Buying a 996 - Impossible to test drive, be taken seriously, or not encounter a jerk

Hello Ladies and Gents, I need some serious guidance as I am getting zero progress... Below is my story on attempting to buy a 996... TLDR; I want to get a 996.1 (or .2) but there are none in my region (Oklahoma or within 500 miles) that are sold by someone who will give me the time of day. I just need to test drive one before I throw any money at it, but I do not want to drive 10 hours to be like "I don't like it". No one will let me test drive. I had a gun brandished on me at a used car dealer over a 20k 996 automatic. On the internet, every seller is clueless (or acting) to the issues that plague the car and won't entertain me (like come on, do you even want to sell the car?). There is only 1 or 2 dealerships with a 996 near me, and one is a 60k turbo 996, the other is an auto *(I refuse to pretend to be interested in order to test drive it... it's got the wrong trans). This is really, really making me bitter. I am thinking of saving my money in hopes that the 997 crowd might be a bit more sophisticated and respectful but who am I kidding! People are people.... Also, I don't care for the 997 interior (meh), and my gf thought the front end looked like a bug haha! I really think the 996 was very modern, but the 996.1 has everything I want (headlights that are arguably more modern) and the cables and the dual-row IMS, and the less-stressed engine... I need help! Ok, Why am I posting... I am losing steam and need guidance from some experts on where to go from here. I think I need to stay away from FB marketplace and maybe Craigslist. I have encountered nothing but people who owned the car for less than a year and appear to be either highly ignorant, are trying to make a quick Buck, and or cant seem to write proper sentences! Not one person has been able to get past text 2 where after saying hello, I ask for the list of things I need to have answered such as: How long have you owned the car, (if you did) where/when did you have the IMS done, did you do the clutch and RMS while you were in there?, what kit did you use to replace the IMS, what type of oil usage/loss are you seeing, blah blah blah blah blah. Any person worth their salt should be easily able to answer these questions, CLEARLY, and if they can't, I am taking my money elsewhere. Yikes Also I have a terrible story of the 996 I decided to go see in person. I looked online and there was one for sale at this used car dealership for $22,000 with an automatic transmission and like 40,000 miles. The guy was extremely hostile towards me and my father and at one point brandished the gun on his waist to let us know that he's not playing around or whatever. Pathetic. Don't go judging us. My father had to tell me to just sit in the car and experience the vehicle and roll up the window while he deals with Mr jack A. Only after my father told him "hey, IDK who you think we are but my son here is nothing like you think he is, and is in the market for one of these cars. You're being mad disrespectful towards him (us)". Only once he said this and I hopped out did he even offer to shake our hands... We left. Honestly, you could have the nicest car in the world but if you are disrespectful, I am leaving. Every owner I have encountered is acting like this porsche is not a 22k car but a 220k lambo. After reasearch, I have settled on instead of trying to get a steal on a 996 for close to $20,000, I have simply realized that it is much more intelligent to spend around 30,000 and get exactly what I want and mitigate many issues that could be much much more expensive than 30k. I am also looking for a daily driver as my favorite car ever to drive was my Karmann Ghia... Something about the engine being in the rear and the two plus two with the hard top and the Beautiful lines and the way it handles and... I just love it. The problem with it is I can't afford (more like I refuse to allow it to happen) her to get wrecked and more importantly for me to get hurt from its lack of airbags. That 60 horsepower is also not very good for modern traffic. I have ridden shotgun in several boxers and some cars with similar horsepower to the 996, such as 400 horsepower American car which would have the same power the weight ratio as a 300 horsepower Porsche and I really like that area of power and don't need anymore. I am seriously getting fed up and just need some proper discourse about these cars. To clarify further, I am in the market for a 996... not my first Porsche but my first 911 (pretty normal). I have researched them every day before and after work for the last two months and feel I have a good grasp on this car. I gravitated towards it after parking next to one the other day by chance. What really struck me was the SIZE (smole) and the OLD SCHOOL VIBE! I feel in love tbh. About 4 months ago is when I got the 996 bug. I dismissed it until I saw the prices they ran for. I was in the market for a miata... meh. I am a big simulator driver and also an even bigger mechanic. I have owned cars like so: old vw's (ghias, bugs, busses), porsche 914s, old toyotas, bmws (2002s, e21's, e36s), mazdas (mid 2000s), and more, but I am in my mid 20s and a recent college graduate. I am confident in my wrenching abilities and have purposly looked into the worse this car can throw at me. I am scared, but fear is good as it tells you what to and or not to deal with... So here is my current thoughts and I want to know what you owners think. I have heard on the internet that these cars make excellent daily drivers and I've also heard that the owner retention of Porsche 911 owners is extremely high! I plan to drive this thing for a seriously long while. To me it's just a bonus that it's 25 years old if I get a 99 (as it will be "classic" and I can insure it as so tehe) I'm very excited but my excitement is waning as this is become extremely tedious and not one person has been kind to me along my way. Really I just need to know if there's any groups or places that I'm not looking where I can find a car within 250 Mi of Oklahoma. Honestly I just need to test drive the thing! I need to see what I'm getting into! I'm willing to find a nice example wherever it may be in the country, and have it taken for a PPI and then if it passes the PPI to have it shipped to Oklahoma, I better know I like the vehicle for real before I do any of this and it's incredibly difficult right now on me to get this. I think I need to talk to some people or go to some car meets or something? But most people see my appearance and become scared on Instinct. Even though I am an electrical computer engineer by day, yes they just can't get over the fact that I'm a 24 year old male with long hair. It's kind of sad, but not surprised at all either. I'm really struggling as I'm sure you guys can tell and just need someone to guide me if at all. To whoever's read this far I appreciate you! I know the guys on the forms are the real ones. I remember being like 14 years old trying to build my Karmann Ghia on thesamba.com (my username was (is) Bloku_ there as well) those guys were always great. From what I read looking through the Porsche forms here on rennlist, very similar Thank you so much!!!

All i can say is it sounds like u like in an f'ed area of our country. Your asks r not unreasonable so stick by your "guns". What your asking is important and will help u get a good car. Its tricky owning a 996 as a dd because it requires maintenance amd thats not cheap. If u were on the east coast i would let u drive a gt3 motor 996 and spoil u. Hopefully some one closer can help u out.

OP - Sorry so many folks are being prigs, prats and bollocks thumpers. There’s a pretty cool dude in OKC you may want to touch base with. He knows a lot of Porsche folks and might be able to get you headed in a correct direction for your search: Brandon Clark Slakker Racing Development www.sr.dev Certified Cylinder Head Machinist - AERA Certified Hartech Machining and Engine Rebuilding - Hartech UK Certified High Performance Tuner - EFI Univ Be sure to check out our FB page and our Porsche Engine Nerds group.

You are looking for an enthusiast seller, most Porsche people (yes even 996 owners) don�t know about IMS bearings, and which one is in the car�.. you need to search out the enthusiasts. Check out the PCA website for cars for sale. Without membership, you can�t read the whole ad, but if you ask nicely, someone here can help get you the full ad�.. I also recommend you check out the event page on the local PCA region, see when they have social type meetings (cars and coffees, breakfast meet ups that end with checking out and talking cars�.) I see there is at least one PCA region covering Oklahoma�. https://cimarronregionpca.org/upcoming-events At a minimum if you show up and show interest to people about their cars, you may be able to get a ride in a 996, possibly an offer to drive one�.. Just a thought. -Eric 04 996 based in AZ, working in CA (not so close to Oklahoma)

Bummer. Sorry to hear about your experiences. I've been in a similar boat, trying to find a 911 someone will let me drive since January without much luck until recently. I'm about 10 years older than you, but probably look your age (also with long hair). All I can say is take your time and find the right one. My patience (and persistence) seems to be paying off now - I connected through a friend of a friend with a person selling his 996 through word of mouth and will likely get a test drive out of that and also connected with a dealer who's set up a test drive for Saturday. One thing that I think could be a barrier other than your age/appearance is if you come on too strong by asking too many questions, that can be a turnoff. Also I've found a lot of owners don't respond well to messages/emails; a call can really make a difference if you can come across as mature and genuine. As other folks have recommended, I think it might help if you try to meet the local Porsche community or even just the car enthusiast community in general. They might know someone selling or just another owner who's willing to let you take a 911 for a spin. Good luck!

@Eric Kessler, Great advice.

Enthusiast sites (like this) are a great suggestion and stay away from dealers. You’ll find someone and your questions are honestly very reasonable and I would ask the same. Heck if you can make it to College Station, you can drive mine.

Don't let the search get you down, it's part of the journey! You sound like a car guy so there's no way you wouldn't enjoy a manual 996. They really are incredible cars and the existence of this forum and it's thousands of members is proof. I purchased my 996.2 after finding it online many states away, it had 45k miles and no service records. But I found a porsche indy in the area to perform a PPI with bore scope, and his assessment gave me the confidence to buy it and have it trailered to me. The car makes me grin every time I see it, smile and laugh every time I drive it. I know there will be expenses down the road so I plan and budget for them, and will do whatever I can myself to save money. In conclusion, search thoroughly and ask the seller/dealer all the questions, obtain service records, get a good understanding of what the car had done and will require, PPI by an experienced mechanic that will reveal issues and hopefully give you the confidence to make the purchase.

I totally understand your thoughts, been there, so here is what I would do in this case, if I would see a car away from my area: 1. Ask the seller to send you the VIN code pics from the 2-3 places in which it is written. Verify with my local Porsche dealer on the car specs. 2. Ask the seller to send you pictures of all windows, especially on the markers. From the window markers you can check whether the car had a major accident and the glass was changed. A changed front windscreen does not necessarily mean the car had an accident. Probably a chip from a car in front. But a change of the rear window or side windows, 99,9% of the cases it relates to an accident. If those two tests pass, then: 3. Hire a professional on the area, to go check the car. In my country you can find professionals online, they perform a number of tests, including testing the coolant for exhaust fumes, checking the car underneath, checking the oil quality for coolant, etc. They need to be able to scan the car for errors, best case to have PST/PIWIS, otherwise, for 996 (which is a simple car in terms of electronics) you can go away with a simple OBD2 scan. They need to verify that the codes have not been deleted prior to the check by the seller (this is easily understood from the readiness). 4. If you want to be more thorough about it, pay an oil analysis for the car, kindly asking the seller to send the specimen. If all is good, fly to the place with the money in the pocket, drive the car, and if you like it buy it. You are flying there to buy it, not to test drive it. PS: my personal opinion (with the risk of being kicked-banned from the forum) is that a tiptronic 996 would have received less abuse from previous owners (over-revved, tracked, etc). So when I was at the quest for the 996, I skipped all manuals. The gearbox is slow, but it still gives you that Porsche feel.

I got mine from Carsandbids.com and shipped from Canada but I highly recommend avoiding going out of country 😅 I had an overall good experience.

Quotes source posts: 19441034, 19441034

This is what is a bit confusing in your story. While I applaud your level of research and due diligence, showing up with you father to look at a car that you don't want is just a waste of time for both parties. No wonder the dealership's salesman showed his gun. Maybe he quickly realized that you really didn't want an automatic Porsche and got tired of the condescending interrogation of a car that he has no chance of selling? You're the same age as my daughter. You Gen Zs are so overly apprehensive about everything. The best advice I can give YOU in the words of my Gen Z children .... CHILL BRUH!!! Set a budget and be patient until you find the right car. I'm on my forth Porsche and every seller was more than happy to let me test drive the car and have it inspected. Remember, (when you're talking with the seller) you can catch MORE flies with honey than you can vinegar! If you're contacting them via Facebook direct messaging, DON'T write a NOVEL like you did in the original post of this thread. If you need to answers to more than a few questions, ask to talk on the phone and act appreciative instead of contentious and apprehensive. Based on my experience, most people that inquire about a Porsche on Facebook or Craigslist won't follow through on a purchase. Mostly tire kickers. That's why I sold my last 911 on Bring A Trailer.

Well If you are to find one in Houston I would be willing help by taking a peek and giving you an honest opinion. Just reach out.

Ditch the dad, roll up in a rented baller pickup or SUV, and tell them it's for your girlfriend.

Quotes source post: 19441034

They can be excellent daily drivers, but be prepared to pay for the price for daily driiving with your wallet to make the car a daily driver. You can save some money if you can do the work yourself. I was in the same boat as you but it took me way longer to get into a 996, now that I have mine, I am kicking myself why I didnt do it sooner. You have to decide which model you want you want 996.1 (Gen1) or 996.2 (Gen 2) Research engine, varioccam, glovebox and headlights. You have a choice of coupe, cab and targa. Ive been daily driving my 04 Targa for the past 6 months and within those months the coolant tank which are known to break since they are plastic, did tthat to me 2 weeks ago, while at the shop the Indy told me my fuel pump and sender had to be changed as well. These things are going to happen and are part of the daily driving routine. So far around $2,836 on oil change and the repairs above. I didnt expect the fuel pump and sender to be changed out, so you will have to account for any what ifs, on top parts that should be replaced for piece of mind daily driiving. I would research long and hard on rennlist for both Gen 1 and Gen 2 models and what owners have faced with issues and asked other members for advice, I would also recommend that if you daily drive the 996 to have a back up vehicle for those times it will be in the shop.

Join the PCA and make some friends, attend some events and network. It is a great community once you get to know folks. I would avoid dealers and other types you mentioned and spend time on the forums online and PCA on person and you will find the right one or more like it will find you. I am fairly impatient but some things are best not rushed if you plan on catching the disease we all have here .

