The comeback of the 996

Entertaining read for us 996 owners..... The comeback of the 996​ Once criticised for its design and water-cooled engine, the 996 is now a cult classic​ “You’d have to be perverse to declare the old car was better…” Not our words, clearly, but those of evo in its January 1999 Car of the Year issue. The “old car”? That will be the 993 and so, by implication, there must be a new car. There was, the 996 Carrera 2, which wiped the board with the competition… and that included the Ferrari F355. And it wasn’t just our colleagues at evo who awarded the 996 a gong and the full five stars. In the days when car mags and journos were the qualified influencers, there were few who didn’t side with that opinion. Sure, there was a lament for the demise of the air-cooled generation and that lost air-cooled character, but you really would have to be perverse to declare the old car was better. THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME (…ISH) It was, if you like, Porsche’s difficult second album. From the 911’s inception in 1964 right through to 1995, Stuttgart had effectively re-mixed the master tapes in a series of evolutions, culminating with the 993. In 1998, the 996 was the revolution that had to happen and the purists didn’t like it. They didn’t like the fact that it was water-cooled, they didn’t like the fact that it shared its modular construction and numerous parts/panels with the Boxster and, over time, they really didn’t like the fact that the ‘new’ 911 (like the Boxster) appealed to a far broader customer base. With familiarity grows contempt. I was one of those 911 virgins. With no air-cooled 911 prejudice/experience (although I soon made up for that, and I grew to love the old ‘uns too), the 996 was the first 911 I ever drove in 2000. I was blown away. Dynamically, it was like nothing I had ever experienced before and I made the absolute most of my week behind the wheel, including a there-and-back-in-24-hours Nürburgring trip. This was a car that I absolutely knew I would have to own in the future. Indeed, it would be fair to say that it had quite a profound effect on me. It was a long time coming, but – thanks to a small windfall – I finally bought a basic C2 in 2015 and ran it for five happy years. I’m not the only motoring scribbler to have made such a 996 purchase; it ticks all our purist boxes. I made a modest profit when I came to sell it too. Back in 2000, if you had told me that the 996 was going to fall so drastically, from Car of the Year-winning grace to the point today where £30,000+ can separate a 996 Carrera 2 and 993 Carrera 2, I would have considered you one cylinder short of the full flat-six. Oh, and here’s another thing. Back in 2002, when I wanted but couldn’t afford a 996 Carrera 2, I bought a 911 Carrera 3.2 as my first Porsche instead. Try writing that sentence today, in a world where the air-cooled boat has sailed for many of us. But, having had experience of both, I know which I would rather have and that’s not just making virtue out of fiscal necessity. The 996 was the first mass-produced 911… or should that be the first 911 that was designed to be mass-produced, thanks to the arrival of Porsche saviour Wendelin Wiedeking. That wider customer base saw a car that no longer had the associated baggage of quirkiness, old-school machismo and a required deep understanding of the laws of rear engine physics. They saw a sports car that came in all sorts of guises, that was actually really very driveable and practical every day. Tiptronics, Cabrios, Targas, Carrera 4s, some really quite strange colour combos and ubiquity all conspired against the 996. And then there were the ‘issues’. A handful of exploding engines did for the 996’s reputation and in came a whole micro industry of fixes and snake oil. It’s a subject for another story, but all the engines that were ever going to blow up have now probably done so and the ‘fixes’ that are worthwhile are easily retrofitted during routine maintenance. Also, in all my years of writing about Porsches, I’ve been privy to numerous IMS bearing swaps and I’ve never seen an original outgoing bearing that was anything less than perfect. I know of one specialist who has a ‘special’ draw in his tool chest for all the perfect standard bearings that he’s removed and replaced that he never tires of displaying. THE STATE OF THE ART All of this has kept the 996 in the doldrums, but that is starting to change. It’s a 911, after all, and it will have its day. That’s why we’re gathered here in sunny Norfolk with a trio of 996s to big up what is now the de facto ‘your first 911’. In many respects, this seems quite mad, but rejoice in the fact that this first rung on the 911 ladder is also one of the very best. Really? Yes, really… In order to track the 996’s trajectory, we’re being selective in choosing a base 1998 Carrera 2 and 2001 Carrera 4 in 3.4-litre Gen 1 guises, plus making the transition to a 2003 Gen 2 3.6-litre Carrera 2. Sure, the 996 Carrera 4S is, in market and value terms, more desirable, but there is a ‘less is more’ mantra that is crucial here too. Indeed, think of the Carrera 2 as a junior GT3. Again, really? Here’s a killer 996 C2 fact: at 1,320kg versus 1,350kg, it’s actually lighter than the 996 GT3. That wasn’t lost on Autocar back in the day, as the test team pondered why they couldn’t get a 996 GT3 to 60mph quicker than a 996 C2 and the C2 was still ahead even when going further to 100mph. The stats? They’re 0-60mph in 4.6s versus 4.8s and 0-100mph in 10.5s versus 10.9s. That’s the difference that 30kg makes despite a power deficit of 60bhp from the C2’s 300bhp M96 flat-six compared to the GT3’s mighty 360bhp Mezger unit. To put all this into perspective, the 996 Carrera 2 is the lightest water-cooled 911, full stop. Oh, and it’s lighter than a 993 Carrera 2, with more power and a more advanced chassis, longer wheelbase and wider track. It’s no wonder that, on the same stretch of road and with drivers of equal talent, the 996 soon pulls ahead. Let’s fully consider the 996’s spec. With a blank canvas and the benefit of modern monocoque construction and computer modelling, Porsche was able to build a level of torsional rigidity into the new bodyshell than eclipsed the 993 by 30 per cent. In a sign of the times in construction, 21 per cent of that was achieved by being able to bond the front and rear windows. That rigidity allows the suspension and steering to really work its magic. MacPherson struts might sound ordinary but, as a form of integrating the damper and spring, they are hard to beat. However, the real genius of the 996’s suspension lies within the 993-influenced LFA multi-link rear set-up, which keeps the rear wheels perfectly upright at all times for maximum traction – something that the 911 has in abundance, of course. Upfront is rather more conventional, with the MacPherson struts sandwiched between the lower aluminium