What's the best engine oil 996?

According to everyone, everyone has a different opinion on the best engine oil to use. What about Royal Purple, Redline 5W40, Motul, Amsoil and Mobil 1 ? Some even recommended the Diesel Mobil 1. Please help me decide.

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Oh no you did not just post this.....changing the subject on purpose.....meet my cousins

I use Mobile 1 - every 5K

It's a valid question for a newbie to the Porsche 911 996 world.....me :-)

Oh alright....I currently use Syntec 5-40. M1 gives my car the creamy butter effect in the filler tube. M1 sells the 5-40 as a diesel oil but I've used it regardless.

mobil 1, 0w40. 5000 miles with fresh filter. cheap insurance. easy diy.

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YES!

My local independent uses Fuchs Titan Supersyn 5w 40. Since I trust him to work on the car, I choose to trust his recommendation of oil.

Shell Helix Ultra, best of luck finding some but worth the looking because nothing should be as easy as just buying what is available right?

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EVOO

You guys are just plain mean... OP... do a search and you shall find answers GL

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Not really. A search will find arguments, rebukes, speculation, misinformation, and very little agreement. I read everything I could when I got my Porsche and came away thinking Castrol Syntec 5w 40 might be acceptable. Is that correct...I don't know, but it was the best I could figure with all of the different answers. My indy recommends Motul 5w 40, but it's very hard to find when I do my own oil changes. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read somewhere that Mobil1 0w 40 was no longer recommended by Porsche. I've also heard that Royal Purple and Redline are good as well, so you seem to be on the right track.

you can order Motul 8100 xcess from turner motorsports really cheap

Spend some time on -> --> ---> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ <--- <-- <-

Flat6 Street Oil.

I'm in the school of Jim (1999porsche911).... 15w-50 for me. Only the best.... Yeah, best thing to do...is to pick one, and change often.

Oh goodie.... an oil thread. I like oil for its smooth quality, its ability to sooth and calm and above all I like a good oil after a heavy meal of IMS bearing. Castrol 5-50 summer 5-40 winter unless I come accross a sweet deal on Mobil then I use 0-40. I change at 2500-3500miles.....into a pumpkin

This is probably the hottest topic on forum, and a good topic to avoid! But since you asked and I believe a year ago I was at the same point you are I'll share what I've learned. I do not believe Mobil 1 is the best best oil available. But that being said I have talked to 2 different indy's who both recommend Mobil 1 for street use/ everyday driving. Also consider its Porsche's recommended oil. I believe Mobile 1 0w40 is probably the best oil they make. I also believe the oil should be changed every 5K miles or at least yearly! Both indy's also had different recommendations for track use one was Castrol 5w40 and I believe the other recommended redline. The important think to walk away with is oil cheep insurance change often.

Ok, back to serious time. Want to really blow your mind? Read this! :-) http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Here is a company that makes ZDDP and say we don't need it. Because contemporary engines with roller bearings no longer require the additional protection of Zinc and Phosphorus. Not true for classic cars, tractors, muscle cars, etc. Also removing the Zinc and Phosphorus from motor oil increases the life of the catalytic converter. But classic cars, tractors, etc., don’t have cats! Also, as part of its ongoing effort to reduce vehicle emissions, the EPA has mandated that emission systems must have a service life exceeding 120,000 miles. To achieve this, automotive manufacturers have required oil suppliers to remove additive packages from motor oils that could reduce emissions compliance. http://www.zddplus.com/

Redline 5w 40 ROLL CALL!

+1

motul 5W40 300V forget about the 8100XS... the 300V is way better... Castrol 5W50 and 5W40 are good as well

Mobil 1 5W50. Had to find, but you can get it. Call Petroliance [phone removed]. Change yearly or every 5-7,000 miles.

Whatever is on sale.

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Eddie, we haven't been selling it to the public, just to our engine purchasers and guys like you that ended up with a lot of our products and services.. Too many hassles and too many damn questions to sell retail. We worked with Lake Speed at Joe Gibbs Racing to perfect this formula for the M96 engine and it works damn good (as you know). Part of an engine development program includes an application specific engine oil known to perform. The good news is that Gibbs and I made a co-branding decision that they would sell the oil with our stamp of approval right on the bottles beginning in February of 2012.. I am doing some last minute tests on a 3,000 gallon batch right now. There are no kick backs or endorsements for us as part of this deal... We are just thankful that Lake and Joe Gibbs were willing to step up and share the expenses of making this oil with us.. I feel they should profit from this, because frankly all I give a damn about is having the oil for our engines in an unlimited supply.. Something we haven't had when doing smaller runs just for ourselves. Come february when you can buy it from any Gibbs retailer, don't ask your questions to me, because I won't be the guy that sold it to you! (see how that works? I have things to do, not questions to answer!!!LOL)

Amsoil 15/50 Dominator Racing changed every 800 track miles or so.

"Eddie, we haven't been selling it to the public, just to our engine purchasers and guys like you that ended up with a lot of our products and services.. Too many hassles and too many damn questions to sell retail." Cool

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+1! Only the best..... There are several quality botique motor oils available and on a street car it makes little difference which brand you use as long as it's NOT MOBIL1. Oh and unless you're on frozen tundra use 5-40 not 0-40...

Ltusler has the ONLY one of our engines on the street or track that doesn't use our oil and that was my decision. I was impressed with the internals of his engine that had broken and we kept him on that oil after our work was done.. The UOA we have carried out have been impressive for something thats not an application specific oil. Street cars do matter what oil is dumped into them as we are seeing more and more cam and lifter wear as the new oil formulations have time to make impacts on the engines. In times past we only saw impacts with cam and lifter combinations on vintage flat tappet equipped engines, but not anymore. As oils are modified further to enhance fuel economy and engine cleanliness as well as not to foul O2 sensors and catalytic converters the oils begin to fill more roles than just lubrication. Corvette owners are now starting to lose camshafts and that was unheard of just last year.

AMSOIL European formula In all my cars

I spent a lot of time as a newbie as well looking on these boards (and others) at the oil discussions. For everyday use you can find Mobil 1 at $5-$6/qt when its on sale - (0w40) - and it is widely available. I've yet to see a good argument as to why that doesn't work well. Porsche specs 15K change interval - many people on the boards do at 5K "as cheap insurance" - so won't argue with that. If you are racing - there maybe other options - but for normal street use - I think M1 with more frequent changes is the way to go .... (i'm going to do oil analysis with my first change and see what Blackstone says)

A oil question post ! Brilliant idea !!!

I just want to stir the pot a little so here goes: Redline makes Engine oil Break-In additive that's concentrated ZDDP and phosphorus. Comes in a 16 oz bottle so you can increase your oil's zn/phosphorus content to your heart's delight. 16oz/10 qts oil= increase of 1104 ppm, 8oz/10qts= increase of 690 ppm. This is not snake oil but the real deal. Use caution. More is not always better and I'm afraid to second guess the manufacture's chemists. I'll just wait for the Joe Gibbs oil in Feb. for my Porsche. On the other hand, I'm seriously considering using a little (4 oz) in my 20 yr old Mercedes and 25 yr old Ford pickup.

I am with Danica on this one..

Yep, definitely with Danica too... Peak motor oil is the best ever. (wait, am I missing something here errrr uhhhh )

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Why use any additive in your 20 yr old Mercedes or 25 yr old Ford pickup when for 20 and 25 yrs both vehicles' engines appear to not have suffered any from the treatment/oil that you have given them over that time. However you are treating them, whatever oil you are using, whatever you are doing, seems to be working just fine. As for using an break in additive, AFAIK Porsche does not recognize the need for any additive, at any time. I can think of another argument against using an additive at break in, especially one that has a high ZDDP content. New engines can use oil and of course this oil ends up flowing with exhaust gases past/over the O2 sensors and on into the converters, where that ZDDP can do its dirty business. One then uses an additive that not only does not appear to be needed -- so many of these cars have managed to make it through break in just fine sans any additive -- but which also subjects the sensors and converters to exposure Porsche (and other automakers) have recognized as harmful the O2 sensors and converters. Instead, buy lottery tickets with the money you would have spent on the oil additive. The odds are better you'll recognize something from the ticket purchase compared to the additive purchase/use. Sincerely, Macster.

I use 5W40 Total Quartz. Very good oil from all the researching I did before I put it in. Most important thing here is the climate, and the more frequent change intervals.

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Isn't that Ashley? I don't think Ashley cares too muck about the oil in her car, after all the engine gets a teardown and rebuild every 4 seconds.

http://www.insideline.com/features/a...ag-racing.html Definitely not Danica. Way to go derail an oil thread!

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According to the API there is never a "best time" to apply an aftermarket oil additive. Doing so impacts the critical balance between the detergency and anti-wear packages within the oil. When this happens the entire formulation is thrown out the window.

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I suppose since this is the oil thread de' jour... Not additive specific, but sorta related, I think I remember reading Jake was going to post some pics from a factory crate engine that was broken in using Mobil 1 0w40 (and probably broken in according to the owners manual guidelines). ( running... I'll take my answer offline )

RE zink additive: Thanks guys. I tend to over think this stuff some times. I'll stick with Delo 15W-40 in these old gasers and be content with the zink and phosphorus content. It's been working for a long time. I just started to worry after learning that the formula of this oil is changed. MB= 200k and only has had valve stem seals.

mobil 1

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A high performance engine mag (all brands of USA engines covered) -- the name of the mag escapes me since it has been awhile (since I traded in my 06 GTO with its 6.0L V8 and stopped following USA engine news) -- reported that cam/lifter failures come and go and most are the result of crummy lifters and camshaft metalurgy. Teh parts (imported for the most part) are just not very good. Further, testing found in some cases that air was getting into the oil at high rpm and affecting lifter action from the air in the oil. How the bearings managed to live I do not know. Sincerely, Macster.

For all you additive junkies out there. To be safe start with an SA pure oil and add to it what ever you like. I'd keep the additives at or less than 5% of the whole mix so you don't start destroying the lubricating properties of the base oil. Let us know how well it does in your $20-$60k Porsche motor.

