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YOUR RESEARCHConsidering first 911, 996
Leading reported evidence
Install used one thoroughly checked it out
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The mechanics that installed the used one thoroughly checked it out before installing.
Leading evidence: 'Install used one thoroughly checked it out' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'cayman s if you are fairly patient' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean 996.2' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Note on the history of the vehicle: 45k miles, engine replaced with a used one after a sleeve cracked in the original.
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I had it replaced with an LN before I took delivery of my 2001 C4 Cab, the mileage was 25K.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
From all of your influence, I'm now leaning towards finding a more well-used example of a 996 or Cayman S (~40-60k miles) for a few reasons:
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First post, new to the forums.
I'm hoping I didn't miss any sticky about not asking questions like this, but...
I've been looking to get my first Porsche after months of looking and years of dreaming. I was considering first-gen Cayman S's or similar because around $30k is what I'm willing to spend. I'm looking to get the best I can with the budget.
Here's the actual question:
I may have the option to get a 1999 996 C4 with less than 10k miles on it. It looks stunningly new--like a time capsule. This for about $30k. It has had pretty regular maintenance (oil/filter changes, brake flushes), new tires, but also no attention to the IMS bearing.
Is this a reasonable price? I would intend to retrofit the IMS sooner rather than later so would factor an extra $2k or so into the price.
Thanks!
It's a lot of car for the money, the price seems right. Consider that a loaded Camry is that kind of money or more. Many believe, and say that the Cayman is the best Porsche made, but as with everything that's just an opinion. You may want to drive each of them, they are very different cars. If you started the search with a Cayman in mind you should probably drive one because you may question whether you made the right choice. It's the whole decisional anxiety thing. I'm kind of in the same predicament right now - it's either a 02-04 996 or a 06-07 Cayman.
Good luck though.
When I was looking for the 911 I have the opportunity to drive a Cayman, the way it drives is like a Go-Kart in steroids, and I'm all for the driving experience I'm 6' and 170 pounds, to get in and out you have to do it carefully and also not to much headroom clearance.
I will be able to live with it for a couple of years and change it for a 911 later if necesary but because this was my first weekend car, my wife will not going to allow any changes in the next 5 years or more so I bought my 911.
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Just my $.02,
No mk1 car('99-'01) should be over $25k regardless of mileage or else you paid too much.
You would not pay $1500 for a rear projection TV from 90's just because it's only been used for 2 hours.
Thanks for all the responses!
I looked at a 2006 Cayman S a couple months back and it was a joy to drive. I was undecided and it was sold before I could make up my mind. I'm going to drive the 996 tomorrow. We'll see how it feels.
If I was deciding on my first Porsche, it would be tough to choose between a Cayman and a 911. The 911 is so iconic, and the Cayman's handling is sublime and forgiving.
If I had not found an Aero 996, I probably would have upgraded from my 986 to a Boxster S or a Cayman, but the kitted 996 was just so damn sexy, I couldn't walk away.
This may be a forgone conclusion at this point with the Cayman being sold, but depending on where you live and how you plan to use it the C4 is a great all year round car. The Cayman would be good as well given the right tires, but the C4 has a slight edge.
That said I think its a bit high, $25k would be good considering you plan to replace the IMS
To help decide between a Cayman and a 996, you might think about how and when you plan to drive it.
For a daily driver I prefer my 996, and so it accumulates more miles than the Cayman. The 996 is roomier, quieter, and easier to drive. The flip side is that the Cayman shines when you start to hit the twisties whereas the 996 takes a bit more attention to drive fast.
If I had to settle for just one, it would be a difficult decision.
But an ultra-low mile 996 is very tempting. Really, try to drive both and see how they seem to fit with your most common use of the car.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a superlow mileage car as I do not trust them. Seals tend to dry out, and stuff just happens to an engine when it is sitting still. Any used cars I have bought in the past have always been medium/high miles, driven in the manner intended, and usually very little goes wrong.
With a 15 or so year old car you can assume that all rubber parts are not what they were, e.g. would you use a 15 year old condom even if it was "new" and trust it for it's prophylactic properties? Exactly, count on some rubber parts giving up soon, some leaks developing etc.
Other than that, it should be mechanically sound, I would get a leakdown and compression test, as a car that is only run once every few months will see many times the bearing and bore wear when cold, than a car run daily will.
I'm off now to check it out. The concerns with the seals, bushings, and any rubber parts decaying is quite valid. I'll certainly bring that up. If it seems good, I'll go for a PPI. Else I'll wait for another nice 911 or Cayman to pop up.
Thanks for all the replies!
Don't get scare about the low miles, mine was 3900 only. I did a PPI directly with a Porsche dealer, after I bought it they changed all fluids, spark plugs, serpentine belt, filters and tires, almost 3000 miles later is bone dry and handling perfectly I rather be me the one who is going to put the miles and do the maintenance than someone else. Regarding the price a low miles is hard to find and you will pay premium price, due a National search on autotrader and you'll see. Besides this is a car not a piece of meat who get rotten with time.
I bought my 01 C2 last year with 59k, all original. My suggestion would be to buy the car that really makes you feel good driving it. But, keep at least $3-5k on the side to fix any issues, such as old rubber parts. Just remember these are old sports cars, with significant cost of ownership!
Tried it out yesterday and it was simply beautiful. It felt very stable, quick, accurate, and responsive.
I made an offer a couple grand less than the listed price and they passed. Then they knocked off $500. I didn't say yes. However, I can't stop thinking about it!
If I come around, how immediately should I consider replacing the IMS bearing? Also, I don't have a trusted Porsche mechanic to do a PPI, and they won't let me drive the car to Mechanic due to liability; the mechanic would have to go to the dealer. Is it typical for a mechanic to drive 100 miles round trip to do an inspection?