suspension ‘coffin’ arms and the suspension top-mounts, an anti-roll bar and, for the first time in a 911, a steering rack that’s ahead of the front wheel centreline. A completely new Getrag-designed, six-speed transaxle features an engineered, mechanical short-shift action too. To be absolutely accurate, the all-new M96 3.4-litre in launch spec produces 296bhp and a willing 258lbs/ft of torque at 4,600rpm. What it gave away in terms of noise and character, compared to the outgoing and effectively outlawed air-cooled 3.6 of the 993, it makes up for in power and sophistication. Taken at absolute face value, and leaving aside those ‘issues’, it is an absolute masterpiece of power and elasticity that’s only bettered by the Gen 2 3.6 – which we will come to in a moment. FOUR ON THE FLOOR While we’re not going to major on the 996 Carrera 4, we do have one to play with and it does play an important part in the modern 911 era. It’s also pertinent to the development of the 996 GT3, donating its stiffer/heavier bodyshell to cope with the extra stresses generated by the front diff transferring power – up to 40 per cent – to the front wheels and it’s structurally different to the Carrera 2 bodyshell from the windscreen forward. The Carrera 4 introduced something new to the all-wheel-drive party in the form of Porsche Stability Management (PSM). Made possible by the adoption of an electronic drive-by-wire throttle (E-Gas), this Bosch-designed system combines onboard longitudinal controls – the anti-lock brakes and Automatic Brake Differential (ABD) – with a lateral control that cuts in only briefly, but equally decisively, to support the hard-pedalling driver in keeping the car stable in a corner. Wheel speed sensors detect the difference in speed from left to right, while a steering angle sensor, lateral acceleration sensor and yaw sensor detect drift angles. The aim is to provide lateral stability, controlling a slide by applying brake force to individual wheels. Oversteer is countered by the application of brake force to the outside front wheel, while understeer is quashed by braking the inside rear. Sophisticated stuff, which would soon be a standard feature on all 996s moving forward. Its genius, though, was its non-intrusive nature and super-subtle intervention acting to enhance the driving experience rather than actively blunt it. Even Walter Röhrl was a big fan, claiming that he would take C2 over C4… but then he did help to develop it. Nevertheless, the 996 Carrera 4 is an absolute weapon over treacherous ground, but we’re not expecting any decisive advantage in today’s dry conditions. IN THE PINK And the Gen 2 Carrera 3.6? Again, we’ll come to that. But before we go for a drive, we should step back and just take a good look at the 996’s Pinky Lai-styled aesthetics, which must have been one tough gig, bringing the 911’s timeless silhouette into a very different world. A success? Well, perception of the 996’s styling and looks has ebbed and flowed over the years, but now there is a certain purity about the early Gen 1 cars, with their shark-like front ends, and the nonsense about ‘fried egg’ headlight/indicators has abated too. They look great. Compared to the modern, bloated and fussily styled 992, the 996 is the model of restraint. But it’s not all good. There is no denying that the 996’s interior doesn’t feature that same restraint, with its over-stylised architecture and approximate build quality. Ergonomically, though, in terms of placement of your all-important driving tools, the 996 is a definitive 911 gamechanger. Likewise in terms of their precision and linearity. It’s not a recognised thing, largely because I’ve only just invented it, but there is a power-to-size-to-road equation (some smart Alec could probably devise a formula) which the 911 busted through with the 991 and has truly demolished with the 992. That is to say, the current 911 is too big and too powerful for our roads, particularly our Britpop B roads. If your 911 doesn’t work here, then it’s not fit for purpose. The 996 has the perfect balance of what we’ll call PSR. It just works, blending, flowing and dancing with the undulations and ragged topography. It’s a ride/handling balance that has seemingly been lost to 20”+ wheels and iron-fist damping. You can drive a 996 up to its limit and then just hold it there in the palm of your hand, revelling in the feedback from the steering and animated chassis. Back in the 996’s day, the only contemporary that could keep up with a well-driven 996 C2/C4 was a Subaru Impreza. A 993 C2 wouldn’t have seen which way it went, then or now. Wringing out the endlessly, elastically flexible, 3.4-litre, flat-six is an absolute joy. The Carrera 4 isn’t far behind in terms of driving enjoyment either. On this dry day, it offers no real advantage but, if you had never driven a Carrera 2, then its slightly less chatty steering and default towards understeer would hardly register. Its advantage as a junior everyday supercar is less of an advantage these days, when few 996s are used in such a way. For maximum entertainment and driving involvement, the Carrera 2 has it beaten. SUNNY SIDE UP Saving the best to last, though, here comes 2002’s Gen 2 996 Carrera 2 3.6. Fundamentally, it’s the same car with some styling tweaks, most notably the headlights, plus a better-quality interior, which is welcome. But never has an extra 200cc and 15bhp made itself felt so energetically. The full fat figure is 315bhp but, as ever in real road situations, it’s the torque that talks: a loaded 273lbs/ft at 4,250rpm versus the 3.4’s 251lbs/ft at 4,600rpm. Put simply, there is power absolutely everywhere, the engine is constantly poised for any given situation and it’s ready to work the brilliance of the chassis. It’s a little heavier at 1,345kg, but the extra power and torque makes light work of such a small gain, even if you do feel a slight effect in its responses. It’s still lighter than a 996 GT3, though! So, the Gen 2 996 Carrera 2 wins, then? The best? If only it were that simple. Yes, objectively, it is the better car and that engine is something else, but there is also something quite beguiling about that lightweight Gen 1 and the way the 3.4-litre unit is just that bit more hungry for revs and makes you work a little bit harder. Maybe it’s because you never forget your first time, it’s 25 years since mine – a silver anniversary, in fact – and today’s silver 996 Carrera 2 is a time-travelling dead ringer for that Nürburgring day-tripping machine. Back in 2000, it was peak 911. In today’s landscape, it occupies the bottom rung of the 911 ladder. Go figure, but celebrate too. Truly, we’ve never had it so good. The comeback of the 996 | Porsche Club News | Porsche Club Great Britain The comeback of the 996, Once criticised for its design and water-cooled engine, the 996 is now a cult classic published 22/05/2025 by Porsche Club GB www.porscheclubgb.com

