SC or 3.2 - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Having grown up always wanting a 911 I know find myself in the position to buy an older example. Having considered water cooled I now realise that I really want a 911. I have seen a couple of late 70's SCs, 180 and 188bhp versions, advertised by reputable dealers for around the £8k mark. I thought this looked cheap but there seems to be a depressing of prices caused by early Boxters going for a few £k more and 964s as low as £12k. Anyway, these SC are unfashionable targas which I seem to love. Would an early SC be a good buy for a pride and joy to live in the garage only to come out a suitable weekends or should I spend more for a 3.2? I'm not mechanically minded but am keen to learn and have done basics on other makes (brake hoses, starters, waterpumps etc). Thoughts please? Captain

If you can stretch to a 3.2 I would do it. Have you considered a LHD model where you get more car for your hard earned? I've no idea what improvements over an SC a 3.2 is, but another 40 to 50 bhp is one for starters. But whatever you get, you'll enjoy it!

I'm biased of course towards SC TBH I always found when I've driven 3.2 they seem a whole lot less, well, 'Spinny' Either will appear a little agricultural compared to cars now.

180, 204 SC or 231bhp 3.2 carrera. The 3.2 never made 231bhp bog standard. The early 3.2's were not much different to the SC's interior wise with the small side air vents. Later 3.2's were better in that department. 87 on G50 gearbox, hydraulic clutch G50 gearbox nicer to use and stronger but some will argue the gearbox ratios were not as good. In truth stay clear of targa's unless you can be sure that the roof does not leak. If properly adjusted and fettled it does not. Buy the best that you can afford and it will cost you peanuts to run. Buy a dog and it will always we a dog. My first Porsche a 3.2 Carrera was the cheapest car to run that I have ever owned.

Both fantastic. SC does appear more revvy than a 3.2, but no comparison mid range. Personally i would opt for the 3.2 if possible with the G50 GBox, better again. I had a 78 SC a few years ago, and i always found it difficult to make rapid progress with the 915 box. However the SC was the cheapest to run and i got my money back so you make your choices.

ok thanks for the comments. How about SC pricing? They seem to range from £7-£10k? I guess an early 180 bhp Targa SC would be at the bottom end with the later more powerful coupes near the top?

Garage mechanics,forget it. I looked for 2 years before I bought mine. There's plenty of crap sub 10K that have been kept going just as you intend to. People believing they can keep them going for £450 a year ? Henry F [911virgin] will tell you. Look at about £1k-2k pa Parts are an arm and a leg. Pre 86, 915 box, rebuild, and if it hasn't been done, it'll have to be, is about £3,5K with a clutch. Exhaust with heat exchangers, parts about £850 Everythings money. Get a few books first, and drive a few. Unless your getting 11 or 12 out, truly forget it. One massive hole into which its possible to pour your entire wages, and all your available credit into. Take a look at Burriana's if he's still got it.

I have a 3.2, and I would never change it for an SC, bit I think I would agree with rich. Although the earlier cars can be a little more problematic (rust and mechanical problems), they're all going to get that way in the end (comparing say an 84 or earlier with an 89). Although the 3.2 is a bit more powerful than the mechanical fuel injection jobs, it's only about 10BHP IIRC, and the earlier cars are certainly more revvy. The big thing is the gearbox. Some people prefer the 915 gearbox (maybe it's ok if well maintained), but I think it's generally accepted that the G50 box is more solid, reliable and will take more abuse. The 3.2 carrera demarks the boundary between the two gearboxes.

January's GT Porsche magazine has an article on the "£10,000 911" which I think you'd like. Covers a 70's 911s, a 911 SC and a 3.2 Carrera. cheers

I had a 3.2 it was a dog when i bought it and £12,000 and ten months later is was still a dog. Very fast dog though

scruffy101 said: Very fast dog though Twasn't where you got the name was it ? Thats more than scruffy

stuttgartmetal said: scruffy101 said: Very fast dog though Twasn't where you got the name was it ? Thats more than scruffy We had a dog called Scruffy funnilly enough, one of those French Briard Edited by rich 36 on Friday 29th December 15:02

