The 997 Appreciation Thread - Page 231 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Since the 996 folks have become hugely popular over the last year and have currently at least two great threads running ( what is an 'early' 3.4 996? and What do you love about the 996? ) I thought the need for a similar thread about the 997. So please join me in posting pictures of your 997 and tell the internet what you love about the 997. What I love most about the 997 is it's form. As has been said in the 996 thread, Harm Lagaay did a great job designing the 996 and the 997 is every bit as pretty with the benefit of round headlamps! Only more beautiful is it's backside I love the size of it, it is a relatively small car compared to an AMG GT, for instance Although it looks rather big compared to a 993 I love how it is an easy car to do some works yourself And I love how it looks covered in foam And it even looks good when your friends take on of those blurry instahippster photos of you So, what do you love about the 997?

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997's - can be great fun

Is that Moorea Beach where you are parked next to the AMG? My wife loves her 997 but not as much as she loves that place

Simply the best looking of the modern 911's. A car I'd love to own in the future.

A 997 is good for a hill climb (I took mine up Jebel Jais yesterday)

Not my car, but I think one of the 'rightest' 911 designs is the 997.1 C2, in grey, with the 'crab claw' alloy wheels, like the one below.

Black ones are best

Steve Rance said: 997's - can be great fun They definitely are, particularly yours .

I like the fact it's a good all rounder. Drive to work or drive to holiday.

Discombobulate said: Is that Moorea Beach where you are parked next to the AMG? My wife loves her 997 but not as much as she loves that place I go to Tabou Beach usually, I think they share the car park

Gone but not forgotten - my atlas grey 997 4S. Brilliant car.

997 GTS. Not quite as good as a GT4 imo, but not far off.

What's not to love? Edited by c4sman on Monday 4th September 23:07

Loving this car. Manual, PSE, Standard suspension.

Bloke in our village has had a 997 GTS drop-top from new. Given his other cars and also his general churn rate of motors, it would appear that, like his Merc SLS, he sees this car as a 'keeper' and I can absolutely see why.

My GTS on a recent run up Holme Moss, Compo & Clegg etc country. Lots of goodies fitted including AeroCup & lowered P suspension, fabulous car, love it...

Digga said: Not my car, but I think one of the 'rightest' 911 designs is the 997.1 C2, in grey, with the 'crab claw' alloy wheels, like the one below. Used to love my crab claws.

I've seen a lot of comments about people saying they don't like the Lobster/Crab Claw wheels but I really like them.

Cheib said: I've seen a lot of comments about people saying they don't like the Lobster/Crab Claw wheels but I really like them. They looked better with 5mm spacers.

Some feel they haven't aged well and look a bit dated.

I went through a stage of being a claw hater, but now think they are very cool. I have said it before but i then the Gen 1 as a whole is ageing really well (if not modded too much) and already looks like a cool classic. The claws also happen to be the lightest 19' gen1 wheel from memory, which I only found out after swapping mine for a set of Carrera Classics at the time, which although looking like a "cleaner" wheel, turned out to be heavier than the standard claws.

Magic919 said: Some feel they haven't aged well and look a bit dated. Now think carefully, was it the crab claws or you being discussed at the time?

c4sman said: I went through a stage of being a claw hater, but now think they are very cool. I have said it before but i then the Gen 1 as a whole is ageing really well (if not modded too much) and already looks like a cool classic. The claws also happen to be the lightest 19' gen1 wheel from memory, which I only found out after swapping mine for a set of Carrera Classics at the time, which although looking like a "cleaner" wheel, turned out to be heavier than the standard claws. Me too, I disliked the claws when they were first launched but now think they are the coolest of the bunch. They look technical somehow and quite Porsche.

My four 997s ....

What do I love? It's unusual and a good allrounder. What do I hate? I'd have to sell it 3 times to buy it's sister GT3...

moonigan said: Loving this car. Manual, PSE, Standard suspension. Loving it to , no PASM ,my favourite colour and the carrera sport wheels what's not to love a 997 at its best! That's a keeper for sure!

WindyM said: What do I love? It's unusual and a good allrounder. What do I hate? I'd have to sell it 3 times to buy it's sister GT3... That.....is stunning

WindyM said: What do I love? It's unusual and a good allrounder. What do I hate? I'd have to sell it 3 times to buy it's sister GT3... uuuhhhh, I'm a sucker for the 997 Targa!! IMO the 4S drivetrain suits the Targa best! Looks lovely!! I especially love the Sport Design wheels Is it PDK or manual?

Filibuster said: Is it PDK or manual? PDK, Paddles, Sport, Sport Plus, PSE

Cheib said: I've seen a lot of comments about people saying they don't like the Lobster/Crab Claw wheels but I really like them. They look better painted!

Here's us experiences the numb steering, crap interior, e-gas throttle somewhere in Europe. Quite a chore obviously.

WindyM said: PDK, Paddles, Sport, Sport Plus, PSE Lovely! Sound really like the perfect drivetrain for a Targa!! And I love the Sport Design steering wheel!! IMO it is the most beautiful airbag wheel Porsche ever produced. Will update the one on mine one day... What is that black box on your dash? Radar detector of some form?

WindyM said: Cheib said: I've seen a lot of comments about people saying they don't like the Lobster/Crab Claw wheels but I really like them. They look better painted! That looks fantastic. Is that/wasn't there a special edition with those painted wheels ?

Love my 4S and its wide rear! Currently in a container on its way to Blighty.

Paddy_N_Murphy said: Nice to see the love for a black Targa as above - Gotta love the ability to cover miles in comfort and speed - what a 911 was made for. Is that Lake Como? Also an average speed of 76mph over 800miles is pretty impressive.. French autoroutes no doubt As you said, although a sportscar it is a great GT car! It is equally good cruising on the Autobahn at speed to cover ground quickly as it is on those tiny backroads around lake como.

Not a bad send off for the 997 I think. Earlier this week And a day later

Paddy_N_Murphy said: Nice to see the love for a black Targa as above - Gotta love the ability to cover miles in comfort and speed - what a 911 was made for. That looks like the first section of Lake Garda as you arrive from Verona direction.

What I also love about the 997 is that it so so many things to so many people. On this thread so far we have seen people taking their C4S to snowy places, some use their their Targa to take the OH on holiday to the lakes in northern Italy, others take their GT3 RS to the Nürburgring or Spa. It can also be used as your daily and be left in an airport carpark! We have seen a pretty wide range of cars with the 996, but with the 997 Porsche have taken that variety to the next level. There is a car in the range for almost everyone. Be it a basic all can do manual C2 coupe, an airy PDK C4S Targa, a furious GT3 RS 4.0, an "every box ticked" Turbo S in loud colurs, a cup car for the racedriver car or a tiptronic C4 convertible for the wife Some like it because of how it looks, some because how it drives. Others love how it is a great allrounder and others like it because of the heritage. We see people using it as a daily driver, other only take in out on high days only, while for other it is a pure track day or race car. That variety is pretty unique and has always been a selling point for the Porsche 911. There are not many other cars around that are equally versatile.

Paddy_N_Murphy said: Filibuster said: What is that black box on your dash? Radar detector of some form? I was going to ask too - is that an aftermarket TMPS ? I've tried a couple. all fall to rats te after about 12 months. How's yours performing ? (if it is one) The black box is a TyrePal, TPMS substitute. This is the later one with a solar panel to recharge. Every cold/damp morning the alert goes off for low battery in all 4 wheels! Once the car (and presumably wheels/tyres) have warmed up, they go off and it works well. Good on track too. PS2s really heat up and pressures rise, Cup 2s increase in temperature but pressures don't increase as high as the PS2s. What I can't report on (thankfully) is how quickly it responds to a blowout. I've heard the update is a few seconds, by which time it could be game over . I have the previous version (which you have to charge up periodically) on two other family cars and that's more reliable.