the legacy of the 911 is always strong

Good article. I’d argue it never went away but was never appreciated for what it was or the huge improvement that came about. 993’s are lovely but have their flaws. 964’s were once much derided owing to questionable handling. Nice that the 996 is appreciated for what it always has been. I think there’s more simply a realisation that new metal is very heavy and much larger than what came before it. And nostalgic views back to better times may also play a part.

Perhaps i'll keep mine then..........................

Good read -thank for posting I loved my 996 C2 3.6 much more than the 3.4 The 3.6 from 4000rpm is amazing

My 3.4 is amazing from 4000rpm too.

Im glad he thinks the .2 is the better car and that the .1 is a more romanticised purchase, lots of .1 owners seem to dismiss the .2 as some sort of fake, i've found some to be quite odd in the way they view a .2 v's their .1. Either way you are winning in a 996 though (unless it blows up )

you get a lot of defensive people with hidden agendas (me included)

It’s a pity they didn’t feature the turbo as well as that’s a great addition to the group

Back in 2018 when i first drove mine .1 i just could not believe how good it was for the money it was mint no rust and went like a rocket ship, i figured if i get 2-3 years out of it before it explodes it's well worth a punt, i still have it in the garage today and it's still a total joy to own i no longer fear it destroying itself either now we know so much more about these engines. They may still be cheapish but the capability is outstanding value even parts are easy available ebay it's win win , pretty easy to work on as well it's the petrol heads 911.

I am a second time 996 C2 .2 owner and love my latest purchase to bits.....which should be a keeper based on condition and mileage. However, it would be a dull old world if we all liked the same thing, and there would be no banter on great forums such as this......

Thanks for posting, good read. The only thing missing is the omnipotence of the convertible variant

Love that write up! .1 or .2, I think we all have something amazing in our respective garages!

Is that an old article revamped? Or am I suffering a weird version of deja vu? I could write a side of A4 easily but it's enough to say I'm a fan, I've liked them more as they've got older and now feel smaller than they did back in the late 90's when my Astra GTE felt like it was plenty big enough and the 996 was bigger and heavier. I can understand why newer cars might appeal to some people, convenience and modern interiors, but I think you'd find it hard to say the 996 is a bad car - bore score aside.

Iv'e seen part of that write up in porsche world 911 magazine, penned by Steve Bennett you must of read it there.

The 996 seems to be developing a bit of a cult status, more than any other 911, it's a bit weird really because I don't remember them being big poster cars, they didn't seem to capture the glamour of the air-cooled cars, especially the 80's power and status cars like the 930 and 964s. They came out at a time when the world was falling apart and Porsche weren't doing so well, but they were great cars and they've endured, and now they seem to be emerging as really solid sports cars with performance and ability. The generally accepted thing is that the 997 is a better car and in many ways it is, but the 996 seems to be emerging to take the limelight. It's purely down to feeling, I was in my 997 earlier but I wish I was in my 996 - although actually saying that I'd rather be in my 930 than both but you can't compare a flagship 1980's Turbo poster car to a base 996 C4S Carrera, the 930 is bound to feel more special. I've never driven a 996 Turbo S but I suspect that feels very special too.

All very lovely, but whoever wrote it is making up some rubbish somewhere along the line with the C2 vs GT3 vs C2.2 all being very contradictory.

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I think it's multiple articles stitched together, I thought I'd read most of that before but in different articles, so it looks like they took half a dozen paragraphs from half a dozen old write-ups and created one new one.

There is something in the air this year regarding the 996. I've had a few random 'nice car' comments already. It' might a few more years though for values to seriously go up though. In the next modern classic boom (whenever that may be) I'm confident that the 996 will stand out.

In the last year I've been talking to Porsche people in the USA, the Middle East, the Far East and Europe, and the buzz car at the moment is the 996. It's not just me either, the MLR guys have strong US connections and so far they've had two cars flown in from the US to replicate my 996 build, people want them. There is something quite cool now about a full custom 996 build, its underground thing at the moment and it just needs some good PR to really get it going.

Like I said earlier…… it takes all kinds to make the world. Just in Magdeburg in Germany and and amazing, for want of a better word, cream coloured convertible with a chocolate roof has just driven by….. couldn’t get a pic. However there is a combo that is likely to be marmite

I prefer the looks of the 996.2 to the 1 and there is not much difference between the two. Anyone who thinks the .1 is some sort of hardcore sports car in comparison to the 2 is quite daft... . 996 is emerging as a better driver's car than the 997 which I agree with - lighter, sharper and overall more engaging. 997 if you like to pose of course..

I really enjoyed my 996.1 C2 which I owned about 10 years ago. Kicked off my Porsche ownership journey. 996 are great cars.

I adored my 996.2 Targa - despite the squeaks and rattles.

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I think they all do that eventually

what’s not to love!!

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That's a nice looking car. Every year those headlights seem to look a lot better than they did the year before, I've been on the fence with them and it would have been so much easier for Porsche to just do what they did with the 997, but they were way ahead of their time and in the right colour the car looks great - in part because of the headlights not despite them. I reckon the 996 should (and would) be worth double what they're fetching now, but the scaremongering about the M96 and the myth that only one shop can fix them, has really hurt sales. It's a better car in literally every way than anything that came before it, even though I prefer driving my 930 I do readily admit that the 996 is a far superior car in every way except nostalgia and the 930 being my poster car. Sadly we can't change the market, but buy a decent 996 and then get the know issues addressed and you'll have a brilliant car, that will keep up with anything else on the road, and it should last a lifetime. My only other gripe is that I wish people would actually realise the value in properly reconditioned/rebuilt ones, they're six figure cars, a car that has been properly entirely refurbished including full paint strip and a lifetime rust prevention, and proper engine rebuild, is as good as any new car, and I wish people could see what goes into them and how much value they offer. For now I think this is holding back the 996 becoming a platform for a lot of people to do spectacular things with them, because people don't think they're worth paying top money for them.

Having spent last weekend with eight other Porsches and covering nearly 600 miles on some of best roads in Britain, I whole hartely agree with the article. Well, I knew that before reading the article having had my 996.2 3.6 for over two years. A truly epic car, the only car you ever need. A car that can keep up with very well driven Uber powerful 992 on any back road. As for values, it's a double edged sword. I've seen it happen, friends who had 964 and 993. They become too valuable and they became too scared to drive them. You then get XR3i Escorts going for 40k plus, the world has gone mad. I owned one when I was in the forces back in the 80s. They were crap then and I can't see that they have got better with age. Just my personal opinion of course.

It's just romance and nostalgia that make cars like XR3i 's go for silly money , usually blokes that want to go back to the 80's when they think they were in their "prime" ...(them and the car) but the reality is quite disappointing , again for both especially after you've gone 5 miles down the road in some heap of crap that you've just spunked £50k on and it's struggling to keep up with a Kia Ceed (good car btw , my daughter has one in green)

As long as you drive stuff for what it is then you’re fine. I’ve got a 1936 motorcycle and I ride it as one, if I ride it expecting a 2025 bike then I’ll be disappointed. Been out all morning in my 930 and I had to push it a bit to keep up with newer cars but I was easily middle of the pack, but you just have to accept it’s easier to do the same in a newer car.

i think even though im looking to get into a 991 for what i paid for mine ill keep hold of it as maybe one day itll be worth more. id be happy to double my money to be fair

Despite many owners (or armchair 'experts' who cant afford them) best efforts to down play the 996, I think its more or less hit the bottom of its depreciation curve. The prices may flatten for q couple of years but they will start to go up again soon. Certainly not going to lose as much as the depreciation on many newr cars

I don’t think any clean n decent 996 will depreciate at all now, good history and decent maintenance schedule (evidenced of course) and I think the only costs are keeping them upto date so to speak

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Yep,there's loads of tat around which pulls the market down. I've seen some high priced cars, but if they are a well maintained and highly specced, they are worth a serious consideration.

