Blown motor and aftermarket warranty

I've been laying low for a couple weeks. Blew the motor on my '99 and was working it out with an aftermarket warranty outfit. PM me and I'll give you their name. Several weeks ago Dell posted a question about a snapped timing chain. That was at my request. I was keeping my name out of it. What happened: The prevailing theory is that one of my intermediate shafts let go. That released a timing chain which turned the inside of the motor into metal confetti. It also punched a hole thru the motor's water jacket, and all the way thru the case. Coolant got into a cylinder and hydrostatic lock snapped a connecting rod. Coolant also sprayed past an exhaust valve and blew out a catalytic conv. My car has under 50k mi. It has never had a mechanical over-rev, at least since I bought it. It's very unlikely that it's previous owner ever tracked it. The early negotiations with the warranty co. were worrisome. They were completely unwilling to communicate with me in writing in any way. So their outrageous attempts to twist the Queen's English on various contract terms went unrecorded. I spent a week anxious that maybe my warranty contract was just a scam. But in the end, reason prevailed and they payed for all of a refurb motor and most of the associated labor. The refurb motor itself cost $9+k. I'm staying lean on details out of newfound awareness of privacy concerns. A warranty contract clause that applied only to my state saved my ***. My perception was that the warranty company shorted me around $1800 but the dealer says I did pretty well, based on their experience. After this experience, I would recommend aftermarket warranties. Further, I would be certain to buy (as I did) the more expensive exclusionary type that covers everything except that which is explicity excluded. And I would read the fine print and have them answer some critical questions in writing. Unfortunately, you have to go thru an experience like this to know what to ask. The helpful guy that sells you the policy will be replaced by a black-hearted word-twisting call center SOB when your car fails. And then it will be the fine print that makes or breaks you. This effort also brought home how casual I'd become about allowing personal info to be on the Internet. I spent some time removing almost every post I'd ever made on a number of Porsche forums. My last name had been part of my username. The warranty excluded "racing or competitive driving". I've never raced, nor have I driven "competitively", as long as it's defined reasonably. My definition of a "competitive" event requires a winner and a loser, and a measuring device like a clock or a tape measure. So if there's no winner and no measuring, it ain't competitive. But the other party's lawyers aren't paid to be reasonable, they're paid to take you to arbitration and make the whole process such a hassle that you go away. You absolutely cannot hope to defend yourself solely on a reasonable interpretation of English. And that's really important to understand in our enthusiast world of a man's word is his bond. They will point to a phrase in the contract and say "that means you have to pay". And the phrase clearly says nothing of the sort. It can be like debating with a 5yr old. If they can Google your name and come up with references to you being on the track, you're going to be in the hurt-locker. They don't have to be right. Their arguement doesn't have to be legit. It only has to give them a pretext to take the claim to arbitration. And there it will languish until it goes before some judge that sees no distinction between a DE and NASCAR.

Ranger, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can just imagine that it was pretty miserable from what you described. It is nice to think that in a perfect world, everyone you deal with in a business transaction would be honorable and stand by their word.....unfortunately this is not the case. I'm glad that you recovered most of the cost of the engine replacement. It's pretty sad that you had to go through and probably delete any reference that you made to preformance driving or track events. Thanks for sharing the experience with the rest of us.

Thanks for posting your experience. Insurance/warranty companies love to take your money, but when its their time to pay up, it always becames a hassle. How long did it take them to pay from the time you reported the claim? Once your warranty expires do they give you an opportunity to renew? Glad you have been able to recupe most of your damages.

Really appreciate you coming out like this and sharing with us your candid thoughts under not-so-great circumstances. I actually bought my aftermarket warranty through my Porsche dealer so that I have at least a face and an office I can run to and "engage" should anything happen that warrants a significant payout relative to the cost of the warranty. I did go for the exclusionary coverage, but didn't go through the fine print to which next time I shall thanks to your good advice. Good luck with it.