Good, I'm in the right area. What oils should I use for this thing.

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I use CLP on all my AKs, but just leave the action dry... My Draco has 20,000 rounds fired through it and it has never been cleaned. Here is what I had out today to spend some time cleaning :-)

I use Lubro Moly. http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...cument&land=US You can get at your local NAPA.

What's a good oil weight to use in the RI/MA area this time of year for an M96 engine? I'm going to change the oil in about 2 weeks and then store the car most of the winter except for weekend warm-up runs when there is no snow on the ground. Try and keep the tires from flatspotting and keeping the juices flowing whenever the weather permits. I wish I had power in my storage unit for a battery tender.

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I'd say a 5W50 Mobil 1 is good-to-go. Best not to start it during hibernation.

All around warm weather here in South FL, I go with Pentosin 5W40 (full synth) in both cars, DD, no storage, no tender.

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Naaaa, I would take her out for a good long drive every now and then. Just don't start it and let it idle for very long or take it out without getting it up to temp. I've driven mine all year long, in temps down to the teens without ever worrying about it.

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I became curious what Redline would say about using their additive to increase the level of zn and phosphorus so I emailed them. Redline advised against using their additive and that the oil I've been using is adequate.

Wow,what a great idea,this would be "The" place to ask a oil question ! Surely no one has thought it before !!!!

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I had my IMSR as well as other work done @ Flat 6, and Jake mentioned he is not a fan of Mobile 1 oil. I am no oil expert, but I will take his opinion as if he wrote the book on M96 engines (from what I heard this book is actually a work in progress - can't wait for it to be published Jake!) I'll see what is in stock at the local stores and go from there. Thanks.

Imagine a newbie coming here and looking at this thread. They would be confused to ****s! Almost everyone here mentioned a different grade/type of oil!

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And that's how it should be....

I am the newbie who posted this question in the first place. And it is confusing. (Especially since I am a first time Porsche owner) To all of you guys with replies of absolutely no value or just plain smart *** remarks, you could be using your time and typing skills to doing something more productive, so thank you very little. (but the hot chicks are great) Everyone else, thank you for all of your input, and I definitely have narrowed it down to about 6 choices, Mobil 1 not being one of them. (thanks Jake)

What are the 6 choices?

LN recommends the Motul 8100 5w-40. It is Porsche approved and that is what I am planning to use in my next oil change in a couple of weeks.

I have been using Royal Purple oils. Last year I ran 10w40 for 7500 miles and then sent in a sample to Blackstone lab. My report came back suggesting I could of ran the oil an additional 2500 miles. This winter I have changed to 0w40. Last year I ran in multiple autocrosses and 1 autocross drivers school. My 996 is showing just over 130,000 miles. I think the engine was replaced at about 60K. I normally drive her like I stole her.

My 7 choices are: all 5w40 Not in any order of preference yet) Motul 8100, Lubro Moly, Royal Purple, Redline, Fuchs Titan Supersyn, Total Quartz and Amsoil.

Sorry for adding to the certified "Mass" confusion of this thread but, Nobody has mentioned Shell Rotella-T 5W-40 Full Syn. Is it NOT P-car approved? I want to protect her vitals as best I can. What specifications do I need to make sure it adheres to? What is A40 approved? I have used Rotella -T 5W-40 Full Synthetic in My Road Race bikes for years and after racking up more than 10k track miles at double the RPMs our P-cars put out, my engine builder was blown away with the lack of wear my engine showed. He was especially impressed that there was NO RIDGE in the cylinder walls. I have also run it in an Avalanche and now a 1500 Ram with the hemi without any issues. I am def not an engineer so if any of you engineering types can decipher any information in this entire thread and put it in laymens terms I'm sure a bunch of us average folks would greatly appreciate it What I have learned from this thread so far? Stay away from Mobil 1... This is still a GREAT thread IMO

Pentosin 5W40

Interested to know more thoughts on the Rotella T6 as well, since that is what I've run in my Audis. The Rotella is engineered specifically for high-temp turbocharged engines (diesel trucks to be exact), so I see no reason it wouldn't be a great choice for these cars as well.

I use Rotella T6 in our Saab turbo...just replaced the VCG last weekend @114k miles and the top of the engine looked like new...interesting on thoughts for the M96 with that oil, especially since it is quite a bit cheaper than the Motul 8100 I use now

I'm going to use it when I change my oil next, I'll let you know if the engine magically explodes.

The best oil is the one you change frequently I use Mobil 1 5-40 and change every 5k miles or less.

SYNTHETIC or the same as this plane that went just under redline engine and airspeed for a very long distance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln-JFYNp5Pk

OH yah, it's not just the oil but the oil is a very important part. Along with proper oil you must adhere to the importance of proper engine warm up before hammer time or letting the dogs loose however you view it.

To be honest the oil info on the LN Engineering website is quite informative.. Very long read but def some good info in there!

Uh, if you "learned" to stay away from Mobil 1 0w-40 oil, an approved oil, and instead opt to use a non-approved oil, you haven't learn anything. This winter I've been running Mobil 1 0w-40 in both my 03 Turbo (now with just under 85K miles on its engine) and my 02 Boxster (now with over 248K miles on its engine) and neither engine has given any indication the oil is not up to par. Just drove the Turbo 5K miles and oil consumption was about 2 bars over the 5K miles. About the same as it has been now for oil change after oil change. Oil pressure remained quite good at hot idle and at higher engine speeds. Watched the oil drain from the engine/tank and the oil had a bit of transparency to it still. Doesn't bother me. I prefer to change the oil before it is due not after... All I'm going to do come warmer weather is switch back to Mobil 1 5w-50 oil for both engines. Sincerely, Macster.

Every P-car owner is free to do what he/she wishes with car maintenance, of course, but after owning four 911s (I still miss that '80 911 SC) and being an active PCA member for 40 years, I am convinced that factory recommendations are pretty sound. Oil? Mobil 1; there is no substitute. relinuca

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I was getting the creamy butter you so excellently describe in the oil filler tube when I was using Mobil 1 full synthetic 5W 40W so I changed to Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40W full 100% Synthetic. The reason I changed was from reading these forums but one main reason was after speaking with a Porsche Mechanic who advised me to get away from Mobil and to use oils being used in Europe. One being Motul.. I found Wayne from Pelican parts pushing the same oil on one of his postings and that made my mind up for me. By the way no matter how many thousands of miles an oil company say their oil will last, I will change my oil at 5000 miles no matter what. Peace of mind has no price tag.

I got my first oil change done at German Performance in Boston today. ( it's my first time it hasn't been done at the dealer ) He uses Motul exclusively and he is an avid racer And the shop caters a lot to local racers http://www.germanperformanceservice.com/ He was crew chief on the 2010 American Le Mans Series GTC championship with Porsche Black Swan Racing drivers, Tim Pappas, Jeroen Bleekemolen, and Sebastiaan Bleekemolen. He basically said Mobil 1 is fine - its just not what he uses in his cars. Dealer charges $325 for a Mobil 1. He charged me $170 for the motul

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Sorry if someone already said this... it's a long thread. As long as you're using something Porsche approved, I don't think the kind of oil you use matters nearly as much as how often you change it.

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if your tracking mobil 1 is crap... I use Castrol 5W50 and UOA's show good results... I also tried Motul 300v 5W40 and UOA was slightly better than the above even though it was a lesser weight... Amsoil is *very* good also.... Amsoil Dominator 15W50 is suppose to be awesome for heavily tracked cars... cannot recommend mobil 1 at all.. not one bit...

I just save the used oil from our fish fries. It works pretty good, but don't try to get more than 2000 miles out of it. Also, be sure to strain it first. Fish bones play hell with the valves. Don't ask me how I know.

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It's the calcium deposits that form on the valves that really heats up the spots the calcium is stuck to. Once a bone gets burned on it just fries down to nothing but calcium and then it really burns the valves. That's why I use shark oil. Some guy tried to convince me to use snake oil but no way with the way they have bones instead of cartilage like the sharks do. It's almost like sharks were put on this earth for porsche's and japanese zero's it works so good.

Ever since dealing with Jake @ Flat 6 - he said he is not a fan of Mobile 1 at all - something about low ZDDP additives. I just bought $126 worth of Motul 8100 on Amazon, and 2 MANN filters. I am going to attempt my first 996 oil change this spring. I'll have to look for the best DIY 996 oil change thread, unless someone has it handy and wishes to PM or post it for me. I forgot to buy crush washers for the oil plug though - I'll get a couple at the dealer or Pelican. I picked up a LNE magnetic plug while Jake was doing my IMSR service and other preventative stuff too. I have 1000 miles on it since the IMSR service last July.

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http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutor...-instructions/

^^ Awesome, thanks much! Looks like a great page. Bookmarked for when it's time..... Thanks again!

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You will enjoy the oil change. It is a very easy DIY and takes an hour or less depending on how many beers.

I just got a free oil and coolant change from the dealership. Well it was after the 1,000 mile break in of the new engine so I guess I paid for it already. Went to the dealerships 991 introduction tonight and noticed the rear deck of the engine compartment has a Mobile 1 oil sticker on it. I thought porsche last year put out mobile 1 is no longer the suggested oil but whatevers must be the sceme of things.