I plan to put money into mine over the coming years. 2026 will be a deep undercarriage clean with an inspection for any rust etc. Already have the quote ready. Pre-health issues, I would've done this myself. After that will be a front 1/3 respray to deal with stone chips and swap out the exterior rubber. Last will be a big interior retrim and refresh. This will be spread over the next couple of years rather than in quick succession to keep a healthy budget for mechanical maintenance. I plan to keep the turbo long term. I've come across other 996's that have had the money put in to them to refresh the paintwork, interior and mechanical components which is a good sign.

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This nostalgia for stuff is interesting, I saw a 1.9 205 in car park last week and it looked so small, in that dark green they did at the run out stage? I spent a couple of decades in the motortrade and when you’re around it everyday it’s amazing watching the pace of development . For me the biggest change I saw in my time was in chassis dynamics. I remember clear as day PDI ing a 99 base spec mark 4 golf tdi and I couldn’t believe how good it was, I had an 85 mrk2 gti 8v at the time, still considered a fast hatch, and I thought this base spec car would literally nail my hat on in the GTI There was almost 15 years of development between the two cars and things had really improved .. I went from VW after that to Mercedes where I experienced AMG 55 V8 stuff for the first time, they were like a time Time Machine compared to the TDI golf.. then they brought out the bi turbo v12 stuff that made my GTI feel like a van I’d actually love to drive a mrk2 gti again, I had 4 of them, be so interested to see how it feels now.. I had a mrk 3 VR6, my favourite ever car, had to sell it when we bought our first house cause I couldn’t afford to put petrol in it !

Great article, the rise of the 996 is happening, like it or not.

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...I LIKE.

I was at an event at the weekend dripping with Singers and Gunther’s and the talk was all about my 996 build, the special wishes one that was there and the refurbished one with the roof box. I reckon in a few years all these guys with big money will be tired of the Singer and Air cooled resto scene and will be wanting the next cool thing - which will be high end 996 builds. MLR are getting a lot more enquirers from the US, Singapore, Middle East, etc. It’s slow at the moment but the 996 high end build scene is just bursting to get out and get moving.

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Before you go ahead with this, give krown a call in Dudley. He does it all in one day while you wait and charged me £250. I've had most of my cars done there. All the underbody liners off. Wash down and sprayed with rust inhibitor. Which is similar to that tectyl stuff. Home | BUSINESS NAME www.krown.co.uk

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Bloody annoying cars are golf's. I bought a mk8 R for the wife and it's just so good at everything. I even took it for a service and VW charged me £220. A remap will get 450 hp, not that it needs it, but it's just so capable with the AWD and torque vectoring; changes direction like a fly. I might be able to gap it, but it's the kind of car that will never be out of your mirror, with kids and a dog in the back and the wife behind the wheel.

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There's always something quicker though isn't there! I couldn't imagine rushing to grab the keys to a modern automatic hot hatch for a Sunday morning hoon across the moors

And as capable as it is..... it'll always be just a vw golf.

My MK1 Golf GTI was bright yellow and it was a fanny magnet, I had it after my Astra GTE and it was popular with the ladies, along with my killer good looks of course I forgot to put oil in it and burned the engine out....oooops.

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If you want quick just buy an electric car, the 996 isn't about speed, it’s a combination of everything. Plus I can’t imagine ever looking back after parking up at a golf like you do with a 911

Well no, a golf is not an aspirational car. It would just be annoying when you spend a fortune on your P&J then get dicked by your mate with a remap! It doesn't make me want to sell everything and just keep the golf, they're just bloody irritatingly good cars. Very difficult not to like. Infact I hate liking it!

I have garaged my 996.2 3.9 this summer, pending paintwork! It is easily my favourite 'toy', loads of grunt, suspension that soaks up our crap roads, and a sensible size. However, I have used both my VW Golf Mk1 and Mk2 this year. Firstly, 40 year old cars/suspension and our current roads are not fun. The size of them though, their sheer chuck ability, bring just as big a grin on my face as the 996. They will all embarrass newer, heavy, oversized, upstarts........

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I make you right. I never push my cars, but driving the 996, I can see how in the right hands it would be a very fluid, nimble and agile thing that could maintain speed through bends and live in the upper rev range, taking on many a more powerful modern car. In my hands, it just sighs and asks itself if this is all it has to look forward to for the rest if it's life.

My little 98 C2 is coming off the road today and it'll be spending a few weeks on the lift having engine/gearbox removed and a few issues corrected. Biggest problem is the Y cable, I took it out for a blast the other evening up to the loch and I had to pull over to make a call , needless to say I shut the engine off and it wouldn't start again. I had to borrow a couple of gents to bump start it for me. It's been steadily getting worse all summer so off it goes into hospital. What a car though , I just love how nimble it is , the engine pulls really well between 5-7k rpm. I'm going to miss driving it. I read posts on here of people upgrading from a 991 to a 992 Turbo GTS RS (or something like that) and I just can't interested. For me the 996 is perfection , even this one which is a bit scruffy , I don't have much money tied up in it , it does everything I want it to , I can fix everything on it or at least do all the grunt work for someone else , I'm not getting screwed over by Porsche to have it serviced. It's a delight to own really. I still have my mint Turbo but that hasn't been out much at all this year and I think I might have to sell it , I love that car too, top of the range 996 in perfect condition , it's a proper machine , very visceral and sorted...great cars.

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why not keep the turbo then and off the c2? surely would hold value and its a turbo..............

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Keep us updated what you’re up to with it I’m half way through the CLR build thread, really interesting..

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The Turbo has 15k miles on it, It's worth quite a bit and I will probably need the money until my new business takes off. The C2 is great fun and it doesn't owe me much at all really. I find the 300hp it has is plenty , don't get me wrong the Turbo is insanely fast when boost hits at 4k but before you know it you're in licence loosing territory. I'll keep my build thread going with the C2 as I take the engine out. The other issue is a smell of petrol in the engine oil so I think an injector might be leaking.

