$41k Targa on BaT engine failure

Could not believe this story I discovered on a 911 FB forum. Long story short Mr. Deezy's beautiful Targa met an untimely demise when the new owner suffered a catastrophic engine failure in Texas on their way home to Florida. The car is now being diagnosed and in the queue at Flat Six Innovations. Check out the YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-t...ature=youtu.be And read the most recent comments on the auction: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-targa-13/ WOW

WOW indeed!

Yikes! As a recent 996 buyer it'll be interesting to see what the cause of the failure was. I tried to look up 405 Auto (the place that overhauled the engine a few years ago) and it looks like they closed down.

Wow that is really unfortunate. Just goes to show you that no 996 is safe unfortunately. I feel like when I first started looking for one a few years ago these issues weren’t as wide spread or maybe I just wasn’t looking hard enough.

I bought my 996 on BaT and the previous owner was a liar. BaT isn't a great place to buy a car. Clearly in favor of the seller. Lied about having a clean title and lied about putting a new clutch in it. 2 weeks after getting it on the road the clutch completely stripped out. Be aware.

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Lying about a title is low, can�t believe BaT doesn�t check that.

If you cant do a PPI you face big time surprises.

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My impression of BAT years ago, seemed the cars were legitimized and vetted. But there were few, not the volume we see today. After Jay Leno bought the Falcon off BAT the site exploded to what we have today. Our 996s have been getting the recognition they deserve in and around the Porsche community partly because of BAT. They are fantastic cars to drive and easy to live with once you address the issues which have been talked about for years. I've been considering BAT for the sale of my '99 which has an FSI 3.6 Street Performer. But I'm an old low tech guy not looking forward to the big production process. This could be a turning point. For now I'm taking my sale very slow and dealing with one person at a time. No pressure for me or the buyer. Stay honest people.......

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BaT is a great place for a seller. Very little vetting of the car and bidding prices tend to be high. I over paid for my car. My brother in law just sold an Alpha and was surprised at how much he got. Much more than he expected. BaT wanted to see more pix of paint chips and videos of it running. No interest in suspension or engine quality. Both things that a PIP would uncover. Sorry to turn this thread into a BaT bash. Just my experience and I can't recommend it for a buyer, but it's great for sellers. Be encouraged!

I am sorry this happened to your new car. This is really unfortunate, I went back twice to read the ad on BaT. Look at the difference on the way these two paragraphs were worded. The first looks like , good, LN IMS bearing upgrade. The second is something that should raise red flags, partially overhauled This with a new shaft?? Why wasn't the motor broken down completely if there was damage to the shaft? Were the warning signs there, that something was not as it should be with this car? This Porsche 911 is one of approximately 2,600 Targa models produced for the 2002 model year and was acquired by the seller in 2018 following time in Texas, Nevada, and California. The car is finished in red over black leather, and power is from a 3.6-liter flat-six that was partially overhauled in 2015 and is paired with a six-speed manual transaxle. Modifications include an IMS bearing and a low-temperature thermostat from LN Engineering, BBS wheels, �hlins he 3.6-liter flat-six was overhauled in January 2015 by 405 Auto of Santa Monica, California with a replacement intermediate shaft as well as an LN Engineering IMS bearing upgrade kit . New intake and exhaust valves, timing chain rails and guides, air oil separator, gaskets, a

Wasn't there another thread on this car?

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I�m not sure. I don�t recal seeing one, but the previous owner was active on this forum so it�s not out of the realm of possibility.

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There was a thread, I remember asking something about wheel spacers in it. Hopefully its just bad luck.

On the upside for the new owner. When Jake is done with it, he will have an awesome car! I can say this from first hand experience.

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That's true, but he will also be $70k minimum invested....

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This right here. After spending $40k+ and having to dump an additional $20k+..., that's a swift kick in the nads.

Good to know my 65k mile Targa has about 10,000 miles left. I swear every day it's another sign to ditch these cars. :/

This is horrible, sorry for the new owner...

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Many other sports cars have the possibility of catastrophic failure due to poor engineering. If potential issues are that big of a worry, many would be better off in a Camry.

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This is kind of where I am at. I have a cab with 53k miles on it, I will have owned it for 2 years come December. I go through stretches like I am right now where I haven't driven it in a few weeks and then see a thread like this and it makes me want to sell it. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it but I also worry about it blowing up. If I could get 5+ years out of it before it died I would be happy, I could justify at the point rebuilding it and enjoying it another 5+ years.

Has anyone considered that maybe the new owner has loads of cash, liked the look of car enough to buy it, even at a very strong $41k? Maybe the additional money for the new engine is chump change? Maybe he was going to do the engine anyway? Maybe the failure was a legit accident? Hard to believe the seller could time this so perfectly. All this talk about 996 engine failure every where you look is a real bummer. I have a 2012 Land Rover with a ticking 5.0 time bomb under the hood, but figure the hell with it. Do what I can, but keep on truckin'. Like others have posted, if you're looking for reliable and the vanilla "come along" buy a Honda. Or Toyota. Or Kia. Or Hyundai. You got lots of choices! I mean look at this thing! Look at any of them! Count your blessing, cross your fingers and IMS, AOS, ABS, MNOP, SOB and MF'ers be damn! I wanna slap this thing on the *** and ride! In for a penny, in for a pound!

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trouble is, at 70k, you are well within range of a 996 GT3 which is more fun to drive and far more collectible

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Maybe. But obviously he wasn't the only that the car spoke to. Here's maybe kinda of an analogy. Who would sink $850,000 into a Chevy II? For that kinda money you could have the $41k 996 (WITH the Raby engine), the GT3 and a lovely home with a 3 car garage to store them. But obviously it spoke to someone enough for them to do it. See here .

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It's an absolutely fair question if it was an accident, Deezy didn't know, or did sell it knowing it had issues. Who knows. Hopefully time will reveal the answers. We can debate other cars and their issues endlessly (and I LOVE talking cars so I will gladly do that with enthusiasm), but I just don't know of many cars that have engine rebuild costs almost equal to their current purchase prices, nor have high risks of needing it like the apparently 996s do. $60-70k buys an awfully lot of used car these days. Staying in the 996 world, that's Turbo or even GT3 money. I personally hope to never have to do that, but who knows, I might be on that path already.

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TRUTH. A rebuild is so damn expensive, it's nuts! You could always swap an LS!

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If you're spending $41k on a 996 Targa, you're probably not bargaining that going to $70k+ right after purchase. If that were so, he probably would have been bidding on 996/7 T option. The failure wasn't an accident, but an occurrence. Something either went wrong naturally, or the slight overhaul never really addressed other known potential issues outside of the IMS. Plus, the receipts for the "overhaul" in 2015 state that "Engine stalled, could not restart. No compression, cam timing off 50�, found broken IMS tensioner". Mind you this was all performed at "405 Auto, Santa Monica" which is no longer in business. While they may have been in the Euro car business when open, having someone do an overhaul on an M96 that doesn't specialize with one is an issue in my opinion. It's unfortunate for the buyer, and I doubt this kind of potential event was considered when purchasing.

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I agree. I know nothing about '405 Auto' and I have no opinion on whether they may be a factor in this but I personally wouldn't take a 996 to a place that says they specialize in " BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Audi, Mini Cooper, Volvo, Volkswagen, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari, and Maserati" .

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A PPI could reveal some of the obvious issues like oil leaks, non-working windows, rust...etc. However, it will not let you know what day a catastrophic failure will occur with the engine or transmission. Many people (including myself) paid for a PPI, were happy to hear that the car was in "great shape" and were extremely disappointed with the car immediately afterwards. Bottom line: A PPI is helpful but not faithful.

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Same exact thing happened to me. This was from a Porsche specialist even.

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I am pretty sure, M96 IMSB replacement from LN, requires some kind of information and data from the shop doing the installation in order to get VIN on a LN historic record list that they have started. Can any techs comment on that? I just found the link https://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/

I would be bummed to be into a 996 for 70k, but maybe the buyer really likes the car and has the funds. That's really all that matters. I think owning one of these 996s is a crapshoot. I own one because i have always loved them. It's a gamble, i think any 996s owner has to be prepared to just be out the cash, and be able to move on. 911s are fun and addicting. I've had my 4s for about 8 months now and have loved every minute with it. I actually get excited when i leave the house and get home each day. Just looking at it for a moment brings me joy! However, it will be for sale very soon. I have an 03 turbo on the way. (addicting) lol. Maybe the turbo will be better, maybe it will just open another can of worms. who knows. Wouldn't it be neat if the owner of this targa would chime in and we could all stop speculating! haha

Sad story and the reason I bought a roller...I bet it lost a timing chain.

Those of you who have been on the forum know that I too have spent huge sums on my 996 where I could have bought a much better and collectable 911. However, sometimes you make a connection with the car...kinda like marriage commitment..."in sickness and health". When things are great it's euphoric but sometimes things go bad and you need to work through it. As my son says when he told me he wanted to be a navy pilot and I told him that it's crazy and dangerous..." You ain't living if you ain't taking risks"...I think about this Everytime I drive my 996.... life is good!

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i like that ^

I don't think it matters if you buy a 5k car or 100k car, if it doesn't make the trip home it is terrible regardless of your financial stature. I bought a 2000 S4, a car I lusted after since I played Gran Turismo, and my turbo blew the second day of ownership. Wasn't making any noises or anything that would lead me to believe it was about to go. So I know the pain.

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excellent point.

For posterity's sake...

delete

When I shot that quick video I didn�t know where the buyer had purchased the car. His submission ticket to me didn�t say; it just said he bought the car in Cali, and it blew up in Texas in the way home to Florida. I thought nothing of it, just another typical story. In fact, it wasn�t till the video was posted, and people started posting in the comments that it was sold on BaT that I knew that had happened. Not that it would have changed anything, just coincidental, and the buyer of the car never mentioned a purchase price or any details. That said, not only does the buyer have to pay for my engine program, he also had to pay 1500 bucks in additional shipping costs to get the car away from the shop it went to when it failed, and get it to me. He then had to pay for airfare home.. Then... once I receive the car, and issue it a death certificate (pretty much confirming what the shop in Texas said) I then break the news to him that the engine was not fitted with my IMS Solution, as he had stated in his original message to me. At that point I still hadn�t even looked at the BaT ad, so I had no idea how the car had been represented or described. That increased the bottom line of the engine by 1,800 more than I had priced it to him previously, since the IMS Solution could have been reused, if it had been fitted as he had described to me. For weeks the buyer hasn�t gotten a single word of good news from me about this car. The shop in Texas even started charging him storage after only a few days, and it wasn�t cheap. We could not find truck space, so finally we had to dispatch our local driver to fetch the car, before he racked up hundreds more dollars in storage fees. I didn�t care what the back story was with the details of the purchase. I was just reporting what I was seeing first hand. The rest of the story isn�t my department, just determining what happened, and ensuring it never happens again, is my department. Along the way I�ll put the rest of this puzzle together, and I do enjoy these challenges more than the regularly scheduled programming around here. The engine is ready for me to disassemble, so I can start putting all the pieces together in post- Mortem. I have been waiting till I completed my engine dyno updates, so I can fully document this teardown, personally. That should happen next week, if Bobby my videographer recuperates from Covid19 as we expect he will. The engine is scheduled for completion in June 2021, and luckily the buyer made it into the queue before the late summer rush hit, as we are now into October 2021 for completions. While there�s no rush on this one to come apart, the buyer needs closure, and we need to see the extent of collateral damages as early as possible. The buyer is a great guy, and has been excellent to work with. While he is heart broken, and while his dream car turned into a nightmare, he remains focused on the positives associated with this �less than favorable� learning experience. His story is one for all 996 purchasers to pay close attention to, and learn from.

Here�s hoping your customer is ok with you sharing your findings on this forum. Always makes for interesting reading. He�ll have one badass car when all�s said and done.

Well, I sold the car to the buyer. It was my 13th sale on Bring a Trailer. I have owned several 996's and none have given me much of any problem at all. If you look at the auction, I included much more information than 99% of 996 auctions on that site. Manometer reading, Cam timing, DME, anything I could possible do, I did. There is video of the car being driven hard, and starting cold, no ticking or issues. Several bidders came to see the car and it was checked out without issue. I really hate that this happened, but there was no ppi that would have seen this coming. I think saying that is misleading and trying to make the seller (me) look bad. The 996 in general is a ton of fun but we all know these engines have always had their issues and it's not exactly gonna be as reliable as a Toyota. This failure occurred in Texas roughly 1700 miles into the drive home and I really feel for the buyer. The good news is it is getting a great engine from a respected builder that should last decades.

