99-00 996 VS 2004 S2000

Hey guys, Ive been in the market for a 996 for some time now. I've driven quite a few but no eye catchers as of yet. I love the way the 996 drives and handles. Recently I came across a 2004 Honda S2000 for $20,000 with 19k miles mint condition. I know this is a porsche forum, and i'm comparing apples to oranges. But i have to say the S2000 looks really nice for 20k I havent driven the S2000 yet, but any of you guys owned or driven a S2000? I am 6'4 in height, will i have problems with comfortability. In the 996 i am very comfortable. The 3.6 996's are out of my price range right now, and i really wanted to buy 2002 or up, so i thought i jump into a Honda for the summer and just wait to see if the prices drop for the 2002 996's in a year or so. Thanks.

You really are comparing comparing apples and oranges. The S2000 is a great car but is not a 996. You either want a Porsche (and the costs/issues that come with it) or want a great and reliable roadster (and the costs/issues that come with it). Prices are always dropping for both cars (neither are collectable).

Look at the Vette - the C6 is pretty much indestructable and out perform the S2000 in every way . You will need to come up with some more cash though. 20K will buy you a nice Honda but if you are worried about cash stay away from Porsche. They are not for the thin wallet. If you want to play you have to pay. The C6 is the bang for the buck hard hitter. I'd still rather drive my C4S though. Drive them all - buy the one that most makes sence for you.

Paging Ben Choi...Mr. Choi, your assistance is requested in the 996 forum.

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Drive what you have now and get the 911 when you can afford it. You will never regret buying the 911. Ever. As an option, you might as well lease a brand new S2000 for a year or two and then get the 911. Just a thought. -td

WOW - being 6'6" myself, I could not even think about buying an S2000. Think Bear in a Clown Shoe. I think you would be very happy with a 996 purchase. Take your time and find that right car. C.

+1 I'm 6" 3". Tried to get into a friend of mines. Made it half way, then decided I didn't really need to get in after all !! I bought my first pcar, (2002 996) 6 month's back. Previously owned many others, BMW, Corvettes, etc. Love my 996 !!!! I was and continue to be however, confused as to how many of the 996's vary in the amount of leg room ???

I wouldn't look in my garage and smile if I owned an S2000! The smile factor is very important to me in picking a car. Porsche has it in spades, Honda, nope.

I have had a S2000. They are a blast to drive, probably more fun than the Porsche in that to make it go you really have to work that gear box. But in no way does it impart the feeling of confidence you get driving a 911. The rear end on the S2000 does have an annoying habit of breaking away from the unsuspecting driver. They are not a good car for an inexperienced driver. From a comfort point of view, there is absolutely no comparison. You have no room in a S2000. You are snug as a bug in there. And they are noisy. Don't waste money on a good sound system, you will never hear it. But other than that, they are a Honda and reliable. I had mine for two years and never really had to do anything to it. But for $20,000 you can come close to finding some nice '99 911's. You could probably have mine for not too much more. But as others have said, the Porsche is going to cost more to maintain.

I'm sure Ben will chime in but I'll thow in my $.02. The S2K is fun when the engine is on boil but below VTEC engagement it's very civic like in it's power delivery (I'm sure the superchager on Ben's helped with this). The handling is light and entertaining but it's twichy at the limit (i've driven one at an autocross). All in all a nice car, but not in the same "bulletproof" handling league as a Boxster and waaay down on power from a 996 IMHO.

wrong place.......

