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Lubricate by just the engine oil
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Then the bearing is lubricated by just the engine oil, which it was not designed for.
Leading evidence: 'Lubricate by just the engine oil' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'bit optimistic' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check carfax' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Sounds good, I got the receipts from the accident, just the front bumper was replaced.
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Suspected cause
Agreed I was probably a bit optimistic on the 996.2 cars however the market is flush with examples and a bit of patience and searching will uncover something much closer to $20K than $30K.
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Suggestion
I can't imagine that there is any significant damage at just 13K miles so I would not worry about any engine damage, but from my reading and research, I think most people would recommend the IMS upgraded in this car.
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bit optimistic
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Agreed I was probably a bit optimistic on the 996.2 cars however the market is flush with examples and a bit of patience and searching will uncover something much closer to $20K than $30K.
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Way too little info provided. On the face of it, I'd say "no." But, you will find MANY who will suggest to avoid that car due to the extremely low mileage, which means it's been mainly sitting around letting seals, etc. dry up.
Perspective: In 2009 I bought my 02 C2 for 28k with 44k miles with not a scratch, ding, or stain. I think 30 is high for an 02 in 2014, especially with it never driven.
Looks like a nice clean fully stock car. So, dealer is asking $33K and you have him down to $30 K?
I'm sure you are aware of the IMSB issue, and if you want to do that "upgrade", figure in adding another $2,000 to $3,000. Use that as a
strong
negotiating point. Other age-related items should also be replaced. Does the dealer have a "story" behind this car? Why such low mileage? Have you checked Carfax? Is it a clean title?
As mentioned above, super low mileage cars scare many off. Of course, this car needs a very detailed PPI from a good independent 996 specialist.
whoa this is a super low mileage clean car. price is very good If you are into that color combo and want new car feel.
I think it is all about mileage if you don't car taking a little more mileage you can save money on another car. for me the grey interior is a no-no anyways.
I don't know if low mileage brings a premium on these days as the car aged anyways, all plastic and stuff may look great but as soon as you will get it outdoor you will see them fade very quickly unless you keep it under wrap like the previous owner.
The thing is that as soon as you go under $30k, the car condition deteriorate very quickly.
At $30k you are not getting ripped off that is for sure.
A few thousand more and you are into Turbo range.
2002 Turbo - Basalt Black Metallic / 2003 Carrera 4S - Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 - Rust Red
1) Carfax shows an accident in 2002 (click on the VIN in the dealer ad to see the Carfax).
2) Looks like this dealer has had the car since October. They should be looking to unload it by now.
3) No idea how the car was maintained, but it looks like it got about 6,000 miles in the first two years, then less than 1,000 miles/yr after that. Carfax shows a transmission repair and rear seal replacement in 2003.
4) Given the above, 30k still sounds high to me. I'd negotiate using the accident, the transmission repair, and all the stuff you can find in various threads here about maintenance issues in extremely low mileage cars. Maybe it'll work, maybe not, but it doesn't sound like there's a long line of people waiting to buy this car, so they may be ready to cut you a deal and move it off the lot.
That super low mileage is the proverbial two edged sword. Great to have a low mileage 911 but people get very nervous with regards to IMSB on super low mileage cars. I think $30k is in the ballpark but have a PPI done before you purchase and due to such super low mileage I'd have the IMSB done ASAP. I have a grey interior 911 and really like the way it lights up the interior.
Ah we screwed up then. Usually we like to be miserable abusive curs.
I have that same gray interior and love it. Black is popular, but way too hot here in Southern California. But, definitely go ahead and complain about it to the dealer during the buying process.
Personally, I think the car will depreciate in value over time, but at a very slow rate.
If the car's really been there for six months, you have huge negotiating power. Can you pay cash? Tell him something like "I know this car's been on your lot for six months. So, obviously the market is small for this car at this price. It's taking up space for more profitable cars with a faster turnover that you could have here. Tell you what, considering all the issues (discuss those in advance to downplay the car), I'll buy it right now for $27K assuming it passes an independent PPI with no significant issues."