The car was represented really well and there was a ton of info given. Definitely more than most 996�s that go across the proverbial auction block at BaT. However, there was one glaring misrepresentation. Could it have kept the engine from failing on the way from CA to FL?Probably not.

There was another 996 sold on BaT by a person (not the seller of the car we are discussing) who really didn't know much about the car until he started researching known issues. Don't misunderstand, the car was nice. But, I found it hilarious that when the BAT auction went up you would have thought the guy was an expert on 996 issues and all his answers made it sound like the the car had been meticulously maintained and he had followed all the recommended guidelines (oil changes every 6 months, keep rpm around 3000 until warm, etc.). There's no doubt that having the right sales pitch drives prices up and buyers wind up dealing with the effects of those lies later.

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Just when I backed off from Rennlist for being boring and this happens. And that red Targa... I'll never forget that car with those gold BBS wheels and all the hype on BaT. This is like getting drunk at a club and waking up the next morning in an odd room with scratches on your back. You won't remember how you got there, but you'll NEVER forget those scratches. $41,000 for a 996 Targa that blows up on the way home is some major deep scratches! Mr. Deezy I have to hand it to you. You're really quite a sales person. 13 cars sold on BaT? Wouldn't that make you a dealer?

I'm interested to know what popped in this engine. Until then, there is no point arguing who is at fault.

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May be Bat should list flippers vs car enthusiast selling cars? invasive PPI always needed. That is the lesson for others.

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Part of my admin process includes allowing us to use the engine, and vehicle for both instructional, and promotional videos, and other forms of digital media, and he agreed to this. This story would make a very good "Focus On" series as part of as PPI video, but I have the R40 engine going back together for our current "Focus on IMS Bearing failure" series going on right now, and it's tough with Bobby out with Covid to do it alone.

Best of health to Bobby with Covid.

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If it was me, I'd kick back a few bucks to the buyer (in good faith) and wish him luck.

What a story!! Bat seems like a crazy place to buy a 996 these days given how many there are laying around and how many are likely in terrible shape. Curious to know if an invasive PPI would have detected anything or if this is truly a freak accident (which is more unnerving as I drive my 996 hard). No hate on the buyer as he clearly isn't on this forum, but a quality PPI seems like nothing before spending $41k USD on a 996. That's practically 997.2 territory in Canada. After a new motor from FSI you could be shopping for a GT4 or 991. Ouch!!

This isn�t the sellers first rodeo... https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ust-see-7.html

The car that was sold? Did the car have the IMS Solution or was it this car that did not (see bottom picture)?

Easy to blame the seller, but really stuff just breaks sometimes. It has happened to me after I sold a vehicle...the last car I sold did that to me in fact. But since it was hundreds of miles away, all I could do was to help troubleshoot it via Facetime.(which really sucked!) In the end it was a free fix, but it did take a lot of the new owners and my time. You can take care of everything on a car, but something can still happen. That's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to flip cars these days...well that and COVID. Luckily the new owner has kept in touch with me and is still VERY happy with the car.

This one is interesting....

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I agree totally with this. I can't even sell my Porsches that I've had for years without having to worry myself to death. It took me two years to finally sell my 964, only because it had to be to the right guy, and I couldn't advertise it without opening myself up to some major potential issues. I have a 996 cabriolet for sale now with my 4.0 engine, and it'll take forever to find the right guy for it, too.. Then we'll have to have a very direct talk about the rules of engagement, and he will have to send it to another shop for a PPI for me to sell it, and more.. As far as BaT goes, I really like the platform. I plan to sell the 29,000 mile 996 C2 that I am doing the video series for now, on BaT in a few months, once things are done, and broken in. I sold a couple of my military vehicles on BaT earlier this year, and the experience was pleasant on both sides.

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Thank you for posting BillH. Interesting read. Brings things into context. Wonder why internet brands didn't ban MrDeezy from this site? Seems like I remember Wheel Dynamics being a vendor on here too. Are they still around? Looks like their company website is non-existent.

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That was an interesting read. What was more interesting was how much MDeezy continuously tried to point the finger (don't get mad at the small guy, get the big guy!), and when people read through his BS he quickly turned to calling them losers and idiots. What a shame.

Looks like the question was asked during the auction. But, unless I missed it, was never answered...

Despite all of the bad press the seller is getting, I really do think it's DD for the buyer to get a PPI and do all their homework - especially before dropping that much on a 996. I'm sure FSI gets the majority of his business from the ones that don't.

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Not a majority, but enough.. When someone buys a car, and falls in love with it, the dream becomes a nightmare in a split second. They own the car just long enough for the issue to rip their heart out. That sounds like a good name for the video series "When dreams become nightmares".

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Great sleuthing by Billh1963 and pretty damning admissions by the seller himself from his own posts.....an admitted cocky flipper who is all too happy to pass on the problems in cars to someone else...be it another person, ebay, or all those "idiots" (how he sees his buyers) who don't do PPI's...He just can't believe his good fortune of so many who will carelessly buy from him off BAT with NO PPI...

To be honest, the people from this forum are completely paranoid and most sane people don't post here so light me up...

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cocky is being generous, that's a scam. Dudes a con man classic used carman stereotype applies.

@mrdeezy So did you know that the BaT listing stated the LN Engineering Solution was installed? Did you put that in the listing or did BaT?

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A dream comes through for you when someone pays 30k for one of your engines. don't forget that. You trash every seller or person you can. your whole business is built on fear and paranoia. That is why this forum is so negative. You know these engines fail...and point blame at people with no fault. truth is you are a smart man with huge financial interest in things happening and you love being a little republican who knows nothing when the day is over. That is the truth. You just want to pay your rent.

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Jake Raby...the INVENTOR of the IMS Solution has stated in THIS THREAD unequivocally that NO IMS Solution was installed on the Targa you sold and represented via BAT to seller as having one installed..... don't tell me you didn't know..because no one would believe you as your previous ban from RENNLIST says all about your character one needs to know..but that would be like you to blame the shop that doesn't exist in business any longer...that's FRAUD...FULL STOP! Not a damn thing to do with paranoia...Probably your own paranoia as you could be sued and you would probably lose jack!

https://media.giphy.com/media/iDJuQR0UmiqOI/giphy.gif

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I see what u did there...

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I know Jake and he is nothing like you describe. You on the other hand are very suspect. Thanks to COVID and other things I�m looking for other opportunities, or I�d go all sailor on you. You got caught in a lie and are now calling names and deflecting. Get out of the car game and go into politics where ilk like you congregate.

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Anyone who has 70k+ to drop on a 996 because they want it, has the resources to make that guys life miserable for misrepresenting a sale....

Ok great tell me

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I thought you might be a decent person. This response proves you're not. Not a good way to live your life. Smh

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Jake "just wants to pay his rent"....Wow what a tool...LOL...I am pretty sure Jake owns his digs in Georgia..and doesn't rent...Jake has more work than he can possibly handle and doesn't even need to be on this forum in any way to get business...but he does teach and share a LOT on this forum which I am thankful for..thanks Jake! In any case....nice UTTER FAILURE at deflection there fraudster.... aka mrdeezy

Point being...let's stay on topic and not fall into the defamatory trap mrdeezy has laid out as deflection from his misdeeds..which serves only to distract from the substance of the fraud he has foisted upon his unsuspecting buyer (s) as he has done so in the past per his previous ban from 6speedonline...

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Flat 6 Innovations is located on Raby Drive. You don't have to pay rent, when you own the whole damn street. How, and why did Republicans get brought into this? That said, I have had a lot of dialogue back and forth on forums with Mr.Deezy, and we've never had any ill words. He has often times complimented me on my work, and he did the same thing earlier on in this thread. I still have zero ill- will toward him. I figure that he is having a really bad day after the things that have been posted here today, and he feels that all of that is my fault for posting a video. In that video I said nothing about the seller, or where the car was sold at.I even covered up the custom license plate in the video, as I knew that belonged to the seller, and it didn't need to be in the video. I did not know either of those things at that time. I only follow the BaT auctions that feature cars with my engines, and usually someone has to send me a link to tell me those cars are listed. Mr. Deezy gave me a compliment when the last 996 with my engine fitted was listed there, a couple of weeks ago. What the seller needs to realize was my video was about was the necessity of an INVASIVE PPI before these cars are bought. In essence this means that if anything else my recommendations to do this help his case with the buyer, who is my customer. This was the entire point of the video... Make sure you get an invasive PPI on any car that you buy. I have been saying this on this forum and others for years, that is nothing new. I'm not mad, or even upset at what Mr. Deezy posted about me. All of his prior exchanges with me were positive, and I can't think of a time when we disagreed. In summary: This isn't about me, of Flat 6. A car showed up on a trailer from Texas, after it was bought in California, and didn't make it home to Florida. More than likely an invasive PPI could have kept this from occurring, and that was the point of my video. I am now targeted by the seller (who I have never had a problem with before) because I chose to share a factual experience that happened to a new buyer of a 996, not sharing who sold the car, or where it was sold. If someone can explain to me how anything I did was wrong, I'd be happy to listen.

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Jake..you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong...You spoke the TRUTH...like you always do. Thank you! The facts of the sale of the car (NO IMS Solution when stated otherwise in BAT auction) and mrdeezy's own historical statements and history here on Rennlist are damning...putting him on the defensive...I saw no reason why he attacked you...but because you REPRESENTED the truth as you always do... is WHY he attacked you... he is cornered by the facts of his own fraud and is lashing out...

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You could tell he was a miserable person from his responses back in 2011. Has absolutely no self awareness or accountability.

Wow, this thread got ugly fast. The moral of the story is buying a used car is 'buyer beware' regardless of where and who you get it from. As I said, I know the feeling, I got burnt on thousands in repairs on an S4 that never ran right while I owned it. Even though it could have been the seller doing something shady it was my fault for not having a thorough PPI done. Right now the reality is only 3 people know whats going on here and only two of them are here. Even if there were some shady dealings it is incredibly difficult to prove and almost all states treat used cars as the buyers responsibility. It is just a terrible situation.

Don't know how this got turned into an attack on Jake. Love him or hate him it was Jake, Charles, and maybe a couple others who developed a solution to keep our cars on the road. A solution that Porsche was unable and/or unwilling to provide. I've been burned on many online car purchases. I take total responsibility for that. I am the eternal optimist and always "hope" for the best. Almost every 996 I have bought has been without a PPI....and that's after taking Jake's M96 engine rebuilding class! As Jake says, however, that optimism doesn't work on these cars. Many other people (including myself) can attest to that. In this case what prompted me to initially post was the misrepresentation of the IMS Solution supposedly being installed. Based on the seller's posts it would be pretty hard to believe that it was an honest mistake. I've bought several cars off BaT and am a big fan. However, everything changes over time and more dealers/flippers are taking it over....usually for the worst. This is an example of that. i look forward to what Jake finds out. This may be one of the most egregious examples of "passing the trash" we've seen.

A very active deceptive dealer/flipper indeed... https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1209209 https://mart.pca.org/ads/45866

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He is active on BaT, I don't think him selling cars was a secret.

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People lash out at those who expose their mistakes or malfeasance (I had to look that up to spell it right). Either directly or indirectly. You did nothing wrong. Hopefully we'll be able to hear what the root cause was.

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All the more REASON why MISREPRESENTING having an IMS Solution on BAT with his 13 previous sales is PREPOSTEROUS on it's FACE...He is a lying POS!!!!!!

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PCA listing, huh? That's not going to go well

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Indeed...Pictures taken in the same locations as the Targa posted on BAT in Monterey, CA...

I have learned loads from watching and asking questions on BAT. I don�t think I could ever bid seriously without inspecting a car and ppi if appropriate. I have noticed that there are some 996 sellers that seem to pump (push, shill) others auctions. I�d dig very deep at $20, 30,000+.

in before thread lock..... whew, I'm glad I bought a Cayman!

Rennlist rule #1: Don�t be a dick. (In this instance relevant to Mr Deezy). Can we make this a sticky please?

