new GT3 or C4S

Any thoughts! I' ve had a C4S on order for approx 13 months but now that Ive read the reviews on the GT3 I' m thinking of changing my order,I' m a little worried that we will find the ride too hard for touring . I' dbe very interested in your views on this ? Helen

My interpretation is that the C4S is more road oriented, whereas the GT3 is more track oriented. The GT3 comes with sports bucket seats I believe, so no rear seats and access to the rear is more limited. The GT3 also lacks the centre portion of the console forward of the gear lever, from what I can see in the piccies, so no sat-nav (which may be useful if you want to tour) or PCM. C4S suspension is 10mm lower, GT3 is 30mm, so it has to be harder. C4S has traction control, GT3 does not, C4S has 4 wheel drive, GT3 does not. So GT3 will require more concentration in awkward circumstances. GT3 has aero kit, so is little less discrete but does have narrower rear arches. From a performance perspective, the GT3 has more power at the top end, above 6500 rpm, so unless you rev it hard there is not much in it (the torque curve is the same). However, the GT3 is 10% lighter, hence the improved performance. I think it depends on what your primary use of the car will be. I ordered a C4S 3 months ago and it arrives in 2 weeks. I considered whether I should have ordered a GT3, but I want to use the car everyday. I might be a heretic for sacrificing outright performance, but I wanted the car fully featured. Rgds, Stuart.

Hi Helen, Why not call at Merlin and test drive the Red GT3 that they have for sale - that would give you a good indication [ ] Decided not to order the 4S so keeping the 996 and the M3 arrives in 65 days Congratulations on your elevation to RO - sorry to have missed so many meetings this year[&:] Hope to make the next one .....! Regards Andrew

Andrew. Went to Merlin in nottingham this saturday to talk to them about this and as you say look at the one thay Had in.Unfortunatly the GT3 has been sent of to Manchester and (as allways)I found the staff there very unfriendly .In fact thay told me not to bother as I had no hope of getting on anyway..thanks Guys!! Spoke to Evens Halshaw of Little Aston and thanks to the very helpful staff there I now have my order in for a GT3. now all I need is someone to show me what it can do on a track.

Helen, How did you decide between the two (I' m just curious about your views)? Did they give you an indication of how long the wait might be? Rgds, Stuart.

Stuart Two reasons that I went for the GT3 1) I fancy playing with the big boys..........on the track. 2) I felt that the GT3 will hold it' s value better. oh, I just thought of another.. 3) Just want to prove MERLIN wrong. I' m told by Evens Halshaw that I' m 3rd on the list so all being well I should be burning up the track in approx 15-18 months. By the end of today I' m hopful of owning a number plate for it..GT03 WOW

Helen, I know exactly what you mean about the sales staff at Merlin, I was let down the last time I came to change the car..[ ][ ][ ] To be honest I came to the conclusion they didnt give a toss if bought a car from them or not, so I didn' t [ ] Andrew

Helen, I had the same dilemma last year when the new GT3 was announced, I had ordered my C4S in Jan 2002 and had a long debate with myself and decided to stick with the C4S which I collected mid Jan 2003. Why? It' s my first 911 so I thought having PSM would help out whilst learning the limits, particulary at the Ring etc. If the first reason for a car is for track days buy a 993 GT2. Having seen 165mph at the end of the Lavant straight last year in Vic Chohens I have fallen in lust. Depreciation will also be less. Back to the C4S. My plan is to keep the C4S and when finances allow buy something more focused for the track as a 2nd Porsche (hope the wife doesn' t see this) or perhaps replace it with a 997 or 998 GT3, time will tell. The Spare set of wheels shod with Pirelli Corsa' s arrive tomorrow and the car is run in and had its oil change so role on Castle Combe on the 19th. Regards Kevin Cooke C4S XL

Kevin, How much did a spare set of wheels set you back? Rgds, Stuart.

Stuart, Check with Jasmine. They have got me a used/refurbised set along with the tyres. I was originally going for used 996GT2 wheels but they are 12' ' rears not 11' ' and need 315 section rear tyres which would have meant putting more neggie camber on the back " I din' t want to bugger around with the suspension set up until I' d done a few track days. Regards Kevin Cooke

Interesting thread. Congrats to Helen[:' (]. I was also wondering C4S or GT3 , and plumped for the GT3 as well[ ]. I had a similar experience with my local OPC. I was told they knew nothing about the GT3, then when I rang a second time thay told me they had all gone, and I was unlikely to find one (and weren' t that bothered either). I rang around a lot of OPCs, some of whom were helpful, and some left a little to be desired, shall we say[ ]. In the end AFN got my order, and hopefully it arrives early next year. (Can' t wait!). Rgds, Bruce

Nice choice to have to make, both fantastic cars. I just hope you have test driven the GT3, fantastic track day & fast blast car, but the ride is " very" hard, if you use it daily on B roads it will wear you out. The C4S rides on the same setting as my Turbo which is the equivalant to the standard sports suspension (10mm lower than a standard C2) & this is just right for handling , but still unsettles a few fillings, so with the Gt3 running 30mm lower than standard !!!!! Having said that each to their own I hope you enjoy your new toy.

Grant Have to confess to being a little worried about my filling(only got one)but what the hell, you only live once. being only 5" 2,I' m going to need a big cushion in my bucket seats any way.

