Why Sumotumo Htrz iii is better than pzero and other expensice a** tires...

Because every time I roast them in first gear coming out of a corner I smile and say to myself "that was fun" instead of "that cost me $50!" So for those thinking of replacing their "Porsche Approved" tires, don't sweat it buy the Sumos and have fun. and if you are looking for a 996 buy one without PSM cause it rocks!

I would agree that Sumitomos are comparable to Pirelli P-Zeros. I've had both, and I won't ever buy either one again! The Sumis are cheap though, no doubt...

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Why not?

My personal experience wasn't good. They weren't bad for the money, but they didn't handle as well as the Michelin PS2s, and they howled after ~10K miles. I had the same experience with multiple sets of Pirellis. I know lots of people love the Sumis, but there's no comparison to Michelins based on my experience. What kind of oil do you like?

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10k miles? lOL! Mine will not last that long.... as far as oil I wear that out quickly also so it really doesn't matter. I know it's crazy to treat such a rare and collectible car like this, shame on me!

Rare and collectible? Hmmmm.... As long as you're enjoying your experience, it's all good. The 996 is a wonderful car.

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That was sarcasm...... My point is these are not 959s, they are cheap fun cars, like all the 944s I have owned. I would rather burn off some Sumi's then fret over Porsche approved $350 per tire, tires. I have hundreds of hours of track time and trust me air pressure, setup etc counts more than the difference between two different DOT tires of the same rating, and that's on the track not the street where their are many more variables and limitations.

Glad you're enjoying them.

Hummm, maybe I should try the llls sometime. I ran 2 sets of the lls on my C2 and loved how they hooked up, their level of grip and were very predictable. They were very hard to break loose, I don't ever remember being able to do to it actually. Then I bought my Turbo. It had PS2s, 50% on the back and about 75% on front. Embarrassingly, I lost the car twice in 2nd gear turns both by my house. The first time I lost the front pushing, like there was no grip, then the back snapped quickly from side to side, I was able to recover, but wow! The second time, I took a wide 90 degree turn in 2nd on the gas that I have hundreds of times, the back came around and I spun out, right in the middle of the road. Lucky there was no traffic. I felt like a complete idiot. I know better, I've raced for years, taught racing schools, etc. I thought maybe the AWD and the power of the Turbo was to blame. My tires were fairly fresh, warm outside and such. But a couple of months later I replaced all my tires with Sumi lls and the great handling I'd known with my C2 came back. I slowly kept upping my entry and cornering speeds in the canyons to regain confidence I'd previously known. Now I can push really hard under full boost and the Sumi lls stick like heavy duty velcro. They are good in the rain as well. Maybe things would change on a track and they would get greasy, but I haven't found anything I like better on the street.

I have only tried the III s but like your experience they stick like glue and ride better. I was expecting they would not be as good as the perellis but for the money would be adequate but they are better IMO

i get what dwebb is saying. tire rating on the sumi is 300/aa/a so it has great wear life for the traction rating that it has. Where as the pzero rosso tires that i have on one set of whees only has a 220/aa/a rating. Now if we made a bet on the best track time running two laps with both sets of tires I would put my money on the softer tire compond. which would be the pzero's but this is his daily driver and over all why not have some fun with his driving style. So i guess, "why not!!"

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Yes , you get it. My days of driving to the track and running on the track and driving home are done! If I want to track I will buy a track car As far as head to head times, I would agree the pzeros would win,, but only if both sets of tires were heat cycled within in reason. We have to remember when we compare tires we are normally comparing an old set of tires to a new set as I have done here. My pint of posting was to help people who are struggling with the decision of keeping the "approved tires" on their car, just not worth it in my opinion. Neither is using a real street tire at the track either, but that's another story...

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I get it too. That's why I tried a set of Sumis! Again - my experience wasn't good (in many ways) but opinions on tires used on the street are subjective. I really wish Michelin would make the Pilot Super Sports in the proper sizes for the C4S. I would love to try a set. At this point, I haven't found a tire that I like better than the Pilot Sport PS2. I don't lose any sleep over it or worry about pushing the car. I drive it the way I want to drive it, and I buy new tires when I need them.

my sumi's are working pretty well for my street driving so far.

Tire Rack has the Sumi III's on sale right now with a set of 18's going for a silly cheap $476 with rebate. I had em on my S2000 with no complaints. Currently running Sumi II's on my 2002 Carrera.

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Curious as to your thoughts on the lls? Do you push hard in the turns? Thanks

I've yet to find any limitations on my sumi's .. Street driving though ... Pzeros did get noisy with age

Well, for one they are certainly not better than the "N" Mich's and if you show up for a real Porsche event with the Sumis' you will quickly be turned around and sent on your way.