I bet you will be the proud owner of that car.
With a "dirty" carfax, I'd pass… Even though you have the receipts of the damage. It seems like you are looking for a premium, pristine low mileage car and the fact that it has a reported accident will always make people discount the car.
Like everyone else said, a little to high but not out of the ball park. I paid extra for a low mileage 1999 (35K miles) and got bit my the IMS thing -
I would take $2500 for the IMS upgrade and another $300 off for only 1 key (those things are expensive) and start negotiating from there.
Also check the option list and see what it has. It looks like the base radio and I can't tell if it has full leather. If you can get it for the high 20's you should be good as far as depreciation. Though it is not an investment, I suspect in you could drive it for a few years and only loose a couple thousand dollars.
Personally high mileage cars don't scare me. (Recently bought a 109k mile BMW) But most buyers seem to put mileage as their #1. That being said I think your car will hold value better than most. Let's say you keep it for 3 years and drive it 10k per year. You'll still have a car with a very low 43k. That's still extremely low mileage for a car that will be what about 15 years old by then?
I think the car is selling to a different audience than most here....
If you are a collector, looking for a nice example to keep in top shape for 10-15 years, driving less than 1k miles a year and hope you can sell it for a profit, then these low mileage examples are what you're looking for... but, in that case, you would want a clean title, and the exact color scheme you want.
People on this board tend to be drivers, and thus the price is way out of sync. most would look at the low mileage as a bad thing, requiring lots of immediate attention. We plan on putting 5-10k+ on it a year, so the low mileage means nothing. And we know that for $5-10k less we can get a good daily driver that will probably be more reliable.
As for keeping value, opinions will be across the board. Rest assured though that the depreciation on these cars will be much less than a 997 or 991. Some claim (on 6speed) that prices are actually starting to climb.
Couple questions...
Do you plan to drive the car, or preserve it?
What color combo did you desire?
Did you have a set budget, and this car fell into that?
Personally, I went for a higher milage (80,000) well maintained car, with a complete service history.
I would rather know that the car got driven, but always had fresh oil, and the problem areas were all addressed (water pump, coolant tank, RMS, etc,etc)
I plan to drive the car, so the milage was not really an issue. I was looking for something in the 60,000 mile range, then my car came available so I grabbed it.
I found a 2004 C4S and got in for the same money you are looking to spend.
At the 10+ year old mark, a super low milage 996 with an accident on the car fax doesn't bring more value than a well cared for car with better history.
Also, there is a reason that car has been on the lot 8 month's!! Unless its the dealers personal demo car at the moment, NO dealer sits on inventory that long. Most floor plans for used inventory have to turn every 90 days, so I would be asking a lot more questions if you really want that car.
That is a question that I am sure is going to spark a lot of debate. I think that the theory is, and I know someone will correct me if I am wrong, is that the bearing installed by Porsche is a sealed bearing with grease inside. The seal fails and the grease gets washes away by the oil. Then the bearing is lubricated by just the engine oil, which it was not designed for. When not driven one of two things happen. The oil is not changed every 6 months and the old oil starts to slowly deteriorate the bearing because of the additives and protection properties have worn off. Or the car is not driven enough for the oil to lubricate the bearing. The theory is that high revved and aggressively driven cars with fresh oil splash more of the oil into the IMS bearing and keep it lubricated.
Again these are just theories. I can't imagine that there is any significant damage at just 13K miles so I would not worry about any engine damage, but from my reading and research, I think most people would recommend the IMS upgraded in this car.
I've had a couple friends with bad experience from that dealer and unfortunately looked them up after the fact to find others with negative reviews.
If you do get it, I would only get it at that price if they give credit on IMS or if they put one in only because the mileage is do low. In addition, I would have them give me a 2 yr warranty.
Rizza's been known to shaft people on repairs.
Thanks for everybody's advise. I was looking for the dark blue exterior with a tan interior. I will not drive the car that much 2k a year. I would like to keep it 2-3 years and would like to not lose too much money when I sell.