Wow, sounds like in your area, you may not want to consider a Porsche. Sounds like there is very little inventory. I am in Canada (Toronto), even here, there are quite limited service options that I struggle with when I need something addressed on the car. Not lack of skill, but just have to wait. Especially, if you plan on daily driving a 25 year old car, it is going to break and need repair. Have you found a service facility local to you that would also be aware of cars that may be for sale?

Being young & male can be tough when buying a car like this. Stay away from FB marketplace & eBay. Be careful on Craigslist too. I see a lot of flippers, scammers and lowlifes on those platforms. I did use Craigslist in my search 4 years ago but I'd stay away from ads that look quickly put together or they don't seem to know much. I found several on Auto Trader and CarGurus. I don't like dealers. They're generally better at screwing you over than an average joe will be, they won't know or care anything about the car's history and you'll pay more with no real guarantees when buying an older car. Some boutique dealers are an exception but you're probably not looking in their price range. Like others have mentioned, look in the enthusiast sites: Here on RL, pcarmart and the PCA website. Get their test drive membership. I wish I'd paid more attention to those sites when I was looking. I also second the suggestion about phone calls. I'm a Gen-X techie but have more of a Gen-Z attitude when it comes to phone calls. But it's still a good idea to talk to the seller in real time if you're going to invest any time in the car.

Here is one for you. https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...747402169.html

I rolled the dice and bought site unseen on BAT. It was probably not the wisest move, but seems to have worked out okay. I went for a high mile car, and an 'early' build, specifically to gamble on big issues being dealt with already. No PPI (did a PostPI), seller was a dealer/flip. I paid too much to ship it 3,000 miles. I paid the annoying BAT 5% fee, plus the BAT "fee" (everything is more expensive). The car was 95% as shown. I knew I could only do this if I did the maintenance work myself, within reason. I have so far saved a ton by rolling up sleeves and getting a LOT of help from fellow rennlist members. I'll probably never recoup my purchase price plus BAT/shipping. But the car brings me joy every time I get in it. So I keep knocking wood that it'll last me a long long time. And I never test drove a 911 prior. I had never even been in a 911 prior. But I knew it was what I wanted (and especially the 996, i've been lurking on this site for almost a decade). So looong story short, just keep at it. There are some stupid deals lately on BAT (stupid as in dirt cheap). Maybe it's worth the gamble... If this wasn't black - i would almost consider it as a second car - i'd love to get a coupe and mod it up (my cab i'm keeping mostly stock). https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...rera-coupe-71/

I agree with "stay away from dealers" in general, but I found my beauty at a local garage that does consignment for specialty vehicles. So, they're out there, if you find a reputable one they're worth looking at.

@Bloku_ if you ever get to the Chicago area, pm me. You can drive my 996.2 Get involved with your local PCA region. Go to a few events. thats were opportunities become known. I wouldn't shy away from any car sitting at a dealership. Just make sure you do a thorough PPI on the car. Patience, an opportunity will materialize.

I know you'd prefer to find something near your home, but perhaps this example may broaden the potential a bit. Here is a craigslist search on Porsche 911, from 1998 to 2005 based in San Diego. The search function includes "nearby areas", meaning southern LA and Orange County. There are 60 results, which seems crazy, perhaps you could plan a short trip to inspect a few of them. There will also be a several qualified Indy shops nearby for a PPI. If you can broaden even more into the 997 range, these days the lowest priced 997s can be equivalent to 996s. https://sandiego.craigslist.org/sear...=1~gallery~0~0

Ugh, this took from 5pm to 7:25pm to write! My hands hurt!! Thanks everyone! :') De Jeeper, I will stick to my guns, always! not sticking to my guns is how you messup. Also, I expect this to be maintenence heavey but as both a driver and a mechanic along with decent cash I think I can handle it.... I very much so love driving, in traffic, high speed, slow speed. Heck I drive home then hop on the simulator If not, I just wrench on the 2002 or drop by dad's back yard shop. ------------------------------------------ hatchetf15, I will be sure to msg Brandon Clark in OKC! This is the route my father suggested to me. ------------------------------------------ Eric Kessel, YES! You hit the nail on the head... Thats exactly what I am looking for, "AN ENTHUIAST SELLER". I put out the word to a friend in tulsa (eric at bughaus) and for a guy I know thru the bmw2002faq forums in DFW area... No bites (but I gotta do the work). I also tried making a PCA account but it was asking for $$ and I am not too sure it will be super helpful? I will def give it a second look though. OHHH and thx for the link to the cimarron club! perfect Maybe ill meet some of you guys there?? Its been a long time from my last "car meet" of any sort (I was in HS tbh... dang... like 2017). Thank you sir ------------------------------------------ Connect_yvr, ah a fellow loc'er! These cars cater to a pretty ecletic crowd (25+ y/o porsche guys lol). Best luck to you on that sale thru word of mouth! I have always seen you get the best cars (and deals) thru Word of mouth. Really, I just want someone who likes the car, I dont want an abused "25 year old 911", I want a nice, loved, well taken care of porsche... theres a difference!!! And very true about that connect. I tried to keep the first questions to simply: how long have you owned it, did you ever do the IMS and or RMS, and why are you selling. Phone calls are the way though and I should def be doing that. Gen Z tendancies not to use a phone as a... phone. *faceplam*. But just like Eric (above) said, I will be checking out the cimmaron may 21st thing! I will try n pull up in a (non porsche) fun vintage car too! ------------------------------------------ igrip, you are too kind :") It warms my heart seeing these nice replies! I will just keep checking in after work until I find it. I'll probe on the classic site like FB and CL, but if the owner gives me any sauce, I shall keep going. A guy in the oil section at work and I spoke and he gave me sound advice on this 996 hunt (hes an older bmw guy) "Remove your passion from the serach, that way sellers dont use it against you and also so you dont make bad decisions!" ------------------------------------------ 03pcoupe, Haha! typing this block of text I had a moment where I thought "dang, so this is how (hard) it is getting a 996?... hard yes, but exciting! I love this stuff!! What could be more fun, saving, working, looking, talking, failing, and then winning! Thats the good life right there gents". But yes, absloutly must be manual. Ive gotta feel that floor hinge w/ the heel toe yummm. IMPORTANT!!! Should I only ever trust a PPI to be done by a Porsche Dealership and nothing else? One dude on FB offered to have the PPI done at a local shop for $115.... I was like, hell no bro. I will only accept the oil pan removed and spark plug removed bore scope level PPI. IDC if it is 800 dollars, Its worth it. I need NO or very very very little bore score (enough that its livable) and I can drive it for like another 30k miles/7 years+ before I need the engine. I plan to honestly (if I love it as much as I think I do) get another m96 engine and build it out to a 4.0 and get a nice trans too and put them in the corner of the shop until the day (if ever) comes (engine failure). But yessir, I like the way you did your purchase '03! I think thats the way to go. I see why people say stay away, but I am 100% of that ilk. I just took out my transmission and put it back in my 2002 the other day because the fricken ring gear was slipping on the fly wheel due to the starter! I was a bit mad but was happy to do it to get her working again. I am true car nutjob. Thank you for the advice ------------------------------------------ isalos, ok, I have this little list saved down! I am trying to serach in towns where I have family or friends who could test drive the car... Very sound advice on esp 1 and 2. I am a bit confused on number three though. When you say professional, do you mean the PPI or do you mean a third party? Sorry if the answer is obvious... answering these post got me crosseyed! hahaha. I like the idea of the oil analysis but I am also fearful of an oil swapout (lol i imagine it like the sellers getting drug tested and tries to use fake **** hahaha). I think the oil analysis should have some typical "weights" of metals in the oil that are m96 specific? Like the oil analysis of a m96 prob has WAYY different metals than an LS3 engine (also, plz correct me if I am wrong). hummm... isalso, you are banned, reason, advocation for an automatic transmission :P . Lol jk but I feel you... I am just wayy to much of a manual freak. I love love motorsport and the heel toe and clutch kicks and all that jazz are what bring me the most joy while driving... I just feel empty without it. I would love to find a grandma owned 911 996 manual in artic silver with a black interior but who am I kidding! lol ------------------------------------------ Carlo D, I have concidered auction sites (like BAT) but really am not sure... I am going to stick to "my guns", but who knows... If I cant find what I am looking for, then ------------------------------------------ ZuffenZeus, you are very correct on your faceplam, but honestly, if I could have just walked up and said to mr used dealer "Hey dude, just let me look at the nicest, most expensive car on your lot, inside and out, and leave me alone bc I just wana see if I even want one and wont bother buying yours" would not work well (I wish it would), I would have. If its on their lot, I have got to respect their ownership of the car to deal with them. I really did this so I could even see one... I have never been near one but that one 1/2 a year ago (and now that auto one). This was also my fathers idea as I had no interest in even going! I think I got what I needed out of the visit in hindsight. He simply thought it wise for me to see it and see if I even fit (physically and mentally) the car and to kinda quell my antsy-ness. Lol, yes! I need that chill... I will keep looking for the right car and musn't get unchilled. I talk with the old guy in the petrolium engineering section of work whos also a big BMW guy and he gave me the following advice: "Do not get passionate or emotional when trying to buy or sell as it will skew your judgment". I like that! Also about the apprehensive gen Z statement. Very true. I try to stay 1/2 glass full but having never been in a world without internet (and therefore a crisp view of all the worlds Bull Sh*t) really wears on you. I have never had social media so I feel that helps with my generation's "sickness" lol. And yea, I would like to go back and edit my og post but really I would indeed talk to them in a chill way and let them know exactly what I am looking for, then I would hit them with the 3 most major things: How long have you owned, why sell it, did you do the IMS. I try to throw a bit of honey at them . But no wonder you sold your 911 on BAT! Everyone on FB can't be bothered tbh. Also, you crosssed out "spend around 30,000", you just mean to say that I should look for what I want and figure out the $$ later type deal? Thats the same advice ol dad gave me... I like it. I kinda got on rennlist to hear it from another source (classic, right?). ------------------------------------------ Viper1000, Oh absloutly! I will def hit you up if I find one there... I have expanded my search to roughly 500-700 miles from Tulsa Ok tbh. Any further is a bit silly imho but I am sure I am missing out on some nice examples so honestly, IDK!? ------------------------------------------ 911Dreamer, I want that 996 daily driver. NO OTHER CAR interest me... I have been looking. Legit, nothing. I never expected to want a 911 bad like this but dang oh do i want this. the wallet is ready (as it will ever be) and I plan on doing 95% of the wrenching myself. Thats why I want that nice example so I dont have to do crazy amounts of wrenching (or hidden additional charges $$$ due to a bad inital purchase of a lemon 996). Also, why are you kicking yourself that you did not do it sooner? I want exactly this (or as close as possible): 996.1 carrera 2 (simple is best as I will be wrenching), HARDTOP (non targa), artic silver, blk interior, rear window wiper (I love that quirky stuff), 1999 or 2000 (must be dual row style IMS), low-mid miles (lets say 50k but up to 100k but rly I just need something thats been serviced or needs to be and is a nice driver that continues to be driven... thats why I say 50k to 100k honestly) I like to think that I am ready for these fixes. I am not looking for a toyota as I have one on standby for all the times this will happen to me with this car!! haha. I am all about that peace of mind daily driving. I have heard and reasearched that the avg yearly ownership looks like 1.5k ish on a good year, and like 6k on a bad ish year, and 25k on a "you got f*cked", year. I am trying to make sure I dont deal with the later of those payments by doing my due dilligance early and getting not only what I want, but something that is proven and tested to be a solid drivetrain. I won't kid myself. I would also like to keep reasearching the 996's problems but I SICK of it. I have seen enough and am just ready to finally start looking for one in earnest. Thats kinda where I am at now, but I am still trying to learn. I have been lurking here for awhile looking at the issues you all face with your cars. Could a kind sould maybe point me towards what the most common (or uncommon) issues with these cars are? OFC i do not mean the IMS or RMS or bore score, I mean stuff like "the heater fan stopped" or the P.S. pump died, or why wont it start when hot but cranks, type issues... I have seen a lot but I think I still need to see more. I am not scared of doing the fixes though. I just need to get my grubby hands on the car! haha. I have the car every porsche owner needs, a toyota tacoma (well, a "pickup" from 1989), and a 2008 mazda van too (lol). ------------------------------------------ Scrh1, I think I will bite the bullet and pay the MASSIVE FEE of $56 I think thats the way as, like you said, I will avoid the dealers and other types. I won't buy the car if you don't know about the car as it spells "TIME BOMB". I am really ready for it to find me tho lol. where are you?! I have been at this for aobuyt 5 months now and am really just wanting the slightest glimmer! Whatever, I will keep going. Why not?! I just need to try new avenews. THIS DISEASE IS UNCURABLE! ------------------------------------------ steam_mill, yea, I am thinking its the area. I will def be fine as there are porsche dealerships and I am within like 3 hr drive of dallas ft. worth. Nothings stopping me . I will be doing 95% of my servicing though (I have shop access thankfully and other daily drivers). I am very very used to these types of cars (tho not 911 exactly). I have Daily driven cars from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. I know the burn of a breakdown well and push starting. I talk big noise too though ------------------------------------------ Ssherman68, yea... I am def going to stay away from those guys... its not good for my mental! If I see poor writing or too short, im out. IDC how nice the car may be. I have looked on both auto trader and cargurus and am unsure, so its good to hear your advice. And you say "test drive membership"? Ill have to look into that!! And of course, the phone call is the truth and the way ------------------------------------------ itusler, nnoooooo its a carrera 4! I am a hater of the c4 as it just has too much going on IMHO. I want the hardtop, c2, 996.1 as to get the most barebones car... Just my 2cents. Even the Stig said he liked the C2 more than the c4! But to be honest, that exactly the type of 996 I am looking for. Esp with that 15 year ownership is to die for! ------------------------------------------ Ben8jam, I am really being drawn in to the BAT 996 scene... but I dont want to deal with any BS at all! I refuse to have a trashed engine after paying near new car prices... just sounds sad. I like the way you think and I see the same way as you that I do not really plan to use this car as an investment. Life has nearly taken me to the grave and I need to simply live and do things that make me smile! People always ask if I will sell my karmann ghia as in the last 10 years it like 4x'ed in price. I could care less. I just drive it. I never plan on selling it so who cares how much its worth? I only just dont want to pay tooo much money (like pay 25k on a 996 and then have to get a new engine for another 25 (gotta get that 4.0 engine lol)). I just want the most basic drive, no vert or targa, no electronic throttle cables, no fancy 4 wheel drive... I love how you had never driven one but then just got it! did you like it?? I have been eying a 911 from being a little kid. Dad, tho well in 6 figures, never bought ANYTHING nice (meaning more than 7k dolalrs for a car) other than for momma. I had to go to school (college) get a trade, etc, and only now, can I finally even consider sitting my butt in a 911. Feels great though. so many years inthe making. This is why I cant mess it up by being hasty. Also this -https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-porsche-911-carrera-coupe-71/ - car has me dying! This is exactly what I am looking for... 19's are too big of wheels, 17s are almost it but too small (tho I welcome it on the bad oklahoma roads) but the 18s are just right for a car this smole! This one has me so so so infatuated! It confuses me so how a car this nice and a 911 can garner so much hate and such a low price. Their loss tbh. I hope it stays like this until I get one... or 2... or 3 ------------------------------------------ Woodman71, hummm I am going to have to look into that method of yours! ------------------------------------------ GC996, thank you sir. I am in a new job and am doing a lot (ok, like 5 - 10 percent is a lot for me) of travel and would love to head up to Chicago! I have never been. This is one of the reasons I go a trade as I need to see the world (or heck, just the USA hahah). I like the way you think as well. Sometimes a jem rolls into a dealership. Just do the PPI and take it from there. Not much too it. The problem is all the BS before then ugh ------------------------------------------ 911Syncro, very nice idea! My family actually suggested I do the same thing! My very apprehensive father though said that he would never trust driving the 996 back from a place like cali as the fees and cost and headache of getting the car that breaks down 1000's of miles from home is horrid... I can't fault him. Maybe ill just have it shipped from cali after flying in an talking to a few kind gents and picking one to throw money at?! Also take a stop by the side of my family down in cali! Or I just ask them to drive the 996s I want to check out and if they dig it (tho prob dont know what to look for.... ill just facetime them when they're there), the have a PPI done and if it checks out, ship it here. done.