It took the warrant co. <2 weeks to decide to pay for the motor. They paid their share a week after the work was complete. Much of that <2 weeks were consumed by wrangling over the language of the warrant contract. All in all it was not a miserable event. Getting the car home was a significant challenge, but there's few hurdles that a good credit card can't overcome. I was so worried that the warranty company was going to entirely punk me, that ultimately paying <1/4 of the total bill had me celebrating. Aside from all of the hassle and anxeity, if you paid $3800 for a new motor, clutch and cat, would it be a bad thing? It might not be a net gain, but if it's a net loss, it's a small one. I don't know about renewal. They might not perceive me as their favorite customer.

How much did the warranty cost?

I've seen aftermarket and manufacturers use the internet against folks at 1/4 mile tracks and from license plate shots to match screen names to folks they warranty. Also, I've seen on this board how many folks create new screen names to post about their engine blowing. It seems to me that many people just don't get it so they beat up the guy like "internet gansters" do until it happens to them. I'm glad it all worked out for you. Are you keeping the Porsche?

Sorry that you had such a bad experience. It's a pity that we're not allowed to use the car for the things that it was designed to do for fear of having our warrenties voided. Wear and tear on the car was the reason that I made the decision not to track my car, your experience just reinforces that decision.

A couple of additional issues have come out of PM's. Make no mistake, my impression of the aftermarket warranty outfit is fairly favorable. The process was not easy, but I've heard horror stories from others re. warranty claims against other aftermarket warranty outfits. In fact, my story is perhaps more positive then any other I've read. And note that the Porsche dealer said that based on their experience, I'd done quite well. If you have an aftermarket warranty, or are considering such, here's some things you might do. Get answers to these issues in writing. Negotiate with them if you don't like their answers. Alternately, an arguement could be made that it behooves you to allow some of the ideas and terms to remain ambiguous. In court, ambiguiety is traditionally held against the drafter of the document. So forcing them to precisely define something doesn't necessarily work in your favor. 1. Look for a sentance about "authorizing" teardown to determine scope of damage. Who pays for this? Who decides it's necessary? What if the warranty company wants you to pay for teardown but PCNA says that teardown is a needless expense? 2. Look for a sentance that discusses how many hours of labor they will pay for, and at what labor rate. Who determines this? Based on what? Don't let them get away with some ambiguous word like "reasonable". You want it to say "reasonable as defined by PCNA". 3. Be sure to read the State specific clauses that are probably in the back of the contract. 4. "Normal Service" like brake pads, clutches and exhaust systems aren't covered. But what if your an engine failure dynamites your clutch? What if a timing chain failure allows a piston to blow a valve thru your cat? Those are clearly not "service" related failures. These guys are only friendly when you are paying them. Once you have a claim with them, it's waaaayyy to late to work these thing out. In writing, of course.

If I were ever looking to get an aftermarket warranty I would certainly print out this thread for future reference. Good job my friend, and thank you for taking the time to post it.

Thanks for sharing your story, and sorry to hear of your aggravation, it is good to hear that at least the outcome is mostly positive (and you get a new remanuf motor to boot). There are some very good/interesting points here.

Ranger: Really good information for those of us out there who don't have a warranty and are considering getting one. Your points are relevant and very informative. I hadn't given any thought to the prospect of a warranty company going out on the internet to Google your name to see if you've made any mention in any forum about racing or competing with your car; or even perhaps your "mindset" about how you drive.....very interesting slant on the methodology the insurance company might use to discredit your claim and remove or reduce their liability. I use my actual name in forums...always have....and I can see how that little fact might serve to reduce what you thought was your expectation of privacy. Never thought of it in this light.....interesting. Others should take heed. I certainly will. I was thinking of looking for a warranty company, and will now be armed with a little more good information. I can also see how you have to be careful what you say while the assessment process with the warranty folks is ongoing.

The warranty cost ~$2800. Another issue that came out of the warranty is aftermarket bolt-ons. Those can certainly be an issue. It's important to understand that this is not about logic or common sense, it's about not giving the word-distorting lawyers anything that might tempt them to drag you into the certain nightmare of arbitration. The warranty has affected my choices with what to modify and where to source it. When I wanted to upgrade the suspension I went with ROW M030, because I figured that the after market warranty company would have trouble holding that against me. I also have a B&M SSK, but I think they make the Porsche OEM SSK too, so they're likely hard to tell apart. But if I'd already done mods and I was contemplating an aftermarket warranty, I'd require that they state in writing that my mods don't impact the warranty. There is a Fed aftermarket mod warranty act called Magnusson-Moss that might play here. Or M-M may only apply to OEM warranties.

