02-05 C4S Advice

I am looking at picking up a 2002-2005 C4S Coupe, possibly with less than 50K miles. I wanted to hear some advice about this model, I was always in love with the look, I prefer a rear wheel drive then a all 4, but I can live with that. For a first time Porsche owner, would you recommend this particular model? How hard is this car to find? Overall was this year a reliable car? Thank you

you will pay more money than the c2 for sure, it is just as reliable as the base car, it is the exact same engine. it does look more bulky if that is your thing you'll pay 5 to 8k more, with that premium the turbo cars are getting really close.

It is reliable as a daily driver as like any of the other m96/m97 models. It can be easily converted to rwd. Though the type of awd in this model is predominately 95% rwd and the only real difference you can feel it that the steering is heavier and front is not as light. There are issues with these motors but for a daily driven car that isn't abused at the track it shouldn't be a problem. I'd recommend going with a 9A1 based model 2009+ or the 996 Turbo/GT3

+1 on jumper's comments. I converted mine to rwd and figure i'll reverse it if I choose to sell. I see this is your first post. Read up on these cars. Plenty of great info and experience on this board.

I've got a 2002 C4S that serves as my daily driver. It's a fantastic vehicle and I highly recommend it. While production numbers are limited compared to a C2 or C4, you shouldn't have any problem finding one. A turbo would certainly be tempting to me if I were buying right now. I think the lines of the C4S are nicer than the turbo, but the turbo engine and increased HP are nice.

IMO the C4S is significantly better looking than its narrow-bodied brethren and worth the extra money for the improved styling and better brakes.

Mine is a 2004 that I bought last year with just over 25K miles on it. I LOVE THIS CAR. I drive it 2-3 days per week and would drive it everyday if I didn't put 120 miles on it with each commute.

Looks aside, the C4S is a very nice riding and great handling machine. If you are looking for a bit more "punch" and aren't stuck on the body styling then I'd vote more for a standard C2.

Thanks that is some great info. This is my first post and I am reading as much as I can on this forum, I am new to the forum and first time Porsche owner, al though I have been a fan and Porsche lover since I was a kid I hear often some users say that the C4S 02-05 lacks power, is this the case? Does it lack a bit of a punch? Should I even consider a Turbo within those years? Is the turbo just as reliable as maybe a C4S? I had heard from a few people in the past that the Turbo is just overkill for the city, its way too much power. I am an avid motorcyclist and have ridden sport bikes on track days many times, I can honestly say that its more fun with a 600cc/750cc than it is getting a super fast 1000, its just way too much power, would you say the same about a Turbo Porsche on the street? Just too much power for the practical driver?

Underpowered? All depends on what you expect. The 4S is plenty quick and you wont come near its performance capabilities on the street. Like you've done with the motos, take it to the track.

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I have both a C4S and a TT. The C4S has plenty enough power and you can drive it hard without feeling it has too much power. It just hooks up and goes. As for it having less punch then a C2. The .1 second from 0-62mph is not all that much that anyone could say they could feel. Where the C2 is faster is when after you get to 62 mph. The C4S just can't keep up becuase of the extra weight. The TT is completely a beast when chipped, leave it stock and it will be a lot tamer but I am sure it would still be a little too much power that you'll have to drive it not as hard to keep it at bay. It hooks up but it's more of a handful. The TT is more reliable engine wise, it has it's weaker points, like leaking hydraulic spoilers and power assisted braking components which the NA 996 doesn't have. The TT parts and upgrades are also more expensive.

Lacks punch compared to what? It's a small, lightweight car with 320 HP. It's got plenty of punch.

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I'd say don't take it to the track. Drive it daily is the best for it and the IMS and RMS. If you take it to the track keep it on street tires, sessions under 20min, add a X51 pan and 3rd rad as well as a manual switch to operate the oil cooler. Let the car idle after a session to give it time to cool down naturally and use a 5-50 oil. Never 0-40. Id you planning on being a track rat, look into how you can improve the internal oiling and cooling of the m96/m97, will be costly. It's just easier to get the TT, which doesn't have those problems.

355 horsepower (2005 4S) is a respectable number given how much the car weighs. It's a fast car, but there are faster cars. The 0-60 time is about 4.5 seconds, which puts the 4S in some very respectable company. A turbo makes more power when you ask it to, so no, there is not "too much power for the practical driver." However, the turbo can be too much car for drivers who can't understand concepts like turbo lag. I have autocrossed with a guy who is genuinely too stupid to understand why he spins the car EVERY time he accelerates out of a corner. If you can afford the turbo, it would be foolish to NOT consider it. These are some oddly worded questions. I assume you're asking them in earnest, but my troll detector is tingling.

