996 GT3 what’s your thoughts ? - Page 24 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

As above , 996 GT Club sport what’s your thoughts from previous / current owners ? Tks

Tough one, I did not like mine. And many on here don't like them either. There are a few who love them. So no help what so ever :-) In hind site a short final drive and some plush shocks would help fix the main couple of the things I did not gel with.

Porsche911R said: Tough one, I did not like mine. And many on here don't like them either. There are a few who love them. So no help what so ever :-) In hind site a short final drive and some plush shocks would help fix the main couple of the things I did not gel with. I know a certain Member La Source loves them and has enjoyed upgrading his car for years. Essentially I’m mulling over a few cars such as the 996 GT3 ( non RS ) , a gen 1 or 2 997 GT3 or a mk1 997 RS for occasional use and in the hope I won’t lose my shirt. Always had a soft spot for the mk2 Gt3 996 so just learning more about them. The 996 RS I had was good ( financially) but that’s where I’m leaving that one. 997.1 CS also great car( I’ve had two of those) and the GT4 981. Lots to consider especially given I like to drive my cars

Fanboy911 said: I know a certain Member La Source loves them and has enjoyed upgrading his car for years. Essentially I’m mulling over a few cars such as the 996 GT3 ( non RS ) , a gen 1 or 2 997 GT3 or a mk1 997 RS for occasional use and in the hope I won’t lose my shirt. Always had a soft spot for the mk2 Gt3 996 so just learning more about them. The 996 RS I had was good ( financially) but that’s where I’m leaving that one. 997.1 CS also great car( I’ve had two of those) and the GT4 981. Lots to consider especially given I like to drive my cars You should know what you like and dislike with GT3's then. Most GT3 are pretty flawed old and new. So a modded car is the only way to make them work imo. PASM has no place on the 997.1 and .2 Gearing is s t on all but the 997.2 RS I would love a modded 997.1 GT3 but my build added another £50k to the donor and these are rare as heads teeth and a bit over priced atm imo. So no saving on what I own atm !

As an owner I love mine. This is my second MK1 GT3, the first being a comfort with buckets. There is something special about a Clubbie, it feels raw almost race car like, especially having a front cage too. I bet it’s a great car on track. I’ve had mine around 4 years and my previous Comfort for around 6 years. I do feel like I’ve done my 996 GT3 time and am looking to try something else so mine will be for sale possibly in the next few months - 996.1 GT3, clubsport, Speed Yellow, Manthey K400 60,000 miles - massive history file too. The only car I’ve owned that came close was a Cayman R, you could feel Porsche were trying to make an R analog - reminded my a little of my 996. I hear not many clubsport’s came to the UK too, so rare car. Whichever 996 GT3 you end up with MK2 or MK1 you’ll love it I’m sure. Get out and drive one, you’ll be hooked.

Dan911 said: As an owner I love mine. This is my second MK1 GT3, the first being a comfort with buckets. There is something special about a Clubbie, it feels raw almost race car like, especially having a front cage too. I bet it’s a great car on track. I’ve had mine around 4 years and my previous Comfort for around 6 years. I do feel like I’ve done my 996 GT3 time and am looking to try something else so mine will be for sale possibly in the next few months - 996.1 GT3, clubsport, Speed Yellow, Manthey K400 60,000 miles - massive history file too. The only car I’ve owned that came close was a Cayman R, you could feel Porsche were trying to make an R analog - reminded my a little of my 996. I hear not many clubsport’s came to the UK too, so rare car. Whichever 996 GT3 you end up with MK2 or MK1 you’ll love it I’m sure. Get out and drive one, you’ll be hooked. Could I be cheeky and ask for a PM with some pics and details pls ? Many tks you just never know !

Porsche911R said: You should know what you like and dislike with GT3's then. Most GT3 are pretty flawed old and new. So a modded car is the only way to make them work imo. PASM has no place on the 997.1 and .2 Gearing is s t on all but the 997.2 RS I would love a modded 997.1 GT3 but my build added another £50k to the donor and these are rare as heads teeth and a bit over priced atm imo. So no saving on what I own atm ! Many tks What is it you currently drive? What mods add up to 50k on a 991.GT3 ? I’m Intrigued

Fanboy911 said: Many tks What is it you currently drive? What mods add up to 50k on a 991.GT3 ? I’m Intrigued I drive a fully modded 987.2 Spyder and a manual tweaked 991.2 GT3, plus other track focused brands. £50k does every thing possible you could wish for. Short final drive New diff clutch set of 3 way shocks lightweight battery lightweight seats full Inconel exhaust system refresh every bush, drop links, top mounts etc monoball the rear end. AP disks and endless pads all round. lightweight wheels cup steering wheel very easy to spend it. But the cars are old and don't drive like new what ever people say, and I hate PASM, and the gearing. I could not own a standard GT3 after having a 996GT3 and driving most others.

Porsche911R said: PASM has no place on the 997.1 and .2 So as a completely different point of view, I love my 997.1 Clubbie now it's back on standard refreshed PASM after the KW s te that was on it. Absolutely brilliant on the road, may think differently on track if it ever gets there. When looking I was very taken by a red 996 clubbie that was at 911V (owned by someone on here I think), but it was above my budget and the cheap 997 clubbie came along. Each to their own, but I love the 996 and 997 GT3s. Bert

anonymous said: [redacted] Not so the 996.1?

Fanboy911 said: Lots to consider especially given I like to drive my cars Not much to consider really. Just buy Dan’s Manthey GT3 and be done with it.

Fanboy911 said: Not so the 996.1? Endless debate on here and elsewhere as to each cars merits. The Mk1 is softer sprung and damped and makes for a better/nicer car to drive on our less than perfectly surfaced roads. Mk2 more trackday ready, but a Mk1 with it's suspension in rude health is a truly wonderful road car. Add a Manthey K400 conversion and you'll have the same power output as a Mk2 but with a better soundtrack and more character.

Dan911 said: As an owner I love mine. This is my second MK1 GT3, the first being a comfort with buckets. There is something special about a Clubbie, it feels raw almost race car like, especially having a front cage too. I bet it’s a great car on track. I’ve had mine around 4 years and my previous Comfort for around 6 years. I do feel like I’ve done my 996 GT3 time and am looking to try something else so mine will be for sale possibly in the next few months - 996.1 GT3, clubsport, Speed Yellow, Manthey K400 60,000 miles - massive history file too. The only car I’ve owned that came close was a Cayman R, you could feel Porsche were trying to make an R analog - reminded my a little of my 996. I hear not many clubsport’s came to the UK too, so rare car. Whichever 996 GT3 you end up with MK2 or MK1 you’ll love it I’m sure. Get out and drive one, you’ll be hooked. OP, buy this car and NEVER look back. Upgrade the various components as they fail or wear out. The seminal and last (an oxymoron if if ever there was one) truly analogue watercooled GT car. In a proper colour, and being a Clubsport, rare too. Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 3rd March 10:25

Porsche911R said: I drive a fully modded 987.2 Spyder and a manual tweaked 991.2 GT3, plus other track focused brands. £50k does every thing possible you could wish for. Short final drive New diff clutch set of 3 way shocks lightweight battery lightweight seats full Inconel exhaust system refresh every bush, drop links, top mounts etc monoball the rear end. AP disks and endless pads all round. lightweight wheels cup steering wheel very easy to spend it. But the cars are old and don't drive like new what ever people say, and I hate PASM, and the gearing. I could not own a standard GT3 after having a 996GT3 and driving most others. I love mine (997.1 GT3) in completely standard form. Yes, it's old - which is precisely why I love it - It still feels like an analogue 911. I mostly drive mine with the PASM in it's firmer setting as it makes turn-in slightly sharper and more dependable with my particular setup, and driving style (ham-fisted!). Learning it's imperfections and foibles are what makes the ownership journey intoxicating for me, and the longer I own the car ,the more I learn, and the more it works its way into my affections. I had the car on a SORN for the last 3 months, and taxed it again on the 1st. It was the longest 3 months ever, but the drive on Sunday was utterly fabulous. As I reversed it into my garage afterwards I couldn't help but repeat the words "What a thing!" out loud. I don't care that much anymore about outright speed, and ability, and I love the fact that it's beginning to feel a bit like a classic car, albeit still very quick, and usable. Gearing is a non-issue for me, as I don't feel the need to red-line the engine everywhere to get enjoyment from the car. When the opportunity arises it's mega, but there's so much to enjoy as a whole in the way the car responds and feels, that the engine is a wonderful accompaniment, rather than the defining characteristic. I had a Boxster T last November for a couple of days as a courtesy car while having some warranty work undertaken on my GT3. On the bumpy B-roads back from the dealership it felt very planted, way quicker than it had any right to feel, and went about dissecting the road in an entirely fuss-free and entertaining manner. The steering was even ok. So, I had a major wobble! 2 days later, and I felt as though the Boxster had revealed all I was going to learn. Wonderful car though it is, for me it's a one-night stand, not a life partner. The main epiphany came when I got back into my GT3 though: It felt so small! Visibility was fantastic. More NVH. Control weightings were heavier, but the steering was delicate and talkative. I felt like there was less rubber bushing in the suspension. Less isolation. More mechanical. By the time I'd navigated the dealership speed bumps it just felt special, and it felt like a 911 - an old 911. It felt like home. My (rather long) 2p's worth, but we're all different. Enjoy whatever you decide to do.

Id suggest joining the owners club on Facebook, i know the 996.2 one is fairly active. The .2 market seems kinda active on the selling front, Ashgoods look to have sold their nice blue one and JZM have 'deposit taken' on the yellow one. I was tempted to sell mine but would need to return it to stock (ducktail, cage, non oem wheel colour, all cosmetic basically)

I have a 35k Mk1 996.1 CS K400, which has been thoroghly re-worked by Manthey - it has the cup gears, cup synchros, cup final drive, cup diff plates, cup coffin arms, cup trust arms, cup ABS, cup shifter, cup cables and Mk2 brakes. It is trully wonderful on track. A bit less so on the road, unless I am out for a blat. It is the closest you would get to a road going race car from all the modern Porsches. Yet it has a working aircon and allegedly a radio, As for power - a Manthey-ed K400 with the shorter final drive would make mince meat of a 996 Mk2 and a 997.1 if drag racing is your thing...