I want to see more research specifically scientific data I can use to compare the chemistry of brands and types. The problem I see with the entire oil discussion debates is everyone is shooting from the hip with their own personal opinions with no valid scientific analysis to back it up. Joe Gibbs racing oil may be a great independent boutique oil with tons more zinc and other wear additives but vs a well-established company that has decades of chemists engineers research? I’m not sure. I see people comment they feel their engine runs smoother with oil B vs oil A but how can you really back that up? Feel to me is emotional. The question begs an answer, from a mechanical engineering point, how much ZDDP and other additives need to be in the oil to be better? More is always the answer right? How thick should the oil be at normal operating temps and at startup? It is well established that cold startup flow is as critical as normal operating temp viscosity given that the thin film of oil is the divide between metal to metal contact. 15w-50 over 0w-40? Many have commented that they can hear tappet noise at startup with with thicker oil which also may indicate other moving parts aren't receiving oil for the first few seconds at startup. I have read articles that say we need to move away from oils such a Mobil 1 and that they could be the cause for the 996/997 failures. Now for the record, I am in no way affiliated with Exxon-Mobil. I believe the key issue needs to stay in focus is the 996/997 IMS bearing and cylinder failures are the result of poor engineering choices in design and manufacturing issues within Porsche. Need more proof? The same 996 years turbo (Mezger) engine used a completely different designed internal plain IMS oil feed bearing and have not been plagued with IMS failures. Now why is it that Porsche choose not to use the same sealed roller bearing design in the turbo? Hmmm. Even more confusing is the fact that some cars go 100k plus on the original sealed IMS bearing and some failed at 30k. Now, several companies are at war trying to disprove the others IMS retrofit redesign. Ball vs roller. Oil fed or not. Ceramic vs oem style. If you do tons of research you will find even the retrofit IMS has also has suffered from premature wear and failures. Being a long time 928 owner. After tons of research, I finally purchased what I consider to be great 1999 (dual row IMS) 996 C2 from a private owner with the understanding that the design is poor from the beginning and at best, the retrofits will reduce and not completely remove the potential for full catastrophic engine failure. Maybe the oil debate is one for Myth Busters?

Gibbs Driven oil is formulated by Lubrizol.... One of 4 companies in the world that create additive packages for all oil companies. Do some research on Lubrizol.

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Just so I understand, Lubrizol formulated DT40 or provided additive pack for DT40? Please clarify. Cheers, =L=

I believe JR has been pretty clear on this matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDYjSSiQdkU

For the few who have a technical ,rather than emotional interest in this subject, there is data showing the inferiority of Mobil 1 compared to JGDT40. Since this comparison was done the JGDT40 formulation may have been further improved Just scroll down to the bottom of this page: http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...087230094.html There are lots of oils with high ZDDP. Excessive ZDDP will 'poison' the cats. So 'more is better' has limits.For example, Mobil 1 5-40"Turbo Diesel"has more ZDDP than regular Mobil 1. The question is the balance in the additive package. I linked an old comparative list some time ago from BITOG for film strength and ZDDP. Motorcraft 5-50 was surprisingly good in that comparison JGibbs was included in the list. But there is way more to the issue than just two factors in the additive package. 11. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi zinc = 1252 ppm phos = 1197 ppm ZDDP = 1200 ppm 8. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi zinc = 1247 ppm phos = 1137 ppm ZDDP = 1100 ppm 3. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi zinc = 1472 ppm phos = 1544 ppm ZDDP = 1500 ppm For the oil Geeks only: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836 http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/powers~1.htm http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/255/oil-foam http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

I gathered all my own data. I believe nothing of what I hear, and only 1/2 of what I see. That said, Lubrizol makes the additive packages and formulates the Driven oils, just like they do for the US Military. Warren Buffet owns Lubrizol, pretty much all development is done with an open checkbook. The amount of Engineers on staff doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

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Did u notice a difference in the car's performance switching to the Motul?

What about Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40? Typical Properties Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 SAE Grade 5W-40 Viscosity, ASTM D 445 cSt @ 40�C 102 cSt @ 100�C 14.8 Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 151 Phosphorus 1130 Zinc 1250 Mobil's site states it's approved for use in gasoline engines: Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck also meets the API SM specification for gasoline engines used in mixed fleets. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...uck_5W-40.aspx The advantage? Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 can be purchased at Walmart in 5 qt. containers @ $26.00. Regarding the oil discussions, weather it's Joe Gibbs, Motul, Mobil 1, etc. neither will solve the IMS, cylinder, or other design and manufacturing issues. If anyone can conclusively prove the Porsche recommended fill was the direct cause of any of these failures, I would be extremely impressed. I've ran Mobil both conventional and synthetic in our daily drivers for two decades including BMW and Acura well over 300k and all were running perfect with no engine failures. Of course neither of these have really been known to struggle with engine design (just minor things like rear sub frames falling out on e46 M3's ). In regards to the 996\997 IMS failures, while it is true that the same sealed ball bearing design gives long reliable service life on all four corners, it’s out of its element in an internal engine environment exposed to constant hot acidic oil while trying to maintain its own internal lubricant. Again, bad choices on Porsches part or they would still be using it today. Even with all this, I still love my 996. She just needs a bit more attention.

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https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAd...CEA-E7-12.html

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I remember reading somewhere that diesel oils have more detergent in them which is more important to a diesel engine than a gas engine. Diesel fuel inherently is more oily. The detergent impacts cylinder coating - capillary action or density - of the oil and can be more harmful in the long run than an oil designed for a gas engine. I have switched to JG DT40 for all the reasons explained so far.

I would generally agree with most diesel oils are not suitable for gasoline engines however Mobil clearly defines this as "meets the API SM specification for gasoline engines used in mixed fleets".

Ever seen a 7,000 RPM capable diesel engine before? I've done a lot with diesel oils, for diesel applications. I am currently doing a ton of testing with the Driven DP40 Turbo diesel oil, in my loader, my Deutz tractor, my Duramax diesel GMC 2500 and my M923A2 5 ton military truck. The Deutz has almost 400 hours on the same service fill, and has only consumed 2 quarts the entire time. Last week I cut 40 acres with it in 95 degree heat, which is pretty tough for an aircooled 50HP diesel engine, running it wide open throttle for 12 solid hours. Most diesel oils have very little inhibitors that fight aeration. Run a diesel oil hard, at high RPM for a couple of minutes (in a gas engine), and drain the oil immediately. You'll think its a German Beer, rather than engine oil.... I have seen the "head" of foam be 4" high with some diesel oils when used in these engines and the oil was quickly drained. Diesel oils changed dramatically in 2007, when the sulfur level of fuel changed, and thats when a lot of diesel engines started using diesel exhaust fluid, and some saw catalytic converters. It astonishes me how people will try to outsmart the problem, and spend more time and effort to use the WRONG thing for the application, rather than just buying the proper oil. Its funny when someone spends more money than they try to save by having some convoluted idea. I have an engine here now that failed due to a polymer conflict between 2 different oils that created hard crystallized material to form in the oil sump, which blocked the oil pick up tube and shut off oil flow to a point where it tossed a connecting rod. That guy didn't listen, even when he was directed to specifically not do exactly what he did. No, that wasn't a Gibbs oil that was used. I am packing it up and sending it home to him, because he thinks he's smarter than anyone else, and he won't listen to me either. We'll see how far he gets with his repair, I bet he gives up after two days. I won't deal with a person like this; because he'll always screw with something, and its easier to be a victim, than a failure. I haven't paid ANY attention to API ratings in at least the last decade. Once I learned how the ratings are determined, it was just a big joke. Thats pretty much the case with every rating, certification or "recommended" item.

Since we're talking about lubrication what about the best manual transmission oil. I use Liqui Moly 75W-90 GL-5. Wondering if the 75W-140 or a mix of the 90 and 140 would be most effective? Cheers

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Covered extensively: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...cant-data.html My recommendation would be to avoid concoctions of any sort. I know of at least one Subaru forum that highly recommends all sorts of "blends" (Scotty's Cocktail IIRC). And I speak from past experience. My winter DD is a WRX. LM 75W-90 GL-5 is allright, there are however better suited fluids. See the link above. Cheers, =L=

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I have much respect for Flat6 Innovations and the solutions you have provided however you are also in the business of selling and promoting the products you sell and the companies you’ve worked with, correct? Nothing wrong with that. “It astonishes me how people will try to outsmart the problem, and spend more time and effort to use the WRONG thing for the application” We are all just trying to determine the best products for our cars. I trust no ones word and do my own research while trying to keep an open mind. No one and no one product is perfect. Even the ceramic hybrid IMS retrofit has raised questions since there have been a few, well documented failures and earlier than anticipated premature wear. Again, I am asking that that there be conclusive proof that oil, specifically the Porsche recommended factory fill, caused all the 996\997 engine failures. The 5w40TD chemical makeup is likely the same chemistry as 0w40 Euro formula minus the viscosity difference and slightly higher ZDDP package. I was going to contact the Mobil help desk for clarification but of course no matter what is said, they still will not be trusted to their word, correct? As to be expected, as with any large successful company, there will always be some trying to knock them down. After all, what in the world could Exxon-Mobil know about synthetic motor oil anyway? What would they care if engines, such as in Porsche, BMW and Mercedes Benz AMG prematurely fail or wear due to their products? So I ask, if I buy oil which has the nearly the same ZDDP at $139.00 plus, you can guarantee I will see less wear and failures than using Mobil 1? By the way, for anyone interested -40 Mobil 1 Amsoil Royal Purple comparison - YouTube Remember, boutique brands such as Amsoil and Royal Purple have been trying to knock Mobil off the pedestal for decades to gain market share. Which would you rather have in your Porsche on a colder day? Mobil has more hard research in their synthetic oil chemistry than any other company and there are many more complicated factors involved in the chemistry. I have no problem paying more for a product if it's proven to be worth the added cost.

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Just substitute quick turnaround with global availability. In fact, based on my real world data I would rather use a specific Amsoil than its Mobil counterpart. Have fun getting that info from Mobil. I'll be happy to see their comments.

A question I have is (and I can't believe I'm posting in an oil thread YAY!) if the OP is asking what is the best oil, 1) why is the OP clearly touting M1 and 2) did the OP try to turn this into an IMS thread? The best thing about M1 is when your making sandwiches and you run out of butter just go out to the garage and scoop some out of your oil fill tube.

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+996

Ahh!! Are we going for kill yet? Again, I am in no way affiliated with Exxon-Mobil or any other company for that fact. I am just a P-car enthusiast such as your selves trying to weed through the information. The reason I am referencing the IMS bearing and oil tougher is commonly, when these car's engines have grenaded, oil is often the first suspect.

