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YOUR RESEARCHOutlaw 996
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Run like a stocker, idled perfect, and redlined
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She ran like a stocker, idled perfect, and redlined on each gear without any hiccups.
Leading evidence: 'Run like a stocker, idled perfect, and redlined' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill us in' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
Can't tell exactly what they are doing from the attached screenshot, but fill us in with more details when you get the chance.
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Suggestion
But I would argue that RPM has already done it to a degree without structurally changing the body.
Replace from the original platform and is far too modern
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Suggestion
While still obviously a 911, the 996 was a revolutionary change from the original platform and is far too modern to incorporate much stylistically from the older models without it looking forced or disproportionate.
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Suggestion · Original poster
A lot of people like to change the hood to the old design with the vent look, but I wouldn't want that.
Replace from the original platform and is far too modern
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Suggestion
While still obviously a 911, the 996 was a revolutionary change from the original platform and is far too modern to incorporate much stylistically from the older models without it looking forced or disproportionate.
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Generation: 20261026T183130Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I know a few years ago there was a thread asking if there was a potential Singer market for 996s (
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...rly-996-a.html
). The consensus seemed to be that the cars were not worth enough to do it. Since then the values have skyrocketed and now you could potentially build one and not be way underwater because of the engine build. Below are some thoughts I have on what I would like to see with a Singer-like build. Let me know what you would like to see.
A well-built engine with the weak points resolved. 400hp NA would be a good start
Redesigned front bumper. Nothing crazy, but somewhat different. I would build the front end around the Turbo radiators, so that would dictate the design. I don't want scoops everywhere. I want a simplistic design. Something like the GT2 bumper
Improved cooling for the engine. Use the Turbo sized radiators and add the third radiator
Keep the headlights!! Maybe add improved internals but keep the design the same. I am ok with the .1 or .2 headlights.
Carbon Fiber is used for the hood and decklid at a minimum I don't need any design changes on the front hood. A lot of people like to change the hood to the old design with the vent look, but I wouldn't want that. I want this design to be modern imaging. No need to go back.
Widebody look. Nothing crazy, but stretch it a few inches to allow bigger wheels and tires.
The trunk lid is the biggest change that can be made. Most of these builds use some sort of duck tail. You could go that route. I have always liked the big tails from the early turbos. I would like to see something like that.
The taillights should stay the same, but with improved internals. I also want the C4S reflector, but functional
A top-notch upgraded suspension. Coil-overs, etc...
Bigger brakes from a later model 911
The wheel design is always very subjective. Every one does some sort of Fuchs. I could live with that. I would prefer something like the RS Spyder mesh wheels. Or even go with some variation of the 996 and 997 GT3 wheels.
The interior is the other area that can be improved upon as well. Here are some highlights for the interior
NO RUBBERIZED PLASTIC in the interior anywhere. Start with the Full Leather interior and build on it.
No back seat with a tasteful delete.
Recaro-like front seats. Something that holds you in, but is still comfortable and adjustable. (Carbon fiber backs would be nice)
I would keep the basic dash but go with the higher-end leather dashboard with white-faced gauges with nice real aluminum rings. Maybe look at nicer buttons. Something aluminum. Could completely change the horseshoe and go with square buttons.
The console would need to be carbon fiber or leather-wrapped. I wouldn't mind the full carbon fiber treatment for the interior (shifter, parking brake, steering wheel, etc..)
For an entertainment system, give the customer two options, a nicely integrated modern system with all the bells and whistles or a completely bare-bones radio with Bluetooth.
That is my vision, I'm sure yours would vary.
This is the video that got me thinking about this
You Tube
I like the idea of this. RPM Technik in UK has started something like this already, be it not to Singer levels and I like what they have done. If we're talking Singer comparable, I'd like to see a high revving version of our motor with about 400hp at the wheels. Given the low weight of the 996 chassis I don't think anything more is needed unless you want to flex on the internet. Give me a solid high revving 400hp that I can take to the track on occasion without worrying about oiling or temp issues. Focus should be on the driving experience - not 0-60 times. +1 on a duck tail. It would be nice to have a suspension set up that has adjustable dampers from within the car through - let's say 3 settings. I also love the exposed linkage for the manual shifter CAE offers, so that or something similar.