Damn, I got paged. You come to Rennlist, a Porsche enthusiast forum, you're going to get 90% BS and then you'll get 10% truth favoring the 911. Same deal on the s2ki.com forum. For all the complaints about weight here, the S2000 makes the 911 feel like a damn hog. It's a go-kart. If you enjoy this kind of action, the S2000 is on target. The M96 is an engine that's clearly bigger (~1.4 liters), but I also feel you need to wind it out to get anywhere and the same deal goes for the S2000. An aggressive minivan momma can keep up with either car 0-30mph from a street light. To be honest, if you can get over driving a Honda, then clearly the S2000 is the more fun, visceral ride. It's pure sports car. If you want the brand prestige and want in on the 40+ year car club, then the Porsche is clearly for you because there is no substitute for that quirky, rear engined design with that VW bug like shape. I have much more faith in the reliability of the Honda than the Porsche, especially the MK1s. You'll rarely, if ever, read about oil leaks or outright failures like you do with the Carrera engines. id est, there is no such thing as a factory within the factory that rebuilds engines over at Honda's S2000 plant. You can supercharge the S2000's engine all day and it's bulletproof. Really. M96? Not so sure. Both cars are special, both represent a great value, and I personally love the way both look done up right. Bottom-line: Go test drive both.

Too small for you. I am 6' and had a 2000 M Roadster back in 2000. It is amazing how much a little more room will make you feel. After a while I felt like a sardine wedged in that M Roadster. The S2000 is very similar in size. Being that tall, you don't need an S2000 period, whether you're looking at a 911 or an F-150 in comparison to the S2000. Just my $0.02.

I get in and out of, and drive the S2000 on a regular basis on the job. I am 5'8" and believe me when I say it IS tight in these cars. Personal opinion (coming from a 996 owner): Power is unimpressive, shifter sucks, interior space and comfort sucks. Could be a fun car though, for those who have not yet tasted a dose of P.................

I'm actually sort of in the same boat after owning a bunch of M3s and 944 turbos and such. My only hold back on the Honda is the fact that it's a convertible so not all tracks want to allow you on w/out a roll bar, and the fact that it's a buzzy little impractical car. Somehow it feels far more substantial than most other Japanese cars though, and the first one I've considered for a track car. Funny thing, I didn't like Hondas before spending some time in a Type R on track, mmmm delicious! Ahmet

s2000 is a classic sporstscar, I bet you wouldn't be disappointed, that said, the carrera is one of the best GT(grand touring) cars in the industry (possibly ever made). End of the day reality: drive them both and buy the one you "must" have.

I had some fun in one in LA, they are a blast. Ben gave a lot of good advice, knows his sh*t with these, and while my friend whom I was performing this valuable free research for did not buy it, I think it's a great car, good looking, and very high quality feel. I just couldn't drive one each day in NY or LA, but that is way more traffic than most people have to deal with most places. I think it would be a perfect weekend/track car. It sounds like you have two race bikes under the hood. I'm sure the run costs are a fraction of the 996, especially if you spend time on forums like this and get to moding and maintaining religiously. However as Ben pointed out when I asked him about his, this is a 120bhp per liter NA motor, it's not going to be totally drama fere. But compared to other motors with anywhere near that specific output it might as well be a microwave in terms of reliability. I didn't really make too many practical observations, I was ear to ear grin though. Drive one of each. See if you fit, you can't go wrong either way.

the s2000 that car was one of my choices as a first car...it was actually on top of my list. i enjoyed the little suckers agility/the sharp looking interior/the roadster aspect/good looks/etc...but i couldnt pull the trigger on it as much as i wanted to simply because i didnt fit ...sitting in the drivers seat pushed back to the MAX my legs were pinned under the steering wheel (im 6'2) man i would have if i could have...i agree with the others on going out and test driving the best car for you

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your modding game is TIGHT like a mother f'n tiger son

I've owned 2 S2000s, a 2001 and a 2004 (first one was stolen) for a total of 5 years ownership. If you can fit in it the S2000 is by far and away the best bang for your buck sports car and is track ready. I still miss mine, I had to sell it to get a backseat when we had our baby. I concur with all of Ben's comments. The car is incredibly fun, good looking, well built (built in Japan at the NSX factory), the motor is incredibly reliable and the transmission is second to none. Both cars are very quick but make their power in very different ways. Cost of ownership will be MUCH cheaper for the S2000. Keep in mind that the 996 will cost you a lot more for the same service/tire/repairs than the Honda. I will PM you with some more comments that I posted for another person weighing the two cars. Bottom line, get some seat time in both and chose the one you like best. Andy

i have a s2000, still do. at your ht, it will be very very tight fit, if you fit at all. the car is very buzzy, thus many ppl dont like it. it's very inexpensive to run. cost next to nothing to maintain. drive both, the cars are very different. one will grab you more.