Hello�I will be selling my 2001 996 soon�I live in NM�I think it�s super nice, I�ve owned it for 6.5 yrs, never any issues. Let me know if you are interested� Thanks, Brad

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I love it. I live at the base of some of the greatest canyon driving roads in the country, so every week or every other week I take a 70-80 mile round trip drive with my neighbor in his GT3. It's very cleansing. And per that 1999, go find the "what is special about the early build 1999s" thread, and you'll see what you passed up there. LSD, Sport suspension, cable-throttle, higher quality interior parts, better constructed engine block (pre-factory fire), and more. Plus it came with Hollow-Spoke wheels, which alone resale for $3-4k. I literally almost bought it, but don't want to deal with leather issues, and can't stand black cars. Neighbor and his GT3 and my buddy who just got a 2015 GTS at the top of Angeles crest last week:

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Yes, it could take some patience. I'm in Southern California where there are a lot of 996 models but it still took almost 2 years to find mine and I had to settle for a color that I wasn't crazy about but I ended with a great car. I'm currently looking for a specific model of convertible (non Porsche) and my searching has officially passed the two year mark for that too. *sigh*

I want to sell my 2002 C2 couple. It is Arctic Silver, Gray interior, 18” light weight wheels, Flat Six Innovations 3.8 Stage I engine. Body is nice. Reason for wanting to sell, I have five 996s and that is one too many. You are welcome to come see it and test drive it. 203K on chassis, 12K on engine. Mark

Took me many months to find one I liked, similar specs to what you are looking for. Wanted a 6 speed, cabrio in my case, and $20,000 budget. Found CarGurus to be a good source of locating them, many search options such as manual trans, miles, price, trim level etc.. Not able to find one close to me (live in central California) I did finally find one I thought might work in San Diego, about 400 miles away. Spoke to the dealer who sent me pics and videos, so I flew down to see/test drive it. Got a nice drive in and found some things that needed attention so said I would be willing to buy it if they fixed those. Knew I would still have to do some work on it but it was VERY inexpensive. Bought it, had it transported to my house (approx $500) and love the car. It did need a fair amount of work, but if you are handy with a wrench, and have internet access, YouTube is your friend! So far, I have done an oil and filter change, replaced the brake light switch, removed and sent out for rebuild both convertible top hydraulic cylinders, then reinstalled, bled system and now it works fine. Independent shop wanted roughly $4500 to do this, using factory parts I did all of it for less than $1000. Never had a 911 before but working on it is a great way to get to know the car... Good luck!

OP is the most thorough person I've ever encountered on a forum...and that's awesome. They totally balance out the dozens of people who post, "What car should I get?", and that's it...and never answer questions or return. These buyers need to realize that these cars are lowering in value to where they are within reach of younger enthusiasts and they should welcome the new generation. Especially if this new generation is willing to do research and get their hands dirty.

@Bloku_ , So cool that so many people on this forum have helped, and even offered their cars for sale! If you are still looking, you�ll find the people selling via PCA Mart to be incredibly generous - which has been my experience. It�s nice to see a young engineer interested in cars .. esp Porsche! Wishing you the best in your hunt!

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Sounds just like my BAT experience. The dealer was a high volume BAT Porsche NY dealer which was a plus since BAT will ban sellers who are scammers or misrepresent, and generate complaints from buyers. Anyway - I got lucky with a low mileage 2000 C2 TIP that I love. My advice is do a PPI and bring dad!

Keep in mind the 996 is going to be expensive to own and when it breaks, longer lead times to get fixed. Sometimes parts need to come from Germany. You will need a second car that will get you around while you wait for parts and repairs. Parts cost more, insurance costs more, and any 20+ year old car is going to need more service than a 5 year old Honda. That doesn't include the costs for a second car for backup. Having been through the same journey as you are proposing, you will be far better off focusing on accruing wealth first, then buy your dream car with cash from a discretionary fund that is decoupled from your living needs. You will also need a slush fund to maintain it. I'm not trying to cut you off at the knees, but give you a bit of a reality pill. It's a wonderful goal, but something that is much better enjoyed without the peril and frustration of insufficient funds. You need to factor in all of the costs for ownership. Everyone here is enthusiastic about our cars and want others to have those same positive experiences, so it's no surprise we tend to be a little biased. So, take your time (you have time on your side).

Here ya go. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...rera-coupe-72/

OP: you are really overthinking this. You don�t need 16,000-word reply posts. Read the book �Smart Brevity.� Find a bunch of 996s you�d considering buying in a major city that�s easy and low-cost flying distance from you, Call those places, tell them you are in the market, want to look at the car, want to test drive it if it checks out visually, and then rinse and repeat 2-4 996s in that area. Once you drive a few, you�ll know which one you want. You can buy that day or come back later. I know everyone talks about PPIs and bore scopes as a requirement for ownership, but the simple fact is, it�s expensive and painful for a seller to do, and many will not want to do it. If that�s a hard requirement, you�ll have to be a lot more patient and flexible on your timeline.

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As a general rule, the buyer is expected to pay the costs of any PPI. As another general rule, never gamble more than you can afford to lose.

My experience is that if you can get a ride in a car, you're going to get a similar enough experience to driving it. Provided the car is well maintained, I don't think you're going to dislike the car, given the price you're paying ($30k). Getting someone to let you drive it having just met is going to be challenging. But finding someone in your local PCA region to let you ride in it for 20 minutes is going to be easier. If you like the way it sounds, accelerates and brakes, you're probably going to be safe. You can get a lot of feel for a car from the passenger seat even.

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Consider following auctions at Bring a Trailer and Cars and Bids. The comments and questions are typically very informative especially on BaT. Then you learn what to look for and about prices as well. Also on BaT many questions get asked of the seller regarding the car itself and it's hard to hide defects from that crowd

Here is a nice one in Utah, only 23 hours left on auction, LN IMS bearing and new clutch already installed. Current bid $17,500 so will definitely go higher but probably less than 30K. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/Kme...-carrera-coupe

If I was selling mine and wanted top dollar, I would have the oil tests and complete service history ready to go. Not to mention have all the borescope pictures. In addition, I would provide an introduction to my indy and pave the way for an in depth conversation and PPI. However, if I didn't have oil tests, service records, had no clue as to my bore condition and didn't have an indy that took care of it, I would do like most of the sellers, which is nothing. Point is that you know when it's a quality car by the actions of the seller. It's human nature.

A lower budget should NOT be the deciding factor when buying a 996. This will burn you real quick. I buy the best example I can find for the exact car I'm looking for. It pays off immediately in more ways than one.

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I completely agree. There are no $20K 996s except for the ones that need another $20K of repairs/deferred maintenance. I understand your desire to have one of these, but echo what has been said here, that for your first one of these you should focus on detailed service record and no more than three previous owners. When I did my search, I focused soley on single owner, low mileage and with detailed service records from day one and cared for by Porsche dealer. Took me two years, but bought it sight unseen. Have been V happy with car. Yes, about $15K deferred maintenance and IMS bearing, but I spread it out over three years so it was totally doable. I know years waiting is an eternity for many, but there is a bunch of poorly cared for 996 out there. You don't want one of those, no matter the price.

Bloku- I have only owned 6 Porsches (3 914s, 3 911s) over the last 40 years. To get this last one, I first searched, and paid for 2 failed PPIs at $500 a piece… both cars (944turboS cars) were completely misrepresented by the sellers. So, while I lost $1000.00 in the search, it kept the garage space open until I found the RIGHT car. It flew through its’ PPI by a well known So Cal shop, and the car has been wonderful. My first Porsche (‘76 914 2.0) blew up the FIRST day I brought it home- so I know that pain too… it was 40 years ago, but it taught me the value of paying for knowledge I didn’t have to inform my buying decision. All Porsches have issues- the factory likes their owner to beta test (ha!) to find the problems. 996 cars have a great support network, and there are lots of great answers to the issues. Good luck, but strongly consider a PPI.