Just to put money in perspective to what it’s worth, A refurbished XEON Platinum computer chip cost 9 thousand dollars. , much better deal for A upgraded 3.6 engine, Fast computers and fast cars are not Cheap. https://www.newegg.com/p/1FR-001K-004P1#

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Yeah I'm not sure that is a rule on this forum...at least it doesn't seem to be.

Mr. Deezy should at least refund the buyer 2k for the IMS Solution discrepancy. That is easily verified by looking under the car and seeing the oil hose that feeds it. I am feeling very fortunate right now in that I just purchased a 2003 Targa from Jake that had a bore scored engine. It's now a 4.0 street performer and I couldn't be happier. This is my 4th transaction with Jake and Flat 6 over a ten year span. For my money there is no other option regarding air or water cooled Porsche equipment. Fast, cheap, reliable, pick two.

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Agreed. Least he could do. And pocketing $41k maybe a $5k refund wouldn�t be out of the question but not my money/decision to make so.... Congrats on the 4.0 Targa. My engine was just torn down by FSI (all was healthy) and awaiting the 4.0 treatment. Btw, Jud has to be one of the nicest dudes on the planet. Looking forward to October 😁

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Here's what we know: (some minor service is left out of list. Only major service included in list) The IMS bearing was changed out along with clutch service in 8/23/2013 by ALL GERMAN AUTO, then just over a year later, the engine fails. 405 Auto completely rebuilds the engine at 52,000 miles. 1/26/15. At this point, the previous owner spent over $13,000. Engine won't crank. 12/27/16 Valley European replaces with a rebuilt starter. $640.00 The engine fails. 1/16/18. No compression on Bank 2. The same company "405 Auto" charges $2500.00 to repair. 5 Months later, the engine fails due to a faulty fuel pump. ADOLPH AUTOHAUS repairs for $700. 5/24/18 The Car is sold to Mr. Joe Deezy on 9/13/18 and begins to add $$$ of modifications to the car. 9/24/18 - Porsche floor mats 11/2018 - Red seatbelts ($1700.00) 1/2019 - Ohline coilovers, painted red console, ceramic coating, Eibach swaybars 2/2019 - Red gauges, GT3 shifter, Alcantara steering wheel, and Champion wheels ($1700) 3/2019 - Fister Exhaust Modification 4/2019 - Rear Nitto tires/alignment, FVD Brombache X51 oil sump plate, Cold Air Intake elbow, engine mounts, etc. 5/2019 - Brake flush, transmission mount replacement/insert, spark plugs, and 997 airbox 6/2019 - Porsche sport seats $1750.00, Numeric Full shifter kit ($1000.00), serpentine belt changed, and painted seat backs. 9/2019 - Alpine/Polk Audio system installed 11/2019 - LN 160F Low Temp thermostat installed 12/2019 - Tinted car and added BBS E88 wheels 6 months later... The car was listed on BaT June 2020 Mr. Deezy confirmed in writing during the auction - "The car needs nothing" The listing included the "IMS Solution", but later found out to be a mistake and was not corrected Sold to "Flying Pizza" for $41,250.00 Buyer lives in Florida and meets Mr. Deezy at airport in California to pick up car No PPI was requested Buyer drives the car back to Florida Buyer experiences engine failure on the drive back. Car is stranded in Texas The car was examined by a shop in Texas, but buyer decides to tow the car to Flat 6 Innovations to fully diagnose the cause of failure The car is currently being held for engine disassembly by Flat 6 Innovations

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Quotes source post: 16859642

LOL...your M97 engine is prone to some of the same engine failures son ...and worse still replacing the IMS is far more labor intensive and expensive than M96 engines..but you knew this already as you are up-to-date on all your Rennvision vids and you are just being funny Mr. Bjorn Borg...cheers

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As he admits on his BAT youtube videos...He did a lot of the service HIMSELF...He did plugs and a deep sump..etc...but didn't know what an IMS Solution is??? There is a saying for that...COME ON MAN!!! The guy is exploiting our love for these cars as he so clearly did to the buyer of the Targa...he knows how to say all the right things...post good pictures..instilling confidence in the buyer..until you get burned...PCA and VU need to ban him from posting in the "mart" as well...the predatory POS!

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How in the hell does one refurbish a 28 core microprocessor?

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Thanks for outing yourself friend of the seller! Misrepresenting an IMS Solution is no small thing PERIOD! A car has to go through the QUALIFICATION process (be free of material in the engine) by any installing dealer! You know damn well as does the seller that most basic PPI's won't show engine health..That is why JR and Charles Navarro have always said to do a invasive PPI's that includes dropping the sump...The seller openly brags about how his buyers don't do PPI's and you defend him. "sellers gonna sell" and screw over people...

Quotes source post: 16860900

this is (or used to be) a small, tight knit community of people who looked out for each other. If you look at older posts on here many people have been outed for less than ethical behavior. Untold money has been saved. I realize you may have the "fvck it, I got mine" attitude. Most people do. Since everything else is being banned these days, let's go ahead and ban these types of posts. Everything can be rainbows and unicorns with no warnings about anyone. Then, when you inevitably get screwed one day, you can say, " somebody should have warned me!"

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Wipe the thermal paste off.

Another 996 engine fails and that�s a surprise somehow? If this engine were easier to work on and rebuild, there probably wouldn�t be a need for flat 6 innovations and their many modifications to make a 300hp engine live longer.

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There are no surprises here. Everyone is aware that there was, in some form, misrepresentation / lack of information by a seller for a car of this community. And this was not this individuals first instance. Fool me once...., Like billh said, the car community used to, and I hope still today, will look out for each other.

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I would agree if the seller wasn�t on this site and others fluffing up the sales and then attacking others. I�m very wary when sellers don�t answer questions on BaT. It�s not like they miss them.

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I agree with this, however, from the moment that Jake Raby outed himself as the mechanic fixing this car on YouTube I have been interested in his contribution. Party on, Jake.

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LOL. That�s a steal , a new one cost over 35k.

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You beat me to it. I just upgraded the LN server and I was going to sell off the old Xeon chips (which cost me a lot new) and took the time cleaning them properly to remove all the old Arctic Silver. Too bad they were only worth $3 ea on eBay! Can't beat that depreciation!

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You didn't just say get a PPI, you said others should butt out. Thanks for the work you've done on this BillH, that Sixspeed thread is an eye-opener. In that thread this same seller... (Edited, probably best for people to just go read it themselves. It ended with the seller being banned from Sixspeed.) https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/239523-kinesis-f110-wheels-cracked-must-see.html 100% relevant and great info for all. Does anyone think if the BaT buyer had seen that thread before the purchase this would have ended up the same?

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Your post last night was deleted before I, unfortunately, had a chance to read it. I can see that you are either not used to being challenged or are unconformable with that. Too bad. That seems to be all too common these days, as well. I'm not the only one who read your post a certain way. Others have chimed in as well. Anyway, enjoy your new car. It's a nice one and I wish you well.

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It's obvious that most of the posts on this thread seem to be seller-centric, but let me offer a different angle as we ascertain the burden of responsibility for the condition of this car in this particular case. I know most of our suggestions are nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking, but it does help to educate us on better ways of vetting cars and their sellers especially when purchasing cars by online auctions where pre-purchase inspections are not allowed or easy to obtain. Let's begin, a little devil's advocate shall we? We all know that most states have very loose laws protecting buyers of used cars in private sales and so what level of burden is the seller (MrDeezy) under if this car was offered to be inspected before it left with the buyer (Flying Pizza)? The seller clearly posted all of the post-warranty service documents. These documents present a very clear picture of engine trouble the previous owner ( before MrDeezy) experienced with the car. In fact, the car experience catastrophic failure just after the IMS bearing installation. The engine was rebuilt by a company (405 Auto) that went out of business. Three independent service centers repaired this engine within a 3 year period because of complete failure. Is it possible the "ALL GERMAN AUTO" group did something wrong during the IMS bearing installation in 2013 that led to the failure just 9 months later? Maybe the original factory 6204 single row IMS bearing was failing and weakened the IMS tensioner paddle? We do know the 2015 engine rebuild was a direct result of failure from a broken tensioner paddle. Did the 405 Auto group do a good job at rebuilding this engine? The engine fails two more times afterwards in less than a 3 year, 15K miles period! Something doesn't sound right here with this engine! See the writing on the wall? Connecting the dots? A few months after the fuel pump failure, the previous owner ( before MrDeezy), decides to sell the car. But why so soon? He just dumped $17,000+ into this car within a 3 year period! You think he may just had enough of the money pit? Washing his hands clean and passing on a problem to Mr.Deezy? Well, it could be that the the fuel pump failure that happened right at June, 2018 was the "straw on the camel's back" and reason why he decided to sell the car to Mr. Deezy in September of 2018. Mr.Deezy only drives the car for 6K miles and most of the mods were non-engine related. He praises the car, but for some reason decides to also sell it less than 2 years later on BaT. Could he have seen serious problems arising? The BaT winning buyer (Flying Pizza) in this case met the seller (Mr. Deezy) at the airport and chose to NOT schedule an invasive pre-purchase inspection, but instead just pays for the car and drives off to Florida. Three states later, the engine fails. Hind sight is 20/20. (no year 2020 pun intended) Did the buyer miss all the obvious cues in the invoice(s) posted during the auction that would have prompted an invasive PPI? He passed and now total engine failure. The term "IMS Solution" was listed on the 405 Auto invoice, but the buyer didn't notice the absence of the oil feed tube. The "IMS Retrofit" sticker was shown in the auction. The buyer did not ask for clarification, or did he? Was there enough red flags in the invoice(s) to warrant concern or a possibility of future engine trouble? Mr. Deezy posted in the comments that "the car needed nothing". Was that an honest mistake or was he clearly hiding the truth. Where is the burden? Thoughts?

This thread is deteriorating quickly. Lets all move on and enjoy our cars. If the current owner of the car finds this thread and would like some opinions we can offer them. Too much speculation and name calling.

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To get to the root of the matter...the TRUTH...is very often an ugly process...it always WILL be...but we should not turn away if we truly care...what was the saying...oh yeah...."You Can't Handle the Truth!!!"....Wonder what JRaby thinks of "A Few Good Men" being a former Marine...only a few good men in this thread lol..but such is life.... Hey Aaronjb_ME....You mean to tell me you are a Mainer bro?...As it happens...I know a few people out that way...some who work at the Department of Justice office in Portland...some who work at BIW.. You don't happen to have spent some time at Naval Air Base Brunswick before it shut down did you? So just to be clear...Aaronjib_ME of Maine...You are an advocate for this Boiler Room...pump and dump...charade by MrDeezy ehh? Good for you...I'm NOT...I'm guessing "The Wolf of Wall Street" is also a favorite movie of yours given said mentality. I bet you don't resale/flip any cars either for profit...do you? You are in this for the love...just a pure soul. It is interesting though...how just like MrDeezy...you politically ATTACKED Billh1963 just like MrDeezy policitally attacked Jake Raby earlier in this thread...The wording was uncanny..but then you deleted that....I swear...if I didn't know any better...I might of thought the two of you were twins...or maybe even...Mrdeezy's sock puppet account...that's how they read....don't shoot the messenger ..and thanks for the cute keyboard warrior threats... I also must add...how you have an entire thread on your recent purchase of a silver 996 with Maine appropriate colored "Lobster" interior..but we should all somehow all "shut up" about this Targa transaction...how nicely hypocritical of you....

Yikes guys. This is a crummy situation but could we cool it with the personal stuff? "I disagree with you, and here is why." Jeez. I don't have near enough the clout to say this but regardless I order you all to climb aboard your personal 996 and take a few laps around your neighborhood. While you're driving remind yourself why you're here.

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How Could you forget Dr_Strangelove...Fighting is not allowed in the War Room You Tube

Juiciest...thread...ever. Recency bias perhaps but still, juicy AF.

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For real..there is enough drama here to make a Hollywood Movie !! Just throw in a sex scene, some nudity/leg shots and have a "box office hit", you could even write the ending any way you want it and it not matter.

Just to go from topic to way off topic and back to topic.... A friend of mine just had an invasive PPI done on a 996 in New England. Oil was clean, filter was clean. Engine was quiet, no ticks, no smoke out of the tailpipes. #5 cylinder was scored. Scoring wasn't severe, but noticeable enough that he passed on the car. As Jake stated earlier get an invasive PPI done and be willing to write off a few hundred dollars in the process. The question is, how many times can you do this?

I just got back, Wow, this has gone south fast!

