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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHDrove a NA 996 TIP today... and I liked it
Reported or suspected cause
tip starts in second gear
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
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Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
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Reported cause
Forgot the one annoying issue was the Tip starts in second gear from a stop.
Leading evidence: 'tip starts in second gear' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'tip starts in second gear' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace clutch' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
I Adon't mind driving in MANUAL but it would be nice if AUTO could be changed more to my liking.
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Suggestion
If you change transmission fluid in one ever 30k miles, it is almost guaranteed to never die.
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Suggestion
I have come to the conclusion that the best way to do a full throttle run, such as a 0-100 MPH stint, is to put it in automatic and let it shift at redline itself.
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Suggestion
I have come to the conclusion that the best way to do a full throttle run, such as a 0-100 MPH stint, is to put it in automatic and let it shift at redline itself.
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33 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
In fact sport chrono makes the whole tip behavior so much more livable, though still not PDK.
I feel kind of dirty. I always said I would never buy a TIP 996 unless it was a turbo... but I had never driven one ... until today. Gotta admit it was a lot better than I thought it would be. My wife always nags on me to get an auto due to a bad left knee and an impending knee replacement in the future... but I could never imagine owning a 911 in an auto. Well after today's drive I'm open to an auto if a nice example shows up somewhere.
With all the negative posts on here the past couple weeks about blown engines, intermix, IMS, blah blah blah I was actually considering not getting a 996 and getting a 335i instead. But then I took our Cayenne into the dealer for some warranty work, got to looking around and admiring the brand... and then driving the 996 put a grin on the face that no 335i can do (for me anyway).
Funny thing is I went out to drive the new F150 and just happened to stumble on the Porsche during the drive. BTW... the new F150 is pretty nice. Looks better in person than in pictures. Same goes for the new Mustang.
There is a huge difference between 98-01 tiptronic transmissions and 02+ units.
98-01 Tiptronic transmissions are piece of $hit ZF* built units with only 5 shift maps.
2002+ Tiptronic is a GOAT 722.6 Mercedes unit, sourced straight from the E55 and S600 V12 models. It has 150 operational maps and it is considered to be one of the best automatic transmissions ever built. It is by FAR the best built and most reliable mechanical unit in the 996.
If you change transmission fluid in one ever 30k miles, it is almost guaranteed to never die.
This.
Perfect summary.
Kalish, wondering what you're still doing here? Are acura forums really that boring with no one breaking down or having issues there?
I could understand KK's prescence though as he's got a couple screws loose.
I am here for entertainment purposes, there is no drama on Acura forums.
Down there, moderator has a car with 600k miles on it and he is doing ridiculous metal work on the body. People are asking if their motors are broken in by 350k miles and should they try nitrous, people are wondering if they will ever have to buy another car because this one refuses to quit after not having a single oil change in 5 years....no fun at all
The POS comment is mainly more geared towards the performance and predictive shifting capabilities compared to the newer tip tranny. Although I have seen more failures of mk1 tip trannys, I wouldn't necessarily consider the mk1 tranny's a POS from a reliability point of view.
I'm glad to hear its not a reliability issue, at least not a major one. As far as a performance issue, I can live with it the way it is. My bitch about the TIP is if I turn the wheel the shifting switches become upside down and my brain up to now at least has had a hard time keeping up with which direction an upshift or down shift is. Maybe in time it will become automatic but not yet. I wasn't looking to buy a Porsche when I got it. I took it in trade on something else and just decided to keep it instead of sell it as I just really liked it and for as little as its worth it seemed crazy not to keep it for myself. If I had my choice I would have preferred the 6 speed but to be honest I've come to like the TIP just fine.
JD:
The reliability of the Tip is better than manual:
* less stress on rear main seals
* no need to replace the clutch
I had a 2001 Tip for 4 years and loved it. Loved it more in stop and go traffic. Performance wise, if folks had not called attention to slight delay in shifting, I would have never noticed. Mileage was 2 mpg better than my 2003 manual.
