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YOUR RESEARCHDoes anyone know who makes this wing.
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Fill with ice, thus cooled
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As one of the folks here mentioned IHRA records and another mentioned ice, back then the normal for a drag car was to utilize a cool can for the copper or aluminum fuel line to be coiled in and filled with ice, thus cooled.
Fill blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb
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Suggestion
Finally, after all ideas for more speed were tossed around, one of the engineers got the wild idea of taking bags of cubed ice and filling the blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb to get the intake air juuuuuuuuust a bit colder.
Leading evidence: 'Fill with ice, thus cooled' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I think it's because you used the word "force" which can be confused with super/turbo charging.
Fill blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb
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Suggestion
Finally, after all ideas for more speed were tossed around, one of the engineers got the wild idea of taking bags of cubed ice and filling the blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb to get the intake air juuuuuuuuust a bit colder.
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Suggestion
Class P-001( titled sports car general servicing and repair) changes as new models are released.
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Suggestion
There are about 20 different Hands-on classes from P-001 to P-95 and they all are constantly changing plus some are added and some get obsolete.
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Fill blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb
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Suggestion
Finally, after all ideas for more speed were tossed around, one of the engineers got the wild idea of taking bags of cubed ice and filling the blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb to get the intake air juuuuuuuuust a bit colder.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
As one of the folks here mentioned IHRA records and another mentioned ice, back then the normal for a drag car was to utilize a cool can for the copper or aluminum fuel line to be coiled in and filled with ice, thus cooled.
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Suggestion
There was an old saying that I have used many times in the old days of HotRodding cars and the quest for eventually setting a couple IHRA World Records by doing things that had never been before," If the results differ from the theory, believe the results and invent a new theory".
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Suggestion
So, if you are comparing the inducted air to the engine bay, you would use ambient as a comparitor to the air which is not being inducted into the engine bay.
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40 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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I've looked and didn't see any markings at all so far. I plan to meet with the P.O. soon, and will be sure to ask if she knows anything about it or if there is anything in the service folder I'm picking up.
I have a 1999 Cab with that wing on it. While it does look good, It does not force cool air into the intake or engine compartment as well as the standard dynamic spoiler. I have a 1999 Coupe that I compare it with since I have done some custom intakes and heat shields and compaired temps with various intakes, heat shields, wings, ect. But it does look good so it will stay..lol
Well yea that's one of the things the dynamic spoiler does.
1 . reduces lift on the rear for high speed stability
2. reduces drag for higher speed
3. increases fuel efficiency
4. forces ambient air into engine compartment to promote cooling
5. forces air into engine for combustion
I think it's because you used the word "force" which can be confused with super/turbo charging. If anything, some of the fancy Porsche wings do redirect air into the snorkel. (I've seen some that have side vents to capture air and push in the engine compartment) If you look at the belly of a Porsche's rear air vent, the snorkel port is the only way air is inputing; that is, for the throttle body. The other port is for the purge fan. Of course, I'm there are many who have removed these items to promote more air flow.
Personally, some of these non-tested, aftermarket spoilers can work against the normal flow of low pressure air and therefore, redirect air away from the vent, which could be counterproductive to performance. But I'm not sure any of the spoilers are going to promote better engine cooling. That's the job of the front radiators, heat diffusers, and purge fan.
Trust me when I said "forces" air into the engine for combustion, I in no way meant Turbo/Supercharging, think of it more like Ram Air or Cowl Induction..
Porsche states and my tests confirm that the factory spoiler "up" does improve engine compartment cooling and air intake air cooling via ambient air pressure increase.
That particular fixed spoiler runs the intake temperature about 10 degrees higher than the factory spoiler in the "up" position, and takes a lot longer to cool off after a hot soak.
I apologize in advance for being a noodge, but improving cooling of the intake air by increasing the air pressure is incorrect. I don't know the aerodynamics of the situation, but in all cases(on planet earth) increasing the air pressure will increase the air temperature through adiabatic heating effect.
boyles law: PV=NRT where P is pressure and T is temperature, all other things being equal, to maintain the equation, as pressure rises if Volume, Molecular constant remain the same, then temperature will rise.
Also, 'via ambient' is logically inconsistent. Ambient is a relationship to something that is nearby. So, if you are comparing the inducted air to the engine bay, you would use ambient as a comparitor to the air which is not being inducted into the engine bay.
e.g. "The air inducted to the engine as a result of the wing is at a lower/higher temperature than the ambient air which is not inducted into the engine bay in a car without the wing."
again - sorry, but something else is at work there.
