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YOUR RESEARCHImitation...most sincere form of flattery...
Leading reported evidence
Install free including new turbo and oil cooler
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
New short block was installed for free including new turbo and oil cooler.
Leading evidence: 'Install free including new turbo and oil cooler' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Install free including new turbo and oil cooler' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Use engines cost about $2k, rebuilds start at $4-5k
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
HP out of the motor...and used engines cost about $2k, rebuilds start at $4-5K.
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Suggestion
Every recent model Subaru I've been in lately, just run of the mill outbacks, hasn't got me on whatever magic there is about their brand.
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Suggestion
Here's one of my old Subaru's back in the day with STI RA spec conversion down to ~1900lbs running stage 3 setup with ~340whp.
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Suggestion
Both running stock with the same driver and similar conditions.
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47 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
I see no difference between the Outback and the Panamera.
While riding in the kid's new Subaru WRX I commented positively about the ride and handling. His reply was that Subaru has tried to duplicate the handling of the Porsche 911. This kid is a 37 yo mechanical engineer and does his research before buying a new car. I can't verify his statement nor his source, but I tend to believe him. He has driven my C4S and I could tell he enjoyed it by the goofy smile(same one I get)!
It's funny that we try and compare our car to ones that are 15 years newer, and it's even better that they still hold up pretty well.
=)
I wonder if Subaru copied the IMS issue?
Chiamac: Subie didn't copy the IMS problem but the kid's first one spun a rod bearing at less than 30k miles under warrantee. New short block was installed for free including new turbo and oil cooler. Tech. told him this has been a problem with his year of car. Kid did not mistreat the car prior to failure.
All: My point of the original post was not to compare our cars to turbocharged "new" cars with a tune. It was simply bragging on how good our cars really are and how they are respected for what our cars do/how they do it. My bet is the kid would trade straight across with me.
I'll have to ride in something other than a 911 sometime but...
Every recent model Subaru I've been in lately, just run of the mill outbacks, hasn't got me on whatever magic there is about their brand. The interior seems like any other car, a lot of plastic and nothing special (same goes for the 2015 911 gt3 I was in this summer), and the ride didn't feel special, and nothing about it made me want to go out and buy one for my next winter car.
Yes some people like them, and I guess they do stand up well to time (although my 98 cherokee is going on 190k miles now), but I just can't see the magic.
Which is what's really nice about our cars. Although we complain, they really seemed to have been designed well, the ride is good for what it is, and the performance is there.
For Canadians, the turbo Subarus make for excellent DD's. great cars with 4 doors that will haul a family around with ease while still being very fun to drive. yeah, the interior is cheap and it rusts like every other Japanese car out there but it's got an amazing AWD system and a torquy turbo flat 4 that makes you feel like Ken block on a day there's a snow storm.
I looked forward to snow storms when I had my subaru....a **** eating grin on my face every time we got a good dump.
now driving a lexus IS awd as my DD and it's totally not the same. the fit and finish is great on the lexus, really great, but it's driving characteristics are no where near the WRX I had. really miss that car.
Nah that's easy. Owning an Outback shows you've given up on life and/or you may be in need of a bath as you are a hippy. Owning a Panny shows that you have so much money you can throw it away on completely pointless and hideous things.
In my experience there is no middle ground with them. Either you love them or you're ambivalent at best.
My brother-in-law had an Impreza that he couldn't wait to justify getting rid of as it was constantly having issues, was uncomfortable, and stuff literally fell off (interior) driving down the road.
My mother-in-law, on the other hand, loves her POS Outback. It is the most god awful thing to ride in though, it also seems to be in the shop every other time we talk to her, had a 3" rust hole in a rocker panel at less than 2 years which they refused to warranty, and it also likes to shed interior bits like my dog sheds.
I am tempting by the STI from time to time, but it would damn sure never be a care I had any dependency on. The last of the good gravel roads near me just got paved though so it doesn't even have that going for it anymore...
"A Subaru with a tune and a blower will beat a 996"
Yes but then you have live with driving around in a Subaru.... And looking like you are 15 or a
j-rkoff all the time. I'll keep my 996.
The fact that many Subarus use horizontally-opposed (boxer) engines is a second similarity...
In snowy climates - mountain towns, specifically - Subies are HUGELY popular. They don't cost a fortune and the four-wheel drive is a huge benefit when you're dealing with snow and ice, especially when your iced-over driveway has a 25% grade.
I have for years been kicking around getting an older WRX to do some rallycross and to have something to drive on the unmaintained roads and fire roads near our place in the mountains, but I only have a 1-car garage there, and it's nice to be able to park whatever I drove in the garage and skip the snow and ice removal every morning...
The '04 RX-8 is down on power compared to the 996, but the 9000 RPM redline and the fact that the cars actually get a bit faster as they age makes it a decent comparison. The official 0-60 time was a rather sedate 6.5 seconds, but 5.7-5.9 isn't unheard of. Mazda doesn't make luxury cars, but between the RX-8 and the Miata, they do know how to make good drivers' cars.