Slippydiff said: Dan911 said: As an owner I love mine. This is my second MK1 GT3, the first being a comfort with buckets. There is something special about a Clubbie, it feels raw almost race car like, especially having a front cage too. I bet it’s a great car on track. I’ve had mine around 4 years and my previous Comfort for around 6 years. I do feel like I’ve done my 996 GT3 time and am looking to try something else so mine will be for sale possibly in the next few months - 996.1 GT3, clubsport, Speed Yellow, Manthey K400 60,000 miles - massive history file too. The only car I’ve owned that came close was a Cayman R, you could feel Porsche were trying to make an R analog - reminded my a little of my 996. I hear not many clubsport’s came to the UK too, so rare car. Whichever 996 GT3 you end up with MK2 or MK1 you’ll love it I’m sure. Get out and drive one, you’ll be hooked. OP, buy this car and NEVER look back. Upgrade the various components as they fail or wear out. The seminal and last (an oxymoron if if ever there was one) truly analogue watercooled GT car. In a proper colour, and being a Clubsport, rare too. Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 3rd March 10:25 It does sound nice this one. I would always favour the RS though.

D.no said: Porsche911R said: I drive a fully modded 987.2 Spyder and a manual tweaked 991.2 GT3, plus other track focused brands. £50k does every thing possible you could wish for. Short final drive New diff clutch set of 3 way shocks lightweight battery lightweight seats full Inconel exhaust system refresh every bush, drop links, top mounts etc monoball the rear end. AP disks and endless pads all round. lightweight wheels cup steering wheel very easy to spend it. But the cars are old and don't drive like new what ever people say, and I hate PASM, and the gearing. I could not own a standard GT3 after having a 996GT3 and driving most others. I love mine (997.1 GT3) in completely standard form. Yes, it's old - which is precisely why I love it - It still feels like an analogue 911. I mostly drive mine with the PASM in it's firmer setting as it makes turn-in slightly sharper and more dependable with my particular setup, and driving style (ham-fisted!). Learning it's imperfections and foibles are what makes the ownership journey intoxicating for me, and the longer I own the car ,the more I learn, and the more it works its way into my affections. I had the car on a SORN for the last 3 months, and taxed it again on the 1st. It was the longest 3 months ever, but the drive on Sunday was utterly fabulous. As I reversed it into my garage afterwards I couldn't help but repeat the words "What a thing!" out loud. I don't care that much anymore about outright speed, and ability, and I love the fact that it's beginning to feel a bit like a classic car, albeit still very quick, and usable. Gearing is a non-issue for me, as I don't feel the need to red-line the engine everywhere to get enjoyment from the car. When the opportunity arises it's mega, but there's so much to enjoy as a whole in the way the car responds and feels, that the engine is a wonderful accompaniment, rather than the defining characteristic. I had a Boxster T last November for a couple of days as a courtesy car while having some warranty work undertaken on my GT3. On the bumpy B-roads back from the dealership it felt very planted, way quicker than it had any right to feel, and went about dissecting the road in an entirely fuss-free and entertaining manner. The steering was even ok. So, I had a major wobble! 2 days later, and I felt as though the Boxster had revealed all I was going to learn. Wonderful car though it is, for me it's a one-night stand, not a life partner. The main epiphany came when I got back into my GT3 though: It felt so small! Visibility was fantastic. More NVH. Control weightings were heavier, but the steering was delicate and talkative. I felt like there was less rubber bushing in the suspension. Less isolation. More mechanical. By the time I'd navigated the dealership speed bumps it just felt special, and it felt like a 911 - an old 911. It felt like home. My (rather long) 2p's worth, but we're all different. Enjoy whatever you decide to do. As I said some will love it some will hate it, a 997.1 with PASM on is a bobbing mess imo even on smooth tarmac !!! imo unusable ! The other guy fitting some KW's which if you know KW are mega hard spring rates and ruin the car on the road. the gearing is a pitter as I DO WANT to hit red line in 3rd on public roads and use the gear box, and have a bit more shove in 2nd gear out the tighter stuff. you say it's Mega for the very few times you can redline a GT3 in 3rd, I want it to be mega more of the time :-), to me the 996 and 997 is just frustrating stock, and I do wonder what people see in them for road use with oem gearing etc, I really did not like my 996 as red line in 3rd is quite high speeds and the cars NOT fast enough to get to those speeds inbetween bends ! that's just a fact of driving it. the cars a great car and I think the sweet spot is the 997.1 for the driver if the mods are done, nice power, better lighter engine than both the 996 and 997.2 bigger units. you don't have to spend £50k that's would just be my project, a working proper diff, some proper shocks and a short final drive would sort every thing really say £10k all in. and you can do that to the 6 Also but I like the 997's engine more, Porsche made some good worthwhile changes and you end up with circa 300bhp/ton which is a nice figure to have on the road. yes people will like the oem cars, I just don't to me they were very flawed to enjoy a big % of the time, right road right time yep mega, 98% of the time pretty crap lol

Cheburator mk2 said: I have a 35k Mk1 996.1 CS K400, which has been thoroghly re-worked by Manthey - it has the cup gears, cup synchros, cup final drive, cup diff plates, cup coffin arms, cup trust arms, cup ABS, cup shifter, cup cables and Mk2 brakes. It is trully wonderful on track. A bit less so on the road, unless I am out for a blat. It is the closest you would get to a road going race car from all the modern Porsches. Yet it has a working aircon and allegedly a radio, As for power - a Manthey-ed K400 with the shorter final drive would make mince meat of a 996 Mk2 and a 997.1 if drag racing is your thing... a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ?

lemmingjames said: Id suggest joining the owners club on Facebook, i know the 996.2 one is fairly active. The .2 market seems kinda active on the selling front, Ashgoods look to have sold their nice blue one and JZM have 'deposit taken' on the yellow one. I was tempted to sell mine but would need to return it to stock (ducktail, cage, non oem wheel colour, all cosmetic basically) Cheers i have actually just join requested Many tks for the replies. I can see Dans car mentioned on there. So the K400 conversion seems very popular i've noticed Was the Mk1 Club sport official factory designation ? Edited by Fanboy911 on Tuesday 3rd March 12:02

Porsche911R said: a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ? There were 28 official UK Clubsports. The car is a LHD example who's first owner was some bloke called Olaf, can't remember his surname, but he's supposed to well known in Porsche tuning/racing circles.

Fanboy911 said: Cheers i have actually just join requested Many tks for the replies. I can see Dans car mentioned on there. So the K400 conversion seems very popular i've noticed Was the Mk1 Club sport official factory designation ? Yes, Clubsport was an official factory designation. It provided a bolt in roll cage, a lightweight, single piece flywheel, a fire extinguisher, "Nomex" seat covers, harnesses, a battery cutout, centre console delete, and in the rare Mk1 Clubsport, door airbag deletion.

Slippydiff said: Yes, Clubsport was an official factory designation. It provided a bolt in roll cage, a lightweight, single piece flywheel, a fire extinguisher, "Nomex" seat covers, harnesses, a battery cutout, centre console delete, and in the rare Mk1 Clubsport, door airbag deletion. Tks. Any clue on pricing for a UK CS car with say 50k miles? Cheers

cayman-black said: It does sound nice this one. I would always favour the RS though. They're somewhat different price points. The Mk1 CS and RS will be THE ones to have at some point. A Mk1 CS with a Manthey K400 conversion is all the 996 you need for the road, I probably wouldn't even mess with the suspension, other than to ensure all the OE stuff is in rude health. The CS cage stiffens the shell nicely (and adds a certain sense of occasion to the interior) and the K400 conversion brings parity powerwise to the drivetrain, it also imbues the Mk1 engine with way more character, both from a power delivery and noise perspective. As a footnote, you don't actually need to fit the Manthey K400 conversion, as sourcing the correct complete exhaust system (I'd suggest the M & M item which Manthey use) and getting the engine remapped by the likes of Wayne Schofield, these two mods alone will produce the same hp gains as the K400 conversion, but at vastly reduced cost. As Dan's car already has the K400 conversion, it's a no brainer.

Fanboy911 said: Tks. Any clue on pricing for a UK CS car with say 50k miles? Cheers The market is soft currently, but it will firm up a bit (and I stress, a bit) over the next 2-3 months. I'd say it's a buyers market, but a Mk1 Clubsport in Speed Yellow is an all too rare car, that is has the well known and well regarded Manthey K400 conversion is a bonus (from my perspective).

Porsche911R said: .... a 997.1 with PASM on is a bobbing mess imo even on smooth tarmac !!! imo unusable ! Not sure how many you've driven (if more than a sample of 1, fair enough) but that's not my experience at all. Maybe I've just got used to (and enjoy) bobbing messes though Wouldn't want mine any other way.

Porsche911R said: £50k does every thing possible you could wish for. Short final drive New diff clutch set of 3 way shocks * lightweight battery * lightweight seats * full Inconel exhaust system * refresh every bush, drop links, top mounts etc monoball the rear end. AP disks and endless pads all round. * lightweight wheels * cup steering wheel * Very easy to spend it. But the cars are old and don't drive like new what ever people say. All items marked with an asterisk fall under the category of "Gilding the Lily", they'd no doubt make for a much improved track car, but for road use they're complete overkill (and I say that as the owner of a car that has most of them fitted ...) If the gearing grates (no pun intended), by all means fit a Cup CWP, but for the vast majority of road use owners, the gearing issue really is an internet myth and doesn't detract from the ownership/driving experience for the majority, unless of course you really do like driving around bouncing off the rev limiter all the time, which some do. No harm in that, but I suggest an S2000 would be the better choice. As Dr No puts it so perfectly, the engine in these cars is only part of the equation, it's not the sole raison d'etre, for sure it's a huge part of the car's appeal, but there's so much more to be enjoyed about them. To become focused solely, almost to the point of obsession on the gearing, rather misses the point of what are extraordinary cars.

D.no said: Porsche911R said: .... a 997.1 with PASM on is a bobbing mess imo even on smooth tarmac !!! imo unusable ! Not sure how many you've driven (if more than a sample of 1, fair enough) but that's not my experience at all. Maybe I've just got used to (and enjoy) bobbing messes though Wouldn't want mine any other way. Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads. Neither were gargae queens ...

Porsche911R said: a real CS ? ie one of the 27 UK cars ? I dunno - it has a working red cord to cut off the electrics under the bonnet, as well as no air bags in the doors, a full factory fitted Heigo cage, no centre console with another electrical cut off switch instead... it sounds like a bag o'nails at idle because it has a single mass flywheel and the Recaro buckets are covered in Nomex. It also sports M003 on the under bonnet sticker as well as Olaf Manthey as the first owner on the Fahrezeugbrief... He used the car for regularity rallying as well as to drive it around the one-way-toll-road-somewhere-in-the-Eifel... P.S. It's a LHD car, making it worth about 2p

Love mine (Gen 2 with surface transforms and cup diff). Not for everyone so try before you buy. The stock set-up is very firm and there is no electronic safety net (ABS aside) which means you have to be fully focused, particularly in the wet and with track-biased tyres. The way the engine revs out to the redline and the resultant sound is the standout highlight for me. Never heard complaints about the gearing before - that's a new one - total non-issue IMHO. Tyres make a big difference to the feel too - e.g. Cup2s are great for track but rob the car of that much needed compliance for road driving. These cars are getting on for 20 years old and are expensive to run (if maintained appropriately). Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Something to bear in mind. Lots of aftermarket options if you want to tailor/tweak the car to your needs.