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I had a bright yellow Mk1 Golf GTI at Uni, I couldn't afford to run it and I was always running out of petrol, in the end it died and I scrapped it, I can't remember what was wrong with it but I didn't look after it at all and I bought it for a few hundred quid if I remember rightly knowing it needed work but I always intended to just run it into the ground, I needed a car to get to my part-time job and it was a pure means to an end, I never cared about the actual car, which was a shame because I bet now it would be quite something if I'd kept it. Back onto the subject, I see 996's going the same way, bought by people that can't afford to look after them and a huge amount of them will end up scrapped at some point, giving the rest of us loads of parts access and hopefully the sort of limited numbers on the road that the early Escorts have got now. I keep saying, all it's going to take is someone like Singer to start using it as a platform, or the MLR cars to get some really good PR that gets a hook into the right people and orders start pouring in.....and then we're off. I was talking to some guys in Dubai last night that know MLR and Marc, mainly because of Speedsters, but they said he really needs to get a business manager in who promotes what they're doing to the moon and it might just take off like a rocket.

I agree that over the next few years there will be a lot of cars that will suffer with either bodywork or mechanical issues that are run on a budget. As those cars get scrapped and broken then that is a positive for the good cars that remain. I do feel like slowly there is more love for the 996. It just takes someone like MLR to get that little bit of recognition and respect for what they are doing and who knows what may happen. We all know the 996 is a great car.

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Run of the mill golfs aren't really a comparison, I'm not even sure why you mentioned it The reason escorts are expensive is they are expensive to build. A boreham works escort will cost you around £350k, MST Evo, £250k, Scott Williams Motorsport £180k. Limited numbers only affects specific models, like the RS1800 that sold at auction for £250k recently, but I've seen better ones for sale. Numbers are increasing now, shells are available and new cars are available. The escort has a huge rallying heritage and probably the biggest enthusiast and serious competition following that spans every generation, my car is older than me. I broke a car and sold the entire lot in 5 days.

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Golf’s were initially mentioned when someone commented how annoying the ultra modern hyper capable cars are, in the hands of mere mortals. But to compare a classic 911’s performance and driving characteristics with a modern hot hatch would be to miss the point entirely. However it then went down a rabbit hole

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Yes, it was a new golf R though. This thread: "I really like my 992 GT3, it's a great car." "I had a clapped out '99 250k mile carrera with collapsed suspension and an engine rattle" Just seems like an odd comparison. Maybe people are getting carried away with nostalgia.

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Someone else mentioned Golf's, I was just chiming in. Anything is pricey if you're paying for exclusive labour and expertise, no economy of scale, everything hand built, etc, plus hardly anyone can (or will) do it, so they can charge whatever they want, it would probably cost you as much for an expert to completely rebuild an Austin Allegro rally car if he put the same effort into it. Anything is expensive to build if you pay proper experienced experts to build it with quality parts.

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Well of course, but it's a bit bigger than just niche suppliers charging a premium, it's huge in Ireland, with a very strong following in the UK too. International rally categories all feature Escorts. It's just a massive industry with high demand. The high end brings up the low end, there are loads of people building Escorts from a young teenager in his garage to sponsored rally teams. My point is, it should be no surprise why they cost a premium. I think people underestimate their popularity and following. Millington, KGP, Smith and Jones are the most powerful NA 4 cylinder engines ever produced and i bet 80% of their business is rally Escorts. No one is building engines like that for an Allegro. A bit of frank Kelly for entertainment!

That was a great video, I loved watching the rally RWD cars & Group B with my Dad back in the day.

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Yeah I get you, it's massive, but they charge a lot because it costs a lot, not because they've got 75% margins in it. I've properly looked into opening a high end Indy garage with a venture capitalist but that's a whole different thread for another forum. This does all neatly tie back into the original subject though, because what the 996 needs is someone like MLR to get a lot of PR and really take off and/or a couple of investors to back it, or someone like Singer to convince their backers to use the 996 platform to build their new cars, then the 996 will take off like the 964. If I already had a name/brand as an Indy and the expertise then maybe I'd be approaching funders with a Singer business model based on the 996 platform, it would take a lot to pull it off, but that opportunity is floating around out there just waiting for someone with the skills and backing to grab it.

I'm just musing on a coffee break - I write business plans and projections and I've been sitting here wondering if I could, in all good faith, go in front of a board and ask for £25m to kick-start this off? Is the world ready for the MLR/Singer/Tuthill bespoke 996? I could write a paper on it, but I don't know if the world is ready for the 996 part-deux yet. The 996 as a platform is massively better than the 964 as a platform, no one could deny that it's simply just a better car, but I'm still on the fence, for now I reckon it'll be like Tuthills 911K, there are currently enough of us willing to fund MLR to make about a dozen, but will it take off.....I dunno. Prices seem to be dropping even more, the 997 as well, someone was moaning on FB the other day about offers he was getting on what looked like a really nice sorted 997, he might as well have given it away. Everything I read and every video I see always has the caveat that if you buy one it'll need a £20k engine rebuilt at some point.

996 is definitely a better car on paper. Singer has become a fantastic brand and I think there are several elements to their success. For me I think there were many areas that created the brand success. A big one is the back date to how the earlier cars looked. Sadly you can’t really back date the 996 as it’s the first of its kind. They played on air cooled heritage. There’s the craftsmanship and attention to detail. They communicate that well. And let’s be honest they need to given the current price tag. Partnerships with people like Williams Advanced Engineering. 4.0 flat sixes sound great. That exclusivity and rarity is almost a virtuous circle. Like the waiting list for a Morgan - people were prepared to wait years for a Morgan… something Harvey Jones didn’t understand. There are lots of companies doing similar to Singer but people always think of Singer when describing any backdated air cooled 911. I would love to be working for a company building these quality cars. Just look at Tuthill, Theon etc they are all pieces of functional automotive art. Whoever becomes the Singer of 996s need to capture people’s imagination to start the ball rolling. Need to get someone like Chris Harris in your car Harry…

Aye, there's a lot of hours going into fabrication and preperation, which is work that's not well recognised, so having a customer base who can appreciate what is required and willing to pay is one thing, fortunately there are enough people building and restoring old Escorts to understand this. So including that cost in the markup is accepted. I don't think that's the same for 996 buyers. I'm fully with you BTW, I do appreciate the undertaking of restoring cars, especially stripped, dipped and e-coated - (though not a process suited for Escorts) and if I was in the market for one, i would be knocking on MLR's door. Sadly, I'm too poor, so I'll stick to mildly expensive Escorts (and cars).

