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YOUR RESEARCHGet ready for 15% Ethanol
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Run 100% ethanol
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Indy cars ran 100% ethanol for a couple of years, but now run E85.
Leading evidence: 'Run 100% ethanol' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'biggest issue' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill little p-cars' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I have run ethanol free 91 and E10 93 back to back and prefer how the car runs on the 93.
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I ran a race car on pure alcohol back in the mid 80's.
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That's amazing to hear -- did not know anyone sold or used E85.
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I have used the Lucas Ethanol treatment below on vintage cars based upon a recommendation from a vintage car forum.
Run allows (while still preventing pre-detonation (pinging))
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Suggestion
In modern cars like the 996, where the ignition adapts, higher octane rated fuel can produce more power because the ignition can advance the timing to the maximum limit the fuel you are running allows (while still preventing pre-detonation (pinging)).
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Feds just announced that, in response to demands from the "Corn Belt", that starting in 2020 they would up the Ethanol in gas from 10% to 15% and allow its use year round.
Great news for the big farm corporations, but I doubt that this will be good for our engines. I did a quick search on the subject, but found no threads. Anyone out there an expert on ethanol and high compression engines?
Here is the article in todays NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/u...l-farmers.html
BTY, the push for ethanol was made before fracking and coal sands made the US an exporter of both oil and refined gasoline. We do not need ethanol in our gas.
Patrick
I am waiting for the new WaWa to open down the street. Supposedly going to have ethanol free high octane gas. Probably have to pay a premium for NOT having something mixed into it. Just like laundry soap...buy the fragrance free stuff and you pay more because they don't ADD fragrance or perfume. The world is a strange place.
I'm tired of politicians talking about the dangers of 'socialism' while handing out billions of dollars of our tax money to their big corp AG buddies to grow things nobody needs or wants.
Long term all this does is push people towards EV's even faster; good for the planet I guess, not good for my 996
If you have an engine that's designed to run on 100% ethanol, you can get a ton of power out of it. Indy cars ran 100% ethanol for a couple of years, but now run E85. Nascar uses E15.
It makes no sense to run E10 or E15 in passenger cars. It takes more energy to produce ethanol from corn than you get burning the ethanol. It is a net loss. The only country I am aware of that has a net gain from burning ethanol is Brazil, because they can grow a lot of sugar cane which has a higher ethanol yield.
Once again, politics and science diverge.
Eth lowers BTU of gasoline, so you get less miles per gallon. Trump is fixing the stupid in US government as fast as he can which is why devilcrats are tying him up in knots as tight as they can.
Ethanol free is best. Think of ethanol as tofu....it's more or less a filler. An engine can run on it but it takes a hell of lot more of it to make the same power.
Probably the biggest issue with Ethanol is that it's harmful for rubber on vintage cars. It's not an issue for 996-era cars, at least at 10%, and presumably not at 15%. I'd happily pay a premium (pun not avoidable) for ethanol-free for vintage cars, but ethanol-free is practically unobtanium in NJ.
For those of you that have run your 996 on both E-10 and ethanol-free, have you noticed any difference in power, drivability, gas mileage?
I'd take ethanol-free every time given a choice, but the answer isn't that clearcut.
Gas mileage-wise, E10 is worse. If E10 was cheaper than ethanol-free, then maybe worse mileage at lower cost would be a wash. I doubt E10 is cheaper than what it would be if we didn't have an E10 mandate, but I have no idea.
On the plus side, ethanol actually has a much higher octane rating at 113 octane versus a rating of around 85 for pure gas (without any other octane booster additives). Adding 10% Ethanol automatically raises octane of pure gas by about 2 rating points. A higher octane rating on its own doesn't increase power, it only helps prevent pre-detonation because higher octane rated fuel is actually more difficult to ignite (which seems counterintuitive). In modern cars like the 996, where the ignition adapts, higher octane rated fuel can produce more power because the ignition can advance the timing to the maximum limit the fuel you are running allows (while still preventing pre-detonation (pinging)).
I don't know anything about them, but they must use other additives to raise 85 octane pure gas and 87 octane E-10 to 92 or 93 for premium fuel. Performance-wise, I'm curious how 93 octane ethanol-free would compare to 93 octane E10 in the 996, or any car. Gas mileage would definitely be worse with 93 E10, but I haven't seen anything saying performance is worse (at the same octane level) with ethanol.
For vintage cars, ethanol is bad for rubber -- fuel lines, fuel pump diaphragms, etc. I don't think that is an issue in 996-era cars or later (or for vintage cars retrofitted with modern rubber everywhere in the fuel system, carbs, fuel pumps, etc.).
E10 and E15 are ok for cars built in the last 20 yrs but only if you drive them, if they're sitting for 4-6 months or longer the ethanol will separate from the gas and it will absorb water/condensation in the tank from large temperature changes.
In florida we have ethanol free 87 and 90. We refer to the 90 as rec90 and most boaters will only use it in their outboard engines. I run only rec90 in my c4s and it's about 75c a gallon more than 87 and equal to 93.
