Denied warranty claim

Anyone know of a warranty claim that was denied based on the car being driven on a track? Anyone know of a claim that was initially denied but later reversed? If so, how? Go to another dealer? Go up the ladder from the dealer to PCNA???

here's an idea...Don't tell your dealer you track your car

Yeah, but I have a buddy who's car had a lot of evidence that it had been tracked when it went to the dealer. My buddy never brought it up, but the dealer quickly concluded that the car had been tracked.

yes Reggie, Remember last November when my engine went? It took a month of my mechanic arguing with the warranty company before they bought me a new engine. They claimed since I didn't have a plate on it and the tires showed wear that would take place on a track, that it had been on a track. It was a third party warranty though so I have no clue with PCNA. I try to stay far away from dealerships. I like your new picture. Is this the car that went up in smoke right in front of me on the front straight?

I've heard of it happening several many times. What is "your buddy" hoping to have covered under warranty?

sorry, I'm a bit slow but... always go to independent shops? Trying to get a good system down for the 3rd party warranty

I went to the dealership once after I bought my car, they tried pulling the whole, you need new brakes thing, which most people fall for. I found a better mechanic that is a few blocks away and has taken care of me ever since, no I see no point of going to a dealership. As far as one being better for your warranty? That really depends on the situation I guess.

you know its funny you say they deny it based on the idea that the car was tracked, when I was buying my Boxster the salesguy was so adamant about how much the cars should be driven at the track, etc. etc. Sounds like dealer/manufacturer BS. They should not market their cars as being so close to their racing brethren... I think if it were me, I would push them to prove definitively that the car was tracked, ie evidence... video, etc, otherwise perhaps driver is safety conscious, or a modaholic that wants to look sporty. That is all depending on the nature of the work that needs to be done.

I bet if they told potential buyers that driving the car on the track would void many parts of the warranty they may not make their quotas so easily...

you know its funny you say they deny it based on the idea that the car was tracked, when I was buying my Boxster the salesguy was so adamant about how much the cars should be driven at the track, etc. etc. Sounds like dealer/manufacturer BS. Keep in mind that the Dealership doesn't have to pay for the repair, so the sales guy will say anything that he feels will help seal the deal. Racing puts severe stress on an engine, brakes, and suspension. So it's not unreasonable to expect that these parts will fail long before the warranty expires. As I understand it however, from a legal perspetive the burden of proof is on the warranty company to prove that you were actually participating in track events. So the average Joe participating in DE events should be a tough challenge for any warranty company denying coverage, absent pictures or other hard evidence supporting their position. Of course another related issue is Insurance coverage for these events. I'm insured with GEICO and a couple of days ago, my son bought his own car so I removed him from my coverage. For some reason during my conversation with the GEICO rep, the subject of racing came up, which was bizarre since my son bought a Toyota Corolla. The agent warned me that my son's Insurance coverage would be invalidated if he damaged his car while racing at a dragstrip or any other form of racing at a track. Since my son isn't about to race his Corolla, I didn't pursue the definition of "any other form of racing at a track", but of course DE flashed through my mind. Curiously enough this subject was never broached when I bought my Porsche a little over a month ago. Maybe my age had something to do with it.

Keep in mind some of the piddly crap that happens to the car is usually not related to tracking the vehicles. That being said, transmission damage, engine damage, ANY over revs in the upper ranges...Porsche will deny the warranty claim. Burden of proof is shown enough in the condition of the part in question. If the dealership covers, lets say, a transmission rebuild or replace under warranty.. we have essentially paid for your repair until repair information is submitted and approved. So, in the transmission, if we work on it and you are a gear grinder, we return the warranty parts and Porsche determines that Johnny racecar driver isn't shifting properly...then we get stuck with the bill...and money is lost, and thus begins the trickle down of why we covered something under warranty that was clearly unrelated. If you dealer is being an a-hole because you went racing and now your sunroof doesn't work, then it is time to find a new dealer... Also, don't count out dealership personnel for working on your car when out of warranty. I have fixed plenty of mom and pops repairs because they are not as knowledgeable as some factory trained personnel. The best thing to do with something like that is meet the tech working on the car ask him/her some questions and be your own judge....

Burden of proof is shown enough in the condition of the part in question I'm far from an expert on this matter and I'm not a lawyer, but I do have one experience to relate. A friend of mine who is a lawyer had a warranty claim denied by Audi. The claim was denied by Audi because they alleged that the failed part was caused by "driver abuse", and most likely by racing. My friend sued Audi and the Delership and eventually prevailed, although it was a long process that took almost a year to resolve. Because of this experience the Dealer in question will honor all warranty claims, at least that was their policy three years ago when this matter was resolved. Apparently the time and cost of fighting this warranty denial was far in excess of what the repair cost was. My suspicion is that most automobile manufacturers believe that the vast majority of denied warranty claims will not be challenged by the average guy, since the time and expense of the challenge far exceeds that of the repair, and the risk is that you could lose your case and be saddled with not only the costs of the repair but also the costs of hiring a lawyer and of course the amount of time all of this takes to get resolved. Fortunately my warranty experiences have all been positive, I believe in no small part due to the great relationship that I have with a local Porsche Dealer. I would suspect that owners like me that have all of their maintenanvce work performed by the Dealer are treated differently than those who just show up when there is a warranty issue.

It is very difficult to determine whether the dealer acted appropriately without knowing the nature of the damage and warranty work requested.

When I had my new engine installed, I specifically asked whether tracking the car would void the warranty. I was "told", that the only exclusions are damage caused by overrevs or overheating. Stefan

My region PCA encourages people to take their cars to DEs and AutoX events.. actually our local Porsche dealer brings Brand new cars to these events to show and capture new buyers... so my question is how can they void warranty if they encourage people to do these events?..there is a big diference between "racing the car" and doing a couple of DEs or AutoXs a year.. they shouldn't deny warranty unless the car was obviously abused....

