11 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBMW Frame Problems??
Reported or suspected cause
blown way out of proportion
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
But to be honest IMHO(me being a long time BMW guy), the problem is blown way out of proportion on internet forums, very similar to the Porsche RMS issue.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening.
Leading evidence: 'blown way out of proportion' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'blown way out of proportion' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace rear trailing arm bushings' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The Z3 based cars had this issue much more than the regular sedans because it used a 2 point mount for the differential (E30), where the 3 series cars used a different differential design with 3 mount more robust mount in the subframe.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The Z3 based cars had this issue much more than the regular sedans because it used a 2 point mount for the differential (E30), where the 3 series cars used a different differential design with 3 mount more robust mount in the subframe.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Replace rear trailing arm bushings
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The Z3 based cars had this issue much more than the regular sedans because it used a 2 point mount for the differential (E30), where the 3 series cars used a different differential design with 3 mount more robust mount in the subframe.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The Z3 based cars had this issue much more than the regular sedans because it used a 2 point mount for the differential (E30), where the 3 series cars used a different differential design with 3 mount more robust mount in the subframe.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
blown way out of proportion
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
But to be honest IMHO(me being a long time BMW guy), the problem is blown way out of proportion on internet forums, very similar to the Porsche RMS issue.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
11 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
I'd take an RMS leak over this problem on an M3 any day....
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=195602
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157603
This has been a problem for BMW for quite some time. To my knowledge it started showing up on early E36's. When the E36 M3 came out, this area of where the rear subframe mount connects to the unibody was reinforced with thicker steel. Turner (a BMW racer/tuner) came out with a reinforcement plate fix package for cars to retrofit.. Supposedly, lowering the car and adding suspension upgrades makes the problem worse. It can be fixed, but it costs about 2k. You remove the rear suspension, and weld in reinforcement plates.
But to be honest IMHO(me being a long time BMW guy), the problem is blown way out of proportion on internet forums, very similar to the Porsche RMS issue. I have a late model E36 (a 1997 318i) that I bought 2 years old. I have lowered it, have sport dampers, have upgraded eibach sway bars, have a eaton supercharger system that takes it almost to M3 hp and torque and drive it like I stole it, for 7 years now, with 168k miles, and it has no problems with the rear subframe. Lucky? Maybe. I do check it frequently to look for tears in the sheetmetal. But BMW, like Porsche, incrementally improves the design of its cars as they go along, so the late model E36's don't have this issue come up like the early models do. But having said that, this is the first I have heard of the E46 models having this issue.
Nothing is perfect.
Well, you look at Ray's avatar, and you get the idea that he's a track guy. That's one thing that's always impressed me about Porsches... you can take them directly from the showroom to the track. BMWs, even the ///M cars, are still luxury/sports cars, and not really designed to stand up to track abuse. And like pecivil points out, these problems are rare but the power of the Internet does tend to throw the severity out of whack.
As a long-time Bimmerphile, I've heard of this problem from way-back-when, but I have never personally seen it or know anyone whose car has experienced the problem. Conversely, my 996 has had the RMS replaced...
Michael
FWIW - My 2001 M3, I tore the front right strut mount (before they made the OEM strut brace mandatory for 2002 late model years). The sheet metal was cracked. BMW fixed it, after a fight ... I merely autocrossed the car and they knew it. They flew out some technician from BMW NA to authorize the repair. So, not just the rear shock mount area -- the front area as well. Guess I was just too good of a driver putting stress on the car through the slalom
-- NOT!! Car was out of commission for 6 weeks
Don't get me started on BMWs!!!! I bought the first year of the new style (current now) 2001 e46 M3 convertible. The car was alright performance-wise, and the fit and finish was decent. But with only 17K on the odometer, and 11 month into my ownership, the engine blew out.
Turns out what happened is the engine's cam shaft bearing were built with too little tolerance, and the bearings blew out at 3k rpm, and in turn caused a cylinder to shatter.
The best part is how the dealer claimed for the whole time before the engine failure that it is normal for the new M3 to burn a quart of oil a month.
Fun stuff. I had the car in the dealer for over 3 months while they were waiting for a new engine... ugh.
Figures crossed on my car with RMS.
Wow - we've had two BMWs now and have loved both of them, but I'm glad they've been lease vehicles and we turn them in before the bumper to bumper warranty expires. We currently have an X5, which is a great vehicle, but I had to take it in three times within the first two months before they figured out how to correct leakage that was killing our AC. They fixed it properly just in time for fall
Are you sure it wasn't me that did it?
I miss co-driving that car.
I had an E36 that I avidly autocrossed and never had any issues with the sub-frame connectors. IIRC changing the rear trailing arm bushings on the cars would help reduce stress that a warn set would place on subframe and reduce risk of this happening. That is not to say that the BMW's didn't have weak sheetmetal issues. It is common to have to reinforce rear shock mounts etc...
The Z3 based cars had this issue much more than the regular sedans because it used a 2 point mount for the differential (E30), where the 3 series cars used a different differential design with 3 mount more robust mount in the subframe. The E30 was never designed to be able to handle that kind of power. The simple fix was to weld reinforcement plates and strengthen the welds on the rear trunk area on the car.
(Still a Bimmer enthusiast but love the new P-Car)
Pete
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