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Bore scoring may not be a deal killer if it's not severe, you get a discount on the car, a and you start laying away money to rebuild the engine in the future. I don't know that I would pass on a car that was what I wanted AND the price was reduced.

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You can do this numerous times and still be ahead of the game compared to an engine reconstruction cost. However, not scored today doesn't mean not scored in the future. As I think about this knowing what I now know and I bought a 996 with that knowledge I might have just scheduled an engine reconstruction shortly after buying. The peace of mind from knowing every time I start the car the engine is not likely to deconstruct itself is very valuable to me. That's just me though.

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Pretty much describes what I did. I wanted an early '98 build and had already planned on the spend for the Stage II.

Back in February i posted something along the lines of "If i knew then what i know now, i would have bought a roller and shipped it off to Jake or bought a car with one of his engines already in it.". Jake happened to mention about a 997.2 4s with a 4.0 Stage II track engine that another RL was selling. I bought it. If my 996 ever blows it will be off to Georgia as well.

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What caused the 9A1 to fail?

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Bore Scored at 76k miles. There's a video about Jake's engine teardown/diagnosis of it. You Tube

The best deal is to buy a roller, and get in line. More people are doing this every year. Just make sure that no one has removed the engine, or disassembled it- if they have, I won't accept it. Looking at these cars is a lot like the days I was doing pre- flight inspections on military helicopters. If you look hard enough, you'll find a "downer" on most every aircraft. It all came down to how much we wanted to fly that day, and how big the risk was. Using an earplug to stop a fluid leak will sometimes get you in the air with only minimal risks, and I'm still here to prove that. These cars are much the same, how bad do you want to be able to instantly drive? This is the problem.. People are doing some PPIs, and finding things, but they are in such a mad rush to own the car, that they make a critical mistake that costs them thousands of dollars, and months without the car. Instant gratification, and "Amazon syndrome" has killed our society. This is why I now make people review, and consider my proposals for 3 days before I will allow them to sign on the dotted line, and start the processes. The key is the invasive inspection, to know what you are buying. Then you can take whatever degree of risk that you are willing to accept, based on the findings. Going into this with nothing but a hope and a prayer isn't working for many people. In the last week I've had two more reports of new buyers with near instant failures, and one was a 997 turbo; the other a cayman S. The "perfect car" isn't the one with a certain mileage, it isn't the one with a certain options package, it isn't the one in a certain color, nor is it the one with a certain interior. The perfect car is the one with a proven drivetrain- you can restore the entire car, repaint or etc for less than the cost of a proper engine. This is why well- sorted cars, fitted with a proven engine that is fully documented are in such high demand. This will continue.

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WOW. Was not aware the 9A1 was susceptible to the bore scoring issues.

Every P car has its list of issues. Its part of the brand. If you first, cant afford one and second, afford to pay for repairs, then buy a honda. Brilliant marketing from our favorite sports car. No, seriously. Great cars but Social Media and aftermarket parts sellers like to hype the weaknesses of these cars. I have been driving P cars for 40 plus years now. Great cars. Sure, I paid to rebuild a 2.7 and a 3.2 at mileage less than my F150 or kids 250k mi honda. But these are Porsches and the club requires the understanding that they have issues. Some expensive and some not. Many do not. I still enjoy my toys and P cars will remain part of them. If you cant afford to pay for service and repairs dont buy a P car out of warranty.

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Amen to that! Feb 2021 can't come soon enough.

wowza! this escalated quickly. Some of my takeaways from this situation as a new future potential owner learning and searching for the right car: - get a PPI. No questions about it. Invasive one if possible. How many times is up to your pocket. Potentially setting yourself a budget for the car search could be a good idea. If you burn through it and still no luck it may be wise to take a break. - has anyone heard of Apple and Apple tax? Maybe not exactly the same but it's pretty safe to say that there is a Porsche tax. If you're not prepared to pay it then move on. It's there for the car itself and all and any maintenance in most cases. Yes, there are exceptions. - Porsche tax seems to show it's head a lot with these engine rebuilds, it seems. I don't know yet if there is something super unique about a Porsche engine that makes it cost $20k - $30k to rebuild. Does it cost the same to rebuild a much newer engine that is more tech advanced and chock full of sensors and electronics? I don't know but I'm writing this off again as the Porsche tax. To avoid getting flamed I'll say, NOTHING NEGATIVE AGAINST JAKE AND FLAT6. Actually thank you for the wealth of knowledge you've provided. Having said that, You're able to charge the high price tag, well because people are willing to pay it. It's a business and you need to turn a profit and that's ok. Is there something very unique to the rebuild process as compared to other engines? Maybe, but again that's where you value your work and experience. I'm sure there also has to be an aspect of passion involved to spend time to put together the educational videos and time on here, so thanks for that. - (This is just my personal opinion and take away from my recent research and not meant in a negative way) I've been in sales all my life and selling by fear is not the most effective route. Yes it can work but it can also put off some people. Titles like "When Dreams Become Nightmares" might tend to scare off potential buyers of a 996/997 and a potential future client. It makes it seem like there is really no other option if they want to keep the car. Based on my current reading as a new member, my take away is that all cars will eventually get bore scoring and end up in the "morgue". It also seems that's definitely not true. There is another thread here with a soon to be 500k mile 911 that is still going strong and thousands of other happy drivers that maintain the car and drive it like it's meant to be driven. Jake, keep on educating as you have but loose the "fear factor". If someone is smart enough to find your resources they will get it. - I'll end it with the fact that learning about thee cars has been an eye opener for me. Love it. At the same time it's also quite surprising that a company like Porsche that is mainly associated with sports cars has had such serious issues with their engines. Especially now, that we are learning that even some of the newer cars are suffering from the same problems. What we don't hear about as often and unfortunately is about all the positive experiences. Glad there is a separate thread on that.

In the case of my friend passing on the car, he intends to track the car (DE) and would rather start with a not-scored (un-scored?) engine. Then with some add-ons like a deep sump, UAOS, up to date maintenance, let the chips fall where they fall.

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Glad Bronz's car ended up at a good home. There's a 62 page (!!) thread on this car over in the 997 forum back when the bore scoring first happened, that lead to all sorts of hand-wringing: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...e-failure.html Fortunately there have only been a small number of documented 997.2 scoring cases as it looks like the changes Porsche implemented in the 9A1 engine have been very successful. That being said, frequent oil changes and easy does it until the oil is at temp are really good advice on all these engines.

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That makes sense. My statement was in the context of a normal weekend driver. You can go a long time with a mild case of bore scoring before it becomes an issue. A track car? Different animal entirely

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Take some time and start pricing some of the parts you'll need for an engine rebuild. Some of the ones who have done it themselves have shared their costs....you'll be amazed that virtually every one is over $10K in parts alone....... As far as Porsche engines and problems. Well, that seems to be true from the mid '70's air cooled cars through the present. All have their issues and all can be addressed with time and $$.

I hope this is a simple question. Given all the proper parts and equipment, approximately how many TOTAL man-hours to properly rebuild a M96 engine?

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My friend and I rebuilt an M97 in about 2.5 days at about 7 hours per day working at a slow but consistent pace. Had to separate case halves one extra time due to a non-seated wrist pin clip. Thats from bare parts to fully built longblock. Intake/exhaust and accessories is another day for an individual.

Mrdeezy still has this model year '99 with 99000 mile Dual Row up on ebay that he's owned less than a month which interestingly enough he pulled from rennlist marketplace being the honest broker that he is ( https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1209209)..it's bullet proof I tell you..dual rows never go bad..."Car Needs Nothing!"..oh wait..that was the Targa..this one is..."Car runs and drives PERFECTLY" folks...the sellers trustworthiness you can bank on this time as he pulled this one into his garage and knows how to show a good under carriage of the car but somehow doesn't know what an IMS Solution is...get your bids in now...I am sure Mrdeezy will be fully down with an invasive PPI now for sure... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-Porsch...97.m4902.l9144

Over $10 000 usd in parts to rebuild our engines ... geez ... Guess I better start buying some parts. That LS swap is looking more and more attractive as an option - or better yet, a 5.0 coyote!

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Doesn't a Coyote start around $7,500? That doesn't leave much wiggle room for the parts/modifications to hang it in the car...?

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The last time I did a cost analysis, my annual average per engine builder was 86 hours of prep/ machining/ assembly. This was starting with all components in the customer's bin, and completing it, ready to be installed into the car.

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There is a lot of manhours consumed with teardown, cleaning, inspection, prep and etc. Just the assembly work manhours does not tell the whole story.

I�m just some guy that knows a tiny bit about wrenching. I didn�t know a lot about M96s when I started looking at Porsche�s. There are two misconceptions that come up here often. 1). Jake is charging too much. 2). Jake is making a killing on each rebuild. 1). New cylinders and pistons for an M96 are going to run you $5k or more no way around it. The process to debond the old ones and install and rebond new ones into the case halves is complicated and expensive. For a typical V8 machining and pistons will be $1 to $1.5k. You cannot blame this on Jake or anyone else. It�s the design. 2). Add in all the other needed parts (there is a great thread here with details and prices from Porschetech3), and you are well over $10k-$13k not allowing for any uh ohs. Add in the hours Jake says it takes at any reasonable rate for technical service and you�ll end up over $20k. Now consider the tooling required to rebuild this engine. If you don�t have the tooling and experience, you won�t do it better yourself. The reason Jake runs a successful business is scale and efficiency. If someone else could do better for less, the market exists. I�d love to see all the naysayers show us how it�s done instead of just posting about it.

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Sure, of course. We tore it down in about 3.5 hours. He did the cleaning and inspection. Prep was about a day. Its no doubt a long process, but an enjoyable one.

A first engine rebuild should take several hundred hours of total time if we are being honest and thorough. And the likelihood of making a mistake is probably 50%.

To add to the comment above this board is 1 for 2 in recent rebuilds. Scotts seems to be holding up while yaz had a major issue within a couple of hundred miles. Have not heard from him in a while, hope he was just burnt out and did not burn his car down . Both good mechanics that followed Jakes videos 100%. Doesnt take much for a reman to go south.

To follow what was posted about 86 hours total time for a proper rebuild. I must keep in mind, if I were to undertake the project, some of these hours are ‘shopped out’. For instance, say you send your block to LN, heads to Hoffman etc; you account for some 20+ hours. Book rates vary depending on scope, but about 40 hours for tear down/assembly and 20 hours for drop and reinstall. But also add in the many, many hours getting the parts bin together at a reasonable cost.

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Before retirement I ran a large locomotive remanufacturing facility. Part of our work was the rebuilding of the diesel engines which produced hp up to and sometimes exceeding 4,000hp. Along with this experience we became involved in several quality processes(some good some B.S.). We also tinkered around with outside sales of our components. Different than rebuilding a flat six engine but still remarkably the same. A quality product costs money. A higher quality product cost more money. We ran with the definition that quality is meeting the requirements of the customer. We could build a lesser quality product for less money if that is what the customer wanted. We were careful to explain the downside of those decisions but it was the customer's call. A lower quality product will end up being more expensive because of a lower life span and the cost to replace when it fails. Take a look at Jake's process and compare it to others in the market. Add to that his experiences, testing and internal processes/workers. Jake builds a very high quality product, provides outstanding customer service and stands behind his engines. Does the reconstructed engine cost more than a Subaru rebuild? Yes, for obvious reasons. Is a Jake engine expensive? No, not for what you get. It is up to the customer as to what they want...the best or just good enough. I know that my decision was the right one for me... Am I a Fanboi? Yes...yes I am for good reasons. I stand by my decision and the reasons for it.

What�s priceless is the thing that everyone to date that has posted has missed completely. Its the hundreds of engines, and years of direct experience that was required to develop the engine combinations, and to understand what NOT to do. I often tell people that they are not buying a single engine from me.. That they are buying small pieces of several hundred. We should get back on track. The engine is coming out of this Targa tomorrow, and teardown will occur shortly thereafter.

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I'll get my thread going again shortly. Actually just started the re-rebuild this week.

I have nothing to add, other than the slight diversion of pointing out that I think that's my Speed Yellow 2002 Boxster S with its recently-completed 3.8L Stage II Track Performer engine in the background in the video. Carry on...

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Yep, that's all you! It's headed home today!

