New prototype " 997" pictures in this weeks Autocar

Just a heads-up that Autocar have printed some pictures of a fairly heavily disguised " 997" Turbo-looking prototype this week. Tale a close look at the disguising though. They have tried to make it appear similar to the current 996 to hide the revised look underneath.

Yes & as I said in a previous rant, they say it will have " retro" 993 style lights (mutter mutter..been there seen that... etc) & only an extra 30 horses...call that progress..... PORSCE HQ we need at least 500 horses, less weight & sleek modern looks alla Carrera GT please !!

That would mean a re-design. This is only a facelift (a-la 964). Same with the upcoming Boxster (see Boxster register forum).

I don' t necessarily agree that we need a re-design. The 997 must look like a 911. 30 BHP increase will improve on what is already a superb performance. There are not many road cars quicker than the current 911 from A to B. Those that are rarely manage it without the help of the AA!

Madcaplaughs...yes the 996TT is still the fastest real world point to point car as it is & an extra 30 horses can only help...BUT the current car power race will see a vauxhall nova with 500 horses soon & Porsche has always been at the pinacle of high performance cars, an E class merc is now as fast as a TT in a straight line..say what !! As for a 911 must look like a 911, does that have to mean like a beetle, the carrera Gt is fantastic looking modern design, I also love the sleek shape of the original 996 & it can' t be just me as this modern design has been one of the best selling 911' s ever. That' s not to say that I don' t admire classic 911' s I love em, but Porsche has done that so lets look forward with new exciting design' s not back with rose tinted glasses.I also read that Porsche have direct injection technology which would transform the powerplants, but they are probably saving this for the next generation (998?) for marketing reasons. It' s the hot weather, a good rant makes you feel better.

Yes Grant. But even if the Vauxhall Nova came with 1,000cc I would still prefer to buy a 911. I guess that is the point.

I mean' t to say 1,000 BHP!!!!!!!!

Sorry Grant, I mean' t to write 1,000BHP, not 1,000cc.!!!

So size does matter ?

The point we' re making though is that there needs to be " clear water" between Porsche and the others. They have been known as sporty and fast cars, at the top of automotive design, reliability, handling and performance. The desirability is influenced by this brand positioning, which keeps demand and residuals strong (or at least stronger than they would otherwise be). It also keeps the excitement to the brand. If you can buy hot-hatches with the same power, exec cruisers with the same or better straightline performance, Japanese boxes with similar A-B abilities, all for half the price, then people start to question the value. Although the UK is the most badge concious car market, that only carries so far. Complacency and arrogance are disastrous for business - you cannot afford to wait until it starts to have a detrimental effect because you then have to play a game of catch-up, which is very hard and time consuming. There is a power war going on, but this is not the whole story, since performance is about more than just power. Usability, flexibility, reliability and drivability under different conditions are all equally important, and as Pirelli say " Power is nothing without control" . Driving something that requires a computer to keep it on the road misses the point. However, it cannot be ignored. If 30 bhp is added to the current position, then this is OK if the engine upgrades deliver more than the current 7-8% improvement. This would allow the status and polishing buyers the ability to have a fine car, but give the option of class leading performance for those that really seek it. The shape needs to evolve, but has to still, in silhouette at least, look like a 911. I would suggest that the key element to that is the rear window and the sloping bonnet. I think by adding some flare to front arches and with the turbo rear arches, is a great start, to create the wasted look around the doors. The basic shell should be smaller though, since we do not want it to become large and bloated. Weight also has to be controlled. I think the roof should be lower, as mentioned before. Personally I prefer not to have wings, or at least fixed ones, too Playstation, and with aerodymic advances these should not be necessary. I believe it should also be possible to get enough cooling without having the holes in the rear wings. I notice Gemballa do an air-to-water intercooler, which is a neater solution. The headlights are a difficult one. The current fried egg ones are quite practical, since all the lights are in one unit for ease of assembly, and all the lights are out of the bumper which protects them from minor knocks. They are also aerodynamic. However, the round lights are part of the character of the older cars. Yet the Carrera GTs lights look good and are a modern design. I suppose a 993 style headlight is not so bad, if the other lights (indicators, sides, fogs) can be kept out of the bumper, since I like the simple look of the font. The light has to steeply angled for aerodynamic reasons. I' d make the mirrors smaller as well. As mentione before, cascading the ceramic clutch down from the Carrera GT, would allow the engine to sit lower, and lower the centre of gravity. You could slant the windscreen a few degrees more as well. Of course the more you give the 911, the more room there is to up the Boxsters game, which is what everyone seems to want.

I agree with most of your points Stuart. The rear wing though is probably essential for a true racer although on the road it is not needed. All this talk about Porsche needing to up the ante is rather ironic as the GT3RS has just won the Rolex 24 hours at Daytona. It won its class and the overall race. This despite the fact that it was in the smallest engine class!!!!!!!! I think we can rely on Porsche to keep the 911 brand as one of, if not the most, desirable in the motoring world.

Yes, but the GT3RS is lighter (by a lot) and has 460bhp+ according to Mr. Bullen. We' re talking about the road oriented ( as opposed to track oriented) variants, with all the creature conforts fitted. This raises the possibility that there are too many variants, and that some are deviating too far from the racing ideal. However, that is what the market wants and that is what sells. Still fancy some venturi' s under the car though instead of a wing. The road wings are more for stability than downforce. The racers want the downforce since they have the slicks to take advantage of it. As I mentioned on another thread, it is possible Porsche know exactly what they are doing and have it all in hand, but do not want to say anything since all the orders will dry up while people wait.

Wait until you see the final product[ ]

I just wanted to say that BHP on its own is not enough. The main difference between a Porsche and the competition is that you can use all of the Porsche' s power. The car has the whole package. Road going TVRs have nearly always had more BHP than a 911. But it is very difficult to use all that power without killing yourself, or the car self-destructing! I do believe however that Porsche needs to concentrate on reducing weight whilst maintaining strength. On a personal note, I may be looking through tinted glasses, but the 911 must always have its engine lying behind the rear axle, and it must always be instantly recognisable as a 911. Otherwise it will lose its appeal.

We had the chance to look over a disguised 997 during the Factory visit (see this month' s Porsche post). I have not seen the Autocar article so I apologise if I repeat bits here. The interior was covered over so I am unsure what that will be like, but the intended look of the car outside was fairly clear. It is wider than the 996 (about the same as the 4S I would say, but the front also has flared arches to give a " waisted" look).Thr front seems to be more aggressive (again, along the lines of the 4S) with indicators in the top of the bumper air intakes. I thought it had a look of 959 about it... but in a good way. Not sure about the continued increase in size though. At least it still looks small next to a Cayenne [ ] Regards Ian