The 8 takes boost pretty well; for $5K, you can wring 350+
reliable
HP out of the motor...and used engines cost about $2k, rebuilds start at $4-5K.
The NSX overlaps the 996 for a number of years, and they sold at about the same price point. I don't think the NSX is particularly laughable...
I don't think comparing a $90,000 Porsche to a $20,000 Japanese econobox is a fair match, but suggesting that the 996 completely outstrips everything imported from Japan during that era is a losing proposition.
All of that said, with the exception of the NSX, the Japanese cars aren't timeless like the 911. That's why I drive a 911...it's an icon. I have owned lots of cars...some total crap, some not; some slow, some faster than the 996, but none that evoked the same feeling that I get from my Porsche.
Don't discredit the STi, it's a very fun and cheap car (early STi's are about the same price as 996.1) that can take an absolute beating. Stock, the current WRX will outrun a 996 and all STi's (2004+) are on par with 996. The difference is, a tune for the Subaru costs less than mufflers for the 996 and the Subaru picks up 30whp. At which point, the 996 doesn't stand a chance.
Are you sure you do not look like a jerk off in your 996?
I clarified in the post above, same era cars.
Consider that A80 TT supra, 3000 GT VR4, NSX, EVO VII were all made around the time 996 went live. Supra and NSX held their value far better than 996 in any trim. And every car on the list could keep up with the NA 996 in straight line and in turns.
I'll settle this now since I own both cars and track them too.
They are two totally different cars that act differently when pushed. I know this would be a hard one for people to accept on this site, but the STi has the edge on the 996 on the track. Both running stock with the same driver and similar conditions. The STi has slightly more power and a lot more torque. It also has electronics when left on help push it to the limit.
I love driving them both just as much. You get more respect with the Porsche, but people automatically think you're rolling in money. The 996 is way better to pick up a date to go to dinner than the rowdy STi.
As far as interiors are concerned my 2011 STi has a way nicer interior with Alcantera seats. The 996s interior is very dated when you compare the two.
The two things they both have in common is that they both have ticking time bomb engines. The USDM STi has cast pistons which tend to crack the ring lands when modified beyond stock. I've known people with over 200k miles with modified STis that lasted just fine so its a crap shoot just like the m96 engine.
Both my STi and 996 have engine failure. The STi has cracked ringlands and my 996 has intermix.
Here is where the STi has the advantage. I purchased a fully built road race engine (long block) that handles 700hp at 9k rpm for $10k and I don't have to return a core. I am still saving to send my 996 to Flat 6 for a complete rebuild that will cost double than a race Subaru engine. Flat 6 is the only builder that I would trust to build my engine so I can wait until I'm financially ready.
I love both these cars and they can't compare on what they do best, but to bash on either car is childish.
Good comparison... But You are comparing a 2011 Subaru with electronic aids to your 1999 ? C2.
In your scenario above a 2011 C2 would Spanky the 2011 Subaru....with no IMS intermix issues.
2011 C2 would probably spank the 2011 STi, but then its not a 996 and its also almost triple the price. Where a STi with $50k into it would spank the 2011 C2.
Starting to feel bad about starting this thread. It was not an attempt to start a Brand battle. Nor was it a shot across the bow to start a discussion about which car is fastest. I was just proud that another major automobile manufacturer would consider the 911 as a worthy vehicle to try to copy in the handling department. Unless you are on a race track who really cares which car is fastest?
Exactly, we were comparing a 996 to an STi but somehow the STi was compared to a 2011 C2. Comparing cars to cars 1/3 of the price never works out. They are just meant for different objectives, unless you're just using it to go from point A to point B then they are the same.
This didn't start a brand battle for me as I'm a car enthusiast and not a brand enthusiast.
I've never heard of Subaru trying to copy the handling of a 911 and it would be impossible unless the engine was moved to the rear to mimic its on throttle and off throttle handling. The only major thing they have in common is the boxer style engine layout.
Both are awesome cars and I would never bash either or any other car.
Don't feel bad Wildbilly32, what happened to your thread is what happens to at least 90% of all threads here on Rennlist. People post reasonable or semi-reasonable questions, statements, or experiences and then their threads are highjacked by the usual suspects and turned into something no reasonable person ever intended them to be.
If the "web-master" in charge of Rennlist would delete all the responses that have absolutely nothing to do with an original thread this place might actually be useful. What we have now is NOT a 996 enthusiast board, it's a bully pulpit, pissing match, I'm better than you, look at me, I'm so clever, gossip column, scandal sheet, mess.
Perhaps someday Rennlist will be the Gestapo-controlled utopia that ejdoherty dreams of. Of course, that would also require the deletion of every non-technical thread (like this one).
I love it when someone writes an off-topic two-paragraph diatribe carping about people being off-topic. Makes perfect sense. But I'm just a bully pulpit, pissing match, I'm better than you, look at me, I'm so clever, gossip column, scandal sheet, mess collaborator. I should probably be rounded up and "re-educated" so I better follow the rules.
