Europe's 996 Point of view!!!!

Went with my family to Barnes & Noble, to read and grab a coffee, so I decide to stop at the magazine section and see a Porsche related print. With all the latest engine fails, IMS threads and so on, I was questioning myself, did I just made the wrong car selection? Taking the car to the dealer and perform maintenance by the book is not enough? Are all Porsches so unreliable? How many more miles I can enjoy before my engine have catastrophic failure? If I change the IMS the risk for the engine to die still there? In a car who's depreciation is going as fast as our US debt is worth it to spend 2000 or more just to save the engine? I think all my questions were answered by this magazine; 911 & Porsche World, instead of diminishing the 996, it shows you, what a great car it is and also how prices are already picking up in Europe for the Turbos and the 4S. Also on the same issue they have an interview with Finlay Gorham a 40 year Porsche expert, who buy, sell and service 996 and 997 only, if you have time, stop at any B&N and grab a magazine, the December 2014 issue, you will be glad you did.

its a good read: http://magastack.com/issue/946-911-p...world-dec-2014

Yeah! Ugly headlight made the cover.. excellence magazine had a nice write up as well listing it as a great bargain 911. With all the doom and gloom we hear, it is nice to read something positive.

Quotes source post: 11923179

Thanks for the link. This is one of the recent articles on the 996 where IMS wasn't mentioned, surprisingly refreshing for once.

I've been a subscriber of 911 & PW for 4-5 years and that mag has a very balanced approach, though to be fair, most of the scribes believe that the 996 / 986 are flawed & the proverbial whipping boy of the Porsche lineup. But they also list all the weaknesses & issues found in the air cooled 993 & 964 cars which have been conveniently forgotten over the years. In 2012 they had a 12 or 13 page analysis of the M96 engine woes as seen by "hands on" mechanics and shop owners. They didn't pull any punches either, but to the mags credit, they listed all the remedies & upgrades now available for the M96.

Do you remember which issue that was, by any chance ?

December 2014 / No 249 Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist

Quotes source post: 11923179

Thanks a most excellent link to free digital magazine

October 2012 #223 has the engine article.

thanks..also #222 has an interesting article on the IMS replacement options. Downloaded them both to the iPad, makes for nice reading on the plane tomorrow :-)

Thanks. Sent you a PM

Europeans in general, are willing to pay more for like goods. In America we enjoy cheap prices on just about anything compared to the European counterpart. We are spoiled. I do not envy the pricing of vehicles in Europe whatsoever. The only thing they have automotive wise over us is parts availability for some older cars - example - I have an e-type and I can find slightly more parts available in the UK for it than I can in the states. I'm betting, though, that Porsche parts are cheaper in the USA and also there are simply more cars here in general. We like 996's so we of course will say that it is a good time to buy, but my question is compared to other cars has the 996 outpaced them in appreciation? That is the real measure...just because prices have undergone uptick in Europe that doesn't say much about where the American market is headed. Speculating on automotive values is difficult as there are very few real underlying factors driving prices. It's entertainment money (none of us "need" a Porsche...we buy them because we want them and we can afford them...) so all bets are off as to how it "really" works... trends fall in and out of fashion in cars just as they do with all other things... Hard to assign appreciation to anything. Right now you can buy a perfect early Dodge Viper for around $30ks... lots of car for the money... the Corvette counterpart is $5k. Shouldn't they both each be higher? After all not bad cars for that kind of money...400hp v10? Fun, fast, sporty. No logic in the pricing of this kind of stuff. In the 80's a perfect e-jag was $5000. Today an early one with flat floors goes for almost $400k. Can't even do much with that kind of a car...just look at it... Trying to assign logic to car values is boring, difficult, and always theoretical. I'm going to buy a 996 because I like the way it looks and I want a modestly priced car to drive the **** out of and says Porsche. Simple.

Quotes source post: 11929514

Europeans pay almost double for cars what we do, and the difference is entirely tax, which goes to pay for their "free" healthcare and "free" college.

A market is just a collection of individuals at a given time. I was watching an episode of "What's My Car Worth" that featured a stunning black XK150S Jag drophead coupe, and an equally breathtaking Ferrari Lusso. Time has played with the value of both those cars. Neither is at the top nor the bottom of the Jag and Ferrari markets. In my opinion the 996 could be classed with both those cars, not in terms of current prices but in terms of design, performance, driving pleasure and value...and where that will take future prices. The current 996 bottom feeder prices are making all the internet noise. But watch the quality examples as they come to market over the next two years and the car's virtues begin to eclipse it flaws.

