saddened by my first porsche

I bought my first ever porsche a 996 '04 c4s cabriolet back in august for $24.1k w/ 99k+ miles on the odometer. I had won it through carsandbids and it was located in Vancouver BC. It had a good hx of fixes to include the IMS bearing, some suspension fixes, and clutch replacement. The car looked beautiful with that gorgeous rear end and headlight. I was finally able to get it shipped to WA this month to my dear friends who were kind enough to accept the delivery. Several days later i booked a flight to WA and was able to catch up with my friends for a day before I began my journey back home to IL. I had not test driven the car yet so i was eager to do so. At first it drove quite beautifully but then i noticed a grind when downshifting to 2nd at a higher rpm. I concluded this as operator error thinking it may had been just not depressing the clutch far enough. The following morning as I began my cross country drive home I noticed the grinding again as I downshifted to 2nd at higher rpm when exiting for gas and rest areas. I learned to use my brakes to slow the car down before shifting to 2nd as it does not produce any grinding at lower rpms. Which i should had been doing in the first place... use my brakes and not engine brake. The driving experience was jarring at first because this car is so analog but nonetheless enjoyed it thoroughly. It took some time to get use to the sitting position and the confining cockpit but it became home after a while. I remember going up to the higher elevations in Laramie, WY and waking up to light snow and black ice on the ground. I can say i was a little anxious driving through this as the car have michelin summer tires on. To my surprise it handled quite well even as i saw at least two semi trucks jack knifed to the edge of the highway. The car is also lowered with lowering springs which made me quite cautious for larger ice on the road. I completed by >2.3k miles drive w/o any issues but was physically tired as hell by the time i got home at midnight that Sunday. Now it sits on the garage as my one way "trip" permit had expired. I have quite a busy work schedule so I have not had a chance to go to the DMV to get it registered. So it sits in the garage and i occasionally drive it around my large condo complex to maintain the car's operating status. The previous owner never mentioned issued with the 2nd gear synchro and when i mentioned to him this he believed it to be the shifting cables. I had a friend who is quite an amauture mechanic (owning a BMW M3) who confirmed my fear that the 2nd synchro is worn and not simply misaligned shifting cables. I am upset at myself for not getting a PPI as i simply trusted the seller who I feel is quite trustworthy and i still do. He may have never had the habit of downshifting to 2nd at high rpm and so he never noticed the grinding. So i feel like my appreciation for this car is now stained with a likely bad synchro. I tell myself that i can drive and enjoy this car but just avoid the parameter that produced the grinding. Use my brakes to slow down and not engine brake so much. But it gets me rattled up as i know i will spend $$ money in the near future to get this resolved on my "new to me" car. So this i asked of you much experienced 996 owners... will i be ok with driving this for a while or will i only cause more injury to the transmission? Can someone from Illinois recommend to me a future shop i should visit to have the 2nd gear rebuilt? Someone who is experienced and fair enough with cost? I live in Dundee, IL about an hour northwest of chicago. I am considering just having the transmission fluid replaced first in hope that it may just need replacement. But i am doubtful. -carlo

sounds like you need a qualified mechanic to look the car over and possibly do a complete inspection of the car, so you know what you now own and what issues you may be facing. unless on the track, i stopped aggressive downshifts long ago. i'd prefer to simply wear out my brakes.

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Second this. An actual Porsche mechanic needs to look at the car and give you a thorough PPI.

in order of proximity and loosely based on observation for trans / engine work I would consider Midwest Eurosport https://www.midwesteurosport.com Fischer Motors https://www.fischermotors.net Euroquipe http://euroquipe.com I've had work done at both Midwest & Fischer with no complaints you can message me for more details

Don't be saddened....this type of thing happens. Once fixed you will forget about this and enjoy a wonderful car.

I watched all the 996's pass on C&B. I just looked up your car and I recall seeing it go by at a very good price. You got a C4S cab with reasonable miles, the hard top and IMS done for around $26k which I doubt would sell less than $30k here in San Diego with our weather premium. No doubt it stings a little to have to spend some cash so soon but if that's the only problem (fingers crossed), not bad at all. Note too that for better or worse you saved around $300 not getting a PPI. I think when you buy any new vehicle you should expect to spend a minimum $1k to sort it out and catch it up (I am). Changing the gear oil is an easy try, especially if you can do it yourself (I'm doing mine next week). Do the front diff while you are at it. I also don't think it will hurt the trans further to just keep driving it. I tend to use the brakes more when it comes to 2nd gear anyway since the 2nd gear sync is always the first to go. My C2 is a triple black Conv too. Due to buyer/seller scheduling I couldn't arrange a PPI so I had to go with my inspection (FWIW) and my gut. I now live in constant, agonizing, cold sweating fear that something terrible will go wrong and would gladly pay a psychiatrist $20k to cure me. Well, not quite that bad but the car has met my expectations so far.

