The ultimate IMS UPGRADE = ENGINE LIFEGUARD

Hi guys: I'm anxious to tell you one of teh most important revolution we can get to make our M96 engines eternal. Forget the IMS issue. All of us know that there are some ways to reinforce the IMS, but any of them are like this: the ultimate solution to prevent a total engine failure due to a IMS issue. In our spanish spoken forum, Soloporsche.com , we're very proud to have a really Porsche expert engineer who developed this fantastic and awesome idea. Our friend Rober, has designed a real solution: Double bearing, large bearing support, reinforced external piece, specific compound material seals (triple advanced seal solution to avoid oil leaks).... Our friend Rober created a web to explain how the kit works (it will be in english / german next week) http://www.insaroims.com/index.php An hybrid ceramic compound bearing was used to achive a high endurance life 3 years warranty, excellent h.q. materials, but ...... ... imagine that It could fail... the bearing could fail... what happens to the engine...???? Don't cry!!!! There is a second special bearing to work as an engine lifeguard What do you think guys? IMPORTANT: I don't sell anything. I don't have any commercial interest in this kit. I only want to share with you one the best advanced solutions for our engines.

Looks like it it very thoughtfully engineered to me. Does he have a kit price and a good way to extract the old bearing?

Hi Joaquin, it looks quite interesting! I don't know Spanish so I rely only on google translate. Is it correct that the inner bearing comes in action (rotate) ONLY when the outter (bigger) bearing fails? And without fresh oil to lubricate, can the inner bearing last long enough to warn the user? TIA

Bearing, and Support look very impressive. Thing is, you shouldn't want ANY bearing to fail and just reside in the IMS while the backup takes over... are both sets of bearings lubricated by the engine oil as opposed to OEM design? if the first bearing seizes, what about the metal particles that can get circulated to the second bearing?

Looks decent to me, I think if the "main" bearing failed, it would be obvious as the cam timing would be way off ie: check engine light, rough running, reduced power, noise, etc.

Rober built this kit using high quality materials. After testing it, they know It's almost impossible to suffer a bearing fail. The bearing support was made in a large desing, and the all the elements are new, including the outer 3 screw piece. The kit erase the possibility of a blown engine due to a bearing fail. This would be a very remote thing, because the quality of the pieces are great. Rober is an excellent engineer who thought lots of ours on how to improve this critical area, and designed every piece with the best way. The web next week It will be available in english. I did a home made bearing support reinforcement, much stronger than L&N/Raby did. I think that my car is assured, but I'm going to change it and go for this solution, to forget any fear forever. There's no comparison...

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He offers an extracting tool The prices are in the web (�) and there are several HD videos too

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He thought too much hours in the lubrication system, so I'm sure It's a problem solved. As I'm not an engineer, I coudn't answer you, but I'll ask it for you

it sure does look impressive Mayby at 163,000 I'll put yours in.... I just put someone elses in at 103,000

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If the front bearing were to fail, the IMS is rendered unusable in every case, but I wouldn't expect the ceramic front bearing to fail. Also, in a failure, the act of failure will take out the seals, effectively compromising both bearings (and the engine). My concern is lack of lubrication for the rearmost bearing, or lack thereof especially without a rear ceramic bearing, and that bearing causing the front bearing to fail. Secondly, the ims itself is not a precision piece except where the original bearing resides, so how do you install a precision bearing without machining (that is why our triple bearing requires machining of the ims) Also, the rear bearing is not ceramic. Very nice machining regardless and very nice website.

I'm not an expert, but We'll wait for an explanation from Rober to solve all the dubts.

So.. Thats the completed component as fitted and tested, huh?? I see one really obvious piece of critical machine work missing from the bearing flange posted. Fitting this piece as pictured is impossible, I will state why below. Here is why: See those reliefs that are cut in the factory flange and the LN billet flange?? Well, we had to work very hard to get those as large and as thick as possible without interference occurring between the toothed wheel attached to the flywheel that MUST remain in place and allow fitment. The IMS " Engine Lifeguard" doesn't have ANY relief machined into it as pictured in any thread or on their website. The flange as pictured is just as thick (or thicker) than the LN flange (and stock flange) yet it does not incorporate the necessary relief to allow for fitment with any stock, non modified flywheel. For this reason I can state with confidence that the pictured flange and arrangement has not been fitted to a running test engine... Something tells me that Rober doesn't have very much direct experience with an M96 engine, at least one with a flywheel fitted to it ready for operation. We've provided some pictures taken with a bore scope so you can see this on an assembled engine. A borescope is necessary to get these pics because the area is tight and not well lit. Look at the HEAVY interference of the of the flywheel ring is with the machined flange as pictured here. The LN flange even had MORE clearance than the factory flange! This picture was taken from an all stock M96 engine outfitted with an LN IMS bearing flange that is being used for our "M96 101" Engine Assembly class that Charles and I are hosting as this is being posted. Tomorrow our students will see this interference first hand to quantify these pictures that we just took 5 minutes ago on our engine being used for the engine class. (I am sure these students are rennlist members) Another possible interference issue that can be noted from the posted pictures is the interference that could come from the huge nut that is used on the super sized stud of this unit. Will the ring gear on the flywheel contact that nut when the flywheel is fitted? The most revised 22mm hex nut that is used by Porsche is very shallow in comparison to the unit pictured and that IMS flange is also more deeply recessed to allow for proper ring gear clearance as well. I feel my points are valid to say the least, so the question is: Has the pictured set of components been used in a test engine that utilized a stock non-modified flywheel? If so do you have pictures to illustrate how this was accomplished? Now, I will also state that I am simply not being overly technical about this and posting because this is a similar product to what I have assisted LN in developing... The original poster stated the following and I have some issues with this, because he mentioned my name: He may be.. The solid models are excellent, but based on what I see in these pictures this part wasn't made "in the best way" because it doesn't appear that the flywheel will even be able to fit without interfering heavily with the bearing flange. And you used the tool kit that I sold to you to extract that bearing and even to install the new bearing, and by using the methods that we developed. We even see our tools in the photos that are pictured on insaro's site. I will reference your invoice Monday to find the date this was done. No, because ours actually fits. You have gone out of your way to make negative comments about what we have done, about how it may not be optimum or how it can be improved on in this and previous posts. Had you not done this I would have never made this post in your thread about the "IMS Engine Lifeguard". Most "Lifeguards" have to know how to swim themselves before they can help others.. So where are the pictures of this unit (as pictured earlier in this thread) fitted with a stock non-modified flywheel onto a running engine? How has this unit been tested in engine operation if a flywheel cannot be fitted due to the notable interference? The good thing is the fact that NO ONE can ever say the LN unit is overpriced if this bad boy cost roughly 1700.00 USD according to the current exchange rate! I also cannot believe that this thread touting a new product being posted by a non rennlist paying sponsor has lasted in this forum as long as it has. Had I done this the thread would have been removed and my wrists would have been slapped within a matter of hours.. It has happened before when I simply mentioned a product after directly answering someone's question about it in a thread I didn't even start! I have to watch every word I say to even be able to post in this forum. AMAZING!

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First af all, good morning Jake: Yes, I did something similar to your solution, but I used a large custom made bearing support, following the advices from my mechanic and copying what barracuda did in the following link : http://soloporsche.com/showthread.php?t=33716 (By the way, barracuda don't speak english, It's not very keener in the internet, and all what he did was by himself, trying to use logical solution. He is an amateur mechanic. His brother in-law works is a bearing dealer and advised him to use a SKF hybrid ceramic compound instead of steel one. Iused the same too instead of Timke. He didn't hear about you never). (You can see what I did in my signature link) . I purchased from you the oil filter adapter, oil filter and magnetic drain plug. Besides, I purchased your extracting tool and gave it to my mechanic to be used more times as I don't need it. I have no relationship with Rober. He is a soloporsche fellow (I am one of the 3 admin), and he has all the rights to try to develop whatever he wants as an engineer. It's very easy to critizice something in a picture when you think that It could affect to your company. His solution works, was tested properly, and people can choose yours or Rober solution. If it's cheaper or more expensive, is another question. I only posted Insaro solution to share it with rennlist people. Ihave no interest in Insaro company, because It is not my cup of tea. I work as a jewellery maker, not in engineering world. My car has only 41.300 km. My clutch is in perfect condition. I don't know when, but I'll probably go for insaro solution when I'd have to change it. Not just now. I don't know how much time, but I'm not going to spend more money now as it's nor necessary, because I have a good reinforcement in my 911) I said there's no comparison because Insaro solution is completely different from yours. Not to critizice yours. I think that LN is quite good, and I did a huge defense from you in several previous post here in rennlist. Just do a search. Besides: I am one of the 3 owners of soloporsche. I posted your company since I knew it. It's posted in a attached thread in our general Forum.... COMPLETELY FREE . I wrote lots of good things of your company in Soloporsche. Do a search. If any soloporsche user knows a bit from your company It's thanks to me. If you have sold any piece to Spain, was thanks to me. So don't make those comments because you don't have reason. So go you don't need to look for my invoice. Here you have it: (My mechanic did the work February 16 th 2010) = the complete task: http://pasionporsche.com/component/c...ms-996-36.html I'll wait Rober comments here to make a defense of your questions , because you are making a hard critic to Insaro Kit referred to the flange I have no information nor training and no need to response. But the only thing I can say It's that no one engineer would develop and sell anything without testing properly. I've being a reenlist member for 5 years... You were critized for several members who told you wanted to sell your products here... remember it. Last year I did'nt renove the membering, but I'll do it in the future again, because I love this forum. I insist you to do a search and you'll find lots of positive comments to you from me. It's easy forget it when an interested stuff exist. I don't have any interest in anything, and I can write free because I do NOT have any interest in any company, any product, or any investement. So don't say that the original poster is not a sponsor member because It has no meaning, as I have no Insaro relationship with, when I've been a rennlist member since 2005 and the last 4 years contributing member. Are you contributing member, or rennlist Sponsor? I'm not, but I've seen lots of rennlisters posting lots of info about several products, very interesting for the community, without any commercial interest in them. I'm only a Porsche enthusiastic, and think that rennlist and the rest of Porsche community would be better, richer as much shared information we'd get Here you have the link of soloporsche when I gave you free publicity: http://soloporsche.com/showthread.php?t=33774 (edited including Insaro solution 2 days ago) Look at the first poster date of the original post. Had I ask you any duck for posting it anytime?????????????? NO, I hadn't. Because my way to understand this is different. I'm free. I don't earn money in automotive world. If I were working in a automotive company, I'll have to be ready to asume that others could make me a competence. Automotive market is infinite worldwide. Soloporsche have NO publicity Soloporsche is a free advertisement forum, paid for 3 admin/owners I hope It was clear for everybody. But I repeat: I don't sell anything. This is a Porsche enthusiastic community, where I think everybody must share all the things to make it better. I do really appreciate your work. I learnt a lot of details reading your webs, and consider that they are great. If I were someone with dark interest in other company to make you a rivalry, I had never advised a friend of mine (soloporsche user, called Jonathan from La Rioja, Spain. You both can look for the invoice too) to purchase a kit for a 996 Carrera Cabrio MK2 from you, or LN (you could see it in the last 2 month dates). My mechanic, Altozano did the upgrade work last week. So I don't understand what you said about me. I don't want you to give special thanks to me, because I tried to help my friend, but I don't like this kind of comments. Sorry for my english. It's not easy to me and perhaps sometimes I make many mistakes and It's difficult to understand what I mean. Regards from Madrid, Spain