PCA (the organization) is a completely separate entity than PCNA (the company) or Porsche AG. So legally speaking Porsche (the company, or at least their legal dept.) could care less what PCA encourages you to do.

Hmmm... I wonder if this is why so many Porsche dealers offer "free" tech inspection before you participate in any track event. It allows them to establish a record of which of their customers track or auto-x their cars, and approximately when the track days take place. I think I am going to start going to an independent for all tech inspections.

JC3D, I don't want to go into the details of my buddy's problem on this public forum as the issue is still unresolved. I'll just say "you're warm". I sent you an e-mail with details.

You have now posted this in every forum here - but you still haven't answered my question -- "And the warranty claim was for what problem?". For instance - If the car was overreved while to spun the car on the track and there are stage 2 overrevs recorded -- then I think the dealer has a right to deny a warranty claim. On the other hand if his radio just crapped out then that could not be related. See my point? without the problem that the caused the denied warranty - no one can answer this question.

Loren, The claim is related to a failed 2nd gear synchro that "crunches" when the car is cold. The problem goes away when the car reaches operating temps. The dealer concluded that the car had been tracked based on the mods (6 pt harness, etc.) and denied the claim. My buddy is trying to decide his best course of action.... go to another dealer that's known for being friendly to owners who track their cars of taking the issue up with PCNA.

I converted my 996 into a race car while it was still under warrantee. I brought it to the dealer in a race trailer with full cage, racing seats, race suspension, numbers, club racing decals, etc. because the coolant reservoir was leaking. They fixed it under warrantee with no questions. A couple weeks later I had a wheel bearing fail so I figured I'd give it a try. I got a quick no and we all had a good laugh. I really don�t think it�s reasonable to expect Porsche to pay for damage caused by the increased stress of track driving such as wheel bearings, bent suspension parts, fried clutches, tweaked engines, busted transmissions, etc. etc. And please don�t say they should be built to take it because not even purpose built race cars are immune to the wear and tear of track life. If you have a problem created by track wear or by a mistake like a missed shift I think you should expect to pay for the fix yourself. Regarding insurance, I tell new DEers and students that you shouldn't put your car on the track unless you can emotionally and financially walk away from it. If you wad your car up at the track and your insurance company covers it, great but you shouldn't count on it. Just my thoughts. Jim

I think it's silly to think Porsche should pay for a synchro on a car that's clearly been tracked. That is an obvious track mistake problem.

I think you need to send your buddy to my shop here in venice if he lives locally.

What mechanic are you using over there? Otto? I've been looking for a good independant mechanic and haven't found one I'm happy with yet.

this VERY same problem has been discussed in depth in 996 Turbo forum.

Hah... this is some BS... how they expect not to track the cars, if that is what they were made for? They advertise everywhere, part street, part track. Who can understand them? If they dont want us to track them, dont make them so trackable!!!! Guys, if anyone need a good and extremely (and I mean it) cheap mechanic in FL, Miami, contact me, you will save millions.... Example: did the whole engine for a friend for 4500..... You cant trust warranties....

Bingo! The only thing I would add is that a claim could be denied due to abuse or misuse whether it occurred on the track or not. Although this is not the case here, if someone came in with trashed synchros 2 months after buying a car it would not matter whether the car was tracked or not. It would be great if the dealer fixed it under warranty, but I could understand them denying the claim as well. Warranties are not designed to cover normal wear and tear, abuse, or misuse no matter where it occurs. I'm not saying track use is abuse or misuse. Wear and tear can be accelerated by track use. Abuse or misuse can happen on or off the track.

Very true

Yeah, I go to Otto, Been working on my car since I bought it and my instructor every time I go to Willow. His number there is [phone removed], tell him John sent you down there.

My dealer offers free pre-track inspections ;-) Go figure... I think you can make a case that it's a porsche and it's made for such things. Of course it has to be a valid claim, not a wear and tear item that gets worn out fast on track !

Mike: I couldn't agree with you more. I often wonder when I see how varous parts failed on these cars....just how much was a truly failed part due to manufacturing defect or the result of having the security of knowing that if you blew it up, no big deal....there would be a warranty to cover the excesses of your overly aggressive driving habits. Whereas on the one hand I acknowledge that when the salesmen hand you the keys, they're sittin next to you in the passenger seat egging you on so that you can see the power and performance that "PORSCHE" is renowned for..The fact remains they're just salsesmen looking for their cut of the profits from the sale, and the psychology of sales emphasizes performance and style. They could care less if you bend something because after you sign on the dotted line and get either the factory or aftermarket CPO warranty....it's no longer their problem....it's the service manager's problem. He's the guy who has to take on the upset folks and listen to the explanations and excuses....and he's the guy who has to run the car on the computer to see how many category II or worse events the computer shows....and then give you the good/bad news of whether Porsche is/isn't going to cover it. I sometimes wonder what a chart would look like if it could rate the driving style ahd habits of the guys who have a CPO or factory warranty versus those of us who do not. I wont' disagree with the folks who say they bought a "performance car" fully expecting it to perform....but sometimes I wonder just how far the expectations of performance are supposed to go before some sort of threshold or reasonable limit of performance and durability is reached. I would readily admit that my expectations for a GT2 or GT3 would be higher than those for my 99 996....but that shouldn't give me carte blanc approval to go out and beat the crap out of the GT3 until it blows then boo-hoo about it. Expectations need to be responsible and reasonable...however one quantifies the word reasonable.