996 turbo vs GT2

This topic was certainly done to death on other forums but I thought it would be interesting to sample the knowledge of the Carpokes appreciation society. Is the GT2 worth the premium over a run-off-the-mill turbo? Does it just take a couple of turbos, different intercoolers, a retune and deleting the FWD on a turbo to turn it into a GT2, cosmetical differences left aside?

If you are just comparing bang for your buck, I'm sure you could make a 996 Turbo out-perform a 996GT2 on both the track and the drag strip for less than the price of a GT2. GT2 was a cool car, but it's pretty much a collector car these days, with collector car prices. 996 Turbo is a hot-rodder's car (less so than 10 years ago, but still). If you plan to mod it, I'd get the turbo; if you want a special factory car, and plan to enjoy it in factory form, and don't mind the price tag, then I'm sure the GT2 is awesome. I can't see it makes much sense to buy a GT2 if you plan to hot rod it, since you'd be killing the value you paid for, and since you can get to pretty much the same place (sans prestige/collectability) putting the same hot-rod parts on a regular turbo.

The figures suggest that a bone stock GT2 will not be satisfying performance-wise but the point would be more about learning how to drive it properly which may compensate more than enough with the conservative engine output. With that said, if it does not feel that fast in a straight line then as you say the regular turbo would be the better choice as a potential hot rodder... but I am really unsure if at this stage in my life I want to get carried away in another heavily modified car that will end up as another money pit as the 944T does that well enough already.

Have you considered a 991 Turbo? Right off the lot, it will impress you in a straight line and on the track. From there, very slight mods can make it into a beast. Before I got my 991 Turbo S, I was in the market for a 996 Turbo and test drove quite a few. As a power-junkie, I was generally not impressed with the stock cars, and a lot of them came with the tiptronic transmission, which seemed a lot more like a regular automatic transmission to me. Nice cars, don't get me wrong, but just wonder if it's the right base for you... The tuned ones were faster and funner, but the ones I drove all had torque steer and other quirks that detracted from the experience. I'm sure you can get them to where you'd want it, but I think it will take some effort and cost as much or more than a newer car with the same or better performance. If you haven't driven a 991 or 992 Turbo, you should give one a try. With the rear weight bias, PDK, and 4WD grip, they are effortlessly and impressively fast. They don't have the drama as a high power 944, but it would take a mighty-well sorted 951, with a great driver, to beat a mildly tuned 991 turbo on a drag strip. They run in the 9's with a tune and a few weekend bolts-ons...

I'm sure the 991/2 are ballistic but they never came with 3 pedals so that rules them out. AFAIK the last turbo that came with a manual gearbox was the 997.1 but I prefer the look of the 996 that apparently is more of an analogue drive. The only 996 turbo I drove was retuned to around 600hp but the stock turbos seemed overstretched and the torque collapsed above 5500 rpm. I wasn't convinced at all when stepping out as at moderate speeds the car seemed like it tried to over-behave itself and it did not feel very natural... Perhaps have to start from scratch and see how it feels today.

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Exactly. I drove a few 996's in various 'tuned' forms, and the combination of torque steer and less-specific chassis squirm made it feel exactly as you say. Have you driven a true PDK car? Paddle shifting may not be as fun as a real clutch, but its fun in its own way and certainly better than an automatic. More to the point, they out-perform a manual in virtually every situation, and by a wide margin for outright acceleration times. Technically, the 997 was not the last 911 Turbo with manual. They made a 992 Turbo with a manual, called the Sports Classic. It was a detuned version of my car with 7-speed manual. It's cool and all, but I could never wrap my head around paying 2 or 3 times the price of a 992 Turbo S for a car that takes nearly twice as long to get to 60mph.... https://finder.porsche.com/us/en-US/det ... ned-QKXEG8

991.2 and 992 Carreras are all turbo now, and you can get them in a manual and rear wheel drive too. Also, easy to tune and add 100 hp if you want to do that.

@Tom Ouch. That's way more than what I'd be willing to ever spend in a car even if I had the money. I have not driven a PDK, but generally speaking my brain just can't deal with flappy paddles. They are totally unnatural for me. I'd rather drive a fully automatic car. The 996 turbo always had a reputation for being a bit of boring and driving itself whilst just letting the driver think he was in charge, but this is where I'm curious how "better" the GT2 with no driving aids would be at giving a fuller, uncomputerised rear engine experience without the time and effort required to mod a 996 turbo... assuming a decent example could be found at a "reasonable" price. I might only replace the DMF with a GT3 flywheel to get some proper throttle response.

You should drive a PDK before ruling it out, but Marin makes and excellent point about the manual 911s that are turbocharge but not called Turbos. Those are screaming to be hot-rodded...

Ok, I'll try to drive a PDK. With that said, these cars are electronically too modern to trigger my interest. A friend who runs an independent garage servicing 80% of Porsches including 992s says the 996 is already right at the limit of what "we" folks who require having control over most electronic things on a hobby car may accept.

Had a look at a 996 GT2 yesterday. The car looked almost too good to be honest considering the "attractive" price and I ended up spotting a very subtle misalignment between the bottom rear of the outer door skin and the sill whilst the other side was perfect... No records of accident despite the car having been apparently given the green light by Porsche. I walked away. It was a long time since I had seen a 996 turbo/GT2 and was shocked by the overall "industrial" finish lacking a certain finesse compared with the 944T and this just shows how more modern these 996s are. I may have a fundamental appreciation problem with post 2000 cars of any kind.

