996 C4 Purchase help needed

Hello, I know this might be posted in a way or another, I searched through a lot of helpful posts, I am in the process of making a decision and could use some help! Long story short, I found this 2000 C4, I wasn't planning on C4 I like RWD but this is in mint condition, low miles and drove very nice. The car has ~50K miles on the clock, 4 owners on Carfax, the current owner had it for 3 years and put about 2700 miles on it, he didn't do any regular maintenance during his ownership, not even oil change, the only service was a battery issue, he replaced battery and driver side door locks as it was the reason for the issue, he also replaced the center console because he said it was scratched. ( Photos included ). He had somewhere decent records from previous owners, nothing majors, regular oil maintenance I'd say every 18 months was done with the previous owner's no any oil change with this owner in the last 3 years. Major records I found were in 2014 Air mass sensor, oil separator with crankcase valve, and antifreeze 2007 the 30,000 miles service was done at 30,000 miles, so spark plugs, brake fluid flush, and filters No IMS, RMS, Clutch, Water Pump, Manual transmission oil change, need tires as it expired, I'd say brake pads at 50% and there was some light squeaking after a short drive with a lot of braking. Negotiated the seller to $23000 maybe there are few bucks more maybe not, I told him I'll need to get a quote before making an offer, today I got a quote from a local Porsche shop IMS, RMS, Clutch ($4400) , Water Pump ( W thermostat and coolant $1000), Spark Plugs ( no coil packs ), Transmission oil change, Brakes, and Rotors, Engine oil change plus the cost of the pre-purchase inspection all totals to $7500 plus a $1000 for tires, totals $8500 Now if better maintenance was done some of these expenses were to be saved and I am not in a rush to pull the trigger but where I live we don't see a lot of clean Porsches here plus I liked this one. With all that being said, does the car worth the price of $23K is what I am trying to find out, the outside is in mint condition, it has an MSRP of $107K back in the day. I was initially thinking of doing the IMS first and do other stuff slowly but without any major big-ticket items done in the recent 13 years, I feel that doing everything I mentioned would be a wise choice and figured to get a 2nd opinion here. Also is the C4 more problematic? appreciation wise, would people still consider it in the future like the RWD or the C4 is something they avoid? I've seen very very few on BaT. I've never owned anything but RWD before. I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you Center Console was replaced

Jeeeeezzzzzusssss, 3 years and no oil change? You better cross your fingers really hard...

I would just change the oil and drive it for a while before doing any big work. Monitor the oil for metal, make your list of service & upgrades and do them over time while you are enjoying the car. It has a dual row IMS with a low failure rate so real hurry to replace it. Perhaps wait until it needs the clutch replaced.

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He doesn't remember or has records, he said If I did it probably was when he purchased it in 2017 but he put less than 3000 miles

If the owner will allow, get a pre-purchase inspection. You need to have the cylinders scoped. Drop the sump for metal debris. Check for intermix. DME evaluations - rough running index, fuel trim, camshaft deviations, etc.

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I agree! If they refuse, walk away. Personally, I consider the engine to have been abused with no oil change in 3 years. Also 18 months between oil changes is neglect. No manufacturer recommends that.

I thought of that but maybe after reading about water pump and IMS issues I got worried and was thinking to do it immediately. This was responding to SKM.

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I am not sure he's willing to waste that much time but I'll speak to him, he's a retired old guy spends most of his days playing golf. I agree, 3 years is a lot without oil change, so I guess PPI is a must here, what do you guys think of the price? does it worth it or I'd be better of looking for something else with better service done? like after spending about $8K on the car, would it worth $30K? assuming no engine issues found in PPI.

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I�m kinda new here, but I don�t think this a realistic way to look at things. Most of the cars I looked at, the guys would lament that they had a lot more into the car than they were selling it for. A $20K 996 with $8K of work done that would have to be done eventually anyway is a $22K 996 at best. But here the PPI will give you a bit more confidence you�re not buying a beautiful paperweight.

PPI. Negotiate from there. Don't allow your love for how a car looks (wow, that new center console!) to sway your judgment towards purchasing a mechanically neglected car. Be willing to walk away. If you're set on purchasing the car after the above and want to save some money, change the brakes, plugs, and coils yourself. Those are all pretty easy and straightforward.

