alternative to the 911

what do you guys think are some alternatives to a brand new 911 if you were in the market. i was thinking the new aston martin amv8. its a hell of a lot better looking (it should be its an aston) but also more expensive (starts at 110k i beleive) and a bit slower.

With the way Ford is doing, I would'nt be surprised if Aston Martin is non existent in a few years. There is lots of news that the Premier Automotive Group (Land Rover, Aston Martin, Volvo and Jaguar) might axe one of their brands. I would not be comfortable buying such a car. Why try catching a falling knife?

Maserati Gran Sport. Saw one at the Glen a few weeks ago and it's a great looking machine. Plus, this one was a convertible, too. I still like my 996, though

yech, i disagree entirely. i find the styling on modern maseratis to range from uninspired to downright awkward. i think from most angles the aston is a beautiful car, and i love the exclusivity of the aston versus the more common porsche, but i suspect at the end of the day there would be a C2S in my garage.

There is no substitute.

Tesla Roadster... 100% electric, 0-60 mph in 4 secs, 250 miles per charge.. will set you back $110K... http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

I will take a DB9 OVER a 911 Turbo. I WILL take an M5 OVER a 911 and an M6 OVER a 911 S/C4S... ...not sure about the C4S. I think I would take it over the M6. ****, I don't know. maybe I'd take the any 911 over any BMW. I guess it depends on what day it is. Never mind, I'll take P-car over ANYTHING!!

Their FAQ has a question "Can I trade in my porsche?" with the answer as "No". Sid

You got that right....if you want RELIABLE supercar performance...Porsche is the only way to go...I LOVE the way the Aston looks, but I have seen too many oin the back of tow trucks with paper plates and angry owners.....They have horrible reliability....

But...Vincent Chase and the boys drive one!! I wann be them!

the reliabilty would be the only thing holding me back from the aston. so in the end i would just get a new porsche

but everytime i would see the aston i would just smile and think son of a b**** thats a gorgous car

There are at least two types of people here in regard to Porsche ownwership. 1) There are the Porschephiles that are excited with most all Porsches, love the history, the somewhat quirky engineering as to hanging the motor behind the rear axle on the 911s and 356s. And most everything associated with the Porsche mistique and marque. 2) Then there are the owners that really don't know that much about the car but like it because it makes a statement that the owner must be somewhat affluant. These owners would be just as happy with an expensive model BMW, MB, Ferrari or any other car that reflects current outward appearances of excess. I know both types and nothing is wrong with either, so the answers you get here may depend upon the type of owner.

My second choice would be a slightly used 911 and my 3rd choice would be a moderately used 911. Last choice???? A beat-up and abused 911.

Don't forget. In that little black & white world we live in, sometimes a little grey seeps through. I AM that gray. I own the car for a certain mixture of the 2. I LOVE the heritage. Otherwise, I would have bought a Cayman. I LOVE the 911 becuase of how it looks, as well as performs. That look can be traced back so far, so I can look at that car in my driveway, I realize, I am now part of that lineage. That feels good!! I also LOVE what it says @ me as a person. Someone who has class, style and taste. So you see, I am black and white all mixed up into grey!!

I agree... there are some cars that I like and respect, but would never own. I'm firmly in catagory 1. I love Aston Martin, but would never buy one.. for the same reason that I wouldn't buy a Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus, or a Lambo... the guy at the shop would get more enjoyment out of seeing it then I would and probably spend more time with it. Porsche has a unique place in high performance cars in that it is affordable, reliable and driveable. Very few highline cars can claim the same. At risk of getting flamed to death, I've never been impressed with BMW, even though my family swears by them... in my mind you can get more car (in many aspects) from lesser priced vehicles. Additionally, BMW has become too common...everyone and their dog has one.. may as well buy a Toyota.

[QUOTE=arr0ganI also LOVE what it says @ me as a person. Someone who has class, style and taste. [/QUOTE] Ouch! You don't want to say that. You only THINK it says that about you. It says no such thing. It just says that you're willing to put down a big chunk of cash on a car, it says nothing about you as a person. If anything, others might argue about all the negative things that owning a Porsche says about you. It's all about perspective. Status symbols are in the eye of the beholder... never as important to others as they are in the mind of the owner. I'm of the opinion that you should buy something because you like it, nnot because what it "says about you."