The door closing sound is what I wish my 997 had :-/

@Maruscmn Interesting you mention that as its one of the first things I noticed the first time I drove a 951 around 1987 and one of the reasons I bought mine years later in 2004. Its one of the small inputs that go into the subconscious impression of build quality the first time you look at a car in the "showroom environment" even before you start the engine. I worked in a group that focused on what went into those critical first minutes when a consumer made a decision the first time they looked at a car.

It's the feeling, either perceived or tactile, that gives me the impression someone put their heart into the manufacturing of the vehicle I was now piloting. Smell, sound, and feel. Im about to convince myself I need another 944....

Since we were talking about hot rodding 991.2 Carreras… here’s a video of taking a base Carrera engine and getting 700hp.

That's a pretty impressive 911T! I wonder if it would pass CA smog?

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Ha! In CA, definitely not. CA smog is the most restrictive. In 2021 CA Smog added a requirement that if a vehicle has a ECU tune, then that tune needs to be approved by CARB. It can validate against the ECU if a tune has been applied. (maybe if you can flash back to stock for the smog, then you could bias this...).

"The widowmaker" they called it... definitely a car that needs a high level of alert.

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I watched the passenger's right hand grip - he remained calm - impressive. That was quite the recovery by the driver, even more impressive!

I love that he continues pushing it like nothing happened. Youth in action there.... I'd probably idle home at that point and then write about the Great Slide Recovery of 2012 online for years to come.

I'd put this more on experience and knowledge than youth - if you look at the other videos of this guy on his youtube channel he seems to know really well how to handle rear engined cars.

Regarding the 996 T vs. GT2, I couldn't fathom paying the premium for a clean 996 GT2 as a drivers car. As mentioned previously they have taken on more of a collector's car status and are priced as such and at that price point much more performance can be had elsewhere if that is more the goal for the ownership experience vs more of a garage queen. From a pure performance perspective the 991s are amazing but I still struggle with their dimensions and like others I like a traditional manual transmission, regardless what 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are. I'm a twisty rural mountain road driver and for my driving engagement rowing my own gears with a 3rd pedal is paramount. I am coming to the realization that while I can certainly appreciate the more "modern" cars and the technology and capability, I prefer the analog cars and I think my 997 is about as modern as I would like. I find myself lusting after a slightly modded early 911 but my bank account and other hobbies/life tell me to slow my roll on that thought. My wife has 2 horses and competes with them and that hobby makes air cooled horsepower seem affordable..........

As a follow up I had a passenger ride in a 997.1 turbo recently after helping a friend replace the clutch and thought it was an underwhelming experience. I wanted hard to like it but ended up feeling estranged to the whole thing. A 996 may be a little more lively and overall they may just be cars that need driving time to "get" them but purchasing one to just give it a potentially expensive try feels at this stage like signing a blank check to some not really trustworthy banking councillor.

I think for some of us we are entering a bit of the "you don't want to meet your heros" phase as there is a potential for disappointment. For many of the "pinnacle" cars of their times, the Turbo generations etc. I think it is important to view them through the perspective of what was common for performance levels at their actual time of release. Today we have early 2020s V6 Camrys doing 5.1 to 60 which in theory will walk away from a mid 80s 911 Turbo, we have a pedestrian Ford Mach E on the EV side dropping low 3 secs to 60 etc. So from a pure numbers standpoint and especially pure acceleration standpoint some of our coveted models can potentially be underwhelming. Which is why I think the real fizz of these cars are the driving dynamics, balance and overall driving experience; that is where the true value and enjoyment of an enthusiast car is for me. I have encountered this dynamic with music as well as a drummer for 40+ years it is common for the younger you tube crowd to be underwhelmed with John Bonham, Ringo, Steve Gadd etc. and what they are missing is how revolutionary they were compared to what had been done up to their time. Comparing them, or comparing a 997 Turbo to today's standards for performance will most likely leave many underwhelmed. Just my $0.02

I didn't mean I was underwhelmed by the straight line performance which seemed more than adequate but the car didn't feel anywhere near like the sum of its parts, a bit like a top model with little to no conversation - there was no communication going on that made me want ask for more. The tuned 996 turbo I drove 10+ years ago didn't feel quite as polished and that is a definitive plus. I never considered a 911 as a hero car, my first encounter with one was a 2.7 RS my Dad was lent for a weekend and thought it was horrible. I prefer to type this in small letters to avoid getting stoned...

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Interesting and understandable take. Almost an over engineered "sterile" approach to going about its business perhaps..... My father is a Corvette guy and the previous owner of my 911 (he had it for 14 years) but I don't think he ever really got on the same page as the 911. He liked it, but his C6 Grand Sport (which he still has at 79 years old) is where his heart is. I remember comparing them by saying the 911 is like a scalpel in its precision and execution, the C6 is like a machete, they will both cut things but in much different ways........I hope that makes sense....

Makes perfect sense....I had a friend that was struggling over a choice of 993 and its contemporary Corvette and he kept looking at the numbers...I could not disagree with his quandary but tried to emphasize it was how the numbers were delivered, which was more satisfying on a twisty road and which car spoke to why he enjoyed driving....he ended up with an Aventurine Green 993. Everybody is different and has different reasons why they buy and how they drive and derive pleasure from their choices...