Track oil consumption normal?

Hi all, I have been driving my 996.2 for some time since the rebuild, done at a very reputable shop here in Europe. Anyways, the car did the first 1000 miles or so, went for an oil change, filter was 99% clean. Anyways, this was at; approx. 77000 miles, then I drive it for 500 miles or so and the digital gauge read 6/8 full and the dipstick 2/3, mind you so no noted consuption, also in the first 1000 miles, I always measure the next morning and on the same exact spot to ensure consistency. Then I drive to the track; 1st track day total miles 150 (t/o 50 hard track miles with Semi slicks etc.), next day digital 4/8 and dipstick around 1/2. 2nd track day total miles 150 as above, next dat digital 2/8 and dipstick around 1/3. Now I need to stress that I really push the car to the absolute limit. I read somewhere AOS, but mine is new, also that there is some pickup in the wet sump that in high G sucks oil from the pan. Bottom line, am I fine, or should I warranty my engine?

Why don't you add oil until it reads right on the dipstick and then monitor it? Track days are hard on all the components, engine, tires, suspension, etc. Add oil and check it again after 500 miles. Just my two cents.... Some people do an oil/filter change immediately following a track day. What weight and type of oil are you running?

What oil are you running? Pushing the car hard with slick, it's possible you could be pushing the stock AOS to its limit and upgrading to the track version of UAOS is highly recommended.

Vect - I agree with DBJoe996. Only start a track day with topped off oil. The oil level will be fine for the day if you don’t have leaks. 1/10 second of aeration with a normal sump and low oil will leave you extremely vulnerable to spun bearings, etc. Full is mandatory to keep a stock sump M96 alive. If you push hard, use a high performance oil that resists shear and aeration. I used almost half a quart for a total of 60 minutes driving 9/10ths my last track day. You can check AOS function with a manometer. I use a .1 dipstick in my .2 motor. I use a plain UAOS and X51 baffles in stock sump.

Vect, tell us about the rebuild, what sump you are using and whether you are using the factory street or motorsports AOS? Any leaks or plumes of smoke on the track or after you start it?

You could also look into the intake and see if oil is there. That would indicate some oil is getting pass the AOS.

It wasnt uncommin fory 3.4l to burn .5 liters in a track weekend. Thats about 4-5 bars in ths readout. U need to check each morn before starting the day so the motor and oil levels r in a consistant state when the measurement is taken.

Warranty the engine? Its WAY to premature to even talk about that.... The Stock AOS is very inefficient and is easily over-loaded ,especially on the Track .. High mileage engines and brand new engines that are not fully broken-in place more burden on the AOS and increase the likelyhood of over-loading ... If there is a question about the where the engine is fully broken-in, there is a easy/simple blow-by test I designed that can quantify the ring seal... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...=Engine+health I really worry about your oil starvation on the Track....on sticky tires....starting at 2/3rd full then burning another 1/2 qt leaves you extremely venerable to starvation..( it even states this in the owners manual).. Always use quality Track oil at full level ( or more with UAOS Track Version) .. always use a 50 weight.....Increased oil capacity is always better.. UAOS Track Version is THE best single product to combat oil starvation...

Track oil consumption very normal and very not preferable. As @hbdunn said, check you're intake - if it's oily (I bet it is), like @Porschetech3 said, buy his UAOS with track drain and stop burning the oil that should be lubricating you're engine. I really wonder how many engines were lost to people running less than full oil levels to help the AOS, not help the AOS enough, burn the little oil they had until the level far too low and then blow the damn thing up, I bet its a bunch. Running the UAOS with drain my consumption was 1/8 QT/20 min session.

As a general update (pics below); FYI I am running an FVD deep sump with baffles, oil pressure is good. 10w60 Shell Racing (people here swear by it). 1. Checked the coolant level and it seems a bit lower than normal. Maybe 1/2 quart, however no oil present. 2. AOS was changed with the rebuild 3. Throttle body had a drop of oil on the valve itself on the inside part 4. Intake "t" was slick with oil, there is a picture of the napkin. It's not like it was covered in it more like a film. \ 5. Oil filler tube has more "sludge" present than normal.