Blah blah blah blah Porsche blah blah blah Mobil 1 blah blah blah Wal-Mart 5 quart jugs blah blah blah 134,000 miles blah blah blah Mobil 1....

Oh yeah...and I have Michelin's too! What a renegade....

Frog Lube (j/k, I use Mobil 1 0w-40 in both beasts) The Jeeps have been feeding on Royal Purple ever since a buddy gave me a few cases.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/750x508/no_no_no_92423a26b12f8b8a8826597547e0cbe333542a7b.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/201x250/ignorant_31563ae4fe2700c0f8e79b9d831c6e2ffbe63b07.jpg

This is so odd. The answer to the original question requires an optimal balance of several critical factors.Some are: 1. anti-Foaming 2 Kinematic viscosity 3. ZDDP 4. Shear All the factors are mentioned or linked in this Thread. Some are described in detail like Foaming/detergent: 'Most diesel oils have very little inhibitors that fight aeration. Run a diesel oil hard, at high RPM for a couple of minutes (in a gas engine), and drain the oil immediately. You'll think its a German Beer, rather than engine oil.... I have seen the "head" of foam be 4" high with some diesel oils when used in these engines and the oil was quickly drained.' And there are multiple tech references to the foaming issue and to oils with high anti foam additive packages. Despite all this, people mutter about single factors, give emotional,circumstantial,unvalidated ,anecdotal ,non-analytical responses. Further ,they dicker with sincere, good advice from well qualified sources(JR). Human nature bewilders me sometimes. For the keyboard tribologists, there is an on-line exam . Taking the exam may help some of those who pontificate? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-final-exam/

You would have to be fairly ignorant or just plain dumb to discount everything JR has posted elsewhere and here about oil for the M96. Especially the poster who had JR do his IMSB. You know what oil he refilled your crankcase with, right? Yet your going to change brands on your first DIY oil change? Some people just don't listen. To those who enjoy being behind the curve instead of in front of it; enjoy your 0-40 M1 and your blown M96.

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Speaking of ignorant...

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Incorrect. There's only one product that can be bought at Flat 6 Innovations, and that's a complete, turn key engine that's fully reconstructed. You will not find one product for sale at our facility, or on the website. If you click the "parts" tab, it'll take you to a 404 error. Why don't we sell products? Because of this very sort of attitude among purchasers that's quoted above. We are engine builders and developers- anybody can sell parts. I don't give a damn what you buy, or where it's bought. I'm done here for a while, one day I'll learn my lesson. Even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if he kept his mouth shut...

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Alright let's start the RL betting pool on when he'll be back.

Just to be clear, I've never had any work done by JR at Flat 6 Innovations. Having owned many German cars including few mark 1 928's, I've always done all my own work however if I ever needed a full engine or rebuild, I would not hesitate to use JR at Flat6 as they seem to do excellent work.

Waltheisenberg, Many of us have benefited from a lot of free help from Jake. Nobody I know from any Forum has contributed more to solving the many issues of the M96 engine than Jake. I have bought nothing from him.Probably never will.He knows that .Despite that he offered me a free loan of a prototype tool to solve my problem.That was a year ago. If someone like you with merely 6 posts misrepresents Jake and he leaves the Forum ,you've stuck the rest of us with a rotten deal. Please debate Jake on facts and knowledge. But please don't insult his honesty,sincerity nor the nature of his business.You clearly know nothing of those issues,yet you dismissively insult him . We need Jake here way more than some new member like you who ignores our advice and insults others. I politely suggest you contact Jake directly ,withdraw your gratuitously untrue comment about him and his business.

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^Dude!^ Seriously? Jake can take it - he's a hard a-s-s-e-d Marine for God's sake! This is an internet forum after all...you have to take the good with the bad Jeezzzzz

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X2. You're always gonna have fanboys, haters, and some in between. Jake coming on here is a balance of knowledge, marketing, awareness, self promotion. It works both ways. Some people here need him as much as he needs us. All his products that were developed wouldn't have gotten the amount of exposure without the Internet or the paranoia of the forums IMO. Some people act like he's the only one that knows about these engines only because he's one of the few that interacts on forums. For the most part, the only people that I see directly benefitting from his knowledge are the ones that have or will encounter engine issues. For others, this info may never really matter and may induce more worrying than anything else as already proven on these forums.

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Schnell, I honestly really never intended to insult or hurt anyone’s feelings as this not my way. We are all here to help each other out with ideas and solutions. After JR’s last comment yesterday, I did re-check my posts to ensure I wasn’t personally stepping on anyone’s toes and I never really pointed any negativity to JR’s knowledge or abilities. Just questions. He basically answered my questions on his last post and I am fine with that. As a matter of fact, I am now considering his oil recommendations to add in to my selection mix. Being a bit harder to obtain when you need it rather than going to a local auto parts store which is really not a big issue, just have to pre-order ahead of time. I was merely adding possible options for everyone to mull over and many chimed in which is great. I also wanted to shore up with my last comment and I stand behind the statement that I would exclusively contact JR at Flat6 for any work I didn't want to handle myself without hesitation. We all have knowledge and experience to bring to the boards. I'm 150% sure I am no where near knowledgeable as Jake however I have done all my own work including a 2 full engine rebuilds (minus block and head machining), one being on my current 79 4.5L 928 K jetronic which I also replaced the synchros (known issue with early models) with new limited slip plates. So far the engine hasn't fallen out yet

Walt, Re-read post 115.That is the issue,not your 'synchros'. You inferred Jake was promoting a product and thereby deceiving the Forum for his own benefit.Untrue. He does not sell oil,nor any parts ! Nevertheless, Jake has 2500+ posts most of which are freely helping,informing and sharing his hard-won knowledge.

I don't think that if you agree with Jake you should be referred to as a FANBOY. In my opinion you should be referred to as a COMMON SENSE boy.

Thanks JD. IMHO the issue is a gratuitous dismissal of Jake's comments as being for commercial gain. I f that were the case we should all be petitioning for him to be banned. According to Rennlist rules promoting your own products gets you severely sanctioned.We had such a case recently with "Scot". In truth Jake has no direct financial gain from recommending a product he does not sell.He buys it. I am ardently in favor of debating Jake and many done so. And we all learned from the debate.That is the value of Rennlist. But for a Noob to slime Jake's honesty in answering the noob's first question on the Forum is repugnant to me,and evidently a few others .

Schnell, really?? I had no idea the man’s feelings got offended that easily. It also doesn’t look good from a business perspective to threaten to leave the boards of current and potentially future customers because someone new is asking uncountable questions. A simple yes or no to my comment would have sufficed and then move on. Don’t fear though, I’m sure he is human and will be back after a chill. After all, he has the passion right? On the oil topic, I still stand by my original point which still remains unproven. Run any recommended Porsche approve oil you like, even ones costing twice as much and you still will not have ANY added guarantee against engine failure or wear in your 996. If it makes one feel better spending more for a similar product and they can sleep better at night because of it, godspeed. Just understand you cannot completely overcome periods of bad design and manufacturing in any car company. You just do the best you can do to work with them. I’ve seen comments “Run M1 0w40 and blow your engine” REALLY? What proof do theses people have to back that statement up? Are they just trying to look cool by the comment or be constructive? If this reckless statement were true, all the other auto makers that endorse M1, and there are many, would be reporting the similar oil related catastrophic failures. Again, to point to M1 as the cause of any failures is so far UNPROVEN and plain reckless! To be honest, you will never normally find me on any boards until now. I realize to everyone I am out of place by challenging the established by asking them to prove their case to new and potential customers who makes them and others uncomfortable. Again, I though I pretty much cleared up my comments in my last few posts. Never be afraid to ask questions, even to the well established. Their actions reflect character. I'll do everyone a favor and go away like JR. I can find better things to do like, oh ya, I really do need to change my oil today ; )

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Wealtheisenberg, Don't go away, I don't think that is what anyone wants. Also don't worry about Jakes feeling, he can handle anything a forum post throws at him. In Jakes case its just frustration as no matter how many times he explains that he does not profit from the sales of products he recommends many people still say that is what he does and infer that is the reason why he is here. He does profit from posting his comments because some here begin to realize he is probably the most knowledgeable person on this and so if they opt for a quality rebuild and can afford his price he has a good chance of getting the job and making a profit. He has helped many on here with their problems absolutely free and plenty of us do appreciate it. I know Jake just good enough to know that he will only tell the truth as he knows it and that money is not the driving force in his life. Some of us stick up for him as we feel he gets things said about him that isn't right and he rarely comes on here to get in a pissing match with anybody. I see many on here that seem to hate it if we agree with him and would seem to be happy if he never comes back. Forums are like that, different personalities show through time after time until we know what to expect before we finish reading the post. If you do leave I hope its because you have better things to do, we do have some great hot chick pictures posted here but alas they are just pictures.

This isn't about "feelings". It is about honesty.Peculiar to confuse that with irrelevant comments.

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It�s cool. And I get it. Funny, on a lighter note, the great oil debate will go on for ever it seems. It also transcends too many other realms. In my early-mid 40�s I became addicted yet to another, overly expensive hobby, mechanical watches. Mainly the vintage R ones. When it comes time for the regular service cleaning, you should see all the hot debates of which type of oil and what brand to use and where in the world it comes from. It�s exactly the same and just as passionate.