Cheib said: WindyM said: Cheib said: I've seen a lot of comments about people saying they don't like the Lobster/Crab Claw wheels but I really like them. They look better painted! That looks fantastic. Is that/wasn't there a special edition with those painted wheels ? Not sure. These were refurbished by Chris at Exel wheels. The black is Porsche Turbo Black and the silver rim is painted. It's just our nod to the Fuchs - not a faithful refurbishment. Also, Lobsters are Gen I wheels and my car is a Gen II. It's very hard to find spare Gen II C4S wheels. Even though I'm usually a stickler for the right wheels on the right car, I do really like the Gen I Lobsters!

Filibuster said: On this thread so far we have seen people taking their C4S to snowy places cough* C2S if you mean me.

Magic919 said: cough* C2S if you mean me. Damn, yes I meant you. Looked long and hard at the pictures, saw it is a wide body but couldn't spot whether it has the red strip between the rear lights. Then had a look at your profile and saw you got both a gen2 C2S PDK and a gen2 C4S PDK. I thought "surely he has taken the C4S into the snow" a C4S for when it's raining or snowing and a C2S for when it's not. Or is it C2S for you and C4S for the wife

so many clean cars , what about crumbs, biscuits and outdoor miscellaneous ??

For holiday use, the early trip is the C4S and the late trip C2S (These got reversed four years ago and we never corrected it). The C4S is the blue one. My wife drives it more here and we just share a car when on holiday.

2008, Manual transmission C2S with just 26,000 miles....Meteor grey and factory fit aero kit.(Thinking of selling so P.M if interested!).

Some great cars here guys! Took mine out for a little play at the weekend, they really are wonderful cars and each journey is magical. The 997 series really did produce some incredible cars, from the vanilla C2 all the way through to the 4.0.

So said: nicklambo said: Snip! I'd edit that before it gets pulled, which it will because it's an ad essentially. Be a shame to see a nice photo taken down. How about not quoting what you want edited doofus

The_Doc said: so many clean cars , what about crumbs, biscuits and outdoor miscellaneous ?? That's more like it Doc. PS, pop in when you're passing one day-the knee op wasn't entirely successfull and i should probably organise an appointment

Thanks to Chris from Exel wheels for this refurb job on my Sport Designs (and the photo..)

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LaurasOtherHalf said: That's more like it Doc. PS, pop in when you're passing one day-the knee op wasn't entirely successfull and i should probably organise an appointment Oh, sorry to hear, I'll drop in one eve with a hammer. Text you to arrange. You've got brandy in the house, right?

Love the ability to take on any road. 997.1 C4S Manual.

The_Doc said: LaurasOtherHalf said: That's more like it Doc. PS, pop in when you're passing one day-the knee op wasn't entirely successfull and i should probably organise an appointment Oh, sorry to hear, I'll drop in one eve with a hammer. Text you to arrange. You've got brandy in the house, right? No but plenty of whiskey and a wooden spoon to bite on

My 997 C2S on collection day.....a VERY special day for me. I remember the sleepless night before and the butterflies in my stomach when I was stood next to it with the keys to MY 911 Then I took it on an epic trip through Europe Still think the 997 is a beautiful 911 shape Moved from this to a 997 GT3, which is a truly amazing machine.

Had a few 911's incl GT3 and a souped up back-dated 3.2 by Francis Tutthill.. Had this 3.6 manual, PSE, PASM sports suspension, 26k miles 997 for a year now. Just love the simplicity and feel of the drive. In the real world, its easily fast enough, a hoot to pedal, engine, gearbox, suspension are so sweet....can't see me selling this one for some time.

MrVert said: Had a few 911's incl GT3 and a souped up back-dated 3.2 by Francis Tutthill.. Had this 3.6 manual, PSE, PASM sports suspension, 26k miles 997 for a year now. Just love the simplicity and feel of the drive. In the real world, its easily fast enough, a hoot to pedal, engine, gearbox, suspension are so sweet....can't see me selling this one for some time. Very nice! And can I ask how yo found the Tuthill car you had ? Always fancied a Tuthill Porsche after Chris Harris had Kermit built by them years

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Paddy_N_Murphy said: and the hounds ! So we have had kids, hounds and OHs standing on the seats, but have we had cats yet?

v8ksn said: Nice garage!!! Wish I lived somewhere with the space for that kind of garage

Looks like RSJ in Slough to me.

Filibuster said: So we have had kids, hounds and OHs standing on the seats, but have we had cats yet? Pur-fect

Shaoxter said: Nice garage!!! Wish I lived somewhere with the space for that kind of garage Me too!!! Its the place I bought the car from, RSJ in Slough. This is their handover bay.

GT4P said: Filibuster said: So we have had kids, hounds and OHs standing on the seats, but have we had cats yet? Pur-fect Proof that a 997 attracts pussy.

Maxym said: The Bridport to Abbotsbury road eh? One of my 997's favourite drives .... just avoid mid-summer !

Cheib said: Very nice! And can I ask how yo found the Tuthill car you had ? Always fancied a Tuthill Porsche after Chris Harris had Kermit built by them years Thanks The Tutthill car was a brilliant little thing...wish I'd never sold her.. Getting very expensive to build these now....same car to the spec I had would be well over £100k done properly. Still....lovely things and if you can.....you should

MrVert said: Thanks The Tutthill car was a brilliant little thing...wish I'd never sold her.. Getting very expensive to build these now....same car to the spec I had would be well over £100k done properly. Still....lovely things and if you can.....you should Funnily enough I have been seriously considering building an air cooled 911 to my spec. What was the spec of yours?

Pyrennees July 2016...

Shaoxter said: Nice garage!!! Wish I lived somewhere with the space for that kind of garage We can but dream.... Here's Arash's "garage" or part of it. Now receiving a http://www.hiroboy.com/userfiles/images/sys/produc...

His brother told me there's a special edition GT3 RS he bought too, only for 918 factory buyers. Gotta love Arash. Known him for 30 years

The_Doc said: His brother told me there's a special edition GT3 RS he bought too, only for 918 factory buyers. Gotta love Arash. Known him for 30 years I believe the limited edition car that 918 buyers could buy was a Turbo S rather than a GT3 RS. Uber rare....only 1 ever registered in the UK according to howmanyleft 918 Spyder buyers did get put at the front of the queue for the RS though...guaranteed you an allocation at least towards the end of the 918 run as unbelievably it didn't sell out overnight! In the US is a 918 gives you VIP status and first dibs on every car for something like 10 yrs (as long as you still own the 918) official Porsche US programme. https://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/24/2012-porsche-9...

Yeah he loves his Porsches: Carrera GT and 918 Weissach and more than one GT3, there were also two 924s, a 968Clubsport a 996 Turbo S, a Panamera Turbo S, and then there's Italian exotica....

So said: Funnily enough I have been seriously considering building an air cooled 911 to my spec. What was the spec of yours? 1988 3.2 Carrera Full bare metal respray Tutthill 6 pot brake system with bias control Jenvey throttle bodies Stainless steel sports exhaust SSI heat exchangers Blistein dampers Recaro leather racing seats Mono Prototipo wheel Too much more to list.. 240bhp...Torquey as hell and an absolute hoot to drive

MrVert said: So said: Funnily enough I have been seriously considering building an air cooled 911 to my spec. What was the spec of yours? 1988 3.2 Carrera Full bare metal respray Tutthill 6 pot brake system with bias control Jenvey throttle bodies Stainless steel sports exhaust SSI heat exchangers Blistein dampers Recaro leather racing seats Mono Prototipo wheel Too much more to list.. 240bhp...Torquey as hell and an absolute hoot to drive The 100k you mentioned, does that include the base car?

