Affordable entry point to 996 ownership?

Hi, My life's dream has pretty much been to own a porsche turbo for the last 10 years. I'm finally getting closer to a financial position where it would be possible to step into a 996 - especially since the 996 is depreciating a bit with the arrival of the 997. I always wanted the turbo for the ~400+ hp and driving experience. However, I recently learned that there are a couple of supercharger kits out there for the 911 C2/C4/Targa that put them into Turbo territory for ~$10,000. Is a C2 with a SC going to be a more affordable point of entry for me? I know, its not the same as a Turbo but just wondering what people think about going this route. I may be able to get a more pristine example of one of the less expensive 996 models and then just upgrade it over time - interior and exterior also.

Don't do it your engine will blow up!!! JK... WE at Rennlist love to chat about 996 engine catastrophes The turbo has a completely different engine block, same as GT3, etc. So for my 2 cents if you go with a 996 and was worried about price I would keep it pretty stock engine-wise. A low price 996 is about 30-35, while a low price turbo is around 60, if you look at 10 for the kit then possibly another 15 for engine replacement if they screw it up, I would bet my money on the real deal, not to mention the myriad of upgrades the turbo has, such as suspension, brakes, etc. that round out the car to be the devilish driving machine that it is, it would be cost prohibitive to do all of that aftermarket for most people. Anyway, best of luck, in my opinion they are all fun as hell to drive.

1.-i never trust any kits for any car. 2.-do you have a mech/shop you can trust 100%?

It dependes what you call affordable, there are guys who had ferraris before and just got Porsches and they seem to them to be very affordable in comparison. if you want to spend $50k+ go with the turbo, if not get a Carrera and leave her stock.

There is always the option of buying an older Turbo? Or, a nicely modded 951 for 1/3 the price of a C2.

Definitely agree. I'd invest more in the exhaust, handling, and stopping, and not worry about the HP, if you're concerend about keeping it cheap. Porsches have down through history have been under-powered compared to other marques, and they let their strengths rule the day.

You may be able to get to similar stock turbo power levels with a supercharger and probably even improve the torque curve a little (torque should build more rapidly with a SC, while turbo will generally make more peak power). However, I'd recommend you get the turbo out of the box. You can find 996TT's in the high $60's now and with it you are getting a completely engineered package for that power level (brakes, transmission, AWD system, etc.). If you mod the 996, you are moding an engine and software not designed to run w/boost and (IMHO) you are setting yourself up for potential problems.

I should clarify, I already have a ~350hp turbo VW Jetta that I built (and still am working on) myself. So I am not really a stranger to the realm of adding a kit to a car or rebuilding an engine. I'm in my 20's and have lots of time to work on the car, that would be half the point I guess. I would be looking at 70K for a turbo but I'm in Canada so actually much more. It would be more like... 45K for a SC C2 or Targa?

Again....if you are buying a Porsche for HP wars, its a losing battle....Porsche is about the WHOLE package...not HP numbers...So a 996 is not really designed to run 400+ HP...a TT is a different engine designed for that HP....996 rebuild kits are not really readily available...so they replace the engine when things go bad....thats 10-15k....I would say drive a stock 996, and see if its what you want...If you want High HP...a 944 Turbo is a bargain...can be modded, parts are less expensive and readily available.....I have seen people with 400+ HP out of their 944 Turbos....that being said I have a stock engine and have done suspension mods and wheels and audio upgrades, etc....ths is an amazing car and FUN.....take it to the canyons and you will see what Porsche is all about....

As much as you know how to work on cars, YOU can not work on the internals of the engine yourself unless you get all of the tooling from Porsche. You can not duplicate the tooling either unless you have blueprints. Get the TT, S/Cing a 11.3 compression motor is never good.

... the comment about an "affordable price point to ownership" made me smile. With Porsche it's not about the entry pricepoint, it's about the longterm maintenance and upkeep. You have to be able to pay to play. There's no such thing as an inexpensive Porsche. Many get into ownership without realizing the potential for rapid escalation of expenses. If you cannot afford to drop a couple of thousand for a dealer visit, then maybe a Porsche is not for you.

