking lot last week the driver of a brand new 991 admired my car and couldn't believe it was now 12 years old. A low milage can be an abused wreck and a high milage car can be a concours candidate. An educated buyer who wants a top quality car will pay top dollar. People who can't afford a top quality car will look for something less that fits their budget. Even with a 175000 miles the owner of aa well cared for and maintained 996 should be comfortable asking $23000. However we create self fulfilling prophacies we talk down our own cars.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

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If you are shopping for an aero, you are likely to pay a couple grand more for one of two otherwise identical cars. "Value" is in the eye of the purchaser, but In the long run a factory aero will hold value better than a nonaero IMHO. It is a matter of personal taste, and if you want a higher performing stock car on the track. Some people think cabs are worth more, I think they are worth much less because i just don't like them.

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I don't believe it can. Now, I'm not a 996 basher. [I used to own a 40th anniversary model (#590) and have been actively looking for a 996.] However, the 996 has way too many plastics, electronics, etc. to realistically last 50 years. The argument could be made that the million mile 356 is no longer the original car ( think the Ship of Theseus). But, the systems are simple and rather inexpensive to rebuild, replace, or even remanufacture. What will you do 50 years from now when the 996 airbags are gone, the ABS electronics are gone, the engine computers are fried, the dashboard is cracked beyond recognition, etc.? Sure, there will be some survivors. But, Many will never make it that long no matter how much care is given. The cars are just too complex to see that high a level of survivorship

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Not in the USA John.

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So much wrong with this... Yes, I think anybody shopping these cars will concur. How many of those were 150k + mile cars? Where in the price range did the high mileage cars fall? What was your point? That a 150k mile 996 is now the average? I doubt you could back that claim up. I know you have been reading the same failure data as I have. Where in all that research did you come to the conclusion that the majority of M96 motors are good for 300k with just regular maintenance? At NO point during my research did I come to that conclusion, talk about delusional... It was a Ferrari... a low production Italian sports car with stunning good looks. There is a big difference between that and the mass produced 996. Some people have a tolerance for miles, some prefer to put them on themselves. Are you trying to tell us that the 308 you bought wasn't discounted for the miles? Did you pay average market for it per your example above? Now the seller has a top quality high mileage car and should be asking more? THAT is your conclusion? The reason he can't is because owners fabricate engine failures, yet you yourself acknowledge the problem by spending money on a warranty.... Always interesting to read your posts!

As someone who recently bought a 996 on a basic budget, the market dictated the value. Right now all over the U.S. the "high" mile cars 100k + are struggling to pull 17k when there are low mile examples in the same range. BUT if all 996 owners banded together and decided to charge 20k for high mile cars and $27k for low mile examples he would have no problem getting 17k-20k.. Let's help a brother out....

very unusual comments to say the least. High mileage porsches on the original engine need $$ to maintain, bring up to proper condition, or whatever. Suspension, interior, transmission, seals....the list goes on and on. As someone who buys and sells a lot of cars, I spend a ridiculous amount of money on theses things. So price has nothing to do with anything else. A 90k mile engine is worth a lot more than a 180k engine. A lot more. Cause a 180k mile engine needs a lot done to it. So a 90k 99 cab is worth 15-17.k tops. a high mileage is worth a lot less. But who cares what we all write here. Lets see what the car actually sells for.

I bought my 99' Coupe with 67k miiles for $15k last year. Your market will dictate your price, but I feel you are a bit optimistic. Aero Kit only means something to People on the forums or Porsche Technophiles. Good luck.. Ken

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That is the correct answer we dictate the value of this cars and actually very low miles 996 (15000 or less) can go for $40000 and up. This is basically what I can see on the Market. (Please be advice we're talking about no more than 4 owners, no accidents, no rebuilt titles and all maintenance records, all keys and books, condition very good to excellent, remember, models likes the 4S will cost more). 911 Carrera and Carrera S and 4S (99-04) less than 20000 original miles up to $55000 911 Carrera and Carrera S and 4S (99-04) less than 50000 original miles up to $45000 911 Carrera and Carrera S and 4S (99-04) less than 75000 original miles up to $35000 911 Carrera and Carrera S and 4S (99-04) less than 100000 original miles up to $25000 911 Carrera and Carrera S and 4S (99-04) less than 150000 original miles up to $15000 Let me tease you with this low miles example : http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...76012005&Log=0 No two used cars are alike. Therefore, no two prices are alike. Because auto and truck prices vary by region, you'll also want to consult local newspaper ads and online ads listed by sellers in your area. Online classified sites include AutoTrader.com, Autoweb.com, Cars.com and StoneAge.com. As for the condition of the car, you'll pay more for a low-mileage. The same model with high-mileage, dings and scratches on its exterior and stains on its would cost you quite a bit less.