Hello again! I am sorry for the massive delay, a whole lot happened and I had to put the hunt on pause but we are back at it! ============================== Ben8jam - Oh yess! That is what I want. When I was madly in love with the ol' ghia I have, I would take her for hour drives late at night before calling it a day and heading to sleep, that or those pre-church drives when no one was out. I still do it but I just find myself criticizing the ghia too much... I even thought of selling her for the payment of this 996, but I realized that its not worth it (money and emotional). Everyone says OMG do NOT sell the ghia!? What are you doing lol! So I will refrain But yea, I will be taking a look at the "what makes a 1999 porsche 966 special" fourm you spoke of... I am sure I will get some good info from there to back my cause (and will to keep up the hunt!). ------- SoCal911t - I am in much agreement with the amount of time you spent to look for the car. The worst that could happen for me is that I simply get more money in the 911 savings account I have running now . I have been laying low. I keep seeing good ones pop up but I have decided that I will simply wait for one to show up in a nearby area and try to buy it (and therefor test drive it). If I get sick of looking local, and find some good ones in far away places (more than likely in cali) then I will deal with that then, but for now, slow and steady. From what I can tell, the 996 market has plateaued and is actually on an ever so slight decrease in prices... They hype of "hey, these are not trash" has died down and only the truth remains, its a nice porsche, but they are not a 993 or a 997, they are 996's and they are priced as such. I am sure 10 years from now they will be worth more, but I DO NOT expect that they will be worth a crazy 50k for a basic carrera with 90k miles lol ------- 168Sierra - PM (finally) sent! ------- california996C4 - yea, I am like 4ish months in the search now. Just my breif hiatius from posting here (last post until now) I have seen ZERO new 996s for sale in my 500mile radius... Yikes. CarGurus is been my go to... I am looking on PCA, here (rennlist) and facebook with a bit of craigslist. I am taking the advice of you ladies and gents but I must also know not to do stupid moves. One thing I keep tripping on is if they sell it out from under me. I KNOW I want a PPI done, only if I am interested in the car, but I am fearful it will sell. I am not sure how hasty I should be on getting it done. When it comes to that, I will simply make a post titled good porsche 996 PPI specialist for xyz area (say um Houston texas). I am sure there is a fourm like that already. I will see... But yea! I am very in love with these cars for that fact that I can see myself doing all the work DIY. I might have a shop do annoying/obvious things like installing the IMS as the last time I put in a transmission, I nearly got a hernia trying to get the splines on. I REALLY REALLY REALLY do not like the feeling of those splines hanging on the tranmission and trying to get the angle right... I might just leave that stuff to the pros when its needed? IDK, I could do the hard (annoying) part of getting all the little bits removed and everything up until the final bolts done, trailer it to the shop, have them remove the engine and trans using their lift and special jacks, and then have them do the work. I am sure it will still be far more expensive than DIY, but I am fine with that as I need (want) this to be my daily and the last thing I need is a stupid, bent, transmission input shaft! Thats fine on an old bmw 2002 that I do not care about, but not my fun transport 10 miles to work and back . IDK, just an idea! Has anyone done it like I just said??? LMK. I cant wait to get to know these cars! I love it! ------ cqhall - hahaha! Youre too kind. I proved you wrong as I have been "missing" for like two weeks now, lol! I hate to be that guy (hence why I am still trying to reply lol). I've done that when I was like 16 on the miata forums and got flammed!!! I am too serious though now and like playing with the big boys. Thanks for the kind words about us youngsters! I will never forget being a kid and seeing my first 911 pass me. It was early 2000's and seeing that rear wing go up! I was done for! I remember my dad explained what a "wing" was and why that car has one and that that car is a porsche. I always geeked out about things like that (rubix cubes, collapsible cups, tiny umbrellas, unicycles, quirky stuffs). I am an oddity but I really think that this car is it. I have spent countless hours alone or sitting with my dad in the shop looking at every last damn car ever fricken made! We do not like any of the new cars and the newest car we like is a miata... I can just get a 996 and do my own wrenching for the same price so I am thinking that thats the key! I am so excited. I have a lot of mechanics hours under my belt and electronics do not (yes they do still) scare me as I can deal with them as that what I love and kinda do for a living . Thanks for the inspo to keep it up ------ dave_987 - Oh yea! I had to write so much as I was NOT expecting such a amount of people to reply! I really like this group and had always thought that I would never be the part of them as "I'll never spend more than 5k on a car" but damn, I really do want to spend a chunk o money on one of these! Nothing would quite make more more excited in my life than that right now haha. I am really biding my time to see a car listed on PCA to be somewhere near by... Co, Tx, Arkansas, Ks, and ofc Oklahoma! I think texas is my best be though. Kansas is having some nice examples though. I have to bite the bullet and get a PCA member license as I swear sorting by distance from my zip is NOT working for whatever reason. PCA guys are cool and kinda have a sort of "bro code but for porsches" going on. I feel they are the true dudes. When I get my 996, I am doing the following "mods": front and rear dash cams, manual transmission preservation society, and a PCA sticker! I might be a dick and get the rear window programmable LED sign where you can type stuff in it an ppl can see it (just dont forget its on and pull into the ghetto hahahhahah). Thanks dave! ------ bmchan - see, the people who say dont bring dad, I dont understand! Dad's my dude, my main man! He's the one who got me this far and is just as excited as I am. I have always prayed that I could one day just buy him a 911, but he says no. I think now, after all the research and talkin we have done, if I get this 996 and it turns out well, I might just have to hunt a 996 down for him too . Even my brother is dying to get one too. We just all caught the porsche flu!!! AHHHHH But in seriousness, below, I have some general new questions about the 996s. I (think) that I know that one of the best ways to know what level of car you are getting is the startups, I have seen the COLD startup vids on BaT and they have me thinking. I have heard that many of these 996s (m96 engines) will have rough startups when they are not in tip top shape. One of the 996s that sold recently (see the blk 996 cold start yotube video and BaT ad) was one where I was really thinking of getting it. The sound of the engine on the cold startup turned me off though. It sounded rough. No smoke, just bad sound. I have heard all sorts of explanations on why they do, and that its "normal" to an extent, but thats another area I need to educate myself on. There was this golden metallic 996 that JUST sold (see gold link) and it was very very very nice. It had a good sounding cold start. IDK if this a good measure, but if I get one, I know I will be cold starting it every day and I do NOT want it to have a problem (whatever that sound is) on startup when I just got that car. I want to start with a nice example so if the sound develops, I will simply track it, and eventually get to working on it. Honestly, I am really thinking the 996 might be a forever car for me as it really does seem perfect. I am just kinda like that. I love it all and had never even known the headlights/styling was an issue. Then one day, I found myself hating them too!? I did not know why, I just kinda was like "yea, IDK WTF I am talking about but yea its ugly (had not seen one in person for the last 10 years). Then, one day I saw one on some custom racing wheels, speed yellow, a bit ratty, but someone cared and really like it. It was the size of my e36, maybe smaller, and a WHOLE LOT MORE PRETTY! I was floored!!! I was in love at first sight, then I looked it up online thinking it was like a 70k dollar car but BAM! I learned that these cars were cheaper because of headlights (and the IMS). I was scared at first, but then I realized that It might be a blessing as I had wrote off ever getting a 911 until I was a father (with adult kids after college). This is in the paygrade as I was looking at getting a brand new miata, but was like nawwww. I was looking at one for like 38k but again, nawww! At the end of the day, it seems these cars are just as "unreliable" as all the other porsches? They just have their own set of problems (please correct me if I am wrong though). I will see... ------ Marv - absolutely noted. I would be foolish to not have a backup. I have my 1989 toyota (aka a tank), the 1994 bmw (surprisingly reliable), as easy daily cars. I have been DD'ing the 94 bmw for 2 years now and I drove the 1989 toyota throughout college. I did many many many 100 mile + trips in her, and shes not in "good condition" by any means. I also have a 2008 mazda but I am not much of a fan. As you can see, many junkers. I have an old 914, a ghia, dad has 2x bmw 2002's, and even an old 86 4 runner but I am thinking we should just sell them all and upgrade to actually nice/fun cars (aka porsche 911s haha!). I have checked the insurance too and some of the rates seem too good to be true. I have been quoted from $75 (no way) up to $180 (not bad I guess as I have never crashed or had an accident), but I expected it to be more like $250 as I need all the coverage I can get. If I crash, I NEED A NEW 996 ASAP hahahha). And the parts situation is cool with me too. I have a long time friend, eric at the bughaus in tulsa who can get these parts as he runs the only air cooled vw shop in the state (he sells parts) and he has many many connects. He also mentioned that the 996 uses a lot of VW parts and to always see if there is a vw part that is the same as the porsche part but for 1/2 the price. I am sure I will run into so situations that are a bit much for me, but thats part of the fun, right?! Until we are not having fun... I will deal with that when it happens thought TBH. Thank god, I have quite the family and we are very tight knit. The issue of the funds is always real as even if you have it, you might be asking "ummm, I could have spent that on XYZ or whatever" but I really feel that I am willing to shell out for this. I am not sure though. Ofc dad, brother, and I have spoken about this (much needed) reality check, but as we approach it, we think of it like the other investments ------ F. Thumb - I was really looking at that one and was really all over it, but then I was like (as said above) kinda turned off by the engine startup. I do not really dig the way it sounded on startup but I have heard that this is kinda normal? I have heard others (see the gold 996) that is "normal" as in no bad sounds on startup? I, again, do not want a car that sounds like that on startup but IDK if its even a problem perse? ------ Mike Murphy - Yea, I absolutely am! I have a week of vacation that I have saved up and I am thinking of using it for that exact reason (find a city like LA or SF (both cali) and fly out there for the week as to buy one. I was hoping to get one in such a condition that I could actually drive it back to Oklahoma, but I think it might be wiser to simply have it shipped home as being stranded in my freshly purchased 996 sounds like a special type of nightmare. Also, about the PPI and people being patient or not. That has been a point of hesitation on my behalf and I was really thinking to find one in my area for that exact reason (easy access) and also I know good a good porsche shop here that can do the PPI and I will trust them doing said PPI. I have chilled out on making sure I get the car ASAP, but I, due to wanting to make the car my DD, MUST have the bore and sump scope check done for the simple peace of mind. Noted for sure! Like Mike replied, I don't plan to gamble more than I can lose (I suck at gambling and I hate the idea of losing on such an (otherwise) fun experience). I dont want my 996 experience to suck ------ Bxstr - I am in total agreement. I have NEVER SEEN ONE BAD REVIEW of anyone on youtube driving a 996 and saying they dont like the way it drives.... there's just no way! I am tracking the PCA guys and looking for a car in my area but there are like 50 wanted ads for every 2 for sale ads in the general 500 mile radius... yikes. There is a dealership nearby (I am in Wichita Kansas right now for a week for work) and this dealership is said to have a 2000 porsche 996 c2 rag top (I want hard top) and I am thinking of just dropping by and being up front about simply wanting to test drive it. I doubt they'd let me but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Even if I could ride pass seat, I would be hella happy. ------ california996C4 - ugh, that 996 is so dayum clean! Wow that it sold for 20k? too good to be true? - https://carsandbids.com/auctions/Kme...-carrera-coupe Honestly, I am just scared of bidding. I want the PPI for sure and I also know I want to test drive it and see it in person. I know this is limiting me but I am just too uncertain on bidding. I think this might be all fear based and not at all logic based though (again, if I am wrong, please lmk why... I would love a killer deal like that!) ------ GC996 - I am totally with you. I am the guy who would pay top dollar just for ALL of the documentation, the willing-ness of the seller to deal with me having a PPI done, and the oil samples. I just want exactly a perfect car with all the "insurace" that comes with these test. These are really still $100k cars (when new, adjusted inflation lol) and I will treat it as such, even if it is now 20k or 30k now. That does not change the fact that these are very much a "high level sports car" IMHO ------ 168glhs1986 - I like the idea of going without a budget, but if I can, I would like to find a good deal/ but mostly just a deal that I am comfortable with! I think that is the true goal here with this forum post I am making. ------ 996-CAB - Yes! This is exactly my thoughts. I would take the 30k 996 with all the service history and good owners with documents over a perfect(er) looking 996 for $20k ANYDAY! Like dad said, you are paying for the documentation and past level of care of the car. If the IMS has not been done, then said seller should drop the price by $3k or I am walking away. Just that simple. A poorly cared for 996 sounds sickening lol ------ GmundtotheWorld - Ah, a fellow 914 (lover?). Those are such fun. I like them a lot. When you had those cars fail the PPI, were you surprised that they failed (as they looked "good" but then failed the PPI, against your better judgement? or.....?). That first 914 blowing up sounds VERY PAINFUL. I do not want that. I will pay good money, just like you did, to never have that happen again. Paying for knowledge is key. All porsches, not just 996s like ppl would have you belive, have issues. They are high strung and must be cared for as such. Like change your brake fluid with dot 4 every 2 years type care level! I like the age of these cars too (I LOVE the late 90s) and with that age, comes a great network. I have some questions for you(all) below about startup and maybe about carrera 4's. My brother thinks I am silly to NOT get a c4, but I just want the simplicity, but he does have me thinking about the c4 too so more to think of. ========================================== QUESTIONS ABOUT STARTUP So, as mentioned above, I keep seeing that the cold start of these 996's are like a good indicator of the condition of the engine... Below are two cars that really caught my eye and are the level of condition/car that I am looking to purchase. The black car looks great, looks to drive great, and has all the little things I wanted, right year, etc, but the COLD startup sound has me thinking and I have heard that the cold start is a good way to tell. People speak of the oil smoke and or sounds on startup, but are they really that bad of a thing? I do not want to deal with that every day when I start it to go to work or whatever. I want a solid sound car like the gold one below... here are the links, I would love to hear what you guys think! BLACK 996 on BaT (BAD SOUND?): Listing: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...rera-coupe-72/ Video of cold start - You Tube -- GOLD 996 on BaT (GOOD SOUND): Listing: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...rera-coupe-66/ Video of cold start - Oops, I am unable to directly link it, but at the bottom, above the photo gallery, it is simply called "Cold Start Video" and the thumbnail has the seller with a IR temp gun. It sounds PERFECT when it starts and is what I am looking for Would a PPI, even if the car was taken in to the shop while hot, be able to indicate if it might have such a (bad) sound on startup? Again, what does that sound mean? I have heard its anything from bore score to lifters to the timing chain tensioner... Again, IDK and would love to know. I need to do more digging still. I am typical for my generation and am caught up in watching videos, but READING THE FORUMS is the true key to knowing these cars inside out and I have probably watched all the videos on youtube about fixing these and what not Thanks again all! (I wont take like 3x weeks to respond this time )

Cold start videos are ok, but some Sellers can pour something into the oil to make startup sound perfect, even if the engine has problems.

OP, hang in there.You'll find the right 996. The first time I drove any Porsche was the day I saw a lapis blue 996 in Champion's CPO fleet. I drove it, bought it, and have been happy ever since. The first time I drove my GT3 was when it was rolled out of the transporter that rescued it from California.

Porschedog, first person I have seen so far with both a Porsche and a bike in the signature! Mine: 2002 996 C4 Cab 2008 Yamaha Warrior 1700 2019 Black Lab - Rose

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Love that brickwork!

Thanks! It's amazing, done by a local stone mason. One of the reasons I bought the house. The curves you see going up are grape vines, also there are a few random railroad spikes to hang stockings on.

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I'm no mason but I don't see any brickwork in that pic.

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I'm 3.5 years into restoring a 150+ year old building for my residence and shop (my kitchen center island is as we speak being topped from three 3" thick 170 year old joists we pulled to make an open loft between the upper floors), and literally days away from ordering the wood burning stove. I've spent almost as much time looking at stoves as I have Porsche options. Big fan of hand craftsmanship work, so that brick jumped out at me. Beautiful!

No brick, all stone...

Can't go wrong with a Lopi stove, great quality.

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Yes. Stone mason work. I've been drinking...

Having a nice glass of Cabernet myself!