Waltheisenberg, Off topic but I also like mechanical watches. I am a Grand Seiko fan and have the first they ever made and many others. I just like mechanical stuff and have motorcycles and old cars. Used to have a couple of Cessna 170 airplanes and even a few boats. The Porsche is a great mechanical marvel in its own way. If you want to talk watches send me a PM. JD

Nothing pisses me off more than someone insinuating that I do something, or use something for monetary gain, over performance. I can have a wonderful day and someone that has no clue about what I do, or how I do it, can ruin that with one sentence. Some TRY to do it, because one ma's pain is another man's pleasure. Thats society today,and especially on forums, and even more so when someone is successful. No time in recent history was worse than the big recession, as my business BOOMED and grew by hundreds of percent, while lots of people lost their jobs and businesses. That was a horrific time for so many, and the last thing they needed was an engine failure to deal with, but don't shoot me for doing what no one else wanted to do at the time, and the foresight that others didn't have. That said, I go out of my way NOT to sell anything other than an engine. I develop things and give them, or sell them to others just because I don't want to deal with the BS associated with retail business today. Hell, I don't even sell engine oil to customers that buy my engines, I GIVE IT TO THEM while the engine is under warranty! After that, I tell them to buy it at Amazon. I develop these things so I will always have them for my engines, and often I buy the completed products from those who were chosen to manufacture them, hence my LN Engineering relationship, that started 16 years ago with 2 college kids. There's so many products that I could sell, but I don't, because of all the reasons I posted above. As these cars fall into the hands of enthusiasts more and more we don't have a way to get these things, and others into those hands without direct interface with the buyer, which I simply refuse to do in today's world. This is sad, because it limits things all around, for everyone. Thats more my fault than anyone, but its required, because one pissed off guy on a forum that buys something can waste years of our time. At least with engines I can pre- qualify the buyer and understand if I can meet, or exceed his expectations, because I deal directly with him. Thats not possible at the retail level, and thats why I closed my store years ago, and sold my retail business for aircooled parts to LN Engineering. I haven't even been selling our used parts, or etc on eBay, I have been throwing them away, because I couldn't stand the risks associated with selling them, even at cheap prices. I tear down perfectly good running engines rather than selling them, because selling a used, running engine is a liability. There's a huge business that could be tapped into by someone if they wanted to deal with the BS associated with selling what we create to the enthusiasts level, because I tell 20 people per day "no" when they try to buy something from us. I won't even refer someone to where it can be bought, because thats also considered the same as selling it, and I get a finger pointed for that, too. I have had my 2nd half 2015 class schedule done for months, but I don't even want to post that, because of the BS associated with "selling" classes. Luckily we don't have to try to fill classes, and I only do them to have fun. Overtime I sit down to make a commercial post here about the classes I write the damn thing, and then delete it because I ask myself "what **** storm will this start? Damn, I don't have time for that today." So, needless to say, when I go to these extents NOT to have issues and NOT to have people say that we only use, or recommend something for monetary reasons, I get really pissed off, really quick. You could talk about my momma (who I lost at age 14) and I'd probably not get pissed off as quick. The amount of Engineers on staff at me company doesn't impress me a damn bit. What does impress me is when those who are on the developmental team will take the time to feed the specific application what it wants. Honing that as fuels change and engines change is even better. Who would guess that a DFI engine would optimize with a different oil than a port injected engine? Well, thats what we are currently developing, that no one else is. The big names won't talk about it, because if they did, it would be admission of an issue that their generic, "one size fits all" oil won't do. BTW- I don't hate Mobil 1. I love it. I really, really, really love it, with hugs and kisses on top. No, I didn't leave RL, and I probably never will entirely. I said that I needed a break, and I took one for a day, so I could finish the M96 engine with the largest bore in the world....Finally something that takes way too much effort and cost for others to copy. They'll always have to wonder about how it has been done, but they never will figure it out.

The offender was a noob that you tried to help -several times ! Most of the regulars here know your credentials and respect them accordingly. Please ignore the rude and ignorant Posters. I wish the Mods. were more active in such matters .Rude/ignorant/off-topic posts devalue the reputation of this fine Forum. I participate on another unrelated Forum where the Mods just delete/edit all the nonsense out.Makes for a wonderfully efficient resource - and very much more valuable to the Forum owners too .Sponsors hate the negative junk too. Those of us who have attempted major work on a failed M96 engine need your input because frankly there is no other source who volunteers so much reliable information on the really complex issues. Until someone else steps up to offer such advice, we need you more than you need us. Good for noobs to know that ? Thanks for contributing over 2500 posts.

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What sucks, is I really enjoy forum posting. I started way back when these forums were email newsgroups and things were a lot different back then. People were hungry for info and they didn't feel so entitled, and they certainly weren't so bitchy. The vast majority are wonderful, appreciative people, but like a rotten apple, just one can ruin a whole bushel.

FYI the Rules according to RennList(not me): Zero Tolerance In the Forums There is now a zero-tolerance policy in effect for harassment and off-topic bickering in the Forums. It’s fine to “disagree”. It’s fine to debate. It is fine to argue in a mature manner. It is NOT fine to cast third-party suspicions, as a 3rd party or competing supplier - calling a vendor “shady”, and/or slandering a supplier or person in any public forum. Rennlist is certainly no exception. So – here is some advice… If you are thinking about posting a reply which you wonder “will John D. ban me for this?” – presume the answer is YES – and don’t post it. If someone is harassing you in technical threads report them and never respond to them. If you participate even to defend yourself you are part of the problem and are just as guilty. This is your only warning. If you participate in off-topic bickering, slander or harassment in the technical forums you will be banned from Rennlist.com Let’s keep the Forums technical. John D.

Here we go again...Deja vu

Time for ( . )( . )?

"BTW- I don't hate Mobil 1. I love it. I really, really, really love it, with hugs and kisses on top". You do provide service and rebuilds correct? I�d hate to have you rebuild my engine and have to deal with you on any oversight. You come off as very immature for a business owner. You�re not the first and only guy out there who jumped on the 996 failures when they first surfaced. To the other guy that kisses the ground you walk on, give me your address and I'll send you the remainder of my wife's Midol. You sound like you need it more than her. I checked the posts you were about and I never seen any direct insult to anyone. Get a life please!

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Or Vu dega? Where's the other guy? Why isn't he here?

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Did someone call? I thought I saw the bat signal in the night sky! I have suffered silently, refusing to post but watching this ridiculous thread stay at the top of page one - that is until now.

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I made a mistake telling you not to go away. You're just a ***** and I regret my error.

Wally......your once hidden douche baggery is now front and center. You pick up on an old oil thread, are given solid advice but don't want to listen to it.......because well........you are a douche bag and you know better than experienced folks do and well yup you have a 928 (different species btw) and well there's that db thingy and you really have no idea what FSI does......do you? Thank god for boobie pics!

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*sigh* Well, I really try hard not to sound like KrazyK (i.e. running around smooching Jake's posterior) - but you've missed the mark here. If I had to pick the RL member who seems most in need of a life, Walt, regrettably I believe it's you... <--- Bill Murray is trying to tell you something. Please listen.

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Hey you guys, stop sugarcoating it and tell the guy what you really think. Oh, and just because it's been awhile since we've gotten the opportunity:

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Pics, damn you.

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There are a lot of people out there who know a lot about something, that, "gasp", will have a very low forum count when they first start posting. Not saying that's the case here, I didn't read up on him or care to, but that a person can't outright call someone a troll or new (maybe new to the forum) based off of a low post count. I doubt Jake will go anywhere, he makes too much money off of this site. Plus if someone (him or anyone) left because of a person with only 6 posts, well, that says more about them than anything. However, I've found just as helpful or more helpful articles on these cars that don't involve Jake posting. So if he did leave, yes, we would lose someone who can give advice, but he isn't the only shop or person out there online. Oh and as far as the oil thread, I was a lemming and put in what's called for. I don't know enough about oil to get too involved, the car is expensive, and it's not something I want to learn about right this moment. If I did want to learn though I would go on other forums and talk with sources in real life rather than on here.

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Here you go: (Swedish Mauser M96 see http://www.theboxotruth.com/educatio...wedish-mauser/ )

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Kc ftw! But seriously... Wtf?

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It seems to me you're one of those that would just as soon not have Jake here. Jake has actually done more than just give advice on this board, there have been posts on here where Jake sent someone something FREE by the way to help them out. His advice has been a BIG benefit to many on here and I doubt it could be replaced. You say if you wanted to learn something you would go on other forums, nothing wrong with that but if you do find someone on another forum with near the knowledge Jake has please let us know. I also laugh when you say Jake makes to much money off this site for him to leave, how do you KNOW this and my feeling is that Jake could care less about how much money he makes from this site although its just my opinion and isn't any more valid than yours. If Jake does leave it will not be because of the 6 posts the new guy left but the constant grief he gets from many on here, in any event I doubt he's leaving. The new guy seems to have a ****ty attitude and I'm not the only one with that opinion.

Just to add something that may help the OP; Jake didn't just make crap up about which oil he uses in the M96. He has been very specific about how each blend of Driven oil was formulated and for what purpose, whether it was for break-in, track use, or street use. A very simple answer to you question and a direct quote from JR is, if you want what works best for your M96, first use the break-in to flush the engine then refill with JG DT 40. If you are too dense to heed his advise, oh well, maybe your engine blows up or maybe it doesn't. Here is a link if your too ignorant to figure it out: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jgr-02407/overview/

There it is again... On this forum I know of FOUR people that have used my services. Thats it, just FOUR, of those two of them have posted in this thread. These cars are now in the hands of DIY owners, we don't support the DIY effort at all, and have nothing to offer them, so I don't understand how the statement I quoted above can be made at all. Over the years my efforts shift to the newer cars that are having issues out of warranty, and are still on their first or second owner. This is the way the 996 used to buy, then the 997.1, but now we are well into the 997.2, and have been since 2010. As time goes on the DIY owners learn from forums and do their own work. Thats what makes these forums thrive. I just finished editing the 996 and 997 Technical Specifications for fasteners today, and thats something that a DIY'r would REALLY benefit from, as its 200 pages of every torque spec in the entire car, as well as the engine. I'm not even happy putting my name on the cover after reading this crap, because I know more of this "He is only here to make money" bull**** will be posted.

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Now, three.... and I didn't find you on this forum, found you via word of mouth via another non-Porsche forum. Did, I tell you I am going to sue you because of this permanent grin on my face from your engine!