^^^interesting info but in 99-04 there was not an S only a 4S.

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Where are these 99-04 Carrera S cars? I have seen a 4S but never a Carrera S.

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Go to eBay and look at recent sold auctions, they tell a different story. Asking price does not equal value/selling price

Yes, some of the prices being asked are clearly delusional. I'd sell my '99 C4 with 65k miles (20k miles on factory replacement engine) for somewhere in the $15-20k range.

My points for sellers are: 1. Informed enthusiasts will pay for quality. Age old saying in the Ferrari club..."Buy cheap and pay twice." I think it is true of Porsches as well. 996s in general are undervalued. The biggest price negative is the hyper-fear of the IMS. 2. The biggest mechanical issues in a high milage example are not the robust engine but rather the normal wear and tear items...window regulators, electrical switches, ball joints and bushings, hoses and belts, etc. A well maintained car with well kept service records will inspire confidence and higher dollars. 3. The 996 is a better car mechanically and in terms of performance than the 993 and 964. Their prices are inflated, the 996s are deflated. Production numbers are of secondary issue. Price your 996 based on its advantages and on the condition you have kept it in. 4. People on a low budget will look for price bargains because they are unwilling or unable to pay more to get more. Read point 1. 5. Which would you rather pay $25000 for, with both cars having full service records and having been maintained by the book...a low miles Honda or a 85000 mile 996? 6. The low ball 996s can represent good buys for the DIY enthusiasts...but rarely for buyers who will be paying to have others do the work.

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Thanks I edit it. When the engine is replace the value decrease tremendously, I had a 2002 E46, engine die with 16000 miles on it. BMW replace the engine for free, I have to sell the car 4000 below average, I couldn't understand why people prefer to pay more for an engine with more miles than mine, the car was running strong at just 35000 miles on the new engine but of course odometer showed 51000 miles. Same happened to my dad, on his Nissan Altima, engine was replaced at 80000 miles by the dealer. He paid labor and Nissan paid for the engine, most of the depreciation was done in that car already but no one offer to pay more because the engine was new. Your point is right, and also the target population is different, if you want a second car, reliable under 20000, cheap on maintenance you can get a used Miata, if you find a Porsche 911 for less than 15000, you already know you are willing to put $5000 or more to keep it running or major work would be need it eventually.

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You are absolutely correct. People can ask $1,000,000 for a 996 if they want, but look at what the final number was for the sale. When a 2003 C4S with any miles sells for $55,000 I'll s*** a brick.

Manheim is a car auction company for the auto trade. I pulled recent actual transaction data for 1999 911 C2 coupes (see below) The selling price ranges from $7,500 at the low end to $17,000 at the high end, with the average being $12,250. Similarly, mileage ranges from 49,483 at the low end to 146,102 at the high end, with the average being 92,888. There's no discussion to be had about these numbers: this is what those actual vehicles sold for in the trade. A dealer will list one of these cars for sale around $6k higher than what they paid to take into account auction closing costs, transportation, reconditioning and of course their margin. Based on Manheim's data, I plugged in a mileage of 140,000 to get an estimate, which you can see below: Note that accessories like aero kits, etc. do not affect the value much so the wrong thing to do would be to say that the aero kit is $3k and then add $3k to the asking price. So to the original poster, who is not a dealer, yes you are delusional. I can't believe this thread is six pages long. Can we please move on now?

Sorry to be blunt but I'm sure you want honest opinions. As others have stated, your mileage places your 996 into the wholesale/auction category. That mileage is NOT the norm for a specialty sports car. You will be lucky to see $12,000 for it. Hope we are wrong.