Here's my Gen 2 S.. My 997 Gen 2 S by Mutton J , on Flickr I'm thinking of making it a project car, so currently making a list of things I'd like to change to make it a little bit more focused for track work whilst still being usable on the road.

So said: The 100k you mentioned, does that include the base car? Yes, however it's finding a good one that's the difficult part now..

MrVert said: Yes, however it's finding a good one that's the difficult part now.. I sold one about 2010 for 13k...: shortly before my mint 930 at £23.5k....

Hopefully collecting my 997 C4S in the next week or two but the catch being i need to fit a child's seat in the rear . Any suggestions please? The little one is 4 going on 24!!! Thanks Phil

The leather seat bottom is just velcroed on, so you can remove that bit to stop it getting marked / damaged.

Ok, thats good to know. Just need to know what brand/seat will actually fit into the rear 997 seats. Thanks, Phil

Halfords basic booster seat for £30ish? Plenty of space in the back of the GTS.

My daily driver. Increasing values made me hesitant about adding lots of miles but then I fitted H&S bypass and I hesitate no longer! 50000 miles will be passed this week - happy times!

This was taken on one my favourite drives through the Yorkshire Moors The one thing I miss about living up north is the access to so many great roads within an hour of Manchester.

Love my gen 2 c2s Buckets,ceramics,lsd and off course manual

paul0843 said: Love my gen 2 c2s Buckets,ceramics,lsd and off course manual Awesome spec! Were those factory options?

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All factory.. was a little bit apprehensive about colour but knew I wouldn't come across spec like that again. Have now grown to love it. Just done over 2000 miles faultlessly on a run to Spain and back . It's a keeper ..

paul0843 said: All factory.. was a little bit apprehensive about colour but knew I wouldn't come across spec like that again. Have now grown to love it. Just done over 2000 miles faultlessly on a run to Spain and back . It's a keeper .. Guards? Probably the best colour for a 997.

I'm lucky enough to have had three 997's, and have loved each one... 1. another vote for 'Seal grey with crab claw', loved the purity of the CarreraS shape, lacked for nothing in terms of performance, just a little nervous with that engine :-o 2. first foray into GT3'dom, a lovely (but poverty spec) gen1, tracked a few times but kept falling out of the seat! Should have waited for a clubsport 3. third time lucky - a Gen2 clubbie with ceramics, the keys to which they will have to prise from my cold dead hand!!

Fl0pp3r said: I'm lucky enough to have had three 997's, and have loved each one... 1. another vote for 'Seal grey with crab claw', loved the purity of the CarreraS shape, lacked for nothing in terms of performance, just a little nervous with that engine :-o 2. first foray into GT3'dom, a lovely (but poverty spec) gen1, tracked a few times but kept falling out of the seat! Should have waited for a clubsport 3. third time lucky - a Gen2 clubbie with ceramics, the keys to which they will have to prise from my cold dead hand!! Lovely selection there! I'm dithering about 997 GT3s (still). Aside from falling out of the non bucket seats, was there a lot of tangible difference between .1 and .2 GT3?

Fl0pp3r said:

Been lurking these forums for many years, very rarely post but this thread got my attention... I purchased my 997.2 C2S manual in December and I bloody love it. I think it's a keeper - can't see me ever selling it on

Ouch, that may fail an MOT.

GT4P said: Fl0pp3r said: Just sodding lovely. I know some people prefer the 997.1 and a lot of people prefer the 996 iterations but I just love the look of the 997.2 GT3.

ATM said: I know where that is! Right next to where I live. I'm glad to also have a trusty Audi S4 for those kind of conditions! Also, what hit your windscreen??

anonymous said: [redacted] All motorway but if you've ever driven on an Italian motorway a reasonable way south of the European mainland you'll know they have serious bends and lots of sections with only 2 lanes. The good news is even though the average Italian motorist has no concept of lane discipline, using mirrors, judging speed and perception of death they dont feel the need to express their disgust at someone from another country making very good progress on their roads.

anonymous said: [redacted] You can see in my image above this was 2005 New Years Eve. It has changed now. They have a lot of speed camera signs. But surely in a UK registered car they mean nothing?

Up to this date I don't get that Italian "Tutor" system. Loads of internet tale, but no one could yet explain to me how it operates. Is it true that is mostly not on at all? Someone can shed light on how it works?

anonymous said: [redacted] True enough. Years ago there was always some gangster / mafia types weaving through the traffic in some blacked out merc or similar. Now you dont see this blatant disregard for the law.

I've just started to use my GTS as a daily. New job and commuting around 70 miles per day. Was debating whether to lease something simple to save the mileage (nearly 40k now), as other half needs the workhorse golf a few days each week. Was also concerned my pride and joy wouldn't feel 'special' anymore. I've decided to just ignore all that bo**ocks and enjoy it. Had a little nipper a year ago and have done less than 1,000 miles so mileage will even itself out and a nice start/end to the day jumping in it. There's a few decent roads on my route so glad I made the decision I made. Poor thing is absolutely covered in all sorts of rubbish though, but kind of like it in a strange way. Tempted to jump into a 991.1 or .2 GTS, but always struggled to justify it and less so now.

Digga said: lovely selection there! I'm dithering about 997 GT3s (still). Aside from falling out of the non bucket seats, was there a lot of tangible difference between .1 and .2 GT3? Don't dither Digga, pull the trigger! You only live once... Differences? For sure there isn't a massive step up in power from gen1 to gen2, some prefer the 3.6 and the slightly different noise it makes, but in my experience you do notice the extra torque low-down in the gen2 and it is slightly quicker overall I'd say. Both engines make a truly extraordinary noise at any rate. I think turn-in is improved over the gen1 - but that's without doing a back-to-back comparison with identical stock geometry - Cup2's probably help here. The gen2 just feels extremely well balanced and '4square' on the road (ie equally weighted all round - even if in reality it isn't). I didn't get that sensation in the gen1 which felt slightly lighter at the nose esp under power. Otherwise, probably not all that much to choose between them! Styling-wise I preferred the gen1 wheels, but the gen2 has a more RS style wing which i rather like. Seats definitely make the car, and I would say buckets are a must in a GT car given the forces generated.

Cheib said: GT4P said: Fl0pp3r said: Just sodding lovely. I know some people prefer the 997.1 and a lot of people prefer the 996 iterations but I just love the look of the 997.2 GT3. Cheers fellas, I know I am a lucky boy. Looking after her while she's in my care

Fl0pp3r said: Cheib said: GT4P said: Fl0pp3r said: Just sodding lovely. I know some people prefer the 997.1 and a lot of people prefer the 996 iterations but I just love the look of the 997.2 GT3. Cheers fellas, I know I am a lucky boy. Looking after her while she's in my care I've not noticed the flare on the front wheel arch until I saw that pic. Nice.