I've owned a s2k before I got my c4 cab. An excellent high revving engine (closest thing to a F1 car for that money!) and great fun to drive but be careful not to lose the back end! Boot room is better but you only have 2 seats in the honda. I'm 6'1" and the driving position was good so I recommend you see if the driving position is ideal for your height. Virtually problem free and servicing is low cost. You can have a blast doing after market performance upgrades to it as it relatively easy and cheap. The top is faster to operate compared to the cab. You'll also enjoy hitting the "START" engine button each time you fire it up! No regrets owning the s2k and it will be a good choice as an interim car before your p-car purchase.

I actually have both a 2004 S2000 and a 02 C2... the S is the more agile, the gear box is better.. the 996 has more power, is more comfortable and has the better brakes... in an AutoX the S2000 is faster than a 996, in a larger track the 996 will be faster..

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machu123: Gret topic. Just before I got this 99C2 CAB I had the 2004 S2K, awesome Roadster. Key word Roadster ! (Yes, 2004 and up are best) The 996 is a Sports Car - Two different animals and designed to meet two different goals from what I can tell. If price is keeping you away from the 996 you will enjoy the S2K until you can afford the more expensive car. In fact, driving the S2K for a year or so will lead you to apprecieate the 996 that much more. If I had to downsize I would go back to a Honda anyday. Especially when it comes to cost of ownership and maintenance. 99C2

I actually think the interior quality of the S2000 (fit/finish) is much better than that of your standard option 996. There's just something about Honda interiors where the finish and buttons/switchgear and everything is just quality. The Porsche takes it up another level when you start tweaking it out with full leather, painted/CF consoles, hard back seats, etc. Refreshingly, there really are no options on the S2000. Mechanical summed it up best. It's really best to get feedback from people who have had extensive time in both the 911 and S2000 because each of us will echo each other's comments. The S2000 feels/is a go-kart while the RWD 996 is more of the lightweight GT coupe . Again, if you can get over the romance of the Porsche brand and the 911 lineage, the S2000 is a killer ride for ya. Great fun, a raucous time. I daily drove one for about 4-5 years, but then this was in my early 20s so... don't know how I did it, but I did it with a **** eatin' grin on my face.

They are both great cars. I own a S2000 now and would tell you to make sure you fit. The S2000 is a barebones sports car - almost a go cart. The 911 will feel like a feature equiped car in comparison. They sell the roll bars for the car, but with your size you might need those extra inches in seat travel that the roll bar would take. Good luck!

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I dissagree. The 996 is a GT coupe; big, heavy on luxury features, sloppy suspension . The S2000 is a true open roof sports car: 2-seats, standard LSD, short direct shifting transmission (not cable driven), standard sports seats, remote reservoir shocks (rear), no big heavy radio, etc.

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You said something that's going to rub a lot of people here the wrong way. I like you because people need to learn to handle the truth.

Having owned a MY01 S2000 for 2 years as my daily driver (and echoing the above comments) I would offer the following: When you test drive one, make sure you keep the RPMs above 6K, the car becomes completely alive, the toque-less character of the engine becomes irrelevant. Below 6K the car drives like a RWD civic which is not altogether a bad thing. Fit and finish is very high. The car is very focused on driving only. The passenger literally has nothing. All the HVAC / radio controls are within fingers length from the steering wheel , the shift **** is titanium, the trunk is useless (especially w/ the CD changer, which is mounted in its own steel cage!) and it has a five star side impact rating. HID’s and LSD are standard, the steering wheel is small and the seats are made for the average sized Japanese individual (i.e. not American sized). I’m 5’ 10” 173 lbs. and it was perfect for me. My P-car friend who is 6’ 6” test drove the car and did not fit happily… If Honda built a 2+2 couple version w/ a turbo I would not be on this thread. Test drive both, but my suspicion is that you will not be comfy…

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And thank goodness Honda has not and will never make a turbo S2000 - that goes against everything that is S2000. Turbo lag = lame. But yea, if you're a big dog 6'6" popeye eatin' ****, you best get a bigger car. Even the damn sport seats on the 911 is made for smaller, thinner people.