I am looking for somebody willing to purchase at 15-16 range, if I don't get that it is just best for me to drive the wheels of this thing and make it last as long as possible. May I be "delusional" maybe but I also think the air cooled market has delusional prices and people buy them all the time.

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Manheim is the gold standard for used car pricing, but it represents as-is, where-is, wholesale pricing , not private party retail pricing. It's what you could expect to get from a dealer who has no interest in the car but plans on dumping it at auction. The dealers who buy the cars at auction will put a quick detail on them and ask $2k-$5K more than that on their lots.

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Exactly. The dealer retail will be up to $6k more than the Manheim auction price. I would expect a private party to retail for less than a dealer.

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Look mate, you asked and we all provided feedback and in some cases hard data. The air cooled market is a different beast because that technology is not made anymore, and to some, the only "real 911" is an air-cooled one. Not sure why you're quoting delusional - you're the one that put it in the title.

not only are you delusional, you are the typical porsche owner who thinks their sh_t doesn't stink. your high mileage, red interior car(not many people care for red interior in a late model porsche including me)will sell for $12,500 if your lucky. stop the whining and make believe you live here on earth with the rest of us

ooops, guess i misspoke. found a buyer for your 150k mileage 996 at $17,500

While KBB has been completely off the mark for 996 values, that's where 99% of Craigslist buyers are going to go to get a baseline price for what they ought to be paying. Again, KBB prices for the 996 have been LAUGHABLY off for the past couple of years, so I'm not saying they're accurate, BUT...consider the following two prices. The cars were identical ('99 996 manual w/ aero) except for the mileage: A '99 Aero 996 with 150,000 miles KBB private-party value: $7800 A '99 Aero 996 with 50,000 miles KBB private-party value: $13,900 I don't think you're factoring in the extent to which mileage is going to be a major factor. Even with the Rennlist lunacy about how low-mileage cars are evil, 150K is a lot of miles for ANY car. I agree that aero adds value (even though, as noted repeatedly, not EVERYONE digs aero), but the elephant in the room is mileage. The condition of the interior is going to be the second potential issue - red interiors just don't hide age as well as black. If the interior is pristine, that's going to help a LOT. If, on the other hand, the interior has aged like most 15-year-old red interiors do, you now have several different shades of pinkish-red, and it's probably now a check in the "minus" category instead of the "plus."

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you sure that's not you old man? It looks like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or maybe it is low testosterone hmmm sad. Anyways I have never said anything against the actual air cooled cars in fact I love them I owned a 78sc prior and at times do regret selling it. All I am saying is the air cooled market is a little crazy right now just like my price according to you and others here. But people still buy air cooled cars for 30 grand that were only 15 a couple years ago.

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by the way if that really isn't you in the picture since it appears that he actually shaves, using that picture with any intent of humor is pretty pathetic on your part.

besides being delusional, you sound really ignorant i'd much rather be old than stupid like you

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think you pooped your pants - go call mommy

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Obviously I'm biased, but the other thing the aero kit does is set the car apart from the vast majority of 996's. I understand that some people think the aero kit is a little too fast-and-furious - but it's also a HUGE differentiator. There are PLENTY of people (like me) who think that aerokit cars are amazing looking and are willing to pay a higher price. A standard 996 is a nice car. My 996 looks like something I would have had a poster of on my wall as a kid - and I know I'm not the only one...

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do me a favor and don't post on my thread just like I haven't posted on your for sale thread which is actually against forum rules. I never intended my thread as a way to sell my car like you have. Your posts actually sound more immature than mine in all honesty and you are my elder by a couple decades, yet haven't learned much in terms of manners.

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guilty I willingly paid a premium price for mine because it had a full aero (a must-have for me)...though by Techart and not OEM. OP, good luck selling your car.

Holy $%^&! WTF happened to this thread? Wrong, bruh. His for sale thread is OK. "Members" can post for sale. "Users" cannot. But, seriously, your 996 no matter how nice, will be hard to sell with that mileage at that price. If your dad is really a dealer, ask him what the ACV is. Maybe that will help you.