No rivalry... I really have no issue with you at all, except wondering if the tools that you bought were used to extract these bearings or if those tools and processes will be taken advantage of by someone else commercially.. If they are, then so be it because you bought them, but it is still no fun for us. The fact is that MY CUSTOMERS and MY FRIENDS have had threads deleted and locked on this forum and others that you posted this same thread in when they also had no commercial interest and were simply posting their experiences, with what we have provided just as you have done in this thread. In one of those situations a member was banned from one of those forums after posting he had visited me and was impressed with the work we had done and how we did business. He had no interest in what we did, yet that was assumed and he got the boot. Just seems kind of odd to me, but I don't want to come off as a whiner thats crying about fairness.. These people have "written free" about what we do and have caught all sorts of flack for it, but that hasn't happened this time. I'll add that I made my first post when Rennlist was a "list".. Thats when the M96 engine was just released. At this point I just want to see how this has been made to function with a stock non-modified flywheel, thats all. I am asking this more from a standpoint of wondering how something with such heavy interference in stock form can be fitted. I await Rover's response eagerly. BTW- No one has called you a "Fearmonger" yet either.. Hell, that would have happened to me 20 times by lunch time yesterday!

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I purchased one extracting tool. My mechanic hadn't any extracting tool for the inner bearing, and wanted to build up a home made tool, similar as "barracuda" did (in the previous link is visible), so I decided to purchase one made by you, as I saw in the web, to make it easier. The only different thing was that I had to bring the pusher to a lathe operator (the same worker who made me a large bearing support) to allow a large screw. This tool was paid by me. I don't need it, and was given to my mechanic. He used it last week to do a new LN installing kit work in Jonathan's car. This tool wasn't used with commercial purpose. It's obvious that the tool was used to extract my OEM bearing. That's why it was designed for and and that's what I purchased it: to help my mechanic and avoid loose time on other things. Jake, I talked to Rober, to come here and give all the needed explanations. I'm sure you'll be very surprised when you'd read what he's going to say about the Insaro Kit. Really works perfect and that's why was world patented. I'm anxious to read him, because my english is not good enough to translate it here with too much technical words ans expressions

in before the close....

I see many ways to approach this bearing and unless you are an engineer, machinist, or hobbyist with mad skills the only safe aproach is to buy one that is already proven, well designed and marketed. If I were to make my own, that's cool.... if I were to buy someone else's and reverse engineer it for myself, that might be pushing it a little....but the truth is there are other ways of doing it AND with enough time other ways will come out - some will even become available for sale as kits.. its just the way of things. SO where do you put your trust? In who's kit? The best tested one, the cheapest, the coolest looking, the one who's "Ad" speaks to you... fine.... thats also normal. Or like I often do, come up with something else and give it a try. IIRC Joaquin made his own kit a while ago, as more and more will become the case. Some of those will be "better" some will not. I am not a lawyer but there are legal issues surrounding some of the things that will come out, those things can be fought in the legal system. For me its good to see new ways of doing the same thing, and like Jake says that thing wont work... but given Joaquin's does, its just a matter of time to all the thinkers !

BTW - I see no reason to close this thread. It might not have much interest and be about as well liked as the pleage, but there is nothing wrong with it in an open Porsche M96 forum - it seems to be discussing an issue (albeit AGAIN) that involves the cars on this forum - a fix (or possible fix) to an issue that does involve cars on this forum... maybe it will die out, but I hope it doesnt get closed, that would really say something to me (although I dont know what it would say)

To whom this may concern: I am currently attending Jake Raby's and Charles Navarro's class in Cleveland, Georgia. I asked what other ideas there were as to aftermarket IMS bearings in the market and this started a S#1T storm. Jake and Charles showed and asked me (us) as a second opinion as to how this was possible, for your IMS bearing to fit properly. Now, after careful inspection of your fabricated parts (Photo), it is apparent that there is no way for your IMS bearing to fit onto an engine and have enough clearance for the flywheel speed/reference sensor teeth. As far as I know, there are no differences in this area in comparison from the European to US engine cases. Have you actuall fit your IMS bearing onto and engine including fitment of the flywheel? �Please explain�. Thank you, Tony Callas Callas Rennsport Torrance, Ca PS The class was awesome, thank you guys...

We don't want this thread to be closed either. We want to see how it works and have some better understanding of how it works. People have original ideas... People can also imitate others and thats always going to happen. When given a challenge humans will make things happen and overcome. I have no problem with other IMS kits, in fact I find it funny that something that we were told couldn't be done is now being done by others with "other kits" at different price points for different buyers and applications. There is a discussion over on Pelican Parts pertaining to their upcoming kit as well as another going on now. Who cares? Remember, urban legend still says that the IMS failure doesn't even exist... Supply and demand, the bearings supposedly don't fail so where does the demand come from??? We knew that the IMSR would become more widespread and we knew that others would jump on the bandwagon, because thats what always happens.. Imitation if the most common form of compliment in my world, its been happening to me and to Charles for YEARS! I have no problem with the other kits at all, those who come our way will be doing so to attain the absolute answer from those who ORIGINALLY fought the battles and had the first commercially available kit. They will do that and pay the required cost because they appreciate what we have created and want to share it with us. They want to compensate us for our efforts. What I do have a problem with is being targeted and having statements made that something is "better" when the pictures suggest that the component won't even install and operate in an actual engine. These statements need to be substantiated. All I want to see is this bearing with the pictured flange in a non modified state function on a running engine with a stock non modified flywheel.. Who has those pictures? If this has been tested I am sure it was documented. ALL the members of our M96 101 class that just wrapped up saw with their own eyes the clear flange interference issues that I have pictured in my previous thread. As each attendee viewed the issue the same look appeared on their face, followed by a little laughter and then the reality that something just doesn't add up. It'll take a miracle to explain how this one will work- That said, if two dozen IMS retrofits popped up tomorrow on the market I'd know that what I have done with my own hands was done in the manner that offers the best total cost and the least compromise. Other kits will pop up over time, hell the IMS bearing had been swapped (using lesser quality bearings) even before we did it. The difference was there were no standardized parts, procedures or widespread application or instructions. I've already had my fun, retrofitted engines, saved engines, helped develop pullers and procedures and shot videos about the IMSR.. I just want to see this component that is so highly engineered actually function. Thats all.

Flywheel stock This is a picture INSARO kit installed. I detail tomorrow all the relevant technical information to clarify the problems of assembling and rolling resistance of the second bearing and the kit in general. For us it`s very important to communicate the safety and reliability of the system, that is why the kit is under international patent and a three-year warranty. The document is on the website. It is not necessary to change/modify the flywheel, or any element, the kit is already installed in different cars with very good results , and fit perfectly. Remember that ims shaft is machined inside so the second bearing fits perfectly. A note Jake, this kit is not a copy, is a new development at 100% Greetings RobertoR. INSARO Proyect Manager

Thank you for the photo as shown with a Tiptronic flexplate. Have you fitted it with a dual mass flywheel as well? If so, how have you addressed the clearance issues as documented. Do you have additional photos of these installations? There are variations between manual and Tiptronic models where some might have clearance while others might now. We found this out first hand. I look forward to seeing your technical explanation of how your kit works and and what testing methods you have used.

Jake, I said "better" and that wasn't meant to imply there is anything wrong with your units. I think ( and have shouted long and loud) your kits are great, well made, highly engineered and tested and a "must have" for all M96 motors....hands down, the best. I have inspected them at close detail and find them to be excellent on all aspects. the reason I put "better" in parenthesis was that the word better comes from the person selling the kits or new idea... thats all. Just wanted to clear the air on that point