Doc, if I pour a bag of ice into my Porsche's snorkel, will the air going into the throttle body be cooler regardless of air pressure? A poor man's cold air intake?
Ok, scratch that... it will melt and that could mean excess water in my airbox which could lead to ... oh my... lead to... eeekk... HYDROLOCK!!!!
While your theory's may be technically correct, the spoiler "up" does increased air pressure that does create increase air flow that does improve cooling. While something else could very well be at play here, the results are what they are.
There was an old saying that I have used many times in the old days of HotRodding cars and the quest for eventually setting a couple IHRA World Records by doing things that had never been before," If the results differ from the theory, believe the results and invent a new theory".
From the Porsche P-001
Also from Porsche P-001 There are more references of this function that spells these benefits out more clearly, if I can find them in my heap of technical info.
I've always wondered about how cooling is possible given the design of the rear deck lid. We all know that there are only 2 primarily vents for air - 1. snorkel/airbox sealed intake and, 2. purge(scavenging) fan (which pulls air in when temp rise beyond 176F?)
And so, my question is... where is this higher pressure air being forced in? The lower part of the rear deck lid is still shut. When the spoiler lifts, are there other vents that air can get in or is it forced in at the gap?
lolz!
In the 1960s, Studebaker was struggling to stay in business. As a last resort, they reached out to Andy Granatelli for some kind of hype to get the flagging company selling Studes again. He came up with the idea of taking the Avanti(their most public offering) out to Bonneville flats and trying to break the speed record for production coupes. It was circa 1963-ish?
Studebaker strapped on a centrifugal supercharger, made by McCulloch(later nee Paxton), and they got bigger carb, different gears, etc to make up something called the R3/SC Avanti. Technically, one could go down to the Stude dealer and order one up, and it would arrive in a few months after the massaging by Granatelli. I think they sold all of 26 or something.
Anyway, back at the Salt Flats, in the middle of June, the hotted up Avanti was detonating like mad. They had avgas in it, they tricked around with the timing, jets, blower pulleys, and did everything they could to get that tool faster. The engine was running in the redline temp on each pass, and I guess they blew a couple engines along the way.
Finally, after all ideas for more speed were tossed around, one of the engineers got the wild idea of taking bags of cubed ice and filling the blower intake, the trasfer tube, and around the carb to get the intake air juuuuuuuuust a bit colder.
It worked! After they accounted for all the ice cooling, and turned the timing back a few deg they finally set some kind of land speed record, all the while the car was flowing like a 'ho on the rag all the way down the run.
Truth - stranger than fiction sometimes.
Awww... day late, dollar short. So much for the patent idea. Guess it's back to work for me!
Next question, if I put melted crisco... oh .. never mind
hahaha
Seriously, loved that story!!!
A couple of questions from all of this spoiler talk.
There must be at least 30 different configurations of rear wing/spoilers for the 996 cars.
Has there ever been an actual study or comparison of the best results from all of those designs?
ie, down force, aerodynamics and fresh air intake?
I am sure such a study could create a spirited thread here.
Some of the comments here discuss different air temperature coming in to engine bay and CAI snorkle. I know Chrysler or Ford, I can't remember which, spent alot of money incorporating the a/c system into the supercharger to produce more horsepower.
As many threads here have been controversial to aftermarket intake systems inducting warm engine bay air, it is paramount to cool air and fuel to achieve the most horsepower. As one of the folks here mentioned IHRA records and another mentioned ice, back then the normal for a drag car was to utilize a cool can for the copper or aluminum fuel line to be coiled in and filled with ice, thus cooled.
Having this Carrera Wing, it seems to create enough down force to stabilize the car on the track, but I have nothing to compare it too. Not at all sure on the efficiency or air intake.
On a side note, when I installed the factory Porsche Aero/GT3 bumper, the installation instructions had bold print,
Do not install on vehicle without a fixed rear wing
That's Porsche internal code for: "Let's see if we can get more money out of this sucker."
I agree, that would be a great study to read up on if it's conducted by a retable source.
Sigh,,,
The cooling of the fuel lines is to prevent fuel vaporization. Really, had nothing to do with the 'power' of the engine production aside from the engine shutting down if the fuel in the lines vaporized due to high temps, and very very low vapor pressure of the fuel concoction in use.