Hahahaha I agree it would not be good for the “instant” composure of the S2000 but I'm thinking a K23A1 like in the RDX (variable flow turbo.)

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That would be cool, but I'd like to see that turbo application be done on their coupes/sedans in the Acura line-up. And you know I'd be more trusting of Japanese turbos than German turbos. Good to have options, ain't it? Good to be a car fan these days.

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I disagree At just over 3,000 pounds the 996 is very light by todays standards (keep in mind Porsche made it lighter than the 993 and the 964). In standard form it has none of the characteristics you describe (big, heavy on luxury features, sloppy suspension) While it is certainly no Miata or Elise like lightweight it matches up well (overall dimensions, weight, etc) with other sports cars like the C5 Corvette, Ferrari 360/430, Audi R8 etc. I think of a car like the new Nissan GTR, when I think of a Grand Touring car.

I would choose the S2000 just cause it's SO much newer. 99 is going on 10 years old. That said, i don't think you'd fit an S2000 so your better choice would be the 911 Also keep in mind, the S2000 is very slow compared to the 911. If you're looking for car with performance, the Carrera is the only way to go. I'd still recommend a newer 911.

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This is the last guy I'd go to for car wisdom especially along this front.

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0.2 sec 0-60 slower than the 996 mkII is very slow? The S2000 has the same 0-60 as a tip '99 Carrera. How do you define "performance"? The S2000 has a better suspension and handles better than a stock 996. Ray S: I was referring not to the 996 curb weight, but rather to its long list of luxury features as "heavy" otherwise the 996 is just "big" in dimensions. I also think the Corvette, Ferrari, R8, Lambo are bloated cars. Perhaps "super cars" is the better term for those. The GTR is definitely a GT car. I think it is easy to argue that anything with a backseat is a GT car.

'04 S2000 0-60 5.9 secs 240 Bhp - 160 Lb-ft Torque Curb Weight: 2835 lbs. '99 996 Carrera: 0-60 4.9 secs 296 HP - 258 Lb-ft torque Curb Weight: 2901 lbs. SLOW compared to a 911. Better to compare this car against a Boxster. 911 is in a much higher class.

I hate to do this, but since y'all are bringing up the 0-60 stuff... the S2000's figure is pretty conservative whereas the Carrera's is a wee bit aggressive. The 996 Carrera is faster in the straights, I can personally attest to that, but the S2000 does have go power with a 5.3 - 5.5 0-60 time or more like a 14-sec flat 1/4 mile time. But, again, this is not where either car shines. It's feel of the car where you get to fully experience the differences in design philosophy manifested in real world driving fun.

I agree!!! I've had both as well.

I am looking to get an 06+ s2000 in a few years to replace my 986 until I have kids at which point it will probably be 997 time. I don't know why but there is something about s2000s that is just intoxicating to me. Btw, I am 5'8, 135 lbs and I thought it was fairly snug in there but in a good way. Much smaller inside than my Boxster. I couldn't see an individual much larger than myself being comfortable in such a small car. I agree with the others however: if you are stretching yourself to buy the Porsche, get the cheaper S2000, enjoy its much lower operating cost, then buy a 996/997 in a few years with the money that you saved.