I want to say that I found this thread so interesting to be closed too. There are too much technical things to read, and I must say that I love this kind of threads. Raby/Navarro are asking the way to fit and working with the flywheel. I've been talking to Rober (Insaro) by phone. He gave me a great explanation on every detail of his product. There are different references and all of them work perfectly in every tipe of flywheel. You have insisted in the same point: if fit with the flywheel. Yes, it fits properly. It works properly, in manual gear box, Tiptronic S box, etc. The most important thing that we are discussing is: Someone had a clever idea = build a new solution to erase the terrible problem, a blown engine due to a bearing failure. I'm going to talk about me: I particularly reinforced the critic area, but though I used a high quality hybrid bearing, and an enlarge bearing support, there is no posibility to assure that I'm free of an engine failure. That's the real question . LN/Raby developed a very good preventive kit to prevent a bearing failure. Rober from Insaro developed a total different idea. An ultimate solution which offers you the way to preserve your engine intact, if you have a bearing failure. His solution offers an spectacular bearing support which is ready to hold 4 tons, and add the engine lifeguard with a secondary bearing, placed perfectly to make several different jobs: 1) work as a second bearing to replace the main bearing task if It would fail. 2) alert the driver about a problem into his engine. The driver could continue driving for more than 60 hours without compromise the engine 3) If you're driving faster and your engine is going to fail, you can suffer an accident. With this solution you can save your life. As I've taking to Rober I can say that he was preparing an extense explanation, that translated into english for all you. Be patient, because you'll get surprising arguments. Rober is a fantastic engineer, and he is not playing the fool. Nobody is going to develop an impossible idea who doesn't work and introduce it as the best of the best. For every rennlister who'd like to know that there is a definitve solution: wait for Rober explanations. He will publish them tomorrow For those who aren't open to receive news, improvements, real solutions...: I think that there are different ways to solve a real problem, and I must say that this from Insaro, has no comparison to any other seen before. There is no a copy. It's a clever an effective solution. For those who criticize this product: It's very different to other products in the market. We cannot say that are similar, because It's totally new, looking for a definitive solution, erasing the real problem. There's no comparison. They have the same similitudes that a horse and a fish have. The main bearing works perfect. Could it fail? it's very very difficult to see a hybrid compound bearing failure. The bearing support was made in a 20 mm special steel alloy. Three special Viton material seals protect the external piece avoiding any oil leak. The secondary bearing will work fine in the remote case of a bearing failure. The IMS will not never fall down. The engine could work properly, and you'll receive an alert in your cockpit. The lubrication sistem will work perfectly without any lack in any part of the pieces. All of them was calculated. Please, wait for Rober's technical explanations

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Ivan, I posted it to share this information with everybody here. All of us know that Porsche M96 engines are not the example of perfection. If someone has developed/invented a REAL solution, and It works perfectly (though there always would be critic voices trying to look for a nonexistent lack, because could be a threat). I personally say that this solution is much better than any other seen before, because It fits the problem completely 100% = avoid a blown engine If you want to say better, ok if others wanted to say another adjective, ok. Everyone could say whatever consider more suitable.

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Do you really think that an expert engineer is going to introduce a product which doesn't fit of the flywheel without testing before? I understand the questions that Raby/Navarro did, because It could affect their companies, but with the same reason someone could ask them If they are 100% sure and guarantee that their kits are eternal, and are never going to fail and cause a blown engine.

To be honest, the competition is always good for our customers!! since the labor for installing the kit is over $1000, i really hope it has at least longer warranty than the factory one. The LN kit that installed in my car only has 1 year warranty. thats kind of too short to my car indeed.

I agree, good to talk about the solutions - the only way over the fear and lower prices on the market is knowledge and prevention though action Its exciting to see

I will wait and see what the guy that designed the bearing says, but the worry i have would be this, if the main bearing were to fail and the secondary bearing done its job and kept the shaft in place and the engine was still functioning, what about all the damaged parts of the main bearing that collapsed? surely they would all be getting pumped about the engine, destroying main bearing shells, crankshafts etc especially if the engine is still running? I am sure that the only engines that have been saved are ones that have been caught just as the bearing fails, which obviously means that the collapsed bearing parts have not had time to be pumped around the engine and ruin the rest of it? Just a thought!

I do really thought that the prices were a bit expensive at the first time, but after reading all the interesting elements that Insaro was offering I said: What is expensive? What is cheap? You must analyze it. A product could be expensive or cheap depending or several factors. Is a 911 a expensive car? It depends what this car could offer you. For me is a accurate priced car because brings me a huge driving pleasure. Others don't think the same as everything is relative. A total solution which saves your engine in the remote likelhood of a bearing failure, should seem cheap, compare to the amount of money that a reman engine will cost. In my particular view, I'm glad with my car. Works fine and has a 12 mm reinforced bearing support, besides a SKF hybrid ceramic compound bearing. Only has 41.300 km. I'm not going to spend any extra euro at now, but next time I'd have to change clutch, this option will be surely installed. I've seen all the complex data, and I received an extended explanation about each little detail of the kit. I know that he is finishing an extended translation with several paragraphs to make you understand all the doubts. (It's the handicap with the foreign language and technical vocabulary)

First of all good evening- and calmness. Here we're to be able to discuss about a problem solution. In the following paragraphs I'll try to explain all the doubts you would have concerning to Insaro reinforcement Kits. Regarding to M96 engine knowledge, I'm sensible to know that there will be lots of people with a great experience in this particular issue, for istance yourself Jake. A few of us have learnt thanks to your threads and experience. I have a huge experience on the field of design, finite elements analysis, tridimensional model generating, and big machines, robotized systems research and developing in the field of iron and steel sector, that means is a good platform. I hope you could believe me Jake, 'cause there are very complex systems with efforts and working atmosphere, with a huge difficult component more than a M96 engine could never arise. I could tell you lots of them but, as an example I can show you this robot (by the way is working in your country): I'm a person who is used to place myself in an engine, a processing equipment industrial plant, an industrial oven, etc, trying to study and develop solutions to improve, upgrade at this point. This is my speciality, where I hit on the nail: to anylize and improve the quality of elements. That's why though I'm not an specific specialist on M96 engines, that question is not relevant to disqualify me, to be ready to offer my little contribution to Porsche world (I hope you don't worry about it Jake). I can assure from my deep heart that my only purpose is always to grow, and evolve over a problem root. The main question is that Porsche enthusiastics could know the product, its improvements, and after that they could choose. It would be a great benefit for this community to have several choices. Once I cleared these things, we can go to directly to study the piece. I like simplify ideas, 'cause It is the best way to interpret a problem solution Porsche has a design problem at present, ok. You make an analysis and contribute to solve the problem, generating a mechanized piece over a melting piece design. Then you add it to an hybrid bearing. The improvent is good, but I don't consider it as a solution. I hope this argument wouldn't disturb you Jake. I say it with all repects to you. To solve the problem is the same as erase the problem. I always think that anything is forever, anything will work as eternal, so in the likelyhood of an hybrid bearing failure... what could happen? I know It's too difficult but not impossible. At this point we place a first step: to look for a problem solution which means that if the IMS fails the engine could be intact, 'alive'. If the main bearing fails, we have another point to lean the IM shaft on. The principal aim is avoid the shatf taking down, and keep the chains on. But the most important is that the driver could realize the problem. Inside the piece, we looked for a new design completely new and never similar to Porsche OEM one. We consider that It's a wrong design, so if you continue making something similar we'll finally fall down at the same point: a total disaster. We begin with a holder piece 3 times increased than the original one. So we can assure that It is holding the IMS more efficiently, and with less posibility to generate vibrations in its spinning work. Besides, we reinforce the piece in a better steel alloy. Remember that Porsche's bearing support is melted, and if you want to increase this stiffness, you'll need to begin with a more structural steady piece designed, with less arris, and stronger to take the new generated efforts We go for a 20 mm bearing support, instead of the 6-8 mm current, where the bearing is perfectly placed and supported and not a 57% as you can check in the current market pieces. As you said It's very important to make a deep study of a system which is supporting a bearing, especially when It's generating a pile of working frequencies. We humans are placed over two feet, 100% of support. If we'd lift a leg, then we'll be placed in a single foot, just 50% of support.. Currently, Porsche's bearing and yours are placed and supported only in a 57%. The rest is placed in a traction working shaft, with a 5% gap/hence/fedge So the result is that more than half bearing is suported in a non steady surface. This is not only my own appreciation, you can check it here: IMHO this is an error, a serious error, to support a bearing in a mix way. It generate stabilty lack, a terrible lack of support just in the point where radial forces are being generated Talking about lubrication, I must say that the main bearing is being lubricated by engine oil, obviously It is mounted without side covers. The second bearing receives lubrication at the same time with engine oil with the centrifuge effect generated by the IMS spinning. At present, there are no bearings which could suffer a failure being stopped and lubricated. Concerning to a probably main bearing failure and a working task for the secondary, the generated gap between the bearing and the internal shaft was calculated to produce a little alternative strain in the chains. That was thought to alert both hall sensors and produce an 'check engine light in your dashboard. We did several studies checking different phase angles in the sensors, with different strain chains to analize where is the margin of fine working before offer error in the Motronic unit. We know very well the electronics as we are specialist in remapping since 1989. In this case we designed it to produce a little pitching in the bearing support and alert the driver that something wrong is happening. Another important thing: this kit could save your life. Imagine thta you're driving in a sharp bend road and you decide to make a passing maneuver. Imagine that at this point, you suffer a IMS failure... Imagine that a truck comes to you ... but and you calculated the distance with your superb Porsche... you could die without power. Insaro don't leave you without power. You could continue driving without any problem and accelerating te same as before. Think about it... As you well know, Porsche's Variocam system works with twim signals. A hall pushing time failure, will give you Check Engine Light, to alert you that the engine is failing, and in the likelyhood of a main bearing failure, the second bearing will produce a Christmas tree in the dash to prevent you that something wrong goes, and stop the engine. The secondary bearing doesn't have the aim to last the whole life, nor lasting 1000 working hours. Its aim is avoid the IMS to take down producing a total disaster . This a contribution to solve the problem as we understand under our point of view Concerning to the doubts about the second bearing, I'll do a comparison to Porsche OEM bearing. Porsche OEM bearing, as we know could make a good amount of miles but after that, and due to several things, finally could fail. Well, I'm going to show you Porsche OEM bearing endurance data, and after that our Insaro secondary bearing endurance data. As you can see, besides being better than Porsche's one in all load capabilities, we include something very important: our secondary bearing can hold axis loads, and ***** bearings mounted as main bearing do not. Porsche OEM bearing Vs INSARO secondary bearing I have no problem to show you original data from Manufacturer website if you don't believe any data posted here. They are joined in a table to appreciate directly and clear that Insaro's bearing exceeds more than 3 times lots of endurance aspects of Porsche's one. There's no way to doubt about its endurance. These data made me think the following: If Porsche's bearing is able to last till 10 years working, Insaro's one will be capable to last 5 minutes working till you'd find a clear zone to stop your car and toe to your car to your mechanic. You'll get your car saved. The only thing would be to install a new piece, new oil, an so on, always better than a new engine. That's the target. Besides we increased for 3 times the sealing capabilities. As you know your car could suffer IMS oil leaks. Our Insaro piece has 3 special Viton seals which make it impossible to leak. You Tube Jake, we have so much safety and confidence in our product that is protected with an international patent and registered for the main markets in USA, Europe, Africa, Oceania, etc We are so confident in our kits that we offer 3 year warranty . Not more we can add about safety in our job. I don't like to critizice in an aggresive way any aspect of your design, and in fact, I could do it, but I'll just try to explain you INSARO qualities. It's better to show Porsche world all the positive things of the market kits and better to get in a primary school argue. Concerning to the endurance, all the pieces were re-designed and we added all the improvements of steel compounds, thermal treatments, and they don't look similar in any aspect to Porsche OEM or LN design. By the way, the pusher tool is very similar to yours, jake, but you know there's nothing special to design a simple cylinder to place a bearing in. Here you can see several videos comparing both pieces. I'd like to know where you can see any estructural weakness I can assure you that if we begin talking about Porsche estrutural weakness, we'll need a lot of time for it INSARO Vs Porsche You Tube INSARO Shaft Vs Porsche Shaft You Tube For me it`s very clear, this kit is not a copy, is a new development at 100%.Talking about prices is relative. Here is a contribution where you can see a problem completely solved. There is a NEW design, new improvements in avoiding oil leaks (triple protection seals), high quality materials, high quality bearings, and what's more: a problem solved . So, do you really can meassure how much the product cost? Charles & Jake, I do all this work since the most repectable attitude to your company and your preventive solutions. I respect your brilliant career, and I expect that you could understand my words and explanations. What I did id nothing similar to yours. It's other point of view looking for a definitive solution and I must say that there is an important difference between both products. There are no simitudes. Kind regards Roberto R. INSARO Proyect Manager. Joaquin thank you for believing in our product and its possibilities .