Sadly I own a VW so I am used to dropping a thousand on a dealership visit haha. Jokes aside, the whole "pay to play" argument has in my experience often (but not always) been the refuge of those who simply need to justify that they paid. I believe that recently there is becomming a pathway to inexpensive porsche ownership, starting with used porsches like the boxter and 996 C2. These cars were made and sold in mass quantity (compared to how things used to be) and are fairly reliable and affordable due to depreciation. You might not see it as being "worth it" yet, but eventually it will be "worth it". I'm not at all interested in a horsepower war by the way, if I was I wouldn't be interested in a porsche.

Great...buy one, dont worry about HP and enjoy one of the greatest sports cars made....

a few thosand is not out of the ordinary on a pcar

And more catastrophic failures can be more like 5-10k....

as with any car, loose an engine or trans in your, gm or honda or anything your going to be out 6-8k for a new one installed at the dealer

Love the p-car for what it is.... but like everyone says.... buy he newest you can afford and if that's in the striking distance of a tt do it..... it's a whole different world....

Well, when you clarify it that way I'd say go for it! There are two SC kits available for the 996 and opinions vary on which is the superior product. There are several on this board and 6speed that have the kits on their cars. If you perform a search or post a new Supercharger thread I am sure you'll get a lot of responses from those that have the kits. Good Luck!!

I did a quick search. Here are a few threads on the subject https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=Supercharge

I'm sure you care about resale as cost is important to you. You pay more upfront for a Turbo, but it always has great resale value due to its collectible/classic/rare status. Heavily modding a stock car leaves you with less upfront cost, but you now have a car that's worth less than you paid and almost worthless to resell. Who in their right mind would buy a heavily modded, supercharged, etc car from you when there are so many non-molested cars available for great prices? The car would be very very hard to sell without taking a HUGE loss. The Turbo, on the other hand, would be easy to sell anytime you needed to. You may think you don't care about resale, but you never know when you will need the cash for a house, school, kids, etc. Money spent on lots of mods is money mostly gone forever. Money on a Turbo car is equity preserved. I'm sure you are well aware of this considering your VW, but there are lots of kids willing/looking to buy super tricked-out VW's for $20k and under, but the people buying Porsches are not the same - they DO NOT want to buy someone else's project. Another great car to SC is the NSX - many people have done it and the engines can handle it great from what I've read. An NSX with SC would be much much easier to sell than a 996, as the NSX community accepts that mod more readily. The 996 crowd does not. The cost of buying the NSX is the same or less than the 996, and long-term ownership costs would be much less.

You're joking right? The kind of modifcations around here are sought after. We're taking a car and mostly adding OEM equipment to it. Please explain to me how adding OEM equipment (or better) decreases the value, as I've nver met anyone with that perspective.

I wouldnt buy a heavily modded porsche, you dont know who did the work, what work they did or how the car was treated. modded cars are beaten, mine is

My calculus... c4 based car...not cheap. SC...may need a wing for air/breathing...10-14k...not cheap m96 engine issues.....not a "racing engine" per ce...check rms/engine threads....me, I would never feel good in one of these blown. Now, a 993 c4 or c4s with a sc is more likely to handle the load in my opinion...just my opinion. But, the 996 has better day to day driving features.... TT. Stock brakes, suspension, power awesome. Better block priceless. My mental thoughts of having a "turbo"....well, lets say I grew up with them in posters. I know silly...but it was my choice and I made it. The TT is underpriced now..it will likely go up a bit and hold at 70-75k for the next few years..especially as more people who cannot keep them up get them, trash them, and lower the net number around to buy. That is a phenomenon that the 993 probably did not have to see due to rarity. JB

I guess it all depends on your perspective of "heavily modded". I'm personalizing my car, but I certainly don't beat it - it is treated with TLC. I guess the lesson is that there is no fixed rule and you have to treat cars on a case by case basis. ...but don't buy a car from Firehawk.

if you want to play you have to pay, things break tires wear ect ect.

Do your comments hold true on modded turbos? I'm looking at a 996TT with upgraded turbos, headers, exhaust, cats, clutch, chip, PSS9s, and some Techart bits. 22k miles. When I sell, will these mods hurt me?

not as much on turbos. it wont hurt your resale, modign just doesnt tend to add value to a car

Many buyers will prefer a stock Turbo over modded (non-factory options) for various reasons, some of which firehawk mentioned. So, when you go to sell a heavily modded car, there will be fewer potential buyers, as those who require stock will not be interested in your car. If you have plenty of time, you may be able to sell it for what you want out of it, but generally, fewer potential buyers = lesser demand = lower value.