I loved my 996.2GT3 - kept it for 13 years afterall. Not once did I think the gearing was an issue. Only when I started to read this forum did I discover that! It was always an event to drive, jump in straight after driving a modern, fastish normal car and it felt absolutely alive. Fantastic, feelsome steering, nice weighty clutch. Preferred the clutch action to my 991.2GT3 which is too light for my taste. The gearbox needed warming up but again unmatched 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th balls out on the right road. Yes, the suspension was too hard for everyday driving but it's not designed to be a daily driver. And again, I agree it would bob around and was easily deflected on a crap road but the fight was part of the fun. You want an easy drive, buy a Golf. I loved the tight fitting buckets too and no silly computer screens on the dash. Lovely car and some great memories but having said all of that, oddly, I still prefer my 991.2!

Slippydiff said: Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads. Neither were gargae queens ... I enjoyed that game of spot-the-difference. Thanks.

D.no said: I enjoyed that game of spot-the-difference. Thanks. First was Meteor, second Slate. Both were great cars, but possibly a little too accomplished for my liking. I'd have either back in a heartbeat :-)

Slippydiff said: Neither of mine were "bobbing messes" either, on the contrary, I found them a bit too planted, which in turn meant I found myself doing "silly" speeds on our A and B roads. I bet you did not have PASM on , !!! on those roads. you know I am right FFS it's annoying ;-) don't make me post all the time you said the same back in 2011 !!! there are loads of posts even Harris , mr fan boy fitted shocks to his 997.1 GT3, and you have shocks and a CUP final drive on yours, as do many serious owners inc keep it lit etc. NO myth about gearing or bouncy front ends on thse cars, only rose tinted specs ! Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd March 14:23

Porsche911R said: I bet you did not have PASM on , !!! on those roads. you know I am right FFS it's annoying ;-) You forget David, I've owned and spanked four 964 RS's on the road when they were cheap cars, any 996/997 GT3 feels compliant after a 964RS ... I'm sure PASM comes unstuck on track when pressed, but on the road it was none issue for me (couldn't say the same for the gearshift quality mind...) that of the 996's was far superior, and more in keeping with the other control weights IMO.

With you on the gear shift Old Boy. Very notchy until very warm in the 997.

lemmingjames said: ....The .2 market seems kinda active on the selling front, Ashgoods look to have sold their nice blue one and JZM have 'deposit taken' on the yellow one. That JZM yellow must be the most expensive Comfort sold in recent years. Just goes to show cars with the ‘right colour and specs’ always sell.

Steve Rance said: With you on the gear shift Old Boy. Very notchy until very warm in the 997. Nonsense! It's like stroking an angels thigh through bearing coated gossamer gloves. Oh alright - I'll give you that one. It's not ideal for the first hour, or so.. David, you're welcome to have a go in mine with the PASM on, or come along as a passenger. Bring a neck brace, and some spare fillings though just in case.

Slippydiff said: First was Meteor, second Slate. Both were great cars, but possibly a little too accomplished for my liking. I'd have either back in a heartbeat :-) Was Slate PTS? Can’t remember the last time I saw a 997 slate. Beautiful.

BrotherMouzone said: That JZM yellow must be the most expensive Comfort sold in recent years. Just goes to show cars with the ‘right colour and specs’ always sell. Your on the fb page arent you so youd have seen what I've been offered for mine. But does make it interesting that some stick around for ages and others go quickly. Though having 24k on the jzm possibly helped Also, why is it the same poster trying to derail the thread with chat about pasm. No one gives a f k as 996s dont have it

Porsche911R said: I bet you did not have PASM on , !!! on those roads. you know I am right FFS it's annoying ;-) don't make me post all the time you said the same back in 2011 !!! there are loads of posts even Harris , mr fan boy fitted shocks to his 997.1 GT3, and you have shocks and a CUP final drive on yours, as do many serious owners inc keep it lit etc. NO myth about gearing or bouncy front ends on thse cars, only rose tinted specs ! Calm down !! I think if you were to take the time to look back at my posts on the subject of the Gen 1 997 GT3 suspension, you'll see that I "considered" fitting 3 way Ohlins TTX's, but decided it would have been gilding the lily for road use use. I've no doubt their fitment for an oft used track car, would be highly beneficial, but for road use, I found both my Gen 1 997 GT3's more than capable of dealing with the UK's potholed and poorly-maintained roads. Furthermore I've consistently said I found my 997 GT3's a little bit too rounded and accomplished for road use (as I did the Cayman R), hence why I sold them. Put quite simply, at 57, my days of driving around our roads at 120 Leptons are over, there's little pleasure to be gained from driving at such speeds, and a lot to be lost. But whilst my perspective has changed with regards to my willingness to flout the law, my stance on the 997 GT3's suspension for road use has not. There's no ambiguity on my part, and never has been. The 996 GT3 suspension is another matter altogether (and yes, when pressing on, things can get a bit lively up front). If your modus operandi focuses on regularly driving on the UK's A & B roads (or on track) at speeds consistently over 100 Leptons, the fitment of some decent 3 way adjustable bump/rebound dampers is of benefit. For those happy to enjoy their cars sub 100 Leptons, a Mk1 or Mk2 996 GT3 with its OE suspension in rude health, will more than suffice. Though as I said earlier in this very thread, my preference is for the earlier car, due to it's slightly more compliant dampers and springs. I've nothing further to say on this specific matter, so I'll leave it at that.

BrotherMouzone said: Slippydiff said: First was Meteor, second Slate. Both were great cars, but possibly a little too accomplished for my liking. I'd have either back in a heartbeat :-) Was Slate PTS? Can’t remember the last time I saw a 997 slate. Beautiful. To be honest, I'm not sure, but the way the salesman at Porsche Swindon bigged it up, it could well have been. I think I preferred Meteor, it was a bit less "menacing" but very unobtrusive.

A way to soften the ride in the 996 is to fit supersport tyres as opposed the oem ps2 if road driving is more your thing

Slippydiff said: Put quite simply, at 57, my days of driving around our roads at 120 Leptons are over, there's little pleasure to be gained from driving at such speeds, and a lot to be lost. suspension in rude health, will more than suffice. Though as I said earlier in this very thread, my preference is for the earlier car, due to it's slightly more compliant dampers and springs. This where i'm at although not quite in age but not far off! All well and good Porsche offering a new 992 Turbo with 643HP but i dont live in Germany so pointless to me and where is the feel in that car ? Maybe i'm missing the point i dunno. Uk legal road speeds ish is what i want to enjoy in a car that feels alive in my hands. Old hands of course :-)

lemmingjames said: A way to soften the ride in the 996 is to fit supersport tyres as opposed the oem ps2 if road driving is more your thing Some of that improvement will be down to using the taller 35 profile rear tyres I suspect ? the rest due to the SuperSport's more modern construction. I swapped from Cup 2's to SuperSports on my 2nd 997 GT3, the difference was very marked. A lot quieter riding and compliant.

Not getting very far being accepted on the Facebook group. Anyone know the admins ?

Theres 2 of them, rick and Simon but they probably have lives and not on the net all the time You'll get a accepted eventually but dont have high hope

Porsche911R said: NO myth about gearing Just remind me again, how much less mph is the fabled manual 991.2gt3 doing at max revs in 2nd and 3rd gear compared to the same in the 6gt3.....?

I am a fan of the 996GT3 Mk1 ... I have chosen to keep as my main collectable a very low mileage RHD Clubsport which has in the last couple of years had all it's suspension replaced with new ... (it does become tired !) But I wouldn't dream of using this as a track car and for this have a well modified 981 GT4 ... As a classic road car my GT3 is plenty fast enough and it does feel very special in a pared back classic way !! Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 3rd March 19:24

PASM plus a DSC controller isn’t a bad half way house. In fact I’d say it a bit have your cake and eat it as you can go way stiffer on track and way softer on road. I’d recommend anyone trying one before you bin or worry about the stk suspension. Certainly for a road car. It’s a bit like “HI Def “ PASM.

Interestingly on my 964RS N-GT I had fitted front Cup dampers which were much more compliant than the standard dampers ... but all the suspension had been replaced when I bought the car. Regarding actively tracking old cars, a friend of mine had a hub carrier fail on his 964RS N-GT at Spa --- at one right hand corner later than the end of the Kemel straight ! (I forget the name). He ended up in the kitty litter so close to a concrete wall that he couldn't get out at the drivers side ... hence my chosen steed for modification being my GT4. Regarding the 996 Gen1 CS ... most prospective collectables have greater upward potential when unmodified from standard ... it is therefore an irritation that mine is missing it's front section of the roll cage which appears never to have been fitted. If Heigo, are they still in business ? It is also surprising (or maybe not) how much more compliant and feelsom refreshed suspension makes a car. The old 964RS was a firm ride, but not as firm as some of the old original cars now are. I remember some of the owners complaining that they were almost bounced off the road by the bobbing nose !

ttdan said: PASM plus a DSC controller isn’t a bad half way house. In fact I’d say it a bit have your cake and eat it as you can go way stiffer on track and way softer on road. I’d recommend anyone trying one before you bin or worry about the stk suspension. Certainly for a road car. It’s a bit like “HI Def “ PASM. If a DSC controller could be programmed to fix the dampers to two given settings (basically making them passive dampers) that would be perfect. I have found having switchable suspension useful but the active part (dampers constantly operating over a range of stiffness) less so, having learned from the good folk on this forum about how that affects the car's predictability at the limits on track. I enjoy these threads for how they flush out owners' experiences (with one notable exception ).

ChrisW. said: Interestingly on my 964RS N-GT I had fitted front Cup dampers which were much more compliant than the standard dampers ... but all the suspension had been replaced when I bought the car. Regarding actively tracking old cars, a friend of mine had a hub carrier fail on his 964RS N-GT at Spa --- at one right hand corner later than the end of the Kemel straight ! (I forget the name). He ended up in the kitty litter so close to a concrete wall that he couldn't get out at the drivers side ... hence my chosen steed for modification being my GT4. Regarding the 996 Gen1 CS ... most prospective collectables have greater upward potential when unmodified from standard ... it is therefore an irritation that mine is missing it's front section of the roll cage which appears never to have been fitted. If Heigo, are they still in business ? It is also surprising (or maybe not) how much more compliant and feelsom refreshed suspension makes a car. The old 964RS was a firm ride, but not as firm as some of the old original cars now are. I remember some of the owners complaining that they were almost bounced off the road by the bobbing nose ! Heigo is still in business, but I doubt that you can buy a front cage from them. Always worth sticking a wanted add on race cars direct or the S9/Facepalm/other forums. My friend bought (stole) Adrian Ong’s old Trigger’s Broom and TerryB on here was kind enough to sell him the missing front cage, which he had kept while being a subsequent owner of the car... As for tracking an old car - failure of that sort is extremely unlikely. I race two old Porsches which both had in excess of 200k on them before they were converted to race cars. They both have significantly bigger power outputs than a 996 GT3 and get driven way harder than a track day. No such worries about components failing from age. I also track my GT3 - it is SORNED - and gets trailered to TDs - if I spank it - so what - the insurance covers it and the agreed value is such that it would afford to rebuild it from scratch. As if all the 2.7RS and the 964RS that are for sale have always lived a life inside a cocoon?!