To be a complete *** again, one wants cool(cold) air because it's more dense, but hot fuel(just below vapor pressure) to atomize for optimal internal combustion.
and I'm done here.
Doc
You sound like part of the MSM, yes it was also used to prevent vapor lock, but last I knew, the carburetor sent the fuel into the intake manifold to be vaporized before the intake valve opened and the mixture of air and vaporized fuel would then be sucked into the cylinder when the piston was on the intake (down) stroke.
Manufacturers of intake manifolds went from cast iron to aluminum to keep things cooler, now we know there are all types of material used in intake manufacturing to keep the mixture cool.
Just saying
Just put your spoiler up and drive really fast backwards, that will scoop all kinds of air into the engine bay. Hey...just a suggestion. Just keep your snorkle covered with a baggie so it doesn't ingest something.
[QUOTE=b3freak;14490046]I've always wondered about how cooling is possible given the design of the rear deck lid. We all know that there are only 2 primarily vents for air - 1. snorkel/airbox sealed intake and, 2. purge(scavenging) fan (which pulls air in when temp rise beyond 176F?)
And so, my question is... where is this higher pressure air being forced in? The lower part of the rear deck lid is still shut. When the spoiler lifts, are there other vents that air can get in or is it forced in at the g
If you look at the picture in the post above, you can see the extended spoiler as it rises it also moves back some on the front edge uncovering the ducts to the engine compartment and engine air intake. The arrows show the high pressure area created underneath the louvered lid and is also aided by the bellows at the rear of the spoiler.
I have verified the temperatures with spoiler up and spoiler down and the fact is that the spoiler up promotes cooling of both the intake air and engine compartment air.
Geez, I get in more trouble than i want with my selection of words,"force" vs " pressure increase" and "theory " vs "law"
To explain more clearly what's happening, I'll give it a shot. While Boyles law is correct in that an increase in pressure DOES produce an increase in temperature, the other things at play here in my "theory" are the thermodynamics of convection and conduction that have a BIGGER effect of the air temperature.
The aerodynamics create a higher pressure that while DOES increase temperature also increase air flow which REDUCES temperature through convection and conduction. As air moves across all hot components IE the air ducts,air box, hoses,cables, the engine it's self, it removes heat and transfers it out the bottom of the car. the slight temperature increase due to pressure increase is overruled by the decrease in temperature by convection and conduction (ambient air flow).
+1
I think your prior post were spot on, maybe just phrasing as increasing volume and rate , say like cfm, would have been easier to agree with. ie, the ram air or cowl put it into context well
Outstanding. Well done, except for "it's self". any piston pilot knows that forcing air in the engine slightly raises the temp at the inlet, but does more cooling by greatly increased airflow through the engine fins, and down out the bottom bay(cowl).
Ok I'm out - again.
Thanks, I'm glad you're partially agreeing with me.
All I have been saying is that the Factory dynamic spoiler in the up position,reduces rear end lift, reduces drag, promotes engine cooling, promotes intake air .
Now where was I?
LOL
To get back to the different wings/spoilers.
Does anyone know if fabricators, race shops or Porsche themselves ever documented testing of different designs.
There are so many, so different, Taco, GT3, Carrera, Ducktail, Getty, Techart etc. Some with air scoops on the sides, some on top and some not all.
There is money spent on advertising, but I never actually saw any data.
I've always wondered if I could take off my MK2 wing and keep the GT3 front bumper. Guessing that if the spoiler deploys at 75 then not driving over that speed would be fine
This is from the Porsche Instructor-led Hands-on class Workbook. Class P-001.These hands-on class workbooks I don't think are anywhere in POSES that I can remember. POSES deals more with diagnostics, testing, removal procedure, disassembly. The Porsche Instructor-led class workbooks like P-001 deal more with function , operation, theory,specification.
We got one of those from each different class we went to. I have boxes of them. Class P-001( titled sports car general servicing and repair) changes as new models are released. That particular workbook only has 996 986 and 996 Turbo.
There are about 20 different Hands-on classes from P-001 to P-95 and they all are constantly changing plus some are added and some get obsolete.
LMAO...Don't sweat it..remember you have the whole internet at your disposal !! ...
...and if ya can't find it by googling, and you think I have it , just ask !!