I have a 2003 C4S and it has been a solid daily driver. Plenty of power for what I need (30 mile commute) and great in the winter. The turbo was out of my budget at the time, but agree that it must be considered if within your range. It has 54k and I have had no issues.

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2005 was the year the 997 C2 came out, the C4S was still a 996 and it was 320 hp with 0-62 in 5.1. The 997 C2S 355 hp was 0-62 in 4.8

I use my 4s as DD and love it. Fast, fun and not too bad on the gas to boot. from Car and Driver .....not all specs are correct.... Base price $81,880 Price as tested $90,575 Vehicle layout Rear engine, awd, 2-door, 2-pass Engine 3.6L F-6, DOHC, 4 valves/cyl Hp @ rpm 315 @ 6800 Torque @ rpm 273 @ 4250 Transmission 6-speed manual 0-60 mph, sec 4.6 EPA mpg 17 city/24 highway Total mileage 5771 Average test mpg 17.3 Problem areas None Non-warr cost $0

The 355 HP seemed high. Specs are all over the place - but even even a lowly 315 HP with a 5-sec 0-60 time isn't pathetic.

Let me jump back in here. The C4S is by no means under powered or a dog. I have the opportunity to often drive the C2 back to back with the C4S and it is a "feeling" kind of thing where the C2 "feels" like it has more punch. I have attributed that to 100% of the available power being at the rear wheels of the C2. This said, the C4S attains the same speed as the C2 over the same stretch of local roads I routinely travel. The C4S handles better - I can seemingly breeze through some specific turns in the upper 80MPH range with the C4S - swap for the C2 on the same evening and same road and those turns in the upper 80MPH range sometimes scare me a bit and I catch myself rolling out of the throttle much sooner. My C4S has a touring suspension and the C2 has the U.S. M030 sport suspension. This makes the C4S a more comfortable long distance cruiser (which the wife prefers) and the C2 feel a bit more raw (which I appreciate when driving solo and getting to kick things around a bit). I thoroughly enjoy both cars and appreciate the subtle differences each has to offer. I'd still be hard pressed to choose one car over the other. That day might very well arrive and I'd probably make a more logical decision on which one I'd keep since I seem to be addicted to both of them. I have zero experience with a 996 TT - but I do remember driving a Turbo in the mid 80's and it truly scared the hell out of me - my knees were knocking and I was literally trembling when I got out of that car. And 320 HP is plenty much for me - I guess if I ever learn how to use the power it has to offer I might become interested in a TT.

I think for a first time Porsche owner, I will start with non TT. First off the TT is a bit above my budget and I think right now its a bit too much for me. I am curious to know how a all wheel drive sports car feels powering out of corners rather than a rear wheel, I am looking for some in my area now to go and test drive. I won't be a track rat, I will most likely spend 1-2 track days a year. Can you elaborate more on the recommendations for a 3rd rad, and X51 and manual switch for an oil cooler? Would a C2 not require these same things? Why is the C4S not as good as a track car compared to the C2?

You dont need the 3rd radiator. The C4s has the turbo's larger radiators (unlike the narrow body cars). I've NEVER gone above operating temperature in all the track events I've done and I beat my car to ****. Yes, i have a pretty ridiculous maintainence schedule, but then again, if you're tracking it, you need to be up on the service. Car hit Laguna Seca with 1100 miles on the odometer. Currently has 143k miles and I'm registered for Sears Point in 2 weeks.

I switched to an 04 C4S Cab with 39k miles on it as my daily driver in April of last year. It's at 54k today - my commute is canyon roads and PCH and I love it. I prefer rear wheel drive cars (also own an 84 911) but I really like the AWD for foggy canyon roads and don't really notice it otherwise. Since buying it: - oil change - rear brakes (knew this from the PPI) - new tires (knew I needed rears when I bought it) - Replaced the water pump (started leaking at almost exactly 50k - which I believe is when it is supposed to be replaced.) - Broken Power steering hose - Alternator/Battery (unusual that the alt died - but it did and I killed the battery driving on it) I will likely swap out for a Turbo though I might hold out till I can move all the way up to a 997 Turbo Cab. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. O

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A C2 would need the same things. The C4/4S is just as capable track car as the C2. Heavier but easier to drive and you can get on throttle way earlier and harder coming out of the corners. Search the forum for X51 pan and 3rd Rad and low temp Here are a few links https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...or-on-c4s.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...solutions.html https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l-baffles.html

A 996 C4S will have an ask price in the high $30s or just under $40. A few grand more gets you a 996 Turbo with maybe 65K miles. That few grand gets you the legendary Porsche power plant instead if the M96 power plant in the C4S. Well worth the search and wait for a stock 996 Turbo. They are reliable and no 10 year old cars will be prefect so budget for extra cash. I have yet to hear a M96 engine hitting 300K miles with regular maintenance.