First off, I'm very sorry for what you've been through and I hope that things work out for you going forward. Speaking for myself - and just myself - I have to say that it all just doesn't seem worth it. The warranty ends up costing a quarter of what a new motor would cost (surely our odds are better than 1:4), you then have to be paranoid about what you put on the car, how you drive it and where you talk about it publicly, and if the warranty comes into play you still have some grief and expense to deal with in the process. Me, I'd rather 'self insure'. If owning a Porsche can't be fun, I just don't see the point. And if you would be so financially screwed by an engine failure that you're willing to pay 25% of the cost of it forward, then this particular car might not be a great choice. I can see the economics of it if you depend on a vehicle for your living, like a contractor with a pickup truck. But not for a toy. Just my .02, YMMV, all that. Again, good luck. I hope you're back on the road and enjoying yourself soon.

BruceP: Your logic has merit....because I've been tossing around the do it/don't do it decision making process.....One has to consider that the insurance companies would NEVER insure all you folks out there unless they could be guaranteed of a profit. That means that there are a LOT of Porsches insured with aftermarket warranties that never have anything go wrong....therefore the profit equation remains in the black. The minute the profit equation went into the red, they'd shut down the aftermarket insurance program and only deal with the grandfathered folks until attrition eventually killed off the whole program. That means to me....that I can make the same sort of "bet" that my car will not grenade and have the statistics stacked in my favor. Like Bruce said....by buying into the warranty program, you're already about 25% of the way into a rebuilt motor....with the statistics still on your side. You also have to factor in how many folks who have bought these warranties have been DENIED for just the sorts of reasons or excuses that we've seen....like looking through the Internet forums for "evidence" of your driving habits. An adjuster's first obligation is to the company who hired him...and he's paid to figure out ways to DENY your claim and save the company money. In some cases, the denials are warranted, because some of the folks out there use a warranty as a carte blanc reason to beat the crap out of a car knowing that if they blow the engine it's "insured". That creates an atmosphere of mistrust on the part of the insurance companies because they are fully aware that a certain percentage of the claims are the result of flat out abuse. But back to Bruce's original thought....self-insured folks. Sure I have moments of anxiety about intermix, a failed intermediate shaft, or cracked heads....and sure I alert to any strange vibration, unusual coolant smell, or sudden unexplained surging of the engine....but at some point, we've just got to realize that these are great cars, we bought them because they are in fact a PORSCHE. We've just got to go drive them and enjoy the reason we bought them in the first place. I've put aside $12K as my "insurance policy"....and I'm betting (just like the insurance companies) that I'll be a member of the 90-95% of Porsche owners who won't have to use it.

Bruce, you make valid points. But...... Insurance and warranties are always a gamble. I bought my car to go have fun with it, not to baby it. I figured that there was a reasonable chance that I'd have $2800 worth of issues in 4 years (at which point the car would be 12yrs old). Heck, I figure a couple AC components alone would have me bumping into $2800. What I bought was peace of mind. And you're right, I bought some hassles too. For me it has worked out, but for most folks it probably does not work out. If aftermarket warranties weren't profitable, they wouldn't exist. Years ago I bought an aftermarket warranty on a Toyota. I figured that the AC would never last. I lost that bet.

Damn. I took the bet that it WOULD last. Now I have a highlander, about 8k miles out of warranty with not a bit of cold air coming out of the vents.

I actually always thought of insurance as a fee you can pay to avoid gambling. It's life that's the gamble. I think to buy an aftermarket warranty with your eyes open, you need to ask yourself if it's worth the money for the financial safety and predictability it buys you, not whether you're going to 'win' or 'lose'. If safety and predictability are worth two or three grand to you, then the warranty is a bargain, and for some people that would be true. For me, I would HATE to buy a new motor, but I could afford it. So, for me, that makes a warranty a waste of money.