Rober, I really do trust in your solution, because I've been following the advances you were making, in our Soloporsche spanish forum. I found awesome your exposition, plenty of details, and offering a new point of view, never seen before.

Well, huh. I think Jake certainly has a good point and I have to agree on his view that this thread is allowed to continue and the OP not being a sponsor. I also agree that Jake had in fact done the research to figure a way to pull the old bearing and now that he proved it can be done, And built and designed a puller., Now he has the reality to deal with that others can also make a solution for the IMS using his knowlege about getting the old bearing out. I see his point and he needed to patent the bearing removal and didnt do so for whatever reason. Maybe in a hurry to get the product to the market. I dunno. I know how he feels.

reading it over so if I "get it" the plan is for the new bearing to be fine and have a back up plan inserted into the pipe with some amount of clearance so when/if there is a main bearing failure the IMS shaft vibrates causing propes to light up the dash signifying a failure of the main bearing. interesting thought I would like to know what the 5 pins are around the flange backside radially? your "claims" are a little mis-leading although I trust you have thought thru many things, be careful on that ice. eg. 3 times the sealing capacity??? the outter seal looks very much the same as the stock one and that leave only the inner seal to be "better" - better maybe... 3x better? - also "save your life" is a bit of a stretch, yes its true in some wierd instance but that is not something that needs to be added to the discussion IMO you have to keep in mind when offering a "better mouse trap" you will take some heat. Well done in your initial explainations one last point.. the machine work is a little rough... tools are dull and not cutting properly.. just look and in a microsecond you can see the tearing. Make sure and hammer on the the guys making the parts to cut the material - BTW what is the allow?

Thank you for your expaination. It is a novel concept to try to prevent the secondary failure (microwelding of the ims bearing to the shaft caused by the outer race riding on the ims flange) after the primary failure (ims bearing itself failing). Have you fitted this in more than the Tiptronic car shown in the photo and video? Many of us who have discussed your solution as shown cannot understand how the timing teeth clear your ims flange? You can see the two photos of an ims flange with a manual transmission's dual mass flywheel and it's timing teeth well below the height of the ears of the flange that support the flange and attach it to the engine. The teeth travel though these ears as the engine turns over. Can you show a similar photo to what we have posted showing how your design can physically even fit (and turn over) with a dual mass flywheel, as shown?

Charles and I didn't rush anything to the market.. We didn't care about a patent and we still don't. The patent isn't going to provide any real sense of security for the technology as changes to certain aspects of the bearing could still allow other solutions. We spent our money developing and testing the solution to outfit the technology in the field. Rather than spending the money on buying a piece of impressive paper (patent) we got our hands dirty and the results are speaking for themselves. My experience with software modeling and those who rely heavily on it to develop components has been less than satisfactory. The real world isn't digital.

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I'm not concerned about having not patented anything we have done. We charge a reasonable price for what we have developed. We don't deal with end users anywhere near as often as the independent shop or even Porsche dealerships, and as such, some criticize the retail price but you must have to realize that you have to allow those using and reselling the parts to make money as well, or they will have no incentive to use, sell, or support it. If and when any solution comes out, it will be cheaper either by design or manufacturing (ours is made in the USA - with exception of Japanese bearing races and separators) OR it will cost more because there are added benefits.

I,for one, think the price is not an issue.... I find when involved in a "this thing cost $xxx.xx" conversation that simply handing the item being slammed for price to the preson shouting about it and stating "expensive? you make one" seems to put it into perspective no price worries here

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I for one, Had no issue with the price at all... a g-wiz to protext 20K... money well spent plus peice of mind

Interesting thread - lots of emotions running high here. I'll let you guys slug it out on your own, but I will add this to the mix. Pelican has developed it's own IMS bearing replacement kit and we are in the final stages of testing. This kit is designed to be an improved replacement for the factory bearing, and as such, it utilizes the factory bearing flange, thus bringing down the cost considerably. Although there are many theories, I don't think anyone definitively knows what causes the bearing failure. As such, any proposed solution (no matter how much redundancy is designed into it) could possibly fail in a similar manner to the original bearings. The Pelican solution is designed to be a simple replacement that is performed during each clutch job. We consider the IMS bearing to be a short-life wear part (like a clutch disc), and now recommend changing it every 30-40K miles or so (when you replace the clutch). Performing this replacement at a specified interval is (in my opinion), the best method to prevent a potential failure. I have a detailed article on the kit replacement here: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...ft_Bearing.htm I estimate the cost of the kit to be less than $200 retail when it's going to be released on our website (probably in December). We're in the process of testing it right now (so far so good, with no oil leaks!). There appear to be advantages and disadvantages to all of the IMS kits - we plan to carry them all and let the customer decide which one they wish to install on their baby! -Wayne

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I don't like to get involved in cross-discussions like this, but I need to set the record straight. As part of my research for writing the book, "101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster", I was working closely with Scott Slauson (of Softronic) on several projects. Scott (national PCA Tech chair) is the one who pioneered the method for removal of the double-row bearing using a Stahlwille puller, and shared this information with me for inclusion into the book. I was also working with Charles Navarro at the time (this is a few years ago), and I shared this information with Charles, who then shared it with Jake. Charles and Jake then built upon this information and designed a more robust puller tool for the bearing, which is the one that LN Engineering provides today. -Wayne

And thanks to that, we have the ability to do dual row bearings. We were blissfully in the dark doing single and triple ones before that for quite some time. Once we started doing them regularly, we found the Stahlwille and Kukko tools did not last, leading to Jake to come up with the tools and method as used today.

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Shark, Jake did a fantastic research. But someone did it in Spain too without knowing anything about Raby or LN. He tried to change that horrible piece which was terrifing M96 engines. He's called Jose M� Barragan (nick barracuda), an amateur mechanic who owns a 996 C4S Cabrio. He extracted the bearing building his own extracting tool: here you can see the operation: http://soloporsche.com/showthread.php?t=33716 home made extracting tool:

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I think that It's important to offer different choices to Porsche users. And having a replacement kit as a cheap and safe operation it's a quite good choice too. That's what I decided to do in my car, just copying the same thing that "barracuda" did in soloporsche. He advised me to use a 12 mm bearing support bolt custom made by a lathe operator in F125 steel alloy. I used the same reference SKF hybrid bearing which he told me to purchase, and using the factory bearing flange with an enlarged hole to place the reinforced bolt in. SKF ceramic bearing = 155 € Lathe operator = 60 € I want to say again that my only aim always was share info with other users. The same thing I did with LN/Raby in soloporsche.

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Looks great Wayne, what is your warranty on the new product?

I want to applaud Jake and Charles, Pelican and the Spanish group for their work on this issue with the M96/7 engines. The work you have all done benefits all of us owners. Jake and Charles. I like the idea of your higher quality bearing. Will you be making these bearings available separately? The idea of replacing the bearings with each clutch replacement seems to make sense to me. If one has already installed the LN kit with the updated shaft and flange, it would be nice to be able to replace the ceramic bearing alone as a maintenance item.

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Yes, we will make the bearing available, although we expect the service life of the ceramic bearings to exceed the service life of the rest of the engine. Only time and inspection of in-service ims retrofit kits over the next few years will allow us to substantiate longevity claims.

Roberto, As you have already stated that you don't like to criticize in an aggressive way any aspects of our design, I will do the same. You do have a good idea, but the problem I see is in the assumptions you have made. You have also made a bold statement that your solution is a problem fixed. The problem cannot be solved, only improved. If you want it fixed, get a MY09 or later DFI car. That's the only way it is happening. As you have stated, you are not an M96 specialist. How much experience do you have with your solution in an M96 engine? Software modeling is a tool. Practical application and real world testing is as far from modeling as you can get. Your first assumption as stated is flawed. If you have an ims failure and if you can center the shaft, that you can save the engine. Typically when the ims bearing fails, you have microwelding caused by the wobbling of the shaft and contact made with the ims flange. Your design definitely is novel in that it prevents this secondardy failure and may prevent you from having camshaft deviation which could lead to bent valves, among other damage that could be caused to the engine by such an event. Your modeling does not take into consideration what the f.o.d. (foreign object debris) does to the rest of the engine. If and when you have an ims bearing failure where the bearing looses its seals, separator, and *****, where does all of this go? Throughout the engine. The main reason we do not warranty our ims retrofit when this happens is that you can have a secondardy failure from the debris, which has happened in cases where the retrofit has been installed after a complete failure (where the new ims bearing is fine, but something else fails). I completely understand the claim that your ims Lifeguard should allow continued operation of the engine without deviation in cam timing that could bend valves, etc. The whole idea is that the check engine light will come on, but allow continued operation. For an attentive driver listening to his engine, yes, this will allow the main (frontal) bearing to be replaced and save the engine. Do you understand the average Porsche owner (not those on the forums who are well informed and attentive)? They treat their Porsches like a Honda or Toyota. If you have visited enough Porsche dealerships or independent shops, you would come up with the conclusion that the average owner will drive the car even with lights on until the car will not drive any more. That said, have you tried installing one of your Lifeguard bearings with a compromised front bearing to purposefully test your hypothesis? In other words, have you experienced an event where the primary bearing has failed and your secondary bearing has saved the IMS?