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Even with all of your instruction & lessons you've beaten into my brain between in-person class and your video series... I've found sometimes my own hands have to make the mistake to truly appreciate why you're harping on it so hard. The words above are truer than I think most people are able to appreciate. Even I cannot fully appreciate your words as comparatively I've only just begun my journey. I understand better with every new day of learning. For the price of experience, in my humble opinion, you charge a bargain.

Reminds me of an old saying: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

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They are coming up for less these days, especially if you take one from other than a Mustang. But I think that modular engine is too big to fit anyway ... but imagine if it could! Not that there is anything wrong with an LS. 86 hours of work to rebuild an M96 ... geez ... at around $25 000+ usd. So $33 000 cdn plus shipping the car ... ouch ...

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Even LS aren't cheap anymore at least at Speedway Motors:

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I have that sign hanging inside the chest section of my tool cabinet.

This owner is lucky in at least one way. When I asked Jake to rebuild my (1988 3.2) engine last year, his waiting list was 12 months long.

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My 2018 Gen 3 Coyote complete package under 15k. Engine/Trans/wiring Long block with Ford factory 460HP and 24 mo warranty under 10k

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I think you could get some sort of LSX with a tranny for less than that. Throw in a cam and ported heads and you would still come out under that. That is the beauty of the LS series, they are cheap and proven in many different configurations. If my engine blew I would think hard about that swap but the reality it I would probably choose a rebuilt flat 6 because it's unique and I would probably do a terrible job at swapping an LSX into my car lol. I was actually surprised to see that LSX swapped 911 on BaT recently go for a few bucks more than an FSI build.

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It would forever be a Frankenporsche. There's a lot more to it than just bolting a V8 in it.

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For sure, I am just saying you can find LSX engines cheaper than a crate. Coyote engines seem to cost more.

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Good luck fitting a coyote v8in a 996. Not saying that I wouldn�t like it to happen, but those engines aren�t compact like LS pushrod ones

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Agreed that the coyote is too big. Wouldn't it something though to put it in, or the Voodoo engine! Though I would certainly seriously consider an LS. But in 10 years as gas cars are severely restricted, maybe electric is the way to go. All that instant torque ...

I am glad this is turning into a great advert for Mr Raby. I have always respected your work and shared how knowledgeable you are on BAT, and also on every forum I could. This still reeks as a cheap promo grab from you. The last car on Bat with one of your engines went for less then the actual cost of what you charged for the engine, despite you cheerleading it until the final moment. It really kills the whole value of putting one of your 22-35k engines in a 996. Although I am sure your engines are excellent.... I am really clueless as to what I actually did wrong as a seller. I presented all relevant information I could, which is much more than any other 996 BAT auction out there. I advertised a car that I loved and spent about 50K on. If this car sold for 28k my guess is that we would not be here talking about this. I have no control over what people pay for things on BAT, I could lose money or do well. It is a big coin flip. The reserve on the car was 28K. Some of the strange threats and accusations have been disturbing on this thread. If you have a tinfoil hat, or a MAGA hat, I really don't care what you have to say. I am very accessible in many ways and we can speak in person if there is an issue. I see a lot of cowardice and self promotion here and its disturbing. Anything mechanical can fail, it sucks but its life.

Quotes source post: 16867493

Are you sauced up again? Jesus H man, do I need to post the screen shot that you still haven't acknowledged again? Let me spell it out very clearly for your bleeding heart to understand... THE CAR WAS REPRESENTED TO HAVE AN LN SOLUTION INSTALLED. BIDDERS ASKED FOR CONFIRMATION BECAUSE THERE WAS CONFLICTING INFORMATION VIA THE PREVIOUS OWNERS RECEIPTS. YOU DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE CAR WAS SOLD UNDER THE PRETENSE AN LN ENGINEERING IMS SOLUTION WAS INSTALLED. Thats the problem.

And just when I thought we had successfully changed the subject ...

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Quotes source post: 16867493

Glad to see you are back here. You also had nice things to say about that last car with my engine that sold on BaT. We never had any bad words, and I still haven't said anything against you, and I won't. Like I said, when I shot the video, I had no idea who the seller was, or that car had ever been on BaT. It didn't matter, and it still doesn't. My point then, and my point now has been that any buyer should demand an invasive inspection as part of a PPI before buying one of these cars. I said that very clearly in the video, and also that the buyer of the car did not have this inspection carried out. That was the whole point, and the only point. I stated that the car was bought in California, and was being driven home when it failed in Texas, which is a factual statement, and was confirmed when someone on BaT saw the car on a trailer in Alabama on the way to my shop. He posted that to the thread before my video showing the car at Flat 6 was even posted. He didn't know where it was going; but he saw it heading somewhere on a trailer. These things said, it was posted on a FB page that this engine had failed, and it was fitted with my IMS Solution, and on that thread the chatter was that possibly the IMS Solution failed. I looked under the car and proved it did not have a Solution fitted (absence of the oil feed hose) and I posted that, to end that chatter. I later posted the same thing here, which was again totally factual information. The BaT ad stated IMS Solution, and you failed to address a direct question from a commenter on BaT asking if the "oil fed permanent IMS Solution was fitted". That comment should have been addressed, and the "BaT Essentials" box should have been corrected before you allowed the BaT ad to go live. It's easy enough to miss that when reviewing the BaT ad, but the question from the commenter could have been addressed properly, and then you could have had BaT amend the "BaT Essentials" box and state that the correction had been made. The buyer was still convinced (and very happy) that the IMS Solution was fitted, even after the car had been taken to the shop in Texas. His very first submission ticket to me stated that the Solution was fitted, and therefore he didn't feel the failure was IMS related. He was stunned when I sent him the pics from under the vehicle, stating that the Solution wasn't fitted. Then, things here got interesting, as other members started searching and finding threads, and comments that you had made over the years. These things were then posted, and you then attacked me, for no reason, simply because it was easier to do that, (its always easier to be a victim than a failure) than it was to stand up, and admit to making those statements, which coupled together with this scenario to make you look like the bad guy. Those are things that you posted- not anyone else. The whole deal on the 6 speed online was also a factual experience that occurred, and involved you, in a similar scenario. These things again coupled to make you look like a bad guy. I don't think you are, and even though you attacked me, I realize that was just the easy thing to do, and you were baked in the corner, being hammered from every angle from people Googling the crap out of your username. You had a really bad day, but it probably wasn't as bad as the day the buyer had when he was on the side of the road. Now, in the same way that this thread was turned around to benefit me (mostly by others with pleasant experiences with me) you could have also used this thread to prove that you are not a bad guy, and not a bad seller. You could have handled things differently, and used this to enhance your integrity, and character. You could have been respected for admitting the mistakes, and accepting the responsibility. You could have continued to have dialogue with my customer, and in turn you could have been a hero. Instead, you chose to make things even worse for yourself. In closing I maintain that I have no bad feelings in regard to you. You said nice things about me, and supported what I have done for years. It is not too late for you to change your position, address the things that have been brought up here, and re- establish mature dialogue with the vehicle buyer. At the end of the day what has happened to you could have happened to anyone who has sold a vehicle. It even happened to the person who we interviewed as part of the "Focus on IMS Bearing Failure" video series. He had sold the car, and not even deposited the funds yet, when his 29,000 mile 996 (that he bought new) had an IMS Bearing failure within a day or so of the new buyer collecting the vehicle. He ripped up the check, and took the car back with no questions asked, and since it happened so quickly the title hadn't even been transferred into the new buyer's name. He then sold that car to me. Not stating that is what should have been done here, because that's too extreme, and I'd only expect this from a southern gentleman of 78 years old who still lives his life by the Golden Rule, like Pete does. I can't tell you what I would have done, because I don't know, I would just hope that my judgement and some prayers would have helped me to do the right thing. I hope to avoid ever having to make the decision. The engine is ready to be disassembled. @mrdeezy I have no problem speaking with you via phone. Shoot me a phone number, and availability, and we can talk. You can submit a ticket on the Flat 6 site, and I'll see it. Further, if you'd like to be a guest on Renncast, I can also make that happen. Trust that none of the exchanges with me will be hostile. You'll be treated with respect, even if I disagree with you.

I really love how Jake Raby is now mr Rockerfeller, great quotes and a great guy. I really appreciate your long winded response and I have followed your career for many years. Like I said, you coming out with this video hurt Will and I. I am not sure if you meant to do that. Will hit me up for money on sight, that certainly changed post sale thoughts. I was willing to work with him and figure this out, but by the time your video proposing that ( all ppi is necessary) with my former car in your garage bay and that is still legally in my name you are using to promote your business, I found that disgusting. When someone buys a car from you sight unseen and negotiates that is called "bad faith" that means that I move on. We had a deal and you wanted a cheaper price. That really irks me. I have no doubt that Mr Raby will make him a nice engine. I just really don't understand how this all ends up with people saying things that they have no clue about.

All I "meant" was share awareness of the importance of a proper, and thorough "invasive PPI" when purchasing these cars. That doesn't promote my business. I haven't performed a PPI in over 3 years, and have zero plans to ever perform another. This isn't the first video I have posted when someone bought a car, and it failed on the way home. We even had a purchaser of a similar car on Renncast a few weeks ago, when his car also failed on the way home, after I shared a video about that vehicle as well. I even had an edition of Renncast where we talked about the realities of buying these cars from auctions, and other outlets, and this was a couple of months before you sold your car. No one targeted you, and like I said, this has not ruined anything for you, as long as you take these punches on the chin, and ask for a little forgiveness in regard to what you had previously said about BaT buyers, as well as the 6 speed online fiasco. Will is a nice guy, and you are fortunate to have him as a buyer. I don't believe he's even upset with you, just disappointed.

Really?

Taking punches on the chin should be a Jake Raby prerequisite.Tell me how a ppi would have changed things Jake Raby? After 7 people came to look at the car and it had been through 3 shops. Your business had resulted in some great products. I think that is amazing for Will. The difference between a ppi and a warranty is a big stretch Jake Raby. Your business is based on these cars failing. I hope this all works out, but you have bought enough M96 cars to know that the owners never care. You can inform me how even a Raby ppi would let will know whats up. It really sucks, we are all car enthusiasts and things don't always work out. But I would like to know how anyone could have caught this? ?.

m96 whisperer ppi?

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Yes, failures drive the business, though I am used to people preaching about how I benefit from "un- necessary IMS products" being fitted to these cars, or whatever. Someone "getting this right" is something I appreciate. Thank you. That said, no one can state what a proper invasive PPI could have found, or not found. Stating anything like that here would be nothing more than assumption, since the engine has now failed, and things are tainted. I may be able to somewhat connect the dots with what I will find when the engine comes apart, but even then, nothing will be conclusive. I don't currently plan to share any of these findings, or do any further videos, other than what is shared with Will. I do reserve the right to change my mind, though. Did any of the 7 people who viewed the car have it inspected, in any way? In some of your posts here on RL previously, you had stated how you were amazed that BaT buyers didn't show up to look at cars, and how few of those people had ever looked at a 996. I wonder why this car had 7 people show up to look at it, when the others didn't have this happen? Of those 7 people, did any of them look under the car, and note that the IMS Solution hose wasn't notable? Did any of them ask about the IMS? I would think out of 7 of them, that someone could expand on what their observations of the car were. I think the engine has a couple of things going on. We likely won't be able to tell which happened as a primary, or secondary failure. Would I have been able to perform my invasive PPI and find traits that made me think this engine was failing? No one knows, and we never will. If I pulled the sump plate would I have found a piece of a timing chain link, or the retention clip for an intake lifter, (both being very common, early M96.03 failures) we will never know. Would I have found a piece of tin foil from an oil container (that someone didn't remove when filling the oil) sucked up against the oil pick up screen? I mention this because I have a failure here now that was owner induced in this exact manner. We will never know any of these things. An invasive PPI is just that, you can listen to things all day long, and you can plug in all kinds of devices to the OBDII port, but until you remove 13 fasteners holding the sump plate onto the engine, you can't see inside the soul of this engine.