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You crazy kid, you'll have more luck selling that story in the Street Racing forum on S2Ki. The S2K is a fun little sports car but it's no where in the same power league as a 996. It's a 14sec (or high 13 sec car at best) vs the 996 which is a low 13 sec car. That's a big difference (bus lengths at the end of a 1/4 mile). Furthermore, anyone who has ever driven the S2K hard knows to get that time requires a brutal clutch drop to bring the engine up to VTEC right away. In fact, so many kids were breaking diffs with this little procedure that Honda put a clutch delay in the later AP2 cars so people would burn up the clutch rather than blow the diff. An aggressive minivan can embarass a S2k at a light but a 996 has plenty of torque down low to pull away without all the drama that you need in an S2000. Don't get me wrong, I think the S2000 is a blast to drive at an autocross or when you've got the engine on boil. However, driving around town or trying to scoot into a hole in traffic is a real drag from 1-6k. LOL a Corvette is no supercar, it's a sports car just like the 996. You used the specific terms "big, heavy on luxury features, sloppy suspension" to describe these cars. Sorry, but I could not disagree more.

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Come on Ben, please describe the process necessary to eek a 5.3 0-60 out of an S2k? (It's painful just to think about it) Better still, how many bus lengths separate a 13.2 sec car vs a 14.0 sec car at the end of the 1/4? I've got plenty of seat time in both cars and the 996 is just in a different league.

I have raced both head to head, (last year in Mexico) and the 996 pulls away from a stop and from a roll everytime, the 996 in 3rd and the S2000 in 2nd gear the S2000 pulls away slowly until the Porker gets back into the 5krmp range..The 996 is faster but will not smoke the S2k like for exaple a GT2 will smoke a civic. Just for the record one of my mexican friends has an 02 986S and we did the same test and for his surprise (and mine) the S2k was always half car ahead until we hit 90-100mph, at those speeds the 986S and the 996 keep pulling like trains while the small 2.2L loses its battle against friction

Why don't you get a Boxster? Best of both worlds: good roadster and a Porsche; you get a newer car for the same money as a MK1 996 and don't compromise with a Honda if you really want a Porsche.

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He's too big for a Boxster OR S2000... Although, Boxster S > S2000 IMO. S2000's are great for the track or windy roads when you can keep the revs above 6k. But, for normal everyday driving it's an uninspiring car. Just my opinion of it.

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He will fit in a Boxster with the tall man lowering bracket on the seat.

Just took some shots of the CR this afternoon. Sorry for the poor quality pics from my camera phone.

Cool Honda.

I think the S2000 in black is a SHARP looking car. I am a bit biased. Boxster S might be fun, didn't they make a kit for taller people?

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That's a bit derogatory don't you think? Go post a picture of your car on F-chat and enjoy the same "Cool Porsche" replies. There is always someone with a more expensive car than you, no need to lord yours over someone else.

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You'll find that attitude more common with Turbo owners.

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He's kinda weird like that - you just gotta accept him for who he is on here. He seems to think because he drives a $60K 2001 Turbo (supercar he says) somehow he's in a diff club. Pls. WHAHAHA Ray, we ex/current S2000/911 owners have made it clear the 996 Carrera is faster in the straights. Never argued that. But it's fast enough in a straightline that if the S2000 got even the slightest jump, it'll take a LONG time well into very illegal speeds (100MPH+++) for the 996 to overtake the S2000. This is where the on glossy mag paper numbers get hit with the reality stick. Trust me. It'd be cool of me to say yea my Porsche is way faster, but alas it is not. Back in my younger days when I had less to lose, I did this run with my friends on the hwys here. I learned quick that anything that goes 0-60mph under 6 seconds is a fast car that you can't take for granted. And on the auto-x course or track, it's even closer since it's mostly driving skills that come to play here. I know of some very skilled Seattle S2000 hobby racers like yourself that do very well in their stock power S2000s on some better tires like Toyos. Auto-x... no question the S2000 is in its element here as well.

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LOL I know someone like that in real life. I left him multiple times in the canyon while I was in my E46 M3. I guess a fast car != a fast driver eh?

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Yup. Which is why bench racing is so silly.

