53 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHJust completed 996 DIY Rebuild!
Leading reported evidence
Replace fluid
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed the oil and coolant but it remixed right away, although some of this was probably remenants that did not drain when I changed the fluid.
Leading evidence: 'Replace fluid' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean here, is' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Replace fluids and parked the car until the next spring
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed the fluids and parked the car until the next spring.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed the oil and coolant but it remixed right away, although some of this was probably remenants that did not drain when I changed the fluid.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If such knowledge is no longer shared the M96 becomes even more expensive and difficult to repair.Ultimately that erodes the value of the cars, the parts support and Forum participation.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
53 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T183130Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Started the project on 2/15 because of an intermix. 459 documented steps later, today I drove it to MVD to register it again! What an awesome feeling to have done it all myself. Thanks to many posts (old and new) from this and other forums - Dharn55, Loren, Macster, and too many others to mention.
Thanks. Don't know how to post the file(s) yet for easier read. Statistics are as follows:
1 Excel file documenting...
459 steps from beginning to end, with reference links to WSM page/step and cross reference to DIY
articles from pelican parts and others as well
43 tools and supplies purchased
75 distinct part numbers purchased with PET page reference
79 items for reference materials from forums, blogs, you tube etc.
49 information articles - archived copies of tech articles from pelican and other places
703 picture journal of before and after pictures
39 WSM-type files and other manuals
30 downloaded pictures of reference materials/parts/schematics/layout etc
17 pictures of homemade tools
wheew...that was exhausting just typing those all in.
Total cost: $5315.94 which includes a bunch of stuff like
parts: AOS, clutch kit, 2 radiators, timing chains, guide rails, guide rail kits for tensioner cylinder, gaskets, cylinder head bolts, about 20 different coolant hoses, IMS bearing, rear main seal, etc.
tools: IMS bearing tool, crowfoot wrench, flare nut wrench, valve spring compressor, jack stands, atv jack, valve lapper, brushes, dolly, etc
service: cylinder head repair from Costa Mesa R&D
Well done, those that take their cars in for repairs will never know this feeling but posting the rebuild will take another 6 months.
Next time start a thread and just update it as you go along. Much easier than trying to post it afterwards.
How did you address cylinders?
What were the OOR and taper values that you found?
Major accomplishment. These engines take time to assemble, most of that time is spent cleaning and preparing parts.
"But then it gets full of BS comments & hijacked!"
YES!
That is why I abandoned reporting on my M96 rebuild. Moderators seem to give passive approval of the BS and worse.
Several well known Rennlisters helped me - all offline.
So none of that useful info like OOR gets into the Forum.
Sad but so easily remedied if Internet Brands cared to.
Thats why I don't share anything of technical substance anymore, either. Its also why I don't even post class schedules, or even the new technical references here.
Put all this into a Packet and Sell it for like $50.
I'm not sure why it seems these engines are such a secret. If it wasn't for Pelican parts most info would be very cryptic and hard to find.
5k for all the parts, tools, supplies is nothing! just goes to show what the guys that charge 12-15k make! Plus they could do it in their sleep and in half the time!
This is why I asked about cylinders and etc. Cylinders alone can equate to 6k easily.
Parts and processes for one of my simpler, Stage I engines is 14k.
The OP was very resourceful and I applaud his achievements.
"If it wasn't for Pelican parts most info would be very cryptic and hard to find"
You won't find much on Pelican to help you with the crucial parts of an M96 rebuild. I have personally encouraged Wayne to publish the whole engine rebuild and include it in a new edition of his book. I realized it was a silly suggestion once I started collecting info ,data photos -just like the OP. The new edition would be enormous and beyond the skill set/equipment of an otherwise competent engine rebuilder/engineer like me.
A small example is the OOR issue. Where do you measure & why & how. What are the wear limits?
If you do not know the answer the rebuild may be a failure.This engine is way beyond the complexity & nuances of mainstream engines.Think Ferrari ,not SBC.