Strange there are still no pics on this thread ....

Zandvoort 2019 by LaSource Images , on Flickr Just get one of these. There is every variant of homologation and race car in that pic: 996.1 GT3 K400 996.2 GT3 996.2 GT3 K410 996.2 Manthey special (K410 plus more from Manthey catalog plus shorter gearbox) 996.2 GT3 RS 996 Cup car ...I guess it is missing a 996 RSR race car

braddo said: ttdan said: PASM plus a DSC controller isn’t a bad half way house. In fact I’d say it a bit have your cake and eat it as you can go way stiffer on track and way softer on road. I’d recommend anyone trying one before you bin or worry about the stk suspension. Certainly for a road car. It’s a bit like “HI Def “ PASM. If a DSC controller could be programmed to fix the dampers to two given settings (basically making them passive dampers) that would be perfect. I have found having switchable suspension useful but the active part (dampers constantly operating over a range of stiffness) less so, having learned from the good folk on this forum about how that affects the car's predictability at the limits on track. I enjoy these threads for how they flush out owners' experiences (with one notable exception ). In theory you could program it to do that. It’s active depending on G so a flat curve would probably achieve it. Not tried it.

LaSource said: Just get one of these. There is every variant of homologation and race car in that pic: 996.1 GT3 K400 996.2 GT3 996.2 GT3 K410 996.2 Manthey special (K410 plus more from Manthey catalog plus shorter gearbox) 996.2 GT3 RS 996 Cup car ...I guess it is missing a 996 RSR race car Pedant alert - GT3 R and GT3 RS race cars that preceded the RSR as well. Hunter here has one iirc.

isaldiri said: Pedant alert - GT3 R and GT3 RS race cars that preceded the RSR as well. Hunter here has one iirc. Alert noted

ttdan said: braddo said: ttdan said: PASM plus a DSC controller isn’t a bad half way house. In fact I’d say it a bit have your cake and eat it as you can go way stiffer on track and way softer on road. I’d recommend anyone trying one before you bin or worry about the stk suspension. Certainly for a road car. It’s a bit like “HI Def “ PASM. If a DSC controller could be programmed to fix the dampers to two given settings (basically making them passive dampers) that would be perfect. I have found having switchable suspension useful but the active part (dampers constantly operating over a range of stiffness) less so, having learned from the good folk on this forum about how that affects the car's predictability at the limits on track. I enjoy these threads for how they flush out owners' experiences (with one notable exception ). In theory you could program it to do that. It’s active depending on G so a flat curve would probably achieve it. Not tried it. Yep you can do it by setting all the values in the shock calibration table to being the same. Then it doesn’t matter if 0% is referenced or 100%, it will be the same value.

isaldiri said: Porsche911R said: NO myth about gearing Just remind me again, how much less mph is the fabled manual 991.2gt3 doing at max revs in 2nd and 3rd gear compared to the same in the 6gt3.....? you just don't understand driving do you ?, that's what I find odd about forum talk, do people drive these cars !!! not when you look at the miles on them it seems. they own them but have never driven them, a lot of people even say on here they don't break the speed limit !! so that's 60mph in the UK on a B road ! My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers. The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people. pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer. the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car. I know some have on here as they don't want to see those speed and it's not fun at any speed, again that's some forum myth line ! the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive. the 996 you change to 3rd and it's quite slow, you then are just a bit too fast to change back to 2nd , it's very much like the GT4, a leave it in 3rd car !! totally pointless as a diver to have fun in. A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that ! Cars can be slower and fun if gear right, my Golf CS is fun but I can get to 5th gear on the same bits of road as the gearing is so short in it. the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!! drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!! oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off. who knows. All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white. but goto the 981 section, it's the best car ever !! the Carrera T hype and the 981 Spyder hype is just stupid !!! It's just the GT3 hype has been going on much longer and I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with. most R owners seem to have come from older GT3 backgrounds and have enjoyed the swap. not all but a lot of R owners. I still fancy my 997.1 GT3 project one day but letting go of the manual 991.2 GT3 is a very hard thing to do. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 4th March 09:33

Porsche911R said: you just don't understand driving do you ?, that's what I find odd about forum talk, do people drive these cars !!! not when you look at the miles on them it seems. they own them but have never driven them, a lot of people even say on here they don't break the speed limit !! so that's 60mph in the UK on a B road ! My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers. The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people. pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer. the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car. I know some have on here as they don't want to see those speed and it's not fun at any speed, again that's some forum myth line ! the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive. the 996 you change to 3rd and it's quite slow, you then are just a bit too fast to change back to 2nd , it's very much like the GT4, a leave it in 3rd car !! totally pointless as a diver to have fun in. A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that ! Cars can be slower and fun if gear right, my Golf CS is fun but I can get to 5th gear on the same bits of road as the gearing is so short in it. the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!! drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!! oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off. who knows. All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white. but goto the 981 section, it's the best car ever !! the Carrera T hype and the 981 Spyder hype is just stupid !!! It's just the GT3 hype has been going on much longer and I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with. most R owners seem to have come from older GT3 backgrounds and have enjoyed the swap. not all but a lot of R owners. I still fancy my 997.1 GT3 project one day but letting go of the manual 991.2 GT3 is a very hard thing to do. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 4th March 09:33 And breathe ... Are you the same individual who preached some years ago, that getting caught speeding was now far too risky because the penalties were to be means tested ?? I thought so ... Same old, same old David. The only thing consistent about your diatribes, is their inconsistency. Quelle surprise.

DK’s first sentence did generate a genuine guffaw though, such was the witless irony, so he’s got at least that much value as a contributor here.

I've never found the gearing of a 996 GT3 an issue because I never drive my road cars anywhere near its engine or chassis limits. On saying that, its an easy and relatively cheap fix with a shorter final drive. A good upgrade on the 996GT3 is a cup diff and final drive. The 996 diff is mechanical and much better than the 997 unit which has an electrical element to. Personally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement.

Porsche911R said: you just don't understand driving do you ?, that's what I find odd about forum talk, do people drive these cars !!! not when you look at the miles on them it seems. they own them but have never driven them, a lot of people even say on here they don't break the speed limit !! so that's 60mph in the UK on a B road ! Nah bro, all the old cars are having the mythical refresh so it keeps them off the roads as we await pixies and fairys to make the parts Porsche911R said: My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers. The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people. Whats the point of having a redline at 9k and not using it, or even just tickling it? Porsche911R said: pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! Weird, mine manages to find 6th gear quite easily, if you couldnt get out of 3rd and it took 20 seconds for your to rev up enough to warrant a gear change, maybe yours was abit f ked? Of course, one would never suggest you was scared to bury the throttle to get to the change quicker Porsche911R said: VERY frustrating to drive and then a bit dull, when you do find a longer straight the car cannot cope at 120mph with UK bumps. but that's another issue not for your answer. Are you advocating that we should break the NSL by doing double to find faults with a car on a bumpy road? One day, maybe ill reach driving god status where i dont have to take into account bumps/dips/chamber changes, scan the road for said obstacles and be able to lay a 3d like grid of the road via the eyeball even around corners. But then ill be a robot and driving will become dull Porsche911R said: the 991.2 you pull out a 2nd gear bend, you are changing to 3rd ,4th even, YOU COVER GROUND FASTER IN A SHORTER DISTANCE, yes you are doing daft speeds >120 mph comes up quite often in the 991.2 GT3 140 mph even, if you don't see or want to see those speed sell the car. How would you know this? Are you tracking the car regularly? Porsche911R said: the point is the cars faster so you get to change gear as the car hits faster speeds between bends, that's involving as you then really do have to brake more due to going so fast, and the torque out of any bend gets the back end moving every single time, it's a fun car to drive. If you used more of the redline, you wouldnt have to change gear so much Porsche911R said: A short final drive would at a guess, (as I have not driven a CUP final drive car) transform it as you might see >6k revs then in 3rd in the UK B roads of joy. And serious owners all on here have fitted one !! funny that ! Think the 'serious' owners that do that are more track focussed, i could poll the 996.2 Owners Group if you like that has a mix of people in or are you suggesting that we're not serious owners if we dont want to go down the track slag route? Porsche911R said: the 996GT3 was frustrating the GT4 a bit dull, both for the same reasons, the difference was the 996GT3 had that magic engine which sadly you don't get to play with for 98% driving !!! By the sounds of it, you dont use 20% of your engine so whats the point in having the car? Porsche911R said: drive a Ferrari and you are knocking up and down the box, INVOLVING for an auto as you are doing some thing !!! Which Ferrari? Porsche911R said: oem GT3 owners and it upsets most when I say it, wear rose tinted specs either that or they just like the idea of owning one and potter about it in showing off. who knows.[/qoute] I thought that was the reserve of the newer GT3's, hence the Overs Market and low mileage cars for sale? Porsche911R said: All i know is what I have posted is the real truth about driving the cars and I don't get why others say black is white. You should have a youtube channel, dressed up as the masked magician where you can talk about these driving truths. No point you being the Stig as it doesnt talk Im sure any potential purchaser of any car doing their research will be aware of any foibles a car might have, especially a car thats 15 years old but nothing a test drive wouldnt fix

Steve Rance said: I've never found the gearing of a 996 GT3 an issue because I never drive my road cars anywhere near its engine or chassis limits. On saying that, its an easy and relatively cheap fix with a shorter final drive. A good upgrade on the 996GT3 is a cup diff and final drive. The 996 diff is mechanical and much better than the 997 unit which has an electrical element to. Personally I find the 996GT3 the pinacle of the analogue water cooled 911. Still nothing to touch it for reward and engagement. Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know s t about driving

Dammit said: DK’s first sentence did generate a genuine guffaw though, such was the witless irony, so he’s got at least that much value as a contributor here. It would appear his medication ran out on Monday ? He seems to have worked himself up into quite a lather over the last 36 hours. I imagine he'll drag himself away from his keyboard, then climb down off his high horse and head to the dispensary either today or tomorrow. Once he starts back on his meds, they'll kick in within 24-48 hours. Then all will be sweetness and light once again