I bloody love this but.......ll, Previously owned a 997 Carrera S which I still miss for its daily usability

i The Carrera S

I bloody love this but.......ll, Previously owned a 997 Carrera S which I still miss for its daily usability

Fl0pp3r said: Digga said: lovely selection there! I'm dithering about 997 GT3s (still). Aside from falling out of the non bucket seats, was there a lot of tangible difference between .1 and .2 GT3? Don't dither Digga, pull the trigger! You only live once... Differences? For sure there isn't a massive step up in power from gen1 to gen2, some prefer the 3.6 and the slightly different noise it makes, but in my experience you do notice the extra torque low-down in the gen2 and it is slightly quicker overall I'd say. Both engines make a truly extraordinary noise at any rate. I think turn-in is improved over the gen1 - but that's without doing a back-to-back comparison with identical stock geometry - Cup2's probably help here. The gen2 just feels extremely well balanced and '4square' on the road (ie equally weighted all round - even if in reality it isn't). I didn't get that sensation in the gen1 which felt slightly lighter at the nose esp under power. Otherwise, probably not all that much to choose between them! Styling-wise I preferred the gen1 wheels, but the gen2 has a more RS style wing which i rather like. Seats definitely make the car, and I would say buckets are a must in a GT car given the forces generated. I had my OPC 991.2 maNual GTS demo for a day...very high spec car. PCCB's, Buckets, PTS etc. I didn't really gel with it at first but by the end of the day thought long and hard about changing my manual 997 GTS for it. Couldnt justify it to myself in the end..991.2 GTS rides better and is obviously quicker and is in a lot of ways a big step on (especially the interior) but just couldn't do the deal. I love my 997 GTS! If it was a daily though I might have done it...

Cheib said: I had my OPC 991.2 maNual GTS demo for a day...very high spec car. PCCB's, Buckets, PTS etc. I didn't really gel with it at first but by the end of the day thought long and hard about changing my manual 997 GTS for it. Couldnt justify it to myself in the end..991.2 GTS rides better and is obviously quicker and is in a lot of ways a big step on (especially the interior) but just couldn't do the deal. I love my 997 GTS! If it was a daily though I might have done it... Now THAT is love. Good man.

And just for you Cheib some special 997 GTS lurv...

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My 4GTS still chugging along after 6 years and 76,000 miles - a great jack of all trades and can't see it going any time soon.

Car Mad Dave said: My 4GTS still chugging along after 6 years and 76,000 miles - a great jack of all trades and can't see it going any time soon. Is that Wilf Lunn in the passenger seat?!

CS Garth said: Is that Wilf Lunn in the passenger seat?! Ha ha, I did wonder why he kept saying keep your "vision on" the next corner

Car Mad Dave said: CS Garth said: Is that Wilf Lunn in the passenger seat?! Ha ha, I did wonder why he kept saying keep your "vision on" the next corner Ah thats where I'm going wrong...

D997 heading south last week

Help needed! I cant decide which way to go on my 997 purchase. Do i go gen 1 and run the risk of the engine issues maybe or go straight to gen 2 and pay a bit a more and supposedly have better reliability!? Any thoughts on price vs mileage vs age on the following three - 997.2 S - https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... 997.1 C4S - https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... 997.1 C - https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... Thank you, Phil

philnotts said: Help needed! I cant decide which way to go on my 997 purchase. Do i go gen 1 and run the risk of the engine issues maybe or go straight to gen 2 and pay a bit a more and supposedly have better reliability!? Pay more now for a Gen 2 and you'll also get more back when you come to sell. The purchase price isn't a sunk cost so they'll probably work out the same overall (assuming you can afford the Gen 2 in the first place). You'll also get a quicker car, much better gearbox if you're going auto and no £10k rebuild in the back of your mind. I'm probably going to put my 997.2 C2S up for sale soon...

Or use the price differential between 997.1 and .2 to fund a preemptive engine rebore/liners at Hartech. Buy the .1 get the engine done for £7.5k plus VAT and then enjoy a lovely car with a brand new engine and solid resale. buy a manual with PSE exhaust under 50k miles, get the work done and watch the value climb..... discussion, not fact 997.1 + Hartech = current 997.2 prices ?????

The_Doc said: Or use the price differential between 997.1 and .2 to fund a preemptive engine rebore/liners at Hartech. Buy the .1 get the engine done for £7.5k plus VAT and then enjoy a lovely car with a brand new engine and solid resale. buy a manual with PSE exhaust under 50k miles, get the work done and watch the value climb..... discussion, not fact 997.1 + Hartech = current 997.2 prices ????? Why not just buy the gen 1 and pay for the Hartech warranty - then if the engine goes they fix it for free?

lowndes said: D997 heading south last week needed a red one for the modern day Italian (I know you were in France) Job.

Thank you for the replies. I am looking for a manual with PSE. Looking at Gen 1 prices for a 40-60k mileage C4S, i am looking between 30k - 39k! Gen 2 C and S are around 35k - 40k with similier millage so if anything i am not sure why the gen 1 prices are creeping up if they have the engine issue cloud over them!? Hartech warranty is around £80 per month and they will only cover the labour if it goes bang, so at a guess 3k ish saving. Thank you, Phil

anonymous said: [redacted] I dont see that here - reads to me as if they cover everything? http://www.hartech.org/maintenance-plan

ATM said: anonymous said: [redacted] I dont see that here - reads to me as if they cover everything? http://www.hartech.org/maintenance-plan I wish it did - " we just charge for the parts and do all the work free - including (if ever needed) most engine and gearbox rebuilds etc. Many jobs are labour only and are therefore entirely free. "

philnotts said: I wish it did - " we just charge for the parts and do all the work free - including (if ever needed) most engine and gearbox rebuilds etc. Many jobs are labour only and are therefore entirely free. " Poo So what about a Porsche warranty on something like a gen 1 C4S, what would that cost and how many years old can the car be?

Gotta love the widebodied C4 - only 2196 left on the road

Very jealous reading through this thread, it makes me feel a right moron for buying a 981.

Does anyone know if the X51 option means that the bore score risk is reduced/removed on a 997.1?

No difference.

Its just heads and cams and inlet manifold and exhaust manifold changes I think.

Magic919 said: No difference. in that - whatever causes the issue isn't modified in any way with the X51 upgrade? i.e. the offending parts are not replaced? I've got a long termer X51..........(56k miles) - I've been making it as perfect as possible, so I guess I may well do the Hartech thing then at some point.......

lordturpin said: Gotta love the widebodied C4 - only 2196 left on the road I prefer the wide body 2WD version.

That looks very nice ! I had to have a manual 997 wide bodied but unfortunately my budget could only stretch to £23kish

lordturpin said: That looks very nice ! I had to have a manual 997 wide bodied but unfortunately my budget could only stretch to £23kish Is the body wider on the 997 4wd? At some angles I believe I can see the rear arch looks different and is there an extra ridge running down the sill.

Ok i may of seen a car (997.1 S) that i am very interested in but its done 80k miles and priced at 26k. Apart from having a PPI check done on the car, should i be worried about the high miles? I would likely sell it after 2 years and it will be touching 100k miles by then. Also not to start WW3 but whats the thoughts between S vs C4S in the driving sense and not styling, for anyone who has driven them back to back? Thank you, Phil

I've just bought a 997.1S with 63k miles for £29k.....key for me is that it's had the Hartech liners work done, which I think wasn't cheap...... I'm picking it up tomorrow - can't wait. Been out of the 911 loop for a while - I sold my first one (a 996 C4 Cab) 5 years ago. Will post a picture when I collect it tomorrow....