+1 ... Pretty much how I'd approach it. According to the Carfax, Rizza first offered it for sale on 10/14/2013. If they try to tell you that's not true, they're telling you the Carfax is wrong ... at which point you ask them what else on the Carfax is incorrect, and knock another thousand bucks off your offer. I'm with Cuda911 on this one -- I think you have some leverage here.
The 'low miles' aren't as big of a plus on 996's as they can be on other cars... In particular, the IMS bearing (anecdotally) seems to do better when driven rather than sitting, and driven hard at that.
I'd look for a car with higher mileage but thorough documentation and no auction/accident history, and as others have mentioned, at $30K you are close to the price threshold for either a mid mileage (50K-70K) 997.1 or a 996.1 Turbo.
I think there are 996.2 cars out there that are definitely worth $30K, but you better really love the car and it shouldn't have any stories that go along with it.
Paid 17k for my car a month ago. 67k miles. Low options early 99 with cable throttle. Clean in and out. New dual row ins, clutch, brakes and tires. 9k in receipts. Clean carfax/auto check. Ocean blue on space gray interior. Clean in and out, but not 'enthusiast' clean. Just fwiw.
Ken
Well to start it looks like this car has been available for quite a while. That gives an indication on the market and asking price - definitely on the high side. IMO $30K for a 996.2 is top dollar. I would say real value on that car is more like $25K due to continued 997 depreciation and as mentioned you are close to 996 TT prices.
The real question is why are you paying top dollar for a ultra low mile car that you are going to drive? The sweet spot, IMO, is a 60-80K mile car in your EXACT color/interior preference, that has the updates and service history with clean record. A car with that many miles is not going to lose much value with another 6-8K miles that you tack on over the next couple years. Something like that should ring in under $20K all day long. That way you can actually drive the car and not worry about resale value.
^^^
Hmmmm..... show me a sub $20K immaculate reasonable mileage 996.2 for sale. I'm sure the odd one pops up here and there, but that would be a rare find IMHO. Lotsa' 996.1's in that range though.
Can you give us your parameters? You are throwing me off with the 2nd option which seems completely different from the first? Is it based primarily on the color you mentioned earlier?
I'm pretty much wide open. I would rather have under 40k miles. Coupe or targa. Either transmission. Must be blue exterior and black, grey or tan interior. 30k budget.
Congrats... ****** it up and get the LN IMS done...
The money you carve off the dealer will pay for the updated bearing.
To be honest, I'm happy to see 996's sell in the high 20's-low 30's... Means the sky is no longer falling...lol
Absolutely. Change the oil and filter as soon as you get it and do a thorough inspection and if all is good you can wait forever if you want.
Most IMS bearing do not go bad. It is someting to know about and be aware of and take care of when you have time.
Agreed I was probably a bit optimistic on the 996.2 cars however the market is flush with examples and a bit of patience and searching will uncover something much closer to $20K than $30K.
Yes this is a 1999 but IMO an outstanding bargain for someone looking for a driver.
1999 996 Black, Aero, Sport seats, 63K miles $16500
. I am pretty confident that could be bought and driven for ~ 20K miles and sold for == money.
My advice... Have the dealer preform an oil/filter change and allow you to cut the filter open to look for any metal particles before the deal is done... Then, if it checks out, take it home and drive it for the weekend. Put a couple hundred miles on and dump the oil/filter again looking for metal. If both times you are not seeing anything then the bearing is at least good right now.
Without previous history, its a crap shoot....
Mine went 80,000 stock and never showed signs of an issue. I just changed it for piece of mind.
JMO but if your not going to update the bearing you could ask for a warranty. This car falls in the "high risk" section of failure prone IMSB's. Why you ask?
According to the data the worse offenders are early MK2's with low mileage. Low mileage equals lots of down time for the bearing and probably infrequent oil changes. If you dont take this seriously, you may end up with a 13,500 mile "roller".
I can't decide between the 13 K miles one for $29.5 K or the 60 K mile Tip Targa, it's fully loaded and would be to be $29K with them replacing intermediate bearing and RMS sale. Hmm