I'm very happy with the Sumi IIIs on my C4S. I've never had the car on a track or autocross so my experience is limited to daily driving but they're much better than the P-Zeros that my S60R came equipped with from the factory. I was happy to wear them out and would have replaced them with bubble gum before ever buying another set (I'm thinking a few bags of Big League Chew would have done the job). Nevertheless, while I've never had PS2s on the Porsche I will agree that they don't handle like the PS2s I've had on my other cars. I've got a while to go before I need to replace them and/or they've accumulated enough mileage to start howling. Maybe my opinion will change in the future but, especially in light of their relative bang for the buck, they've been great so far. -Eric

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What's a real Porsche event? Just curious...

"A real Porsche event" must be where people spent $1500 for tires as opposed to $500.

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you may be right but having only been the autocross chair, de chair, race chair, and board member for my PCA region in the past (also started the local NASA region and 944-spec racing) I am not sure until Krazy schools me

I have the Sumi, and they have been the best set of tires on my car. I spent a god awful amount on a set of good year, then Pirellis, both gave me issue after 6-7000 miles. Started to shake god loud... These Sumi III have over 20K in them and are F$CKING GREAT. and were 1/4 the cost

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Unfortunately I don't thnk you can use them at a real Porsche event, sorry.

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Pretty sure you are being sarcastic in response to KK's post, just wanted to avoid giving any more credence to the "you can't use Sumi's at a Porsche event" nonsense. Show up with bald, scalloped, or otherwise damaged tires of *any* brand and you might not make it through tech inspection, or try to enter an actual racing class with incorrect spec tires and you might get turned away, but because they don't like the brand of your tires unless competing in a spec class with spec tires? Not so much...

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His sarcasm is a given and I could be wrong but I think you missed KK's point (or maybe I did). What I'm wondering is whether Krazy thinks the tire manufacturer really makes a difference if you're pulling up in a 996? -Eric

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Yes it was sarcasm, butwhat was KKs post about? This thread is about brand new tires. I have been a Rennlist member/user since it was a mailing list, circa 1999. since I bought my 996 Last year I started lurking again and I must say KK and many others on this forum drive me nuts with their uneducated comments on just about every thread, seriously, it's like they have to post to every thread regardless of whether they know what they are talking about or not. I just don't get it, I mean I am happy to debate tires, oil, whatever but to state " you will be turned away from a real Porsche event", give me a break. Maybe it was sarcasm or a joke, if it is then KK should clarify, otherwise just shut up and stop posting crap just for the sake of posting. by the way, I just read KKs post about his IMS solution great stuff... Just can't figure out some of his other posts.

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KK deviates from Porsche spec on engine internals but not tires. That is where he draws the line.(insert irony, sarcasm and the kitchen sink....) I ran 2 sews of SUMI III with my 996. Best bang for the buck and DE with them too.

KK is being KK. The guys that's been on here know that KK can be abrasive for all the wrong reasons. Some of the newbs follow him like sheep but eventually learn that the JG DT40 lube up their rear doesn't feel as good any more. Remember this is a guy that's afraid to take his car on a 300mile trip. What makes you think he's gonna take his car on the track with his n rated tires? He might damage his car not to mention get his engine and tranny dirty, which he'll then have to detail again. KK does bring the drama to an otherwise boring forum so it's all good.

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I get that but I just want to make sure some Porsche noob does not think they have to have $1200 tires to participate in an event. I will lay off now...

I had Sumi IIs for a few years, hated them in about every way, undersized (stretched on the rim) for the exact same size of PS2s, PSM kicked in way more often, soft flexy sidewalls, despite being stretched to fit, lost air faster than any tire I've owned, horrible in the wet, worse in the mist, flat spotted over night, and noisy to boot. So besides being cheap, black & round, they didn't have lot going for them in my book. My PS2s in comparison have been an absolute dream, but then I'm not a racer, autoxer, instructor, etc, etc. So each person has different experiences and expectations, I guess. I've not tried Sumi IIIs, and maybe down the road I might, but my life is such that I have to work at putting even 5k miles on my car, so higher mileage rated tires are lost on me. They age and get old before worn out. If dwebb can't get 10k miles out of Sumi IIIs, then he's got the right tire for the way he drives. Damn!

I have the Sumi IIIs on my wife's TL. Not exactly the same size and usage as the pcar, but nevertheless I have some comments. -flatspots like a **** if you don't drive the car everyday (usually takes a couple of miles for the flatspotting to go away) -One thing I did notice was that on a recent trip from the Bay Area to SoCal, that during high speed cruising, there would be some shake in the steering wheel. Like the wheels were out of balance or flat spotting. The thing was that this was inconsistent. Sometimes you could feel it, sometimes you couldn't. This was driving at the same speed, just at different times. (and no, it was not the road.) Now that I think about it, the flatspotting problem, this could be the cause of the vibration. Perhaps the heat in the tires was causing the tire to be slightly out of round or something. Perfectly fine for commute driving speeds. Not too much fun on my drive down I5 where the "cruising" speed was higher and consistent. -relatively quiet, but I'm looking for a quieter tire next time for this car (someone mentioned the Hankook Evos are well reviewed, so I'll look into that) Keep in mind, this is for my wife's TL.