Edited by ATM on Thursday 22 October 08:04

Filibuster said: I know where that is! Right next to where I live. I'm glad to also have a trusty Audi S4 for those kind of conditions! Also, what hit your windscreen?? It was a rock. I was slowing down as I was approaching the toll booths near Milan [ring road maybe?]. You can see them in my rear view mirror here. I had been hitting speeds of 140 but as I slowed down I was maybe doing 100. I saw the rock fly up from the wheels of a truck in front. You know when you duck well this time it was warranted. I called Porsche Assistance who politely told me they dont cover glass even though this is the highest possible European breakdown cover known to man. I explained there was a hole in the glass which surprised the lady and she asked me how fast I had been going which I declined to answer. Anyway my options were wait at the side of the road for days or drive home with a punctured screen. The drive home was the worst drive of my life. Around 1000 miles without being able to use the wipers as they were pulling the tape off and driving at around 60 max for fear that more air pressure may force the screen in on me. Every bump in the road had me sheeting myself. Edited to fix the pic link Edited by ATM on Thursday 22 October 08:14

RATATTAK said: I've read somewhere that the Sport Classic wheels were made in Italy and are really Fuchs copies. Can anyone confirm please ? Edited by RATATTAK on Tuesday 14th July 18:00 That is correct. Made in Italy for Porsche by an undisclosed OEM supplier; possibly OZ, but unknown which supplier. Certainly not Otto Fuchs in Germany. They are cast aluminium, rather than the traditional forged Fuchs process. Not sure it really makes much of a difference does it?

Jones the cat said: That is correct. Made in Italy for Porsche by an undisclosed OEM supplier; possibly OZ, but unknown which supplier. Certainly not Otto Fuchs in Germany. They are cast aluminium, rather than the traditional forged Fuchs process. Not sure it really makes much of a difference does it? They're probably a bit heavier than the Fuchs, I weighed mine at 11.3 kg front and 14.7 kg rear for my 997.2 Turbo, which is slightly more than the standard Turbo 997.2 wheels which weigh in at 10.5/12.2 respectively. ETA I can't tell the difference (but I'm not a driving God) Edited by RATATTAK on Tuesday 14th July 21:35

Lovely one listed https://www.hangar136.com/cars-for-sale/2009-porsc...

That is stunning!

good picture, also 50k does not sound so bad.

1/1 in the world turbo s convertible Cognac metallic CXX Hermes orange interior https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20774374 more info on it at https://www.facebook.com/groups/661006819324434/po...

Some nice 997s at the Southside Hustle in Wimbledon, London yesterday, it's a great meet normally with a lot of Porsche content. A lovely manual GTS gen 2 A nice yellow manual gen 1 with PCCBs and a 997 gen 1 GT3

Jones the cat said: 1/1 in the world turbo s convertible Cognac metallic CXX Hermes orange interior https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20774374 more info on it at https://www.facebook.com/groups/661006819324434/po... Surely one for unfortunate folk who are totally colour blind, shocking

Jones the cat said: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20774374 Interesting price

Spotted a lovely RS in Betwys-y-Coed yesterday. The 997 really is the perfect size. I spent the remainder of my 3 hour drive home daydreaming about how fantastic it would be on the Welsh B roads.

Lovely S listed https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20843167

Jones the cat said: Lovely S listed https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20843167 Again, interesting price !

RATATTAK said: Again, interesting price ! Seems good value considering how rare manual mint condition ones come up

Triple Six said: Spotted a lovely RS in Betwys-y-Coed yesterday. The 997 really is the perfect size. I spent the remainder of my 3 hour drive home daydreaming about how fantastic it would be on the Welsh B roads. Is it an RS or a look alike? The rear end looks like a narrow body.

Jones the cat said: RATATTAK said: Again, interesting price ! Seems good value considering how rare manual mint condition ones come up Wheels need a refurb?

marrow said: Jones the cat said: RATATTAK said: Again, interesting price ! Seems good value considering how rare manual mint condition ones come up Wheels need a refurb? Love that colour - but no sports seats either... Not sure if there's Sports Chrono or not? I've made mine into a screen that hooks into the canbus, so I'm now the opposite and want the SC clock

PRO5T said: Is it an RS or a look alike? The rear end looks like a narrow body. Good spot. A quick search reveals a GT3 with RS bits, advertised by Octane Collection in 2024.

RemarkLima said: Love that colour - but no sports seats either... Not sure if there's Sports Chrono or not? I've made mine into a screen that hooks into the canbus, so I'm now the opposite and want the SC clock I have seen your project with the SC clock. Impressive! Myself I prefer the clean look of the dashboard without the clock. On a manual car, the function is rather limited anyhow, isn't it?

Filibuster said: RemarkLima said: Love that colour - but no sports seats either... Not sure if there's Sports Chrono or not? I've made mine into a screen that hooks into the canbus, so I'm now the opposite and want the SC clock I have seen your project with the SC clock. Impressive! Myself I prefer the clean look of the dashboard without the clock. On a manual car, the function is rather limited anyhow, isn't it? Thank you The initial thinking was to get an accurate water temperature, not the dashboard weighted temperature... And have it "track" glanceable if the temps start to climb - so the bars start to turn red as they get hotter. But it's sort of grown arms and legs, so having a flashing RPM limit is handy, and I've sourced some Bluetooth TPMS sensors, so getting TPMS readings has been great (I did have a slow puncture which was a leaky valve and would have probably driven around and knackered the tyre / crashed into a hedge). On a .1 Boxster, you can add the oil pressure sensor, run the wire to the DME and you'll get oil pressure readings too which is pretty cool. The latest one, I've managed to hook it up to a Bluetooth ODB2 dongle and start to read some of the detailed diagnostics, lambda, injector trim, ignition advance, air flow, intake temperature... I'm enjoying it for the project itself, it's been an interesting process, and I weirdly really enjoyed designing a PCB - luckily not too complex, but great to learn the tools to do it. I guess it even showing the time is more useful than the stopwatch right?

Royal Steering Wheels have smashed it out of the park with Ocean Blue Alan Cantara for my Ocean Blue interior, well happy!

997 requiring a bit of work @ £14.5k. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202608074...

From reading the ad its a money pit.

Ad now gone. Didn’t sit too long.

Keep your eagle eyes out, it'll be listed for 25k in a month, opportunity for a quick fix and flip, assuming the engine is solid......

v8notbrave said: Surely one for unfortunate folk who are totally colour blind, shocking Really? I would totally choose that. Give me bright colours inside and out anyday over boring black.

Terry Winks said: Royal Steering Wheels have smashed it out of the park with Ocean Blue Alan Cantara for my Ocean Blue interior, well happy! They are excellent at what they do, I got mine done too, along with the gearknob and handbrake lever.

andrew-494ym said: Really? I would totally choose that. Give me bright colours inside and out anyday over boring black. I don't mind bright colours, please look again. 1970s bronze paint with dayglo orange interior? Only gok wan or a blind person could order that Each to their own

v8notbrave said: I don't mind bright colours, please look again. 1970s bronze paint with dayglo orange interior? Only gok wan or a blind person could order that Each to their own Its just different, thats probably why it appeals. It stands out among the blacks, greys, silvers etc. As long as the top of the dash and wheel are dark, I usually like any bright interior.

golfer19 said: Ad now gone. Didn t sit too long. It was mine. Good buy for the purchaser, hope they enjoy it!

AO52's now on after Continental SC7s

Akannajinja said: golfer19 said: Ad now gone. Didn t sit too long. It was mine. Good buy for the purchaser, hope they enjoy it! I didn't see the ad. What is the car needing? Hope you enjoyed your 997 ownership!

Filibuster said: Akannajinja said: golfer19 said: Ad now gone. Didn t sit too long. It was mine. Good buy for the purchaser, hope they enjoy it! I didn't see the ad. What is the car needing? Hope you enjoyed your 997 ownership! I loved it. A wonderful car, and I have a 986. It needed money spent, and ultimately I’d reached the end. Myself and previous owner had maintained with no expense spared. A sudden brake line leak and brake failure was the catalyst to sell for me, and it sold for a price that means the buyer can’t lose. Ironically engine a peach. Needed some suspension work, engine dropped to properly repair the brake pipe, plus some other odds and ends. Some returning rear arch and sill rust too after £12k repair several years ago will need attention soon, plus tyres, service etc. I’ll no doubt regret it, but at a stage in life when I’m time poor and couldn’t face the garage trips, trailering etc etc to sort it.