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Undetermined as of yet, but it will probably be 1 year, 12,000 miles on the craftsmanship of the materials supplied in the kit (the new bearing, the bolt, the spacers and the o-ring). As Charles as mentioned, when you have a catastrophic bearing failure, but manage to save the engine (as we did in my tech article linked previously), it's anyone's guess as to whether debris and particles have made their way into the rest of the engine. This is a simple fix for the factory bearing - replacing it with a new one along with a better, stronger center stud. As mentioned previously, this is not meant to be an overall fix for the problem, but a maintenance procedure designed to renew the bearing at a specified interval. -Wayne

actually Charles brings up a good point.. if any of you have seen a failed bearing.... it aint pretty.. imagine metal on metal until parts generate so much heat they deform, mush together and detonate in a violent eruption of fragments... all is good and well with the "saver" bearing but if the outter bearing come apart and is driven it will surely destroy the bearing race (seat) in the IMS gear making any "save" worthless because the motor has to come apart to replace the gear (mind you no valve/head work would be required "hopefully") I have seen failed parts, you are not going to be reuing them... there is nothing left to use. Often the race from the failed bearing is so embedded into the gear that its nearly impossible to tell where the bearing ends and the gear starts. Also once "welded" in, removal via the now "standard" method is impossible for several reasons like: there is no bearing to pull out: the race is welded and the little bolt cant overcome the welds and breaks the best approach is to have it not fail, so with that in mind you have to look at who makes a better main bearing, who had it the bearing designed for the "wrong application" ie the center is stationary, and.... well I am drawing a blank on a third point because I am tired, but the fact is... not failing beats failing and having a backup plan IMO last comment, replacing using the stock parts is not a bad idea, with the exception of that darn bolt is so whimpy and has obvious stress points in its "undercut" design, the bolt has been known to simply sheer off and a good bearing can lead to IMS failure when the bolt holding it all together is no longer hanging onto home plate...Being a machinist i would like a new bolt and a better flange that is not cast crap even if I had a better/newer bearing. We can refer to the "other parts" in the motor that are cast which have "issues" ie IMS chain tensioner arm - cast parts in these places are a problem as you cannot see internal fractures that will lead to failure down the road... and we see failures - LNE makes a replacement for a reason. night all.... not fear mongroling, just discussing the options and opinions of the options....love ya KISS!!!

PS, since Marc posted his "no more IMS" thread this is the best thread on the subject

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I found this thread very interesting to Porsche enthusiastics. People as me who like to read technical explanations, different arguments and different points of view could obtain richer knowledges. I hate reading those kind of threads where someone's asking for mounting 19" or 20" rims, ...

I did post the concern about the failed bearing parts yesterday in post # 29 I will wait and see what the guy that designed the bearing says, but the worry i have would be this, if the main bearing were to fail and the secondary bearing done its job and kept the shaft in place and the engine was still functioning, what about all the damaged parts of the main bearing that collapsed? surely they would all be getting pumped about the engine, destroying main bearing shells, crankshafts etc especially if the engine is still running? I am sure that the only engines that have been saved are ones that have been caught just as the bearing fails, which obviously means that the collapsed bearing parts have not had time to be pumped around the engine and ruin the rest of it? Just a thought!

Doesn't the shaft go through both bearings so shattering isn't a problem just flaking if any bearings do start flaking out. Then I'm sure the flakes would be in the oil filter and on the magnetic drain plug.

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Interesting questions. I found very useful the magnetic oil plug. That's why I purchased it. Concerning to several questions and trying to clear some points I can say (I've been talking to Rober): - The extracting tool that I purchased to Raby was used to extract the bearing of my car and was given to my mechanic. This extracting tool is different from one was used by Barracuda (LN extracting tool is similar to a wine bottle corkscrew). I saw Insaro's extracting tool last month. It's completely different from LN's one. It has different extracting system, so there's nothing to say about the comments suggesting that I was involved in a possible copy. The pusher is similar, but It's not an engineer panacea's design. Just a cylinder as Rober said. - I'm sure of Insaro tested all the different kit references in different gearbox. The piece works and fits perfectly. There are different finishing designs from one that was seen in the pictures. So think that they are ready to fit properly with special grooves (each reference has its own design to be fitted). Not all the picture references was showed in the web. - If the main bearing is going to fail, the ceramic ball (not metallic parts) as well said Pac996 the oil filter will do its job. The large bearing support and the external 3 screw piece will keep fitted on and thanks to the triple special sealing, you'll never suffer a IMS leak. The 20 mm support could hold 4 tons, and the IMS tube will not fall down. - Important: If someone's going to purchase a retrofit kit like these is becasue he is well informed of the possible internal M96 engine troubles. If you would sell any kit to an user, you must explain how to proceed in case of a hypothetic bearing failure, so the system was designed to hold the engine the time needed to do any maneuvers you'll have to undertake. So he will save the engine, because it won't be out of point. - Insaro is a product MADE IN SPAIN. In Europe we have a strong currency (Euro € = 1,3032 $ today). That's a handicap for people who import things from Europe, as we've been suffering since a I was a child with a strong dollar. Nevertheless Rober will come here again to explain the rest.

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If an engine has one of our magnetic drain plugs, it will attract the ferrous debris from a failing ORIGINAL ims bearing and you will certainly find some debris as well in the oil filter. With the stock oil filter arrangement, it goes into bypass at very low pressure, so when debris starts to circulate and get in the filter, it quickly gets pushed back out into the engine through the bypass! With a ceramic (sintered silicon nitride) bearing, there is no ferrous debris for a magnetic drain plug to collect. These ***** do not flake either. Their failure mode is if they were to explode (or get crushed, etc.), they revert basically back to the powdered state they were before the sintering process (to very greatly dumb down the process) The last thing you want circulating in an engine is chunks of sintered silicon nitride. It's hard (has to be machined with diamond). It will destroy everything inside the engine if the engine is run long enough to circulate the debris. We know this from our years of experience running silicon nitride lifters in pushrod engines. If you do happen to break a lifter (and have chunks circulate), the engine is toast.

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I have read Roberto's posted specifications on the Lifeguard secondary bearing, but those specifications are useless in practical application unless you have proper lubrication for this bearing AND it is installed with the proper press required to pre-load the bearing. I have already asked if this bearing is indeed in contact with the IMS shaft (pressed in) during normal operation, with no answer from Roberto on this. Any bearing mis-applied, installed, or loaded won't perform properly for long. That brings me to my next question. How can the claim of 60 hours be substantiated? Even if it will run for 60 hours (which I would like to see proof of before such a claim could be made), the f.o.d. will take out the engine from a secondary failure well before then, guaranteed. That's a tough one to prove. You'd have to be driving in such a manner on public roads that you're a hazard to other drivers to be in such a position where a sudden power loss would put you in a hazardous position. Maybe if you're driving in the Kink at Road America, that might be another story entirely... There have been several complains filed with the NHTSA with regards to IMS failures and sudden power loss, having had contact with them by email, and still they have not deemed there to be enough merit to force a recall or even investigate the issue further. When we first started working with the M96, we got grilled on why anything we did was better than the factory, since "P" can do no wrong. All I'm asking for now is substantiation of claims with proof and documentation, as was expected of us. We have waited and have been left with more questions than answers.

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I agree and want to applaud all of you as well. I've not used any of these products yet but when clutch replacement time comes I will seriously consider going this route in order to keep my engine running longer. Having these options is a truly a huge benefit to all of us M96 owners!

Collateral damage from foreign object debris is the number one reason why we can't save most engines that have experienced an IMS bearing failure. This secondary damage quickly takes out critical clearances within the engine that requires full tear down to facilitate the repair of. I would like to know how many IMS bearing failures the team from Spain has had first person interface with. If they have any experience at all they'll know the secondary damage is what kills the hopes for a repair in most every situation. I still have not seen the pictures of this solution being used in actual operation, or with a manual flywheel thats stock and non modified. Do these exist? I also question how this design will accommodate the different designs of IMS drive, be it the duplex style chain (used through 2000) or the later style (used 2001-) as the two use different IMS sprockets and have varying flanges. Looking at the pictured design I can't wrap my head around how this design can be outfitted to a -2001 engine. The other challenge is how the secondary bearing that is fitted into the tube can accommodate the various ID variations of the IMS tube from year to year. These IMS tubes are not precision components on the ID because in factory form the ID is of no specific use. The IMS tube is a low grade steel tube that can measure all over the place with a precision device anywhere along its longitudinal axis. I know these things, because I have learned everything I know about these engines from their dissection, manipulation and reconstruction. This wasn't gained with software, a book or asking people questions. I finally learned enough to instruct others how to do the work with the same mindset and right now I am writing the book on it. I'll close by saying that I greatly respect the effort that went into this design of retrofit and that I have zero ill feelings toward this group or anyone else who chooses to jump on the bandwagon. We have all the business that we want and anymore would take away our personal interface and support that we want to maintain no matter what. I feel the more options that become available will prove the method that Charles and I attacked this from offers the least compromise, easiest installation and best overall value/ return on investment. I'd like to take a trip to Spain, meet this team and see how this actually works in an engine. What does your winter schedule look like Roberto?

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Jake, I must say that It sounded funny

I'ld like to go to Spain too.... who's footin the tab nice - very nice!! I really like the tone of this thread

Ha, ha! Come to Spain guys! Rober is from Bilbao in the northern of Spain. Here they have the awesome Guggenheim Musseum by Frank O. Gehry Bilbao is very nice, and It's one of the most important places at gastronomy. So with these exciting things to visit, you'll have an unforgettable travel.

beautiful !!

nice pics man.... looks like a great trip.