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It's the people behind the brand, this recent posting was inspired by a coffee I had with a venture capitalist and he specifically mentioned Singer and their future vision, the people behind them aren't looking at today, they've got their eyes on the future and he wouldn't go into detail but he waved me off when I said I heard they weren't actually making much profit at the moment, he said it wasn't about "the moment". I wish I knew what the formula was for grabbing the attention of people with money to spend, this is Steve Jobs or Rob Dickinson type genius, this is persuading people that they want something that isn't built yet and they don't even know they want it yet until they see one. I wonder if it's simply a case of making a couple of dozen, then doing a massive PR drive and paying Walter Rohrl enough to say it's the best thing he's driven all year. Or is there more to it, in my opinion there is some sort of magic fairy dust that certain people have, they sprinkle it on and suddenly the product takes a whole new turn - like (if you're old enough to remember) when they were making the Makintosh computer and all these tech nerds were trying to come up with the latest tech and Steve Jobs came in and said "Nah, it just needs a coloured back on the monitor and people will want them" and they sold out before they were even built

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Exactly this. I don't think the 996 could ever be a Singer but it clearly has scope to be made into a fast road/track special that provides an incredible driving experience to the owner. They're cheap enough to not worry about losing originality , new seats, suspension , wheels , maybe a colour change and even an engine rebuild done in stages to make it affordable.

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That was the 964 until Singer started using them. People used to wrinkle their nose at them, they leaked from new, were finicky and all drove a bit different and selling a tired used one was virtually impossible, even good ones were a tough sell. It's probably one of the main cars that almost collapsed the company. Basically at least as unpopular as the 996 now.

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But don't ICE cars have a short existence in the world now don't they? Especially in California , home to Singer. I'm not sure I'd be wanting to invest in a petrol powered project no matter what is. Home computer ownership was on an incredible rise back then as was mobile phones later on , but ICE cars are on borrowed time aren't they? Could the 996 be transformed into the perfect retro EV ? Possibly with a limited range.

"That was the 964 until Singer started using them". True but the shape was still that classic G body 911 , the 996 is far from that. I'd imagine Singer's customer base must be wealthy middle aged men generally , the ones that grew up with air cooled 911's being the dream car to have.

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It's way more complicated than just nostalgia. Mostly only wealthy middle aged men own them because only wealthy middle aged men can afford them, but would the average 25yr old drive one if he could? I could write loads but I doubt many people would read it, but logically there is more reason to expect the 996 to become massive through nostalgia than a Singer. Porsche made loads of 996s, they were heralded as the best car Porsche had ever made and they sold like hot cakes and lots of kids grew up seeing them around, so if it's just nostalgia selling cars then the 996 should be massive any time now. On the subject of ICE cars longevity, have a look at who owns Williams Advanced Engineering and what are they doing investing in Singer engines? Now we're back to that conversation with the venture capitalist, but he wouldn't tell me enough for me to be able to make any bold statements, but these people aren't short-sighted.

Well potentially you've got a reliable engine supplier in hartech, so that problem is solved, providing they are onboard with the project of course, but the solution is available.

It’s amazing just how many companies have been built around the air cooled car yet the 996 has little to nothing happening ? People have dipped their toe in the water. RUF did a 996 RPM did the CSR ? Looks lovely but don’t see anyone falling over themselves for one people buy a GT3 instead I’ve seen abit online about this werks96 car ? Taking nothing away from their efforts, I don’t think it’s going anywhere... It’s got huge potential but for a lot of complicated reasons the market just doesn’t seem there for them. Be interesting to see Tuthills commissioned to build one? My basic hunch is it’s just too early, the world isn’t ready to see it the way people see air cooled cars yet. We need a few more decades of this relentless technological push with 1000bhp hyper cars safety tech electrification for people to seek out the good old days of driving it yourself, if you’re actually going to be aloud to by then is the question !

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The RUF looks lovely whereas the CSR has a bit of Max-Power about it imho Won't be long before we see more companies taking on the 996 as they are cheap enough now to provide a good base. I guess one of the challenges at the moment is that you can't really back date a 996 like you can with the older stuff and thats where the money seems to be at the moment

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I don't think hardly anyone drives them , they're boutique , niche , exquisite automotive art and most are on display or in a collection. Imagine the owner looking underneath and seeing a drop of oil forming from a leaking pushrod tube ! They'd have a meltdown. What do you think these VC's are hinting at? Hybrid power? Maybe Hydrogen Ice or Harry Metcalfe's bio /sustainable fuel ? BTW , How did Border Rievers get a RUF 996 to sell? I do like that purple CSR above. The 996 CCC was a nice looking thing too...

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I could guess, but I don't know, I do know that they wouldn't be putting money into a dead end. They're building something that in ten years will likely be worth a lot of money. If I were wondering whether to back high end ICE stuff like Singer then I'd be trying to filter out who the real buyers are. In the UK it's skewed because, for example, the 996 is seen as a cheap way into a 911, it's not seen as a premium product. However, in complete contrast, at our monthly meets I doubt there are many people in attendance that aren't millionaires, so there might be two hundred millionaires turn up and there are a few 996's and they get all the attention because they're very nice ones that have had a lot of money spent on them, so they're seen as a premium and niche/desirable product, so if scale that up and you've got a million millionaires who have the possibility to have their heads turned onto owning high end 996's, then you might be interested in funding a brand that will be big in ten years, like Singer and you might employ some very clever marketing people to convince the target audience that the 996 is now a premium platform. Sccop up a few thousand of them cheap then punt them out at $3m a shot. It's possible, for example, frankly Rolex are rubbish at timekeeping, their watches aren't anywhere near as reliable or accurate as a £10 Timex, but they convince a lot of people to part with a lot of money every year to buy a mass produced watch that is crap at telling the time. It's all about perception and marketing, you can convince people to part with outrageous and repeatable sums of money if you can make your product desirable. I'd be very willing to bet that if Singer started using the 996 and had some big names pulling up to events and premieres in them then it wouldn't take long before they became just like the 964 and went from zero to hero.

H, that's the very reason i don't have a Rolex

Quotes source post: 2761775

Aye, was spot on, must admit, i did LOL!

I made enough money buying and selling watches that all the ones I have left now were basically free. I could tell you what I made on just one but I'd end up in trouble for bragging, but there was a point where it was like free money, it was stupid, genuinely stupid what people were willing to give me for a watch, that's how I know that you can convince people of anything and if you get enough to buy in then the rest will follow. Trust me, with a decent bit of marketing you'd have loads of wealthy people driving round in $3m 996s wearing denim flares and with mullet haircuts if it all became the "must-have" accoutrements of the day. If you can sell a 964 for $2-3m with some fancy hype and a make-up job, then a 996 should be much easier, they're far better cars to start with.

