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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHTraction Control Off
Leading reported evidence
Run with mt tc off
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I run with mt TC off when I autocross and track my car.
Leading evidence: 'Run with mt tc off' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check limited slip differential the easy way' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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224 = Active Brake Differential, is the method used by TC to simulate an actual LSD.
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TC, Traction Control, is used pretty much exclusively to prevent wheelspin/slip, differentually (providing "virtual" LSD functionality), or equally, resulting from too much engine "DRIVE" torque for roadbed conditions.
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M224 = simulation of an LSD used TC functionality.
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Suggestion
How to check for a Limited Slip Differential The Easy Way!
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Suggestion
The last I knew the only way to test for an LSD is to have the driveshaft free to rotate, one wheel on the ground and using a torque wrench to measure the effort required (~70 ft/lbs..??) to turn the "off-the-ground" wheel.
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TC, Traction Control, is used pretty much exclusively to prevent wheelspin/slip, differentually (providing "virtual" LSD functionality), or equally, resulting from too much engine "DRIVE" torque for roadbed conditions.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The last I knew the only way to test for an LSD is to have the driveshaft free to rotate, one wheel on the ground and using a torque wrench to measure the effort required (~70 ft/lbs..??) to turn the "off-the-ground" wheel.
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34 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Tried performance driving my Carrera 2 with the Traction Control off to see how big a difference it would make. The difference was astonishing. The back end slides out on command, but you have to work a little harder to get it back. With T/C on it builds confidence in your driving.
The only thing better is the Carrera 4, but with the extra weight it hurts acceleration slightly.
The Carrera 2 with T/C is a good compromise.
Did you simply push the TC button momentarily which does not fully deactivate it or did you follow the procedure in the manual to hold down the TC button a few seconds to fully disable TC/ABD, etc. See manual in the TC section for details.
You must mean PSM....
TC, Traction Control, is used pretty much exclusively to prevent wheelspin/slip, differentually (providing "virtual" LSD functionality), or equally, resulting from too much engine "DRIVE" torque for roadbed conditions.
It is therefore my understanding that absent any such longitudnal slippage TC does not come into play, activate.
Stability control, on the other hand, will always keep you from "wagging" the tail.
An interesting aspect of the Porsche stability control is that its onset, individual activation times, is somewhat delayed in order to give the more expert Porsche driver time to "sense" the event and react accordingly.
In my 2001 C4 what I have found, for instance, is that if I feel, sense, a tad bit of overstear and quickly crank in the correction, a bit of counter-stearing, the stability system simply doesn't activate at all. Whereas in my 2001 AWD RX300 the stability control kicks in, typically, before my seat of the pants sensor system is even aware of the "event".
Now that i'm used to the POWER of my TT, I ALWAYS turn off PSM in the dry!! With 4WD and good stickys, you just don't need it, matter-of-fact, I think it's more dangerous with it ON!!!!
Is this for MK1 cars with TC only or does this also apply to MKII cars with PSM? I've been using a momentary push and the car still primes the brake pedal when I'm in high-g states and goes instantly to full ABS if I so much as brush the brake with my left foot.
As far as my research has indicated TC in only available in the MkI C2 WITH a mech LSD. I know this as I have one. TC is not an LSD, it is a separate system. I run with mt TC off when I autocross and track my car. I can feel the LSD working. The only way to verify you have a mechanical LSD it is jack up the rear of the car and rotate one wheel. If the opposite wheel is turning I the same direction, there it a LSD present. If it rotate in the opposite direction you have a open diff.
TC, Traction Control, can be used, and is used, to "simulate" a mechanical LSD.
TC can/will apply, QUICKLY apply, individual braking to whichever, or both, rear wheels having lost roadbed traction. It will also dethrottle the engine, sometimes severely so, in order to help regain traction.
"..I can feel the LSD working..."
Sure, like I can "feel" the front wheel "driving" in my C4.....
For the factory to ship a car with TC(/LSD) and a mechainical LSD also would undoubtedly require a special order.
Or you left the transmission in neutral so the opposite wheel doesn't spin but the driveshaft could spin freely...
Otherwise you not only have a "dead" LSD but also a non-functional rear differential.....
"..in the same direction...."
Sounds as if you have never tried this yourself...
If the driveshaft is locked the only way you can turn one rear wheel is for the opposing wheel to turn in the opposite direction.