My conclusion after having done the rebuild (not yet installed, nor tested-life !) is that Jake's engines are reasonably priced. It is not the work/parts alone that is worth it. It is the knowledge and the warranty/support. YEMV.
Next time I need a rebuild.....
Imre,
I followed your posts here and at the other forum. Your posts from 3 years ago was extremely helpful. When I saw your avatar I realized I failed to thank you as well! So thank you! Sorry to hear about your recent issues.
The head repair was $1200 with a valve job. About twice what Dharn55 paid 5yrs previously. I was okay with it since I wanted to have someone with experience on 996s do the job.
I'm glad it helped. That's the reason I posted the thread in the first place. To keep it from getting clogged with BS, I hid it in the Canadian forum.
Maybe that's what it takes to keep a 996 build thread going to the dumpster.
Don't feel bad about my engine, it will run again by next season. Have a couple other egnine projects going in the summer that stopped progress but it will restart in about a month from now.
I think the only way to effectively keep a build thread clean here, is to post it, and then select "close thread" as soon as you make the first post.
The rest of my content has been edited.
Great job, I know info on these motors is hard to come by. Now for an addition level of accomplishment, take one and add a GM LS3 480hp all by yourself, and I mean no physical help from anyone, even the install into. Put 10k miles on it and loads of attention everywhere you drive it. That's another level of enjoyment.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...onversion.html
And for those of us unable to attend the classes - thank you to all those who have attended and use their knowledge to help us when we ask.
And in Jake's case, damn those who have whined so much that he just gave up helping us on the Forums as much as he used to. In some difficult cases he is the only one to post the solution. Reading a few lines of promotion from a Sponsor(permitted by Rennlist rules btw) is a small price to pay for info you can't get anywhere else.
If such knowledge is no longer shared the M96 becomes even more expensive and difficult to repair.Ultimately that erodes the value of the cars, the parts support and Forum participation.
It is nuggets of info like how to confirm a Variocam solenoid is defective and to what degree that are impossible to find any other way - including the FSM.
Thank you Jake.
I second this! Jake also had noted at some new resources for DIY'ers a month or two ago... I hope that comes through soon, as my car is in pieced all over the garage! 😆
I came to my senses, after a couple of reminders from modern humans... I'd only be a part of something from behind the scenes, where I had zero contact with the support side, and never had to work with the end user.
I recently deleted all my email addresses and set up one new one. Yesterday I was at the Mitty at Road Atlanta and all was good till one person spotted me helping a 996 customer behind my RV when he had a CEL pop on for a loose gas cap. Within an hour the BS had begun, we packed up, and left a day early!
Congratulations on a successful and frugal top end rebuild !! I had suggested the top end only repair on a few intermix conditions, but it is not a popular idea among the 996 crowd. I would not hesitate to do this own my own m96 engine, but there is always a risk in not doing a complete rebuild, IF the intermix is more oil-in-coolant and less coolant-in-oil your chances are greatly improved . Most 996 owners do not want to take that risk, congratulations again and keep us posted!
I can tell you that when I found the intermix on my car at 48,000 mile back in September of 2008 it was extensive. The coolant had so much oil in it that it was lick a thick pudding. And the oil had so much coolant in it it was like a thick chocolate shake. I don't know how long it had been going on but I have to believe it was for a while. I changed the oil and coolant but it remixed right away, although some of this was probably remenants that did not drain when I changed the fluid.
In any case back then fixing cracked heads was not well know and the dealer, my Indy and Jake said I had no choice but to replace the engine. Being a home builder in the depth of the recession there was no way I could afford that then. They all said there would be bearing damage, etc. I changed the fluids and parked the car until the next spring. As those of you who followed my threads know I had the head repaired, replaced a few other items, put the engine back together, flushed the cooling system as well as I could, put everything back together and have been driving it since.