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I was not aware that members can post a for sale thread in a discussion thread, I will own up to that but the rest was well deserved. I'm not sure how things escalated so quickly, but you're no stranger to that krazyk my father deals in salvage vehicles from insurance auctions whole different ball game. Seeing first hand how bad some cars are wrecked and put back together puts me off.

So, to sum up this thread so far: 1. The general consensus is that your car is worth about $15,000 if you ignore the extremist opinions that peg the value of a 996 as low as $7,000 or as high as $50,000. You would like to get between $15,000 and $16,000 for it. 2. High mileage cars are worth less than low mileage cars and take longer to sell. 3. The red interior isn't doing you any favors. 4. Better pics in your ad would help. 5. Manheim Market Report is now the #1 authority in setting prices for 16 year old Porsches. I'll alert the guys over at Manheim that their data from a grand total of six 996 sales nationwide has set the Porsche world on its ear. 6. People who don't like aerokit cars think aerokits aren't worth a dime and should probably be destroyed due to their flashiness (no offense to the Porsche design staff). 7. People who do like aerokit cars are willing to pay a premium for them. 8. Groov and 911661 don't like each other. Did I miss anything? Oh, and a little levity for having hung in until the end of this thread:

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Once you start to add up what it would cost to aerokit a non-aero 996, paying a few K more for a car that's already equipped makes a whole lot of financial sense. The parts alone can easily hit $10K, and then you have to get them fitted and painted.

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Well, you left out the part about John Ireland working out some unicorn pricing guidelines, but otherwise, I think you're spot on. KrazyK using "bruh" in a sentence is probably also noteworthy, but I'm not entirely sure why.

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Oh, stop it. You should know by now that an aerokit on a 996 is just an embarrassment.

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The Hooters girl on the left looks like a Klingon - and she's still hotter than the protester...

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Yes, I'm ashamed, but that's a different thread.

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yes - you left out the part where 911661 pooped his pants and should let his mommy and daddy know asap

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Well, John thinks at a much deeper level than the rest of us, so I'm sure there's validity in his conclusions. As for KK, I think that means he's Hawaiian.

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things escalated because you have absolutely no sense of humor and sound like a punk who is ignorant about the porsche market which is troubling since your dad is in the car business?? something smells fishy?? but is not nearly as smelly as your poopy pants

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"You keep using that expression. I do not think it is as funny as you think it is." -Inigo Montoya (sorta)

^ My paralegal would like to know why I was laughing my *** off in my office just now.

Didn't read the whole thread because it seemed to derail somewhere in there. But my car has around 149k miles right now. Given what I read at the start of this thread it probably isn't worth much because of that. I know at one point I was looking to trade it in on a 996 turbo and got an offer of $12k for it. That told me right there to not have high hopes if I ever decide to sell. But in the mean time I have a 911 that has provided me with loads of fun and and either a rebuild project or track car conversion when the time comes to move on to the next phase of ownership. For the OP, if you're still around I think some others said it best - market that car properly and you'll get it sold. Maybe not at the original price but it is a pretty car so someone is bound to be interested in it.

Nothing to add.....I just love this place!

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yeah be sure to send those poopy pants of mine you found on the side of your wife's bed back to me. See I have a sense of humor just like you. Ha ha ha. And that fishy smell you were referring to most likely is coming from that bedroom as well.

LOL. Jose (aka delusional-poopy-pants) vs William (aka Seahawks FTW-IamOnTheBoat-mullet-change-cars-a-lot). 22 Jump Street Official Movie Clip - Undercover (2014) Channing Tatum, Jonah Hill HD - YouTube

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this "user" is a "looser" adolph my pet fish is now upset and agrees:

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gee i nailed it on the head - again narrow body 996's with 125-150K miles sell all day long between $11,500-$13,500 - red interior is a minus as well as green or meridian metallic exterior colors.

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oh I put poppy instead of poopy my mistake. But at least I can pop one and poop one hemroids and low testosterone must really suck. You and Adolph take it easy now.

No, YOU are! *facepalm* Girls, settle down.