Where are you/car located? Possibly someone here can recommend an indy for PPI. Don't let your emotions control, GET A THOROUGH PPI!

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A C4 vs C2 is the least important thing to worry about. The cab will add some cost and headache if you need to fix anything there. The real issue is both the benefit and problem with this car: it�s original. So expect to spend maybe $5k to bring it up to speed the next 1-3 years with repairs and maintenance. These early mki cars might need chain tensioner pads, even at 50k miles. So I would want to buy this car for $17-$20k. The major concern is no maintenance in 3 years, so a bore-scoping PPI would be highly recommended.

I know three owners of 996's, who bought their car without a PPI including myself. No bore scoring no IMS issues is that statistically relevant nope. Am I and my friends lucky? Absolutely not. I did not have service records when I bought the car, it's a 20-year-old car, more cars of this age are not going to have complete records than do. I've now had it for 2 years with zero issues, my only expenses outside of oil changes have been elective. However, you have found a car where you know it was neglected with the most important maintenance item you can do on a car, as opposed to not being sure or believing a seller when they said they took care of it. Go get the car inspected and negotiate it down or walk. Spending 8k on maintenance does not add 8k to the value of the car you will be lucky to get 20% return. It's a car, not a home remodel.

The car is overpriced at $23k. I bought my 2000 C4 Cab for $15k with a new flywheel/clutch & IMS, new battery, new coils/plugs, trans fluid change, sump drop inspection, amongh other things that the previous owner paid $8k for. I paid another $8k to fix everything else that needed to be fixed (which were mostly electrical and broken non-mechanical parts that needed to be replaced), including a used set of Carerra wheels/tires. No need to spend any more $ on it. Recently listed the car for sale at $25k and got offers of $21.5 and $22k that I rejected. I would have accept $23k and my car is in much better condition that the one the OP has described.

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What's your mileage?

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I agree with 99% of your post. Same here. My car had 48k miles when I bought it, no PPI. I didn�t do the IMSB, didn�t do a water pump... Yet I still did spend over $10,000 on: $5k on failed solenoids and tensioner pads $800 on DME repair (from the failed solenoids) $1k on fluids $2.5k on the top $1k on tires $misc on horns, motor mounts, rear window regulator, etc. A 996 owner simply has to budget for $2k/yr regardless of what they end up having to do. Five years can go by without a major repair, and then suddenly, the car might need a $3k repair that brings another $2k with it (while the clutch is being done, do the IMSB, U/AOS, RMS, etc.)

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This is good advice, just plan for repairs even if you don't need to do it. My Audi S3 has been relatively trouble-free in 2.5 years, besides two oil changes a year, an O2 sensor, and some new plugs I just got in the mail. I know that I have some. bigger items coming up though, brakes and trans service. With the 911 I immediately had the IMS, clutch, flywheel, and AOS done. About a year later I had the wheels refinished and new tires put on. Now a few months after that I am getting a new top installed shortly. The wheels were more optional but the top is on its way out. With my GTI I sold last year I think I owned that thing for 3 years before I did anything other than oil changes to it. Then within a few months, I had two hefty bills one around $1500 and another for $2500 for the timing chain tensioner which failed. Thankfully it didn't destroy my engine. Which of course, had it happened 3000 miles earlier I would have received a partial reimbursement of the repair because there was a class-action lawsuit over the tensioners.

Dup Deleted.

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Well, Mike, I agree with 100% of what you said. And would only add for any potential buyer if you want to drink the forum SEO/marketing Kool-aid, be prepared to double down or walk away. I did to a degree and factored it into my decision-making and bought a car that has been as reliable as any other car I've owned. I would not be able to take the same risk on say a McLaren. Very few people here talk about how good the car is. This forum is like a call center, nobody is posting how reliable the car is everybody wants support for the broken stuff, that's understandable but skews perception.

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92.8k miles but the car is as clean it gets. Only 4.6k/year and I only put about 2.8k miles on it myself in past year that I've owned it. Bought a C7 Z51 Vette Stingray and don't need the 996 anymore. PM me if you want to discuss the car and see the listing which is due to expire today.