No affiliation -lovely manual one listed today. Good manual Gen 2's seem rare to find these days. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202608104...

Jones the cat said: No affiliation -lovely manual one listed today. Good manual Gen 2's seem rare to find these days. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202608104... Wow, is that what people are asking these days. Its a nice one no doubt, but no mention of major work done recently. They do seem to be going up steadily in value.

I need this, as I am in so deep on mine now! But it wants for nothing mechanically now.

For those on the other side of the pond 1 of 2 in Porsche Racing Green. https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-997-2-tur... Perfection right there.

These seem to have shot up in value https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20925283

Wow, supply and demand in action, proves there is too much money swilling around in certain echelons.....I'm sure it's epic but really??

Very little/no evidence for cars trading at these levels, simply dealers flying kites because it’s usually in their interest to do so. There are cars being listed for sale at stupid numbers, then marked as sold soon after, in a transparent attempt to inflate the market and induce FOMO in punters hoping they jump in at the “new” value. Often the same dealers doing it, and a well known Porsche independent is probably the worst of all (I’d LOVE to name and shame but realise it’s not allowed).

Jones the cat said: These seem to have shot up in value https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20925283 Of ALL the 911's ever made i think that is IMO, the ultimate, i would love to own one, not at that silly price though

Mark A S said: Of ALL the 911's ever made i think that is IMO, the ultimate, i would love to own one, not at that silly price though Between this and the 4.0 they are widely agreed as being the water cooled GOATs still to this day.

The manual holy grail 1 of 20. With Aerokit it could be 1 of 1 and all the more a unicorn. https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/997... Edited by Jones the cat on Tuesday 25th August 01:41

Jones the cat said: The manual holy grail 1 of 20. With Aerokit it could be 1 of 1 and all the more a unicorn. https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/997... Edited by Jones the cat on Tuesday 25th August 01:41 Nice looks good value compared to others you share! for the money you'd expect a well written ad, What's Carrara white? Who would run this for another 18k prior to servicing? Is it AI non checked slop?

Carrara white is the correct colour name, named after the Italian white marble. The "Carrera" name is the car, after the Spanish word for race. So the car and the colour are different things.

rare 997.2 Turbo manual, not a fan of all Red interiors though, also not that sort wheels, but not a bad price for such rare Turbo 997.2

£130K for an aerokitted in 997.2 Turbo in white is considered good value now ? Blimey. Back in 2014 I almost bought a 997.2 Turbo in a fetching shade of mid blue metallic with a similar red interior. Centrelocks, folding carbon buckets, PCCB, manual, 32,000 miles (non Aerokit) £65K ...

RemarkLima said: Carrara white is the correct colour name, named after the Italian white marble. The "Carrera" name is the car, after the Spanish word for race. So the car and the colour are different things. yup - my first thought when looking at the description was "they got the name right", that feels at best a 50% chance most of the time

Slippydiff said: £130K for an aerokitted in 997.2 Turbo in white is considered good value now ? Blimey. Back in 2014 I almost bought a 997.2 Turbo in a fetching shade of mid blue metallic with a similar red interior. Centrelocks, folding carbon buckets, PCCB, manual, 32,000 miles (non Aerokit) £65K ... yep, it went fast, by us saw them for under 100k euro sometimes, but then within 2 or 3 years they almost exploded in price, seems more got to know about those 500hp manual and rare... now they cost over 150k if you can find another good example.

Jones the cat said: The manual holy grail 1 of 20. With Aerokit it could be 1 of 1 and all the more a unicorn. https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/997... I thought these are not necessarily desirable because they don't have the Mezger engine?

ATM said: I thought these are not necessarily desirable because they don't have the Mezger engine? I always considered the 997 1.5 Turbo as the super rare one to have, the Mezger engine but the 997.2 interior such as PCM and folding bucket seats.

PRO5T said: I always considered the 997 1.5 Turbo as the super rare one to have, the Mezger engine but the 997.2 interior such as PCM and folding bucket seats. We are into cars and engines and all things mechanical right, do we really care about the infotainment screen and seats more?

ATM said: PRO5T said: I always considered the 997 1.5 Turbo as the super rare one to have, the Mezger engine but the 997.2 interior such as PCM and folding bucket seats. We are into cars and engines and all things mechanical right, do we really care about the infotainment screen and seats more? Yes, the newer PCM is usable and the folding buckets seats infinitely more comfortable than the sofas and leave the rear seats accessible.

PRO5T said: I always considered the 997 1.5 Turbo as the super rare one to have, the Mezger engine but the 997.2 interior such as PCM and folding bucket seats. I don't think any 1.5 manuals exist in the UK.

Jones the cat said: I don't think any 1.5 manuals exist in the UK. They 100% exist as I almost bought one about 13 or 14 years ago. Took it for a test drive.

c4sman said: Jones the cat said: I don't think any 1.5 manuals exist in the UK. They 100% exist as I almost bought one about 13 or 14 years ago. Took it for a test drive. From Google AI: There were approximately 200 to 240 total examples of the Porsche 997 'Gen 1.5' Turbo produced for the UK right-hand drive (RHD) market, with around 50 of those equipped with the manual gearbox and the remainder featuring the Tiptronic S automatic transmission

Very rare then still. Odd that if the 1.5 is regarded as the better car over the Gen 2 that the prices are more comparable with each other. I don't think I have seen a 1.5 north of £100K.

Jones the cat said: I don't think any 1.5 manuals exist in the UK. c4sman said: They 100% exist as I almost bought one about 13 or 14 years ago. Took it for a test drive. RATATTAK said: From Google AI: There were approximately 200 to 240 total examples of the Porsche 997 'Gen 1.5' Turbo produced for the UK right-hand drive (RHD) market, with around 50 of those equipped with the manual gearbox and the remainder featuring the Tiptronic S automatic transmission Jones the cat said: Very rare then still. Shades of General Melchett to George : "That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through" ....

There was a nice GT silver one available last year, had a brown leather interior with the folding buckets at Paragon if I remember correctly. Was still sub £100k back then, would have been a good buy.

PRO5T said: ATM said: PRO5T said: I always considered the 997 1.5 Turbo as the super rare one to have, the Mezger engine but the 997.2 interior such as PCM and folding bucket seats. We are into cars and engines and all things mechanical right, do we really care about the infotainment screen and seats more? Yes, the newer PCM is usable and the folding buckets seats infinitely more comfortable than the sofas and leave the rear seats accessible. 997.1 PCM is Fisher Price level, electronic excrement. that said, plenty of inexpensive Carplay compatible upgrades.

I'm quite sure my pal's 997 '1.5' turbo is manual

The do exist: https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/showroom/porsch... According to the ad, there where around 50 manual 1.5 produced for the UK. This one was for sale for £55k …

Filibuster said: The do exist: https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/showroom/porsch... According to the ad, there where around 50 manual 1.5 produced for the UK. This one was for sale for £55k Apparently 50 isn't rare. Seems rare to me but apparently they are ten a penny to some people (going by previous comments).

https://www.instagram.com/p/Dcl8cs8KWCh/?igsi=cGN0... 996.2 C2 £60k from the Hartleys! 997.1 C2 £60k

Wow a .1! Most would rather have a full Hartech rebuild or get a .2 What maintenance is needed after 20 years? and how has it been stored and regularly started as all the bore(dom) score folk will be out en-masse Looks nice but must be for a collector who won't use it

Jones the cat said: Apparently 50 isn't rare. Seems rare to me but apparently they are ten a penny to some people (going by previous comments). You said they didn't exist. Others have said and proven that they do. "Rare" and "don't exist" are two different things altogether. No one said they're ten a penny, those are your words, used to try and deflect attention from your original, inaccurate statement. If you'd admitted you were wrong in what you stated originally, I suspect the other contributors who corrected you, would most likely have been more sanguine, but when you choose to double-down and resort to "Well, they're rare then" rather than actually owning your mistake, I wouldn't get too sniffy when you get fact checked and corrected by others better informed than yourself.