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Originally Posted by arr0gant View Post Also keep in mind, the S2000 is very slow compared to the 911. No, I actually meant what I said, cool Honda. I do think they look cool. I think Cosmos car looks great and I was paying a compliment to him. I really think this forum is sinking. Not sure whats up with you fellas and I don't know what all all the attitude is for, I simply gave my opinion on S2000's v. '99 Carrera. I would take a 2004 S2000 OVER a '99 Carrera if I was only spending $20k, as I stated. People simply don't act this way over on the Turbo forum. I'm not really sure why my opinion stirred up so many lame comments.

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I challenge you to find where I said I think my car is a supercar. I do however believe it was when it was new back in 2001. I can back that up with many reviews and articles that call it a supercar. I'm also not too sure where you came up with this idea that I'm elitest cause I drive a "$60k" Turbo. I'd love for you to show me. I do expect you to act the way you do, so I'm not surprised with any of your comments about anyone anymore. I think your comments are pretty immature, most of the time. And while a lot of your opinions are well thought out and I consider many to be good, they are usually clouded with your antics and provoking attitude and end up falling short. Again, just my simple opinion

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Fair enough. It's all good, arro, it's nothing personal. I like having you around here. And the 911 Turbo wasn't a supercar back then and it isn't now and never will be.

You too man. Whether the 996 was a supercar back in '01 is something we can certainly have a lively debate about!

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I'm not sure I care enough to start it up with you. I can only take on so many battles. WAHAHAA

We are lucky men indeed if the life we lead lets us think of a Porsche 911 Turbo as less than a supercar.

Well, if you continue to look at 996's, mine is for sale....see sig.....

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FLAME SUIT ON Gant Although I am not a frequent poster (only post when I have something worthwhile to say) who even after being talked to by the moderators, has not cleaned up his tone. Last time I posted, he told me that my stock ride height car looked like an off roader, or something like that. It seems that anyone who doesnt agree with him is an idiot, and bullied into submision until they either agree, or shut up. Although he obviously has zero engineering or tech savy (uses a mechanic to do everything), he has opinions on every technical question which is asked. If I was inclined to make his kind of statements, I might recomend that he sees a shrink, cause this anti-social, anti-anyone who disagrees behavior is going to get him hurt sometime in the future. Interesting, if you look through back posts, you will find that when one of his "friends" disagrees, somehow that post gets ignored. FLAME SUIT OFF Moderators: You may spank me for this if you like, but I suggest you try again to change this behavior before this forum dies

Larry, Try to make the Spring run. Its just north of 84 off the Housatonic Pkwy to Albany this weekend. As for your comments:

Chsu74 Thx for the invite, cannot make it, family stuff going on. And thanks for the popcorn, I prefer Orvill Redinbockers Kettle Corn, slightly sweet, slightliy salty. But, I can no longer take the BS that is occuring on this board. I do believe it causes people to not want to post. When a statement like "Cool Honda" is analyazed, and degraded, it is hard to know what can be said without being ATTACKED. BTW the sky is blue. I hope no one finds that offensive. Larry

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Moderators should also consider reading this thread line by line and get an accurate assessment of exactly where I or anyone else has degraded or attacked arrogant or anyone else.

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Seems rather judgemental and degrading to me

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Arrogant and I have history and context. I've never taken his comments personally and found any of it degrading. It's just our style and it's clear in the posts here that we're cool with each other until you decided to pick at it and overanalyze it. Heck, I wasn't even the one who took offense to his cool Honda post, but it's clear you have some sort of deep seeded issue with me and have blurted it out here. Discuss with the moderators all you wish. It's clear I have changed my tone and my attitude and will continue to be who I am.

Ben, you asked, lfe showed you. Think before you type next time and you won't end up looking foolish.

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What are you talking about, Dan? If you guys really have a problem with me and if y'all feel that I take this forum down, then do something about it. I'm fine with whatever decisions the mods make. I certainly do not want to be a part of a forum where I can't be myself and where people just don't see eye-to-eye with the truth that I share. For example, I will not change from calling lfe's car or any other 911 that looks like it's sittin' higher than normal like a 4x4 truck. Seriously. Do something about it.

