26 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHmetal fillings in filter-see latest Panorama
Leading reported evidence
Install during my last oil change
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Which reminds me that I meant to have a magnetic drain plug installed during my last oil change...
Leading evidence: 'Install during my last oil change' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'possibly bearing wear' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check into a warranty' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
a shame, but sounds like someone ran the car low on oil or with other issues...
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Discussions that suspect a cause
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Suspected cause
If oil pressure lower than normal that's cause to suspect possibly bearing wear.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
Drive the car some miles -- at least until the oil gets hot -- then drop the filter housing and pour the oil/filter into a clean *clean* drain pan.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
26 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
(Ref. Panorama is the national monthly PCA magazine)
My September edition of Panorama arrived yesterday, and as usual I immediately thumbed to the TECH Q&A section. The first inquiry had to do with a recently purchased 2000 996 that had undergone an IMS replacement a year earlier. Now, the new owner has discovered metal fillings in the oil filter.
The PCA Tech Committee responded "replace the engine, those metal filings are bearing material".
OK, boys, what say you?
relinuca
IMS replaced with what? Stock? Homemade? LNE's?
how much metal?
We have seen some pretty heavy amounts of metal in filters and saved the motors, who knows how long they will last though. This is just dumb and dumber... Personally I could easier give you a haircut over the telephone than diagnos metal in the filter without being inside the motor
Many say there is fear mongoring on here, but THAT is just stupid to say "replace the motor, its bearing material" without a full diagnosis right there, right in your hands. - so go buy a new motor... there, problem solved
I thought it was pretty extreme. In the writer's defense, it was really financial advice rather than mechanical advice: He was basically saying that the net cost of a new motor with a running core exchange would be cheaper and lower risk than opening up the one the guy has. Still, though, it was a pretty bold diagnosis for an email exchange.
I was surprised that the tech writer let the 'IMS replacement' go by. Really? The whole shaft was replaced? Really? Seemed worth clarifying.
Looks to me like Pano pronounced the patient DOA after hearing eyes closed and not moving. Relinuca, I share your thought exactly. They should of at least sat the writer down first and offered him a beer before throwing his car over the cliff!
I recently had 2 customers with engines that had metal in the pan and I recommended both to do new engines without much teardown.
First one had hard knocking noise in engine and had finished last lap of banked track racing that way. Upon pulling oil filter, drain plug, and then pan we found lots of brass thru all.
Second one also on track had loss of power, big puff of smoke then oil and coolant coming out of exhaust, pulling plugs resulted in coolant out of a couple holes, and then pulling oil pan resulted in seeing a wrist pin circlip, chunk of cylinder, and other misc. metal pieces.
If caught early enough a rebuild or repair is possible, but there is a point in which you can safely say a new Porsche motor would be best and most cost effective.
the OP (panarama) did not mention a knock or coolant coing out of the spark plugs...that's differant.
If I had metal in the filter I would be changing my oil ever 500 miles and praying ALOT ! I would pull the IMS and check the pan, maybe pull the valve covers and look at the cams and lifters. Then more praying
Who did the IMS replacement? Porsche parts used or aftermarket?
Maybe there's a warranty on the replacement?
Without seeing the metal in the oil, the amount, the particle size, the type of metal hard to say what's going on.
If oil change first since IMS replacement the stuff could be just the normal shedding of metal new parts make and an engine that's been "disturbed".
If the metal is ferrous or is something other than aluminum... not normal and probably signals serious trouble around the corner.
I'd check into a warranty.
Similar to another poster, I'd advise changing the oil/filter then driving the car some. No need to get agressive with the car. Just drive the car. No need to stray far from home, cell phone coverage and a tow truck just in case.
Stay away from heavy traffic and stick to roads where's there's plenty of room to pull over and quick in case engine goes belly up. At first/any sign of untoward engine noises shut off engine as soon as possible and leave it off.
Drive the car some miles -- at least until the oil gets hot -- then drop the filter housing and pour the oil/filter into a clean *clean* drain pan.
Report what you find. If oil free of metal traces install new filter and top up oil and repeat but this time drive more miles. And always keep ear out for engine sounds.
If the 100 mile oil has metal in it, more than just a trace, then it is decision time on what to do: Tear down to evaluate engine for rebuild or just source a replacement engine using the sick engine as a core?
Sincerely,
Macster.
one thing to note is that the reader accurately described the material in shape and size.. comparing the "significant" material found in pieces 2-3mm of size to very thin foil...
the response was that this type material is not realted to intermediate shaft bearings, but usually rod or main bearings...
True, the proposed solution may have jumped to replacement a bit fast, but with the description of the particulate, not many other things it could be! Unfortunate... I guess and oil change and filter inspection prior to purchase would have saved the reader some $... a shame, but sounds like someone ran the car low on oil or with other issues...
When I read the answer I was stunned that the 996 tech chair provided such a decisive and expensive opinion based on a description of shaved metal in an oil filter. He might be right... but concluding that the only solution is a very expensive total engine replacement without having conducted a hands-on inspection seemed extreme.
A better answer would have been a description of the possible (even if it is probable) situation and an urgent suggestion to take the car to a qualified mechanic for inspection.
I have seen recommendations now, that during the PPI process, you pull the oil filter and dissect. Easy to do, and then just top off the oil level with about 1 quart. If you see metal in the filter, you may want to punt.
That is a good idea as long as a small bit of metal is not relatively normal.
Which reminds me that I meant to have a magnetic drain plug installed during my last oil change... any good sources and/or experience?
Chances are high that's aluminum that's gone through the oil pumps (scavage then high pressure). The teeth will flatten out the aluminum into pieces of foil like particles.
Unlikely to be bearing material absence any clunking/knocking noises. Thus the metal is just the normal shedding of aluminum that occurs with decreasing frequency as an engine ages (and remains undisturbed, as in no tear down for any reason).
A quality oil pressure test though would not go amiss just to be sure. If oil pressure lower than normal that's cause to suspect possibly bearing wear.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Whats a normal oil pressure for a 996? Mine when it warms up gets to about 2bar and when its really hot out and running for a long time, it gets close to 1bar at idle.
Metal debris, sometimes rather large, is quite common in a new engine. New (internal) engine parts shed metal and any machining swarf left in the engine from manufacturing works its way to the sump or sometimes even makes its way through the high pressure oil pump.
Since these engines have scavage pumps -- in the heads and one in the block -- quite a bit of the debris will pass through one possibly two scavage pumps and then be fine enough to pass through the high pressure pump.
Check a new engine's oil filter housing oil if you don't believe me. Or I can (re) post a pic of my 08 Cayman S and its oil filter oil metal content at around 750 miles.
And any engine that has been opened up will tend to shed stuff though depending upon what it was opened up for the amount can be light -- hardly noticable -- to quite heavy almost as heavy as a new engine.
Sincerely,
Macster.