RPM Technik has been building their CSR cars for a number of years now. Not to the full extent of a Singer or Guntherworks build but heavily refreshed and sorted cars. Apparently they drive really well *shock*
Cd tray (cassette tray) delete would probably be standard, or repurpose that area as a cordless charging pad to modernize the car. I agree to keep the 996 as intact as possible looks wise. Otherwise what would be the point of this exercise? It's a celebration of the 996 not a correction.
I'd think to spice things up; a partnership with a premier engine builder to create something unique and water cooled for the car would be phenomenal. Similar to how Williams F1 developed the engine for Singer.
The previous gen Singer cars were Cosworth powered. Not too bad for the boutique builder to get engine support from Williams and Cosworth.
From the carbon work, component partners and fit and finish - I really enjoy the Singer cars from an idea point of view and would like to see someone push a 996 in a similar fashion. The RPM cars are not in the same ballpark as singer stuff - not to say that in a derogatory way, just no where near the level of customization or component selection.
All that said - for me, a 996 Singer would be the same animal as an air cooled version… too nice to do what I really want to do with a 996 and with the components and build ethos, that’s a real shame.
I actually think the lower price point years ago was an even bigger reason in favor of outlawing the 996. Seems backwards to me that becoming more valuable/expensive would serve as an impetus to heavily modify them. That said, I think it�s about time for something like this.
That's a good start. I think I am looking for a little more modernization around the headlights, taillights, and a little more customization of the interior.
The 996 was the best version of itself as a race car. So I would try and make it like a streetable GT3 Cup or RS in mechanical and exterior styling terms, with the interior also race car-like but with top notch bespoke materials and fittings. A must for me would be the twin center exhausts, though I�m not sure how many of the race cars had that setup.
I also think a Cup car would be a good start. Leather, quilted fabric and carbon up the interior and put a great paint job on it. Could come in around $120k for a ferociously capable street car. Think lux cafe racer vibe that you can slap a number on and rip up some DE days, if the mood strikes you. 370ish hp should suffice for a 2,700 lb car.
This is the same thought that I have had for a while and I think CSR has started well, but the interior still needs more work. I would add a re-do of the door panels, get rid of the carpeton the door and add a RS style loop. And full aero with either the ducktail or turbo wing, more subtle than the GT3 or GT2 wings.
Curious as to what seats you are thinking about. Those I would trim the center in a plaid fabric.
RPM technik has done a nice job.
But to everyone's point, no one has yet "re-imagined" the 996 to the extent of Singer for the 964 and Manthey for the 993 as it pertains to the interior, exterior or engine.
Market prices will need to rise further before it happens. Can't wait.
I�d love to see a company base their outlaw build incorporating the body work around the factory Aero options offered on these vehicles (with tweaks), lots of quality carbon fiber body panel work etc. Engine and drivetrain- would be awesome to see one of Jake�s R/40-R43 engines incorporated into the build, a gearbox refresh and maybe Albins 3.77 ring and pinion Kit. A good Sachs clutch, with the dual mass flywheel still. Suspension, following the guntherwerks theme, have a nice Jrz adjustable suspension to dial the vehicle in, maybe blend some tarret components in for control arms, sways etc. Then to the weight loss- following the many weight loss threads, lots of weight can be dumped in the front and rear of these cars. Someone can use the turbo weight loss thread as an excellent starting point to dive into this. Even if you did a full rear interior gut, some custom carbon fiber panels with some sound deadening like guntherwerks has done, and very light exhaust components- achieving a 2,700-2,800 pound weight should be doable in the C2 cars. Couple that with the one of Jake�s engines, the right suspension setup, and the re-gearing mentioned, and your on your way to a very exciting ride. Dollars spent will not be cheap by any means. Can�t forget about Brakes either- working off a light weight design like the giro disc would be a solid add on, incorporate some light weight bbs wheels as well to manage the unsprung weight too. As GC said, we will have to see where these cars end up price wise and see what some of the buyers will invest as the future comes. Would be an exciting build to watch.