I'm new to the brand, is this level of pedantry routine? Jones, pls keep sharing your smorgasbord of interesting (and some slightly ropey) cars

No, it’s usually more extreme.

PRO5T said: https://www.instagram.com/p/Dcl8cs8KWCh/?igsi=cGN0... 996.2 C2 £60k from the Hartleys! 997.1 C2 £60k A unicorn mileage wise. Unrepeatable. Full details and pics at https://www.tomhartley.com/used-car-details/used-p...

Magic919 said: No, it s usually more extreme.

Sent by a friend Spotted this specimen in the wild It is dark green so I don't know if it is that well known car or another similar

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202608305... For those at the poverty end of the market this looks very tidy, down to 21k on FB, £20k in 4 years so all work is done aside from the engine, being a 3.8 is it worth it... too risky for many as I think it's been up since July

v8notbrave said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202608305... For those at the poverty end of the market this looks very tidy, down to 21k on FB, £20k in 4 years so all work is done aside from the engine, being a 3.8 is it worth it... too risky for many as I think it's been up since July Not sure about that, but the vendor should hung, drawn and quartered for painting the calipers PCCB yellow

ATM said: Sent by a friend Spotted this specimen in the wild It is dark green so I don't know if it is that well known car or another similar That is the Snakebite. Stick a Slakker Performance 4.1 430hp 8200rpm motor in it, and it would be the perfect road going 997. Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 4th September 14:10

The dark oak green / olive green (not sure!) is an awesome colour! Slippydiff said: Stick a Slakker Performance 4.1 430hp 8200rpm motor in it, and it would be the perfect road going 997. Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 4th September 14:10 Looking at the Slakker site, it's a Hartech 4.1 right? With the 8k springs maybe? Or is the Hartech 4.1 with heads, springs, and cams?

Slippydiff said: Not sure about that, but the vendor should hung, drawn and quartered for painting the calipers PCCB yellow Thread diversion but categorically the best pub name ever by Tower of London, the "hung, drawn & quartered"

RemarkLima said: Looking at the Slakker site, it's a Hartech 4.1 right? With the 8k springs maybe? Or is the Hartech 4.1 with heads, springs, and cams? Spot on.

A modded 997 to be like a Sports Classic https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202609085...

nice, looks good als ala 997.2 price also good, although enough miles. wonder how they did that roof? or is that an optical elusion? what I not like are those back seats, looks bulky/sofa/pillow ish fat? I guess its a bit the angle because of the bolstered sides? but otherwise nice.

Jones the cat said: A modded 997 to be like a Sports Classic https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202609085... Oof! I rather like that…

Design911 will sell you the kit.

That's a lot of brown leather! It must have cost a fortune to do!! It's a 997.1, as has the PCM 2.1, the "volcano grey" centre console, and climate panel - so has had the .2 bumpers and lights fitted as well.

Awful, gonna be a tough sell at 70 bags for a .1 Maybe lovely looking and big spend on engine etc but it's so impure and being a fake .2 it doesn't work, cars must be honest and have provenance

RemarkLima said: That's a lot of brown leather! It must have cost a fortune to do!! It's a 997.1, as has the PCM 2.1, the "volcano grey" centre console, and climate panel - so has had the .2 bumpers and lights fitted as well. Looks like a narrowbody though, rather than a C4S/Turbo/GT3 RS widebody.

Completely different 997 angle: Did another early morning run covering Furka, Grimsel and Susten mountain passes in my 7.2 GT3. This truly peak Porsche. The car delivers such connection and feel, that it acts like a direct extension of your body. The high amount of feedback allows you to safely make spirited progress within the bounds of a public road. When waiting at one of the several traffic lights at construction areas and smelling proper heat in the semis is highly satisfying, too

I love the 997 Sport Classic and would swap my 997.2 Turbo for one in an instant. However, I'm afraid I wouldn't be seen dead in that look-alike. And I certainly wouldn't pay that kind of money for it.

Here's a real 997 Sport Classic for comparison:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202609095... Hartech rebuild Yellow What’s not too like. Nearly hit the button until I saw tiptronic.

RATATTAK said: Here's a real 997 Sport Classic for comparison: Gorgeous

Here's my Turbo with Sport Classic wheels:

golfer19 said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202609095... Hartech rebuild Yellow What s not too like. Nearly hit the button until I saw tiptronic. Same, was about to go that's worth a swap and get even more abuse about a mid life crisis... Then saw the tip. I know the tip is still good, but I need a manual in my life for the limited miles I do.

RATATTAK said: Here's my Turbo with Sport Classic wheels: That looks better than the Sport Classic to me. They are well over rated in my opinion.

John D. said: That looks better than the Sport Classic to me. They are well over rated in my opinion. Don’t know about overrated maybe overpriced but still a lovely car and a 997.2 personally I think they should priced on par or just above a 997.2 GT3

GT4P said: John D. said: That looks better than the Sport Classic to me. They are well over rated in my opinion. Don t know about overrated maybe overpriced but still a lovely car and a 997.2 personally I think they should priced on par or just above a 997.2 GT3 I remember going to Romans back in the day to look at something else and seeing a high mileage Sport Classic. It had done a lot of miles (say 60-70k) in a very short space of time and they hadn't suddenly jumped in price by then-they were still depreciating. The leather was awful in it, the miles had really taken their toll on it and all the extra leather on things like the vents etc was shrinking and lifting. Within months they had all disappeared and the dealers pumped the market-they've never come back down.

Dr S said: Completely different 997 angle: Did another early morning run covering Furka, Grimsel and Susten mountain passes in my 7.2 GT3. This truly peak Porsche. The car delivers such connection and feel, that it acts like a direct extension of your body. The high amount of feedback allows you to safely make spirited progress within the bounds of a public road. When waiting at one of the several traffic lights at construction areas and smelling proper heat in the semis is highly satisfying, too I did this early morning and late evening from Andermatt in early August in my 7.2 GT3. Was utterly wonderful. Just fantastic. Almost no one on the roads. Had some fun with a local who was very quick.

GT4P said: John D. said: That looks better than the Sport Classic to me. They are well over rated in my opinion. Don t know about overrated maybe overpriced but still a lovely car and a 997.2 personally I think they should priced on par or just above a 997.2 GT3 That's what I mean. It's a huge premium for something aesthetically I don't particularly like. I just really don't get the hype.

