Stereo install opinions?????

Well the sound system sux in my 99 C2 (known fact). I don't want to go nuts. Just want decent sound. Two shops I have talked to suggested the same thing. Base bypass on the door speakers, Added AMP, Slim base woofer in the rear. The pricing I have been getting is around $750.00 Amp Custom Box Woofer Wiring Misc parts/install Does this seem like a good approach and also how does the price sound? One place is charging $250 to build the box for the woofer. What do you guys think. Keep in mind I don't want to dump a ton into this project.

Will you lose the use of your back seat with the sub-woofer?

Nope. Where it comes down in a stair step towards teh back seat it will be level.

$ 750 for an amp, woofer and install is pretty cheap. Not sure I would want to try to do it cheaper in a nice vehicle and just the addition of subwoofer might not make the difference you are looking for. I would put a nice set of components up front and a nice amp amp to run front and rear speakers before worring about a subwoofer. I would focus on strengthening and cleaning up your sound in the 120 hz to to 2k range and add a nice smooth tweeter for the highs. A good set of components will give you decent low end performance (down to 80 or 100hz), but if you want boom boom (30 to 60hz range), you will need to add a sub. A nice set of components from Dynaudio or Focal Poly Kevlar 165 K2s will hit pretty hard for mid bass speakers and would probably satisfy your desires for low end.

BTW, if you have the Bose "high end" Porsche system, they may be suggesting only a subwoofer because canddily that is about all you could really do with the Bose system in a budget your mentioning. The Bose stuf is all geared to run at 1 or 2 ohms and is generally incompatible with the good stuff. You pretty much have to rip everything out from the head unit to the speakers if you have the Bose if you want to start tinkering. The Bose does have a sub pre-amp out though.

Doug: Great info. Actually I have a 99. The base componant of the door speakers is terrible. You put any volume thru the stero with mid-set base it sounds terrible. The high part sounds fine. So my understanding is this will break off the base and allow for better sound range while still using the "stock" system. Am I making sence? I am not an audiophile so I am doing my best to represent the setup.

Like Doug said, adding a subwoofer while keeping the crappy speakers is not a good idea, its going to sound horrible when you raise the volume. The speakers will still sound bad regardless of the sub is not going to compensate taking the bass away form the speakers instead the freq spectrum will be even more unbalanced and the more you raise the volume the worse it will sound. Its like putting good tires on the rear and leaving worn out tires on the front. A good order of steps for upgrading would be: 1� upgrading the stock speakers (like a Focal component of woofer and tweeter, and best if you fit the 6" woofers in the doors but that will take some custom work) 2� adding an amp (best if it can also handle a subwoofer for posible future upgrade) 3� adding a subwoofer (up to here, I consider these three an absolute must for a decent stereo, but just the first two steps will give you a world of a difference already) 4� changing the headunit

Tim: You are making perfect sense about breaking off the base and redicrecting it, but Carlos' tire example was great. The subwoofer may just amplify how bad the other part of the system is. You may get a nice boom boom, but your vocals and most of the listening range will still be weak. Redirecting base will take a load off the mids and keep them from distorting as bad. My guess, however, is that if your not happy with your system's sound even at lower volumes prior to distortion, you wont be happy by just adding a subwoofer. Stereo shops are used to subwoofer systems and it is true to get any great low end response, you need a subwoofer. Alot of folks may be happy with just with great components as the low end response with great components will be better than what they used to hearing. In your price range, CDT High definitions in my opinion have the best mid range response (vocals and most of what you hear), but Dynaudio and Focal poly-kevlar line will play lower. I have close $ 10k wrapped up in my Ruf system and my sub box can be taken out so that my kids can sit in the back seat. The system sounds fine and has nice low end response even without the sub box. I would consider starting out with a set of Focal 165 K2s or the new Dynaudio 6.5 component set. The 165 K2s are a little larger than 6.5 inches so they may require some modifications whereas the Dynaudios may fit without modifications. Also, the CDT High Definitions are worth considering if you will later add a subwoofer. If you do not have a separate tweeter hole, consider the CDT components that have a tweeter mount so that the tweeter can be mounted on the mid like a coaxle speaker. If doing things on a budget, focus primarily on allocating the majority of your resources to the mid range/full range speakers, add a small amp, then a sub. When you start getting into more high end sound, then the head unit will be as important as the head unit has more importance. As long as the stock head unit has pre-amp outs, you can get by with it and still have a decent sound. Most SQ change will be noticeable from the mid range/full range speakers and the head unit though. If you are sticking to a tight budget though, I would maybe do the head unit last. Regardless of head unit, you will still need an amp and decent full range speakers. On amps, try to focus something in the mid range such as JL, Phoenix Gold Tantrum series or ZX, PPI or etc. as opposed to the real cheap stuff. You will be okay with mid level amps, but may end up worse off if going with really low end amps. The moral of the storey here is not to buy the best, but definitely pass on the cheapest. Go somehwere in between.