Great info from the OP. Nice write up. I too had the same decision when I first bought my 99, and I opted not to get the warranty. Turns out it was a good decision (so I thought at the time), because 2 of the companies that had given me quotes went belly-up. I thought to myself, "I just saved $3,000 bucks. Smart me." But then when I did need an engine replacement, it hurt. My father told me that there is a difference between being able to BUY something, and being able to AFFORD something. For me, being able to afford the engine replacement didn't mean that I had to like it - in fact, PCNA's callous attitude about the whole thing made me even more mad (my car had 54K miles). What's my point? 1. I am glad that the warranty company poined up for your replacement. Good for you for fighting them. 2. If I were buying a 99 today, even if it had a replacement motor, I would buy the warranty. When the car costs $20K-25K, it REALLY makes sense. 3. Porsche should be doing more to help owners with this problem just like BMW did. Hell, Microsoft just lost $1BB replacing X-box's and extending warranties. Now wouldn't that make us all feel a little better if PCNA would just say, "We know there are problems and we love our owners, so here is a bone for your trouble."

A wise man. Pretty cool little aphorism, which I think I might steal, if you don't mind.

This has been a great discussion....with good input from both sides....but I too have to agree with what Joe'dad told him. The fact remains that with what we've already got into these cars (focused upon the 3.4L), we're more or less locked into having the engines either repaired or replaced. You'd be hard pressed to get anywhere what it might be worth with a blown engine. I'm just not convinced that the percentage of blown engines happens to be worth the $3,000 I'd spend betting that it's going to happen. Bruce and I happen to think one way...but I realize that there are a lot of folks out there who need that peace of mind. I find it curious that I never have given even the slightest thought to the durability or longevity of my 01 Dodge dually diesel sitting in the driveway. I only paid $20K for it and I pull a 14K pound fifth wheel with it all over the place. Here I sit with a $40K Porsche pondering over it's potential frailties like it's a porcelain prima donna. We just need to drive these cars and enjoy them and quit worrying about the what-if.

Bingo! I agree. Don't buy a Porsche if you cannot afford to deal with the worst that it has to throw at you. Amen.

Nicely said, Bruce.

I will offer my own expereince as a foil. Warranty Direct has been great for me. Just this week completely covered leaking valve covers. Have also covered RMS, cab top motors (x2) and a bunch of other stuff. Never a problem. My dealer calls them and they approve the work on the spot. Every time and at this point I am well past break even.

Ouch! Not much of an endorsement for Porsche though. Sometimes I wonder why I read this forum. I have had 7 Porsches over the years racking up lots of miles and never had a problem. Never thought I needed to really worry until I started reading this forum. I have a '99 with 86,000 miles on it and it has been basically trouble free since I got it at 40,000. My warranty runs out at the end of January. My original thought was to keep the car past warranty, but after reading all of these tales of woe, it makes me wonder. As I read through here, it is difficult to guage just how big a problem it is. Are we reading about a very small percentage of problems or are we really driving ticking time bombs? I just wish there was some way to definitively know.

Warranty companies are in business to make money. The only way they do that is by limiting the money that they pay out. As this thread demonstrates, they will do what they can to avoid paying the claim. I've had to refer friends to colleauges of mine to resolve these issues through litigation. I've also represented dealerships and finance companies where they get sued because the warranty company isn't doing what they should be doing, i.e. paying for the repair. Furthermore, aftermarket warranties are a profit center for the dealerships. They get, generally, about half of the 'cost' you pay for the warranty just by shuffling the paper through to the warranty company. More frightening is the very real possibilty that the warranty company will evaporate before you actually make the claim. Then you're left with a worthless piece of paper to go after a warranty company that has/had no assets so even if you get a judgment, there is nothing to collect on. In effect, you're betting that a) you will need to make a claim in excess of the payment, b) that the company will be around to deal with the claim, and c) that you will actually get them to pay for the repair. Save your money and invest it. You're going to be much better off.

Steal away - use it in good health. He told me that story when his buddy brought over his new Ferrari he bought since his Rolls Royce was in the shop so much. That was probably around 1982. I asked my dad, "how come we cannot have a Ferrari?" He said, "I could buy one, but there is a difference between being able to buy something and being able to afford something." He was right, because about 5 years ago - I loaned my dad's same friend some money. He never learned that lesson.