Mike Murphy - Ah, yea I figured that was the case honestly... Not surprised. So if you can not go by cold start videos as to see if the car is decent, will the PPI show all these things? Like if you pass the PPI with flying colors, it will start like a top, and if the PPI is quite bad, it will show these things in the way it sounds on a cold start? Or could you have a knackered engine and it could sound great on startup? Is that possible? I might need to make a new forum once I go and do more research on the subject of "what to expect from cold starts". ------ porschedog - Thank dog I am thinking I am getting close. Just today, as I am in Wichita for the week for work, I decided to look on FB marketplace, and theres this crystler dealership with two 996s from 2000 and 2001 there. They are both manual (or one is?) BUT they are both verts, so I am not interested, but I was by chance grabbing lunch, and after lunch, I took a wrong turn and I was like, wow, this looks like where that 996 ad was from, a chrysler dealership?! I pull in the lot and lo and behold there is the car. Some (also) young dudes who appeared to work there were getting off the clock so I talked to them. They are some hella cool dudes who are also car guys and they told me that if I give them a call, they will personally allow me to drive the 996 tomorrow!!!! I AM SO FRICKEN EXCITED!! BLESSED :'') tears. They are actually a group that has like 7 different dealerships in the area. One of the dealerships is actually a "super car dealership" so I think I am ALL SYSTEMS GO! Thats a great story of your first time driving a porsche. I swear ill laugh if this vert 996 winds up stealing my heart. I am doubtful as I really, like most 911 owners, am paying 50%+ extra (vs the boxster) simply for the beautiful lines of the car and its history. I think my dad might be all over this vert 996 and they are priced really well, low 20k's. I talked to the guys and they are connected to a local wichita super car showroom (the owner of the cadillac owns 7 different dealerships around and the guy I met said he can personally take me to any of these dealerships and take a look at the cars... I am so happy this happened to me! I will be sure to post an update if it happens. This young guy also told me how he was driving a 2010 honda until a few weeks ago and finally bought his dream car (and it was parked right there and he showed it to me too....). It was a beautiful 2018 audi rs7... dayum son! I am sure he is not making like 100k in the middle of nearly nowhere kansas, but like he said, if you can do your own work and budget like 700 a month, its a think a young single guy with good wages can do. I think 700 would be, at most, what I would pay if I decide to just do a car loan and not "pay cash" for it. I am thinking of the pros and cons of both methods. Either way, I think I am about to see what its really all about. Blessed. Thank God ------ Hey california996C4, I see you are a Cab guy, do you think the driving experience of driving a 2000 c2 cab is roughly the same as a c2 hardtop? Just a bit more weight and a bit less stiffness, but 95% the exact same car, right? Also, le dogo is uber cute. I swear I am going to get a dog one fine day, but only when I have decent land (like an acre ish) for the dog to play in! I just dont feel it right now. Normally, the animals I have had came to me on the street of just feel into my hands if you know what I mean?! ------ F. Thumb - Oh goodness I love a good home/building restoration. I am jealous that you get a 150 year old building anywhere near you. Oklahoma is like 100ish years old and most of the old building have been burned down or otherwise torn down... The area is starting to age tho and its fun to see... My brother, dad, and I restored grandmas old little house after she passed away and we now have it as my brother's home/music studio and all the boys in the family go there to play music. The house was made in 1930s and its great! Original wood floors, sanded and planed to perfection. I love it. It is perfect for some young 20's year old guys like my bro and I. We are thinking of getting into making a business for engineering contracting. Life is good. I can't believe that I am finally getting my butt into a 996 with the engine on and an open road tomorrow. I am not going to get my hopes TOO up, but I am excited. Wish me luck (ladies?) and gents.

Yes, I specifically wanted a Cab for warm summer days and it drives amazingly. I do not notice any lack of rigidity, it is literally point and shoot. As I quickly learned, you CAN slow down for corners, there is usually just no reason to do so. Also, with top down you feel so much more connected with your surroundings, it's one of the things I love about motorcycles. To each his own, if you prefer a coupe get one but I really do love the C4 Cab.

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100% same here. Different cars do cabs in different ways. The E46 M3 (comparable to the 996) adds 400 lbs of weight for the cab, compared to the coupe, but the 996 only adds 170-ish lbs. Not a bad penalty, IMO. I do feel the twist of the chassis/body, but the 996 still handles well as is fast.

To the OP: I could/would certainly pile on and suggest you avoid dealerships, Facebook, and Craigslist (generally) when you're looking for a 20+ y/o sports car. Local Porsche clubs, the national PCA list, and Rennlist will probably be your best bet for a well-sorted, enthusiast-owned 996. When I was in the market for my 996 (.2 C4S manual), I posted wanted ads and even gave a $500 bounty to the person who helped me find the right vehicle. Lots of PCA members and Rennlisters offered to help me search - and few actually wanted a bounty - but it showed I was serious and ready to buy. My ad found its way to an early owner of the car I ended up buying. "Steve" sold his 996.2 to a co-worker a decade prior, but Steve knew the friend wasn't driving the car so he made the connection for me. I ended up driving the vehicle (twice) and ended up buying the car. (And dutifully paid Steve his bounty.) That 996.2 has been my daily driver but I now rotate it with a new-to-me JDM Land Cruiser, especially when the weather is crappy. But I have had zero concerns daily driving a 996 with a manual transmission. Mine had full documentation if the IMS/RMS and almost every other service or repair from new, so I was willing to pay a premium for the car. But I have no regrets and remain in a mad love affair with my C4S. I sincerely hope for the same outcome for you. Cheers!

Wow, ok, so I GOT TO DRIVE BOTH THE 996 AND 986! They are both as amazing as I had thought they would be. 10/10. The boxster felt much more like a purpose built track machine while the 911 felt like a breath of fresh air (aka fresh space lol) as it was very very nice to lean back more and have the leg room. I am 6 foot tall btw. The 911 was in a league of its own by far! 2x notches above the boxster. I really really really enjoyed everything about it! I loved the looks, the size, the mechanics, the ergonomics... The steering was heavy on both cars in the best way. They took bumps like a purpose built sports car. Firmer than anything ive ever driven. I am shocked to think that people actually want even firmer suspension than stock! This this is wicked. Also, the clutch was heavy, the gas was heavy, the shifter was heavy (and felt old... then I remembered it's a 993 transmission, right?). It was just very very solid. Same with the boxster, but I was not a fan unless I was looking for a track car, then the 986 would be my go to rather than a 911 by far IMHO The power of the 911 was intoxicating as can be. I was on the (55mph) freeway doing 60mph and I was just cruising... Then I thought I was in overdrive.... I WAS IN 3rd GEAR!!! WHATT?!?!? I was doing 60mph at 4k rpm in 3rd gear... I was shook. I had to "prove" it had more gears by shifting to 4th. 4th felt like overdrive. 5th was like super overdrive, and 6th... wow. I see how people can get high 20s MPG in this car with gearing like that. I can also see why this car can do a buck 75 lol! I loved its power output. It's just enough. Not enough to be crazy and beating LS powered cars, but the way it felt was so damn perfect. God. Im done for boys! I NEED one of these machines! Also, Imhighlander - I will absloutly be staying away from stealerships (if I can help it). If there is a good car at a dealer and it passes the PPI, I would be foolish not to deal with it... Now if the dealership tries to rope me into some finance stuff, no thanks. I am hoping for the same as your story. I will keep that in mind So now I just have a few questions about the car (but I do not want to buy it, I just plan on learning more about what to look for when I find that hardtop c2 w/ sun roof I am looking for). This car had an odd squeak sound that I found odd... I could not pinpoint where it was coming from other than maybe from the rear? Check the link below to the video I took of the car starting up and revving. You can hear the squeak. You can also hear how AMAZING IT SOUNDED! IDK what exhaust they put, it looked stock and I stupidly forgot to look if it had the gundo hack done to it, but it was dead silent idling, but when it revved, it sounded GODLY! Wow. I was wondering why they sounded so "bad" in videos online, but IRL, it sounds smooth as silk. Even better than straight 6 cyls IMHO. Only better sound must be v10s, v12, and stuff. WOW! I MUST know if this was gundo hacked as it was the perfect sound level. I like quiet, but if it sounds like this, cruises like it has a stock exhaust, yet opens up when you floor it, I want it. Again, see the video for the little sound clip. The car sales guy (shoutout to Juiliano!) and I were shocked that it sounded so dayum good! I am also going to post the for sale link to the car so you guys can see more pictures. Other than that question about the squeak and the exhaust, I was wondering if its normal for these cars to have quite heavy steering vs "normal" cars? Both the 986 and 996 had the exact same steering heaviness and it was a bit of a question mark moment throughout the test drives. I guess my only other question is this: This 911 I drove was a 2001 with the non-facelifted version of the front end. Is it a 3.4l or a 3.6 liter? It had great power and I wonder if it was the 300hp or 320hp version (Im still unclear on that one. It had an electric throttle cable, and a single row IMS (2001 only things) but then I am pretty sure it was the 3.4 and not the 3.6? Hummm Also, btw, it had 100k miles on it and it felt so dang good for that miles... Built different. The oddest thing by FAR was the key being on the left! SO odd... like the first time driving a RHD car but different... Video (pardon my goofy commentary. I was honestly shocked how good it sounded... bruh ) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hfE...ew?usp=sharing Actual ad from their website of the car - https://www.eddyseverything.com/inve...a29981s652541/ =========================== Also, another thing thats on my mind though gents; I am thinking of selling my first car, a 1971 volkswagen karmann ghia. Here are some pics of her. She is nice, but at this point in my life, shes too flashy and slow and old and unsafe. I can never daily drive it (again) and no matter what engine I put in it, it will never be a porsche. I always wanted it to be a porsche and pretended it was by putting as many 356 style parts and upgrades as I could. Every vintage speed item I could get my hands on was installed. I got her at the young age of 14 for like $1000 and built it over the last 10 years like it was my forever car, but now I am just seeing it sit, and sit, and sit. It runs, but I only drive it to church. It is not good during the summer, its no good during the winter... Its no good in the rain, its no good on the highway... I am very conflicted. It is taking up the garage spot and its also worth far far far more than I bought it for now... I could easily pay for a good chunk of the 996 with the money from it. I am not sure I would really be happy though? What do you guys think? I am afraid I will have sold the ghia, be driving the 996, and then just be like "wow, I thought this was going to be a lot better than the ghia but its just like a normal car and I can't believe I sold my ghia :"( Whatever, here are some pics of her... I'd love to hear what some of the older members think of me doing such a move! I don't "have to sell it to get the 996", but it would be an option as to clean out and make space: orange 1971 vw karmann ghia 3/4 rear view orange 1971 vw karmann ghia interior orange 1971 vw karmann ghia side pic on parking garage white 1969 ghia next to orange 1971 vw karmann ghia, front ends parked next to eachother

Two immediate thoughts: Ping Skip @Porschetech3 and he will most likely know the squeak. It definitely shouldn't sound like that. Keep the ghia. While it will never be a 996, your 996 will never be a ghia. If you sell it, you'll regret it. Keep it for the mellow church or vintage runs.

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Yep. Part of the analog and visceral feel you get from driving the 996 and 986. Unlike the newer model Porsches and most other manufacturers is that you can feel everything thru the steering wheel. It's a great feel and experience. With newer 911, boxstet and cayman models, you dont feel anything. It's neutral. Imho it takes away from the driving experience. Changes to tires, tire pressures, suspension set up including camber will adjust the feel.

Steering is heavy because it's got a lot of caster in the front. Turning the steering wheel is actually lifting the front of the car. Gives great steering feel, though it makes the car tend to follow ruts and the crown on the road.

Nice car! squeak is probably trivial. could be pulleys, loose spark plug, engine mounts or something else exhaust related. Get an opinion w the PPI. also If it�s a 3.4 try to get the camshaft deviation with the PPI, if over 6 that�s a negotiable point. At 100k it�s likely to need variocam pads soon.

Thank you guys! I appreciate the input about the car. I really really liked the heavy feeling... Makes sense that it is indeed the caster angle. I am thinking that I should also get the highest level of PPI that I can get done (without some absurdly overkill things I have really been thinking about selling the ghia, parking it in a hidden spot and seeing what I feel about seeing the empty parking spot. I am actually feeling a bit relieved about selling it as I really really think I got all out of it that I could. I am just kinda done with the old girl. I did every mod, every fix, everything I could on her, and I think I did well. I have never really sold a long term car of mine before. I have owned several other cars over the years and sold most within like 2 years maximum so this being owned for a good 12 years is really different (yet the same). I took her (the Ghia) for a drive yesterday and it was fine, very good actually. She hates turning though and can do it well, but after these newer Porsches and stuff, I just was let down. I would keep it and my brother will hate me for selling it but like my father said: Sometimes you have to drop something in order to pick up something new because you can't receive something new if your hand is closed... (that's not the right wording but whatever. Something along those lines). I totally agree. I could easily keep it but I just keep thinking that I wish I could just shrink it down and put it on a shelf. I might just get a perfect scale model ghia and make it look exactly like this one haha! But I am also not a risk taker and I only ever drive the ghia once per month. I think all these signs point to it being time to sell it. It was the car I had in high school. I am not a professional and I have changed quite a bit. I want the subtlety and sophistication of the 911, badly. I am sure I will have regrets, but one does not get thru life without regrets. I want to start a new chapter and sell out all the old stuff.... I and my dad combined have: 1986 4runner, 1989 toyota pickup, 1982 bmw e21, 1976 5 speed built engine bmw 2002, stock 1975 bmw 2002, 1976 porsche 914, 1971 karmann ghia.... I think they all need to go, They are all just too useless and I enjoy driving them more than I enjoy looking at them. Again, what do you guys think? I think its time. Also, I will find the thread that talks about what points need to be looked at during a PPI for a Porsche 996... I will save it and then find the best Porsche (966) specialist in whatever town the car is located in. I will try to look for cars for sale on the enthusiast forums, but if there is an excellent car on FB or CL, I would be stupid not to atleast give it a chance. Even if the seller is ignorant, that's nothing a PPI can't clarify IMHO (If I am wrong here, plz let me know lol). Thanks again everyone... I am close to doing a /end thread on this, - Max

Paralysis by analysis�

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+1, keep the ghia

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Someone needs to explain the K.I.S.S. principle here.