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Just take a look at Richard Mille, frankly horrific looking things, like a child only a mother could love - yet people seem to buy them. It must be the image because it certainly isn’t the design!

Yeah I'm a watch guy, have been collecting them since I was at school and I don't get RM either, there is no way anyone looks at one of those and thinks it's pretty, so it's purely about what it is, rather than how it looks, which if it's some sort of engineering wizardry then fair enough, but they're ugly on purpose. Good example of how to get people to buy into something expensive, it looks like the sort of watch you'd get free with a kids magazine, but people will part with insane money for them and then to really take the piss they'll wear them on their right wrist - it makes my teeth itch.

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Some people have got to have the name for the social media posts, tbe particularly cringey ones where they post holding the steering wheel with the watch on full display. On tbe plus side it sounds like,e you were a ke to financially benefit from it

Quotes source post: 2761917

Ive had a couple of Richard Mille’s, I’ve been to the factory in Switzerland and had dinner with Richard’s’s, I was one of about 20 guests. I agree some are god awful, but there are some subtle ones such as the 005 in titanium. They are definitely a marmite brand, but if you understand the concept and engineering behind them, they are special watches, not just bling.

Has anyone got a high resolution version of this image? It will finally replace my sam fox desktop wallpaper!!

I'd keep that quiet Ray

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I wasn't overly familiar with the brand so googled it... Got the decimal point in the wrong place at first glance clearly some of you guys move in completely different circles to me..!!

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There was a willy waving competition like that on a Rolex FB watch group, loads of people trying to outdo each other, so to show it up as pathetic I said surely most people wear two watches and only paupers would wear one Rolex and did a picture, they almost banned me for that, they were Americans and didn't get the humour. I think I have the picture on this laptop....one min....

Hi Harry, looks like you had a time keeping error on the go there chum... ? (-: The best watch I ever owned was a Seiko automatic it was given to me by a friend looked almost identical to those in your image, and over many years it was never off my wrist so much so that I even managed to put a ding in it`s case, along with a small particle of mig welding splatter melted into the "glass," I put it into a city centre jewellers for repair/servicing, and they told me that they would have to send it off to Seiko for repair.....Seemingly lost in the post, and at the time they told me that Seiko no longer made automatic watches and offered me a pick from a range of similar looking battery electric Seiko`s, The real issue was that that watch felt a part of me and more so that my friend had surprised me by gifting it to me....All water long passed under the bridge and the battery powered Seiko has long gone, as has the friend that gifted me the auto wind.... I still annoy myself by thinking someone perhaps at the jewellers perhaps conned me out of that watch...! Enough of watches, picked my C4S and a £4k+ bill from my OPC today.....Still have a parts issue to sort out.... Hmm..!

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UK and Dubai times I'm guessing...

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So what you're saying is I need to buy a 996 as you've identified the contents of my back wardrobe? This is like Alcoholics Anonymous but I have to confess to 'warming' to the idea of a 996.1. I think the size in particular is perfect. I've started looking . It would have to be a minter with lots of history of work done ideally a C4 with sunroof but, as others have said, at the entry price point and the availability of upgrades/parts there's scope to turn and average one around. Buying in at the rightprice there's not a lot, if any, money to lose other than maintenance that comes with 25+yr old cars. The first GT3 the 996.1 piqued my interest with entry in the 70 bags (Phil Raby has a nice one up) but I most have been track modded and I think will be too hard for our shite roads. Sports suspension on the G-Series was enough for me to swap them out for standard to actually get a good ride on our poor roads.

I think this is what an equivalent 996 Singer (esk) build should be based on, would love to copy this at some point on my 996.

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Yeah, that's the one to have I reckon...!!

I’d love to make a start on the seats, I’ve got 997 seats in my 996, this makes a massive difference, I would love to do the inserts in the Porsche Pepita material the same as the below from the Classic Club Coupe that Porsche did, but can’t find anything similar just the smaller houndstooth type variant.

Quotes source post: 2761562

Funnily enough I was randomly scrolling on Insta and came cross Retropower Cars who have built a full carbon Austin Allegro to order with a red top Type R engine in it. I didn't look cheap.

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It would need a large investment to build that car, so it would have to be Singer who did it, otherwise for anyone else they'd need to start with a GT3 or a GT3RS to get the engine, and I can't see many people wanting to spend £100k on a 996 GT3 to turn it into a special and ruin it's originality. That's the issue I had and it's why the donor car was a C4S, it's the same shell as an RS but we knew we'd be starting with a standard Carrera engine, which is fine because it's going to be a road car, so it all works for me, it's been upgraded to a 3.9L and it will be perfect for me for the road, but if Singer do it people will be expecting a 4.0L 500bhp engine, so the obvious answer is the 997 4.0L type engine, copy that and stick it in. The path is there and it shouldn't be too hard to make it happen, but people have to see the 996 as a premium product first.

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They've been building that for ages, infact they have two on the go. Jonny on Late brake show is building one too. Anything goes at retropower, they're way over priced. Ilove about 5 miles away, i wouldn't go there if you paid me. But you won't find a specialist Allegro builder, take your pick for an escort: Motor Sport Tools Scott Williams Motorsport Denn Motorsport West Wales Motorspares Group 4 fabrications Boreham Motorworks Viking Motorsport Plus MANY more, mine was made in collaboration with major motorsport and JEMS. Who's making Allegro panels? Take your pick for an escort: Magnum Ex-press Higgins will supply a complete new shell Old Ford Autos Engines - I'd be running out of fingers. Ex rally co driver Howard Davis had a youtube channel visiting rally teams and industry suppliers, he visited quite a few escort specialists from the above list, you really get a sense of how big the industry is. You can count the number of Allegros being built on one hand.

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Pretty sure the RS is a narrow body C4 shell

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Yeah you're right, I'm getting all discombobulated. I wanted a wide body and that was why I chose the C4S, I think they look nicer, but yeah the first GT3/RS was a narrow body car. It was the Turbo and the GT2 that took on the wide body. I was quite clear that whilst we are using mainly RS gear I didn't want to build a replica, so we decided on leaving a lot of the C4S stuff in place like the light bar and probably the front end and skirts, but a GT2 rear bodykit, or at least the spoiler arrangement at the back, so we thought it would work well like that as the GT2 was a wide body.