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As a general update (pics in one post above); FYI I am running an FVD deep sump with baffles, oil pressure is good. 10w60 Shell Racing (people here swear by it). 1. Checked the coolant level and it seems a bit lower than normal. Maybe 1/2 quart, however no oil present. 2. AOS was changed with the rebuild 3. Throttle body had a drop of oil on the valve itself on the inside part 4. Intake "t" was slick with oil, there is a picture of the napkin. It's not like it was covered in it more like a film. \ 5. Oil filler tube has more "sludge" present than normal. What is a UAOS? Which one is recommended? What is the benefit of a .1 dipstick ? I can borrow it from my .1, any recommendation on a specific guide? Hey as mention above, deep sump, everything was done from resleeving the block to new pistons etc. I am using the street/stock AOS, generally some times I get a white "puff" on startup, but that goes away in 3-5 secs and then no smoke what so ever. On the way back yesterday I asked my wife who was driving behind to check for smoke and she said absolutely nothing, plus I would also notice. THanks, checked the throttle body valve and it had on the inside part a solid droplet of oil, the "t" part of the intake had a coating of oil (thin film) not too much Roger, thanks for the tip! Thats allot as well good to know. My only track reference point are a m50b25 (e36) and a m54b30 (e46) which both were golden Yup, all great points, I run currently the stock AOS, which one is the track one? I have a deep sump / baffles kit (FVD) and run 10w60 that is extremely popular here. I mean I burn it seems roughly through 1/6 QT per 30 mins currently. With the deep sump + baffles, stock AOS and 10w60 racing oil that is.

So I just added 1L of oil and checked my data. So I drove 1100 miles incl. the 2 track days (2x - 30min session) and allot of very fast driving in Germany, so autobahn 100 mph, a Slalom event. Well basically the moment oil is operating temp, I push the car to it's limit.

Vect, It's been 18 years since i ran a factory AOS on my 2002 996 for the street and track. After 2 failures back to back on the track I had enough of the frail and poorly designed factory AOS. Yes, my oil disappearance during track days was high like yours. Some of it from oil consumption creating plumes of smoke which is not good because if not fixed can lead to hydralock and some of it from pooling in various engine parts which isn't good either. To put it simply, get the factory AOS off your engine ASAP. It will only hurt you on the track amd create a boatload of issues on the street. About the time of my second AOS failure on the track, my Indy was looking for a fix for the AOS failure problem as well as oil starvation problem that was becoming evident on M96 engines. So they contacted the Grand Am Racing teams in the US that ran the M96 engine for a few years in the Grand Am racing series, before the Mezger race cars were allowed. Their goal was to figure out how they kept the M96 running on the track so they could do the same things to my engine. What they found for racing was the following. 1. Needed more oil quantity than what was in the OEM oil sump pan to make sure there was always oil under the oil tube when the car was under heavy G braking and turns. So the 2qt deep sump was developed. Over time additional solutions have been developed from accusump systems to the UIDS. 2. Needed a better AOS than the OEM AOS which could handle processing more oil under heavy Gs that would eliminate the risk of hydralock. So the Porsche Motorsports AOS was developed. Over time an additional solution developed called the UAOS Track Version which is substantially better than the Porsche Motosports AOS. 3. Needed better cooling. So air flow parts in combination with more water cooling capabilities such as center radiators and bigger radiators became the norm. After talking to your rebuild shop about the issues and performing a blow by test I would consider the following as a bare minimum solution (what I do) and the maximum solution (what I am moving too). Bare Minimum 1. UAOS Track version. Allows you to run 1qt extra oil over full. If your blow by test is good, skip has found yiu can run 2qt of oil over full using the UAOS Track. Wow! This is in contrast to running the factory AOS at 0.5qts of oil under full and the Porsche Motorsports AOS at full. Think about that for a second. Why run an AOS with 0.5 qts less oil or PMS AOS at full oil when you can now run 1-2qts over full with the UAOS Track. No brainer. 2. 2QT deep sump with x51 baffle. Provides another 2 qts of oil on top of the extra 1-2 qts of oil using the UAOS track. Why run a 0.5 qt pan when you can run a 2 qt pan. Remember, the M96 engine NEEDS lots of high quality oil to control oil pressures and starvation. So you need an AOS that can process large amounts of oil and you need parts that can hold and handle the extra oil. OEM AOS = (0.5qt) under full 0.5 Deep Sump = +0.5qts over dull Total Oil = 0qts PMS AOS = 0qt 2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full Total Oil = +2qts over full UAOS Track = +1 to +2qts over full 2.0 Deep Sump = +2qts over full Total Oil = +3 to +4 over full Which one makes the most sense to you? I choose the 3rd option as a bare minimum. The maximum option is another discussion that most won't evolve too because they haven't yet spent the money to do option 3 above. We can talk about that at another time.

https://lnengineering.com/the-porsch...plete-kit.html

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Thank you, I am currently running the deeper sump with baffles => https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD2079880...t-oil-pan.html , and using high performance 10w60, keeping the temps and oil pressure in check. I do not have any signs of AOS failure, what makes you think my AOS is gone?