Ben I do not have personal problem with you. And I will not continue this discussion. I am just suggesting that you are involved in nearly every flame war that occurs on this board. In fact you start most of them. This board (as Gant has pointed out) has gotten very un-civil. This might be your style, thats OK. But it is a good idea when you belong to a community to adopt the style of the community. Lets face it this is an elite croud. Anyone who can afford one of these beasts obviously is makeing a good living, and has good taste. But nobody here likes to be bashed. And especially told they have bad taste. Do you walk into someones living room and tell them that thier furniture looks like crap ????? then why do it here. Peace

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I agree with you. We are very lucky to be here in this forum to share our stories and thoughts about an automobile that's very impractical, high maintenance, and costly. I don't agree with you that this is like walking into someone's living room and calling it crap. I haven't been in any of your living rooms because none of you have invited me to your home. Your private residence. This is a public domain to which I am a member. People voluntarily post up pics of their mods and if it's great, I'll tell them hey that's great. If it looks weird or is a decision that I feel is off target, then I will share as enthusiastically as I would cheer them on. But, again, if the majority want me out, then I'm out. I have no problems leaving a place where I am not wanted by the majority. It won't be easy as I love this place , but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

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Just two general comments around this, without prejudice to anybody's interests in particular: The fact is, 996s are no longer the province of rich, middle-aged white men. I think you're going to see a lot of diversity of personalities and tastes on this board in the next couple of years. It always happens on boards like this as the car concerned ages. Expect more mod talk, more outlandish personalizing, more focus on what's the best value rather than what's best, more sensitivity to maintenance costs, and so on. Better to enjoy it or at least be at peace with it, or buy something newer. Secondly, civility comes in lots of forms. If we're going to start castigating people for being uncivil, the list would include plenty of seasoned board members, too. If we're all going to hold hands and agree to be more respectful of each other, let's include the people who get apoplectically vicious about oil viscosities, too. Let's include the people who reach for irrelevancies like nationality or race or age to discredit a poster. Let's include the people who try to gang up on someone when they can't hold their own rhetorically. Civility and conformity don't mean the same thing. Neither do being respectful and being polite. I'm all up for more respectfulness and more civility, but not remotely for more uni-think and politeness. My .02.

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I was living proof.........

Well said Bruce. My language might not have acuratly stated my observations. But as my spelling probably indicates, I am an engineer. Thanks for the word smithing Larry

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Actually, in post #70 you misspelled making, and in this post you misspelled accurately.....

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I like Magazine Racing better.

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Far too dangerous. What with the paper cuts and all.

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Yesterday I couldnt even spell engineir today I are one

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Ben, it's a good idea, and good "webiquette" when on a forum to act as if you were in a formal group discussion in person and try not to offend, and be courteous. That's NOT to say your opinions shouldn't be strong and independant, just not so offensive personally or towards anyones pride and joy. I can tell you, SO many comments you make here would get you into fist fights if they were in person. You and I have context, only because of so many derogatory remarks you make, but they are offensive to me, and I've actually even been offended for others and embarrased that they are made by a Rennlist member (you). The context is, we get into "it" and I end up taking the good, and leaving the BS comments as just that. It's one thing to joke and mess around with a Renn friend and break some *****, but to outright belittle my opinions by saying things such as "This is the last guy I'd go to for car wisdom especially along this front." and "He's kinda weird like that - you just gotta accept him for who he is on here. He seems to think because he drives a $60K 2001 Turbo (supercar he says) somehow he's in a diff club. Pls. WHAHAHA" when I did nothing to provoke you, or anyone else. It is completely inappropriate, offensive and disrespectful to say the least. It IS bully tactics. And NO ONE likes to be have their remarks and reputation dismissed that way. Over and over, when you don't agree with someone, or they don't have what you perceive to be nice, or hot, you belittle them by dissing their car, or even their wife. This often is done very subtly on your part. All I've ever said regarding my car is that I went to my Turbo from a C4S and it was a good move for me and I recommend it, and you immediately jump in and say all the things that you think suck about my car i.e ugly duck-tail, bad turbo lag, lack of options on my car and a lot of other stuff. If even 1/10'th of the people here treated me that way, i'd certainly leave and not come back. Fact is, most people here are nice to you and compliment the great job you've done on your car, but you 're esteem seems to be so low, that you constantly make childish, belittling and insulting remarks towards people you don't even know. It's not cool man. I think people have just gotten used to you and have come to expect it. However, all that said, you do have a TON of wealthy knowledge and good taste. I can speak for myself when I say, your opinions are valued and respected. Just tone down the negatives bro, act as if you are in a group setting with a few friends, but mostly strangers. Try and act like an adult and be more respectful. I can certainly take my own advice in certain situations, too. Oh, and last thing, no way you should leave this forum, I don't think anyone is proposing that. You are right, you have a right to be here and no ones opinions should be stifled, no matter what. This is a free and open forum, as long as you're not threatining or hurting anyone, I agree with you, it's ALL fair game and so are retorts. Moderators have no business getting involved, IMO.