I wouldn�t be sad. You bought an $80+ car (when 80+ was a lot of money) for mid 20�s. It�s almost 20yrs old. What�s another $10k to get it closer to the day it left the showroom??? I get immense satisfaction and appreciate my 911�s more and more with every successful DIY project. Enjoy the journey! It�s just beginning.

All part of the journey. Get it to a Porsche mechanic to diagnose and in the mean time try rev matching during your downshifts. Happy motoring!

Hmm, aggressive downshifting? Wear out my brakes or wear out my engine? I think I'll wear out my brakes, cheaper and easier to fix.

Unless you are proficient in heel and toe, use your brakes to slow the car and the trans to accelerate the car.

I’m not seeing why a full inspection is necessary, as some have suggested. Why not just focus on the issue at hand? I’d start by changing the trans oil and see if the situation improves.

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Agreed. Changes worn brakes is much easier and cheaper than changing a worn clutch or transmission.

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Meh. Good advice if you are only interested in getting from point A to point B or polishing your car with a diaper. If you bought your car to drive it, shifting and toe/heel is a major part of the experience.

Congrats on your new car! What's "high rpm's"? If you must down shift at higher rpm's, at the very least you should be "rev matching" to the best of your ability - this takes some of the pressure off the synchros... Just so you know, the second gear synchro is somewhat notorious in the G96 6 peed manual trans-axle (know to wear out prematurely on some). These guys are sort of the de-facto specialists... http://www.gboxweb.com/996specs.html http://www.gboxweb.com/996reman.html Good Luck

I didn't realize heel/toe downshifting was aggressive. I mean, I am matching revs so I don't upset the balance of the car right? Anyway, shhhhhhh, don't tell my beauty. I don't want her to think I am abusing her. D.

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Meh. Good advice if you are only interested in causing unnecessary wear and tear. Heal/toe has a place and a purpose. Do you drive around town at 30mph with your spoiler up too? I wouldn�t generally characterize it as abuse. Heal/toe on some curvy roads or at the track is just what Dr. Porsche wanted us to do. But doing heal/toe everywhere including at the stoplights or to slow the car as the OP stated?

When I was in an SCCA racing school back in the early 90‘s, our instructor suggested a book by Jackie Stewart, and told us Jackie Stewart suggested to not slow the car by downshifting. He said that you should only use brakes to slow the car.. „Brake pads are cheaper than transmissions.“ “Smooth = fast.“

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^^^ Ha - yeah I think (Sir) Jackie Stewart's opinion goes a long way...The idea of the downshift is to be in the proper gear and at the proper engine RPM to carry speed/power thru/out of a turn. Downshifting too aggressively does nothing but unsettle the car and over stress your clutch and engine. "Engine Braking" is not a good idea generally speaking...

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I'd be extremely interested in how rev matching downshifts causes unnecessary wear and tear. Does too much upshifting cause unnecessary wear too? Where do you draw the line on necessary versus unnecessary? Do you park the car and not drive it? Do you drive around limiting shifting and braking as much as possible? Most people buy these cars to be driven. Cars that are driven regularly and driven well seem to fare better than those that are nursed around town. Clearly the OP wants to drive the car and it's not functioning as designed. He/she needs to solve this issue so the car can be properly enjoyed.

I use Midwest Eurosport. They are excellent. Have used them for nearly 15 years.

Don't kick yourself too hard, Carlo. You've got a gorgeous new 911 4S that you paid used Camry money for and you are experiencing your first joys of being a classic sports car owner. Be thankful it's your gearbox and not an engine tick. Welcome to the madness! ​​​

Why do people trust sellers from auction sites? BAT and Cars and Bids are the biggest scams going. They collect a percentage of the sale with absolutely no responsibility.

Curious if the car came with an aftermarket short shifter

This thread got off topic pretty quickly. Have you tried rev matching (as others suggested) in order to downshift? You can rev match (heel toe) to get it into gear and still use brakes to slow the car down when entering a corner.

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I had second gear synchro issues like you describe. I changed the fluid as soon as I figured out there was an issue and all was fine for a while until I went to my first autocross. On my last run second gear started popping out when I let off the throttle. I tried to bandaid it with the gbox detent but that did nothing. This was in July I drove the car just fine until November when my mechanic was ready to rebuild the transmission. I was able to drive it with out causing anymore damage but you never know what else could go wrong. Ultimately you will need 2nd gear rebuilt but you can live with it until you are ready to do it.

As many said, you got a great car at a good price. They all need a little money put into them.