Quotes source post: 11931510

I don't think future 996 prices will go that way. While there are other differences why a 996 will never come close to the desirability of an XK150 or any early Ferrari, the biggest difference is that 996s were made in vast quantities. A market sets prices where supply and demand meet. When there is a tremendous supply and limited or average demand, the prices will go nowhere. That's not to say that the 996 is not a good car or that it is not desirable, and at current prices they are a good buy considering the Porsche cachet, decent performance, and excellent dynamics.

Quotes source post: 11931527

kind of what I was getting at. agree

The 996 has done much of its depreciating at this point, as the 997 starts the depreciation process there is no other way for the 996 then going up as the magazine quote, Turbos, and 4S are going up already. Same will happen here, following by Targas and the 40 year edition and goes on. Off course as any other car, amount of miles, owners and accidents will affect the value. The 996 was done in imprecedents quantities for a Porsche, but still a Porsche and no other than the 911, mine I won't sell it for less than a Scion Fr-s or more, if you want a Porsche 911 you have to pay certain price, if not get happy with a Boxster and pay less. Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist

Agree. I mean. I paid 13,5 for my car. So, even if it blows a motor and I invest 10k, Im at 23k. What else even at 23k compares?

I'm in agreement with you, the 996 is as low as its going to get, referring to a moderately used car. Eventually all the "bad" stuff about 996 ownership will become easier to swallow. The production #'s will always be the sticking point. I was advised against a 993 (when they were 30K) due to premature valve guide wear, suspension woes etc. I'd gladly have one now but would pay 40+ for the same car. My neighbor paid 55K for a 993TT less than 3 years ago; a 50K mile, one owner, very clean car. Many felt was priced a bit on the high side at the time. The car world is round; eventually they all come into their own, some better than others.

Thank you. great article

Quotes source posts: 11925520, 11928768

Sorry but how do you access these back issues?

Same question... how do you access the back issues ?

The 996 cars are still relatively new, the oldest are only 16 years old. At this stage of their lives and with the numbers produced and with some bad press they're priced about right. Its a great time to buy and most working class folks can afford them. They look great, have a classic look, and are super to drive, thats why they sold so many for prices that few of todays owners could afford. In ten or fifteen years from now the ones that are left that are clean will demand much higher prices. This is my opinion based on being 72 years old and into collecting and selling cars and bikes since the fifties. Won't do me much good anymore so I'll just enjoy owning and driving it while I still can.

Quotes source post: 11923179

You're a gentleman and a scholar... thanks!!

The price of anything is a product of supply and demand. The biggest driver of 996 prices is that there are so many of them. They made 175,000 996s. In contrast, they only made 68,000 993s and 62,000 964s. Whenever I hear an air cooled guy going on and on about how wonderful the 993s are, I always want to ask them if they were so great why couldn't Porsche sell more of them? Is Porsche marketing just that bad? I think most of the objections to the 996s are idiotic. By any objective measure they are fabulous cars and better than the cars that came before them. When people claim otherwise, they have to resort to meaningless platitudes about "the romance and magic of a 911" and such nonsense. Which car is faster? With car handles better and is easier to drive faster? Which car requires less maintenance? Those are the things I care about not door pings and headlight shape or some amorphous BS about "build quality" whatever that is. Ultimately 996s will go up because the numbers will thin out a bit and because people will over time see them for what they are. Every generation of 911 gets a little more sterile, a little less mechanical than the last. The 996 has a completely different feel to it than a 997.2 let alone a 991. And that feel is closer to the original car. I think people will eventually come to realize that the 996 is a nice sweet spot of the performance and advantages of the water cooled models with more of the original feel than the later water cooled models and the values will go up. But they will never go through the roof because there are just too many of them.

Quotes source post: 11931527

I didn't mean to suggest that the 996 will match the heady prices of the XK150S or the Lusso...as you say the production numbers are enormously different. I meant that in terms of the quality of the cars, the 996 is already the equal of the Lusso and XK150...and time will revive the appreciation of the 996 as a really good car. Who knows what will happen with car prices as a whole. A fragile and complicated world could turn on the automobile like a vengeful child and render them all worthless...if not illegal. I was thinking about going on that reality television Doomsday Preppers. My survival plan would be to put the wife, cat, dog and myself in the 996 and become senior citizen versions of Mad Max...racing from secret gasoline stash to stash...living off the landscape of abandoned mini-marts...gathering with other car lovers around campfires in the AutoZone parking lots. And that is when 996 prices will go through the roof.

Quotes source post: 11933449

On the ipad or iphone, you access the app-store and look for the magazine. Once downloaded, open it's 'app' in the News Store on your Ipad/phone... On top there's a choice 'library/your issues' or something like that. In Library you can select any magazine issue they have to offer :-)