A lot of really great opinions, but not a whole lot that you can accomplish with your current budget. The $750 should get you a nice sub/amp combo in a custom enclosure. I did the same enhancement to my Corvette audio system, but I used an off-the-shelf pre built JL sub box and the total only came to $400 including install, but this was about 5 years ago. To really "enhance" your system, I would suggest adding a pair of really nice tweeters in the front along with your custom sub in the rear. Have the installer use crossovers that direct all of the high frequency sound to your tweets, send the midrange to your existing factory speakers, and all low frequency to the sub. Should cost about $200-$300 more than your budget (assuming you don't go crazy with the tweets) and will REALLY round out your system.

WOW! You guys know your stuff. I had spoken to them about upgrading the speakers. I actually have a nice set of 6in. Blaupunk's that would do nice in the door. The door speakers are the ones that distort so badly. The guy told me that the speakers in the car are really not bad. They are just trying to do to much with the door speakers. Said the newer PCar systems have broken off the base part to the rear on a seperate channel. I will print this thread out and take it with me. See what they say Thanks a ton for the outstanding info!

Ditch the blapuncts and get a 3 way matched set with the proper crossovers for all- That is what they are hammering home

Tim, check out: www.caraudioinnovations.com This is where I purchased my subwoofer enclosure and subs from. A little pricey, but a stock look when its installed and nice tight bass with two 8's. Don't be fooled, the stock speakers in the car are REALLY that bad, most likely Nokia's. The newer models with the Bose option are a little better, but you'll never beat a custom installed system. I've got about $3,000 invested in my system and is worth every penny. Good luck!

I think you should find another guy-there is nothing in the stock system worth keeping (unless you need something to keep a door from blowing shut on a windy day, which is what I use my old head unit for ), and the speakers are the weakest link (well, maybe the amp is even weaker). I would second (I guess it is third, now) Carlos' suggestion to start with good-quality speakers in the existing locations. With a set of Focal 3-ways in the doors, you may find you don't really need the sub-woofer. Unfortunatley, I think you will have to combine his #1 and #2, since the Focals are notoriously power-hungry and are probably not easily drive-able by the current amp. And I concur with MLA911-Rod at Car Audio Innovations is great. He did a fantastic job on my car as well.

Actually, Focals are pretty efficient and one should be careful about hitting them with too much power. I have fried a set of Utopias before with clean power (300 watts from a McIntosh 602 with autoformers which is impossibel to clip/power guard and has impedience regulation/correction). The CDT HDs, Dynaudios, MB QSDs, Scan Speaks and Boston Pros can handle a 602's power. The big no no in car audio though is under powering and trying to compensate with the volume ***. Clipping/square waves are not friendly to voice coils/tweeters. With Focals, I use at least a good 100 to 150 watts per channel in 4 ohm, not 2 ohm or rated power, amp so you don't worry about clipping issues and adjust gain accordingly. Just be careful and don't try and drive Focals with too much power (175 per channel in 4 ohm) or you will be in the market for a new set of speakers.