Must admit I am mystified by the 996GT3 hate. Seems to me most current and ex owners love them. I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too.

lemmingjames said: Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know s t about driving To be fair to David, he never said that. to be honest I love his enthusiasm and on balance agree with him more than disagree. He will be the first to say that he'd love a 996GT3 with some decent dampers and a shorter final drive. The thing about a 996GT3 is how infinately adjustable the chassis is and how easy it is to change the personality of the car by a geo change. Like any thoroughbred racing car it is extremely sensitive to geometry and set up changes. The great thing about that is that if you know what you are doing you can create exactly what you want from the car. The downside to that is that clumbsy set ups can feel horrible. There are a lot of sweets in the adjustable 'sweety jar' on these cars and they call for a lot of understanding. The trick is to know exactly what you want from the car when you have a geo applied. Whether you want a 'blunt' or a 'sharp' car, a good tuner will give you a balance - which is the key thing

browngt3 said: ... I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too... I know, the Mezger is such a tractable unit, and it isn't all about absolute speed... Heck, a new Golf CS is quicker, but the overall experience is dull as dishwater in comparison... Even the new 911s are heading that way to a large degree - I had a decent go in a mate's one of the last 991.2 GTS ever produced - mentally fast and capable, but it left me totally cold in terms of driving enjoyment. I may as well buy a new M4 on 0% APR PCP

browngt3 said: Must admit I am mystified by the 996GT3 hate. Seems to me most current and ex owners love them. I agree on some poorly surfaced and very tight B roads there are better choices. Most of the time, however, I thoroughly enjoyed mine. With plenty of working the gears and revs too. I don't think there's widespread hate for the 996 GT3's driving dynamics (the looks are definitely divisive, but that's another story altogether) Our learned friends criticism of the car for it's poor manners on bumpy B roads rather misses the point of the car. It's a low, stiffly damped/sprung car that was primarily designed to enable the manufacturer to go circuit racing. Any expectations he harboured that it would be adept at dealing with our own, very unique, bumpy B roads here in the UK, should have been tempered with a healthy dose of common sense. If a high speed passage across bumpy B roads is his thing, a 996 turbo with its 4wd and more compliant suspension bushing and damping/springing, would have been far better suited to his needs back in 2003-4 (or an M3 CSL with its wonderfully judged, long-travel, compliant suspension) but of course he found fault (as did many) with it's SMG transmission. As the old adage goes "There's no pleasing some folk" ... But there's another old adage "Empty barrels make the most noise", this particular empty barrel has been around many years, and is without a doubt the noisiest. It does occasionally get tedious, but is best ignored, though occasionally it falls to the likes of Steve R and others on here to muffle its worst excesses. I must say, I do find the idea that you need to be bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear to really have fun on the road , very strange indeed. If that IS the case, I must have been doing something wrong all these years ...

Porsche911R said: isaldiri said: Porsche911R said: NO myth about gearing Just remind me again, how much less mph is the fabled manual 991.2gt3 doing at max revs in 2nd and 3rd gear compared to the same in the 6gt3.....? Blah Blah Blah I believe the short answer is here: From memory that would be 2-3 mph different? 5 at the most? https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r...

Porsche911R said: Lots of garbage but in particular.. you just don't understand driving do you ? pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! you take 20 seconds to get through 3rd gear in a 996 gt3 and you try to lecture people about driving.....? I mean.. seriously....? Porsche911R said: I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with. Self awareness is a virtue. try it sometimes.

isaldiri said: Porsche911R said: Lots of garbage but in particular.. you just don't understand driving do you ? pull out a bend in 2nd gear in the 996GT3 you change to 3rd you wait 20 seconds as the car slowly gains speed you get to about 6k and guess what the next bend arrives, you never get to the magic in 3rd gear, most cases you are too fast to drop to 2nd so it stays in 3rd !!!!! you take 20 seconds to get through 3rd gear in a 996 gt3 and you try to lecture people about driving.....? I mean.. seriously....? Porsche911R said: I get frustrated by the false information or even lies people come out with. Self awareness is a virtue. try it sometimes. wooooosssshhhhh, you yet again miss the point, I give up, you clearly don't drive these as intended, 5, 10 seconds 20 seconds it's a moot figure in the context of the full picture how the car ,gears and BHP are all relative.. I don't own a GT4 or 996 GT3 atm to time it to the milli second. If you drive them you know, if you talk on forums you don't. next you will be telling us Mass makes no odds on braking distance , o wait !!!! It takes about what ? 25 seconds for a 996 GT3 to get to 150mph the 991.2 GT3 takes only 16 seconds to do the same. post the graph back :-) in a a few hours that will keep you busy a bit.

This graph?

Steve Rance said: lemmingjames said: Thats all well and good Steve, but as David has pointed out in the past, you dont know s t about driving To be fair to David, he never said that. to be honest I love his enthusiasm and on balance agree with him more than disagree. He will be the first to say that he'd love a 996GT3 with some decent dampers and a shorter final drive. The thing about a 996GT3 is how infinately adjustable the chassis is and how easy it is to change the personality of the car by a geo change. Like any thoroughbred racing car it is extremely sensitive to geometry and set up changes. The great thing about that is that if you know what you are doing you can create exactly what you want from the car. The downside to that is that clumbsy set ups can feel horrible. There are a lot of sweets in the adjustable 'sweety jar' on these cars and they call for a lot of understanding. The trick is to know exactly what you want from the car when you have a geo applied. Whether you want a 'blunt' or a 'sharp' car, a good tuner will give you a balance - which is the key thing This, it's just the normal forum warriors yet again spreading fake news for effect which gets nasty and is a shame.

lemmingjames said: Porsche911R said: My car is stupid fast over a 996 and I mean night and day fast, slow vs a 765LT these days, but fast vs NA porkers. The car punches though the gears, and the box is shorter of course and the 9k thing is not really used bar showing people. What's the point of having a redline at 9k and not using it, or even just tickling it? Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not..... the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear. On track because it's a manual the 9k limit gives you options to stay in gear and not loose out on power as it don't drop off like most cars do even the 991.1 GT3 drops in power. could save you a gear change pre bend or just allows you to keep it there with both hands on the wheel. works on the road also, you might hit 9k in 2nd gear on a exit to a bend and want to wait to change to 3rd. As I keep saying, forum comments by non owners who really don't have a scooby or have driven these cars I'll skip the rest of your points as they all relate to me not hitting 9k every gear change ! But I have now explained why that's the case :-)

Porsche911R said: wooooosssshhhhh, you yet again miss the point, I give up, you clearly don't drive these as intended, 5, 10 seconds 20 seconds it's a moot figure in the context of the full picture how the car ,gears and BHP are all relative.. I don't own a GT4 or 996 GT3 atm to time it to the milli second. It takes about what ? 25 seconds for a 996 GT3 to get to 150mph the 991.2 GT3 takes only 16 seconds to do the same. Your comparison above about time taken to get to speed X is irrelevant and in no way makes your prior claim about 20 seconds needed after changing from 2nd gear to get to 6k rpm any less bloody stupid. That's not timing things to the millsecond, that's simply engaging your brain before typing out more nonsense As far as 'driving as intended' that you constantly claim you do compared to everyone else - you do realise that down hangar straight at Silverstone (well you won't because you don't track your car) there's maybe about 10-15mph maxmimum difference between a 991.2 gt3 and a 996 gt3 if both are driven competently before having to brake for stowe? It's not exactly night and day as you are suggesting in your post. Porsche911R said: If you drive them you know, if you talk on forums you don't. Which explains your many rants about all manner of things so at least you've got that right....broken clocks and all apply I suppose.

Slippydiff said: I must say, I do find the idea that you need to be bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear to really have fun on the road , very strange indeed. If that IS the case, I must have been doing something wrong all these years ... as I state above there is no need, but the older GT3's really do come alive above 6k revs , or 5700 I cannot remember the addiction rpm figure where the magic happens. No point owning a mezger and not having the full experience, it's a high reving unit. so very unexciting below 5k. it's that simple that getting a 996 GT3 or 997 to hit that magic for me was too few and far between, it's pretty much that simple. The cars pretty slow as I have just pointed out a few threads back that you never see red line in 3rd , AlI I remember about it was waiting and waiting and really never having the magic often enough unless you want to drive like a t t on A roads which is pointless. As Steve R said an easy fix with a cup final drive and some damper for road mannors but not many people do it and say black is white all is fine. Yes I drive a bit too fast in my GT3, but what's too fast these days when the limit is 60mph ! you get a ticket for 66mph and the futures bleek with black box's fitted to new cars from 2021 or what ever the date is.

Porsche911R said: Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not..... the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear. If you are aiming to maximize acceleration you change at 9k - not at 8250 or just a bit above.

isaldiri said: Porsche911R said: Do you know what the 9k redline is helpful for ? seems not..... the 991.2 makes peak power at 8250rpm and if you change at that or just above it drops you in a nice place in the next gear. If you are aiming to maximize acceleration you change at 9k - not at 8250 or just a bit above. I am maximizing road/track enjoyment, lap times I don't give a s t about. I am GOING to do some tests on rpm though this spring so will be interesting to see what if any changes changing at 8300 ve 8900 is in the REAL world. seat of the bum and on track the car feels and drives nicer changing about 8300/8500rpm, this drops you at MAX torque of 460NM time and time again and feels strong as a ox and rewarding. I'll stay in gear as I have stated coming upto a bend or mid bend and the 9k give you that option to do as much. I am taking a stab in the dark here that changing at 8900 will be slower you have lost a ton load or Torque(100 nm infact) and the BHP is falling off, you are then put back in a falling torque band. if it's quicker the seat of the bum don't agree. And I drive for enjoyment/involvement. I know you love graphs and maths but noting is like doing REAL times and distance graph with a vbox. time and some real results will prove a point either way, I'll make sure I post them up. The issue is the car picks up so bloody fast @ 8k I might have to get some shift lights fitted. watching revs or trying to pick a tone , doing the flat s t and changing gear is all very INVOLVING, over pressing a microswitch or worst like most leave the PDK cars in full auto mode. So the debate on shift points will have to wait if you interested what's fastest, I am going to post FACTs on that point.

anonymous said: [redacted] lets have it on record what your thoughts about it are as a non owner of these cars.