Would have liked a paddle shifter as more than once my fat fingers pressed the bottons while turning into corners.
Enjoy it.
It does seem stupid and maybe even more costly to put the shifter switch on the steering wheel instead of the shifter but it is what it is. As far as a delay goes I don't notice one but I've never driven another Porsche to compare it with.
I haven't driven a Porsche Tip...only Audi A4s (2002 MY). Does the Porsche version have rev matching features so that it doesn't lurch when down shifting...and if so, starting what model year? Obviously the PDK does, as does the VW/Audi DSG.
My other experience with Tip was the lack of instant response on acceleration from stop. Did Porsche ever solve this completely? Again this is not a problem with the automated gearboxes.
I have enjoyed my Tiptronic and I don't notice a delay in shifting. Maybe I have gotten used to the timing and anticipate when I need to hit the up or down button to shift just when it's needed.
I appreciate that the shift buttons are on the steering wheel as it allows me to "get into a groove" with shifting and steering on a pleasantly curvy back road without constantly moving my hand off the steering wheel.
The '99-'01 Tiptronic was built by ZF and has five shift maps (as noted a post above). This seems to be plenty of maps as I cannot specifically tell one from the next. Certainly the most aggressive and least aggressive shift maps are vastly different. But the other three in between?? I cant really tell which one is which.
The '02-'05 Tiptronic was built by Daimler-Chrysler and has so many more shift maps that it might as well be a continuum.
The D-C Tiptronic weighs about 40 Lbs more and also has two reverse speeds/gears. It also has a 3.37/1 final drive while the ZF has a 3.444/1 final drive.
1st, 2nd, and 5th gear ratios are also slightly different.
Otherwise the two transmissions operate in the same way mechanically.
I have heard that the D-C trans is better, but I have never been able to find a description of why or how it is superior.
Here you go, 722.6 information. There is plenty more information and mechanic opinions on the 5-g tronic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...c_transmission
John, it does not have automatic rev matching features but it doesn't lurch if that means what I think you mean. I can work my foot so that it drops a gear at the same time I give it a taste of throttle.
Spokayman, I always drive in MANUAL because mine will shift to each gear way to early and at 2000 rpm's or maybe even less it will be in 5th gear if I drive it in AUTO. My question, is there a way that a dealer or indie can program it to shift at higher rpm's and also to not go into a higher gear unless a higher speed is reached? I know nothing about five shift maps or how to change them. I Adon't mind driving in MANUAL but it would be nice if AUTO could be changed more to my liking. I almost forgot, my car is also a 2000.
when I was shopping years ago, I decided to limit my search to MY02-up only due to the following reasons: an increase in hp/tq, glass rear window (for the cab), glovebox, and YUP...... a sturdier tranny (tip)
Sorry Kalashnikov, that link shed no light whatsoever on a comparison between the ZF and Mercedes transmissions. I had read this Wiki article before.
And being Wikipedia, a person needs to careful with the info as it is often incorrect, incomplete, etc.
In fact the Wiki entry has incorrect model years of Porsche that it was used in.
In the 996 the D-C transmission was known as the A96/10, 35, and 50. The A96/50 version was for the Turbo and started to be used as early as 2000.
Anyone know what the actual differences are between the two manufacturer's transmissions?
JD, I too manually shift the transmission about 95% of the time because of the tendency of the trans to shift too soon.
But if you drive aggressively the shift points are vastly changed, and it holds gears and RPMs very well. It knows not to downshift during a high-g turn or heavy deceleration since a shift at these times could upset the balance of the car.
I have come to the conclusion that the best way to do a full throttle run, such as a 0-100 MPH stint, is to put it in automatic and let it shift at redline itself. It is more accurate on it's shift points than I can manage manually.
What differences do you want to know?
ZF is slower, less durable, has 5 shift maps. 722.6 is faster, more durable, has 150 shift maps.