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If the OP isn't an engineer he should be, as he's exactly like every engineer I work with (am one myself). But there's a reason we have program managers, and that's to take it away from us when it's good enough. Because it will never be good enough to us since it's not perfect. So they pay people good money to save us from ourselves. I'm long-winded myself so I get where the OP is coming from. But when you are trying to get someone to do something for you (answer questions, provide feedback, negotiate, sell you their car) then you have to do so on their terms. They don't want drama, but something simple. Your opening post reads like something out of an apocalyptic novel, I've been buying/selling cars for decades and never experienced anything like what you wrote. If I saw you coming I'd probably run the other way, it's just not worth the perceived hassle. Tring to be gentle here, but your responses are thousands of words. You asked people here for feedback but your replies aren't worth the trouble of reading, there's nothing in it for us. That would be different if you were imparting ancient wisdom we asked for, but we didn't. I can pretty much guarantee no one read all of what you wrote. Sellers almost certainly perceive that too. Scale it back, focus on what's important, and stop analyzing everything to death. You are obviously a smart guy and if you can learn this lesson early you'll go far.

I'd cut him some slack. He is a young guy that's looking for advice and appreciate of everyone's help. Good to see a highly motivated future 996 owner.

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Glad he's motivated too, and like I said he's obviously a sharp kid. If he can channel that there will be no stopping him, seriously he'll be running the place he works with his attention to detail. My point was that it's better to learn this stuff earlier rather than later, and often we don't tell people what they need to hear as we don't want to upset them. I want him to win so better to risk him being mad at me for a short period than to keep making the same mistakes. People have hinted at it in the comments but weren't just coming out and saying it. I know how his mind works as mine works the same way, but I have the benefit of a few decades of learning lessons the hard way.

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Yup. I'm like this too. I'm pretty decent at writing but I constantly need to edit myself when posting, otherwise I'll put in way too much information. I probably would have been similar at his age. I might actually buy that book someone mentioned earlier in this thread...

Quotes source post: 19441984

The PCA is borderline hostile to anyone under 50. Dont waste your time. if you do join, only do it for the discount. Search online in southern california, thats where most good 996's are going to be. Florida you risk getting a flood car, anywhere north you are risking rust. autotrader usually has a good assortment of cars and those so cal sellers will have better info than some farmer in nebraska.

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Enginner here too. The book is Smart Brevity. Less is more. My wife kept dropping hints, and quite frankly, it�s helped in my career as well.

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"PCA is borderline hostile"......what rock have you been living under? I've belonged to a lot of clubs and can honestly say the PCA club has probably been by far the best one to join! Unless your a real A-hole to others you meet at their GTG's, I would highly recommend joining your local PCA chapter!

Quotes source post: 19500091

Regarding PCA, I think it all depends on the region and the guys/gals that attend the events. There are always cliques when it comes to people, but you just got to go to a few events, find the event types you like, and then get involved and you will find your own clique that works. Pretty easy to volunteer. You meet a ton of folks. Here in the Chicago Region, we are always looking for younger folks to get bitten by the Porsche bug. I would join when you get the car and get involved. There are a wide range of age groups, cars and socioeconomic backgrounds. I sure there are a couple of regions in the country that may have a few folks that are full of themselves, but at the end of the days folks just gel over Porsches and don't care what your job is nor the size of your bank account. You will end up having a blast.

Quotes source posts: 19499047, 19498786, 19500053, 19500114

I learn from the mistakes of people who took my advice. In spite of a PolySci degree, somehow I ended up in the engineering department of a utility company for over 20 years. I can relate to where you guys are coming from. I was the smart *** of the department and I loved doing my fake 'spilled coffee' routine. I had times where plans had to be signed by the Director of Engineering or the Deputy Director so I would do this every time we had a new one. It worked on new employees too that needed their plans signed.

REPLIES: dporto - lol you can say that again! I have been looking at a few of the "local cars" now. ----- isalos - Ghia is going to be kept! I just need to fix her up... shes an amazing car and always manages to start (tho more frequently via a push start rather than via the key and starter -___- ) ------ bmchan - I love the IDEA of KISS but damn, the last thing I want is the car to explode on me. I would literally cry dude. Not even going to entertain the idea of that happening! Though I am proud to say that I have officially left the "doing my research" phase and have entered the "I am actually shopping for these cars now" phase and getting a bit of seat time/riding... Now my new main problem is below... getting a PPI (see general post below) ------ PV997 - Hahahha! I am (sorry) to say that you're right... I am an electrical engineer. I think I may have mentioned that in my #1 post, but I would not put it past you for not reading my 17,000 word BOOK I posted! But yea, I am absolutely long winded... Runs in the family. I am the short-winded one in comparison! Yikes hahah. I have been taking it slow, running it past my family and so forth before sending the seller(s) any questions. We got to slowly ramp it up. I did indeed dump a apocalyptic novel. Too much work, but I needed to do it. No need to read it all I have been weighing the pros and cons of these cars and am scared. In the below "general post" I am now struggling with the fact that in tulsa, NO ONE whos a Porsche mechanic will do a PPI with a borescope... No one... Why is below. And your reply to GC, thanks,, but you are absloutly right. I need to hold to the 80:20 principal of 20 percent effort, 80 percent completion. There is a time and place for attention to detail... too much and you must remind yourself of KISS hahahah! No need to hold back though. I need to hear these things. I may be 24 but damn the knowledge that my elders have is extreme. I joke that only after HS or college do you really start aging. In that way, I am 2 years old in a way. A big gift and a curse but mostly a blessing IMHO! I like to try an listen to you experienced guys as much as possible as I look at it like this: You prob were me at one point but took years to learn it. Why do I need to learn it like that too if you are spelling it out how to avoid that! So thanks for the insight! The hard truths are appreciated. ------ GC996 - thanks GC, but yea, in hindsight, I did post too much. It would have been better just to chat with some 996 guys over lunch but I dropped by the last few PCA Tulsa meetings an not a 996 in sight. I will eventually drop by just to snoop in my karmann ghia for a bit of street cred, but even then, I don't think many of the guys there might have the info I really need. I am quite jealous of the guys from very big or car centric areas like LA or Dallas... I bet their car scene is CRAZY! I want in to the 996 owners club, but not at the price of a blown engine 6 months into ownership. No-stinkin-thanks. TBH. this has been quite the hassle... An "exotic" shop I called (for a PPI)basically said he'd never touch a 996 with a 10 ft pole the SOMEONE ELSE is holding... Dechunks, bore scoring, IMS, worn valve guides, Vairocam issues... the list goes on. But thanks to you guys and the internet as a whole, I know what these things are! I think the exotic car guy was as dramatic as I am as he was like "get a real Porsche" and I think thats why these cars are a fraction of the typical 911 cost... I am still seeing that the actual owners of these cars are loving every second and I still want that. I, again, just must be careful and follow protocols. ------- Arione - Really about the hostile PCA? I honestly figured... A shame honestly. I will still try my luck though. Can't know for sure until you get there! I am sure every local PCA group is different too. At the end of the day, I would do it for the discount! I found the (below red 996) on autotrader and I am finding the best cars there for some reason. Theres nothing in FB or CL... Also theres nothing on here or on PCA in my area. Sucks but true. I am going to try my luck locally first.. once i win or fail we will try non local... I found a car I want, but theres no PPI's in tulsa, but for (good) reason(s)! ----- SoCal911t - We got another one! Even the guy with the red Porsche below is an engineer.... whats with us engineers! Hahhaha. And the spilled coffee routine is savage... I like it! ======================================================================== === GENERAL POST: So yea, I am checking out this semi rough 996 daily driver and shes got me quite hooked. I need to do my due diligence though. Here is a quick rundown of the car. The current owner has had it for 10 years, did all his own work, and finally got a 997. Wife needs the "other Porsche" gone and thus, I am a buyer. It has 140k miles, paint in need of a full restoration (guards red), no IMS solution, old 60k mile clutch and flywheel, but otherwise, a very well taken care of car. It is not the color, or the mileage I was looking for and they posted the car for 28k... I'll get to that later So I am interested, so I went looking for a PPI... Porsche tulsa, NO, Rennsport, will only do a visual PPI (aka no bore scope) NO moving on, the guys on the forum said "go to tom"... well Tom passed away in 2022... Yikes, ok, so I called a bunch of local guys and got told about this exotic car repair shop. I called him and he was like "have you taken cars to me"... no. "sorry, cant do the PPI (this guy was cool and all though, no flack to him). He says no one is doing PPI's as if I told you this car was good and it exploded, what would you do (esp if I had mclaren money), "you'd sue me! and I dont have time for that"! Yikes. ok so now I know why rennsport only does visual PPI's. I can do that too :/ So yea. this sucks man. I had to cook up a new idea and this is what I got: The owner said that when he did the RMS and IMS (dual row) that he did not do the clutch as it looked great and he never drives it hard... sure sure. So I WILL be doing the LN solution and a new flywheel with all the pieces and that package is NOT cheap. Flywheel is like 1k+ and the LN solution is like 2k. All parts combined we are looking at an easy 5k even when doing it DIY. Thats a talking point. Next the paint, needs that resto. It has a part where the door hit a light post and they used bondo and its cracking. Then the front needs respray and the roof needs clear coat help. Overall very much not perfect.. easy 2k. Then theres just the simple mileage of the car... 140k. not at all low. All suspension is new and it rides VERY VERY well. I like it, but my thought is I could get an amazing example (perfect paint, 70k miles, great engine, LN bearings, etc) for 32k... 28k for this one? naw. If he cant entertain like a 22k tops, I think its time to walk away. Back to the PPI situation. He said he has a bore scope (as he does all his own work) and the pistons are good. He is sending me a cold start video today, BaT style with the thermometer and all. Good. Once I get that, I want to make an offer and somehow (in like 250 words or less) mention WHY I am "low balling" and explain these things. He is a cool guy and claims he is looking for someone who will really drive it and enjoy it. Hes an engineer too might I add lol. I am hoping he thinks I am that guy, because I am that guy! So yea. Once he gets that offer and if he accepts (offer is contingent upon assuming a successful PPI), I think we could just do our own PPI. I get the OBD machine to check for the over revs, the cam deviation, and etc. Then We do a leakdown and compression test. Next we do the vacuum of the block (idk about that and need to research), then we take off the pan and bore scope each and every cylinder, finally, just a visual inspection and whatever else I can think of. Then, if (hopefully), its all Green = go, we finally get a 996! **butterflies** Now, whats on the back of my mind is what the exotic car guy said. He is like: bore score, variocam failure, IMS failure, de-chunk failure, cracked heads, worn valve guides, etc. BE VERY AWARE! These cars will bite you. Then he mentioned that he would buy this car for no more that 18k... thats 10k less than the asking price. I would love to lowball like that, but its so damn unlikely that he would even go for it. The exotic car guy said "this guy would probably be over the moon that you even offered to buy the damn thing AT ALL" Yikes... He then hit me with the "I would just get a real Porsche". After this phone call, I threw away the 996 dream and said naw. I am done, I dont want a 966........... The next day I woke up thinking of the 996 <3. DAMMIT! I just like these cars. Screw the headlight hate, I like it and IDK why. Its someting about them being so old school. I LOVE it! So yea. Thats were I am at gents... I would love to hear your thoughts Car: His notes: Rare Guards Red with Black interior and equipped with a 6 speed manual transmission. Clean Carfax History Report with no damage reported (Note from BLOKU: but the door got dented around the drivers handle and the bondo is cracking see photo). The sale includes two keys, upgraded CD player, and Premium Coco floor mats. Intermediate shaft bearing (IMS) and Rear Main Seal (RMS) replaced and all service meticulously performed. ***SEE PAINT/OLD DAMAGE TO DOOR ***SEE PAINT ON ROOF.... ***SEE PAINT ON FRONT END

Quotes source post: 19500122

Apparently I've been living under fogey rock, because I've had the aircooled gatekeeper experience in Florida, Hawaii, and California. a 996 is going to get the same hate my Boxster S and 944 did. PCA is largely a AARP car club built so the top brass get free vacations.

I would run fast and far from that red 996. It needs body work(really a whole new door) and at that mileage its going to be expensive to maintain with minimal value. If you can get it for less than 10k then maybe. Better off finding a better example in the 25-35k range. Especially with "did all my own work" You are going to want one with dealer records, if not then at least a trusted indy.

I DMed you a good example of a 2001 6MT base located at Porsche Olmstead in Ohio. This thing looks immaculate at a fair price. however nice 996's are going for 997 money. You may want to look into the 997.1's as well. I sold my 06 C2 2 years ago for 35k with 90k miles on it. It had a few accidents but nothing more than bumpers or once a tacoma backed into it and the hitch destroyed the hood.

Yeah, that car looks like a sub-$25K example. Maybe I'm rusty on my pricing but $28K sounds ridiculous for that. Your experience highlights the issue with invasive (borescope) PPIs. They're def. a great idea if you can get one. But it's hard to find a shop that actually does them and an owner that's willing to have it done. The PCA San Diego region have been great for me & we have a lot of rich people around here. I've mostly stuck to the road tours, HPDE events and autocross. You get people that will actually drive their cars at those. I've seen lots of Boxsters at the HPDE events. Most of the 991/992 guys or the $150K aircooled guys won't take their car on a track. I've gone to a few of the local dinner socials that attract more of the well heeled types and they've been nice to me too.

Quotes source post: 19500114

Added to my Amazon cart.