Jesus, this is getting tedious, 911R... Pretty much every thread that you have joined and offered an often ill-founded and subjective opinion on has turned into a mess. You remind me of a guy on a E46 M3 Facepalm group that I frequent. He did not gel with his car and sold his E46 M3 because it was s t (his words) and bought a 335d instead. Apparently, the 335d can sort out the COVID19 problem, we were told... Now, normally you would expect the said member to leave the group and keep his opinion to himself or I guess to join a 335d afficionados group. But no, instead, every time an E46 M3 prospective buyer joins the group with questions, that d head is there to share his opinion how s t as a concept the E46 M3 and how much better the OP would be if he buys an E9x 335d... I am all for pluralism and freedom of expression having grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, but sometimes, just sometimes, a little bit of self-censorship can go a long way... Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Wednesday 4th March 16:14

Porsche911R said: I am maximizing road/track enjoyment, lap times I don't give a s t about. I am GOING to do some tests on rpm though this spring so will be interesting to see what if any changes changing at 8300 ve 8900 is in the REAL world. seat of the bum and on track the car feels and drives nicer changing about 8300/8500rpm, this drops you at MAX torque of 460NM time and time again and feels strong as a ox and rewarding. I'll stay in gear as I have stated coming upto a bend or mid bend and the 9k give you that option to do as much. I am taking a stab in the dark here that changing at 8900 will be slower you have lost a ton load or Torque(100 nm infact) and the BHP is falling off, you are then put back in a falling torque band. if it's quicker the seat of the bum don't agree. And I drive for enjoyment/involvement. I know you love graphs and maths but noting is like doing REAL times and distance graph with a vbox. time and some real results will prove a point either way, I'll make sure I post them up. The issue is the car picks up so bloody fast @ 8k I might have to get some shift lights fitted. watching revs or trying to pick a tone , doing the flat s t and changing gear is all very INVOLVING, over pressing a microswitch or worst like most leave the PDK cars in full auto mode. So the debate on shift points will have to wait if you interested what's fastest, I am going to post FACTs on that point. given you took 20 seconds to get to 6k rpm after changing from 2nd gear in a 6gt3, taking any of your so called facts or test results at face value is going to need a massive dose of salt.....

Wow..... Should we not get back on track for the OP? 996 GT3................................

I love my 996 gt3,the gearing is perfect.

anonymous said: [redacted] Thought you would not give an answer. No surprise.

The 996GT3 should in my view be looked at in the context of it's succession to the 993RS ... Please don't pick me up on minor numerical differences ... this is all from memory ! The 996 Gen1 GT3 was the proof of the water cooling of the Mezger engine. (The 959 had water cooled cylinder heads). We all know that the non GT water cooled engine was to become a real mess. The Gen1 GT3 3.6 produced 360bhp at 7600 rpm and 273 ft lbs torque at 5300 ? The 993RS maxed out at 300 bhp at 6800 ? rpm and 250 ft lbs torque at the same 5300 ?? The Gen1 Gt3 was reaching 100 mph in under 10 seconds and reached more then 190mph ... the 993RS was probably 12 seconds to 100 and reached 178 ?? And the Gen1 set the scene for the substantially lightened Gen2 engine with 381 bhp at 8200 rpm and similar torque ... It was a proof of concept and an engineering tour de force ... tactile, characterful .. and re-setting the Worlds expectation of what a racing car should be ... GT3 Cup / GT3R / GT3RS / RSR / etc. This was 20 years ago ! 2.7RS + 20 years = 964RS + 993RS : 993RS + 5 years = 996 GT3 : 996GT3 + 20 years = 992 GT3. And we are still comparing the 996GT3 on equal terms to cars that are only a few years old ! The only thing we can say about the new cars is that the many versions are hair splitting in their differences, faster (too fast ?), arguably less involving for the aspiring skilled driver rather than "pilot", are more likely to get you into trouble with the law, and are built to encourage dissatisfaction the moment the next model arrives. Where is the class in this ? The 996GT3 Gen1 was truly in class of it's own, just like the 2.7RS and arguably the 964RS (... even more so than the 993RS) IMHO. Edited by ChrisW. on Wednesday 4th March 20:43

ChrisW. said: The 996 Gen1 GT3 was the proof of the water cooling of the Mezger engine. (The 959 had water cooled cylinder heads). The gt1 race car was water-cooled I believe.

LaSource said: Strange there are still no pics on this thread .... Once upon a time when i used to drive and clean it; Single seat Racer bro, because Race Car Always reminds me of Toad from Danger Mouse for some unknown reason How it looks now;

isaldiri said: The gt1 race car was water-cooled I believe. That would be logical ... there were 993 based and 996 based variants of the GT1 ... built '96 and '97 ... I had never considered owning one of those ... though I did own and drive a 2002 GT3R ALMS car A long time ago when they could be had for £120k I did think about a friends 959, but the prospective cost of maintenance and possible repair leant me towards the simple but effective 964RS ...

The duck tail does look nice ... !

ChrisW. said: The duck tail does look nice ... ! Yeah it does, took years of badgering rpm to make me one but got there in the end. Porsche should put the duck on the touring gt3s

Very, very lovely that. Ducktails work so well on the 996/997 shape

I can offer a perspective from long term ownership (15+ years) of my mk1 996.  And with owning more modern Porsche.  Many other cars have come and gone but the GT3 has remained.  A keeper. In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible.  With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking.  I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely.  But somehow a bit contrived. The GT3 engine feels organic.  Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it.  Everything about the car runs true to this thought. The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it.  As something to drive for 6-12 months  and then move  on, it may not be the perfect choice.  But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in.  It gets under your skin.  It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working.  The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero. Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt.  Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced.  Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate. Its  hard to explain.  You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within.  Doesn't know what you know.  Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in. Edited by Singh911 on Wednesday 4th March 23:48 Edited by Singh911 on Thursday 5th March 00:36

I love my 996.2 - I've had 2, both comforts with buckets. Black one was on refurbed OE dampers current is modified with RSS bits, cup diff and Ohlins R/T. On a big track they're wonderful things and if you're not a douche fine in the wet as well. My old man had a 997.2 Clubbie with Surface transforms and a 964 RS the old 996 really feels the sweet spot between the two. And whats more it'll knock out 35mpg on the jaunt to Spa or the Ring - what more do you want. Yeah so like LaSource I am a massive 996 GT3 fan.

LaSource said: Strange there are still no pics on this thread .... I did try to post a couple but keep getting a 403 FORBIDDEN message on one browser, and 'iFrame loading' on another for some reason

Sandy59 said: I did try to post a couple but keep getting a 403 FORBIDDEN message on one browser, and 'iFrame loading' on another for some reason Morning Sandy, I hope you’re well ? Host your images here : https://imgur.com/ Press the New Post tab. Hit the browse tab. Find the image you wish to upload and press the open tab. The image will take a couple of seconds to upload. When it's completed, hover your cursor over the image and in the top right hand corner it will bring up a small downward facing arrow. Hover the the cursor over this and it will bring up a Get share links tab. Click on this and then copy the BBCode (forums) link and paste it into your post on here.

Singh911 said: I can offer a perspective from long term ownership (15+ years) of my mk1 996.  And with owning more modern Porsche.  Many other cars have come and gone but the GT3 has remained.  A keeper. In more modern Porsche, the speed is more apparent more accessible.  With the right trick exhaust, the sound in the more modern cars is louder, more attention seeking.  I'm thinking now of my 981 Spyder - which sounds lovely.  But somehow a bit contrived. The GT3 engine feels organic.  Less of a "product", more of a statement a reference point for how good cars can be if a manufacturer has the wherewithall and go ahead to produce it.  Everything about the car runs true to this thought. The GT3 demands and gets better the more time and effort you invest in it.  As something to drive for 6-12 months  and then move  on, it may not be the perfect choice.  But if you want to take the time to learn how to drive it properly, you realise there are so many layers to peel off and revel in.  It gets under your skin.  It makes you a better driver. They way it sounds, how you use its weight transfer, the sensation of that weight transfer, it's fully transparent you feel it working.  The way you lean on it in corners, steer it on the throttle, - the way you trail brake You do that and those moments get locked in your memory, you think " by God this is good". It feels like no other car I've driven. At idle (let alone at 7k+) nothing else sounds like it. Makes you feel like a hero. Not overpowered, nor under - just right. Other cars simply feel blunt.  Quicker maybe, more immediately reveal themselves, feel less nuanced.  Rare is the car that feels more tactile,adjustable, intimate. Its  hard to explain.  You feel somehow that the general motoring world does not know about these cars and the magic that lurks within.  Doesn't know what you know.  Maybe can't be conveyed until someone is inclined to join in. Edited by Singh911 on Wednesday 4th March 23:48 Edited by Singh911 on Thursday 5th March 00:36 May i ask if your car has the Manthey k400?

anonymous said: [redacted] none of that makes sense,! what I am asking you is, are you on board with fastest is changing at 9k like most people say and will die for on a forum or will the car actually be faster changing at 8300rpm. I want it on record which you think. A simple yes the cars will be fastest changing at 9k will be ample at this time. Or no changing gear early is faster. It's a very simple question to answer.

Fanboy911 said: May i ask if your car has the Manthey k400? If I may but in... I had set my heart on a LHD... Thus I searched in Europe... When looking for my 996.1 I tried first a one owner from new SY CS on about 30k in Geneva. History folder about 2" thick with receipts from dealers in Germany and Switzerland, right down to the expanding rivets for the front splitter and wiper blades. Tight as a drum, it rode beautifully on a set of fresh dampers. It was tactile and engaging, but to be perfectly honest, the engine while good, did leave me a bit cold. I am also a massive E46 M3 fanboy, and I have to say, the standard Mezger (if you can call something as special as a Mezger, standard) kind of lacked the fireworks found in a good S54B32. Then I travelled to NW Germany to drive my current car. Oh my God! The minute the Mezger hit 5750 and the VarioCam ramped up, and CF airbox began to sing I knew I had to buy it. DId not even haggle. Paid the full asking there and then, in a lay bay off a rural road next to Stade. There is something super addictive about the manic nature of the engine which is imbued by the the CF airbox, exhaust and a remap. A K400 conversion makes an already great car an amazing one...

My old car (twice!) - a special thing!

Lovely car that, in pics and in person.

Great car that, its obviously had a lot of money invested in it!

Love that car. Only GT i've driven so far. YK really poured money into it

Stedman said: Love that car. Only GT i've driven so far. YK really poured money into it Ah. I thought I recognised that car. In general, nice people keep nice cars. Shared my garage at Oulton RS day with him once, top bloke.

YK was a top man (god rest his sole) - whoever buys it must keep that registration mark on the car, it needs to be a contractual obligation! It's a super interesting car, I've driven and owned a few 996 GT3's over the years and the engine in that car is, by some margin, the most aggressive sounding and free revving. Totally stock but made RS power on a dyno a few years back - I'm suspicious that as one of the very last 996's, it might have had an engine originally designated for the RS. The shorter final drive only improves the experience, but with a longer 6th gear (which makes it about stock MPH/1000RPM) it's the best of both worlds.