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Personally, I could care less if someone is here to make money when they have something of value to give to the forum. Whether it be a product, a service or advice. For those of us paying attention, it's easy to see who's a charlatan selling BS and who's passionate about these cars and is the real deal and a true benefit to the forum and community as a whole. BTW...I've bought products from you too.

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Chill baby. I originally came here to talk tech shop. You d**** bags are the ones that took it to a dirty street fight. Sooner or later your going run into a Heisenberg. And that's your G.. D.. Right!

What a *****.

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I honestly couldn't care less. I just don't find his posts as informative as others here, and think there are different resources out there that are just as or even better. Him staying or going isn't my concern.

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Don’t worry. I'm done. Any more fun here poking sticks would just be plain childishness. The pack mentality here is obvious and your responses were all quite predictable. Joe Gibbs would be proud. Not what I would consider open minded forward thinkers, you guys remind me of these people : Joe Gibbs=Liquid Gold Liquid Gold Rush: Harmonica | VELVEETA Shells & Cheese - YouTube

I have to admit I'm really baffled by you guys attitude toward JR and the Driven oil line. Could you please share your expertise as to how your so much more qualified than JR to espouse about the best oil for the M96. Please post the links to your trials and R&D. You two appear to be the strangest new members here, even more so than JI.

You guys need to let this drop to the 2nd page already. Jeeeez!

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Yes the pack mentality here is obvious, plus it's an oil thread.

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Flutter away little butterfly, flutter away. *I did have a half serious post, but then was reminded who KK is later in this thread.

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LOL! I have to admit, the Batman & Robin running from the pretty ladies got me.

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What's strange is that DT40 isn't recommended for track use yet M1 is the recommended oil in the owners manual of even Cup Cars and some still use this in their Cup Cars, you know, the ones that actually go racing and see repeated 8k+ redline multiple times? Guess what the German cars use around the Nurburgring? While there is no doubt that JG is a very good oil and was formulated with Porsche motors in mind, your motor isn't going to die if you use anything else. Anything else is splitting hairs which RL is great at doing. As others said, this really belongs in oil specific forums IMO if you really do want to participate in splitting further hairs. Here's one splitting hairs thread in the correct forum: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/3011315/2 While you're there, feel free to browse others to your hearts content. I have no interest in being a lubrication engineer. Gawd, it must be a slow day for me to have been suckered, yet again into an oil thread.

My lubrication engineering work generally occurs around bedtime with my wife as the co-engineer.

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I do enjoy that forum a little, but like you I just have no desire to learn about oils other than that when I want to I ask friends or read the manual. Maybe oil threads can be lumped in with Politics And Controversy? Seems like these "discussions" fit nicely with that second part?

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Natural or synthetic or a blend?

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Well said. From the specs I do believe JG is great oil. Whether or not at 2X the price you really benefit in any way is debatable. I'm just tired of all the M1 bashing and statements that using it will cause your engine to grenade. It's Porsche that causes (some) engines to grenade. Imagine a new first time non-technical 996\997 owner stumbling on this thread for some advise.

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Since the revs are below 500 it doesn't warrant synthetic.

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I believe some have experiences with 15k used dino oil being used when they bend over for the $350 oil change while sipping on their latte.

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My starter went out or the battery is getting old. =(

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Was the barista and/or tech hot?

just ordered a case 100% pure Whale Oil from Japan.

All I know is that I bought some royal purple for my lawn equipment and it was purple! I thought that was cool so from now on I am using Royal Purple in everything. It has been proven multiple times that purple is a better color than brown so therefore purple oil must be better.

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Dunno, you'll need to ask someon else that. Dunno if a strap on was involved or not.

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Well I guess that's one way to check the oil.

" Imagine a new first time non-technical 996\997 owner stumbling on this thread for some advise." That would be me. I just finished reading this entire thread. How stupid am I? LOL. Was getting ready for my first oil change and now I am totally confused. Really, is there a BAD oil?

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just use butter! Cannot go wrong with butter.

Butter is delicious.

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I can't believe it's not butter!

Imagine someone has the great idea to just jump to the end to see the conclusion of the discussion and s/he will think we are a bunch of coocoos. Wouldn't be too far off though!

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That does raise a few additional questions. RPM's aside, what are the clearance tolerances for the piston? While we would like to eliminate any potential for bore scoring, the piston to sleeve ratio should be taken into account. The system is supposed to be self lubricating and in highly functioning equipment, it is not unusual to encounter splash lubrication, which should further help with the issue. Since you specifically mentioned that you generally run your engineering work around bedtime, I assume that older units are involved. Please make sure that you have thoroughly checked the general health of the engine before proceeding to prevent any catastrophic failures. In addition, if your lifters are slow to react, there are additives that can help with that particular issue. Please note that if your lifter gets stuck for more than 4 hours, you should contact your mechanic immediately. If, during the process, you begin to lose focus on your co-engineer and begin to note images of newer, low mileage models you may find that you are prematurely approaching redline. In this event, it may be useful to start mentally reviewing torque specs until the system returns to normal operating temperature. Upon completion of the lubrication engineering study, it is recommended that you observe a short cool down period to make sure future studies will be met with favorable conditions. Immediately reaching for the remote control upon completion does not generally yield a successful result, and could possibly cause the co engineer to begin making loud noises, similar to belt breakage, causing her to violently seize.

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Bore scoring is not an issue as the engine is allowed a good amount of warm up and engine is run frequently to ensure good routine system lubrication. No the reason it occurs at bedtime is because there are 2 intern engineers that need constant attention including feeding and bathing. I'm fortunate that this model is a 1-owner low mileage well maintained example. Clean ---fax. Yes, I have learned my lesson on this one.

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Gold. Beer on me if we ever meet in person!

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Porsche approved list of oils last updated 2012. Pick any from the list and you will be fine.

Wrong again king of n00bs. I remind you of the OP's original question. The key word is "best". JR has answered the question in this thread and others. Your obviously hopeless in your idiocy.

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I burst with laughter when I read Gonzo's response.

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Hey, no serious or helpful posts in the oil thread!

Um.... So..... Uh....... OK.

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And you can disregard comments from the d*** bag from Texas. He's angry because he recently realized he isn't a steer after all ...

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+ = Land O Lakes Butter - YouTube Sadly, I learned this when I was in grade school. Closest thing to **** back in the day. LOL.

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Purple is a Royal color and very expensive to make. I use Royal Purple 10w-40 in my 1998 Boxster and it works great but it is not so purple when it comes out. I guess it is just like us, what goes in comes out brown unless of course you ate Fruit Loops as it may come out green.

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He has no use for lubrication?

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That's why he needs a higher ZDDP content...for reduced chaffing .

It's more cleverer if you spell the words correctly... *chafing

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Maybe he also needs to run something thicker than the approved 0-40? Something along the lines of gear oil, or even assembly lube - assuming easy access and tear down of the parts before and after use.

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My bad. I was laughing to hard when I was typing.

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It's ok, just don't threaten to leave us.

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Stop. It's hurting and I cant stop

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Also assembly lube would be good for a dry start to get things moving a bit better after everything is assembled. After that, maybe a regular car oil would be good, or maybe the assembly lube would be enough? It all really depends on the length of use and the forces involved. Maybe an oil expert could chime in?

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Can anyone call Dr. Ruth Westheimer to get an answer on what type of oil we really need to use for this specific application? I don't see it on the list?? Oh god I'm in pain

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Maybe add a little of this to the preferred lubricant?

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He's angry because he no longer has the 996 and never gave it a chance or benefit of the doubt yet he hangs around here continually bashing it while a lot of us continue to enjoy it. For the new guys, here's some highlights on KK. Ask yourself if you really should be listening to a guy like this in the first place... Created a thread asking about taking a 300mi trip in his 996 which he eventually chickened out on. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...road-trip.html Replaced IXX numerous times and detailed both outside AND inside of his engine/tranny that doesn't get driven. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-cleaning.html Went around JR/LN(including bashing them) for his bearing install and tried to come up with his own kit using various parts and then not disclose his parts list to the RL community. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...65-thread.html Lived in constant fear and drove his car maybe 4k miles through his ownership while changing his oil every 300 miles or so. There are others but these stand out.

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Redline would definitely be good for the initial break in for sure... Thanks for the hearty laugh. We all need it.

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Well, it gets disassembled every time after use and cleaned, so I would think an additive or something would need to be used all the time?

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570 When will 996 version arrive?

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True. Good point.

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LMFAO WTF! haha

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You said it........learn it live it love it

Ask a serious question and you can't get a serious answer. You guys crack me up. Of course, all the "experts" say this is the BEST lubricant for your machine: http://stayswetlonger.com/products/w...ium-lubricant/ My co-pilot swears this is the way to go.

It's been stated that Lubrizol is the company behind JG oil and that they are one of a few companies that supply the additives pack to other motor oil companies. So who makes the base stocks for JG oil? The additive pack makes up 15 to 25 percent of the total. The rest being base oil stocks. The opposite could be said for M1 in that they make the own base stocks and not buy it from another company. I'd love to know where Lubrizol obtains the base stocks for JG.

Some believe its not necessary, but I find that this works well as a break-in lubricant.

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I can confirm that this helps, or some form of this depending on the circumstances. Although in some cases, to my engine, too much of it can and has hindered peak performance at times. To others it can prevent them from starting or revving up past idle, and restarting takes at least a day if not longer.

I was using a natural lubricant last night and experienced some extensive piston slap. Any recommendations on how to prevent this from happening again? I think the neighbors heard.

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Was this in cold weather? Did the cylinder get scored?

I am pretty sure I scored, but I'm not sure about the bore. I'll check that and reply back. Maybe this is the excuse I've needed to purchase an inspection camera...

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And you have to go through the proper warm up procedure, although it seems some are warmed up and ready to go faster than others, so not sure if there is a standard procedure out there. I guess, as long as it's lubricated it's good to go.

You guys need to be careful, if you over rev without proper lubrication you could throw a rod.