Having done 700 miles in my C4S since Sunday, I have been considering the ride quality. The poise and body control using the sport suspension (which is 10mm lower) is much better than the standard C2/C4. I took in some minor roads today (no white lines, 1.5 - 2 cars wide sort of thing) and the whilst it bounced around a bit and the front wandered when unloaded, the grip was excellent. However, potholes do jar, and abrupt changes in level between different sections of tarmac do show how hard the suspension is. At least cats eyes are soaked up without issue though. For normal driving on public roads (at least in the UK), I would conclude that you don' t really want it much harder. I wonder if at 30mm lower you might struggle since there is not enough compliance to soak up the minor bumps - I would guess it is going to be pretty nervous unless the tarmac is smooth. I would think that 10mm lower is probably the best compromise. It depends on whether you want the car primarily for the road or the track. Of course if you do get bounced off the seat, there is plenty of headroom! Rgds, Stuart.

especally for me!

When does the GT3 arrive ? B road ride aside it will be an awesome car, the stat' s say it will be nearly as fast as the Turbo (note...without 4WD or PSM !!) should be one hell of an adrenaline pumping headturner !!!!

Grant. I' m now not too sure of the arrival date. Evans halshaw seem to be messing me about. I think I' m going to give up with porsche, what eles can I spend my £75k on.?

The two other things that spring to mind as being effective ways of disposing of money, are planes and boats. Perhaps you could take flying lessons and either buy a plane or a share in one, or Sunseeker, etc. will happily relieve you of as much money as you wish to get rid of. Rgds, Stuart.

No I like to stay close to the ground, cars keep/make me happy, If porsche don' t want my money then i' m not proud I' ll shop eles where.

I find it interesting that you are having so much difficulty. From turning up at the showroom for a quick look (I intended to look at 2nd hand C2' s out of curiosity, not place an order for a new C4S) to taking delivery of my C4S, took 15 weeks. I was lucky with the timing, since the dealership (AFN Guildford) had been allocated 5 more C4S' s. I thought about it for 4-5 days, by which time 4 out of the 5 had gone, so I had to make an on the spot decision and stump up the 5K deposit. They had a C2 slot that was also available in the same time. I did mention to them that I wasn' t a big fan of waiting, whether this influenced them I don' t know. Chiswick and Guildford are the two biggest dealerships in the country (in terms of sales), so additional allocations or queue jumping are more likey here. Rgds, Stuart.

I know what I' d spend my £75k on ....a nice second hand 996TT (some good buy' s around at the moment) but them again ignore me I' m biased. I am sure they will come good with the GT3...eventually !!!!!!!!!!!! Porsche dealers great service departments crap sales, what can you say !!!!!!

definitely less of a girl' s car than a boxster ........

Here you go Helen Back to the top

where you find that i thought i had looked right through the list!! where are my glasses!![8|]

Interesting point about dealer attitudes. I had cause to complain during the purchase process (and about the crap after sales service) from my OPC. Had a discussion with the MD of PCGB who told me that they recognise the " perception of arrogance" of some dealers and are taking steps to remedy the situation. Interesting that the last time I contacted either Merlin or JCT600 Brooklands, they were both still awful. Neil.

Helen Why not get yourself something sensible for the week (say a new Boxster S or a s/h 996) and spend £25k on a Caterham Superlight? I had one before I got the Boxster and nothing else for the money will come close - try sixty in 4 seconds and handling balance that laughs in the face of any lardy road car. I got rid of mine as I had to go back to 1 car and chose a Boxster - never regretted it for a moment but as soon as time, space and money permits, I' ll be getting an R300 Superlight with a competition exhaust and a red starter button!

i plan to keep my beloved Boxster for normal driving and for fun.!!! plan to have the GT3 and the Boxster with it' s GT3 body kit painted up with the same racing graphic' s.

Helen, it is interesting reading about your experiences in trying to order a Porsche. The service must vary dramatically from one OPC to another. I belatedly decided to order a new GT3 from my local OPC and was telephoned the following morning by the salesperson asking if I would be interested in a GT3RS instead!! I said of course, changed my order and have just been advised that my car will be ready this November. I didn' t order it until July 4th. Months after several other forum members were allegedly told that Porsche are taking no more orders!! It is a mystery to me but I am not complaining!

seems to be luck of the draw. also it might be that someone (like me)when they got to the top of the order list didn' t have the funds togeather on time so decided to wait for the next slot.

Madcaplaughs, My experience has been similar to yours - I actually put a deposit down on an RS in May expecting to be in with a " slight" chance of getting one having read all the hype about waiting lists etc - just after the FOS I got an e-mail saying I could have one of 2 being delivered in October......I have yet to receive any info about options - have you seen anything yet ? And I soooo don' t want to sell my Mk1 GT3, the RS better live up to expectations....... Shaun

Shaun I had to confirm options for my RS last week. There are not many things you can have! White rear console to match exterior, tinted screen, ceramic brakes, blue or red decals and wheels, CD/radio, litronic headlights and centre storage console. I was offered aircon, but I think the salesman was wrong because I don' t think aircon is an option. I ended up ordering just the tinted screen and red decals and wheels. Litronic lights are brilliant but you don' t really need them. Ceramic brakes did tempt me but for £5,000!!! I may fit them retrospectively in a few years when the price comes down to a more realistic level. I don' t think that having ceramic brakes will add £5,000 to the value of my car if I ever sell it.

Hi, I was initially going to go for the ceramic brakes but started to hear various things about wear - now if only 10% of the things I heard abour ceramics are true then I think that opting for the standard is the right move. Hmmm, the air con issue - I will opt for that if its available though like you I had read everywhere that it was not - I do actually use my GT3 for touring! I have to contact my dealer today about the options so will see what they say. Shaun

accordind to the brochour climate control is a no cost option.on a GT3.

Hi Helen You are right. But I thought it was not available for the RS?

oh, i don' t know about the RS.i would think that as it' s built for serious track fans then weight is an issue so AC is an unnessercary luxsury. (excuse spelling im having a bad day)