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Thanks friends! Spain is a small country compared to USA, but we have a lot of interesting and diverse things to see. Near to Bilbao there is a beautiful winery, an impressive hotel inside the famous winery 'Marques de Riscal' in the small village called "El Ciego": It's another work of art from Frank O. Gehry, with the same style, but in a paradise vineyard with spa and bathing resort: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa7iZXfMKoY

Joaquin- are you near Barcelona? I will be there Oct. 7-10 & Oct. 17-21 and would like to meet you and see this puppy. Let me know if you will be in the area! John

No sorry... I live in Madrid 600 km far from Barcelona

Are we going to get a response from Roberto?

Joaquin- sorry we can't hook-up. My wife is very upset since I mentioned to her that you are a Jeweler. John

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Charles, I told him to come back here and clearing the rest of the questions. But as you know this is a forum and not everybody is so active and have enough time to come in inmediately. For what I know, and for several phone conversations, he's a very busy guy. I think he wouldn' t have any problem to explain some more things, but It seems to be like a Justice Court. I showed the piece, he explained the working task, and more other things, and I don't know where you want to go, if after explanation, are asking lots of questions... If I were him I'll give only the just explanations, because as you know, nobody who developed an innovative piece, must give too much details. If someone would ask me the complete details, I'll give him all the info, but only if he swaps me Coca-Cola's formula in a information change. In Spain we have a popular phrase which say "those who wants to know more than the just thing, go to school to learn". Are you going to tell us the whole secrets of your products? The piece works, told me that were mounted in 2 Boxster (normal and S) with different gearbox last week, in a 996 Carrera manual... Everybody knows that if someone do not answer all the questions made, we'll always see the same argument = "that guy didn't want to response because he hasn't the faintest idea what to say", or perhaps, "we put pressure on him and we got it... he is a fibber..." I particularly think that It is Rober's business, and though here was an interesting thread, he's the owner of the knowlegde and the owner of the limits to be showed. Thanks Charles Joaquin

Yep. Been there. We had to answer the questions and deal with the fallout from the development of a solution and we still do.. Day after day, either he needs to learn how to deal with that now or just give up while he is ahead!

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And others will learn there will be competitive designs entering the market, whether they want to verbally joust with previous suppliers or not.

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This discussion has been kept friendly and open with the sharing of information, and as such, the moderators have not locked the thread. There is nothing wrong with competition. Without these driving forces there wouldnt be a catalyst to spur on continued innovation. All things aside, all we are asking that if someone is going to advertise bold claims that they back up those claims. Not just make a hit and run on the forum and expect everyone to accept it as gospel. If you choose to come on these forums, you have to be willing to put on your flame suit on from time to time.

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I agree totally, and I'm sure you would agree it should apply as well to advertising that implies our M96-powered cars are all eventually going "TICK TICK BOOM".

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BINGO!

I am a forum member for 2 years and visit it daily. I haven't post anything because I just use search and I am getting all the answers. After reading this topic from day 1 I want to express how I feel about this situation. I respect every engineer about his innovations and great ideas to find solutions. What I really hate is when I feel that some people trying to take advantage of the anxiousness of the consumers. To charge a bearing 1700 dollars because the engine costs 10000 dollars is madness. I am sure if the cost of the engine was 3000 the same bearing was going to cost 700 dollars. On the other hand LNEngineering’s offering, makes sense. I believe that you pay 250 for the parts and around 250 for the innovation. At the end of the day this discussion is a win win situation. Many forum users have lost their sleep (including me ) because they had the chance to understand the problem. Jake and Charles will sell even more bearings and also a few will pay the extra money for insaro’s solution. P.S. I have no connection win LN Engineering and actually I am from a small country far away called Cyprus in Mediterranean Sea. I sure they don’t even know it’s existence Excuse my English but my primary language is Greek.

yiannos, you expressed yourself quite well. Basically, to each his own. They can make their own decisions. Do your research and ask plenty of questions. First post in 2 years, from Cyprus? And no pictures

This thread actually reads like "Get outta my sandbox!!!" ....but then...i dont even have a toy to play with yet.

Quotes source post: 7914044

The vendor haters have arrived.. Now things are going to get spicy! The tick, tick boom ad hasn't ran since the March issue of Excellence.. Before that it only ran for 3 issues. I suppose the ad did its job as it certainly wasn't forgettable! Heck, I might go back to that ad, I had a lot of fun with it. Lots of people bought that ad in poster form, they loved it! I came up with that ad concept, you should have seen the one that I paid for, it was too insane even for me to run! Fact is EVERY mechanical component will go "tick, tick boom" at some point.. Every engine in the world is killing its self with every revolution of the crankshaft.. Its kind of like a Human, the day you are born you start to die... The majority of people appreciate what we do and what we share. There is always a group of vendor haters that will oppose any efforts and will go out of their way to create things to complain about. Thats just life. It keeps me inspired.

Semper Fi, Jake.

Just because a designed like a tank IMS bearing is replaced, there will not be other issues in a M96 engine. There are ovaling of cylinder walls requiring new sleeves in high mile blocks, cracked 1-3 head causing intermix to be rewelded and worn chain guides. Where does it end? I like the idea of a IMS bearing which which falls into a clutch/flywheel service intervals. Jake and Charles have designed the perfectly priced part for that. It is not so expensive and appears to be the perfect application for what the M96 engine needs.

Quotes source post: 7914555

Semper Fi

all in all... I agree its a good thread and I dont get the "get out of my sandbox" at all... I see new idea with old ideas (funny how I think of LNE's as old ) asking how the new one works... thats it. AND as of yet, no answer as to how it works....the depth of the bearing in dual row -vs- single row, the dual mass flywheel clearance ect... be pretty mad if I ordered a part (kit) and pulled my tranny out THEN found out it didnt fit.... so I could wait around for a retro-fit to the retro-fit...in the meantime my car or my customers car has been sitting without a transmission for ?????days/months

Very good point, Ed.

I think that all the comments made here are very respectable I understand Jake's and Charles' stance about the introduction of Insaro's kit. When something like this happens, It's common wanted to know about it. Besides, I understand all the rest from other guys here too. I'm not Insaro, and as I'm not anyone with capabilities to explain more details that I knew, this is not my business. I am the original poster, yes. I tried to share information with rennlist fellows. Just that. I'm not going to say that I didn't try to help Rober in explaining details, and sure that as I did by myself, I involved him in this 'game', because he is a soloporsche fellow, but not my friend, or someone I share any business with. I must say that I did the same thing in our spanish forum trying to explain, translate and share as much information about Flat6 Innovations/LN Engineering as I could. There are thousands of messages read in Soloporsche about it, with a positive discussion. Just go there and do a search. So, I'm not taking part for anybody as I said that I'm free to write, because I don't sell anything. When I posted an ironic comment yesterday about the asking questions, perhaps someone couldn't interpreted it in a bad manner, or perhaps thought I was a bit aggresive, but I must say that there wasn't my intention. It's a missunderstanding. Concerning to the answers you were waiting for, and trying to help you, I only know (since my ignorance) that the clearance with the dual mass flywheel was perfectly calculated, and the 3 screw external piece showed in the web is one of the different pieces made. The others that you're asking for, have their proper grooves and different design to fit correctly. Just what I can say. No one engineer is going to launch anything that doesn't fit and doesn't work. Regarding to the single or double row bearing, I was told that there are different references too. Neverthelees, if someone is very very interested in how it works, you could contact to Rober directly. Ask him for pictures where you could see the differences between the several references he made. For expample: If I were going to purchase a double row bearing kit for a 996 manual, I'll ask him for more information too. greetings

Quotes source post: 7914491

It certainly did. And, no 'vendor hating' on my part. In fact I applaud your marketing as sheer genius. You've very cleverly never actually come out and made any specific claim as to the frequency of failures, which keeps you insulated from being called upon for proof. Yet by the same token, by inserting yourself into numerous internet fora you've managed to fan the flames of fear enough to create a huge market for your product. Aside from hearsay, only a tiny number (compared to total engines delivered) of actual owner reports of IMS bearing failures can be found on the 'net, and most of them are a year or more old. Thus far, I have not seen a single report of someone doing the retrofit and finding significant wear on the original bearing. Speaking with a couple of garages who have done the retrofits, I am told the same thing. Yet now, not one but two other vendors have joined the market you created. Hate you? Are you kidding? I'm in awe of you. Not since my youth during the Cold War years of the early 60s have I seen such exquisite exploitation of human emotion for personal profit. All the slick campaigns I've been pitched that promise to attract patients into my office aren't remotely as effective as what you've been able to do. You're a true visionary when it comes to internet marketing. So no hate here, just unabashed praise and admiration.

I installed one of LN's bearings about 6 mos ago. I think most of us are intrigued with the idea of the double bearing. What is lacking is evidence that it not only fits, but stands up to real world use over time--and maybe, that its needed at all. I waited for at least a year of people using LN's product before I chose it for my engine. I would want to wait at least that long and would want to hear significant positive testimony about the double-bearing version over time before I'd consider it as an option. Although Joaquin (OP) says he has no personal interest in this, he has posted promotional materials about this on every major Porsche forum I've seen. So he is motivated....for whatever reason. At this point, I'm motivated to ignore any more arguments for or against. I'm more interested in evidence. The banter makes such a big point of what the bearing can do, but hidden in the background are all the problems it can cause if it doesn't work -- anywhere from having to try to send it back (and install a different one) if it doesn't fit -- to a ruined engine. I'm hard pressed to feel like I have any recourse with a startup in Europe if there are fundamental problems in a design that cost me an engine. Let us know as you have real examples over time of installations that have been operating for many miles. I guess I'm also intrigued to hear if any installations ever actually needed the second bearing (i.e., that the primary bearing failed and the engine was saved by the second). The second bearing may make sense in principle, but never actually be needed if the primary one is designed well. So, it may be extra cost for no practical value. Evidence....evidence...evidence....

