50-100% RMS Failure?

I read in the September issue of Excellence that RMS failures are possibly higher than imagined. A quote from Excellence Porsche Market Update Boxter and 996: "But the number one leak for all 996's and Boxsters continues to be rear main seal(RMS). Depending on who you ask the problem seems to affect between 50 and 100% of the cars." I remeber a guy trying to make a case for a class action suit or a demanded recall through Porsche on this forum a few years back. If these numbers can be believed how can Porsche not do a recall?

It's the 300 lbs gorilla in the room... No Porsche magazine wants to take it on, and risk having their ad revenue cut No dealership will take it on If the Porsche community take it on, and win, there goes your resale value down the pan! I did hear of one German newspaper taking up the fight - but that's gone very quiet of late. Chris.

Both the 996 cars I've owned had RMS failures. That's 100 percent ;-) I think just about everyone I've talked to who owns a 996 has gone through it. Which is not to say that everyone who owns a 993 hasn't had a failed AC fan resistor, or everyone who owns a 911SC hasn't dealt with at least one broken head stud, and so forth. Every 911 has it's weak points. The RMS is it for the 996.

Perhaps if we, as a group 'expect more' porsche will 'give us more!'

I think it's pathetic. My Porsche quality perception is shattered now that I've had a tranny and 3.4 engine fail on my 99 996 and there seems little point in upgrading and the 3.6s have the same problem. I don't mind them breaking, the problem is you can't fix em without a complete very expensive replacement.

What's to prevent a dealer from getting your car on a lift and saying you need to have your RMS replaced? If it's under warranty who's going to say no? Revenue for the dealer because Porsche pays them for work under warranty... no conspiracy theory, I'm just saying.

This may be a bit OT but my understanding is although RMS is a oil leak, it's doesnt affect the reliability of the car correct? I guess as long as you keep on top of the oil levels?

But don't you think you're paying for all that FREE warranty work every time you buy Porsche from the dealer, or have any other non warranty work done... Porsche have to recover their costs somewhere - and that get's reflected in the prices we all end up paying. Chris.

Correct - there is a very very small chance you could get oil contamination on the clutch, but you rarely see that. It's really a confidence issue, and an oil on my garage floor issue, and a need to keep an eye on the oil level issue. People like to believe their Porsches should be bullet proof, and when they are proved to be just as prone to mechanical issues as other brands, people loose faith. RMS is often associated with ' the sky is falling ' type posts on forums. Realistically, people live with RMS for tens of thousands of miles, use an oil tray in their garage, and top up their oil when needed, and never have it get any worse. Chris.

My car is CPO and my independent mentioned a slightly leaking cam cover. The dealer replaced both sides AND the RMS. I saw no oil on the garage floor....so I was thinking was Riad was saying...easy money for the dealer from Porsche.

I've had my car for 4+ years now. 45K+ miles. City driving in L.A. + track now and again. Supercharger ... No RMS

2 months and 2 rms

Yep and my buddies 98 Boxster had 98k miles on it before he had RMS issues - there's no simple equation to work out if/when it may happen. It's called real life! Chris.

no doubt you could just put a drip pan under the car and top off more freuqently but damn! Is this the best that Porsche can do? RMS leaks are from a design flaw which has, as yet, not been addressed rather patched by Porsche! A design flaw which is quite wide spread. Imagine if Porsche advertised..."Porsche there is no substitute and oh by the way 50% of you will have oil leaking on your garage floor" The cars would not sell at all!!! and then they would fix the problem for real!

At 59,103Miles The clutch 1 996-116-911-02 repair kit $575, they Flywheel Assembly [phone removed]-02 $850.00, and the OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 was replaced. Now at 74,500 miles, the rms is leaking again. That is only 15k Miles. Is this the latest oil seal fix? OIL SEAL 999-113-490-40 or is there an improved one out there? Work was done August 30 Year 2004.

I'm not defending Porsche in any way - and they have swapped out many engines under warranty to 'fix' the RMS issues.. However, do you think there are many car manufacturers out there that would recall all cars because there was a chance that there would be an oil leak from a seal at some point in it's life...? Just playing devils advocate... Chris.