I am in the UK and have had a 996 C4S '04 with 50k miles for just over two years now and have replaced the usual things that probably would also need doing on a 996 turbo. Includes: Failure of alternator voltage regulator approx $30 New battery due to above problem $120 All new tyres - same as the turbo $1200 + geometry Oil pressure switch $90 New condensor - $200 +$600 fitting unfortunately had to repeat myself as leaked after garage crushed O rings. Unusually failed casting on convertible hood mechanism. I'm looking for a turbo as no IMS bearing problem and no cylinder scoring problems on the Mezger designed engine. Also I hear it's faster(!); sometimes just as I think the C4S is really starting to get into its stride it hits the rev limiter - usually in second but sometimes in third. I have not driven a two wheel drive 911 but I had a 3.2S Boxster for 5 years and on the 911 you do notice that the front can get light under acceleration in tight corners, which the 4wd probably helps to keep under control by switching torque to the front. The suspension is also lowered compared to a standard 996 by I think 15mm and the brakes are from the turbo so more powerful but in reality probably not noticeable on the road. The X51 variant has 25 hp more from factory changes to the engine, and as mentioned above a revised sump, in the UK they are not very usual so other factors are probably more important, e.g. regular servicing and oil changes. Hope some of the above is useful.

So a 996 TT would be as reliable as a 996 NA engine in daily driving? I'm a bit of a Porsche newb and learning fast. Live in the PNW, not afraid of 2wd in Snow/Ice up here the few times we get it. (Drive a old M3 as my DD, Z06 as my toy) Looking at 996's to either replace my M3 or the wife's 08 TTq V6 6sp. (In which then I'd get an E46 M3, need decent back seat) Probably a year away, but I like to research a ton before purchasing. Also, are all 996 C4's C4S's? Or did they build both, cause I rarely see any labeled as C4S in ads...

I would argue 996TT would be even more reliable in the long run providing you warm up and cool down turbos. Plus your need for speed is satisfied with one purchase saving upgrade transaction costs from selling your NA car. The 996TT is the deal of the century for fast cars. Front bobbing is solved by suspension upgrading from stock.

I've owned a Turbo before and I'm very aware of cool down, plus I only use Top Synthetics to keep everything clean and running well...

I'm on my second C4S and I love this model for lots of reasons. Get your IMS bearing taken care of and then take it to the track and thrash it. I abuse the hell out of mine and it's never complained. A fair amount of maintenance related to tracking, but it's a stout machine that's a lot of fun to drive ... around town, in the mountains or on the track. I don't know why someone would convert it to RWD aside from getting a BIT less push on the track. Also seems to violate the soul of the car ... like adding turbo to a NA 911, or turning a Cabrio into a coupe somehow. If AWD isn't your thing, neither is the C4S.

I think the spread between a C4S and a TT has reduced to the point that the C4S doesn't make much sense... C4S is essentially a Turbo without the Turbo (and perhaps more importantly, without the Metzger engine). Plus the Turbo bodywork is even a bit better looking with the intake vents. Figure $35K for an extra clean C4S and another $2,500 if you want to put in a LN IMSB vs. $43K for a similar year/condition TT that will never need an IMSB. Both can be had for about $5K less (still in great condition) if you find a great deal or with a bit higher mileage. My personal picks for 996's: A cheap, high mileage, well mantained MkI Carrera 2 for under $20K. A perfect, mid mileage MkII C2 for mid to high $20K's. An extra clean, well maintained MkII TT for low $40K's. The biggest problem I find with Turbo's is that so many of them were configured with 'ugly' options or tiptronic. It's definitely just personal taste, but I find that the grey and tan interiors just didn't age well at all, and also find the wood interiors to be deal-breakers. I'm still looking for the right TT for me.. 2002-2004, six speed, under 70K miles Black interior (full leather a plus), cosmetically stunning, less than 2-3 previous owners, service doc's, unmolested by spurious mods. Track use o.k., stone chips o.k., hey, I'll even accept some minor paint/bodywork!

If anyone is interested, I know a bumble bee. 996TT Yellow/Blk with 8K miles asking $52K.

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Is it on rennlist? If not could you send me a link..thanks

I love my 03 C4S and looked for two years before finding it, but totally worth it. Not only did I get a great price on a great car, but I was able to the the color combo that I wanted(white/blk). Further, I got an upgraded ecu, techart wheels, rear spoiler, and pss9 suspension. Take your time and find what you love, and don't rush. Yes, if only $5k then no brainer to get a TT, but for $15k more, it is a different decision. Good luck! Patrick

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Have not decided to rule this one out yet. It's a private sale not posted anywhere.