I never even replaced the hoses. I turned 92,000 mile earlier this month and the damn thing still runs strong! I have changed chain tensioner, put in a DOF ceramic IMS upgrade and misc other thing over the last nine years too. I think my oil pressure may not be what it would have been and the bearing my not go for 200,000, but you never know.
So, sure, if you have an old ntermix it would be better to rebuild the engine, and a Raby engine would be fantastic, but not everyone can, or needs to go that way.
I want to say again that Jake and Charles were very helpful when I went through this, great guys!
That's great news !! Glad to hear your top end rebuild is doing well !! 42k and climbing is more than some have lasted right out of the Factory !! Good job.
The oil after it gets into the cooling system can soak into the rubber hoses and soften them too much and they will swell, you did right by cleaning it quickly and thoroughly. Another tip should anyone encounter this is to use several gallons of brake cleaner through the cooling system with an external pump, nothing removes and soaks up oil like brake cleaner. It will even remove oil that has slightly soaked into the rubber. The hoses should be pliable but not soft or stiff, too dry and they will dry-rot/crack , to soft and they will swell/burst, should be like Goldie Locks... juuuust Right.
Doug,
Your posts from when you went through your rebuild was very helpful. I archived your post, along with many more from others who went through the same thing. My 2000 C2 Cab is now at 199190 miles. Still drives better than any car I have ever driven.
I heard the same concern from many others. I went ahead and replaced all the rubber hoses when I did my rebuild. I also cleaned all the metal hoses and the oil cooler until i was sure no oil was left. I also replaced the radiator. To date no evidence of oil spots ever showed back up.
RRRUFF
Great to hear. Looks like my 996 decided to loose some coolant through the exhaust yesterday. Been looking at options, and none of them any good, so would like to do myself. I just got a hold of the WSM so at lest I have that documentation. Will also bring the heads away. I did call and talk with the folks at Flat6 and despite only being about an hour and half way, they will not be able to fit me into June... I am hoping I can salvage most of my engine, and just mainly focus on the heads... I think it will be quite doable if I can be that lucky.
Would it be possible to contact you and pick your brain from time to time. Just PM me and we can exchange info.
thanks -- rr
Another item we started changing as well is the expansion tank. We lost a fresh rebuild in a customer's car when the tank failed about 150 miles after the engine was put in even through it passed our tests and held vacuum. Only when ti got hot did it not hold full system pressure.
If you have your documented steps, can I get my hands on that? Looking to tackle this in a couple of months. Currently I'm researching as much as I can. Called a local machine shop...did you end up using nikasil sleeves? That's the step I'm confused about and trying to put together a plan. Do I have a shop machine out cylinder then sleeve? How does all that work? The shop I spoke to said for a couple hundred bucks they can bore out the cylinders from 3.4 to 3.6 is that the way to go? Sorry for the million questions. When I posted on here so many people say things like I have to spend 10-20k and that's just ridiculous--and I can't afford that. I'm hoping, through careful planning, that I can do the job for similar or less than what you spent.
Good questions to ask. I wouldn't trust having anyone work on this block unless they are familiar with the M96 engine.
This isn't a Subaru which can be bored out and aftermarket pistons fitted. Like with Alusil, the Lokasil bore is uncoated and even if you can bore it out, there is a specific process to expose the silicon particles that make up the wear surface. Then a Ferrostan coated piston must be used (Mahle Motorsports can make them for $$$). This does not solve the inherent cylinder scoring or cracking issues with the M96 engine.
Hi,
I'm going to attempt to rebuild my m97 motor. The engine is out and all accessories are off. I've been doing searches for technical information or help of any kind and ran across your DIY. But I cant find the excel file. Are you willing to send it to me? Thanks.
Jake Raby did a video series on rebuilding these engines. You will be able to purchase it from Pelican Parts or LN Engineering as well as Amazon. Check out his YouTube channel called "Rennvision". Lots of free information about Porsches. He is also doing an M9X rebuild class that will be held this month. He says it will be the only one for 2020.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvI..._as=subscriber
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