Thanks all - that's my car (YK55 RED) for sale. I'd also love for the next person to keep the plate on the car! I've just attached a lot of the paperwork documenting the very thorough service history to the ad now if anyone's interested: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20684780

That reminds me, I need an eye test.

identti said: Thanks all - that's my car (YK55 RED) for sale. I'd also love for the next person to keep the plate on the car! I've just attached a lot of the paperwork documenting the very thorough service history to the ad now if anyone's interested: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20684780 It's great to see a 'real' and thorough service history like that. Plenty on here knew the car anyway, but that's exactly what any discerning purchaser ought to be looking for on a car of this age and type.

Digga said: It's great to see a 'real' and thorough service history like that. Plenty on here knew the car anyway, but that's exactly what any discerning purchaser ought to be looking for on a car of this age and type. Agreed. Plenty don't provide it and then wonder why the punter is asking the (inevitable!) questions.

Stedman said: Digga said: It's great to see a 'real' and thorough service history like that. Plenty on here knew the car anyway, but that's exactly what any discerning purchaser ought to be looking for on a car of this age and type. Agreed. Plenty don't provide it and then wonder why the punter is asking the (inevitable!) questions. As we've all said, countless times before, on a car this age: OPC only service is a worry, because wit the best will in the world, 996/7 cars are well beyond the standard check lists and schedules Lots of jobs an OPC would never tackle need to have been addressed (like the coolant hoses on this car) Good service record trump low miles, unless we're literally talking delivery miles

Reduced to £73k. I guess the mileage is putting people off.

identti said: Thanks all - that's my car (YK55 RED) for sale. I'd also love for the next person to keep the plate on the car! I've just attached a lot of the paperwork documenting the very thorough service history to the ad now if anyone's interested: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20684780 Sold?

Erm...yes it's become a bit of a boomerang and is now back in my care! I had a few interested parties contact me about the car, and I said they really should be buying it.. they didn't so I did as I just think finding these cars is getting so tricky now, and I know that cars' history, what's been spent on it and Rob has done a commendable job keeping it in fine fettle. No immediate use case for it, so it is likely to get tucked away until next year but I'm very happy to have it back.

simon clark said: Erm...yes it's become a bit of a boomerang and is now back in my care! I had a few interested parties contact me about the car, and I said they really should be buying it.. they didn't so I did as I just think finding these cars is getting so tricky now, and I know that cars' history, what's been spent on it and Rob has done a commendable job keeping it in fine fettle. No immediate use case for it, so it is likely to get tucked away until next year but I'm very happy to have it back. The right decision!

Looks lovely - https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/996... - but fully priced?

NeilTB said: Looks lovely - https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/996... - but fully priced? I do like Polar, but it's not even a Clubsport. So today at RPMT's weekly sales meeting, someone said "Let's play pluck a number out of thin air and see who bites ..."

I mean it’s silver and not a Clubsport, mental money.

I think the cleaner may have accidentally misaligned the pricing dartboard.

A red clubbie on pccbs went for 1/4m usd last night, think mid 20k mileages

Trash_panda said: A red clubbie on pccbs went for 1/4m usd last night, think mid 20k mileages LHD and different market imho, apples and pears.

If its not worth £145k, then what? They are certainly all going north of £100k now.

mollytherocker said: If its not worth £145k, then what? They are certainly all going north of £100k now. It'll be like the recent covid bubble with cars going nuts, this time it wont be out of money saved but to stop the government piggies raiding your bank account for tax but a different conversation I know rennworks intend to drive theirs but would be interesting to see what they'd get for their restoration one

NeilTB said: Looks lovely - https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/996... - but fully priced? Silly money. Dealers can see the tide is high and are trying to set the market so it feels like the new norm. For the sake of actual drivers, I hope people stop drinking the cool aid.

Looks good value compared to this: https://www.ashgood.co.uk/vehicle-details/used-por...

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2005-porsche-9... Another on collecting cars at the moment

PaulJC84 said: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2005-porsche-9... Another on collecting cars at the moment 16,090 miles between the last two services in 2021 and 2026? Hope that's an error/omission of service records.

Digga said: 16,090 miles between the last two services in 2021 and 2026? Hope that's an error/omission of service records. He claimed it had been serviced at RPM but has failed to upload any proof.

I was keeping an eye on it inc fees went for £105k. You could have bought the JZM yellow GT3 with half the mileage and PCCB for a bit less a few weeks ago.

IMI A said: I was keeping an eye on it inc fees went for £105k. You could have bought the JZM yellow GT3 with half the mileage and PCCB for a bit less a few weeks ago. I hear what you're saying, but you also could have bought Scuderias, Speciales, SLSs, 997.2 RSs and 996 GT2s for about £50k less a few weeks ago as well. RPM have just listed a non-Clubsport for sale at £145k. Lower mileage, admittedly. For disclosure I was bidding last night, but stopped at £85k. On reflection, this could be the last time a decent(ish) Clubsport will be bought for around £100k. With the exception of 991.1 non-RSs, all other GT3s are commanding over £100k, and I don't desire to own any of those. So at £100k, is it bad value just because there were cheaper ones for sale a few weeks ago? Certainly a confusing situation. Fair play to the winning bidder and congrats to the seller. Wish I'd bought one from Paragon a year ago at £80k which they had for sale seemingly forever!

Whats driving this new price boom across these markets though? Covid period was obvious but then things started to drop or they never did really?

Trash_panda said: Whats driving this new price boom across these markets though? Covid period was obvious but then things started to drop or they never did really? FOMO....

FOMO is usually the result of something else. There must be some recent and sudden driver. What is it? This is a rapid rise in a short space of time.

Trash_panda said: Whats driving this new price boom across these markets though? Covid period was obvious but then things started to drop or they never did really? I feel it's a combination of things: - like isaldiri says, FOMO (in particular combined with the "they're never making them like that again" mindset) - the fact that the generation who had posters of these cars on their walls are now coming into money - a lot of people pulling their money out of traditional investments classes like BTLs, liking the idea of parking their money in a tangible CGT-free asset which they can also enjoy from time to time - and for the 996 GT3 in particular, it can be considered as the start of the modern day GT car lineage Not to mention that a base spec Carrera is £105k nowadays!

AOK said: Trash_panda said: Whats driving this new price boom across these markets though? Covid period was obvious but then things started to drop or they never did really? I feel it's a combination of things: - like isaldiri says, FOMO (in particular combined with the "they're never making them like that again" mindset) - the fact that the generation who had posters of these cars on their walls are now coming into money - a lot of people pulling their money out of traditional investments classes like BTLs, liking the idea of parking their money in a tangible CGT-free asset which they can also enjoy from time to time - and for the 996 GT3 in particular, it can be considered as the start of the modern day GT car lineage Not to mention that a base spec Carrera is £105k nowadays! My BIL has just locked an April '27 build for a very nice, sensible, daily spec 911 Carrera. IMHO, at under £110k I think it's actually 'a lot' of car. Or put another way, there's not much else out there that ticks all of the boxes of even the most basic of 911's. As someone who's owener two Mezger engined cars, I can say with authority that there definitely is something very, very special about the character of those engines, even just at idle. However, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg if you don't get them on track and, in honesty, a lot of the hype is just 'cars 'n' coffee' bragging and bulls t gone mad. Stoked up by a few automotive journalists.

Trash_panda said: Whats driving this new price boom across these markets though? Covid period was obvious but then things started to drop or they never did really? I believe theres a perfect storm of a number of factors all happening at the same time. This is affecting any GT/RS/R/T, limited production models, specials and ALL air cooled. - Increasing cost of new models dragging up values of older cars - Regulations ruining new models, noise, emissions, ADAS etc - Lack of new manual ICE cars - Hybridisation and automation not buttering peoples parsnips (Reliability fears and too much complication) - Increasing desire for old school/real cars/interaction/challenge etc - Speculators, collectors and tax 'avoiders' - You Tubers influence This applies to all special cars, from an XR2 to a Ferrari 355. I also believe these increases in values will also drag up the regular models like 996/997/991 Carreras. I personally believe its not a bubble or temporary blip, its a correction/adjustment.

mollytherocker said: .... I personally believe its not a bubble or temporary blip, its a correction/adjustment. people always say that about any bubble....

isaldiri said: mollytherocker said: .... I personally believe its not a bubble or temporary blip, its a correction/adjustment. people always say that about any bubble.... To be fair, all bubbles are, by definition, of fixed duration. DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial adviser. Your home is at risk if you leave the gas on. etc. etc.

Digga said: isaldiri said: mollytherocker said: .... I personally believe its not a bubble or temporary blip, its a correction/adjustment. people always say that about any bubble.... To be fair, all bubbles are, by definition, of fixed duration. DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial adviser. Your home is at risk if you leave the gas on. etc. etc. Ultimately, none of us really know how this will play out, I can only give my humble view and I believe the current increases will sustain and probably go further in the mid term. We shall see.

mollytherocker said: Digga said: isaldiri said: mollytherocker said: .... I personally believe its not a bubble or temporary blip, its a correction/adjustment. people always say that about any bubble.... To be fair, all bubbles are, by definition, of fixed duration. DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial adviser. Your home is at risk if you leave the gas on. etc. etc. Ultimately, none of us really know how this will play out, I can only give my humble view and I believe the current increases will sustain and probably go further in the mid term. We shall see. I definitely agree that 'new s t' is ruining new cars in general.

AOK said: IMI A said: I was keeping an eye on it inc fees went for £105k. You could have bought the JZM yellow GT3 with half the mileage and PCCB for a bit less a few weeks ago. I hear what you're saying, but you also could have bought Scuderias, Speciales, SLSs, 997.2 RSs and 996 GT2s for about £50k less a few weeks ago as well. RPM have just listed a non-Clubsport for sale at £145k. Lower mileage, admittedly. For disclosure I was bidding last night, but stopped at £85k. On reflection, this could be the last time a decent(ish) Clubsport will be bought for around £100k. With the exception of 991.1 non-RSs, all other GT3s are commanding over £100k, and I don't desire to own any of those. So at £100k, is it bad value just because there were cheaper ones for sale a few weeks ago? Certainly a confusing situation. Fair play to the winning bidder and congrats to the seller. Wish I'd bought one from Paragon a year ago at £80k which they had for sale seemingly forever! I was very close to clicking when the winning bid went in. Have wanted a nice 996 for a while. May have to settle for a turbo.

IMI A said: I was very close to clicking when the winning bid went in. Have wanted a nice 996 for a while. May have to settle for a turbo. Depending on use, the turbo might be the better car. I loved mine.

Digga said: IMI A said: I was very close to clicking when the winning bid went in. Have wanted a nice 996 for a while. May have to settle for a turbo. Depending on use, the turbo might be the better car. I loved mine. Agreed, ran mine for 6 years, most capable all rounder i've ever owned, and never went wrong.

Manthey modded clubbie made 85k https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/2003-porsch...

Did not sell but if it had with fees that would have been £91k. Seller looking for more.