As the cars get ever older, I'm not entirely sure that the premium for 3.2 over SC is worth it - certainly not for the non G50 models. A 204bhp SC with full SSI exhaust won't be much off a bog-standard 3.2 from a power perspective. Personally I wouldn't be afraid of an SC as if well maintained will be very nearly as good as a 3.2. I'd suggest driving both to get a feel for the difference. For example, the improved ventilation in the 3.2 may be important if you intend to use daily. Notably though, there is no doubt that a 3.2 will be easier to sell. Either way the classic advice is to choose on condition - although that is easier to say than do as its relatively easy to dress up a dog, so I'd certainly recommend an independent inspection. My SC has served me well over the last few years - great fun and generally reliable, but not especially cheap to run (top and bottom end engine re-build, SSI exhaust, clutch, hydraulic tensioners, short-shift kit, turbo tie-rods, brake disks and lines etc). I'd guess that long term the 1-2k per year is pretty accurate - I'd guess for both SC and 3.2.

stuttgartmetal said: Pre 86, 915 box, rebuild, and if it hasn't been done, it'll have to be, is about £3,5K with a clutch. A full gearbox re-build on my 911 SC (204hp) race car was only about £1000 earlier this year. It did also need a replacement (non-standard) clutch and I think this was about £100 - £150. The advantage of the 915 box on a 3.2 is that they lose less power - you won't see (m)any G50 boxed cars on the grid. I probably prefer G50 boxes on road cars, but it seemed worthwhile covering all angles. Another point - you can easily "chip" a 3.2 to give over 250 very useful & useable bhp for only £500 or so - I've not heard anything but good news about any car that's been done.

Get a 3.2 'cos it says "Carrera" on the arse !! What does "SC" mean ? I got a targa and love it !! Leaks don't come from the roof - screen seals are to blame !!

Ah the old 'what does it mean' chestnut, actually it depends on my mood at the time

semprini27 said: Get a 3.2 'cos it says "Carrera" on the arse !! What does "SC" mean ? I got a targa and love it !! Leaks don't come from the roof - screen seals are to blame !! "Super Carrera" "Sports Coupe"

If you are tall it's worth remembering that the later 3.2's (post 86) have a much better cabin, the seat bases are 50mm lower IIRC which helps headroom a lot. My first 911 was a 1987 LHD 3.2 - non sport model (ie no rear wing or fromt spoiler - very nice......I now run a very good 964 C2 as my daily driver, but I would have no hesitation in recommending that for a weekend toy you should buy the best car you can find at your price point, and don't worry too much which model you pick. They can all put a smile on your face, and a dent in your bank account :0)

The 86 3.2 has:- sports [widebody] seats standard better ventilation and steering wheel bilsteins increased anti roll bar bigger alternator revised Bosch K Jetronic Injection with cold start injector inside the airbox stainless steel fuel lines 915 box with side oil cooler over the SC A rebuilt 915 is a great box The parts bill for my 915 was over a grand from Zuffenhausen. One of the bearings was £142 One of the castellated nuts was £40 The rebuild itself, at Paragon, was only booked for 10 hours, thats engine on the bench. With a Sachs clutch,new flywhheel [they can't be skimmed] RMS, boots and nut and bolt rebuild it cost £3667 They had the box split right down to its component peices, every part on the bench for inspection. Very impressive. I recommend them thoroughly. A nut and bolt gearbox rebuild is not something I would ever wish to do myself. I bought my car with intention of driving it, not fixing it, or “ doing it up ” They are an arm and a leg to do that to, so buy a good one. They are perfect for weekends. Any clutch replacement in a 911 costs minimum £850 With the box out you might as well do the RMS and all driveshaft boots. You're brave doing this rebuild or clutch yourself, and would need full workshop facilities. Its not something Id consider, and Ive built cars from scratch. The G50's great, but heavier, and not Porsche. The Carrera 3.2 engine is streets ahead valve drive wise, without the slipper problems of the earlier engine, with a better torque curve. Id put my 3.2 up against any SC any time, and would be interested in the outcome. [There's a trackday challenge if you're interested any time] Get this, very good read. Buy Porsche 911 buyers guide by Randy Leffingwell ISBN 0-7603-0947--7

Get the best car you can afford. My advice would be a G50 3.2 (in LHD if that's what it takes to suit your budget) but a good SC will still be fun to drive. Can I suggest you visit www.impactbumpers.com - They specialise in these cars & will offer good advice.