Look, I agree with most of the people on this thread, but I have 2 major issues: 1. The recommendations they are making are fantastic if you have a $2000-$4000 budget. You cannot get all of the hi-fi components and the proper amps to run them for anywhere close to your budget. Unfortunate, but true. 2. The factory speakers are NOT that bad...when used as midranges. The problem is that the factory is trying to use them as full-range speakers, so they lose their clarity when you crank up the volume. Also, a properly balanced audio system should have the head unit treble and bass options set "flat". That is, all of the treble and bass adjustments should be a function of speaker selection, amp tweaking, and crossovers. Try turning your "stock" system completely flat and then crank up the volume really loud. You will find that it actually does not break up or sound as bad as when you are boosting the hell out of the treble & bass.

If you really wanted to go cheap, it could be done and still sound nice. Here are some options. Speakers: Crystal speakers, CDT Classics, Focal Poly Glass, JL Xl components, MB Quart Reference series with the tweeter attenuated to -4 or - 6 Amps: Cadence amp, Helix, JL amp (great sounding for the money and regulated power supply), Phoenix Gold Tantum line, Soundstream Rubicon and etc. Subs: Adire Shiva, JL 12W3, or an Elemental Designs subwoofer Sub amp: JBL 600.1. That is about $ 750 to $ 1k in internet pricing and would be an improvement. You would still have to spring for install though. Also, I would recommend a removeable down firing box that can mount on the backs of the rear seats. You can fit a 12 which is a necessity in my opinion for true low end and SQ and you can take it out if you need your rear seats. Here is my sub box. BTW, it does not look light and is very drak. The flash is most deceiving on this one. The add a Clarion 800 or 900 series that has dual 24 bit processing which is only found on the high end stuff for about $ 275. The result if a solid sounding system in the $ 1k to $ 1.25k range. You guys are quoting $ 3k. Hahaha. I wish that worked for me. I would have more money for my GT3 kit for my new 996. I have $ 5.5k in just two amps in my Ruf. Throw in another $ 1k for head unit, $ 900 for power box, electronic crossover and MEC control unti for the crossovers and parametric eqs which was another $ 250 internet prices. All electronics are McInotsh though. Then add another $ 700.00 in sub box with woofer, a set of Dynaudio 7s, Dynaudio 2 inch mid, with scan speak revelators in front $ 1.5k in internet prices and MB QSD mid base with Morrell Esotec twetters in the rear $ 1.4k. I probably have close to $ 1k in RCAs and in shielded, directional and balanced wiring with platnum tips and distribution block. Overkill to some, but Nirvana to me and would not settle for anything less. I can also do my install which allows me to substitute speakers and etc. until I find the right combinations. I then get everything hooked up, running and sounding good before going to a stereo shop to have the nice clean install done. Stereo systems are an infliction if you get hooked and can be very costly. My boat system has 3 subs, 20 spekaers, 5 amps all class A except the sub amps and well over 4,000 watts at load the amps are actually seeing as opposed to amp rated power all for about $ 20k. One thing to keep in mind is to do it right. I have enough unsued equipment sitting around that I could open a used stereo shop. Trying to save a few dollars on the front end can end up costing a whole lot more on the back end when you find out that the cheap amp you bought just ain't cutting it and you start upgrading stuff. Cheaper to bite the bullet and do it right on the front end. Otherwise, you house will look like a used stereo shop like mine with a bunch of used used stuff laying around. My experience is that a lot of shops know actually less than you think they know and they are also there to sell their products be it good or bad. Shop around and get various ideas. I, however, would source the equipment on line and just pay a shop to do a clean install. Anyway, sorry for the longish posts, but I have probably owned, auditioned and tested just about every mid range to upper end amp and mid to upper end speakers. Once I start babbling about this stuff, I could go on for days after having so many **** poor systems installed by supposedly high end shops.