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Break-in oil can be used when you don't have the time to warm things up properly. This can also be used in cases where the bore is incredibly tight to prevent squealing...the literature indicates that this happens most often with cylinder #2.

I have some selection of break-in and warm-up oils in my "toolbox". There is also a bubbly oil for special occasions, and a red-dry oil for same purposes but different engine type. warmupoils_zpsns0teajx.jpg

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Most only seem to run on #1, is adding #2 an expansion kit? Does LN make a product for this? Or is it a German thing?

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You probably didn't think that you'd get an answer to this. I knew it already, but I wanted it to confirm, and have it come from the horses' mouth. Jake, We source all of our base stocks from Chevron and Chevron Phillips. In fact, we were the first to purchase the mPAO base oils from Chevron Phillips. Just as Lubrizol is our additive development partner, Chevron Phillips is our base oil partner. Thanks, Lake Speed Jr. Certified Lubrication Specialist & Oil Monitoring Analyst Driven Racing Oil

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Thanks for answering my question.

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Every unit shipped includes a second cylinder, but your ability to utilize it can vary from model to model. Note that there may be carbon build-up in that cylinder, which is harmless but potentially bothersome.

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Who wants to take this thread and make a compilation of "special" posts, print them out, and then casually discus them with your "non-car people" friends and with girls while recording the conversations??? I don't see many people catching on to what is going on quickly.

WTH? I thought this was an oil thread and I checked in to see what's the best oil 996. I thought it was the Italian Pure Virgin Olive Oil, but now I find I have to consider a "carbonized second cylinder" scenario. I'm going to go change my blinker fluid...

Careful, the second cylinder may have intermix milkshake.

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Gonna have to remember this title the next time a girl wants to know what I do for a living at a bar.

I already ordered new business cards.

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Perhaps we can get a package deal?

Piston Sleeve Inspector? Certified Bore Driller? Senior Splash Lubrication Technician?

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That title isn't gonna get you far. You need to at least be a Senior Splash Lubrication Specialist.

Ok, so IMSB Threads get Boobie Bombed and Oil Threads must now feature detailed splash lubrication analysis. Perfecto.

Business%20Card_zpsibhvpkpy.png

Intercourse, PA. Not far from Paradise, PA nor far from Blue Ball, PA.

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Not a fan of the green though, I'm feeling more blues and shades of blue. Although, that's just my taste and you and others are more than welcome to disagree. I love the picture and everything else.

Vista Print can make any business look professional.

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Looks line no consensus on what is the "best" oil for these engines, which is fine. I plan on using M1 0W-40. Is there as hot of a debate on which oil filter to use? OEM vs. Mann vs. Bosch vs. Mahle? I see multiple options on Pelican and found the below as well. Anybody buy Mann from Amazon? Amazon.com: Mann-Filter HU 719/5 X Metal-Free Oil Filter: Automotive Amazon.com: Mann-Filter HU 719/5 X Metal-Free Oil Filter: Automotive

There are definitely many different camps and strong opinions on which oil and filter to use. Flat Six Innovations recommends DT40 (XP9 if you are tracking the car), the spin on adapter with Napa 1042 filter, and a magnetic drain plug. They know these engines better than anyone so I just go with their recommendations.

I am a bit leery of the mobil 1 0w-40 myself, especially since there is money changing hands between mobil and porsche. I'm sure it will be more than sufficient to get a new car through the warranty period. In the turbo flat-four world that I'm from, Mobil 1 shears very quickly and rotella T6 or Motul were the blackstone confirmed oils of choice. The cylinder scoring that seems to happen in these cars is a bit alarming, and I will likely switch to T6 for my 996. I think with frequent enough change interval, any oil of the right weight will be fine.

Bores ovaled, free of charge. PM for additional info.

I use Schaffer motor oil. Love it and my mechanic uses it in his 996TT with a stage 3 kit as well.

maybe I should change thread title to what's the best oil FILTER?

I'll bet the majority of members on these boards will say Mobil1. LN Engineering recommends Joe Gibbs DT40 and Motul 8100 Excess. Both of these "boutique" oils will run you twice as much as Mobil1 but if you're doing 2 changes a year that only amounts to about $100.

The last thing I plan on is reading 16 pages of this thread. Has anyone mentioned the BMW million mile lab test using Mobil 1? http://www.mobil1.com.au/performance/miles.aspx Yeah I understand the zinc issue, but since 1985 been using M1 on every car in the stable and see no reason to experiment when you can buy 5 qt at Walmart for $25.

I just think it's fascinating that the guy that figured out how to redesign the M96 engine and make it practically bullet proof swears that the oil makes a huge difference based on his extensive research. And people are just kind of like "ya, not really seeing it". Since I have done zero research myself I'm just making an educated guess like everyone else but it seems like a fairly inexpensive measure to wring a little more life out of these engines.

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And most importantly, all close to Bird in Hand, PA.

I was advised to use Mobil 1 New Life� 0W-40 Mobil 1 is the world�s leading synthetic engine oil brand delivering exceptional performance and protection. Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 is engineered for the latest engine technology, the ideal product for newer vehicles or older vehicles in good condition, delivering our best all-round performance. But each to your own - the head of Castrol developments told me that it was better in some ways to have cheap clean oil than keep expensive dirty oil in your engine! O_Sr

Mobile 1 is one of the best oils on the market, no doubt. The concept behind the DT40 is that it has specific ingredients to help minimize the inherit weaknesses of the M96.

DT40 got rid of my brief chain noise at startup. Happy as a clam.

My car is a 2002 C4 and has 58k miles on it and to my knowledge has only had Mobile 1 in it. Would it be recommended to switch to DT40 or continue with Mobile 1 because that's what it's always had? I'd hate to **** it off

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Lol. As long as your Karma is good, switching isn't an issue.

OK; I believe the benefit of DT-40 is that it contains some anti-wear additives. Whether it's ZDDP or not, I dunno and am not arguing that point. So, I got to wondering. What's wrong with including a bottle of Eastwoods ZDDP additive or Camguard Automotive to a Mobil 1 oil change? If it provides better protection than straight Mobil 1, and maybe gets close to the DT40 formula, isn't that still better than Mobil 1 alone? Since DT40 is about 2x price of Mobil 1 (I'm talkin' WalMart here...), the $9 addition for a bottle of supplement doesn't seem like a bad trade. Educate me please.....Thanks!

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Same here. Was getting some lifter noise at startup. Switched to DT-40 and its completely quiet now. I was considering a replacement lifter until this. Worth the $$ in my opinion

SIMPLEST ANSWER, or question... What does Porsche Recommend? USE IT!

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Yep - to make it simple - any oil on the porsche a40 list should do - mobil 1 0w40 is often the cheapest and easiest available - and I've yet to see a UOA on mobil 1 that shows any issue (with 1 yr / 5k change - or any interval up to 10k for that matter) I did uoa for past few years on m1 and all looks good. I changed to lubromoly 5w40 on my last change to see if I can reduce oil consumption however. Ok - if you are running a lot on the track (or flat out on the autobahn)- the answer may be different - flat6 /ln joe Gibbs recommendation might have an advantage then (as do more frequent changes) and there are plenty of threads discussing that. Boutique oils like redline or amsoil that are not a40 tested might also be good - but who knows if there is a real advantage (or disadvantage) - so why not just stick to a40 - and if you really have a bad opinion of mobil for some unscientific reason - there is always castrol. On Bobistheoilguy I seem to remember some fleet managers conclusions (not on porsche however) was that there was no meaningful difference in the uoa on all brands tried - as long as drain interval was not too long.

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I prefer Schmitds or Reingold myself

Just thinking of the old tv series MacGyver. I'm sure he, in an emergency, filled the crankcase of some old car he needed to get running with peanut butter which then you see the car in a 100 mph car chase.

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Nailed it. Just bought my first 996. Haven�t even taken delivery of it yet. It�s at Fifth Gear Automotive in Dallas getting the ticking time bomb retrofitted. This thread has been highly entertaining but not very informative. It�s like asking what the best color in the world is.

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M96 Unfortunetly Porsche has to abide by some environmental concerns as opposed to DT40 which was designed just for M96 engines. That's all I use in mine.

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^^^ I think that's the point...

I saw this thread come back to life and thought “Nine years of liquid amber entertainment!” Lots of classic rants, douchery, passed down opinion, a few factoids, snippets and some classic wtf moments. In 9 years all of these oils have morphed significantly as, for instance, flat tappet cams wore out or plain failed due to lots of reasons (fodder for so many threads all over the WWW).

I�m gonna run AMSOIL. They�re the only ones that still have proprietary rights to 100% synthetic oil. Fingers crossed!

This is it. 2000 CS vert. 64k miles. $20k. PPI came back cherry. IMS, RMS, clutch being done on Tuesday. Should have it in the garage by Friday. I�m so excited I can�t sleep.

Looks like a nice car! Enjoy

It will be very interesting to see an analysis of the Porsche classic engine oil for the 996 5w50. And how it compares to the mobil 1 5w50.

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^^^ Since we all know Porsche doesn't manufacture oil, I would venture a guess that it's just repackaged Mobil 1... God forbid!

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According to Porsche all their new oils were made for specific models and ' designed' their spec at Weissach it will be very interesting to see an analysis of these oils...

Still looking for an analysis for the new Porsche classic engine oil 5w50. Anyone ?

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I met the owner of an oil company. https://www.raloylubricantes.mx/ They have a A40 certified synthetic oil produced in Mexico. Basically he said to use clean oil and change it often. I think whats important is mostly keeping clean oil in the engine. Im running 5w50 Mobil 1 right now and I did notice the oil pressure is a bit higher but the car ran fine with Autozone euro 5w40 with Porsche A40 Certification. Motor Oil is a business with lots of competitors and lots of them have A40 Porsche certifications. This points to just having clean oil is better that figuring out which oil is best. Just increase the change intervals in my opinion.

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I wouldn't believe that for a second...