I don't really know how to respond to all that.. Except its funny that I haven't sold a single IMS bearing kit since February of this year!!! We get the calls but direct them directly to LN, we don't have the time to support the sales!! All that marketing isn't even benefiting us monetarily, I gusss that says a lot about the loyalty I have to LN and our 13 year relationship of development together. Lets don't get off topic or dramatic.. I still have some questions as to the insaro arrangement and I'd really like to gain a better comprehension of that from this topic.. Thats all I'd like at this point. FWIW- Charles and I were here working after our class a cuple of nights ago. We worked well after 0200 in the morning on changes to the IMS bearing web pages and video. At 0230 my office phone rings, I think that its Charles who had just retired to his room for the evening so I aswe the phone "WHAT!"... Never dreaming it would be a business call at 0230, well it was. Seems that someone in California had just experienced an IMS bearing failure and spun in his own oil. He was calling us for support at that time of the morning for some crazy reason so I gave him the phone number to Callas Rennsport who is just down the road and he called Tony.... Amazing! As i type this, my assistant, Dean is on the phone with a customer who had an IMS bearing failure over the weekend and Dean is filling out the failure log on the occurrence right now. Quite some time ago we started logging all this information to make it a bit easier to substantiate when the time comes, or when we are questioned. In some cases those with failures agree to be voice recorded to share the experience. Yes, these failures are occurring and even some who are Rennlist members have called us, mentioned the forums but state they have not posted their failure there, primarily because they just don't want to deal with the crap. Here there are more lurkers than posters, just because you haven't read about it don't believe that it hasn't occurred. This is why I began the log books and bearing serialization for all our retrofits. I cover my ***!

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Yes. I postes it in Renntech, 6 speed and Here. I'm proud of having soulfly (Roberto) as an active user in Soloporsche, and he shared with us the develop of this kit 'made in Spain' You can read it in DIY #122 in Soloporsche, so I told them that I were going to show it. That's all. Nevertheless you can ask all Soloporsche users how I am, and how I use to proceed.

I don't see any harm in people continuing to innovate at their own risk and expense, nor in people self-promoting. I'd say those two things are pretty central to our way of life, actually. That said, the proof will always be in the pudding. My LN retrofit went in in June of 09, and my engine gets the worst use you can imagine. That's not much of a record of performance, but it's still a record. I'll be keen to see how the new piece does in service. Until then, it's not much better than bench racing to debate it.

Quotes source posts: 7916017, 7916017

That's the real truth You hit on the nail. If only one of the kits that were sold for the different manufacturers suffered a fail, their prestige would fall down, and loose all that they did. So, besides they developed a very useful thing, they are asumming a high risk. I'm sure that if is was mounted correctly, just forget it, and enjoy the car.

I think part of the problem some have is a function of language and culture. In the US, we have the culture of "prove it" and you don't get far with assertions of "this is the best" without someone asking for proof. juankimalo, your postings are full of theory and adjectives but I'm looking for detail that I can understand and a history of successful performance in a supplier. If I were considering this product, I'd sure as heck ask the following questions... How many cars has this part been installed on? For what period of time? How many miles on the most used? What were the results of its last oil test? Exactly what were the model years and transmission types of the cars the part has been installed on? What was the condition of the IMS that was removed from the cars where the parts were installed? How many HP do you lose by having to spin that extra mass? Show the dyno results before and after. What entity within my legal system will stand behind the product and pay if there is a future problem? What is their financial strength? Exactly what is in the kit and what other tools are required for the installation? Is there a shop in my area that has experience installing this product? What support do you provide the installer in the local language? You are asking someone to pay at least 3x the cost of another product that has hundreds of installations and several years of exposure to the real world on the basis of assertions. Your price is around one third the price of a used replacement engine. I like the theory. Now prove with detail that it works and will work for me and that it is worth 3x to 8x the price of competing products. If I have read Jake/Charles right, it took hundreds of installations before they had all of the variations in removal tools and procedures and in installation and product before they could say this product will work for you. Now I'm hearing you may have installed it on a few cars...how do I know my car is one of the variants it will work on? Good luck with your product. I applaud the novel idea and am glad there may be another product to consider. You think I'm being tough on you, you should have been listening as I queried Jake and Charles and Ed over months about their product.

I see that there is also a 4th bearing for sale by the Autofarm firm in the UK. 1700 pounds... That better include install! If not it's crazy pricing like this that sucks the life out of 996/986 used car values.

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If you read the website it is NOT a 4th bearing. It is the LN/Raby unit.

ABSOLUTELY! So did everyone else and they still do! Over time it has gotten better, the installations and pleased retrofit owners have certainly helped as well. Remember fellas, what we ALL are doing isn't supposed to happen.. according to the MFR the dual row IMS bearing is non serviceable from the factory and still today Porsche service writers maintain that the bearing CANNOT be extracted from a dual row outfitted IMS.

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Yep!

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My bad. Although in my defense they make it *seem* like it's their idea and part.

Thats the work of an ad agency..

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Hello Mike: I think you are right asking this questions. I'll probably do the same before moving a single finger. So, the only thing I could do is email the manufacturer (Rober) and show him your doubts to be answered. I'll do that. Nevertheless, if someone needs info, here is the manufacturer's email: [email removed] What I want to say that It's not mine , not my product, and not my business, but as i was the poster, i'll send this questions to him.

Quotes source post: 7916863

To that point, I would be interested in knowing the benchmarking procedure as well, especially if I'm going to do the install on a ~US$20,000 engine - have you pulled the retrofit out of the engine and examined after 1000, 2000, 5000km? What are the results of those tests, etc...?

as to the quality of the product and its fitness for use, you have become the face of the product. And since you have done this in multiple online forums, you are in my mind advertising for them so I associate you with the product as you seem to be acting as their spokesperson.

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WTF is this then https://rennlist.com/forums/7666157-post24.html JEEZ... ya know maybe the market wasnt created by Jake Raaby... maybe the market was created by a problem that no one was addressing and FWIW most people who drive these cars DONT go on forums, I see plenty of IMS failures PLENTY !!!! I hate to break it to you pal but the problem is plenty real for those it happens to.. <rant off>

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You can think whatever you want. I told all of you in a Very clear way who is the manufacturer and who I am. Do you think that I'm associated with LN/Raby too? You might!!! Because I advertised their kits in Soloporsche making free publicity, translating articles and trying to help the rest of Soloporsche users in knowing the product.And here too. All of this WITH NO ECONOMIC INTEREST. The same as Rober's kit. I told him that I were going to help him and trying to share info in the english forums I freccuent. So you can post whatever you want. I'm not going to repeat it more times 'cause I don't have to give more explanations to anyone who is looking for the dark side of this thing. I consider very interesting these kind of threads but if you are going to imagine a conspiracy at this point I have nothing to add.

here are pics of a that bearing.... looks great

Where is Rover??

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very true - lots of people that are affected by this don't even know about car forums. VP of Marketing where I work had an IMS failure last week. His car (boxter S) was daily driven (summer and winter) with 230,000 kms on it (144,000 miles) - which suggests that higher miles does not mean the bearings are good which some people suggested before

sorry guys, I know I went a bit "off" there. I know these damn IMS threads are about as popular as death, and I am in no way trying to generate fear. the thread is one of discussing a new option available for those who wish to replace thier IMS bearing. I dont want to go OT and start the fear generating hype. That has zero value. The above post also had zero value when attacking Jake and kinda pi$$ed me off... I am sorry... lets keep it on topic and hear what the people generating the new product have to say about questions raised. That is of some benefit IMO I for one am curious as to some of the claims presented. I think I asked about how a replacement could be made after a failure when failures normally chew up the the IMS gear center bearing mating surface. there were also clearance questions raised... for those interested in learing more - I think the thread still has worth - The LNE has been proven ????thousands??? of times to be a nice kit at a reasonable price. I have never heard any fit issues or alike - The stock bearings last and last too, or dont, but that is not what this thread is about

Ed, no appology necessary...most of us feel the same way as you! *smile*

I still want to learn more... I still want top know how it fits without flywheel interference. I haven't seen the photos yet that illustrate it on a manual car. The area of interference isn't just a little bit.. My students saw that last week in person, they touched the parts too.

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It seems you may have missed my link earlier that shows the IMS we pulled out of the 31,000 996 I bought for $10K with a motor "knock". See link here: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...ft_Bearing.htm This is definitely a real problem with these engines - it's not imagined. It's very easy to find these motors with these problems. -Wayne

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When Barracuda did the IMS home made upgrade, his car had 105.000 km He sent me the OEM bearing and the bearing support to copy the same as he did. After an inspection of his original bearing It was in perfect condition. No ***** wear, and perfect rolling without dissalignment. http://soloporsche.com/showthread.php?t=33716 As I did the same same operation, but my car was only 37.000 km, my original bearing was perfect too. But thanks to your information, we know that they suffer a wear, and the best thing is to replace them

in that link his IMS shaft is WAY off center like he did not pull the chain tensioners??? how is it that he was able to get it back together and did he have to re-time tha cams? seems to be some missing info because that is a problem, then its shown all together as if by magic it just "worked" ????

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to grasp that a component quality issue can be one of consistency to specification as opposed to design. Given Porsche's financial problems at the time, uneven quality from a badly chosen or badly managed vendor would seem unsurprising and pretty typical of how these things go. It's odd that anybody believes a problem has to be absolutely consistent in every example in order to be legitimate. Manufacturers can only dream of that kind of consistency. The fact that some cars are 'fine' actually proves that the design, at least, was viable. The fact that some cars are not proves that there was a quality issue with a component vendor. The logical fix, therefore, is an improved component. The only fly in this soup is that there's no cheap way to predict whether you're going to need it. At the end of the day, that's the only real basis of debate, here. Some people rationally play the odds, and some people prefer insurance.