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The FVD sump is only a 0.5. It's suboptimal unless you are only autocrossing the car. You need 1.5 qts more oil. You are putting your engine at risk. Sure your brand new OEM AOS may be in fine working order. That's not the issue. The issue is twofold. (1) the factory AOS cannot handle running "full" oil. So you have to run 0.5 qts less oil which means you are suboptimzed even before you get on the track. (2) the factory AOS CANNOT process the oil under Gs on the track due to its inability to separate and then drain the oil back into the sump. Why do you think Porsche came out with the Porsche Motosports AOS?

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Don't get me wrong, I believe most of what is said on this thread. However I am trying to assess what is really necessary to participate at a 30 min track session. With my old e46 / e92 I never heard of so many mods needed. Yet here with the 996 there is always something.

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No worries. You can do what you feel is best. I'm just giving you a historical perspective on the issues and solution from what was done on the track with the M96 engine to keep it running and why. This issues and solutions are ongoing today and are continually being enhanced with the development of new solutions every race and HPDE season. IMHO, you are putting your expensive new rebuild at risk if you dont protect it from hydralock and oil starvation for a couple of thousand dollars in parts. The faster you get, the more Gs you pull. The more Gs, the more risk. Then BOOM.

I'd listen to GC, Zbomb, Skip and few other folks. These guys have put in substantial time in at the track with their cars and are speaking from experience. A flat six platform that is not a mezger has it's share of issues when pushing to the max and can't be compared to other engines. I'd do the UAOS track version and do a max oil fill at the minimum if you want to avoid a 2nd engine rebuild.

I need to sleep on this, but you have all convinced me of trading my 2 996s for a turbo

Are you using any data logging to see oil temp and pressure? The .1 dipstick is shorter so the same thing can be achieved using a .2 and over filling. If you do this you will get the occasional big white puff on the track. I experienced this in my .1 three years ago and moved to skips uaos with excellent results. Probably close to 50 track days.

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Why take the loss when you have a brand new rebuilt engine in an exceptional car? All you need to do is add a couple of parts that you are missing and you have solved for the well documented and known risks that we have all been discussing and managing for 20+ years. The M96 is an extremely durable engine if you add the right parts and procedures. The problem is most folks don't. You are starting with a clean slate with a new rebuild. Why not do it right going forward. It's pretty easy with adding 2 parts. WDB gave you a link for one of the two parts in a previous post.

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Well, you can�t go wrong, but drive it to make sure. Turbos handle differently.

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I have a buddy who spent 5 figures sorting his E46 M3, versus my car, which is bone stock. A data point of one or two is not helpful. Overall, these are both German cars, and they are both hit or miss, but the 911 is considered generally one of the most reliable car models.

Yeah, I don't loose any sleep over the M96. All issues are well documented and every issue has a preventative solution that's cost effective and easy to implement. With a properly rebuilt engine and the proper bolt on parts, i would sleep like a baby with a smile on my face, dreaming about how i can shave a couple of seconds a lap off my times. Followed by where I would take my wife out to dinner in my 996 after the track day. They are durable cars if you want them to be.

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Already have an X50 slick top with Aero and I love it 😻

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I agree with you 100%, personally I think the m96/97 platforms are great. For one they allow for nearly anyone to get into the hobby. I love the sound the character and all. What I personally need to think about is simply does one turbo with dry sump, more power etc answer more what I need it to be on the track and that�s all.

I guess it all depends on what you got out of your rebuild and how good of a driver you are. Did you get any performamce enhancement? The best advice I ever got early on was to learn to drive an underpowered car without nannies to develop the skills to balance the car around the track. To put it another way, the more horsepower and nannies your car has, the easier it is to get great laptimes, but the less you learn how to drive. If it was my 996 with a freshly rebuilt engine, i would add the UAOS and 2qt deep sump, LSD if you don't already have one, add a great set of coilovers and sway bar, a floating hat big brake kit like the Brembo GT or the next best case the Girodisc 2 piece system, and then learn to drive the car fast with balance and under control. In a few years, you may decide that you want a full time dedicated track car and then pick up a 996 or 997 Cup. Tracking your car and learning to become a great driver is a process over time. Anybody can get a brand new GT4 and drive fast around the track. I watch them every track day. But a subset can actually drive.