Go drive a new M5 bro!! maybe the best car on the planet for 80k!!!

Can't argue with you there!!! But I have to be honest. When I pull up to Valet at the clubs, I like what I drive and what it may say about me. The positive comments and attention I have gotten, you want me to lie and say I don't love it? Some may think "oh he just spent alot of money, thats all". Others say, "he drives a 911, that shows class." I don't mind either, to be honest.

Again, eye of the beholder. There are some that say that in terms of raw performance and value a new Corvette would blow it away. I'm not a big BMW fan because of the false "status symbol" tag that people have put on them, along with their rampant proliferation in recent years. The M5 is a fine car, just that you wouldn't find me buying one.

We can agree to disagree. I say its the best all-around car for $80k. All around - Performance, CLASS, style, CLASS, looks, CLASS, reliability, CLASS. BMW makes some fine cars!! Alot of people may drive 325i's but NOT M5's. I see WAY more P-cars on teh road than M5's

Oh absolutely. I can't say I don't like the attention. On my drive to NJ and back last weekend I got the biggest kick out of seeing the attention the car gets when I look in my rear view mirror... the hand motions describing the tail, the strained necks, the feeble attempts to keep up with you.... but that's a different kind of narcissism.

Back to the topic at-hand. I think an M5 is a car I would feel confident spending the scratch and getting that return on my investment.

I agree that we can agree to disagree. Class is important to you. I don't mean this to sound bad (I really don't) - and unless you have the same upbringing, then it will be hard to understand, but I grew up in europe in a class structure - class is not important to me because I was born into it. Class is only important to someone who subconsciously thinks that they don't have it or need symbols to show it. If you have it, you don't care about it. I grin, but I'm being serious. It's an American thing to think that you can buy class, when in fact it's all about upbringing and attitude.

Well said oreganet! Large collections of expensive material things have absolutely nothing to do with class. The older you get, the more apparent this becomes.

No doubt, the Aston V8 Vantage is sex on wheels...but for that same $110K (or less), you could have a C2S with X51 (same power as the Aston but several hundred pounds less), a GT3, lightly used Turbo with X50...I'd love the Aston as a second car if I was of such means, but not over a 911.

I know a guy with a almost brandnew Aston DB something...I told him that I loved that car....he answer: I love it to until is stoped working on me...this stupid car is in the shop more than it drives!! I think he had only 5K miles on the clock!!! So I will keep my 911...and once in a while give it an oil change...a coolant cap etc....these are still very cheap repairs and happen only so often! BUT I got to admit..the Aston's are beautiful!!

last year top gear pitted the 997S against the v8 vantage and the m6 they shipped 'the stig' out the the isle of man in the wet and lit it up the 911 came out way on top when it came to actual performane (little surprise) it was a fun episode check it out if you have not seen it as you can see in my .sig i am hoping that bmw makes their next beastie 'competative'

... or you could be a zebra!

Status symbols are in the eye of the beholder... never as important to others as they are in the mind of the owner. I'm of the opinion that you should buy something because you like it, nnot because what it "says about you." I believe that if we exclude high school kids, cars aren't that important to the vast majority of people. Lots of my friends who could easily afford to spend $100K+ on cars, are driving nondescript vans or sedans that cost less than $30K. So anyone buying a car to impress someone else is wasting his money. As you say buy it because you like it, not because you hope that it will impress others.

i think i should have started this thread differently and said what would you like as a second car not what would you trade for. i to would never trade my porsche in for one of thoughs but i would like to own one. cars like that have to many bad quirks and i don't know if i could stand them as a daily driver

as a lad i had dreams of a 911....been there done that...know i feel free to try other stuff. which is part of what is fueling the move to BMW(really back to as i had a 530i) after the m3 maybe i will move back to porsche or ferrari....or whatever is hot. i love the p brand but i am not married to it.

Bingo! I regard myself as privileged and I work with lots of other people in the same boat. Sure, there are several Porsches in the parking lot, but the vast majority are just run of the mill Subaru, Ford, etc. Doesn't mean that they can't afford them, believe me, they can, they just choose not to, as it's not that important to them. I've never been a fan of doing anything for the sake of others - car choice included. Be secure in yourself and do something that makes you happy, not because you think that it provides the right appearance or message to others. Personally, my attitude is "screw 'em" when it comes to the subject of what others might think of me. It's not important because I'm happy and secure in who I am.