andy tims said: Get the best car you can afford. My advice would be a G50 3.2 (in LHD if that's what it takes to suit your budget) but a good SC will still be fun to drive. Can I suggest you visit www.impactbumpers.com - They specialise in these cars & will offer good advice. I fully agree, I wouldn't buy a pre 86, and go for an 89, the very last 911. There are so many improvements. and given the choice would opt for supersport. www.impactbumpers.com Edited by stuttgartmetal on Saturday 30th December 19:24

stuttgartmetal said: andy tims said: Get the best car you can afford. My advice would be a G50 3.2 (in LHD if that's what it takes to suit your budget) but a good SC will still be fun to drive. Can I suggest you visit www.impactbumpers.com - They specialise in these cars & will offer good advice. I fully agree, I wouldn't buy a pre 86, and go for an 89, the very last 911. There are so many improvements. and given the choice would opt for supersport. www.impactbumpers.com Edited by stuttgartmetal on Saturday 30th December 19:24 You defintely want to search the buying threads at www.impactbumpers.com for advice on what is available for a given budget. Just remember these are all old cars now and rust and engine rebuilds are as relevant for a 1978 SC as a 1989 G50 3.2. You might *not* want to wade in with the *G50-only* view on day 1 (my humble advice, given freely, friendly board, site owner is a gem, depends how *in* to impact bumper cars you are...it's the weight of that gearbox you see...and real value is out there if you think outside the box ).

On the subject of the super sport model (Carrera 3.2 that is)...I must say they do look good. However, keep in mind that they are NOT as spritely as the standard Carrera 3.2 on account of being slightly more lardy in having the Turbo based body and brakes....of course the importance of this depends on the individual, so I'm NOT presenting a case for NOT purchasing a Super Sport. Also keep in mind that the pre-G50 3.2 (Porsche's own 915 gear box) is also slightly lighter and P&911 World have mentioned this a few times, suggesting that they can be more rewarding to drive and are considered in some cases the purer experience. Again I'm not presenting an argument for the pre-G50 at all, but I certainly wouldn't write it off and if I found a good example it wouldn't bother me. Keep in mind that when cars get to this age, it won't be the age of the car that matters but how it's been looked after and that's why history becomes everything as it builds a nice picture of the car. Edited by truckpdt on Saturday 30th December 22:08

rich 36 said: stuttgartmetal said: scruffy101 said: Very fast dog though Twasn't where you got the name was it ? Thats more than scruffy We had a dog called Scruffy funnilly enough, one of those French Briard Edited by rich 36 on Friday 29th December 15:02 it is my cats name

Sports Classic for a cheap price, is it not? Seems a heck of a deal. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21018034

Jones the cat said: Sports Classic for a cheap price, is it not? Seems a heck of a deal. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/21018034 Doesn't look cheap to me for a high mile early 3.2 with 915 box and tombstone seats, or am I missing something? Edited by MinchCS on Tuesday 8th September 21:03

I thought it was that light weight version - I got confused.

Time travel will do that to you, messes with the inner ear

I owned that car about 8 years ago. Put a fresh engine in it as it knocked the bottom end out on the way to work one morning. Does not look like it has done many miles since so maybe a good buy for someone. Back then it was just a stock 3.2 with no ducktail spoiler

As above, you need to spend at least £12k for a good one... Any cheaper and you might need to spend money on it.. ..oh time. Why do you fly so...

Prices / values have certainly moved over the years, but not as much as others. When I was looking to buy back in 2010 3.2s and 964s were roughly the same prices

Jones the cat said: I thought it was that light weight version - I got confused. You mean a Club Sport.In the UK all white with red Carrera CS script down the side and a red CS on the bonnet.Accept for one red car. We had 53 in the UK with around 20 apparently left. I have one which i have owned for a long time. I think most are held onto for long periods as they are a great car.

How times and cost has moved on, I think it was 2006 and I got an SC for £4995 that wanted painting, I did most of the prep work and a mate did the spraying. It had a 911 related plate on too that I still have. As for Sc or 3.2 think I would go 3.2 or even better super sport, how nice do they look. Day dreaming again