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YOUR RESEARCHTracking a 996
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Install x51 oil pan, 3rd rad and upgraded
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have installed the X51 oil pan, 3rd rad and upgraded to PSS9 suspension this year from M030.
Leading evidence: 'Install x51 oil pan, 3rd rad and upgraded' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Install x51 oil pan, 3rd rad and upgraded' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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My 996 has been used exclusively on the track for the past 4 years.
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Suggestion
Maybe it's because I came from a cup car and shift hard, but I'm about to replace 2nd and 3rd for the second time......
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Suggestion
996 engines may be more fragile than the 993/964 ones, but those engines grenade also, and the cost to rebuild a 964 engine can be as much or more than replacing a 996 engine.
Replace alignment (specifically camber) more while the car is cornering
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Suggestion
What happens, because of the higher grip, the car exhibits more body roll, thus changing the alignment (specifically camber) more while the car is cornering.
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Suggestion
996 engines may be more fragile than the 993/964 ones, but those engines grenade also, and the cost to rebuild a 964 engine can be as much or more than replacing a 996 engine.
Replace alignment (specifically camber) more while the car is cornering
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Suggestion
What happens, because of the higher grip, the car exhibits more body roll, thus changing the alignment (specifically camber) more while the car is cornering.
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I need to get into a 911 and prefer the modern 996 over the 993/964. I would track the car just 3 or 4 days a year.
Do you guys have any concerns about tracking a 996?
I've read all the info about IMS & RMS probs and I wasn't too worried and happy to take a small risk. (All cars have problems anyway.)
But then I heard that Porsche recommends against putting slicks on a 996 due to the wet/dry sump issues. Not sure if this is true.
Then my local porsche mechanic suggested not to track a 996 but buy a 993 or 964 instead.
What do you guys think?
If I was too lose the 996 engine, can you drop in the later version engines with the real dry sump?
if you look at the pca website.... in the 996 Q&A section, somewhere in there, I read that the oil starvation issue on the m96 engine is a non issue... Noone (or at least PCA) has hard evidence of blown engine due to oil starvation. As suggested on the website, it is just a myth. But, Porsche will not honor warranty with slicks on the track.... I dont even think Porsche will honor warranty on a GT3 if they know that it was on the track.
With that said.... I put an x51 oil pan on.
BTW there's always accusump, but for 3-4 DE/year.... I wouldnt sweat it.
you can run R compounds. IIRC they are not considered slicks.
To me, slicks = Michelin Race tires.
Plenty of people run 996s in POC and there's even a spec class.
Most that know me from my early days here are aware of my tracking in a 996 (and not my GT3 or Turbo as those are made for the track). I tracked my wife's CAB for quite some time. All we added were RoWM030, rollbar, GT3 seats and harnesses. Tires were were always high performance street tires that you can really push on track (S02, PS2). We've had that CAB for almost 8 years now and it was tracked VERY HARD for 3 of those years and was a daily driver for many of the years with now over 85K miles. She still looks and runs in immaculate shape. Not a sniff of any issues other than replacing a water pump, AOS, and coolant expansion tank.
If I knew then what I know now, I would just add a couple items to help with the track. Mostly it would include the the baffled X51 sump pan and the 3rd radiator. Quickest way to grenade one of these motors is to either starve it of oil or run it too hot.
Thanks guys .. you've sold me on the 996 .. I prefer the 996 anyway so that's good news for me.
Might take a week or two to clear out my current car, then I'll post pics when I pick up my new 996
Actually you can get heat into the tires. They just won't work properly (load and deflection) with the stock suspension and all the rubber (lack of monoball pieces everywhere) the car has. It is very important to match you tires with your suspension and setup. What many people fail to realize is that tires are part of the suspension and have a spring rate.
That's a good question ... I would have thought that if the tyres are sliding sideways then the tyres are going to get warmed up.
Then if you can slide the tyres sideways with soft OEM suspension and well balanced race suspension, then what's the difference from a heat perspective?
You will heat into the tires quicker by getting moving FAST in a straight line and braking. That side to side crap is to get debris off the tires not to warm them up.
I have tracked my 2001 C2 996 Cab since new. This is season 10 for it and all track days have been DE..., no racing. Car has 80km (approx 50k miles) and I estimate a total of 20km on the track at the end of this season.
I have installed the X51 oil pan, 3rd rad and upgraded to PSS9 suspension this year from M030. I now run Yoko Advan AD07 tires...good in wet as well and will go to AD08 for the next set. I have previously used Continentals, Michelins, Goodyears, Kumhos and the Yokos grip and wear very well in comparison to others.
I suggest you only modify for longevity untl you gain some experience...I discovered that the car was WAY better than I was for a number of years (and it still is).
I do make sure I have a "humbling session" every year. This is a pro racer driving my car with me as a passenger...makes me understand my true capabilities.
Have fun!
