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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWhat Should I Expect from a PPI?
Leading reported evidence
Check age/send sample out
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Leading evidence: 'Check age/send sample out' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'waste of $200' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check (water content,, tells me how much the po cares' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
For example, when I dropped my cover, I found ONE roller but when FSI repaired my engine, there were TWO rollers missing.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
For some reason, I assumed that you ran a racing shop .
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
This is the kind of stuff that can happen when you buy ANY used car.
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Suggestion
Quick advice - a "PPI" most places is your typical "100 Point Inspection" and anything else you want done that is invasive in nature (compression check, leakdown test, pan inspection, bore inspection, etc.) is going to be billed to you at the mechanic's hourly rate.
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Suggestion
And of course, do your own thorough inspection for leaks, underbody damage, and drive the car through the gears (do a downhill decel in 2nd and check for pop out - less common with the NA cars) and visit red line along the way.
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38 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261027T020439Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Greetings!
Long time lurker first time posting. I’m currently in a slow burn over the next 3 to 6 months to purchase either a 996 Turbo (s) or 996.2 to 997.2 C2/4S. This will be my first Porsche. I plan on doing a lot of the work myself. Having wrenched on my Harleys for some time I’m fairly comfortable with doing most work. One of my primary goals is to avoid the IMS and bore scoring issues in some models. My question is what can/should I expect from a ‘normal’ PPI?
1. Should I expect that the tech will drop the pan and inspect?
2. Should I expect the tech to bore scope the cylinders?
3. Assuming I’ll pay for a new oil filter, would inspecting the current filter be too much to ask?
Is this considered too invasive or will most owners reject this? If I was an owner I would not object assuming it was done by a bonded certified tech …. I tried crafting a search for this and didn’t really come up with anything useful. Advice?
One more question, how can an AOS vs Bore Scoring (smoke after a start) be discerned?
Thanks, Mark!
Unless you specify exactly what you want the PPI to cover, chances are, they will just look over the car like any inspection. Most PPIs will not cover a bore scope inspection top and bottom.
The filter check is an easy one and not too much to ask.
The best way to determine bore scoring is follow the Jake Raby procedure - top and bottom.
I wouldn�t worry too much about AOS. The vacuum test is an easy check, and if the tailpipes aren�t covered in oil and if the engine isn�t smoking, these AOS devices don�t generally fail without all or nothing symptoms.
It’s around 400-500 bucks for a thorough ppi on any of the cars you listed besides the metzger. I am not sure what’s involved with that. You should wait and find the right car. Ppi’ s are very in depth for these cars because of all of the known issues. The difference between a regular ppi and a 996 specific one would be
oil sump removal and scope cylinders
dme report
cut open oil filter
which should easily add 2-300 bucks onto a standard ppi.
My PPI was around $300 and included cutting the filter open. A good, independent Porsche shop should be able to check over everything you need. They should check the overall condition, cosmetic faults, suspension condition and mechanical condition. They can check the computer for over revs which are stored on it. Metal in the filter can indicate bore scoring or IMS issues.
A dealer PPI is about $450 complete with incompetent work, and suggested repairs so they can make more money. They do not do compression test, or leak down test, or scoping, or dropping the pan, or cutting the filter open unless it is double that amount.
A competent independent PPI can do anything you ask, as long as you pay for it.
Obviously, don't take it to a dealer.
Agree with the previous posts about a PPI: you need to specify what you want done and it needs to be done by someone who knows what they are looking for.