Quotes source post: 16867782

A lot can be learned with filter and sump inspection. I've pulled a sump plate from an M96.03 engine that was driven 6 hours to my location, to have an IMS Solution fitted (sub 40K mile car) and immediately after pulling the sump plate I found a timing chain roller staring at me. The chain was ready to fall apart, but it made it to flat 6, from Louisiana with zero symptoms. Luckily the owner was staying locally, renting a car, and hanging out in the mountains while we did our IMS work. I was able to call him, and tell him to come see what we found in person. This was years ago, and when I really started mandating the pre-qualifications before IMS Retrofits were carried out. A few months later a similar engine came in, and we found a wrist pin retention clip laying in the sump, and again, the engine made no sounds, and appeared fine. Pulled it apart, and saved it. This is why "guilty until proven innocent" and "assume nothing; quantify everything" are two statements that we live by. A good inspector doesn't assume that everything is ok. They search out issues, and they look, and look trying to condemn what they are inspecting. All too often this doesn't happen because "the car runs fine". I grade my own work the same way, I do my best to break it, and to find issues that have no symptoms. As an example, this means interrogating DME's and looking for DTCs, even if there's no CEL illuminated- but don't stop there. Can I miss something? Damn right. I will always look, no matter what.

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Missed this comment earlier... Yeah, he got lucky.. I had a June slot left open for an employee to take vacation. The employee changed his mind, so that spot freed up, yet I was already at 13 months of bookings on the schedule. Since then, things exploded again, and my next available is now November 2021 for a completion.. We've never had this many engines in queue, and I'm closing the schedule till we catch up a bit, and get the queue back down to 12 months. Just adding names to the wait list..

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I have no experience with JR or FSI other than as a resource in the community. I watch his videos and cant for the life of me figure out why you are doing this, just poor judgement. Its not about him. Building a successful business, at the same time giving back to the community that supports you is no crime, and actually should be respected (used to be anyway where I come from). You could learn alot.

Wow! it's apparent that some people should not post while they are drinking...

Name-calling and threats after continued warnings are simply not allowed here, the thorny issue of the misrepresentation claims from this BAT sale notwithstanding. As a result, mrdeezy has gone on a vacation for a bit, but the hiatus may be permanent while we review the matter.

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I always wanted to design a keyboard breathalyzer for car forums and Amazon.

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Yup, Deezy got some big beer ***** all of a sudden!

I have the patient apart on the table.. It has been gutted, and I know what killed it. I collected my documentation, during he dirty processes, and now I have to measure everything up, and present the results to the owner. More later. It's been an interesting day around here.

Entertaining as this thread is, I feel obligated to get back on the topic of PPIs. Are there any disadvantages to borescoping the cylinders from the wrist pin plug in the block? You won't see the bottom of the pan, but you won't lose 8 - 9 quarts of oil in the process either.

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We've done things this way as well.. You can only see bank 2, and sometimes issues occur with bank 1 that you need to know. Also, you can't see the entire picture of all cylinders well enough, I don't believe. That said, you need to remove the sump plate, and the oil to do a proper invasive inspection, anyway. You can't do a full inspection, without removing the sump.

Thank you Jake!

Pulling the sump plate has other benefits as well, such as inspection of the oil pickup screen. And there could be debris on the bottom that was there from day 1. It�s easy to access and remove. For those wanting to save the oil, you could just purchase a new container (so that it�s clean) and put the oil back in when you are done.

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When all�s said and done we�re talking about 1st world problems. You drive a Pcar. It�ll cost you money. Does it suck to have to pay a big bill like this? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No. End result this guy will be driving one hell of a badass car that not only looks great, but has the sweetest engine you can buy to boot. Keeping perspective is easier said than done sometimes, but that is what it is here.

I think I'll just leave this right here.... Remember what I said about the importance of the invasive PPI?

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Yikes. Sure would like to know much oil that car has been consuming for the last few months. Hard to believe that was going on with no symptoms.

What is the discoloration on the top of the cylinder wall? Look like either an artifact of disassembly or some type of leak from the head gasket. And this engine supposedly wasn't ticking... How does this rate for bore scoring? I'm now visualizing the scoring I have as i have 2 cylinders with very clear ticking.

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But wait... There's more. ....and more. and more... That used to be an exhaust lifter....

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You should start a thread where you post random pictures of destroyed things and we can all try and guess what it is...

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I've done it before.. We play "Name that part".

IMO this is how it should be looked at: owner will have a car with an awesome color scheme, fantastic stance, killer wheels and a smooth beast of of an engine that will last him 100k + miles. What�s not to love??

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I think it's the $75K.

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Why focus on the negative. Life is too short.

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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let�s not bicker and argue about who killed who.

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Exactly why focus is not on the negative. But again only IMO.

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Oh, he'll have new tires too...

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$41k and bald tires? WTF??

He also might wanna check that alignment....

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Look close enough in the bottom pic, and you'll see that there's more going on than just the bald tire.. Think alignment, and look closely.. It's staring right at you.

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Something missing here? 3 of em??

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There's a drop link dangling and the sway bar is missing but I assume you must have done that in your teardown. Worn rear toe arms?

Damn. Was gonna say bent arm but thought that was too obvious. Aren�t there 3 bolts amiss here?

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That bent link is about as straight as a piece of spaghetti.. I have videos of both sides, the other side is straight.

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Jake, do you ever sleep?

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Usually about 2-3 hours per night.. Unless I am busy.

Mr.Deezy has awakened a sleeping dragon.

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100k +++ miles is my expectation with proper break-in procedures and maintenance

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�Tis but a scratch

Let's do a reverse of this subject If some is preparing there car for sale, it cost at least a few hundred dollars for a professional photographer. If a COMPLETE PPI , (with Bore Score look at) cost $500 - $700, how would a seller react to a provided PPI work? I think most of us would do a fresh oil change any way as part of prep for selling. Obvious reasons it would have to be done a a well known shop with a stellar reputation. Would this be proactive, or would the seller be wasting money? ____________________ The past 10 days i have paid for two different PPIs on 2014 Cayennes. I purchase neither.

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I had a fellow call me yesterday, to inquire about the 996 that I am using for the "Focus on IMS Bearing Failure" video series. I told him I had committed to selling that car on BaT already, and that its not for sale till it can see the auction. He then told me how he's had several 996s invasively inspected, and every one of them (2-3) has had some level of bore scoring, resulting in money well- spent in regard to the inspection fees. I've always had a whole lot to lose, as a seller of anything. I hate to sell stuff so much that I usually just keep it, or wait till someone I know wants something, and I can let them drive it for a couple weeks, have it inspected, or etc. I then don't have to worry about dealing with the wrong guy. That means that it may take me two years to sell something, which is how long it took for the right guy to buy my 964, and he loves it. I'm selling all my Porsche cars, except my 912E, and I'm not looking forward to the experience. I think the key to being a successful seller, is setting a realistic expectation for the car, in the way the vehicle is advertised. I tend to show more of the flaws the car has, than the positives. That may not result in the biggest net sale price, but it will help to alleviate the possibilities of an over- expectation. This scenario has made me think about how I will prepare the black 996 with 29K miles, when the video series is over, and it is time to list it for sale on BaT. I believe the best way to do this is to video my version of a PPI for this car, and show everything that I can think of, from a very objective point of view. I'll then have to hope that the right person ends up buying the car, and that he watched every video, and asked every question that he could think of. At the end of the day, I think my only choice would be to give the buyer a period to drive the car, and have it inspected himself upon arrival; then offer a period of time (maybe a week) to allow the car to be driven, and allow the buyer the opportunity to deny it, for a full- refund. There would be some rules of engagement; no over revs, only allow 500 miles to be driven, must be returned without body damage, and the buyer has to pay return shipping. When the car is received, as it was shipped, the refund is given in full- no hard feelings. I can't think of another way to do this in today's world, when someone has everything to lose with just one car being sold. Yep, its a huge hassle, but is much better than the alternative... That's just my perspective.

In case anyone had doubts about the intentions of Mr Sleezy, the photo of the dangerously worn tire should give you the answer. The buyer could have died on the way home.

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It won't stop at $75K! "Sleezy-Deezy" strikes again!

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Jake - What happened to that exhaust lifter, the bore scoring couldn't have led to that, could it? Did the car lose timing or oil pressure? I get the feeling there's more to the story... Please let the buyer know we appreciate him sharing the info with us.

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Two counts of tire / wheel negligence, potentially putting lives at risk, and had the gall to play victim and call people names. "Man continues to shovel his own grave and gets angry at onlookers that it keeps getting deeper"

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The engine had more than one problem.. Bore scoring wasn't what drove the failure, it was just a bonus. It is what would have been found if the car would have had an invasive PPI, and that is the fault of the buyer, and he knows, and agrees that he should have gotten the PPI. With the sump plate removed, I could have found this cylinder 6 bore scoring within 5 minutes of inspection time. Yes, there's more to the story, and I connected the dots. I have 175 photos, and 16 videos of the internals, as I had to document all of this exceptionally well for the buyer. We always well- document, but this case warranted more than normal. Get a freaking invasive PPI! How many times will this story play out before people start listening, and acting!

It's too bad. I was holding out hope that it was just an unfortunate series of events. But no. Makes me a little sad.

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Jake, are we seeing a broken valve guide or seat? Or is a bent valve hanging open?

So basically end game of this drama thread is that irregardless of the catastrophic failure the buyer had on the way home, this engine would have eventually needed a complete rebuild due to bore scoring. The buyer ultimately saved having to hum and ha about it later on and waiting even longer to secure a build slot. Seller is was no different than any typical used car dealer.... you're buying someone else's problem. I'd be really curious on how many 996's go through ppi's where there is absolutely no scoring present by now. Seems like almost all of them will have some form of light/moderate scoring after 20 years and you either pass that on to the next buyer or eventually deal with a rebuild one day depending on how many miles are being driven.

Those look to be valve guides that have dropped down out of the head. That is never good. I would presume from the last "rebuild" - improper head refurb.

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WTF? So was the valve guide loose to begin with or is this collateral damage? Edit: Noting that those are probably the cleanest ports I've ever seen, how many miles since head work? Can't be many.

Some people take Jake�s info as doomsday scare tactics. For myself, it has simply made me a more educated 996 owner. I�d say he�s doing it wrong if he was all about �scaring people� into throwing their money at him because I�ve never paid Jake Raby a dime. He has continued to share info with the community which in turn has helped me to keep a better eye on the health of my engine. Tell ya what though, he�s also where I�m going if my M96 does finally decide to give up the ghost someday.

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Yeah...that ain't good...not good at all.

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This is the bank 1 cylinder head. The intake valve guides have all slipped from their bores. While we have seen this before, we've never seen this happen to more than one guide in a single cylinder head. This head will be throw away, along with many other parts. We'll have to replace the cylinder head, and then update the guides, and seats, the way we always do. While all of these things were wrong (and more) I do not believe that this was pre- medidated by the seller. There's no way that the seller could have known about the majority of these problems, and the sump and etc had not been removed recently, so its not like someone had just found the scoring, and sold the car. The other issues could also not have been known, with the exception of the tires, and possibly the suspension link, unless you have the invasive inspection done. Unfortunately, this all falls on the buyer, because he didn't have the car inspected, and just took the word of the seller, that the car "needed nothing". Since the seller had a lot of data in the ad, to include repair invoices, data from the Durametric, and etc the buyer felt very confident with the purchase, and therefore he didn't have the invasive inspection carried out. He understand this, and he is "paying the tax" on that decision, and doing so without complaint. He is a solid guy, and he has been a joy to work with, especially under such adverse conditions.

My 02 996 suffered a cracked valve seat at about 108k miles, which led to a full rebuild (with nickies) prior to my purchase. There was no bore scoring. I basically bought a freshly rebuilt 1,000 mile engine with a car attached to it.

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Very common issue with the early 2002 M96.03 engines.

Wow a lot has happened since the last time I checked this thread today. Shame everything that has been going on here and selling a car with those tires certainly isn't a good look. That is a relatively cheap fix for a car that sold for as much as it did and how well it showed. I think managing expectations is always a delicate balance, whether it be selling and item or a service. However, there is a difference between setting expectations and flat out not addressing something that could be dangerous. Even setting when setting expectations many people just hear what they want to hear. Sometimes for me its hard to tell people that I cannot spend 15 hours polishing their car for $200 bucks. I have a cool older Mercedes Benz Diesel in right now for prep for sale, they want to put it on BaT. For a 40 year old car I would say its in pretty excellent shape. Nothing that seems out of ordinary for an older car, some door dings and scratches but it has a lot of etching for 40 years of bird droppings and sap. I explained that the paint could use a machine polish but they did not want to spend the money, that is fine but I had to explain that all of the marring and etching wasn't going to come out. The car looks good cleaned up but we will see what they think.