My understanding is that a stock suspension is too "compliant" for slicks (or even r-compound DOT tires). What happens, because of the higher grip, the car exhibits more body roll, thus changing the alignment (specifically camber) more while the car is cornering. Because of this, you'll get fewer runs out of r-compound tires (because you'll cord the outside edge) than with an upgraded suspension. Throwing out $1,500 tires rapidly gets real old, real fast.
Bingo part two! Just take a look at the mistakes that the VW Cup made going with sticky tires and stock sets ups. These kids hammer into slow corners all sideways and the cars just hop like rabbits (no pun) through the slow corners as the stock set up just gives up, tucks under and, boing, boing, boing we go. Stupid. All a marketing dept idea instead of common sense from the racing dept at VOA. The same thing happens with half way measures and 996's. Because slicks are cheaper then a full blown racing set up ($10K and up), people try the slicks and wonder why they get uneven heating and rip the crap out of the tires after one day.
They are a proven platform with few issues but, they aren't as fun or as fast as the more modern 996 platform.
I've been heavily racing my 3.4 996 for a year now in 2 series with somewhere in the vicinity of 80 hours of race time. No issues to date. I've installed the X51 oil pan, a 3rd radiator, and occasionally I even change the oil though it's usually 4 weekend in between (Mobil 1, 15-50)....
Synchros, on the other hand, have been an issue for me. Maybe it's because I came from a cup car and shift hard, but I'm about to replace 2nd and 3rd for the second time......
You can't get enough negative camber in the suspension to use the tires. Plus, the stock suspension is too soft with too much body roll to really work the tires up to proper temperatures. If might be doable on a track with lots of straights and hard braking - but that doesn't sound like a road course
Besides, even if you could get maximum grip, you are likely to break something in the stock suspension with the heavy G-load.
-td
The track car that I have for sale now had engine oil pressure issues before I owned it..Enough to scatter an engine.
What makes the biggest differences to these engines is G forces, once real suspensions and sticky tires are added oil pressure issues begin. After I enhanced the oil system, included the accu-sump kit and went full external with oil filtration and -12 hoses.
We see the exact same characteristics time and time again with track cars and failed engines from oil starvation. I have determined that engine oil temperatures are elevated to a point that proves to be a catalyst for making the issues worse... Its not uncommon for a tracked M96 engine to see an oil temp of 260F, if that engine uses a generic oil then the engine will probably be compromised. I found that the choice of oil made a huge difference, especially on the track.
It takes the right preparation to make a 996 a dedicated track car, once the proper issues are addressed they can be just as reliable as JR mentions above.
Many would and I wish I could post it.. But the topic is way too sensitive and controversial topic for public consumption. Been there done that and won't ever do it again.
Yep. Charles and I gathered data together and I did quite a bit of his dirty work..
The difference is he'll take the time to argue with people about a battle that can't be won, I won't :-)
Thats great info.
A track? What's a track? Oh oops, the island powers that be took that word and land out of our vocabulary and life a few years back. I forgot, never mind
If you dont mind losing the instrument cluster you can. Not sure of the fab work from a eng/trans bolting up standpoint (probably not much IMO) but all the electrical will be a nightmare if you try to make everything work like before.
Not on Oahu. Maui has at least a drag track. Maui might have a road course but I'm not sure. The Barbers Point track here on Oahu USED TO HAVE aspahlt road track, drag strip, dirt bike track and oval dirt track for cars. The track that closed did have instructing guys offering help.
I think even the little cone games in the big parking lot of Aloha Stadium got closed down. I also think the game is to have an unmarked enough car to be with a guy when he breaks 100mph so that the police can have the car since one 30 over or 100 is automatic confiscation of vehicle. It helps when the clowns put a 45mph section on a 60 mph H-3 hwy when the section can easily be done at over 100mph just rolling down the hill. Retards acting corrupt rings a bell. Some guys have some major bucks tied up in cars for track and strip
My 996 has been used exclusively on the track for the past 4 years. X51 oil pan seems to take care of the oiling issue pretty well, and the third radiator allows it to handle the Texas heat. I don't think you really need the third radiator for DE's, but it's not a bad idea. 996 engines may be more fragile than the 993/964 ones, but those engines grenade also, and the cost to rebuild a 964 engine can be as much or more than replacing a 996 engine. These cars are very fast, and very honest handling track cars.
Someone needs to buy Jake's car either as a DE car, or better yet, complete the transformation and make it a Spec996!
Really!? I would have thought a new crate 996 or 964 engine would be pretty similar .. or perhaps the 964 would be even less without all the water-cooled systems stuff.
I've had two inquiries today from people wanting to make it into a spec 996. I'd like to keep it, but I have too many cars already and my Wife wants to build an LSR early 911.
I've not shopped it myself, but I know from others who have had to do a rebuild that a fully rebuilt 964 engine from at least one very well respected builder goes for $16k. 964 engines do grenade. So do other engines.