Did a porsche dealer do it. 2 year warranty on the one I just had done Call your dealer and get it into the shop before Aug 30

This seems to be a common issue..... Clutch work done - RMS replaced at the same time Main shaft is not trued-up, and takes about 10-12k miles to wear the seal to the point you see the RMS leak. This is almost always due to the tech not paying enough attention to the centering of that shaft - and any aligment issue is compounded as the shaft is only supported at one end, leaving the other end to float free and osciallate, damaging the RMS over time. (This is the real design issue with Porsche) You should get a 2 Yr warranty from the dealer for any RMS replacement - so you may be covered still? Your 04 seal is not the 'latest' from Porsche - I understand that version 3 came out at the end of 05 I think.... Chris.

Yes the dealer did the work. I just called them. Taking it in on Tuesday.

Make sure they use the latest tool from Porsche to align the shaft and insert the seal - Porsche actually released a new tool to try and ensure they had a higher success rate on fixing these RMS issue at the dealerships. Chris.

Great DIY RMS replacement article HERE Shows what's involved, what the problems are - give everyone here a decent perspective on what RMS is really all about. Interesting to note that the article states - I did not replace my Clutch and Flywheel as they were replaced a few months earlier by the previous owner It's a good bet that the RMS failure was at least helped if not caused by the previous clutch work on this car. Chris.

Exactly my point. Maybe they can design a retrofit craddle/support to hold that weight hanging out there in space. bottom line is that it is a deign flaw and a known one. this is not a ford mustang. this is a porsche the top end of the daily driver sports car food chain. porsche can and should do better

I couldn't agree more. Before I got mine, I did much research here and elsewhere on the RMS issue, as that was the first thing that friends warned me of when they hear "Porsche". I just couldn't believe Porsche still, to this day has not solved this problem and is still producing cars with RMS issues!? I would expect more from such a reputable name. Well...so far...I repeat, "so far"... my garage floor has been clean since the C4S has taken over that spot. It's been good for 4 weeks, and counting.

CENTERING WHAT? THE INTERMEDIAT SHAFT BEARING SUPPORT THERE IS ITS A ROUND PART IN A ROUND HOLE. UNLESS YOUR DAMAGING THE SEAL ON INSTALL THEN THERES NOT REALLY ANYTHING TO CENTER. AS FAR AS IT DANGLING IN SPACE THE INTERMEDADE SHAFT IT SUPPORTED ON THE OTHER END AND HAS NO EFFECT ON THE RMS SEAL. THE RMS IS ON THE CRANK COMPLETLY DIFFRENT THEN THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT. HOW MANY UPDATED SEALS HAVE THERE BEEN AND BULLETIONS ABOUT OIL LEAKS, THE CASE BOLTS, ECT. THE NEW 997 SEAL HAS BEEN VERY SUCESSFUL. I HIGHLY RECOMEN HAVING IT INSTALLED THE NEXT TIME YOUR TRANSMISION IS OUT FOR CLUTCH REPLACEMENT (UNLESS YOUR IN WARRENTY IF YOU ARE TAKE IT IN NOW FOR THAT OIL LEAK) TILL THEN KEEP A DRIP PAN UNDER THE CAR

The fact that the shaft is only suported at one end, and has no bearing to support it at the RMS, leads to the issue. Suggest you read the excellent post on RMS replacement HERE Any shaft misalignment can cause the RMS seal to become worn over the next 10-12k miles, and lead to oil leaks. Intermeadiate Main Seals also fail, as here: This gives the same symptoms form the outside, and you really cannot tell until you're in there which seal has gone. Intermeadiate shaft is under tension, and requires centering before seal is attached. Chris.

wow! that was amazing! and i am afraid to change the oil!!

Maybe you are on to something here... never change the oil and it will to get thick to leak out from around RMS or intermediate shaft seal. Leaking problem solved!