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I love my 6TT on track. I removed the awd, unplugged the psm, put on an awesome set of coilovers and it's a fantastic machine. It cannot be overheated and the oil temperature and pressure are perfect. They are no longer cheap to buy and prices continue to increase so "devaluing" one with track driving might not be the best financial plan.

Incredibly informative thread that�s not 100+ pages long (yet), therefore nice and easy to read and comprehend. Thankful for all you RL�ers that put in the time to educate the rest of us. I also vote for prepping your C2 over going to a TT. (Like you�re not going to mod the turbo anyway? Lol) NB + NA + RWD =

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Thanks ! I allready have a GT2 in the making, will get it back in the next couple of weeks. As I have 2 996 2 Carreras, it simply occurred to me why not to consolidate upwards and call it a day. Then I simply don�t need to bother with the research as I will have a dry sump.

Sure. There are lots of ways to spend money on cars. Whatever you do going forward, make sure you take the time to understand the issues, solutions and costs associated with the next car you buy, so you arent suprised. Doesn't matter which one, they all have them and they all cost money. Some substantially more than the others. Especially if you are tracking the car. On the grand scheme of Porsche costs and performance, the M96 powered 996 is the hidden gem. It's inexpensive to buy, easy to address the issues with preventative solutions, and the handling and analog feel is an incredible experience to drive on the street and track. But pound per pound, it's the best deal in the Porsche world. Doubt the prices will stay this low for long.

Hi all, just wanted to share that I kept my promise, just traded the 2 996 C2s for a Turbo 🙂. Thank you all for the support! I am happy got 2 Mezger engines.

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The 996.1 is one of the best track cars I�ve ever driven. I sold my original �99 race car I built to buy a 570rwhp 996TT track car with a 2wd cup car suspension, essentially a gt2 clone. Worst decision I ever made. Luckily, last year, a rennlister sent me an ad for the �00 spec 996 that I had seen years ago and patterned my original 996 build from. And it was for sale at one of the neighboring garages at my home track! They let me drive it one session and it was everything I had been missing. I still run my 3.2 987 boxster s development car and my 3.9L Cayman DD/DE occasionally, but my 3.4L spec 996 remains my track weapon of choice. With the FVD, 10W60, and stock AOS, along with a Used Oil Analysis at every change to monitor wear, there is high likelihood you would never have had an issue. And if you did, the UOAs would have allowed you to spot it well before it became catastrophic.

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Why is that the case? I�d imagine a GT2 clone would be amazingly fun to drive.

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While you edited it out " This really is rennlist at its worst ", this is a forum and it implies that we can freely share opinions / thoughts / ideas without unnecessary scrutiny. For my defense, I have never stated that you or anybody else should buy a turbo, I loved my C2's. I am going to state a very simple fact; Overall, the Mezger engine is far superior to the standard "Carrera" M96, there is no one on the planet that will say otherwise. From longevity, durability to lubrication, done.

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Throttle modulation. You essentially end up butchering the corners and just try to have it somewhat pointed down the straight when the turbos spool up. And they are aren�t near as light and nimble as a 996.1.

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Because you came to one of the most knowledgeable forums on rennlist seeking guidance and came away �convinced� to sell one of the best dollar for dollar track cars you can buy. I have owned both a 996tt and 997tt and had major issues with both of them. Whereas I�m up to a couple hundred track days with stock M96/M97 engines without a single engine issue. In addition, I get to do the analysis on a half dozen M96/M97 engines a month that have been completely disassembled, both failed and running. And 80% of the failures would have been avoided by doing exactly what you were already doing. Lastly, I have the privilege of turning these engines into hardened Hartech endurance racing engines, which have won season end championships over said mezger engines (GT3�s, haven�t seen anyone successfully campaign a TT in an endurance league) both here in the states and in the UK. And yes, my edit was to try and keep things on the positive and avoid the **** show that I have been guilty of participating in and sometimes even escalating in the past.