722.6 was always known as 722.6, it never had any other name. Porsche used it in the 996TT as they did not have an automatic good enough to handle the power of the car. Porsche first used in 2000 996 turbo, and then moved to 2002+ NA 996 and early 997 models.
On the Porsche it labeled as 722.6. How do I know? I walked to my garage and took this picture for you. See the first digits in the P/N?
Sheesh,
I am becoming sorry that I asked the question. I thought maybe someone would know the answer.
Yes, I have the Essential Companion and this is where I found the info I just posted. But it too does not tell us what the actual physical or mechanical differences are between the two.
The book also does not note that it was a better, faster, or more durable transmission.
I read in posts from time to time that the D-C trans is better, but this is just anecdotal evidence without some facts to back up the why and how. Again, I am just curious about this.
THE A96 TYPE INFORMATION I NOTED WAS DERIVED FROM THE BOOK REFERENCED ABOVE, AND YES I ALSO NOTED IN MY POST WHICH MODELS AND YEARS IT WAS USED.
Forgot the one annoying issue was the Tip starts in second gear from a stop. To get better acceleration, you need to switch to manual mode and place into first gear. I guess it was fuel economy.
Actually starting in second is effortless, First is only needed to start if I'm racing. I drive in MANUAL 90% of the time but rarely use first gear. I don't know if the second generation TIP transmissions are stronger, faster, or whatever but I see no need for ten different maps and if the first generation transmissions don't seem to break with any regularity then I don't see a stronger one being a big deal. In any case as far as 996 cars go none of the transmissions seem to have a bad rap reputation from what I've read. The 6 speed seems to be the trans of choice for most but the TIP is still favored by some who drive in city traffic often or are just lazy. If I'm correct Porsche doesn't even make a stick shift transmission any more and all the fastest race cars have paddle shift transmissions.
I drove mine 98 tip, that is one annoying thing, pretty ok for cruising or long highway trips but for a speedy active driving it is pathetic, the acceleration sucks and the upshifts are often far to early, therfore the car is even slower. city driving is unbearable, only using the manual shifting mode it is possible to move about.
zf - no no no.
I freakin HATE the second gear tiptronic starts. And to my knowledge, there is no way to modify 996 or 997's (or 986/987) to not do that by default, nor any tunes or hardware hacks.
Sport Chrono on 9*7's will defeat it, but again, sport chrono is always off by default. In fact sport chrono makes the whole tip behavior so much more livable, though still not PDK.
I'm not a fan of the 2nd gear start either.
It is something I am used to now on my Gen 1 car, and I suppose the Gen 2 might be a bit better with the larger engine (more torque).
And as others noted, you can force it to start in 1st if you need a quick takeoff.
Another thing I noticed is that the overall RPMs in top gear (5th) are lower than the RPMs in a 6-speed in 6th gear.
At least this is true for the ZF trans. I did not calculate it for the Daimler trans.
This means lower RPMs at highway speed.
I understand when people reject the tiptronic and are adamant that the manual is the only way to go because it's a personal choice thing.
It is the best automatic transmission I have ever driven though, and also it allows my wife to drive the 996 which was my ultimate goal. She now understands why Porsches are so special and it is fun watching her reaction as she drives the car.
As an owner of a 335 (I used to have an '09, now I have a '14), as well as owning a 996 tip, I'll give you my opinion....
The most fun car of the three is definitely the 996. However, the '09 335 with a Cobb tune, was definitely ALOT of fun as well. very tight and precise steering, and great acceleration (better than stock 996), but just not quite as planted.
Now the 2014 335 has an amazing smooth 8 speed transmission, but it is definitely more of a "comfy" ride, even with the M-Sport package.
"Force" it to start in 2nd? All you have to do is wiggle your thumb down about 2 mm, in M or D mode. Yes, it upshifts way too fast in D mode. But, slide the lever over to M, and you can compete on the track just fine.