I don't think I fall into either category. I'm just a CAR GUY. I love all kinds of sports cars. I always wanted a p-car so I bought one. I love the looks and performance and I can take my two year old and my wife with me. But, I also love Corvettes (I've owned 3) I used to own an M3, I also own an Audi S4. When my S4's lease is up, I will probably buy an RS4 or the new M3. In a couple of years I might trade my C4S for a turbo or GT3. I will probably buy a Lotus Elise soon. I also wouldn't mind an Evo or an STi, or an NSX, etc. I didn't buy a p-car because of the hertigage or to impress my neighbors, etc. I bought it because it's a great sports car, and I love driving it. I plan to own a lot more sports cars in the future, but not just p-cars.

That's the right attitude to have, there are plenty of car out there worthy of adoration. I think the DB( is the sexiest car alive, and if someone bought one you'd never hear me say "You should of got a Porsche". They are, however, very different cars, and I would consider it more of a competitor with a cls63 or sl55 merc than with a Porsche.

Brand new cayman

Strictly form the performance perspective, the Corvette Z06 is the ultimate bang for the buck. The BMW M6 is an alternative for those that only care about straightline perfromance with a cushy ride and a lazy transmission. Other than that, in the price range for a Carrera there is no other current competitor. The Maserati Gran Sport and Aston Martin Vantage are priced substantually more for a much lower sport focus. With all that said and done, there is something that will be a serious threat on the horizon: the Audi R8. The R8 will be a mid-engine 2+2 with Quattro 4WD in V8 or V10 configurations. The V8 is the same 4.2l version in the RS4 with 420 hp and an estimated curb weight of 3200 lbs. The V10 will have 500 hp and be sourced from the Lamborghini Gallardo. The V8 is expected to start around $75K with the V10 around $100K. $75K for a 420 hp mid-engine 4WD sports car weighing 3200 lbs may be the next bang-for-the-buck in performance. Considering that it will be coming from another German high-end automaker instead of a quality-challenged struggling domestic automaker making disappointments like the Malibu and SSR, it will be a serious threat.

Don't know how the Porsche community feels about Japanese sports cars, but another potential serious competitor is the next Nissan GT-R. Ghosn has repeatedly stated the new GT-R's target is the 911 Turbo.

WOW, did this thread go off topic. How did we get from talking about your choice for a 911 replacement to a discussion of owner profiling? If the 911 was not an option, I would get a Cayman S in a heartbeat. I agree with the comments above on Italian product, and will continue to admire, drool and never buy one. -- M

I'm reading this as "What would you have bought instead if you couldn't have gotten your 911". And it's kind of hard, since really, I haven't driven all that many cars in my life. At least, not that many good ones I've had more than my fair share of Cobalts and Grand Prix from rental companies.. But here's the list of cars I'd investigate, all at or below what I spent on the 911 (mostly below): - E46 330 or M3 - E36 M3 - M Roadster or M Coupe (hey, I *like* the styling) - MR2 Spyder (concerns about power..) - Boxster - Z06 (maybe) - WRX STi (have a little seat time, seemed nice, would like to try it again) - Evo IX (more interested in the Subaru, I think... heard this one's a bit rough.. I like rough, but there's a limit...) - S4 V6 or V8 (like the V8 a lot, never tried the V6 despite coming so close as to get a loan for one once before the deal fell through) So, what performance car haven't I named yet? It looks like there may be a Miata in my future, though, of all things. But that's mainly an opportunity thing - someone came to me with an amazing deal that I can't pass up (similar to the S4 V6 I nearly bought). I love my E24 to pieces, but she's a cruel mistress sometimes..

No bro, class as in classy, or nice, not status. You know how, when you get a new toy, you want to show it off. Thats it. I think you mis-read me. Once again, I don't drive it, to show people i'm in a certain class, rather that I have class, drive a porsche. Its a new toy, i'm gonna enjoy all those aspects.

I owned an Infiniti G35 Coupe (Nissan Skyline 350GT in Japan) and the new car is not going to be a competitor. It will be a competitor for the RS4. Why? Weight. Expect it to tip the scales at 3800+ lbs. It will be a good grand tourer like the RS4 and the new 4000 lb Shelby GT500 mustang, not a sports car.