However, I don't place much value on a PPI as they won't likely catch the issues that plague these cars the most (996 NA cars): IMSb, failed water pumps, incorrect oil selection or long change intervals. Instead, I recommend finding a sub 50k car that has been owned by a loving owner who knows how to treat the cars and keeps records of what has been done. Cars loved on the outside are frequently loved on the inside. An OCD owner (definitely more common in the Pcar crowd) change their oil every year or 5000 miles, change the water pump before it fails (no PPI will find missing vanes in the water passages), the IMSb should have been done using the LNE bearing before it failed (no PPI can inspect an IMSb). Lifetime coolant? You've got to be kidding?! Get yourself a Foxwell scanner with the Porsche software and plug it in - check the camshaft deviation (should be sub 6 deg) and presence of codes. And of course, do your own thorough inspection for leaks, underbody damage, and drive the car through the gears (do a downhill decel in 2nd and check for pop out - less common with the NA cars) and visit red line along the way. Assuming you know which end of the car has the engine and assuming you have reasonable mechanical skills, you should be able to get a very good sense of the car's condition. Things like the AOS, coolant tank, and window regulators are fairly common and inexpensive repairs that can be done on your own, and are secondary to a neglected motor.
My advice, spend your time reading up on RL what to look for and buy yourself a proper scan tool rather than doing the same at a PPI. Interview the owner as much as the car and be selective - there are a lot of 996s (in whatever configuration you like) to choose from. Always run a carfax.
When I bought my 996 eight years ago the Indy I wanted to use was backed up for weeks, so on advice from a friend I had the dealer do one. (This was a private sale.). Knowing what I know now it was probably a waste of $200. I got an almost perfect report but they really didn't look too deep.
I'm all for a PPI, but as others have noted, be sure to ask them specifically what they're going to do, or not do.
Interviewing the owner as well? Great Idea!
Which Foxwell Scanner?
http://www.foxwelltool.com/wholesale...BoChqwQAvD_BwE
Yup, all of those things are on my pre PPI inspection list that I will do before handing it over to a 'pro'.
Thanks!
Mark
That would eliminate the IMSb/RMS and bore scoring issues . . . but opens some (relatively minor) issues with the timing chains and cooling conduit - correct? They all have their own issues, from what I can tell. But yes, the turbo is top on my list . . . but a good carrera s (2 or 4) would work just fine for me as well . . .
Mark!
Tue turbo has fewer possible failure scenarios and probably costs about the same to maintain. And it will hold it�s value the same. The difference is about $20k, but you get a much more powerful car. I would test drive both and see which one you prefer. Besides the power, they handle differently. If you like the way the turbo handles, and you can afford it, I would go the turbo route.
I purchased my 2003 996.2 about 6 years ago.
$275.00
The PPI was done at the Porsche dealership that did all of the service since new.
I guess, pros and cons to this.
But spoke a few times with Service Manager and the assigned Tech who had serviced the car since new.
Cut oil filters everytime.
They did indicate Driver's seat heat element and lighter not working. Both were repaired.
The previous owner had just done a service of Oil and Brake flush and new wipers before he decided to purchase a new Turbo Cab at the age of 74.
Be cautious of a 996 that has too low of miles, garage queens seem to have a higher probability of IMS issues from what this forum has stated for many years
Good luck, BE PICKY
There are a few good ones out there, and the selling prices match.
Having purchased 15 months ago and had my share of post-purchase issues, I would insist on the following 996 specific additions to a PPI:
* drop the sump cover and look for debris that shouldn't be there (such as say a timing chain roller) <-- this is what bit me
* while the sump cover is off use a bore scope to check for bore scoring from the crank side of the piston <-- this one did not bite me
DO NOT assume that an engine that has bore scoring will be "ticking" or have sooty tail pipes. It might be early in the process and not be showing those symptoms.
Also keep in mind that you may not be the first person to drop the sump cover, so someone else may have previously removed all of the debris. For example, when I dropped my cover, I found ONE roller but when FSI repaired my engine, there were TWO rollers missing. This means some unscrupulous dirtbag took the other one out at some point... This is the kind of stuff that can happen when you buy ANY used car.
I've been watching some of his videos, very knowledgeable to say the least. Racing/Autocross doesn't really interest me, but if that changed I'd probably head his direction . . .
Mark!
We stopped building �racing engines� years ago. I did build one in 2019, but the guy had to beg me to do it!
Most of what we build are dual purpose, daily driver engines that can be effectively taken to the track.