Sadly I agree wholeheartedly with others. It sounds like you are partially looking at this car for its future value. I'll stop short of saying investment. However, mark my words, you will put more into this car than you get back from it in the end. Just keep saying to yourself "I'm doing it for the twisties, I'm doing it for the twisties, I'm doing it for the twisties..." and you'll be fine! Oh, and if you really want a C2, take the diff out and cover it for the next owner. It's very easy to convert a C4 to a C2.

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I think your miles are the "problem". People value low miles more than maintenance records....I don't necessarily agree with it but it's reality

Nice looking car. Lots of good advice, especially PPI. was new sticker really $107 K? My 2002 C4S coupe, has some nice options and was only $88 K.

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Understood but I own several high mileage cars now and they are problem free, including the 911 and a BMW & MB w/both over 100k miles. Based on this experience, I believe the reliable "higher" mileage vehicles are a better value than lower mileage cars that have not been driven w/o a adequate track record, especialy if there is a documented service history and evidence of proper maintenace for the vehicle (which is the case for all of my vehicles). No reason to pay extra for a low mileage version of any car, unless you are going to just show it in a museum or at classic car shows, because once you start to drive it, it won't be worth as much anymore. All of my cars are cars that I drive (not much but I do drive them) and if I drive them regularly and they don't require any service/maintenance beyond normal wear/tear, that's the best car to buy IMO.

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You could buy my car which has 40k fewer miles and all the same stuff taken care of for what you are asking, that's fair market value, not what I hope to get for it. Not selling it because I can't replace it with anything that has the same value/fun/reliability. I hope you get what your asking I really do, but you're trying to get even money on your car and it's probably not realistic. In order for that to happen, you are gonna need time and luck and a buyer who wants YOUR car for some specific reason be it proximity, nostalgia, or something else. 996 Is a steal, and it's gonna keep getting cheaper (to buy). I hope it sells and you can come back and call me an idiot though.

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I may agree but I've been looking at Bring A Trailer and bidding as well, it is impossible to find a CA 996 with this amount of mileage and that work done at $22K, if you check all those items you are looking at high 20's, based on some feedback I am reconsidering the car and thinking maybe I should wait for something more taken care of.

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That's what I was thinking to do, I appreciate the feedback here, definitely will use the brain over emotions, I thought of replacing those parts with my Dad, plugs seem like a pain in the butt, I am located in SoCal, I already have 3 different great Porsche shops that I talked to you, definitely will do PPI if I moved forward. I've been looking on BaT for a while, I guess I panicked from there, any car without IMS, RMS serviced usually sell for less, one reason is why I am asking here is the price, $23K looks like more than what this car worth, I am not trying to low ball the seller by getting some help here, If it will cost me a total of $30K after I do those things then maybe I should pass and get something that is already done is inspected, that's what I am trying to figure and you guys are very helpful.

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That's what's pissing me too, nothing in 3 years, do they do bore-scoping in a regular PPI ? How many miles on the car when you bought it? how many miles now? This is the 1st time I hear about the tensioner pads! this is something else to think of! To be honest I am taking in consideration future appreciation, Porsches are not my area of expertise but that's what I am here, I've learned a lot and posting this was very helpful for me!. This interesting, I'll have to research the tensioners. That's what the owner said, I looked at the Window Sticker, stopped at $96K and there were more options, I attached Vin Analytics options list, If I am not mistaken it matches Window Sticker. I was hesitant about the PPI if the owner didn't approve it but now I won't move forward without it.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, it was very very helpful, I went with my heart when I saw the car over my brain, cosmetically really in mint condition, one of the purposes of this post is to determine if the car is actually worth the price, after reading all those great comments, it looks like it's not, of course, a car worth what someone is willing to pay for but I am not in a hurry, and yes I am thinking of future appreciation but not sure how the 996 would do, I've been searching for 560SL 85-89, Boxster over the last 14 months and recently 911, what I can say prices for all those cars went up, I passed on couple amazingly maintained Boxster S's 06 at a price I can barely get a base Boxster for these days, but I would safely say prices for those cars went up between CL and BaT over the last 14 months. I also learned about tensioners! I guess one more thing to go wrong. I'll keep you posted.