IMS is a personal decision. I had it replaced with an LN before I took delivery of my 2001 C4 Cab, the mileage was 25K. I had the RMS replaced as well...
I personally greatly prefer the MkII 996's (2002-2004). Improved interior, nicer looking front end, more power. And a $30K budget should be plenty for a very clean 996.2. Or a Cayman, probably an Cayman S if you are fairly patient. I'd worry less about super low mileage and more about pristine condition and great service history.
But also have gone between between 996's and 977CS's... (I tend to go through cars fairly frequently)
Had a 2004 C2.
Great
car.
Sold it earlier this year and picked up a 2008 Cayman S which I really wanted to try for a while...
Also a great car.
Really a superb handling car, even compared to 996's. Very sharp, almost telepathic handling. But down a few ponies from the 996.
Now I keep looking at 996.2 and 997.1 turbo's...
This one really tempted me. Turbo S, X50, Ceramic brakes, one owner... And about 150 horsepower more than the Cayman S
Not quite in the $30K budget however!
By the way, even though the color balance is really off on the pictures, that's three different Porsche silver gray's...
Polar Silver (996), Arctic Silver (987CS) and GT Silver (Turbo)
I love low mileage cars, the lower the better. If they've been garaged and driven even once a month you will have no more problems than a new car. Low mileage cars have less wear on the brakes and chassis, the interior, and the exterior. If you don't by the car someone else will, there are very few in existence with that kind of mileage. If you like the car its a great find, if you don't like the color or the interior its not so good as you will have to live with that. The IMSB is not a big deal, its a great time to do it before the stock bearing starts to deteriorate. Some will always say you pay to much but some like myself will always think you were lucky to buy an almost new car for the price. In the end you should drive a Caymen and 996 and see which you prefer, if it happens that you like the 996 better I think you would love the almost new one you found.
I would agree with you in general and for most cars, but Porsche's in my opinion can be a bit different.
Here's why:
Sitting *can* cause problems, particularly in 996's. A 16 year old (~192 months?) car with 10,000 miles probably did
not
get well driven at least once a month (that's about 52 miles a month!) It likely got driven for a few hundred or thousand miles in spurts, and sat
long
periods.
Many Porsche owners are fanatical about cars that they actually drive. It's not uncommon to find a ~55,000 mile car that looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor and has had fully documented "whatever it needs" Porsche dealer service it's entire life. Are original, 10K brake pads and rotors any better than pads/rotor/fluid that was put on by the dealer 5,000 miles ago on a higher mileage car? Most of the super low mile 996's seem to have been owned not by Porsche or driving enthusiasts, but by 'luxury sport car' owners.
In Porsche's in particular, newer is usually better. Without getting into the whole single/double row e-throttle etc. debate, the MkII 911's have many improvements to the looks and driving experience.
Owners of super low mileage cars tend to be overly 'proud' of them and ask for too much money. Something like a 10,000 original mile 993 Turbo will bring ridiculous money these days (and still need to be gone over top-to-bottom to deal with all the problems from sitting so long), but 996's aren't collector cars, their drivers.
For the same money I would take in a heartbeat a 40K or 50K superbly clean and maintained 2004 996.2 vs a 10K mile 1999 996.1. Not that I wouldn't consider a super clean, super low mile '99, I just wouldn't pay a very big premium for it.
From all of your influence, I'm now leaning towards finding a more well-used example of a 996 or Cayman S (~40-60k miles) for a few reasons:
1. There are many with the IMS work already done and more regular maintenance, ideally with records
2. I can get a decent one for around $20-5k if I'm patient
3. I won't have to worry about babying and protecting the virgin example in question
That's not to say I won't take extra good care of it and beat it up; it'll still get more attention than it needs.
It'll be my first Porsche so I want to do more than just appreciate it--I want to enjoy it!
Regarding the awd, I have just gotten setteled in with my 99 C4. I have had many other sports cars and like to push them, get a little sideways and such. My C4 does this in a very controlled maner. With the PSM on it won't let it step out. With it off it it has a very predictable slide that is easily controlled with the throttle. None of my other cars were this controllable at the limit and beyond (300ztt, e36 m3, rx8). While the c4 won't claw it's way out of a snow bank like an audi, it sure adds a surefootedness to the car like nothing I have ever experienced before.
You may swing back to the low end of your mileage range... I know I have waffled between $18k 80-100k mile versions with most or all of the concerns addressed to the 30-40k mile cars that probably just need a little servicing and driving.
I do not really see evidence that the super low mile cars are a problem. Most guys service them up and drive them, and it works. I am not partial to the .1 or .2 cars, I would happily take either. Equal price and condition though, Mk2 for sure. I am looking for cars with the fewest immediate needs as possible because there will always be something...
I'd like to thank everyone again for your feedback, comments, and suggestions. I picked up the 1999 996 Carrera 4 you see below on Friday for just under $20k. The mechanics that did the PPI were impressed with the find and I'm really quite happy.
Note on the history of the vehicle: 45k miles, engine replaced with a used one after a sleeve cracked in the original. The mechanics that installed the used one thoroughly checked it out before installing. The previous 996 ran into someone or something--luckily the engine is in the back and only the front of the vehicle was damaged!
I just wish I could drive it more. It's been wet/snowy around here.
There's not much to the 996 AWD system, so there's very little added expense unless a component fails. This is possible and does occasionally happen, but it's not common. Beyond that rare issue, all you have to do is change the fluid in the front differential every so often. I don't remember the official fluid change recommendations; I think it's every 60K miles.
HerrDr, your new 996 looks great!