SFO said: Dr S said: Completely different 997 angle: Did another early morning run covering Furka, Grimsel and Susten mountain passes in my 7.2 GT3. This truly peak Porsche. The car delivers such connection and feel, that it acts like a direct extension of your body. The high amount of feedback allows you to safely make spirited progress within the bounds of a public road. When waiting at one of the several traffic lights at construction areas and smelling proper heat in the semis is highly satisfying, too I did this early morning and late evening from Andermatt in early August in my 7.2 GT3. Was utterly wonderful. Just fantastic. Almost no one on the roads. Had some fun with a local who was very quick. I'll be heading over to those passes in three weeks with a couple of Porsche mates (997 GTS, 997.2 C4S, 991 Carrera T), really hoping the weather holds out as the roads and views look incredible there. Basing ourselves in Andermatt - do you recommend an early start each day even though it would be in Oct?

kith said: SFO said: Dr S said: Completely different 997 angle: Did another early morning run covering Furka, Grimsel and Susten mountain passes in my 7.2 GT3. This truly peak Porsche. The car delivers such connection and feel, that it acts like a direct extension of your body. The high amount of feedback allows you to safely make spirited progress within the bounds of a public road. When waiting at one of the several traffic lights at construction areas and smelling proper heat in the semis is highly satisfying, too I did this early morning and late evening from Andermatt in early August in my 7.2 GT3. Was utterly wonderful. Just fantastic. Almost no one on the roads. Had some fun with a local who was very quick. I'll be heading over to those passes in three weeks with a couple of Porsche mates (997 GTS, 997.2 C4S, 991 Carrera T), really hoping the weather holds out as the roads and views look incredible there. Basing ourselves in Andermatt - do you recommend an early start each day even though it would be in Oct? If you want largely free roads then you need to get up early. I'm usually on top of the first pass (either Furka or Susten) shortly before 0600. At these times there are no bicycles and mobile homes hindering progress. That the sun rises later in October is a downside. Beware that even in late September, the passes can be closed due to snowfall. If the weather holds, you are in for a treat, both in terms of driving and scenery

Dr S said: If you want largely free roads then you need to get up early. I'm usually on top of the first pass (either Furka or Susten) shortly before 0600. At these times there are no bicycles and mobile homes hindering progress. That the sun rises later in October is a downside. Beware that even in late September, the passes can be closed due to snowfall. If the weather holds, you are in for a treat, both in terms of driving and scenery Early is better as there is commuting traffic. I went anti clockwise in the morning - left Andermatt at about 745 - and clockwise in the evening.

seawise said: Collecting my ultimate 997 to join my 997 GT3 3.8 Seen the values now? http://pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20887132

Jones the cat said: Seen the values now? That’s the not the ‘value’, it’s the ‘price’ - as Oscar Wilde succinctly differentiated.

Koln-RS said: Jones the cat said: Seen the values now? That s the not the value , it s the price - as Oscar Wilde succinctly differentiated. Quite, it’s what is paid not asked that sets the market.

The GOAT https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20908385

Jones the cat said: The GOAT https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20908385

Another one of those lovely 997.2 specials that once you could pick up for £80/90k that has gone lottery win pricing

GT4P said: Another one of those lovely 997.2 specials that once you could pick up for £80/90k that has gone lottery win pricing Was it not a 997 Gen 1 only car?

Magic919 said: Was it not a 997 Gen 1 only car? You might be right, but I am sure I remember Gen2 Gt2 or was that just the RS , all such a long time ago, but I do remember sitting in one for sale at about £80k and remembering how heavy the clutch was

I remember them as running into the period after the 997.2 Carrera was released but still being Gen 1 based. The RS was 997.2 only.

IIRC the 997 GT2 was a gen 1.5 car, gen 2 front sidelights, gen 1 rear lights, gen 2 interior. GT2 RS was a full gen 2 car. I THINK - happy to be corrected if someone knows better.

VerySideways said: IIRC the 997 GT2 was a gen 1.5 car, gen 2 front sidelights, gen 1 rear lights, gen 2 interior. GT2 RS was a full gen 2 car. I THINK - happy to be corrected if someone knows better. 997 GT2 has the gen1 infotainment screen etc - so whilst the front PU is gen2 design, rest of the car is a gen1 997. GT2 RS was the 2nd to last 997.2 model, launched with the 4.0 RS and prior the Speedster.

VerySideways said: IIRC the 997 GT2 was a gen 1.5 car, gen 2 front sidelights, gen 1 rear lights, gen 2 interior. GT2 RS was a full gen 2 car. I THINK - happy to be corrected if someone knows better. Hi there VS, hope you are good ? The 2009 models are generally known as the 1.5 version and got the PCM 3 plus some slight differences in the internal electronics, can't remember exactly what but were friendlier when retrofitting and coding in the 997.2 LED tail lights.

TB993tt said: VerySideways said: IIRC the 997 GT2 was a gen 1.5 car, gen 2 front sidelights, gen 1 rear lights, gen 2 interior. GT2 RS was a full gen 2 car. I THINK - happy to be corrected if someone knows better. Hi there VS, hope you are good ? The 2009 models are generally known as the 1.5 version and got the PCM 3 plus some slight differences in the internal electronics, can't remember exactly what but were friendlier when retrofitting and coding in the 997.2 LED tail lights. Hi TB, Long time!! Very well thanks, been running driving tours for 17 years now and back in a 911 again, a 997.2 Carrera. How's everything in your world?

Subliminal msg from my weather app, feeling the pressure for a fun drive

FriedMarsBar said: The GT2 is now more expensive than the other GOAT https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20782162

Slippydiff said: That is the Snakebite. Stick a Slakker Performance 4.1 430hp 8200rpm motor in it, and it would be the perfect road going 997. Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 4th September 14:10 I really like this!! Just thought I would say lol.

Single owner example. Can't be many out there never having exchanged hands. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21148481

https://www.romansofstalbans.co.uk/used-porsche-91... Bargain!

https://www.lakesideclassics.uk.com/cars/porsche/9... Another great value 997, not overpriced at all.

I see your £100K and raise you https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21019181

I still don't get the GTS pricing? It's a 997.2 C2S with the X51 and centre lock wheels right? But it has always commanded a massive increase over the Carrera? Am I missing something?

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RemarkLima said: I still don't get the GTS pricing? It's a 997.2 C2S with the X51 and centre lock wheels right? But it has always commanded a massive increase over the Carrera? Am I missing something? Plus alcantara interior, sports exhaust, some chassis mods, wide body RWD but yes, its essentially a C2S+. Things aren't rational in the 911 world though, look at how much of a premium Super Sport G-body Carrera's command over the std version.

Alcantara interior too - but I agree - the 997 GTS is not worth the prices being asked/expected and most have a plastic dashboard!! The X51 power kit is the only valuable feature - but that's probably only exploitable at high revs and high speeds. RemarkLima said: I still don't get the GTS pricing? It's a 997.2 C2S with the X51 and centre lock wheels right? But it has always commanded a massive increase over the Carrera? Am I missing something?

GTS prices make no sense to me either, PDK or manual, I suppose at least the manual has the rarity value and better drive but anything over £70,000 seems expensive to me for ultimately what it is.

kith said: RemarkLima said: I still don't get the GTS pricing? It's a 997.2 C2S with the X51 and centre lock wheels right? But it has always commanded a massive increase over the Carrera? Am I missing something? Plus alcantara interior, sports exhaust, some chassis mods, wide body RWD but yes, its essentially a C2S+. Things aren't rational in the 911 world though, look at how much of a premium Super Sport G-body Carrera's command over the std version. I guess the wide body but RWD from factory is the most unique thing, so there is that?

Rarity is often a big driver in the Porsche world, I think that s driving GTS manual values. Not sure it s a £110k car, (the market will decide that), but having owned one for 13 years I do think they are greater than the sum of their parts. Heard lots about it being just an S with centrelocks (if optioned) but it s the 911 that stopped me swapping 911s every 18 months over (10 years ish), and it s the last car I d sell if I had to (it shares space with a 991.2 GT3 CS)

Yes check out the 9werks 997 C4S v 4GTS video which said the same thing, the GTS does drive and feels like a more special car. I would personally buy a standard C2S though if it was my money.