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b b b Bu but he started it haha calling me a girl now? You want to start something as well? Joking

Note the aero kit...

i guess a simple post of "yes" after the OP by the young boy would have prevented us having to school him. i always look forward to exposing what "loosers" the "users" are. why don't you pony up for a membership so we can have some real fun in the OT forum - oh wait, you have to be at least out of your diapers. sorry maybe in a few years

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are you sure you're still going to be alive in a couple years?

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You're not getting it. The air cooled cars are worth those prices because the market sets that price. People want them and get in line to pay top dollar. It isn't delusional. Last time I checked there is not a line of people looking to pay $17,000 for your car so the market doesn't agree with your outlandish price, thus making yours delusional.

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No that wasn't John! It was some guy w/ a cab MK2 who thinks that this particular car (and all 996's) should be the cover catalog car for Gooding & Co's pebble beach auction!

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LMFAO

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Understeer on a train sucks, it seems...

,,OK,, We should all just calm down a little. As much as I have pissed people off around here, I don't think anyone has ever insulted my wife. Its OK to bash each other some but we should really leave wives out of it. Not cool IMO, bruh. I like to use the word bruh. On the bright side about your 996. It looks like a clean, straight, areo MKI, which some people really like, including me. If you cant stomach taking $12,000 for it, maybe keep it and have fun, track, etc. No one here is BS'ing you about the low pricing. As most have posted, the mileage is a killer. The interior doesn't help. Personally, I think I would keep it. And,,,,this threads becoming epic. Cant believe no b00bies posted yet!

wow, I though I was in the PC forum. I think the OP should close it. Oh my.

TL;DR- Summary: Do these jeans make me look fat? Maybe a little... You're an a$$hole.

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Why would we insult someone for whom we have so much sympathy?

Ok, there is only one way to settle this. Heads up drag race. Best 2 out of 3. Loser walks home. Location: Infineon Raceway (midway between Seattle and So-Cal). Jose vs William. Jose wants to sell his car, William wants to sell his car...this is a perfect way to settle this. Both cars are manual; Jose got C2, Will got C4S. Man up gents and duke this out.

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lets go c4s's are pigs and my aero package well easily slice through the air and win the race haha in all seriousness he already posted he is no longer selling his car. So does that mean I win? Haha

race sounds fun - if i win, the kid can help scoop up my roids from all the excitement. if he wins, i'll work on his dad's car lot until his car sells at $17,500 - i'll just tell my 14 year old daughter that i'll be back home when she has grandchildren

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why are you stuck at that 17,500 price tag, I made it clear I would take less than that. I am sure out of all the cars you have owned most did not sell for the asking price. btw nothing wrong with a silver with red interior car. It is a classic combination. and lets not go bringing up your daughter it isn't wise bringing up your family in our conversations.

why don't you find a sense of humor in the meantime for further schooling, red interior looks very correct for a vintage porsche like a 356 or early 911 because the red was more of a wine color - the later red interiors are too lipstick looking so they are not as desirable. again this is a matter of taste and most porsche buyers taste don't include red interiors or green/meridian metallic exterior colors. i'm the first person to not give a sh_t what someone thinks of my personal taste in color or music BUT it's a fact that red interiors are not as desirable therefore hurts resale on some later model porsches. secondly, i have never i repeat never have lowered my asking price on any of the 30 or so 356/911's i have sold in my 35 years of ownership. i buy them right and know the market unlike many new members on this forum. as i've explained many times i love porsches and enjoy driving many different 911 models. my 59 356A super sunroof i will never sell as well as my 66 911 - both enjoying the florida sunshine. i am guilty of "flipping" 356's 25 years ago and ebaying parts galore - it was a hell of a lot of fun and i was always fair with any buyers. my photography studio was in san francisco and the cars were dirt cheap. i listed my C4S this week well below the $31K i could get for it because when i want to sell a car i want it to leave my driveway and have the buyer happy - i don't screw around with wasting time - just the way i do business. i did sell one of my 993's to a whiney rennlist freak of a guy 9 years ago - he didn't bother to read the service records or listen to me explain that the car had been repainted on the nose - it was described in the description but some people are inept. the car was still priced extremely fair and he was just a dick who complained publicly on the 993 forum. fortunately there were 2 guys who looked at it and drove it who were rennlist members and backed me up publicly. picture below: prior to my C4S purchase i sold my 2001 996 silver/black to a local attorney thru rennlist - it had 140K miles - he paid $15,000 - it was a one owner/full service records 996 and had new IMS/AOS/clutch and i sold that car a year ago before the 996 prices took another dive. i wouldn't expect more than $14K for that car in todays market "experience in the marketplace dictates knowledge of the marketplace when buying or selling porsches." - ferdinand porsche 2015