Doug, how difficult is it to just swap the stock speakers and amp for better ones that will fit? Is a shop required or is it a do-it-yourself project with relative ease? Barring that, what would you expect to pay in labor charges for that, barring custom fabrication to put larger speakers in the door, etc.? Vic 99 C2 cab

That is great advice Doug. I think that list is perfect and worth the little extra in installation and sub box for what you would get. I would go for two 10" subs in sealed enclosure on the rear instead of the 12" but thats a matter of taste and music prefferences. Here is my box: ... been there thats why I agree your sample stereo setup I think is perfect for Tim. And don't let the shop do ther deciding for you, better to do the research yourself and find everything you need to know and what is going to give you the best results for what you are looking for and your budget. Then all you have to do is give the components you shopped around for or the list of what you want to the shop and tell them exactly how you want it done.

Thanks guys. I am reading more stuff on this so I will be better educated and able to figure out what will work best in my car under my budget.

Those 10s look great Carlos. A really nice install. 12s would be too large to look good back there. I am just not a real big fan for 8s. 10s can sound real tight and have very nice SQ with good lows. Carlos' placement of subs is optimal for looks and sound in my opinion. I keep thinking about my convertible where this is not an option. The removable box with a down firing 12 would be the better option SQ wise in a cabriolet where you do not have that wonderful rear deck space to work with. You would have to use a shallow sub on the rear deck. I purschsed a Diamond M6 Titanium 12 inch for a shallow application as it is only 6 inches deep whereas most hi end subs require mounting depths of 8 or more inches. The 12 inch M6 is very tight and musical and can be had for $ 350 and maybe much less off the internet. 10 inch will be even less. RE: replacing door speakers. Unfortunately, all of my 996s models I have owned have had upgraded stereos or the Bose system. With the Bose grills, you would almost have to have a speaker with the exact same sized basket and speaker basket is part of the art of speaker construction. Hence, very few are exactly the same and will likely not fit. If you have the Bose system or all 996s have the same grill configurations, you may be in for a really difficult job with the 4 inch and tweeters. Even the tweeter was a 3/4 inch and most hi end tweeters are 100 or 110 mm. I have at least 20 tweeters sitting around and I bet I only have 2 that would fit in those grills. If your grills look like mine, this may be a job for a good experienced installer. I suspect that Tim's installer saw those grills and realized how difficult the job would be and recommended only a sub (assuming they are the same as mine). It is possible that one could figure out a way to attach a 4 inch or a 5.25 inch with a small basket to the back side of the Bose type grills. It is truly a shame that Porsche uses Bose and Bose configures their stuff the way they do. My thought is, discconnet the rear fill channel, disconect the speakers on the dash and figure out a clean install for a very high end 2 way system solely in the doors with an off axis tweeter positioning. Suprisingly enough, the very high end components are all two ways and meant to be used with a dedicated woofer system. Even the Rainbow reference $ 4,000.00 are 2 ways so IMO, a 3 way is not necessary if you have quality cones and quality crossovers (active or passive). Just running a very high end component set up front and a sub in the back sounds like a big drop from using 10 speakers. The rear channels, however, are only ambient or sound stage and meant to only enahnce imaging. The rear channels in a normal system do not receive a full musical signal. In my cab where I have done the big system, I turn the gains almost all the way down on the rear channels because the imaging and SQ is better just with the fronts and a sub. In the summer when the top comes down, I bring the rear fill channels back up for loudness during top down driving. Imaging goes out the window so to speak when the top comes down.

There is a MacAudio Flatbed twin 8 inch sub and box that fits perfectly on the rear shelf. I have covered it with black carpet and it looks stealth. I will find out model number � but that�s if you can get MacAudio stuff in America. I am based in the UK. Cost is a not unreasonable - �150.