People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid.

And yet JZM sold a 4.0 modified 996 GT3 for £110k a month or so ago.

Jones the cat said: People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid. A stock original 996 - be it a .1 or .2 is a borderline ZZZzzzzz experience... That Manthey-ed car is worth every penny and some in terms of thrills and performance... It only takes one buyer...

Sold my 73k miles, Speed yellow .1 CS Manthey K400 for £95k privately a few weeks ago…..

Maybe car and classic doesnt have the reach of collecting cars?

Cheburator mk2 said: A stock original 996 - be it a .1 or .2 is a borderline ZZZzzzzz experience... That Manthey-ed car is worth every penny and some in terms of thrills and performance... It only takes one buyer... I wouldn't get too hung up on what J t C says ... Rest assured you know the market and cars better than he does, and you've owned/driven them. he hasn't.

Jones the cat said: People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid. and your certainty in stating that as fact is based on........?

isaldiri said: Jones the cat said: People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid. and your certainty in stating that as fact is based on........? I would say the square root of F all! Having owned 3 of the 103 UK 996.1 GT3’s, two of which were modified, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about!

ditchvisitor said: isaldiri said: Jones the cat said: People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid. and your certainty in stating that as fact is based on........? I would say the square root of F all! Having owned 3 of the 103 UK 996.1 GT3 s, two of which were modified, he doesn t know what he s talking about! He will telling you the correct way to fly a helicopter next;)

Yellow491 said: ditchvisitor said: isaldiri said: Jones the cat said: People want originality. They'll be lucky to get more than that 85K bid. and your certainty in stating that as fact is based on........? I would say the square root of F all! Having owned 3 of the 103 UK 996.1 GT3 s, two of which were modified, he doesn t know what he s talking about! He will telling you the correct way to fly a helicopter next;) Haha!! Cows get bigger, cows get smaller, that’s all there is to it! 😂😂 I hope you are well mate.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21011793 A simply awesome, awesome car with all the correct bits done. Manthey modded cars might not be for everyone but it is a little bit of history. Olaf himself worked on it.

Hi, Is your old GT3 orginal panel with no major accidents? Also how many track miles have you done since 3.9 rebuild? Lovely GT3.

PRO5T said: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21011793 A simply awesome, awesome car with all the correct bits done. Manthey modded cars might not be for everyone but it is a little bit of history. Olaf himself worked on it. For me, Manthey mods would be equivalent to a factory car. It's not some dodgy workshop that is out of its depth. They are official Porsche now for a reason

Dr S said: PRO5T said: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21011793 A simply awesome, awesome car with all the correct bits done. Manthey modded cars might not be for everyone but it is a little bit of history. Olaf himself worked on it. For me, Manthey mods would be equivalent to a factory car. It's not some dodgy workshop that is out of its depth. They are official Porsche now for a reason Exactimundo. Mods like Cup final drive and Manthey kits just make the cars even more betterer than they already are (the base cars are brilliant as they are too). Brakes makes them even more focused (if used on track, if not then not needed). RS rear wings more va va voom etc, etc. The only mods that would put me off are irreversible silly things like sunroofs, or GT2 bumpers, or aftermarket wings, or other stupid stuff which thankfully NO ONE does...!

It also helps to have an utter legend as the previous owner on the V5

PRO5T said: It also helps to have an utter legend as the previous owner on the V5 Thanks, your words are so kind, you needn't have

Trash_panda said: PRO5T said: It also helps to have an utter legend as the previous owner on the V5 Thanks, your words are so kind, you needn't have

PRO5T said: Trash_panda said: PRO5T said: It also helps to have an utter legend as the previous owner on the V5 Thanks, your words are so kind, you needn't have Of course you’ve seen that from both sides of the deal too.

Dr S said: For me, Manthey mods would be equivalent to a factory car. It's not some dodgy workshop that is out of its depth. They are official Porsche now for a reason 100%! Manthey is proper! I believe it adds value.

mollytherocker said: Dr S said: For me, Manthey mods would be equivalent to a factory car. It's not some dodgy workshop that is out of its depth. They are official Porsche now for a reason 100%! Manthey is proper! I believe it adds value. I’m curious to know… Is that for mods done by Porsche / Manthey themselves? What about before they were tied to Porsche e.g. I believe conversions were previously (and still?) done by JZM historically. Would these also add value?

rrroro said: I m curious to know Is that for mods done by Porsche / Manthey themselves? What about before they were tied to Porsche e.g. I believe conversions were previously (and still?) done by JZM historically. Would these also add value? I have the first K400 in the world which belonged to Olaf and Michael Eschmann. One of my mates owned for a while the (in)famous RHD Polar Express K400, which was built by JZM with Manthey parts. You could not tell the difference. This would be like trying to assign a higher value to a car serviced by OPC East London over one serviced by OPC South London.

rrroro said: I m curious to know Is that for mods done by Porsche / Manthey themselves? What about before they were tied to Porsche e.g. I believe conversions were previously (and still?) done by JZM historically. Would these also add value? Do you even drive bro? Begone with you Though I cant think of any modified car going for more than a stock one once it gains 'collectors' attention

Cheburator mk2 said: I have the first K400 in the world which belonged to Olaf and Michael Eschmann. One of my mates owned for a while the (in)famous RHD Polar Express K400, which was built by JZM with Manthey parts. You could not tell the difference. This would be like trying to assign a higher value to a car serviced by OPC East London over one serviced by OPC South London. I think when it comes to bolt-ons, there'll be no difference, but when you start getting into full engine builds and big bore conversions, it'd be different. FWIW, the first Manthey 3.9L conversion on a Mk1 996 GT3, was little short of a disaster. By the time it got back to the UK from Manthey, it was smoking and sounding less than healthy mechanically. The engine was torn down in the UK (not by JZM) and the individual reported his findings to Olaf or one of his subordinates, only to be angrily told by them that he had no right to strip it down and inspect it ! The whole lot duly went back to Manthey, who rebuilt it and then mapped it properly. From memory it produced 460hp. The early Capricorn/Perfect Bore 3.9 Mezger pistons, rings and liners were suboptimal, and I believe it took them some time to sort out the oil consumption and piston clearance/slap issues. I'm not sure how many 3.9 conversions were carried out by Manthey and the likes of Sharkwerks, but it wasn't a long lived concept, and soon gave way to Capricorn's and Mahle's 4.0, 4.1 and 4.3L conversions. I'd suggest the Manthey conversions of today are very different animals to those of 15-20 years ago. If Porsche AG have to warrant them, the QC and durability testing will be far more stringent than Manthey's would have been all those years ago.

Not a 996, but was at Mantheyblast week and this 1 of 1 997.2 special they built, with a 4.1 engine is beautiful.

Digga said: Not a 996, but was at Mantheyblast week and this 1 of 1 997.2 special they built, with a 4.1 engine is beautiful. Not wishing to be a pedant but it's a 4.2. They did a 4.4 M530 for Olaf back in the day and a small number more. https://type7.com/blogs/stories/improving-on-perfe...

Trash_panda said: rrroro said: I m curious to know Is that for mods done by Porsche / Manthey themselves? What about before they were tied to Porsche e.g. I believe conversions were previously (and still?) done by JZM historically. Would these also add value? Do you even drive bro? Begone with you Though I cant think of any modified car going for more than a stock one once it gains 'collectors' attention Pre-merger AMG Mercedes.

993rsr said: Not wishing to be a pedant but it's a 4.2. They did a 4.4 M530 for Olaf back in the day and a small number more. https://type7.com/blogs/stories/improving-on-perfe... imo manthey did and still do their best most relevant stuff under the skin without heaps of the carbon aero tat that is the 'main' MR signature these days for the cars. engine upsize of the 3.8 and high quality passive suspension + lighter wheels on a proven geo is pretty much all one could ask for on the 7.2 platform.

993rsr said: Digga said: Not a 996, but was at Mantheyblast week and this 1 of 1 997.2 special they built, with a 4.1 engine is beautiful. Not wishing to be a pedant but it's a 4.2. They did a 4.4 M530 for Olaf back in the day and a small number more. https://type7.com/blogs/stories/improving-on-perfe... I knew it was 4 point something. Was a long day on track and I was trying to remember the damper setup numbers they’d just given me and I was too stupid to write down. The execution of that car looks absolutely factory. Stunning.

Interesting to hear that early 996.1 engine conversions were poor. How were the 996.2 GT3 mods - K410 and M440?

isaldiri said: 993rsr said: Not wishing to be a pedant but it's a 4.2. They did a 4.4 M530 for Olaf back in the day and a small number more. https://type7.com/blogs/stories/improving-on-perfe... imo manthey did and still do their best most relevant stuff under the skin without heaps of the carbon aero tat that is the 'main' MR signature these days for the cars. engine upsize of the 3.8 and high quality passive suspension + lighter wheels on a proven geo is pretty much all one could ask for on the 7.2 platform. My Mk1 K440 with KW, 996 Cup transmission, 8:32 and the only exterior clue was Manthey mag wheels was perfection. Old pic from Pouhon

Not to forget this one…

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-porsche-9... Got to £50k im the same auction a few months back now all of a sudden its £77k! Very odd.

Jonstar said: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-porsche-9... Got to £50k im the same auction a few months back now all of a sudden its £77k! Very odd. It's hardly 'very odd' but more.... very understandablebin today's market. Why wouldn't any seller try it on given the supposed prices of other similar era cars? You wouldn't do any different if you were a seller....

isaldiri said: It's hardly 'very odd' but more.... very understandablebin today's market. Why wouldn't any seller try it on given the supposed prices of other similar era cars? You wouldn't do any different if you were a seller.... Who said anything about doing anything different? We're talking a few months not years. I'm not convinced the market has gone up 50% in that time.

Coming soon

Jonstar said: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-porsche-9... Got to £50k im the same auction a few months back now all of a sudden its £77k! Very odd. £83k with fees

Jonstar said: isaldiri said: It's hardly 'very odd' but more.... very understandablebin today's market. Why wouldn't any seller try it on given the supposed prices of other similar era cars? You wouldn't do any different if you were a seller.... Who said anything about doing anything different? We're talking a few months not years. I'm not convinced the market has gone up 50% in that time. well, whether you're convinced or not doesn't seem to have changed the fact that the car looks to have sold higher than that 77k.....

ponters said: £83k with fees Good point, even more shocking! A good one sold the other day with 30k miles for 90k, makes this seem poor value indeed!

Jonstar said: Good point, even more shocking! A good one sold the other day with 30k miles for 90k, makes this seem poor value indeed! But with a number of other cars on the market in excess of £140k cars will always find their respective values. If you live in the US and wanted a LHD 996.1 GT3 you may consider it to be cheap! Who knows only time will tell.

lovely one listed today. Unicorn condition. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20788108