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Ding...ding...ding.... If the manufacturer spec'd it then run it. It's fine. Remember they are considering how long they have to warrantly an engine as well. It doesn't benefit them to spec something that doesn't work. If you are worry wart then cut the change interval in half. All the recommended change intervals on modern cars are too long any way.

If y'all want to learn about oil, how viscosity is determined, anti-wear additives, and how it impacts these Porsches, you should consider taking this class. Jake Raby and Lake Speed, Jr. (tribologist, founder of Speediagnostix) just posted a 4-session online class on Used Oil Analysis. The cost to watch all 4 sessions is just $24.99 with a Pro1 membership on YouTube. You can cancel anytime. The same live class normally costs $400.00 through GoToTraining. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...xD421MklK2rSrY

I tend to favor Motul excess and Ravenol VST. Driven brand is fine, but the price, coupled with limited sources of supply and the whole supposed need to run break-in oil before getting locked into that product, are a bit off-putting. If they offered somewhat better pricing, even if only for largish consumer-level orders (say, in five-liter jugs or the like), they likely would do better in the market.

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You've run Autozone oil in a Porsche?!?!?! Oh, the humanity... HAHA Yeah, I'll take a hard pass on this one. I may not lead the most exciting life but I'm sure I can find thousands of better things to do than take this class.

I've been using used oil with 1k miles from the 128i, which is a mix of Mobil 1 0W-40, Elf 10W-40, and a shot of Crown.

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No reason for the self-centered snarky comment. There are a lot of people that want to learn how to properly read a Used Oil Analysis . Relying on the commentary from a UOA doesn't also tell the whole story. You need to understand what to look in respect to wear metals and how it applies to the specific oil that you're running in your car. When your car starts to eat itself up internally, you think the Blackstone commentator is going to give you the right information in their little 3-5 sentence summary? It's up to the owner to know what to look for and to catch trend data.

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WOW, self-centered and snarky...I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities. In essence, the entire 996 forum is a big disguised advertisement for certain vendors here anyway so I guess your post is a perfect fit...

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Guess you failed to realize that this forum is sponsored by LN Engineering. Nothing "hidden" about that!

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Yes, that's the way it is. Look past it(like B3freak et al) and there are some good also from time to time.

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There it is...this section of RL has been bought and paid for...apparently we are all here for no other reason than to continue this infomercial... I'll continue to enjoy my stock 996 while avoiding this section of RL...

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Well, I'm definitely no spokesman for IB or Rennlist, but most major automotive forums "pay the bills" via vendor sponsorships and ad placement. If you didn't allow commercial sponsorship or ads, then all members would have to carry the weight of paying for the operating costs associated with the platform through membership fees (e.g. Consumer Reports). The IB method offers free memberships to promote a high subscriber count which enables them to present useful data (i.e. # of members/audience) to vendors. The higher the number, the more commercial vendors will be motivated to make their brand visible here on Rennlist. That doesn't mean vendors are allowed to circumvent buying decisions or censor discussions that are not profitable to their companies, but yes, they will be allowed a more commercial presence to promote their products per rules of IB. Lots of vendors go out of their way to help RL members without any financial gain or compensation. If you want to view the number of vendors, there is a menu selection on the top tool bar that will show you every vendor and their activity in any given sub-forum.

Haven't on here in a while but good to see the oil thread is all and well...Hi B3. How you doin'?

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hey Pete, I�m good man, thanks! Where have you been hiding? Things have gotten boring... maybe we should invite Martin to have a few exchanges with you. Hahahahaha

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lol...

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I have no problem with vendors footing the bill, and/or advertising. Maybe it is because I�m pro-capitalist. Just don�t censure What�s being said, as I also am Pro-1st Amendment..and 2nd and 3rd and...

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'merica!

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I'm thinking Marty is busy sucking on some piva bottles. I have been busy racing my little Spitfire in a Vintage series. Having a blast!

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I'm very pro-capitalism as well, however, that is not my contention here. I'm referring to what I see as the sullying of this forum by vendors who make a living by spreading panic and fear of the M96/M97 engine platforms. Sponsorship rights or not, this forum has been turned into the personal playground and infomercial for these vendors. This, IMHO, has not only ruined this forum but it has also ruined the ownership experience for many car owners here as well as greatly contributed to the poor resale value of these Porsches. The fear and panic has been spread far and wide by these vendors not only here but to all forms of social media...selling these cars is a complete nightmare as most potential buyers are scared sh**less. Sure, there are potential issues with these engines but the fear mongering has been way overblown. Again, this is just MHO and I know many here disagree with these sentiments...

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What "fear-mongering" vendors are you speaking of? Please name them and I promise to socially distance myself and wear my digital mask while in their presence.

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????

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The 996 has gotten heat from magazine articles to Youtube's for various reasons (IMSB, bore scoring, hideous headlights, etc.) for years. In fact, I've seen more fear spread in places outside of Rennlist and forums because it's usually people that have not fully educated themselves and parrot what they heard at last weeks Cars and Coffee. I can't say I've seen a vendor on here fear monger with any post, rather they've shared information from what they've seen on a customers vehicle. Of course we're going to see more people with issues, because some come to forums to try and figure out said issues, or how to be on the look out for them. It's the same token for people buying BMW, Ferrari, from failed HPFP's, past due belt service, yada yada yada. There's something to be said about many sports cars in the grand scheme of things. If people let fear stop them from living and experiencing Porsche ownership than so be it, the rest of us realize that while there's potential risk, the reward outweighs quite significantly.

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I have heard that is manufactured by Rowe, but don't have any documentation to support it.

My recommendation... go with any good full synthetic of a reputable brand (Mobil1, Castrol, Motul, Liqui Moly, Rowe, etc.. ) with the recommended graduation (in this case 5-50W), change it frequently (1 year or 5-8K miles) and that's it. I'm sorry but I wont ever put oil produced by a small manufacturer in an engine that I appreciate. It's like thinking than a bearing produced in a small shop is going to be better than one produced by SKF for instance... oh, wait!

Time is coming up for my annual oil and filter service. 996 only has 42K miles from new , last 12 months with the lockdown and all that, it has only covered 1.5k miles which is a shame, not a total garage queen though as its driven 4-5 times a month... wish i had time for more .....anyways the Porsche Classic engine oil 5W50 is the one I will use , not long ago I used the Porsche classic engine 10w50 for my 924S and loved it . well the can really, cant say much about the oil yet , have 6 of these cans in my garage with the 996 I expect 9 more to arrive .... I was also told that is is made by ROWE. https://www.rowe-oil.de/

I changed my oil yesterday with Driven DT40. Pre-COVID I was driving 800-1000 miles every month, so I was changing it every 6 months/5000 miles. This time, 6 months later, I only put 1600 miles on my oil. It was clean looking when it came out. But I know I'm doing the right thing by changing it by age and not just mileage. Oil is cheap, engines aren't.

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In the same boat with both of my cars. My Audi has probably seen 2-3k miles since its last oil change in the early spring, 911 probably 1500 or so but I will change both in the next month or two. Its certainly not going to hurt. Probably just have my indy do the 911 since its up for inspection anyway this month.

FWIW, It�s my understanding 70% of engine wear occurs on startup. I�m told Zinc is the additive that will help oil cling to wearable parts when not in use. All synthetics have zinc. But it�s my understanding Driven oil (Joe Gibbs racing) has more zinc. Zinc will expire over time. So it�s a good idea to replace oil annually even if very few miles are added. My 996 is a daily driver, so I just use Castrol since it�s cheap. I plan to replace Mobil 1 with Driven on my 996 TT before winter.

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I haven't seen a post about it, but do you know if DT-40 is safe for cats? Been waiting till I leave CA to switch to bypass pipes & high zddp oil.

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Not tested on animals........

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Not tested on animals........

^ Porcupines seem to like it

Bottomless discussion. I ordered 9lt of Porsche Classic 5W50 for my next oil/filter change. Idoubt i will noticecany differnce from the mobil 1 0w40 i have been using from day 1 . Apart from the cans in the garage!

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Living in California, I decided to move to Mobile 1, 5w50 (Porsche approved but without Porsche tax). noticed that my oil pressure is 0.5 higher at 5000 RPM.

I just changed the oil/filter in my 2000 C4 Cab using 0-40 Mobil 1 and I'm not worried about it. However, I'll probably try the 5-50 Mobil 1 the next time around just to see what all the fuss is about.

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Someone else jump in here but I don�t believe that Mobile 1 is approved any longer for the 996 due to formulation changes.

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Good question. I didn't have any problems with my cats after about 20K miles of using DT40. My car is now kitty-less, so I can't speak to the last 7K miles.

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I�ve been using DT40 for 5 years and 30,000 miles in my �99 and have had zero cat or emissions issues to date.

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Quote: "0W-40, 5W-40 and 5W-50 advanced full synthetic motor oils approved against Porsche spec A40" Source: Mobil https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...hicle/porsche/

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Thanks. I guess it�s that some variations of Mobil 1 are still approved but others are not. This may or may not be of interest as well: https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=iD8Bl4jX1H8

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I don't think "that some variations of Mobil 1 are still approved but others are not" as they are all approved against Porsche spec A40 despite what wrote the competitor in 2019

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Well they aren�t �all� approved because some variations of Mobile 1 are C-spec which is not backwards compatible. If Mobil 1 approved it against Porsche�s spec, but Porsche doesn�t approve them against their own spec, then who do you believe? Both parties have a bias towards their own bottom line except for LN as they don�t produce any of them, including Driven. Given their history and knowledge pertaining to the M96, I trust LN and they say to use Motul, Porsche Classic or Driven.

Porsche classic engine oil is the safest bet surely....

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I like your optimism regarding the neutrality of a vendor

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We had higher oil pressure with Mobil 1 5w50. Bought lots on sale maybe have 3 more oil changes on the shelf.

A stupis question is it good to get higher pressure as with the M1 5w50. I have Been using M1 0w40 since i bought the 996

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It depends on how loose or tight your internal clearances are, which you probably don't know..