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I�d rather pay a little less for a 996 and get the work (IMSB, RMS, etc.) done myself. That way you know it�s been done correctly. The Targa that sold for 41K on BAT, had all the work done and suffered a total engine failure on the ride home is a good example. A PPI is definitely a requirement before purchasing any used car. But even an invasive PPI can�t predict the future of a 20 year old car. Most likely you�ll never get back the money you have pay to keep a 996 properly maintained. A 996 is a great car but not a good investment. Good luck with your search

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The BAT market has exploded in recent years with tons of site traffic. SOME 996's on it, from what I've seen, go for quite a bit higher than market. I'm not sure if the market is trending that way or if BAT bidding wars are inflating the values? I think a bit of both is probably true. Looking at the 996 as an investment might be a bit short-sighted. Unless these cars really take off in the market (I just don't see it with the amount of base model Carreras out there), you're going to be dumping more money into it on maintenance and upkeep than you're going to see a return on. That doesn't mean you'll lose your *** on it if it comes time to sell the car either though. I think as bore scoring becomes more well-known that it will keep prices fairly flat. I don't believe a lot of potential buyers know about the issue. It's all "Has the IMS been addressed?" These engines aren't cheap to replace and that is a large pitfall and will drive more people away that wanted to get into a "cheap" Porsche. That said, the car you're looking at looks clean but the lack of maintenance is alarming. Look for the model you want (do you really want a coupe and settling for the cab.?) and be willing to pay more for one that is taken care of. It will save you money down the line as long as you don't run into a large engine repair bill.

I�d rather buy a 996 with the original IMS and a clean oil filter and oil analysis and then have the replacement IMS, clutch, AOS and other elective parts installed. Knowing the engine never had metal circulating in it is important to me. Many 996 engines with replacement IMS bearings had metal circulating throughout before the IMS was replaced, some on the brink of total failure.

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Funny, I was thinking about that exact Targa when I typed my response about BAT. Yep.

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That Targa also had a bunch of red flags from the engine rebuild paperwork that was in the gallery that nobody really called out. The buyer was going in on his first Porsche purchase so this wouldn't have been anything that struck him as odd due to lack of education. Sure a PPI can find problems, but it's not a definitive tell all. Could have perfect looking cylinders one day and scored a couple weeks later. You never know. At the end of the day, it boils down to each individuals expectations and risk assessment on their purchase, because it's their money. I skipped a PPI, bought virtually sight unseen 700+ miles away. Paid what most would say was too much, but it was exactly what I wanted and it couldn't have worked out any better.

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I don't view any car as an "investment" - at least any of the cars that I own and can afford to buy. Truly classic/collectible cars are another matter but I don't have Jay Leno kind of $. The way I look at the value of the 996 is like buying the cheapest house in an expensive neighborhood. As the price of new and other late model Porsches rise, so will the value of the 996. With the cost of a new 2020 911 Carerra 4 Cabriolet going for about $120k, it makes buying a completely sorted out 2000 C4 Cab like mine for 80% less at around $20-25k (the going rate for comparable vehicles on BaT) quite a bargain. For more power and a more contemporary vehicle, I bought a 2014 Z51 Vette Stingray Convertible for only $38.5k rather than go for a 15-20 yr old 996TT for about the same price. So for me, the decision about buying a car (and I've bought many) is all about the comps and how much "value" you can get for your $.

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I was looking at that Targa the other day! crazy! one of the mechanics was telling me to walk away from any car that didn't have the oil changed in 3 years, she was like I would walk away, which I might do since I am not in a rush anyway. I want a 911, Cab or Coupe are fine, the auto tranny is what I don't want, originally I wanted a Boxster but it's a bit small, my budget is definitely higher than the asking price+$8K of maintenance so I am willing to pay more for a better car, as I mentioned up, one of the mechanics advised me to walk away just for the fact that oil was never changed. I wasn't very aware of the bore-scoring, this post brought that more to my attention, I am planning to spend the money to maintain the car but it looks like the 996 is very problematic, I liked the 996 since I saw it in NFS2000, I was 10 YO at that time.

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I loved that game! Actually, I played NFS Porsche Unleashed (PC). I remember the 99 996 didn�t seem to have much power and needed to be rev�d out to redline to make it fast, but newer 996s were much better. Kinda true in real life too.

^^^20 hp difference isn't "much" better -