If you do a proper double-declutch rev-matching downshift, nothing will wear out. So you're in third: press the clutch, move the shifter to neutral; now release the clutch and quickly apply just enough throttle to rev-match to the second gear that you're about to engage. Then press the clutch again and quickly move into second. If you time it well and apply the right amount of throttle, it will be buttery smooth. Now release the clutch again while still applying the throttle so the clutch doesn't have to do anything. This seems unwieldy at first but really becomes second nature after a while. If you're just rev-matching without a double declutch, you don't wear out the clutch but the synchro still has to do all the work. Now usually you do this while approaching a corner, so you want to brake at the same time. This is where heel and toe comes in: you brake with the tip of your foot and apply the rev-matching on the throttle with your heel at the same time. This takes a lot of practice to do well but it is so satisfying!

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Exactly right. This can be done in regular driving, not just sporty, spirited or racing. It will increase the longevity of the transmission and clutch both. The reason 2nd gear synchros go out on this car - or any car - is that people don�t do this. They slam into 2nd gear as fast as they want, which wears out out the synchros and even the clutch if done fast enough.

Heal toe shifting, once you master it, is something you end up doing around town and don't even realize you are doing it. Drives my daughter nuts. Soon it will be a lost art in this day and age of driver aids.

Enjoy you car by the way. Nothing better than a 996. Had mine for 18 years and every year or so I find a little or big project to do to get it the way I want it. More fun than a 55 year old is allowed to have. Wait till you get involved with the Chicago PCA. Great people, great events and great ideas/solutions to whatever you are working on with your car.

Pffffffttttt ! Just fix it .. Replacing 1st-2nd gear syncro is about a 3-4 hour job for a seasoned Porsche tech that knows his way around a G96 transmission. The problem you will have is FINDING a seasoned Porsche tech that knows his way around a G96 trans.(and willing to just do a 1-2 syncro instead of a full rebuild) Driving the car will only make things worse and can end up with down time and more expense, needing a new gear(s) or a complete rebuild.

"So it sits in the garage and i occasionally drive it around my large condo complex to maintain the car's operating status." You'll wanna make sure you are at least getting it up to operating temp before putting it back to bed.

I own the same car same year, mine was much lower mileage and top condition all around. I enjoy it thoroughly and I frequently downshift and match the revs. That is what a normally aspirated Flat 6 is made for. Drive her, enjoy her. But I would definitely recommend a once over by a qualified shop. Highly rewarding to drive and you will not regret it.

In a sports car of that age and mileage, with a manual, wear on the gearbox, pressure plate, clutch and throw-out bearing isn't unexpected. The condition of the interior, controls and body would weigh heavily on the decision to buy. These were in good order in your example, as you wrote, then you didn't do badly in your purchase. Of course, the synchro could have used as a point to bargain further on the price. Be prepared to undertake the "while you're there" replacements when the box comes out.

Guys --------- thank you for all the kind words, reassurances, and feedback! The heal toe, rev matching technique will be something I will absolutely learn. As most have pointed out as soon as i get the time to actually get this car registered I can actual see a porsche mechanic or an independent one mentioned above to get this properly diagnosed. I am just amazed by how welcoming and helpful you all are! I've belonged to some other car forums but by far you guys are the most responsive, positive, and helpful. I very much look forward to enjoying the car for many years and learning how to do my own maintenance. I will make sure to come back to this post and update the progress on what the mechanic finds and recommend for treatment. Again. Thank you. Carlo

I had the same issue when I got my 100K mile 996. Second gear was crunchy and tended to grind at anything over 4K RPM. I eventually sent the trans out to Gbox. Dont want to discourage you, but you're most likely going to replace second gear all together (about $2500). Second gear syncro issues are common and when ran for long enough, that tends to eat away at the gear itself. I couldnt find anyone local that would even touch the trans (I'm in Chicago). Your best bet is to get a pro on it. Parts for the trans are pretty expensive. Alternatively, you can buy a used trans and roll the dice or find a cheap trans for a couple hundred and send that out for a rebuild to save on down time. Call the guys at Gbox and have a chat, they're very helpful.

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Interesting...I've never double-clutched on downshifts. Never occurred to me that there was an advantage. A new thing to learn! 996 is in storage for winter so I am driving an '18 M3 that has auto-rev matching (which I normally turn off by selecting Sport Plus for throttle response on startup). It'll be interesting to see how the system handles double-clutching.

Double clutching is pointless on this car and certainly not done on the track.

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Yes, very good suggestion! 1st and 2nd gears are at the top of the gear stack and can be easily removed once the nose cone is off. I would look for a transmission shop instead of a Porsche shop. Many people think that driving it will not do harm but it does. Every time you grind, you are making metal dust and this can end up with a need to replace not just the synchro but the gear too and that's an expensive part.

Syncros must not be that worn if second gear isn't grinding on the upshift. You may have said it, but at what rpm are you downshifting? Maybe, let the rpm's drop lower before you downshift.