The ethanol % was set in the original bill, the percent increases 5% every few years,,,
2020 was the 15% goal, I believe 2025 is the 20% mark but its been a long time since I
came across the bill..
Good point about water absorption. Do you have any opinion/advice whether it's better to store a car for winter with the tank full or empty when the only option is E10? Also curious if you feel any difference when running rec90 versus E-10 93.
I was referring to the octane rating you see on the pump. I'm not sure what you mean by octane being .2 rather than 2, but I edited my earlier post to clarify "octane rating" (as in the octane rating you see on the pump). The math is pretty simple -- raw gas without any other octane-boosting additives) has an octane rating of 85, and ethanol has an octane rating of 113. Therefore, the octane rating of E10 will be 87.8 ((.9 * 85) + (.1 * 113)), or an increase of 2.8 over pure gas rated at 85.
All of the above is "behind the scenes" because they still use other additives to raise the octane to 93 for premium, whether the base is pure gas or E10, it's just that fewer octane boosting additives are needed for E10 to reach 93 because ethanol raises octane on its own. If my prior post implied that E10 had higher a higher octane rating, then I get the point of confusion, I was just saying that ethanol does have a "behind the scenes" benefit of raising octane. I am
*
NOT*
an expert at all, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the math is what it is. I absolutely hate E10, so it pains me to say something good about it, but I'm trying to be objective.
no problem, I understand. Just wanted to make sure people don't think that 1 octane point is 1 octane. The fuel additive market (such as Octane Booster and other brands) exploit this and make people think that they can easily raise the octane of a lower grade fuel to something much higher when all they are doing is increasing the rating by only 0.2 octane.
On Alchy free 93 Unleaded , my 996 jumps about 5MPG up..
And you can feel the engine running smoother especially at idle..
Bio fuels are about the money, not function..
We have lot of E85 around here (Ohio) but you need a car tuned for it to take full advantage. It would not work in a car designed for E10. But in the right car it can be pretty amazing - I had a 2011 Buick Regal turbo as a company car, which is designed for flex fuel and has larger injectors to take advantage of the E85. Since E85 is 105+ octane the wastegate stays closed longer and the power is amazing. Tuners are getting 375+ HP out of the 2.0 liter GM turbos running E85.
But - no free ride - fuel economy on E85 is about 25% less than on E10 due to the lower energy content of ethanol versus gasoline. Back then I was driving a lot of miles, and really enjoyed the power, but the constant fill-ups were a pain and I ended up going back to E10.
Daryll
I'm not smart enough to know what the answer is. But it worries me that we feel the need to increasingly use food for fuel. I guess in the next 20 or 30 years we'll see. Until then I'll keep filling my little P-cars with whatever they sell me at the pumps.
D.
I've kept on top of this topic and sent out newsletters to our customers about changes in fuels, early this year and last year as well:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=iD8Bl4jX1H8
The above link covered changes to Porsche oil standards as well as ethanol compatibility for all Porsche models. Long story short, everything before the Boxster and 996 is only approved for E5 (5% ethanol), which requires adding fuel additives to protect fuel system components.
A more general email about ethanol in general, for those who want to read it, can be found here:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=33JXXLMiTK0
Hey Charles,, what bits of the 996 fuel system (If any) would you keep an eye on as far as Alcohol exposure,,
I know the fuel hoses on the old 911's were horrible for self destructing if they got E* in them.. As well as injector o-rings..
I ran a race car on pure alcohol back in the mid 80's. It is a wonderful fuel for a Turbocharged Race Engine, but is very dry, I had to mix in some Ester based top end lube oil to lube the valve guide and top rings.
It also absorbs water like a sponge. Back then if buying by the barrel in 55 gallon barrel was $2 a gallon, but it took twice as much alcohol to go same distance so compared to gasoline was $4 .
My 996 doesn't have any issues with E10, but all my small engines do !!! weedeaters, lawn mowers , and chainsaws will stop up the small jets if let sit for 4-5 months during the winter. I buy non-ethanol for the small engines. but I have to go out of my way to get it so I get 10 gal at a time.
My next service item I was considering was sending the injectors out for refurb..
I run good fuel, and techron in all the cars I own usually a tank before an oil change..
I figured a 03 should be fairly safe generally on E10/15 But I wonder what will happen with E20..
We have had several sets of injectors sent out to be cleaned and tested that have passed to then only fail shortly thereafter. We only use new injectors now, when and where available.
Ethanol is hygroscopic and corrosive for some metals in your block. Such as aluminium. it deteriorated the components that are in direct contact with it.
If your car was made in a period where ethanol was not considered as a possible additive to the fuel a lot of components are made of materials which in fact are not ideal for running with low concentrations of ethanol.
with the right choice of materials the problems that ethanol causes can be delayed not eliminated.
i find this article very comprehensive to read
https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...damage-engine/
I have used the Lucas Ethanol treatment below on vintage cars based upon a recommendation from a vintage car forum. I really don't know if it helped or not. Reviews on Amazon seem to be good:
Amazon
Amazon
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