Although the 996 forum is just a subset of the "board," I see a number of 996 enthusiasts here. Unfortunately, enthusiasts tend to be enthusiastic - weird, I know - which sometimes results in debate, friction, and even occasional hilarity. It's terrible.
5CHN3LL: As you are aware, there is a website with a similar name that runs strict "stick to the subject with advise/answers only" or the mod will jump in with both feet. Both types of sites have their place and I enjoy both.
I get it, Bill. I also get that this thread was an opinion being expressed, and I find it funny that someone got all bent out of shape because there were _other_ opinions being expressed in an opinion thread.
As far as your original post, it is kinda funny to imagine that Subaru has tried to duplicate the handling of the 911, since the handling in the earlier 911's was somewhere between "lethal" and "occasionally manageable." However, controllable tail-happiness is an asset for rally cross, so I can understand the sentiment even if it does strike me as humorous that Subaru endeavors/endeavored to duplicate the handling of a vehicle that for 30+ years was determined to put you in a ditch backwards. On fire.
haven't driven the latest generation Subaru chassis, but can say the earlier ones are very fun and engaging...although they don't feel like a 911-and shouldn't based on configuration....(nor does a Boxster, 944, Cayenne, M3, etc...)
Subaru's are also pretty easy/smart to work on...
Considering an earlier STI for a daily beater.
Cheers,
I'm not sure how Subaru tried to mimmic the 911's handing since the chassis is literally the exact opposite of an AWD 911. The two feel nothing alike and require a completely different driving style to get around corners fast (if you take a 911 into a corner with a fast STi line, you'll be spinning and if you take a STi into a corner with a fast 911 line, you'll miss the turn.) Both are incredibly fun in their own ways, but Subaru isn't imitating the 911 on any level.
The performance aspect of the Subaru's is to give the rest of you fair warning since most of the WRXs & STi/STIs you're going to encounter are not stock.
I blew a ringland on one of my '04 STi's when it was at 400whp. After the engine build it became a 8500rpm 700+whp monster. But in stock form, the EJ257 motors are quite stout if kept under 350whp.
996 sport interior < 2004-2007 STi < 996TT full leather interior
The AWD system of the STi (of 996 vintage) is far ahead of the 996's, locking diffs with automatic or manual transfer of power and gears that can take lots of abuse.
I don't know which years have the manually adjustable torque vectoring, but that sh*t is awesome. The GTR is considered cool because of all of the information you have at your fingertips; Subaru went one better years ago allowing the user to personalize the power delivery. If my C4 had been equipped with a system like that, I probably wouldn't have ripped the FWD stuff out.
Yup.
Which is why, although it's fun to argue and hold opinions about cars, all that counts is that the owner is happy.
Unless they are the owner of a 944 or 928, in which case, according to the political forum here, they are unhappy and crabby all the time.
[QUOTE]As far as your original post, it is kinda funny to imagine that Subaru has tried to duplicate the handling of the 911, since the handling in the earlier 911's was somewhere between "lethal" and "occasionally manageable."
However, controllable tail-happiness is an asset for rally cross, so I can understand the sentiment even if it does strike me as humorous that Subaru endeavors/endeavored to duplicate the handling of a vehicle that for 30+ years was determined to put you in a ditch backwards. On fire
/QUOTE]
5CHN3LL: Thanks for that smile!
+996
This guy is correct. If you look at any of the interviews done in Japanese of the engineers at Subaru, this is what they said.
They admit that they tried to mimic the asymetrical drivetrain layout(albeit front engine) including keeping a longitutanal tranmission/engine configuration and boxer motor to keep the center of gravity low. Later on in 2001 ROW, they came out with one of the ugliest models in their lineup by trying to mimic Porsche's round headlights. Finally, they came to their senses in 2004 ROW and took off the hideous round lights off. Ironically, I bought one of the first of these models in the USA since the WRX model was never available in the states before(at least through the dealer channel).
Up til today,the asymetrical design imo is great engineering as you could take away all the complex electronic aids and it would still handle great. You can't say the same thing about it's main rival, the EVO which has a transverse setup with less than ideal weight distributions and heavily relies on it's electronic nannies to make it handle good.
Here's one of my old Subaru's back in the day with STI RA spec conversion down to ~1900lbs running stage 3 setup with ~340whp. That was a fun car.
Ugh.... Ugly boring counter culture 4 door econobox. Not my cup of tea.
Ok it seems to have some "roarty" internals but the polar inertia opposite of a timeless designed car.
I have a Subaru Outback , I've had a couple .
Great cars , bloody bulletproof and great in the snow .
Our current one is the 2010 3.6 r . Another boxer 6 motor .
I kind of have a boxer motor thing , I've owned a heap of VWs , Air and water cooled .
Bmw motor bikes , I still have a 1982 r100rs , and I've had a few modern ones too.
I had a jdm wrx sti in the UK for a while , amazing fun . Fast too, 300hp.
But I like my c2 better
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