I've said what I've said in response to the tired and oft repeated "I'm a victim" story and I'm not going to go through it yet again. Bullying? Physical threats? C'mon, man. You gonna try to slap me now? In the name of trying to make progress, I will retire from this thread. My conscience is clear... I've provided valuable/relevant/honest feedback to the author of this thread.

BChoi, you're the Simon Cowell of Rennlist. I do hope you at least wear collar shirts once in a while, though. Back to the topic, for $20k, I'd definitely suggest the newer S2000 over the '99 996. Although the S2000 is relatively lethargic down-low, it's not where the fun is or what it's about. As others have said, it's a high-strung, screaming go-kart that's purposeful, fits like a glove, and low maintenance to boot. Not to mention it's also blessed with the typical Japanese-made workmanship, with an exterior styling that's quite easy on the eyes. My sister used to have a red '01, and I'd drive it every chance I got. It was quite a change from the Boxster I had at the time. The Boxster felt more balanced and reassuring, but the S2000 seemed tighter and sharper when pushed hard. Or maybe I just didn't know how to properly drive a mid-engined car... The 911 is a completely different comparison for all the reasons others have already stated. If you haven't been dreaming about owning a 911 since childhood, then the '04 S2000 is definitely the value winner. I, however, am a hopeless 911 romantic, so I'd likely opt for the older 996 and all its potential troubles.

Not to get off topic... but I have a 2005 S2000, and have spent much seat time in the 996 (hopefully a lot more, permanent time, soon) and can tell you that the S2000 is a hell of a car. So is the 996, but they are very very different. Costs (minus tires, esp auto-x ones) are the only real expense with the S2000 unless you try to mod it... then you will pay beaucoup $$ for very little weight loss / power gain. I looked at a 996 when I bought the Honda, and for me, once I drove the Honda I knew it was what I wanted - a car that was unrefined and raw (and had a trunk). One piece of advice though - if you buy the S, and people ask you what you drive... just say "s2000" because as soon as you say "Honda....no, the sports car" they think you mean lowered Civic.

s2000 is one of the best bangs for the buck out there!! sings right out of the box... no mods needed...

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My hat is off to you, sir.

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Not knowing the history between the two posters, I do agree with your thoughts on "webiquette".....

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+1...all of it.

I had an S2000 for six months. Brand new 2006!! Loved it! Lot's of Fun.... Got jacked three times...and they took the wheels, seats, shifter, steering wheel, etc...after ripping the roof with a knife...($14 - $15 k, every time) I don't care for that sort of fun... Sold it with 1500 miles.... I don't believe that you'd ever have that with a Porsche.

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That stinks. Its like the B4? Audi S4s (the first gen) They get stolen so quickly here that the cars are loaded into containers in NJ and out of the country before they are reported stolen....