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so I assume you're a qualified teacher as well as SO many things I have discovered. Always referring to schooling me as if you were some Porsche legend

Considering the cost to replace one of our engines wouldn't this car almost be worth more parted out?

This thread confirms that Porsche owners are hard headed and obviously always right. Mark my words, this thread will likely never die.

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If a potential buyer doesn't understand why a factory 996 replacement thing is a GOOD thing, they will by the time I'm done talking to them, or they'll run away as fast as they can from 996 ownership.

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Whaaat??? I thought the protester was a man!!!!!! Well I guess is time for!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm confused. Is this a pricing thread, an aero kit thread or did I somehow teleport back to kindergarten?

Preschool

i was thinking nursery

.........womb

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zygote

egg and sperm

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ejaculation/orgasm

1st date

Big Bang

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Slightly off sequence. This is usually, but not always, after the third date. (sigh) I guess I could not help but get dragged into this cesspool after all... Fairly priced cars sell. I've always taken that approach. Have not had to drop off much if at all from the cars I've sold. Often bought by the first person to come see them. I do make a _real_ effort to provide a comprehensive advert for a buyer to use to get comfortable. Example: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...rs-engine.html Overpriced cars sit. The market rules. That is all.

this one just sold 1/10/15 99 C4 88k miles, service records, factory Aero kit $15,701 Factor in your mileage and you are sniffing glue if you think you can get even $15k for yours http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks

there was another rennlist post - 1999 996 c2 w/85K miles silver/black sold for $16,000 they can only bottom out so much - probably have hit rock bottom considering they are close to parting out prices. 996 is a great driving car - tremendous value for what you are buying as long as PPI/IMS done. those aircooled grandpa's don't know what their missing (993 grandpa's excluded )

Cars similar to your car Jose, in local AZ market. See the prices as a reference point. http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/4840239510.html http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/4825779705.html http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/4811636886.html

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Naahhh...I've had a 993C4S, a 40th Anniversary (with the X51) and a 997. All were great cars. For cruising around and tinkering I much prefer my air cooled cars. Why am I on the 996 forums? Because I would like to get another 996. For the money they just cant be beat!

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2 of them are for sale in the range I would let mine go for.

i like this ad - maybe one of you guys in the bay area are as lonely as he is and want to give him a ride? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4837342707.html

Ok just a little bit creepy. I will pass.

At first thought I felt bad, because maybe he's a special needs person. Then I got reminded of the cable guy movie. That's a creepy *** ad.

This is one of the worst veiled FS threads ever.

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Let me guess... you would sell yours for the same as the two 80k mile cars. The point was, yours falls into the other category, the $12k high mileage category. All this banter and you still do not get it....

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Bay Area huh? I wonder what kind of ride he is looking for.

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Morgan Hill is not San Francisco. It's south of San Jose near Gilroy

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@rich8, "Not everyone wants an 04 C4S!" I'm offended and resemble that statement......hahahahahahahaha I spend 6 months looking for my 04 C4S. I absolutely love everything about it, get compliments all the time, and never plan to part with it, I do my own maintenance and tinker with it obsessively, to the point that my wife will come in the garage and I am out there watching Autobahn videos on you tube with my car, lol. I just thought it was funny that I found your quote in this thread. All of you all are giving the OP the best advice. Proud to be a part of this group and you are in the right place to learn as much as you can about these great cars before you purchase. GLWYS, Cheers! Bernard

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That is exactly what I thought to myself when I read his comment...... "Two are in the range I want" yea the two with half of the mileage yours has! Lmao

Your price is a bit high asking, but I'd imagine you'd get offers of $15,000 - which is probably fair for that car (at least in my area)

Delusional about price? Perhaps its more like;