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It's fact over fear. People only learn from seeing things happen to others. Awareness has saved people tons of money, and that is especially true with bore scoring issues. I am fed up with getting the same phone call and submission tickets "I just bought a 996 xx weeks ago, and now....." We've had two of those calls this week, and one submission ticket. All 3 of these have bore scoring, and one was sold by a dealership that had a PPI that didn't show the issue. All 3 of the buyers were first time Porsche owners, and all of them have no idea what they are going to do. I spend a lot of time talking to these people, even if I know they won't wait long enough, or pay the price for my engine, sometimes over an hour.

Quotes source post: 16870363

Particularly deceptive since the BAT posting included four tire tread depth measurements showing between 5/32 and 7/32 tread remaining. Those measurements don’t accurately communicate the actual condition of the tires. My guess is they were not taken over the appropriate TWI bars.

Not to derail the thread, but once an engine is rebuilt with nickies, is the bore scoring essentially not an issue any more? Of course you still want to maintain proper oil changes at prescribed intervals but if that is followed, is it safe to say that bore scoring should be a non-issue? I say this knowing that there are no guarantees in life but just genuinely curious.

I attempted to look at this whole thing objectively as possible, but it doesn't take long googling and you see a different picture of the character of Mr. Deezy. I know some of his posts on this thread have been deleted, but one time he claimed he "won" the court case that involve his "deceptive" selling of poorly repaired wheels as discussed in 6SpeedOnline. In his recent post here on RL, he stated it was the fault of Wheel Dynamics and he "won in court". This lone post from the buyer of those defectively repaired wheels tells a different story. Looks like the buyer won and Deezy didn't want to pay up. Maybe there was another lawsuit against Wheel Dynamics? I don't know, but this is really bad.

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This needs to be a new thread, BUT you need to view my bore scoring series at www.rennvision.tv as it addresses this question many times over the 7 hours of content.

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Hi Jake, are there any ways to detect this issue in advance? Before the intermix.

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No. BTW- Was just reviewing my dialogue with the buyer from his initial messages with me. He shared the crankcase manometer reading with me (measured at 4.4") and I said "With the manometer reading at 4.4 INWC at sea level, I'd strongly suspect a cylinder sealing issue". I am connecting more dots today. Yup...

Looks like the cylinder head became the valve guide.

Quotes source post: 16870924

There are no absolutes, but boring out the original lokasil cylinders and going with a proven Nikasil plated bore virtually eliminates cylinder bore scoring as shown in the Mezger engines. As noted in Jake's bore scoring series on YouTube, there is more to the bore scoring equation that he corrects in the reconstruction process at Flat 6 Innovations.

...

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they let you back in here? Welcome back

Quotes source post: 16871216

It's B3 - Holy shyte!!!

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Why? Welcome back b3!

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Thanks! That's the answer I've been looking for. Having watched some of the videos already I understand that things like, right oil, properly operating clean injectors and not letting the car idle while it runs rich (gas washing off the oil) are important here but was wondering about the nikasil bores as they seem to be a pretty big piece to this puzzle.

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Both of these things can exist in the same universe. The seller can be both deceptive and the buyer can be guilty of not doing his due diligence. Obviously in this case it was a recipe for disaster. The other reality is without the seller having done an invasive PPI himself he would have no way of knowingly sold a car that was scheduled to blow any day now. Unfortunately it looks like there was some other stuff that wasn't represented well here and that is just shady business. I do understand peoples desire to pile on, as enthusiasts no one wants to see a fellow enthusiast get burned. As, I've said, I have been there myself and while I was pissed and unfortunately there wasn't much I could do.

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Exactly. The mental gymnastics required to not see this are impressive.

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I hope that's not directed at me. I didn't offer any defense of the seller.

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I'm pretty sure my point is clear.

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Thank you, guys! Yes, they let me back in. It's good to be back so I can connect with a lot of my forum friends!

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Wait...who you are you again? The world is right again!

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Thank you, Bill! Don't forget, you have my personal address if you ever get bored of that FSI engined C4S!

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Oh come on be honest you snuck in when the guard's back was turned. Oh well I guess you're here now

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hahahaha... yea, I caught them at a weak moment I guess. Hey, this is a nice present for someone that has been battling COVID-19 for the last two weeks. yay!

Someone better start popping more popcorn for this thread, B3 is back and here !!

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Aren�t tire tread readings supposed to be 3 levels deep (inside, middle, outside)?

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😳😳😳

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Looking at the condition of the tires it shouldn't have even mattered because they should have just been replaced. I can understand not knowing the internal condition of your engine, let's be honest 99% of people don't but tires are unacceptable. I would have been embarrassed if I was selling a car that looked that nice and my tires were in that condition. They were flat out dangerous to drive on. I think this is a combination of a few different things, obviously, the seller's reputation being questionable, the car being described "as needs nothing" and an engine blowing up. If the engine doesn't blow, we never hear about the other stuff and the transaction probably goes smooth enough where we never even hear about it.

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the tire is essentially bald. I�m happy the buyer didn�t have an incident. Shame on the seller for not replacing the tires. That is just wrong.

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Please pass me some, this potato of a thread has sprouted in every direction. ha!

I�ve driven a 996 with tires this bald.. all is well till you hit standing water. It�s a white knuckle ride and you are a very busy driver.. Luckily, the engine failed before the buyer hit any standing water, or had a blowout. The tires will have to be replaced before we can test the completed car.. It�s not safe to drive, or dyno.

� I see you have a 996 Porsche for sale, I am interested in purchasing it, but before doing so I would like to take it to my mechanic. He is going to have to disassemble the engine to inspect for bore scoring and more importantly an upgraded bearing deep in the engine. If I don�t like what I see I won�t buy it, but don�t worry he will put the car back just as he found it.

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Go away.

Quotes source post: 16871783

I guess this statement will sound a little crazy until we reach herd immunity.

Its a definite fine line between the inspections, and just buying the damn car, and hoping for the best. I think that cars that are proven to be free of bore scoring will sell for a premium. That means the seller taking it among themselves to collect the data, and proof. Based on the calls I am getting from people looking for these cars that don't have issues, I think it could add a few thousand dollars to a vehicle value.

I�d buy a car from Jake any day! I have a 3.8 stage II motor in my 996 and I LOVE IT!

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Don�t call it a comeback? Glad this is happening

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sometimes the truth hurts.

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Mrdeezy has another gem up on a couple harbor freight jacks. Maybe you could help him take a look at some of his suspension components.

The door has officially been closed on this thread: https://mart.pca.org/ads/45866

Wow, that is actually what is posted on the PCA Mart! I'm astounded that they would allow that!

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And this guy wonders why he is being roasted everywhere he goes... He is his own worst enemy.. He won't admit any fault, can't accept responsibility, and has no accountability. Everything is clearly everyone else's fault.

Haha 🤣. What a jackass. I can�t wait til the new owner pops up on here. Hopefully it turns out well for them. Honestly, that car seemed like a fair price for nice colors/spec. However, based on sleezy deezys track history I�m sure there�s more than a few surprises. With that being said I would like to apologize if I offended anyone or broke any rules of rennlist. I felt like I held back quite a bit and didn�t say anything out of line towards deezy. Him on the other hand, said some pretty reprehensible things and I am shocked at how the moderators have handled it.

Quotes source post: 16874071

Jake, do you sleep 😴?! As I�ve gotten older, you really start to notice the high performing people in life do not require a lot of sleep. Wish I had been blessed with that ability. If I get less than 7 hours for consecutive nights performance degrades. My hat is off to you Sir! When does the 40R track performer hit BaT? Been warming the wife up to the idea of another P car...

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I�m sure the mods are on the east coast sleeping soundly by this time. They�ll catch it in the morning. Hopefully he gets banned from there too and the Porsche community can purge this clown 🤡. Fingers crossed for the new owner.

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Machines don't need sleep.. Just some lube, and they keep chomping! I don't know about selling the R40 on BaT now. I think I may change my mind and after the video series is up I'll wait for the right buyer.

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exactly. Even my wife and daughter are wise enough to check the tires before any road trip. pressure and tread appearance/conditions. Any weird pulling or vibrations are also questioned. how did the new owner not see/feel this in the first few miles? After not seeing the Solution and observing the tire conditions, I'd be on next plane home. Deezy slapped lip stick on a pig and got a uninformed car person as a buyer. Perfect storm.

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Yep. Gone this morning.

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Probably the tires were fine when the buyer picked up the car. That much suspension misalignment could easily wear the tire like that in 1,000 miles, especially if it created a lot of toe-out.

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understood. if this is true, what's to say damage on suspension happened on the journey home? Appreciate my dad being a car guy and knowing how to read tire manufactured dates and what wear bars are. Passed this info on to next generation....

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I looked for any signs of recent impacts, or impacts at all. None were found, not even up front. Also, there were no signs of impacts to the suspension link. Someone using the link to jack the car up with makes the most sense to me, but that is purely speculation at this point. I did interrogate the ECU and found that the over revs had not increased from the auction, to the current rev counts. I documented this as well. I need to look at the date codes on the tires, I keep meaning to do that, but keep forgetting.

Yikes ... I saw this on BaT and saw how much it was going. Crazy stuff

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The mobile version had me in stitches because of the PCA standard send-off.

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This situation sucks, but Jake is really good at making lemon aid out of M96 lemons.

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Practice makes perfect...

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Perfect practice makes perfect?

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Perfect practice perfection perfectly makes perfect PERFECTER. Who can top that?

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Wanna trade black 996's?

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Wow, nice and classy! I hope the new buyer makes out better than the last.

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"Practice makes perfect" comes from imperfect practices that were originally practiced imperfectly until later perfected?

Mr. Deezy joined 996outpost to continue his bashing of Jake and got carried away. He got banned in 6 posts

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Mrdeezy wasn't a student of history... after three bans from three major Porsche forums it's obvious his mouth is his worst enemy and speaks the truth of his character. Al Gore will probably ban him from the internet next.

This has all been a great lesson in how not to handle yourself when it comes to selling a car online. Probably should have just remained quiet but instead started attacking people on multiple fronts.

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Sense of entitlement coupled with an unwillingness to take responsibility for one's actions. Lots of that going around lately, must suck to be that miserable.

He just needs to realize that his only enemy, is himself. No one singled him out. His inability to assume responsibility for the things he had said, and the way the car was marketed has created this monster for him If he would have simply came here and said "Hey guys, yeah, I screwed up. I should have answered the questions about the IMS Solution on BaT, and I should have clarified in the listing that the engine was not fitted with an IMS Solution". If that would have been said, more than likely he would have gained respect. Instead he chose to play victim, and make this all my fault, for sharing what I witnessed personally with the car in question. He came here and identified himself, I never even said "Hey this is so and so's car"... It would have been just as easy to assume responsibility for the things that everyone dug up about him, as it was to sit here and fight every single person that has countered him. In 2020 it is easier than ever to become a victim, than a failure.

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The most annoying part about individuals like deezy is how quick they are to make accusations that they themselves are guilty of. Pot. Kettle. Black. Hypocrisy. And news flash, if you think everyone else is a naive *******, you may want to look in the mirror and do a little self reflection.

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Not only did you not identify him, you made a point to say you didn't think he could have known about what you found unless that has changed that last few days. So instead of just addressing the other issues, he made it way worse than it needed to be.

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Exactly. I never said that this was a malice- driven sale, or that anything was done on purpose. I truly do not believe that it was. It was a bad scenario, and if anything the buyer is the one at major fault- which I have said before. The point is for people to not just trust what a seller says, but to quantify the vehicle/ engine condition themselves, or through a 3rd party. I have another message that popped up today from a new owner of a 997.1.. I guarantee that if this car would have had a PPI the IMSB would have been found at Stage 3 failure, with debris in the oil/ filter /sump. Instead, people believe that there's no way that a car with 19K miles can have any issue, so they just buy it. This is now happening every damn week, and it gets old.

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Ugh...Brutal.

Yeah.. He bought the car from the original owner, too. I told him to go watch the "For Pete's Sake" video and compare notes with that experience.

I bought my car with a Stage II engine to avoid all those issues. The PO bought the car with 30k miles on it, drove it a couple of months and blam went the IMS besring. A year later he had a Stage II engine it in. I'm sure there are lots of stories like that. Low mileage cars with Porsche recommended oil change at 15k miles, which works out to one, maybe two on this car, are just ticking time bombs.