The comment was meant in a joking manner but with some facts behind it. The stated problems with Sumi aside, it is the speed rating that is a track problem for lower tier brand tires. When Michelin stamps a tire "Y" service rated (186mph) and "N4" Porsche, you can rest assured the tire has met extremely rigid testing standards by Michelin. With the lower tier brands, i.e. Sumi, who knows? Foreign manufactures (especially China) are notorious for fudging or outright fabricating their compliance with known standards. I just dont know if I would trust a lower tier tire at a full out high speed track run. Street use? Maybe OK, maybe not. And,, I dont think Porsche recognizes any brand replacement IMSB as "official OEM".

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I have to agree with you, not going to run my 911 at 186 MPH anyway. Still wondering what a real Porsche event is.. Oh, thank goodness the sumis are not made in China, Japanese company, owns Dunlop, joint venture with Goodyear and all.

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So, Chao basically hit the nail on the head. LOL You do realize that Sumitomo Tire is over 100yrs old and used to own Dunlop Tire (which they sold off back in the 80s), right? While they might not be as well known in the US as other brands they aren't a recent upstart or a company that only sold tires in Japan for the past 100 yrs. I'm not sure I'd call them a lower tier simply because they're cheaper or not known as well. As for the IMSB, I don't believe Porsche recognizes the IMSB as being serviceable. How could a replacement IMSB be OEM when the OEM doesn't offer a replacement? -Eric

Did everyone see the HTR Z III is presently offering a $50 rebate off for a set of four? Here's the details. Give me a call or use the link to order.

I have the Pilot Super Sports but this year I finally bought some Toyos for DE'g I will go back to the Sumi 3 for the street. In the past I used them for street and track and had a blast. Had them and 5 MPH and at 135 MPH and felt comfortable and safe. For the price they are a definite win. KK ur killin' me........how often have you been to a Pcar event? I did hear from sources he was present at the weeny social last week.

I've watched a little on Teeeee Veeeee. (Joker quote)

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OMG. PSS are not "N" rated.... Shame on you.

Any "real" event recognized by Porsche requires it.

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I believe the Sumis are manufactured by Goodyear for the North American market.

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Lol. Is there a link or PCA literature of this somewhere?

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If this is humor it's not funny. Try posting some facts to back it up.

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There will always be sh*t stirrers here. You can try to reason with them or ignore them. I choose the latter.

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RE sumi's - they are fine, but they are not going to win at Leman's I've run them with good results...if price is a concern, these are fine....if you have pockets overflowing with money, buy a better tire

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I drive with Sumi 3s on the street and think they perform great. In the past on other cars(Audis) the Mich. tires always ended up being very loud, and expensive in comparison. Maybe the Sumis will get louder in time as well, we'll see.

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Just an update, tires are great after 1000 miles. I noticed the "Made in Japan" label yesterday when I was making a curb rash repair and had the wheel off the car.

I have a regular c2 so breaking the tires in a corner isnt really easy for me or particularly fun. The michelin Pilot AS that it came with had really bad understeer. That being said, i notice that the IIIs do give better confidence in hard turns and when they start to understeer, it doesn't suddenly go unresponsive...you can feel it breaking loose and reduce your steering angle before it starts to drift too far out of your line. I do notice the howl they make and it sounds okay with the top down in the fast lane. The tread pattern is not directional. However, after 10k miles, i must say that i am sold and i approve

I have them and did a track day at Summit Point last Friday and after my last session the rear driver's side tire was down to ~10 psi (noticeably flat to the point that the PA announcer called it out to me). I got air back in the tire before it was completely flat and it has been fine since. I have no prior track day experience so I don't know if hitting a curb could knock the air out of it and that's not uncommon or if this is a tire specific phenomenon.

Hankook V12 problems solved

I put Sumis on back in March. 1500 miles in and they are great. But the real reason they are great is that last week I felt thumping and assumed I had a flat. When I pulled off the highway to check, sure enough it was flat. Pulled the tire off and had 3 bulges on the inner sidewall. I assumed it was a bum tire so I took it to my installer. He pulled the tire off and found that I had 2 cracks in my wheel (god I love NJ roads after winter). Found a replacement wheel on Ebay and ordered a new tire....so why are Sumis great? Because if that had been a $400 tire it would have been a really bad day...since it was only a $180 tire, it was just a bad day.

I have about 3k miles on mine and no complaints yet. We're planning on taking a 2k mile trip this week with them on.

Did you see the Pirelli p zeros on British Grand Prix today .... That gives me confidence on the autobahn at 300k

p-zeros suck IMO. Have a set on the Lambo and literally hate them. Have a worn set on the 996; they track horribly for a street tire and ride like crap. I have a brand new set of the HTRZ waiting to go on the 996, can't wait to put them on (between work and travel over the next month, it's not going to happen until August).

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What was the final count of exploding left rear tires in yesterday's F1 race, 3?

...as a side note, Falken Tire is also a subsidiary brand of Sumitomo. I personally like the Hankook V12 better for the price though. and for semi's the Ventus R-S3 is hard to beat.