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Ha ha You hit on the nail! Barracuda is an amateur mechanic . He did it at his garage at home. He didn't fixed the chain tensioners well. Then when he would finished the complete operation and starting the engine on, he realized that It was working in a single half engine. Turned it off, phoned to assurance and toe his car to Marbella (M�laga) 110 km far from his home (La linea, Cadiz). Then they did the adjusting Job of re-timing chains. New oil needed again... It increased the price. After that he is enjoying his car and made more than 10.000 km without any problem It was incredible! In our Soloporsche national meetting he told us his experience and gave us lots of details. Imagine more than 20 people listening to an interesting technical conversation based on a rare never heard before IMS bearing upgrading!!!! There were several mechanics in that meeting who were astonished to hear him. He decided to do this, using his logical reasoning and stretching his brain (sure this is an incorrect expression of my poor english). He asked Porsche to replace that problematic bearing and they told him that this was impossible. But he tried to do it when the clutch service arrived. He built his own extractor and the rest is well exposed in the link. Perhaps you could see as a funny solution the "cork end seal" . In that Soloporsche meeting someone told him about an existing kit called LN. He didn't know anything about them, in fact he says "LM" ... The hybrid bearing was an advise from his brother in-low (working in a industrial machine pieces store), and he was said that the ceramic ***** very superior to steel ones. So at least this is a Very impressive anecdote for me.

sounds like he got lucky !! thats a case where "fixing" something could be worse than leaving it alone, very lucky indeed

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Bruce, in Soloporsche (a small community compared to rennlist or other US forums) we have more than 50 documented engine failures. http://soloporsche.com/showthread.php?t=20608 I tried to compile data and give a claim to Porsche Iberica (spanish import dealer). I opened a thread in which we asked for Porsche workers to explain their real experiences. We received an extended explanation about this issue by a responsible of a Porsche Center, and how Porsche was procceeding. His final conclusion was that this engine has a real wrong design, but not only for the IMS, besides It's plenty of fragility. In Barcelone, tehre are to Porsche Authorized Dealers. One of them replaced at least, one engine per week, last year. Not everybody who enjoys a Porsche are so freak as we are here in the internet specific Porsche forums. http://soloporsche.com/showthread.ph...t=trabajadores The IMS is one of the most important problem in M96 family, but It's very well know here several years ago. In soloporsche we count with a real expert who knows each detail of Zuffenhausen, and constantly in contact to Motorsport division 26 years ago. He always said that this engine was a complete designed disaster. But I'm not going to say the same things that were told for others here, because this is an old tale, well know for everybody who wanted search for information. Nevertheless, I love my 996, and enjoy very much driving it, and hope to do it for a long time. I extreme the cares, the maintenance, the way of driving, the oil tipe, etc.

One thing is certain, the cause of the bearing failures is unknown and unpredictable. That is why with the upcoming Pelican kit, we recommend replacing it every 30-40K miles. I believe that installing Charles' super-duper ceramic bearing will help tremendously to extend the life of the bearing/IMS assembly. But since no one fully understands the failure mechanism or the factors that influence it, repeated failures in the future are possible regardless of which type of bearing you use. This was somewhat accentuated by the fact that both the single and double row bearings fail in a similar manner under similar conditions (meaning that it's not an overloading condition on the bearing). It it my opinion that the best method to guard against failure is to replace the bearing often (30-40K miles). -Wayne

All due respect, Wayne, that's conjecture until someone comes up with a failed aftermarket bearing. I don't wish it on anybody (least of all me), but that's what it would take to convince me that this is a wear item. Again, the simple logic is that they don't all fail. Thus, the design is feasible if the bearings are up to the job. It's axiomatic.

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Hebmuller from Soloporsche, told us the same explanation as the Porsche Motorsport Division friend. It's very difficult to translate but I'll try. He works in Porsche and as an expert engineer, have enough information to say those comments that we are not used to hear. We must say that in Soloporsche, the 3 admins talked to him before alowing the registry. (we checked the real identity). http://soloporsche.com/showpost.php?...1&postcount=48 Sorry for the translation, but It was not easy... Good evening guys, and excuse that I’m not going to reveal my real name because I‘m working for Porsche Company - Why are 996-997 and 986-987 engines failing? First of all we must deny that 997/987 were failing the same as 996/986, but the truth is that they haven't enough km. done yet. Till they launched the second generation 997/987 Mk2 they didn't fit the problem. Unfortunately all you know the problem, and It’s the IMS bearing failure due to the internal steel ***** wear which make the bearing fail and cause a breakdown. They took the more simple decision: to delete it out of the engine design. Before this, they tried to reinforce the area but It was unsuccessful 'cause It was a wrong conception, a wrong design not a failure due to a bad quality of the materials employed. There's a thing that we have to understand clearly. Porsche was producing an exceptional engine (GT1 block based), and this was the one which built the indestructible Porsche reputation, but It was too much expensive to produce. Porsche was in a tricky economic period, and our loved Wendelin, saved the brand selling the Boxster, 996 , Cayenne for hundred of thounsands without any difficulty. They earned a lot of money in each product, which was very cheap to produce, nor those cars with the GT1 core. They offered a boxer engine (6 opposed cylinders) whre the shaft works in a steel block, into 2 aluminum halfblocks. They sold it as a brilliant idea to save weight as It could use aluminum blocks (cheaper than steel) which didn't support the efforts directly, as the steel internal block was the one which was designed to received those efforts. Not very bad idea, but... both ultralight aluminun halfblocks (and too much cheaper than GT1) had to support IMS, shaft pulleys,... and what's more: besides the normal efforts they have to support, they add a new effort, don't forget that the crankshaft was installed in a 'false' steel block into both aluminun blocks. The expand coefficient of the different parts (aluminun and steel blocks) is not the same and sometimes the allignment is not perfect. It's something like if the crankshaft and the IMshaft, didn't work in parallels way. They are only a few thousandths of mm but working at these rpm, and with both light aluminum cast blocks, they finally produce a little imbalance into the bearing *****. GT1 core based engines, have no this problem because they are different and the are the most reliable engines in Porsche brand. Oddly they are the most powerful and sporty models, like GT2, GT3, GT3 RS, and TT, in both models 996 and 997. They are very strong and their owners like to track their cars and ask too much of them. - Why Porsche didn't move any finger to solve it? Excuse me but I have to say that part of the problem is in the Porsche enthusiastics, because they didn't make any decision. The same people who said that the 944 was an Audi transformed and not a real Porsche, because It wasn't a 911... they rised the 911 to the heaven instead of admit that It's a certain problematic car. But the proud of nine-eleveners is too high to pass through. Then if there's a fantastic product which never fails, why to change something which is a best seller? 11 years after the 1st M96 engine was produced, as a protective enviroment hard law, they decided to susbtitute M96/M97 engine by the new generation, and solve this deffect at the same time. - Do Porsche think about their customers sattisfaction? The only aim of Porsche is to get care about the customers buying new vehicles. When a customer suffers an IMS bearing failure, and is the first owner, Porsche Centers don't use to deny a new engine replacement, including in the most times, to customers out of warranty. When you are the first owner, all the inspections made in you offcial dealer, and out of warranty, you could receive a special treatment if you claim hardly. When you go to the dealer being the second or third owner, we directly charge the whole engine budget. We don't care about these customers: that's Porsche policy. - Will my 996 be a longlife car if I overcare the engine? Some years ago, one of the most common reasons about engine failures was driving fast, hard driving, high revs... This was a bad excuse and in the whole life, a 996 engine is in a 60% range of efforts (a 300 HP car). Think that in a 'miserable' Renault Clio 1.1 lit. we are driving at high rev. almost the complete engine life because It has no enough power to go up a simple ramp. And a Renault Clio engine is almost eternal compared to a 'real Porsche'. A IMS failure is caused in a random way , more than a high revs vehicle. I worked in lots opened engines, Tiptronics (not a hig revs pass through) with only 40.000 km, other manuals, 997, 996, well cared, bad cared , and it's fortuitous. It's just the same as playing to russian roulette, but instead of with a single bullet, with 3 bullets... because the frequency is too high. - What can we users do? You have to claim hardly, you have to compile data, you have to join efforts, to show it to the car magazines. You might condemn it I'm a Porsche lover. I really love the brand but It's too hard for me writing things like these. I always am defending 924, 928 and the rest of models that 911ers don't like as a real Porsche. Sorry for the brick (spanish expression for these long paragraphs)

I can't believe no one has chimed in on this for 4 hours.

I didnt read it all but dont care to turn this into a fear thread... lets keep it to: New Product Intro Does it work Does it fit Whats the cost How does it differ from others what makes the differance better or worse no fear/slander of the motors/company/ect Just my opinion

Fine by me. I'm no basher. I've had 3 M96 cars and will likely have another one unless I break down and buy a Turbo next time. My 3.6 Boxster may keep me happy for a long time though.

The ultimate IMS upgrade for a 996 C2, IMO:

OK what is that, a Turbo engine or a V8? Share the details!

turbo. PS. Sorry about the slight hijack of this thread. I get mi coat...

is that your car? I would love to see the details of how the install was done.

Wouldn't that be fun, a stealth turbo. I wonder what a new TT engine would cost these days.

Dreams are made of this!

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Few details here , but I'm too lazy to write about the project in detail. Plus I managed to lose some pictures. There's some pictures about the suspension over here. Post # 23.

pete gets my vote for the "ulitimate ims upgrade"

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WOW

Quotes source post: 7915875

Jake yes it is. its just not instant gratification. I can tell you if i ever need major engine work, Guess where the engine is coming from? With out me buying the bearing from you. I woudl have never known about you. So yes.... IMO you need to sell these bearing kits. Just and observation

Shark, Thanks for that.. You can't imagine the support thats required for the IMS bearing kits... Remember how many times I had to talk to you from my office, from the road and from home during yours??? Thats just a small exaple of what every bearing requires during install and people demand it. Thats the reason why I stopped selling them, if any of us have to walk away from an engine to assist with bearing extraction/ insertion that could cost us that engine thats on the bench and that starts at 20K. I refuse to have anyone who doesn't install these bearings answer people's questions and assist them because that breeds problems like bent valves. We never had those problems because I didn't give them a chance to occur.. Now we just carry out the procedures and life is much, much better and the phone doesn't hold me hostage! With every kit sold comes the chance of absolute catastrophe if someone does something thats not smart, then we end up in all sorts of trouble.. If I am going to be responsible for something, I want to make the mistake that I have to "pay for" with my own hands.. Being responsible for the mistakes of others sucks!