"Smart Brevity " ... That has always been my literary protocol. ( I am the opposite of a Journalist ) . I recently got a looong E-mail from Baz ( Barry Hart /proprietor of Hartech ) complimenting me on a statement he had found that I made on the internet describing the correlations of volumetric efficiency / peak torque / peak horsepower, saying it was "the most concise and accurate description he had ever seen"......yep less can be more ....

64 Ghia, 2nd owner, complete history known. 99 996, 3rd owner, most history known. Bloku, Glad to hear that you plan on keeping the Ghia. Much like I mentioned on The Samba website last week. Totally agree with just about everything members have posted here and over on the cousins VW site. Two different beast for sure and I for one have enjoyed them both to the hilt. Ghia- Wife says "this car sits so low". 996- Wife says "slow down your going too fast" You totally get it according to the stable of fine motor cars you have or have had. Take your time my friend! Find what you like and feel is right. Have it gone over by a PPI you trust and you'll be fine. After all, it's your life and your decision in the end, no one else's. As for me, "Give me Ghia and Porsche or, give me death". Felipe de Espa�a

Quotes source post: 19506792

Yeah the internet thing "TLDR" was created for a valid reason...😬 As Sargent Joe Friday said: "Just the facts Ma'am. Just the facts."

This is only one guy’s opinion. So, take this with a grain of salt: There are no bargains. Only unrevealed surprises/catastrophes. There are cars with less mileage, receipts, and either no body damage, or invisible repairs close to the red car’s asking price. YOU WANNA BUY THAT BETTER CAR. KEEP LOOKING- IT TOOK ME OVER A YEAR TO FIND MY CAR. The pictured car is in reality, a high teens car in my opinion. Figure at least $5k for paint repair and body work to the visible flaws- a full ‘windows in’ repaint is at least $10k- the paint alone is really expensive just to buy the right red paint in a can. Do not Maaco the paint. Knowing you’ll spend $10-15k to get it worth $28k… there is a point where a used Porsche is not a headache- this car looks like a migraine. Your car is out there, keep looking for ‘the one’. Take a breath, and use that analytical mind to put yourself in a winning situation, not just the one that’s available. Best wishes.

REPLIES: Arione - Dang, ok so check and check about the PCA. I can tell that porsches in general are a very much pay to enter style gig. If you dont pay, YOU DONT GET IN. And shame on you for not paying real porsche money Ha, jokes on you, I over paid for my 996. Jkjk. But for real, I am a bit put off by taking my hippie looking self in my hippie moble (the ghia) and being like, whatup whatup PCA! I'm Max hahaha! I will do it anyways. Worst case situation is that they are just very aloof and wont hold a conversation. I will just hop back in the ghia, pray she starts, and drive off and attempt to find better people. Something tells me it might be mixed bag though? I will just have to try. Too bad you had those bad experiences though Arion And I am really really thinking of running fast and far. I was going to offer right at 18k. Do you think that too is too much? EVERY LAST DANG 996 I SEE IS atleast 24k... It sucks. All my life, all 24 years, I have been watching car after car after amazing car inflate in price before I could even have the CHANCE to make big boy money and get one... I was down bad for a VW bus back when I was 12 in 2011 and they were cheap... 10k and below cheap. As soon as I saved my first 4k by mowing lawns, it was 2013, I was 14, and the prices of split window busses had legit gone FAR above 20k mark... Gone. I started thinking of porsches when I went to college in 2019 after HS in 2017 and (tho I was a fried egg hater then) the prices of 996s were sub 20s for even a nice one. As soon as I got that money, they nearly doubled in price... DANG it man. This sucks I am still thinking of throwing him a 17k offer and seeing what he does. I feel like I may be wasting his time, but that also is the nature of selling a fine mobile like a porsche, is it not? He has every last record from the last 10 years of every fix he did, car felt fricken amazing, but that paint, that lack of IMS solution, that mileage, and the old clutch along with the engine being a big ??? is 10k off in my book. Like the exotic car guy said, I would offer 15k and he should be begging me to buy it. I have gotten a lot of junkers and sub 4k dollar cars before, but I am not at all in my court negotiating with numbers like these. I almost feel like a jerk and IDK why? I am sure I would be happy if I could keep on driving the car for 5 years with just maintenance... IDK though P.S. I will check out that 996 you sent. I am still down bad, though I am thinking of just saving more and getting a 997.2 as that seems to be just the overall better car and far less of a headache. I just need to do research... It seems ALL PORSCHES BORESCORE and have issues... I just need to see what I am OK with. I want to get a 996 NOW before the prices go up even more, and then save for an FSI engine and put in the the corner of the garage for the day it gets "too many miles" and the engine needs to go. I want that. I don't think that this is the car though. I am looking for somewhat of a forever car so I think I need to find a sub 80k mile example, with the non-flashy paint that I want, and get that, not this. I will just see how this plays out ------- ssherman68 - I don't think you're rusty on the pricing! Thats what the modern 996 market WANTS you to think lol! He has his own bore scope and I am thinking I might just pay him to let me come over, and we take the oil pan off and look in there ourselves. He is willing to have it done. He is pretty cool too and I like that. Very much a person who loves their car (but he may be jivin, who knows) I will def check out the autox and the HPDE around here. I have memories of going to porsche autox's back in the mid 2000s with dad... I have been SICK AND I MEAN SICK with the car bug from the day dad brough back a PS2 and Grand Turismo 4 in 2004... I remember my pure shock and amazement of this "24 h on the lemons thingy?.. huh why is the timer at 23:59:59???" OMZG is this a real thing? IT was... the 24hrs of lemans is amazing. God I love motorsport. I am an avid sim racer as well and am STILL sick with it. I am very much thinking I should just upgrade my sim rig to the pro level (4k dollar rig) and be done with this 996 dream for a few years, but if the right one comes along, I would be foolish not to get it. I still feel a bit of haste though ------ Felipe Abbott - You have great taste in cars Funny thing rq... In the Christmas stop motion film, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer, there is a scene where there is an island of misfit toys that no one wants. The king of the island is King Moonraiser. I want my dad and I to name our little shop "Moonraiser Auto Works" lol! All we have are misfit cars and the 996 seems to fit right in at home Ghia is great. I am thinking I just need to max out the ghia's potential and build her a nice motor, and get every last spec of rust gone and so forth. That would be great as she really is a mini porsche IMHO. A true poor mans porsche 356 thru and thru. I even plan to weld vert rockers in when I replace the rockers as to get that added stiffness but on a hard top. Also I am thinking of X frame on the pan with a roll bar for some sort of crash safety and stiffness. Still fun stuff! I will be taking the time. This car came along and I still think I aught to entertain it. Now 28k of entertain? NAW! But 18k of entertain... hummmmmm maybe ------ GmundtotheWorld - There are not bargains... onl unrevealed surprises... Yikes. Yea, the goal is to have no supprises. I am really thinking I shall keep looking. Actually, I will keep looking. I will see how low he will go, but yea, time to move on. Many thanks sir, THANKS TO ALL!!!

All I can tell you is that I recently (March this year) bought a 2002 Carrera 4 Cabrio. It needed work, hydraulic cylinders for top leaking, oil change needed, window regulator needed, cosmetics (shift boot, gear lever, trim pieces) AC compressor. Mechanics were sound, clutch solid, no metal in oil or filter, 98K miles. Runs great, very quick and solid. I fixed all those little things myself with the help of YouTube, and after buying it for $14,500 I am now into it for about $16,000. As I look at others for sale it is worth at least $20K. Keep looking, 28K for that one is way high.

Quotes source post: 19507015

I would not buy a 996 if I were you. I wouldn�t buy a Porsche either. I was making over 6 figures when I bought a $6,200 8 yr-old Mini Cooper S. At 24, I bought a $2300 motorcycle (A Honda Shadow ACE - which is a poor man�s Harley) and instead put $12,000 down on my first property (and a place to live). Get yourself a $10k poor man�s Porsche. Maybe a Toyota 86, Miata, or some other great sports car that�s going to be cheaper to operate. You want a high bang for your buck, and a Porsche is more buck than bang.

Yeah, @Bloku_, have you considered other German enthusiast cars? Dollar for dollar and hour for hour, you could get into an Cayman, M3, M5, S4, RS5, C63 AMG, E63 AMG, E55 AMG, etc... a lot faster with a similar (if not better) driving experience. I bought a neglected E55 AMG (with 'good bones') for $8K, put another $15K into it (including air suspension swap for coilovers) and it was amazing. And I did most of the work myself in my garage. Damn near everything is more expensive for anything for Porsches. The "Porsche Tax" is real. And while they really are special cars, most certainly aren't worth it when compared to other options. It's only worth it when you have to have a Porsche 911. And then, it's a labor of love. Personally, I had to have a 911. If I took the money I spent on my C4S (stock with lowering springs), I would have a really f*cking amazing M3. Amazing condition, spec, mileage, mods. Amazing everything.

I'll play a little devil's advocate here. I Think some people are in a Porsche 911 bubble. You can't start with the price of a good example, say $30-35k and just start subtracting the work needed. Paint costs $10k, so I'll offer $20k, IMS Solution costs $4k, so I'll offer only $16k. At some level your buying the platform. I'm in the market looking for a 16 year olds first car. A halfway decent 2014-2016 4cyl Mazda 3 is $12-15k, a Toyota Matrix, Corolla, Camry... all 80-100k miles are about $13-17k or more. 2015 Honda Civic $15k. A 2014 Kia Soul, with 5 different engine-exploding recalls, including bore-scoring (!!) still sells for $12-14k!! More generally, at $16k you can start to find V8 Porsche Cayans. Something silly, like a 2005 Ford Thunderbird is $18k! A Maserati Quattroporte, and their questionable (terrible) reliability starts at $18k. BMW Z4 $17k, a 10year old Miata is $18k. My point is that there is a price floor given the broader market, and you're at it! All of this is to say that it would be very surprising for a running driving 911, with decent maintenance history, an honest open enthusiast owner, in a good color, even if cosmetically rough, to be $17.5k or less. Saying that this 911 is comparable to a decent 10 Year old Camry, or an even more failure prone Kia or a Maserati, would be surprising, if not insulting. Sure, the 911 will need a lot more expensive maintenance than a Camry, but again, at some point you're buying the platform. I would say that if he's asking $28k, he humors you to do a oil pan drop and engine scope, and you offer $17k or less... Corolla money... Well I'd be pissed. Don't waste his time. EDIT, PS: I'm not saying that car is worth $28k. Bondo on the door is terrible and never should have been done. But if you're at the price floor for a crappy example, then you would be better off moving up off the price floor and finding a good example.

Imho, you are always better off buying a well serviced and well sorted 996 for $35k than a piece of crap for $20k. The reason is a well serviced and sorted 996 will have service records, oil changes and parts properly refreshed which will save you boat loads of money. Parts and labor if you aren't a DIY guy. Engine refresh ~ $10-15k Full suspension refresh ~ $8-10k Full exhaust refresh ~ $8-10k Interior refresh ~$2-5k Exterior paint refresh ~$2-15k New ​​wheels & tires ~$4-5k Wheel reconditioning ~$700 ​​​​New brake pads and rotors ~$1000 Girodisc brake kit ~$3500 ​Aero Kit ~$5-10k Sure, you can save alot of money if you are a DIY guy. But nobody needs a Porsche and they will end up costing you alot of money over time. Whether you like it or not. The way to contain your costs are to either buy a well sorted 996 for a bit more money that has good bores, lots of service records, good oil tests, alot of oil changes, lots of water pump, AOS, coil, senser, fuel injector changes, upgraded IMSB, and alot of the above referenced stuff done, or spend alot of time looking for used parts for non-engine related parts. There are no bargains with sports cars. But there are sports cars that are better sorted than others which may cost more up front, but substantially less over time.