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Exactly the case with the car today. The new owner called me.. Said "The car went to Porsche religiously for it's annual oil service"... Hell no, that isn't enough.. As clearly is validated by his experience in 48 hours of ownership.

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Indeed, when we bought our 03 C2 Cabrio Tip, in 2014, we mentally prepared the same. Someone once told me if you buy a Porsche, always have 5k under the bed.............he was wrong. Because 5k isn't enough. 4+ years later, car is running well and we're thinking all this 'fragile M96' talk is bogus and we decide to change the car for a 997 PDK. 2 days later, and before we advertise it, it develops a 'tick'. I was literally just pulling out from a petrol station and I thought it was a stone stuck in caliper or something, and pulled in. Car stopped moving, ticking stayed going..........no lights, good oil pressure, no misfire........I turned it off and called recovery and went to GA for holidays.......... Whilst on holidays my mechanic sends me WhatsApp messages with 'we found the problem' - and before you go all IMS/RMS/bore scoring on me ........it was None of the Above. No, rather, the lesser-spotted and by no means less destructive falling-out-of-the-head exhaust valve seat. €18k later it's fixed, all is well. I have virtually bought the car twice, really. Only downer now is the random ABS/PSM message has now popped up and frankly, I'm losing the will to live on it (ref https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...re-lights.html ) So, what's wrong with Camry's anyway, eh ? And the link to this thread ? well we are going to change the car next Spring, but if I'm honest, I'd have to fix it first: not fair to put on the next guy imho. Oh dear, this is going to hurt €€€€€

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Annual oil services wouldn't have been so bad, but it seems to me that this 19k 2005 car didn't get 15 oil changes from new. Maybe just one at 15k miles?

Jake sorry to go backwards in this thread, but did you ever share the actual cause of the engine failure in this car? I know it had bore scoring and valve guides that dropped, but were either one of them the primary source of failure or was there a third cause? I can only guess one of the guides froze and prevented a valve from returning and collided with a piston. From there everything was collateral damage. Just trying to wrap my head around how many ways this poor engine was improperly maintained over the years. Thanks.

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No, I have yet to disclose all of what I found. I did collect a ton of video, and photos in case we decide to do something with it later. I also had two verifiers on site during disassembly and had the surveillance camera catching all the action, too. There's been too much drama with this. I don't plan to keep that going, at this time.

@Flat6 Innovations Jake - sorry to hijack this thread, but with galwyatt mentioning 997.2 and watching your 997.2 disassembly bore score video, is there part 2 to it ? Any 9A1 videos planned ? Additionally, I own a 3.6 997.2 which had a motor replaced due to bore scoring in 2015 and had few questions (yes, its Canada and has been daily driven): Do you find more scoring on 3.6s or 3.8s ? From what I've seen 991s are having same issues, do you think 2017+ Turbo (718 or any 911) cars have resolved this or is this the curse of flat 6 and Porsche metallurgy ?

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Im not sharing much of what we�ve learned since 2010 with the 9a1 and newer engines. Sharing so much about the M9X hurt us, more than it helped us.

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Good idea. Based on how your free information is viewed here, I understand this position. I also don�t think your profit per engine is as high as many think. I do have some ideas on borescoring. Jake�s theory on the M96 is that raw fuel is pooling at the bottom of the cylinder and washing away the oil. The fuel evaporates instantly on ignition and metal on metal contact ensues causing bore damage. Old leaky injectors are the root cause. So the 9A1 series is DFI which uses even higher pressure fuel injection. I worked at Cummins for a bit and have seen very high pressure injection pumps in action. They are expensive very tight tolerance electro mechanical assemblies. Do I think the probability of DFI injectors leaking fuel into the cylinder is high? Well the pressure is high enough that I�d be very worried about fuel quality, foreign material and quality filtration. Add to that, most people are always looking for bargain fuel which has more impurities and less detergent. Yep I�d guess based on leaking injectors, crap fuel, and a flat engine architecture, bore scoring is highly likely. Frequent oil changes, quality fuel, injector servicing, and frequent fuel filter changes would minimize risk, but never eliminate it.

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I give you props for sharing as much as you have in any regard. Especially with all the people that argue what you have seen. learned, and expressed first hand. The less spoken read and pay attention to your experiences, and it's greatly appreciated.

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991s are having bore scoring issues? Geezuz One more reason to love my Mustangs!

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Actually more reason to snag any deal on a Mezger engined Porsche with Nikasil while you can.

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Don't have that much money Would love a Mezger car or even a FSI rebuild, but that's for people in a higher income bracket than me. If and when the engine goes on ours, will have to figure out what to do from there, ... I just jinxed myself, didn't I?

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What? You mean you don't have $100K sitting around or stuff down in the couch? hahaha Seriously, hard to beat the bang for the buck on American muscle cars.

Quotes source post: 16881210

My new rule is, unless someone has built at least one of these engines- I am not arguing with them. People that sit around and read crap, then mis-formulate that in their head, are the biggest enemy to the truth about these engines. Unless someone has direct experience with a repair, or a failure, they should just keep reading, or have a precursor to their statements saying "I've never done this personally, but I Googled it, and XXXX said XXXX about this.

Thanks for sharing, but totally understand the reluctance - I know LN has shared alot of good info and offered countless hours of responses over the years. I found few answers to my questions by going deep! Which I guess you and Baz have already answered. The next good one seems to be PDK failures, hopefully you guys can get into repair / reman units at some point. https://www.jzmporsche.com/news/gen-...g-smoking-gun/ http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128713 https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ailure-32.html https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...n-article.html

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$20-$25k 996 + $15-$20k engine rebuild = 996tt. 996 with FSI engine = worth $30-$45k 996tt = worth $45k However, there are some folks that prefer the way the Carrera drives and handles compared to the turbo.

Dont argue with the master of all things Porsche 996 Self promoting; sure. But free information is good from an expert. And, this free info comes with a cost of rants on occasion. If those bother anyone, dont read them. I try to keep in mind that some engine builders are better than others and ego plays a role in all of us. albeit some more than others. Keep up the good work. Carry on.

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I keep thinking about this and a GT3 is worth between $70-100K depending on condition and miles. Back when I restored my 71 that was about what an RS was worth at the time. (20 years ago) So people started to build RS replicas to get the same experience, but at half the price. Now early RS 911s are worth $500K+ and a good replica is worth $70-100K. If we are headed in the same trajectory as the early cars in terms of appreciation then building a GT3 replica engine may pay off if you keep the car long term. I am debating that now. Send my car down to FSI for a stage 2 build and spend $25K on it. Putting me at about $50k total into my car.....or sell it and buy a higher mile GT3. I don't think I really want a turbo because they are not as much fun as a NA RWD car, which is completely subjective. That being said a really clean Aero kit car seems to be worth closer to $30K now. So if you have a clean Aero car with an FSI engine and sorted suspension you essentially have a GT3 replica in terms of looks and performance. Is that a $45K car? If so then it may be totally worth the engine rebuild.

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When talking canadian dollars, it is much more for us. $25k for the car and another $33k for FSI engine + ~$6k shipping there and back. Just not feasible.

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Convert to real dollars and the prices will be the same.

Hm, I am keeping my 996 GT3, thank you very much.

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Doesn't work that way 'real' dollars, eh? Lol!

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You've done some amazing work with leather upholstery, embroidering, electrical work, etc. My curiosity is getting the best of me here. How much have you invested into all the interior modifications to your car?

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You have Alpine Autowerks in AB... They do Hartech resleeving and rebuilds. https://alpineautowerks.com/about.html

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Couple thousand for the interior mods and electrical? Fabric is expensive - $20/meter. Used vinyl, not leather. Cheaper, and my machine can't work with leather. $600 for nav $1000 for rims $3000 for tires Probably a few thousand in mechanical repairs, like the AOS, strut mounts etc ... have been trying do do more and more of our repairs ourselves. Currently chasing an electrical problem. Still deciding if spending $6000 - $7000 for the IMS solution is a good idea, if something else will just blow up the engine anyway. As for an engine rebuild, I heard of Alpine Autowerks. No idea what a ballpark number for a rebuild from them would be. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Stop jinxing me!

Quotes source post: 16881942

Nope.. No gearbox work here.. Its my job to blow up transaxles, not repair them.. We only do engines, its all we know.. One reason we are good at our craft, is because of total focus on just one thing, and won't deviate from it. Spent today in the 20th Century, lightening, and polishing rocker arms.. loved every minute.. No clock, no calendar. Doesn't matter how long it takes.

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Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life.

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What kind a tires are you buying for $3k. I paid $800 CAD for my Kumho PS91 for 19s, additional $100 for installation. https://www.quattrotires.com/ IMS at $6-7k is extreme, when a rebuild is about $6-12k. Another option below or go with LN retrofit or Pelican option if money is tight. Much less and and its 12hrs of labour usually @ $100-120. https://tunersmall.com/product/ims-b...96-trsdof9705/

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I bought Pirelli Rosso tires the first time for my wife and was stunned that the rears were bald after 1 single year of driving. So had to buy a second set, but this time all season Continentals - they better last longer ... $6 - $12 for a rebuild? Sandy lane and Eurasia here in Edmonton were in the $25k range when I inquired.

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An IMS Solution installed by a shop will run $5K plus pretty much anywhere. Close to $2K for the Solution plus labor to drop everything. Then, you start adding the "while you are in there" items......$$$$$

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My quoted number is just the Solution and no add ons - it is higher because its in cdn dollars. And no, it doesn't even out because of exchange rates, in case someone was going to say that. I checked 2 shops in my province and they were within $500 of each other for the Solution.

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Disclaimer: I don't own a 996, so excuse me crashing your party. This thread is getting notice in other forums. Your behavior throughout this has been exemplary, sir. Knowing this about Mr. Raab tells me that if I ever need one of his services or parts, he's going to be the one to do it for me. Might as well keep it all in the family. Semper. The other question: As a former Marine (and of that era!), I can tell you that 'A Few Good Men' is complete garbage. It gets pretty much everything wrong. I saw it once, and that was enough. Yeesh, and I though Boxsters had a bad rep. I think I'll cross 996s off my 'wish list'. But, seriously: Is it that there are such a high percentage of engines with problems, or is it that they all end up with you?

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According to Oliver Stone, most war movies are way over the top compared to real war. Not surprised movies are not like real life. Even so-called documentaries can miss the mark with incredible controversy.

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I've just rechecked with a local shop here in Ontario - EuroTek Standard IMS bearing replacement/install is $1,100 CAD on 996 M/T , additional $1,000 CAD for oil fed variety/IMS solution. Check out Hartech rebuild process, based seems like the prices for the work done in UK are much lower even if you factor in the shipping in and out. https://www.hartech.org/engine-rebuilds

Quotes source post: 16886044

Holy crap ... Why are we Albertans getting charged so much more?

Quotes source post: 16886127

It was about $1700 cad for the ln retrofit in the Toronto area in 2017. If that shop uses a standard replacement ims bearing the part itself is cheaper too.

Quotes source post: 16885912

I was in a war documentary film and, yeah, that's correct. The filmmaker (Jeremy Zerechak, who filmed the source material while deployed with our unit) slightly emphasized some of the events and de-emphasized others to give the ending a little more dramatic impact. Also: I didn't realize Oliver Stone had served; not that I knew much about him at all. I think I've only ever seen two of his movies.

Quotes source post: 16886044

The IMS solution itself is $1800 US, or $2300 CDN plus at least 10 hours of install. PLUS at least several hours of inspection prior to install. If you have a healthy engine, the IMS might be the most important component in that engine. Probably worth doing right the first time. I can't see any shop doing this for less than $5k Canadian, and money well spent if you plan on keeping the car. Otherwise maybe a 996 isn't the right car for you.

Quotes source post: 16888786

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Anybody know what the status of this car? I haven't seen any updates. I'm assuming since the seller was banned, that things didn't go well for him afterwards? Did he ever pay up for the mistake about the IMS Solution?

Mr. Deezy sent a ticket through my system last night. He was cordial, and he somewhat apologized.. It was one of those "I apologize for XXXX, but....." Then everything that was said prior to that "but" was wasted effort. He didn't make threats, and seemed to come in peace. Time can heal some wounds, but I'll always be watching my six for this guy. Something tells me that he isn't out of the car business, either. Anyway, I agreed with him, didn't argue, and just let him go back to his cellar door.