Just had my third one done. One at 15K with the CPO (but i wonder if it was actually done), one in the 35K range, and one last week at the 60K. Also put in a new clutch. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

ok now i see where your going with that the crank shaft misaligmnet not the intermediate shaft ill agree with you on the lack of a bearing being a contributing factor,. As far as techs not centering still theres nothing to center when replacing the rms as long as you are using the proper tool. (crank cradle install is where alignment becomes an issue) Intermediate shafts are the same seal you cannot install one not centered you can damage the seals on instalation but once its in and bolted thats that. Im very framiler with the rms replacment and inter shaft seal replacment ive changed a few.......... btw i read the rms article, thats really really really scary how they changed the ims seal, they were on blind luck on that one not bending valves.

May not be RMS. No RMS failure here, but it was in 3 times for an oil leak. IMS all 3 times. First time just seals. Second time seals, outer housing and new shaft. Third time shaft housing, new guides and seals. It is finally fixed. The entire problem was actually caused by the bad guide. Normally the replace the RMS and IMS seals at the same time. If the RMS leaks after the new seals, they check if the crank is out of round. If it is and the car is under warranty, they warranty a new engine. Out of warranty, SOL.

actually during every rms replacemnt they should be checking the crank for alignment, I belive the tolerance is .01 diffrence side to side between the crank and the housing, its not the crank out of round its the cradle not being centered, it usually takes a 3rd oil leak before porsche will autorize and engine

My 2001 Boxster S had a RMS failure, a friend of mine with a 2000 996 and my boss has a 4S also with a RMS failure. That's 3/3 = 100% :-(

I had mine replaced when I did my clutch since it was leaking about a dime size spot, 1 year later no problems with the new seal. Most other people also have had or will have an RMS issue but I am sorry it is really not a big deal. My old Harley leaked too and that was a Porsche designed engine.

Happy update: Brought car in to the dealer. They fixed the problem under my CPO warranty. Here are the most current part numbers. 1 997-101-212-00 Shaft Sealing Ring 8 999-073-092-09 Screw 10x50 6 900-067-131-02 Screw M8X16 4 999-385-004-09 Torx Screw 6x35 3 900-385-093-09 Screw 6 x 20 Happy driving!

Maybe we should turn this into a poll. When I was test driving cars, 3 or the six cars that inspected had an active RMS leak.

If your rms issue was resolved under warranty, the warranty on the new seal is only as long as your remaining warranty period. If you paid for your rms issue out of warranty, you have a 2 year warranty on the work.

Well, I posted a poll and the results aren't looking as bad as this thread would suggest.

I did not have RMS, but getting engine replaced right now. They found metal in the oil filter. Car has 5k miles on it.

Ouch! Not good. I hope that it's under warranty. Do they know where the metal came from?

I don't think so. Any work at the dealer gives you 2 years warranty on it. Regardless of who paid for the work (you, CPO or aftermarket warranty).

It is under warranty. I bought the car in Dec 2005, and it was a leftover brand new car that nobody wanted. I have plenty of warranty. Do not know where or why or anything. There was a repeated misfire on the #4 cylinder and they simply decided to replace the engine. To say I am concerned about the longevity of this vehicle is an understatement.

I can understand your concern. I'd forgotten about your #4 cylinder problem and hadn't connected that to your latest troubles. Well, don't worry, if they're replacing the engine, then you should be like new in no time. Sadly, it just contributes to the "disposible engine" misconception that some might have.

BUT...they will take a sink'n and keep on tick'n Sorry Blk on Blk it seems I keep bringing this up after you post? Good luck with the new motor.

When I brought my car in for the rms work, while talking to the sales man at the lot he mentioned that when they replace engines, the new engines have bigger bearings around the shaft to help keep it true. Not sure how correct he is?

I think he has something around his shaft, and it's not helping.

'99 Boxster 2.7 - no problem for 39K miles. '03 Boxster S had IMS failure and engine was replace at 13K miles. Sold at 29K miles with no additional problem. '04 C2 Cab with 21K miles had RMS leak. Just replaced with the 997 seal and so far, so good. 66% failure if you count the old 2.7 in the Boxster?