Oh, to be so young... and to not yet know how remarks like that get fate's immediate and most diabolical attention. That's the kind of thinking that got me into marriage number two.

The TT is a brute stock.....on the track, more is more, but in my day to day with my TT....it is a brute. If you get porsche options (like a short shift), not a big deal. If you blow it to 700hp, make it harder to drive with a lightweight flywheel, etc....to me, it is actually worth less. To me. I am probably Joe Average owner #2 type. I avoided modded TT's because with a mod comes an owner pushing the car.....basically, if you plan to mod a car, don't plan to get nearly as much for it. Said another way, watch a Barrett Jackson auction for just about any car from Gullwing SL to Chevelle big block. Stock with paper is way more valuable than any mod. Me, My mods will be tires and wheels....from my perspective, the tires change the way the car drives more than any other piece of equipment and they have the advantage of being easy to change..... I do plan to put an ipod in, but I also plan to do it in such a way as to be fully reversable to stock....like putting a switch in for the CD changer to be back on line, etc. It might cost me $100 more at the installer, but that is to preserve the "stock" option. I suspect adding an RCA input or such will not hurt value too much, but you never know.... I had a 993 C4S. The turbo is in another league....stock, it is more car than any person could need on the street (in the USA) IMHO. If I raced, I might mod. But then, one has to consider a raced car as a tool....not an investment to me.... Like I said, the turbo is a brute. If you plan to mod, my advice is test a TT first......way more wise long term IMHO. What happens when the SC company goes out of business? Just my opinion. Best. JB

Ok, so here's the deal. The car I'm looking at is already modded. And the work was done by a reputable local shop who's been around for 15 years. I drove it and it's a monster. 700 hp like you said. It's incredible. Will I use the hp every day? No way. But I can imagine playing with it now and then. The mods cost the current owner about $60k. If I bought a used stock TT, I'd have to spend that same money to get the car to the same place. If I enjoy the added performance, and the car won't lose any value by having the mods, then it makes sense to me to get the mods for free now. The question remains, will the mods hurt me when I go to sell? I think you're saying yes.

did they hurt the guy selling to you ?

Well that depends. If I buy the car for close to bluebook, then they didn't hurt him. He doesn't expect to recover any money on the mods, but he doesn't want to sell for under bluebook either. The real question is, if I don't buy the car, will someone else? Or will he be stuck with it. He says he has another offer, but just one. I have no idea how well he's "marketing" the car though. I'm asking you guys because I have no experience with this. I've always owned brand new cars, no mods. I don't want to buy the car, then find out that I have to sell it for less than the price of an unmodded car. FWIW, he's asking exactly bluebook which is $80k, and probably slightly above actual market value right now.

if someone is looking for it then they will pay for it, it definalty limits the market for potenal buyers becasue its not what most people look for so you may have to sit on it longer. IF its a quality package installed by a known shop and you have all the maitnace records, resale should not be affected

Still struggling with this. It terrifies me to buy a 700HP turbo with no warranty whatsoever. Plus, I'd have to spend about $8k to get the interior back to grey.

I took your advice and test drove an 05 TTS last weekend. Very sweet car, but nowhere near as fast as the car I'm looking at, and more lag. To be very clear, I'm not at all suggesting that the stock TT isn't a very fast car. It is. But after getting a taste of the modded car, I can't get it out of my head. Another issue is the interior of the car. The seats, door handles, bin covers, steering wheel and main dash cover have all been replaced by Gemballa with red leather. So the interior is now grey and red. Personally, I prefer black, and I would expect the red/grey combo to appeal to a very narrow audience at resale. Am I right? BTW, I'd post pics, but I have too few posts.

Don't sell out on your dreams. You might only have this one chance... -td

why dont you get a nice stock 996TT S , get familiar with her and then slowly do all the mods you want??

That would be a good idea if I could afford that. The appealing thing about the pre-modded car is that I basically get all the mods I could ever want for free.

If you have to think about it, you don't want it or you can't afford it. Move on. Personally, I'd jump on a modded car no problem.