Someone with a computer and design skill will eventually come up with ideas that capture the core of the 996 that combines timeless retro with the modern that will tastefully work for both the exterior and interior. RPM has successfully started it without engine enhancements. I hope they take it even further as 996 prices continue to rise. Who knows, maybe someone on this thread will be the "one".
You got my attention!
I don't think anyone will ever successfully "retro" a 996 because there is nothing to retro back to on this platform. While still obviously a 911, the 996 was a revolutionary change from the original platform and is far too modern to incorporate much stylistically from the older models without it looking forced or disproportionate.
Maybe. But I would argue that RPM has already done it to a degree without structurally changing the body. I for one don't have a creative stylist gene in my body. But many others have the "re-imagine" vision. Singer, Gunther, RPM, others!
You can definitely integrate retro elements into a 996. The center strip between the tail lights on the C4S is a great example. There are also other things that can be done tastefully, like pepita inserts in the seats or Fuchs style wheels. The one thing that I've seen that is consistently a stylistic failure is when someone tries to toy with the headlights.
Ludic is the closest I've seen to pulling it off, but it was a huge undertaking and the car looks very odd from some angles. It looks pretty good from this angle though:
Yeah, "looking odd" seems to be the key. Plenty of kits out there but many look odd or not appropriate given the lines of the 996. To your point, its not an easy proposition.
In my case, I have yet to figure out what to do with the "look" after 19 years of ownership. Engine and suspension are easy. Exterior and interior have been damn near impossible.
No need to turn the 996 into a 964, 993 or 997, kinda looks silly. It should look like a 996. Interesting that RPM has teamed up with Manthey. May bring a bunch of new ideas to 996 application. CSR Retro, CSR Evo, CSR modern race? Who knows.
In my opinion, the goal is not to create a retro look, rather to improve/maximize both the performance and aesthetics. Also, I'm not concerned about a Singer level of build, rather more Magnus Walker. As
@GC96
stated, engine and suspension are fairly straightforward, how can we make the exterior, Fuchs, ducktail, Porsche doorsill stripe, aero kit, etc. Interior, new seats I would add a plaid seat inserts, center console delete, new shifter and ****, rear seat delete with a nice shelf design and I would love to figure out how to re-do the door panels. It would still very much be a 996 including my amber fried eggs, but to borrow a phrase from Singer a Reimagined 996.
Since I just got my 996, I'm looking at this as a multi-year build and trying to prioritize.
I sold my 03 996 tt 2 1/2 years ago with stock aesthetic but the motor/trans was built by AIM Performance of NJ using Syvecs flex fuel ECU made 1140 hp and fully street drivable retaining its AWD. She ran like a stocker, idled perfect, and redlined on each gear without any hiccups. Piloting that car with the CAE shifter is heaven and won't mind doing the same thing on a retro build featured here. AIM Performance has proven world records.
This is a pretty cool update and something that would go pretty well inline with a reimagined 996 or at least one of the options!
No doubt would this be costly and not easy but any means but if you're trying to mimic what other resto-mod companies are doing things like time and money become irrelevant.
Pete,
Can't tell exactly what they are doing from the attached screenshot, but fill us in with more details when you get the chance. any ideas are good ideas.
Sure thing! I posted about this a while back but Jethro Bovingdon is a car journalist out of UK and also stars on the Top Gear UK and happens to be a big 996 fan. Owns a 996.1. A while back he worked with Litchfield Motors, which is a very well regarded shop in UK, on a special project. He was able to get his hands on a 9A1 motor out of a newer 911 and decided to see if it's possible to swap it into the 996. Litchfield took on the challenge, although regretted it at times as it sucks being the first one to do something like that and working out all the wiring and etc. It's been quiet on the progress of this for a while but this post tells us that it's all completed or very close to it! Much of this was shared in a podcast he did a while back. I think it was on the Smoking Tire. Either way, I'm expecting a video and some more info from him once the swap is buttoned up and running. I'll be sure to share it here...
Thanks man! Somehow I missed his project. Good to see all the ideas.
As a side note, you gotta a pretty sweet looking car with the turbo front end and the APEX wheels. Are you thinking about a wing or ducktail. If so, what?
Thanks - appreciate it! Have definitely thought of it as well as something different for the front lip but those are on backburner as I chase a few other engine related gremlins.