I am pretty sure the skyline 350Gt in japan is not in the same series at the GTR - I think its a skyline just in name I say this because the last release GT-R was the R34 and the one to be released in 2008 in the USA is the R35 I have driven the R33 and the R34 and they are incredible machines, completely different from the soft nissan 350z/infiinti G35 -derived 'skyline 350gt'. The last available R-34 weighed 3388 lbs, less than the new 911 turbo and only slightly more than a new C4S I would definitely not rule out a GT-R if interiuor plastics and drivin experience is up to par

<<<<"what do you guys think are some alternatives to a brand new 911 if you were in the market. i was thinking the new aston martin amv8. its a hell of a lot better looking (it should be its an aston) but also more expensive (starts at 110k i beleive) and a bit slower.">>>> I have to take issue with your "it's a hell of a lot better looking" comment. Of course this is just your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but you state it as though it were a fact. In my opinion the 911 blows away Aston Martin in the looks department. Granted I am extremely biased toward Porsche, but I just do not see the appeal of the Aston(any Aston), especially its looks. In fact, I personally think it may be the least attractive of all the great sports cars. IMHO only Ferrari can match and dare I say beat the aapearence of the 911. I did mention that I was slightly biased did't I?

some alternatives to a brand new 911 I agree that the aston martin is a good alternative for the 997 or 997S but I don't agree that it is better looking or even as nice looking. An atlernatives for the 997TT, then I suggest the Ferarri 599 or Corvette Z06. I would never suggest a sedan like Audi or BMW to the list of alternatives unless it was a list of alternatives for a Cayenne. A very smart and less expensive alternative to a 997 if you can live without the 6"s of seat in the back is a Cayman S or 07 Boxster S. These are amazing on the track and very easy to drive. Drop the 997S 3.8 X51 engine in it and it will smoke the 997S at the track or in a straight line and would probably keep up to the 996 Gt3 at the track.

I love the look of the aston but servicing and reliability are two BIG questions I have (for where I live) Mooty said on the Cayman board that the 's' should be upgraded with the 3.6 engine - if this get announced next year then this will make me even more pleased to place my order next year. I love my carerra but I have a limited window for having a two seater - the next 4 years so I have to get one soon or wait a looooong time

Take a look at this one, the new DB9S coupe: http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/...roadgoing-dbs/ That has got to be the sexiest god-damned car I've ever seen!

How come nobody has mentioned the always scorching Toyota Avalon, with the benchseat up front and a vinyl roof on top? -- M

In regards to the M6, my brother just picked one up, all I can say is " I Am NOT IMPRESSED " For the money - Hell No - I will take my 996 anyday ! IMHO

I personally think the 6 series is overpriced in general and they should have released a version using the 3 liter straight six like in europe If i want a car with 0-60 in 5 secs, I have my 911, but i would also like a relaxed big coupe, and 265 HP is plenty fine for the 6 series

dreamcarrera your right it is only my opinon that the amv8 is a gourgous car and i guess i just didn't type that out carefully enough. i also got to thinking about what kind of porsche owner i am. so well i figured out that im just an extreme car guy that would be willing to sacrifice everything for the car that i want. now this doesn't mean i would sacrifice everything for speed. so i thought about it and the car i would by at this time if i was in the market would be the Audi rs4. i know it's kind of a "down grade" from a porsche but i just love the look. also i picture one thats all black with window tint sitting on some nice bbs rims.

If I didn't need back seats, I'd consider 987S, SL550/55, F360 or any AM. For a 2+2 sports car, choices narrow down to pretty much 911 alone. M3/ M6 and RS4 are all too heavy to be a true sports car even though performance are all impressive.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the Corvette yet... of course, my response all had to do with cars I could get for what I paid for my 911 or less. I know some C5 Z06's are in the low $30's. If I hadn't wanted specifically a 911, it would have at least had to cross my mind. I told myself as a kid I'd never be caught dead in one, but even though they still have some "bugs" (****ty interior, styling has had to grow on me, etc.) I'd at least have driven one if I hadn't been heart-set on a 911...

I just sold my C5 Z06 in order to purchase my C4S. The C5 Z06 is a great car for the money. I've owned three vettes. I have a two year old so I never was able to drive it anymore, (now I can take her with me in the C4S) but it has great bang for the buck, can be a dialy driver (if you don't live in the snow belt) and gets almost 30 mpg on the highway. Very reliable too. I may buy another one one day and use it as a track car. Going from a p-car to a Z06 the Z06's interior feels real cheap and the p-car is definitely more fun to drive.