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My original comment wasn't about scale, it was about quality and cost, and if you put quality into any build then it will be expensive. In fact scale and competition help drive prices down. I don't know the shop doing the Allegro but it won't be cheap if it's a one-off bespoke carbon and a quality job. If every man and his dog is churning out Escort parts and builds then hopefully there is a bit of choice and lower costs because of scale and competition.

Retro power built a mrk 1 Escort for Gordon Murray.

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Well if anyone knows a decent car build then it should be him.

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Take a look on AT and see how few 996.1 C4's are available with a manual gearbox..... ONE !!!!

It does look like more people are now taking the 996 seriously based on what’s for sale and by that I mean really good cars plus the amount of people talking about them. For the money they are still unbelievable value and for anyone owning a good one they should be a keeper

100% keeping mine.

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You'd think so - but those buggers put a IRS rear on it, which in my view killed the ethos of the car - they could have made an exotic lightweight atlas and 6 linked it - a modern escort is a far departure from the 70's gartrac builds with panhard rod. There's plenty of things to change on cars, but you have to keep the fundamentals.

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The market for them isn't the lower end entry level people in the UK, they need to be marketing them to high end customers, wealthy people in the Middle East and Far East who didn't see so many 996's back then, so now they're seen as quite exotic and they get a lot of attention, it'a big shame and a bit of a dropped ball that MLR didn't get mine ready for Icons of Porsche, the organisers wanted to put it on a plinth on display as a special feature and with tens of thousands of millionaires walking around at one of the worlds biggest Porsche festivals I have a feeling it would have put them very well on the map for 996 customs, but sadly it won't be ready until spring now. I think it'll start to happen slowly but the 996 needs to shake off this UK image of it being a cheap car that is a bit of a liability.

Harry, realistically, how much do you reckon a decent example of a 996 could sell for over in Dubai...? Forget spec for now , just the 996 in general, say a 996.1 Carrera, manual with sunroof and 4wd...?

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There are some advertised for mid to high £20's but they're Jap imports and unknown quantities, no one really buys that sort of stuff here, everyone wants high end kit, so you'll sell twenty crazily priced 993s before you'll sell one cheap and unknown 996. The money will be in a rebuilt 996 to a very high standard, if mine was LHD I expect it would sell in the first week of being here and if my 930 was LHD it would already be sold for more than it's cost me.

Used 2004 Porsche 911 Turbo (996.2) For Sale (U698) | Approved Automotive Approved Automotive offer this 2004 Porsche Turbo (996.2) 3.6 2dr Convertible Manual Petrol with 45,300 Kms For Sale. Contact us today to arrange a test drive! www.approvedautomotive.com This is a good example, 996 Turbo £80k and they'll get that easily.

Interesting, as i grew up in South Africa, i just searched through their AT classified ads..... a manual 1999 C4 is commanding £30k+in arctic silver . I can't tell whether they're UK or JDM spec but wow.

Used 2003 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic S (996.2) For Sale (U913) | Approved Automotive Approved Automotive offer this 2003 Porsche Carrera 2 Tiptronic S (996.2) 3.4 2dr Coupe Automatic Petrol with 30,507 Kms For Sale. Contact us today to arrange a test drive! www.approvedautomotive.com Standard C2 - £34k

Jap spec GTS £85K Used 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS PDK (997.2) For Sale (U1042) | Approved Automotive Approved Automotive offer this 2012 Porsche Carrera GTS PDK (997.2) 3.8 2dr Coupe Petrol Petrol with 7,358 Kms For Sale. Contact us today to arrange a test drive! www.approvedautomotive.com

Quotes source post: 2762092

I’ve had similar thoughts, just without pushing the budget to a GT3 engine and all the extra work that would be involved putting that in. Perhaps a 3.9 like Hartech do if you were keen to enhance the original engine coupled with a lightweight flywheel. The styling, especially with the ‘duck tail’ is spot on though.

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I've been through this with my build and if you want a GT3 engine then start off with a GT3, it'll be easier in the long run. But my brief was "Build me a car that is just like a GT3RS but without the frantic engine and grumpy notchy gearbox". The GT3RS has got a grabby gearbox, it's like a 964RS until it's warmed up and even then it's notchy and doesn't snick into gear like you'd expect it to. I read a post recently where someone said it was the one thing that ruined their GT3RS experience for them. The other thing is the engine, it's a thing of wonder and revs very quickly and up to 8,000-something, which when you're in the mood is brilliant, but it's also hard work, I like how it revs but it's just too much for a road car - which a sarcastic person might say "Well that's why it's in a race car like the RS". So I basically wanted a GT3RS but with a torquey motor and nice slick gearbox, so we started with a C4S and changed most of everything (except the engine and gearbox) to RS parts, then the engine is getting the 3.9L treatment with a LWFW. I'm hoping this is the ultimate road car, I could have done it the other way around, taken my GT3RS and put a new gearbox in, raised the suspension and changed all that round, but that would have been a bit nuts considering what it will probably be worth as a standard car in a few years. There is an interview with Colin from Ninemeister and he says often someone comes in wanting a car built thinking they want a race car with lights but they end up leaving with something a lot more drivable when the reality of what that would be like every day on the road is explained to them. My GT3RS is a wonderful thing, but you'd be perverse to call it the ultimate road car, it needs a different engine and gearbox and more ground clearance to be a great road car. I question myself all the time if I am going in the right direction with my 996 build, but buying my actual GT3RS convinced me that I am, it's amazing but it's no road car, it's a track car that is fun on the roads occasionally. I'm not even sure a standard GT3 is any better, I think a tricked up C4S or C2S without a GT engine is the way forward for the ultimate road car.

Interesting thread. I see that people have been talking up the 996 since at least 2020, and it hasn't arrived but presumably there will come a point where all the tatty ones have gone and only the survivors are left, and then try picking up an unmodified or untracked car. I'd like to put another Porsche in the garage at some point, just as a drivers car, and right now the internal debate that I'm having with myself, is whether I shoot for a Boxster or a non-GT/non-turbo 996, both of which would have to be manual and otherwise modest, so I could work on them myself. Sadly, around here, I'd still need 35-44kEUR for a 996 C2 manwel c 125k (km) which is a lot more than you guys need for a decent one (at say 20kGBP) so maybe I've already missed the boat. The tips and cabs are cheaper but of no interest for my use case.

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Ai messed the wheels up, but it's highER definition and possibly a slightly larger file size : https://i.postimg.cc/7PQGBqc8/Silver-Porsche-911-in-a-Neon-Garage.png