The last I knew the only way to test for an LSD is to have the driveshaft free to rotate, one wheel on the ground and using a torque wrench to measure the effort required (~70 ft/lbs..??) to turn the "off-the-ground" wheel.
During my car search I found many 1999's with options 220, 222 and 224, so many that I thought they were bundled.
220 = LSD
224 = Active Brake Differential
222 = Kindel has no answer, but I thinks it is Traction Control because my car has TC and the code.
As a guess, maybe almost half of the '99s have these.
TC with LSD is not a special order. I have seen several of these cars and there are seferal here on Rennlist. Also I have never seen a car with TC and not have LSD, but I suppose it is possible. The reason TC is pared with LSD is that in wet/slippery condition the car is much more likely to slide and the TC help alleviate that. With an open diff this is not as big an issue.
As for my ability to feel the LSD working I can, especially in tight right turns where with an open diff you can get wheelspin. I can power out with losing time burning rubber with the LSD. And as I have also driven many all wheel driver sports car ( lambos, audis), I can say that I can feel the front tire pulling me around turns in certain situations.
You don't know me and what I have experienced in my life but your attitude towards me, is condescending and insulting.
I have done this myself. Jack up the rear, put the trany in neutral ( driveshaft is free to move, spin the wheels.
Your method just checks the amount of locking the LSD has ( how worn it is).
As far as I know the way LSD works is that when the car is in neutral (manual transmission, C2), you spin one wheel and the other should turn the other way.
Jeebuz the hell is wrong with me today. That's what I get typing while walking. Meant to write both spin the same way if the limites slip is present and the manual transmission is in neutral.
Mostly correct, but provided the driveshaft can't turn instead of the opposite wheel.
And it isn't the LSD as such, but the normal action of an open differential.
LSD(***1) basically prevents, up to a point, an unequal L/R, R/L torque distribution.
LSD: Spring "loaded", engaged, frictional clutch pak, ALWAYS engaged. "Limited" (~70-90 ft/lbs) coupling together the inside ends, splined ends, of the opposite rear drive "axles".
Yes, LSD functionality(***2) is ALWAYS included with TC on RWD cars.
(***1) Subject is LSD, Limited Slip Differential, NOT a torque sensing differential
(***2) Differential braking is used to simulate the function of a mechanical LSD at low speeds.
It would be unusual in the extreme to have both TC and a mechanical LSD. One would have to know to turn TC off in order to make use, have used, of the mechanical LSD.
If the transmission is in neutral the differential input drive shaft will often (always? Path of least resistance?) turn instead of the opposite wheel, or along with provided an LSD frictional clutch is in place.
AND...with the input drive shaft in gear, locked, the opposite wheel will ALWAYS rotate in opposition(***) to the wheel you're turning with a torque wrench.
*** After/with the LSD's 70 ft/lb "breakaway" resistance.
It can be NO other way.
Well I'll take the higher road here. Regardless of what you think is foolish, My car does indeed have a mech LSD with TC.
P.S. if you are going to edit my quoted posts, you could at least fix my spelling errors too. :-)
Internet blowhards like you are a dime a dozen. The facts are Porsche offered as an option a LSD ( option code 220) on c2 996 at least on the 99 and maybe a couple of year later then it was only offered on the GT2, GT3 and for one year the 40th anniversary addition.
Again I'm restating know information from Porsche.
M220 is indeed 40% LSD (for use above 45 mph)
M222 and M224 were sold as a single option in MY1999
M222 is Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR) and is electronic traction control (throttles back engine under loss of traction from both wheels on RWD)
M224 is listed as Automatic Limited Slip Differential, but is correctly translated as Automatic Braked Differential - it means below 45mph a spinning wheel will be braked until the two sides on RWD are comparable taking into account steering angle etc.
I am finished on this topic with you and I won't waste any more time trying to convince you of something you have already decided is true.
My '99 C2 included the TC as an option and I was told that TC was used to implement LSD functionality.
The fact of the matter is that if you have TC, or even PSM, then you have a "simulated" LSD function. Note by any means concluding that you also have a mechanical LSD but that remains to be proven as it is highly unlikely in a standard 996/997.
I see the problem...
Option 220 is NOT an LSD but is a locking differential.
M220 = ZF style locking, torque "sensing", differential with NO preload. Lack of pre-load prevents interference with..M224
M222 = TC, Traction Control.
M224 = simulation of an LSD used TC functionality.
M221 = ZF style differential WITH Preload, incompatible with M222/M224.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