From a PPI perspective, it simply must be done, and done by someone that doesn�t assume the engine is good, just because it �runs fine�.
I have had a ton of requests for a PPI video for both 996, and 997. I believe this will be my next video released, now that I have finished the M9X engine rebuild video series. It won�t be free, but it will be valuable to purchasers that don�t want to get ripped off, and have their �Dream car� turn into a nightmare.
Thanks for the info - your bore scoring and etc series are great info. I'm learning tons, for sure. For some reason, I assumed that you ran a racing shop . . . not sure why. Will you be creating a 996/997 (Metzger?) Turbo Series as well?
Thanks Again . . . Still Learning . . .
Mark!
Thanks, but since this will be my first Porsche I�d like to get some experience working on them first. I�d like the simplest entry into ownership as possible.
Mark
If I get/do a PPI,, I do:
1. Leakdown
2. Scope the bores from the plug side.
3. Scope the bores from the bottom, drop the pan.
4. Antifreeze checked for age/send sample out.
5. Brake fluid check (Water content,, tells me how much the PO cares.. )
6. Hose down car to check for water leaks.
7. Trans fluid sample to lab.
Assumptions if I buy:
1. If I don't have records ,, the car gets a 100% fluid change.. Budget about 2K.
` - Brake fluid, Coolant, Engine Oil, Trans Oil, Front diff if its AWD.
2. New plugs
3. Air filter
4. Water Pump.
5. Cooling system cap.
6. Top and bottom detail so I can get chips etc touched up and the whole underside cleaned and the undercoating/rust block updated as needed.
I haven't seen this mentioned - Turbos can have a little puff of smoke on a cold start with no ill effect. Don't let it freak out if you look at one.
Quick advice - a "PPI" most places is your typical "100 Point Inspection" and anything else you want done that is invasive in nature (compression check, leakdown test, pan inspection, bore inspection, etc.) is going to be billed to you at the mechanic's hourly rate. Obviously if they drop the pan they are dropping oil and you will be charged for materials too.
Just pointing this out because I walked away from one car with a $350 inspection that only included compression. Adding a lot of work could make for a costly inspection.
Best of luck Mark!
OOPS yes your right,, the 2K was my "post purchase" budget,, for a basically end to end service,, new plugs,, Factory coolant tank, plus one of the hoses to the water pump, new Magnetic drain plug, Full flush of the brake system, new plug heat shields(Mine had rusted at the mount), oil testing for engine and transmission (They handled shipping it off and didn't up charge for it.. ) air filter, cabin air filter (It was kinda ugly) Testing the AOS ,,,
I forget the rest of the list I had them do a bunch of small items that were making sure the car was all caught up, which did clock the bill up ..
At the time I was jammed up at work and the car was a Present for my Wife,,, so I paid to get it all done where normally I would have handled it myself.
I think I was about a grand actual cost at the end of the day.. I shoulda been more specific as to what "might" need done on a purchase..
My 2Cents,
By now most 996s have accumulated 50-75K+ miles, and deserve a thorough Pre-purchase inspection by a skilled Porsche tech. That means performing items 1, 2, and 3, plus splitting the filter and getting an oil analysis. These steps will elongate the purchase cycle but may save the purchaser much grief and money later.
relinuca
I agree with above.
It will take a little time.
I maybe selling my car this year, and I would welcome a thorough PPI.
Heck, when we get our PCA Tech inspections done for an event, many steps of that are part of a PPI.
BUT, if my oil sump is coming off as part of the PPI, it is going to be done at a P-Dealership or a Race / Indy shop with a long history of Porsche experience.
It�s important to point out that the while the buyer pays for the PPI, they are not required to share those results with the seller. The mechanic also should not share the results unless the buyer approves that.
I would approach any buyer of my car, if I were to sell it, with the hope that they would share a copy of the report with me. I would even kick in some $$$ for that or give a credit back if they decided not to buy the car.
That is why I would think a Carfax and PPI done by a Dealership or creditable Porsche Race / Indy Shop before listing a car for sale, might be a good idea
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