Hey Racecardriver, Always nice to read your posts I'm curious - does the Revo chip in your S4 make a big difference? It's one heck of an engine, with or without a chip! Justin

Thanks. Yes, it did. I did a milltek non-res catback at the same time as the chip and yes it made a difference. You feel it mainly at higher rpms. Car pulls like a rocket at high revs (doesn't level off like the car in stock form) and when you shift you still have a ton of power in the next gear. The best thing about the chip is that it gets rid of the jerkyness of the drive by wire throttle. Before the chip, you would floor the gas and the computer would say no. With the chip it responds the way you want it to. I wouldn't say it increases the 0-60 time, but you really feel the difference accelerating onto the highway, passing someone, etc. Well worth the $600 for the chip. Add H-Sport sway bars for $300 and it handles like it's on rails. Basically adding those mods made a major difference and then made my Z06 expendable (good excuse to get a p-car)

What about this. Looks crazy fast. And good excercise. Couldn't resist a little Friday afternoon humor to lighten things up. -Paul

That or a Maserati Spyder.

One more ...

How about the 2007 RS4? WHAT A BEAST. Gorgeous interior as well. http://www.break.com/index/bmw_m5_vs_audi_rs4.html With its 420-hp peak in full bloom at 7800 rpm, the RS 4 is blessed with an engine that is flexible and rev happy. That�s what makes a 4.6-second 0-to-60 time possible Car and Driver http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...4-quattro.html

Holy Cow! I'm amazed the noone got killed in the making of that video!

I've seen that video before - I was under the impression it was an MTM-tuned S4...

Prior to the 911 I owned a 2000 Corvette, a 1998 NSX and a 2003 NSX. If I couldnt own the 911 I would have stayed with the NSX. The NSX is a great ride. Ferrari and Aston would be nice, but they'd be out of my price range. I dont feel comfortable going higher than $75k or so for any car. I'm not a big sedan guy, but the M5 is certainly a mighty sport sedan. I dont think its fair to compare it to the 911 in terms of "exclusivity" though. Sure you see way more 911s, but the vast majority of people have no clue what an "M5" is, so thats a wash. I've had friends with M3s (another great sports sedan that I like a lot) point that out as an advantage/disadvantage depending on how you look at it. 99.9% of the people assume the "M" car (or AMG for that matter) is just the base model. I got a lot of seat time in the RS6 and it was a great car. Insanely fast and tight (It feels super heavy though), but I dont think I could ever buy one. Im sure the same would be true of the RS4 for me personally. Audi is terrific, but the price point of an Audi has pretty much equalled BMW these days and I dont view them as the equal of BMW. Just as background, my first car was an 1985 Audi 4000 and I had a BMW 330xi back in 2001 and both were terrific cars.

I love the new RS4 as well. The video you posted was the older RS4 vs. the older (e39) M5. That RS4 was also MTM tuned (I believe it was pushing around 600hp). Was posted on the m5board awhile back. Great video nonetheless I'd like to test the new one against my e60m5.

I agree, I have an S4 and everyone things it's an A4.

I think i'd be happy driving an M5 as my only car, hence would be something I would consider as an alternative. Not even thinking or caring what others may think.

For me, the best alternative to a 911 is another Porsche. As an alternative to my 911, I also have a 968 and a 912E. The 968 satisfies with its good performance and it works well as a long distance tourer. The 912E is all about heritage and tradition, but not performance (86 hp!). Because I do alot of driving and I only own Porsches, I especially value certain practical/functional features that make them good daily drivers - good visibility from the driver's seat, reclining seats, and storage behind the front seats. The ability to recline the seats (especially important when taking breaks on a long trip) is something that's particularly important to me. Any car with a bulkhead immediately behind the seats (BMW Z4, Cayman, etc.) doesn't afford this "luxury." Of the three, the 911 is awesome and still takes my breath away. If I couldn't have a Porsche and had to buy one good all around car, I'd consider an Audi TT or a BMW M3.

I agree that the M5 would be a great only car. My comment was more to the earlier point that "you rarely see an M5, whereas 911s are everywhere"

Ahhh, 911's may be everywhere, but how often to you see a C4S, or even a TT?