I agree with @jdbornem and @GC996 , they summed it up nicely...!! The reality is that you are paying for the "911 Platform" and all that that implies !! .....( the cost savings $$$$ is due to the inherit risks, so get used to it) The Old saying " buy the newest example you can afford " still holds true , so that means the best/newest example you can find/afford ... The only real "bargain " is that if you find a really low mileage car that is in pristine condition with a "precieved catastrofic fault " that was miss-diagnosed . ( like an intermix that is only oil in coolant, and happened recently) ...that the repair could be managed for $5K ...but the owner just wanted to be "done with the car"...That's the only way I know of to get a real "bargain" on the 996

Alright gents, I really took what you all said in mind as I went a continued my search. I had looked at a few more 996s in person (had to travel like that vert in wichita), but after my 5 ish months of looking for these cars, the red 996 is the winner! Now, know that I hear what you all are saying about the cars and the price. The 18k was too low of and offer and I thought I would see what you all thought (I thought it was silly), but I am not about to over pay for something that is not worth it either. I like the seller and would not offer him something that low. That's just rude man. This number is simply something the dude at the "exotic shop" said and I took it to heart, until I realized that he is also in a bubble as he deals with 1,000,000 dollar cars all around him. Also, lets just say that the job I got fresh out of school with a computer electrical engineering degree is very very good to me along with, being single, and living in a paid off little home I bought from the family after grandma's passing makes this a non issue. I am kinda an oddball at 24 in this day in age. But regardless, I am never comfortable throwing my money down a drain.... Unless its a 911!!! I am ok with this haha. I am a serious DIY-er and have built several cars all the way down to doing full on engine rebuilds, pulls, etc. I am not a novice by any means. I could have been a mechanic and not an engineer. Sure it has the miles, and the paint issues, but like you all said, I am buying the platform. Unsurprisingly, the owner of the guards red 996 shown above is a mechanical engineer. He got the car from the 2nd owner (3rd if you count dealerships) and has had it for 90k miles of driving, 138k miles total. 90k are 20 mile highway drives to and from work in oklahoma. Id take that over a 60k car driven in LA all its life TBH (more like IMHO but I digress, I gotta convince myself somehow right?). It has passed every mechanical test and has been very very well taken care of by the previous owner. The bores have been scoped within the last few months and after really talking to the owner and of course, bringing my highly skeptical father with me, the owner is a very cool guy and very professional. In short, I and my father trust him enough to take his word. I know where he lives too hahahah! Jk jk but yes, I am going through with the deal. He wants to keep in touch and go one some cruises. Yes lord (anderson paak quote). So yea, about the price, lets say I got it for a good price that many would jump on, but she needs work/TLC. The price is right under what ssherman68 said that "he thought it was worth". The owner is a perfectionist and it shows. He recently got a 997 and has 7 cars total in suburbia oklahoma so the 996 is taking up space. Perfect for me IMHO. I, at the worst case scenario, will have the platform with zero rust and no major crashes! I am really excited. She a 2001 guards red carrera with PSM and the shortest option list ive ever seen on one of these cars! The list is below in more detail plus an odd question about the 438 option (comfort seat right). I am a bit confused by 438 comfort seat right being the only option and there being no 437 comfort seat left option?! They both are fully mechanical chairs! I wanted that, but just for the geek in me want to know about the option sheet. All I want is a near-zero optioned 996 with a sun roof and PSM and I think I just got that. Below are some additional photos. She is dry as a bone, zero leak car, and everything works near-perfect, all needed replacements have been done, some extra parts will be thrown in (variocam pads, clutch master cylinders, etc.), and yea... The sunroof has not been opened in years, only tilted open, not open-opened in years, so I am going to have to be SERIOUSLY careful getting her open. I am a big sunroof guy (I open mine 1/2 the days I drive it, close it at every damn gas station or place I park at, and want to get that working, but I will figure that out later. The last thing I want to do is have to do some crazy roof removal to get a damn sunroof open... yikes. The car came with m030 suspension and I love it. He also replaced everything with some nice ploy bushings (no squeaks or sounds... feels like the other 996s with rubber suspension Ive driven, so good but may bad??), added adjustable swaybars, and even a 1/2 to 1 ish quart extra deep sump with upgraded baffles for cornering... When I asked about "is this a deep sump" he said "Yes it is!! If you add swaybars, you will turn harder, then from a mechanic/engineer standpoint, the engine will be laterally G-'d even more, so for safety, I added this sump and baffles to keep it from oil starving!" Nice!!! He "showed me what it could do in a turn" on a highway clover interchange and even I was a bit shocked on how well and flat and quickly it turned! Impressive. It would give a brand new 2024 miata a run for its money in the turns! Damn son. He also replaced the factory m030 shocks with bilsteins factory m030 replacements. There are 3 mods on this car, deep sump, sway bars, and... I forget.... Good mods regardless and I would not upgrade much beyond this. Even little things like the shifter links popping out and the annoying auto switching exhaust have been fixed. He rebuilt the shifter linkage too. All these things and more (IMS, RMS, etc.) have all been serviced. I am happy with this purchase thus far, but will be taking it into my shop next week, after the holiday! I plan to turn the exhaust back to "quiet mode" for now as his "fix" was to set the switchable exhaust to default to "loud" as he simply un-hooked the vacuum line that ran to it. I plan to use some form of solinoid/transistor to make a button next to the radio control the exhaust for a controlled switchable exhaust!!!! How fun Even things like the 2x radiators have been replaced recently and their hoses. Even the hoses above the transmission have been replaced in the last 3 years! Great. Now there is a mechanical issue... There is a slow start issue. Randomly, the starter turns slower than expected. The starter is original. He has tried various batteries and they are not the cause, but it is something that needs to be tracked. She has stranded the owner only 1 time when the alternator said bye bye! This car has been their daily driver for that last 10-11 years! I suspect until I track this down, It will keep doing this, but the problem has never stranded the owner before... We will get to that when we get to that. The plan is to honestly keep an eye on the oil, doing changes 2x a year, and send the oil in for analysis. Once I see the bore scoring going, I plan to do a full engine refresh and drop in mezger engine style aluminum cylinders! I am excited to daily her for as long as I can I am sure there are more problems, but we will get there when we get there. For now, I got the platform and fell in love with the car. I am just happy that the deal was sealed at a good price and the car is a driver! EXACTLY what I was looking for. Blessed. Also, car has 0 accidents (tho someone bashed the door at one point and *tried* to DIY it... 10+ years later, the bondo cracked and is rearing its ugly head. I like a bit of patina. Proof she's lived lol. Makes me less afraid to scratch it! Here's my current list of things to do: - Brand new 225/40r18s front and 265/35/r18s in the rear. ***Tire note - Get an Alignment - Restore the paint ***Paint note - Open the sunroof - Track the slow start issue - Inspect everything - Oh, fix the stick reverse light sensor (reverse lights on while driving in vid from dad) - REMOVE THE ALUMINUM and get the factory black pieces. Looks kinda cheap IMHO. I might keep the console though (heck, anyone want to trade?!) - Dash cam (can and will be used against you in court... I may be like "what dash cam''?) - Radar detector - GT3 console delete... or not because apple car play/android auto double din touch screen with voice control (or just PCCM+) sounds really damn nice. If I do that, there's no room for the climate control so idk. Some 3d printed gt3 console deletes I have seen actually have an (ugly) din for the climate control.... Also, I would love to track a BOSE speaker interior and just swap it.... Ah, I love a new car so much :''") - probably 10x + other things waiting in the shadows -____- we have a toyota so I am ok whatever happens (or so I tell myself!!!) - tell my self no matter what I do, the risk with these cars will never be zero. I did my due diligence, and am ready to drive! ***Tire note - This is a 996.1 so 7.5'' front and 10'' wheels for 18'' inch wheels, right? I need to see for myself once its in my shop. But assuming this is so, I would like to go a bit wider, but I dont think I need to. I want to get the PSM happy so I do not want to go anything beyond stock. Stock rocks because that's how the engineers at Stuttgart designed it! Closer to stock the better ***Paint note - Restore via simple compound on the non-clear coat ruined areas and wetsand and respray the parts eaten thru (see below photos on roof). The door will have to wait until I track down a new door and guards red paint (rare I hear...) Also below are some photos of the car and my question about the options list... Here is what I have "deciphered" c02 - cats (exhaust usa) 030 - M030 suspension (yess!!! he replaced all the the suspension and it feels great! My inner sim racer / track goer is happy!) 236 - Internal production code related to tires 413 - 18" Turbo look wheels (yummy, my fav wheels and size on these cars! yasss) 438 - Comfort seat right ( ???? 437 is the left seat but its not on the options list. The seats are all mechanical, no electronics (a plus imho), but I am wondering about this... I assume they just didn't want to take the space to say L and R seats on the sticker? 446 - Wheel caps with colored Porsche crest (he even replaced these too with new units!) 476 - PSM Porsche Stability Management (thank goodness. I want this... I am not a track god and even if I was.... Sleepy on the way to work in the rain, I need this. I plan to "restore" the PSM as much as I can) And thats the entire list! This is the smallest one I have seen online thus far online! I am happy about this!!!! This is just like how my grandfather spec'd his 1994 bmw e36 when he bought it brand new. 4cyl, base model, nothing except sunroof was optioned out! He also owned a gull wing back when he was my age... He was a mechanical engineer as well (engineers on both side of the fam. Fun stuff!). I am finally apart of the 911 club. It feels so odd to be here, but I have been working hard to get here and all the saving is paying off. Life is good gents! I can't wait to drive her to work once I get her sorted and cleaned up again! I am happy I park in the closed parking garage (rare for oklahoma but I do work in the city so yea), and that will keep the paint from "frying" again! Future 996 owner ----> Current 996 owner Thanks everyone, sorry for the essays! I will bring some technical essays some fine day after tracking who knows what issue or fixing the car. I plan to document the car on this forum! So now I can offically say /end once I reply to yall! Peace, - Bloku

C'mon dude> Brevity. Learn to be concise.

Nice car! Drive it in health.

Congrats. Regarding slow start issue; if it is a 6 speed manual I have found with mine that if the clutch is not absolutely plastered to the floor it sounds like a half dead battery. Jam the clutch into the floorboard and fires up just fine. Just FYI.

Thanks gents! Its good to be here And bmchan, I hear ya, but also think there's no harm. TLDR, I got the car I know you're (anyone replying) is as bad as me though, we should be chillin with the family watching the fireworks and so forth (those in USA ofc) and not on the forum ! california996c4 - I will have to try this! I always do that, but the slow start was when I started it thru the window from outside, so yea

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nah, just learn to read faster

I�m really jealous that you got a stunning red C2. The sump makes it a great deal! Congratulations!

Congrats Bloku. Persistence is everything in life. Need a day to get thru 4th of July festivities to study your writeup. But welcome to the 996 ownership club! Best damn club on earth!

Welcome to the club! You are now on the slippery slope like the rest of us... do this, do that, maybe this, but also while I'm in there... Sounds like a great starting point. Drive and smile Oh, and first thing, just change the starter. It's old and will die in the next year or two anyway. Check the Y cable 'while you're in there'.And never worry about it again. Good luck!!

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That puts high loads into the clutch release bearing and worse to the Thrust bearing at the crank shaft. It accelerates wear of that Thrust bearing. I start every manual transmission car (without a clutch switch) out of gear, foot on brake, foot off the clutch. Having typed the above I understand US vehicles with MT probably all have a clutch switch from a certain year of manufacture as it became mandatory...

It’s super easy to remove the clutch lockout switch. Jake Ruby recommended this yeas ago to reduce wear on the thrust and throw out bearings…

dporto, I already replaced the brake light switch so I know right where the clutch lockout switch is, just attached the two wires together and ditch the switch? I was worried might cause a warning light or code? Thanks!

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You can use a properly sized blade fuse to connect the two wires together bypassing the switch. No need to remove the switch.

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Perfect Thanks!

@golock911 - Is this "the Y" connector, golock911? - PHOTO . This replacement seems not bad at all!! RENNLIST LINK .... Very nice guide BTW @Ying ! The OEM starter price seems just silly @ $1200 USD ---> LINK TO PORSCHE STARTER . Yikes. If this is like other german cars, it seems like the price is high but the quality is maybe what 5% better than a viable OEM replacement ---> LINK TO BOSCH STARTER . Researching, here is where I am reading right now, but it's for turbo 996. Folks in the comments are saying that's a pure money grab and an "F you"! I could not agree more. LINK TO 996 TURBO STARTER FORUM So ladies(?) and gentlemen, what's the consensus on important parts (ie starter, injectors, crank, not non-important things like buttons or wipers): OEM, Rebuilt, OEM replacement (Bosch, etc.), or straight aftermarket (O'Reilly's (I wouldn't dare))? I prefer rebuilt but that's kinda oldschool and hard to find rebuild kits any more or someone to ship it to. I need to do research on what starters are good OEM porsche replacements or not... A friend who owns the only air cooled VW shop in Tulsa (Eric at Bughaus) claims that many parts on the 996 can be had for half the money because there are many shared parts / VW equivalent parts on these 996's from the porsche audi vw bmw group... So a "same part, different logo" situation!? Please correct me if I am wrong. I will be researching this too. ------- @hardtailer - At first, I thought what you said was odd when I first read it. My thinking was "who cares bc you press the clutch 100s of times on a long drive vs just 1 time on startup". So am I thinking correctly here: On startup, the thrust bearings are taking a lot of the clutch's force if you disengage it, and the oil might not be flowing there yet either causing extra wear? Now, the throw out bearing / release bearing wear seems straight forward, but because the thrust bearing is non-oiled (sealed), I can't see how this would cause extra wear perse... Please help me out with this thinking! I am trying to level up my mechanical sympathy stat (silly gaming joking). Thanks for the info though, I had never thought of the thrust bearings on startup in this regard... ------- @dporto - For sure! I shall add this to my to-do list I plan to start a thread where I introduce myself and the car and document basic to-do's, fixes, mods, etc.. That way I have some "eyes on me" to see if I do something stupid or need some assistance! Oof, wait. After reading what the others said in reply to you, dporto, I would like to be able to bypass the clutch switch for startup only , but if this cruise control is like other cars from the 90s, if you press the clutch, the cruise control disengages due to the switch saying "open". I am guessing that bypassing this will take away this function (leaving only the brake switch to disengage the cruise control). I like this feature and don't want to mess that system up! More research is needed.... Thanks all, I am super excited! I feel like a kid again... Wow how just these 20 years have FLOWN by!!! - Max

Bloku, there is a separate switch (looks like the brake light switch) on the clutch which operates the cruise control link, NOT the one dporto and I were talking about. There are 2 switches on the clutch, a mechanical one and a microswitch. The microswitch does not affect cruise control. Regarding the starter, Pelican Parts has this to say: " You can replace your unit with a genuine Bosch rebuilt unit, or for about the same cost, you can opt for a quality aftermarket unit. The aftermarket starters are higher torque starters, weigh less, use newer technology, and are generally a really good bet for placement in your car." Here is a Bosch unit which has an OEM designation for $327. https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...=c&SVSVSI=0677

VW equivalent parts: the electricals on 996 are shared with the first gen Audi TT and are very similar to the VW MK4 Golf/Jetta. Mechanical parts are not so easy to find equivalents.

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Yes. It is show in this reference as 21. http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=902-05 Agreed with @california996C4 on using a new Bosch starter. That's what I put in mine. I didn't need to replace the Y cable because it was done 2 years previous when the engine was rebuilt. Your joint looks kind of crusty on the outside. It's probably worse on the inside. Good luck!