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This is very similar to my thoughts. Can�t imagine wanting to drive a turbo on the track vs my 3.4 m96. Sorry @theprf

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Agree. This is why the GT3 cars being NA is such a big deal, still to this day. The M96 is just fine when the oil modifications are made, which is what a lot of other sports car brands need as well anyway.

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Look, say what you will. I was not talking about racing credentials... The engine is better full stop. Also I had the honor of meeting Joachim Stuck (if you know you know) yesterday, and we were just speaking about Mezger engines, I will take his opinion all day long. Will see the gent in the next couple of weeks for a rally, where I am taking my GT2 build. You are more than welcome to have your opinion and I respect yours. Again, I loved the track days with my C2's but the turbo with 6 pistons, intercoolers, KW suspensions (in my case and my opinion) stops better / accelerates better. Yes throttle control is something completely different, however I love having to think when the turbo kick's in, also 4WD powerslides are soo much fun. My two cents.

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Well I've never driven an NA car on track so I have nothing to compare. My VW is supercharged and obviously the 6TT is turbocharged. I'm not a good enough driver to extract the most out of my car and I probably would not drive at 10/10 anyway so the NA vs. FI discussion isn't really important to me. Adding: I sometimes think that I would be happier with a more conventional front engine/rear drive car like an E46 or similar. I see those drivers tossing their cars into corners and basically ignoring slip angles in the rear that would send any 911 into the grass. I remember my E36 M3 was just like that. I do like a challenge though because it's too easy otherwise (see: M2 Competition for a car that you can drive like a video game).

Vect, good luck with the turbo. Truly hope it gives you what you are looking for. But let's not forget to make an important point here. If you are going to get a rebuild on your M96, you better go to someone that knows the M96 engine and knows what they are doing. Looks like you may have had a questionable rebuild, so I get the panic. But what really gets me shaking my head in disbelief, is when the engine builder does not prepare the newly rebuilt engine with the proper bolt on solutions for oil starvation and oil pressure. Especially if they know it's going to be tracked. The M96 is not to blame. The engine builder and owner are to blame due to lack of knowledge and experience. But I get it, there is alot to learn. Best of luck.

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Hi there, the m96 and the engine builder is not to blame. I ended up driving 5000 miles, no consumption other than track due to as we discussed earlier AOS. For me it was, I needed to do the following, AOS / Cooling / Brakes which are all done on the turbos *with brakes the 6 piston are a direct bolton.

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I get it. Here is the funny thing about my narrow body M96 996.2. A long time ago I put on a Brembo GT big brake kit 355F/345R and a Guard LSD, and could out brake every 996 GT3 and 996 Turbo on the track. It was pretty easy to out handle the 996 Gt3 and 996 turbo as well, with a set of Bilstein Pss9 coilvers, tarret sway bars and drop links. If the GT3 upgraded their suspension set up, and brakes, it then it came down to driver skills. But the turbo is a heavy car. Even with a upgraded suspension set-up and brakes, the turbo was a heavy car in the turns versus my narrow body speed boat. For sure, the 996 Gt3 and 996 turbo had the power to pass me on the straights, but i would always close in the braking zone and thru/out of the corner. Imho, all the 996 M96 needs assuming you have upgraded the suspension and brakes is an extra 80 HP/TQ in a professional rebuild and the car will be highly competitive on the track with the newer models in lap times. No question, the newer models have 150+ more HP and all the nannies to cover any short fall in driver skills, but the 996 narrow body really is the perfect track car due to it being so light and the ease in set-up for agility and balance. Looking fwd to hearing about your adventures. I had thought about doing what the PRF has done with a 996 turbo many, many times over the years for the extra power. But the reality is that i prefer the driving characteristics of the narrow body 996. Which is why i still own my 996.2 after 22 years. Yep, I have driven a good number of the 944, 964, 993, 996, 997, 991, 992, 986, 987, 718 model variations on the track over the past 22 years, always comparing and contrasting. But keep coming back to the 996 narrow body M96. At the end of the day for all of us, its personal preference. No right or wrong answer. Good luck.

My car's a bit porky yet at about 3200 pounds without driver with 1/2 fuel. I feel I can get rid of another 100 pounds without doing anything too drastic. I've got an H9 battery and the stock exhaust which must weigh 80 pounds. Those are not made up numbers, that's what the scales showed. I'd bet if any of you drove this thing (1) you'd be faster than I am and (2) you'd want one just like it.

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Yeah, those two, and then the stock seats are quite heavy.