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YOUR RESEARCHCoilover Options December 2021
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Adjust street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment
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I have no doubt that while they�re adjusted for street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment for de type track days (no I�m not planning turning my car into a track car😉
Leading evidence: 'Adjust street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'few days' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust coilovers if i want too' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Also the 2 other 996 owners I've installed Feals for are happy as well.
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Suggestion
But the key for me is the ability to adjust the coilovers if I want too, for street and track.
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Suggestion
One thing to consider when choosing a set up is the ability to adjust height without affecting shock travel.
Adjust street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment
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I have no doubt that while they�re adjusted for street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment for de type track days (no I�m not planning turning my car into a track car😉
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When I really didn't know what I was doing, the kit was the best way for me to go and it worked out amazingly well.
Yes I know there is a wealth of knowledge on these forums about coilovers, but I'm curious what people think of the options out there right now.
Basically my stock suspension was falling apart on my 2004 C4S, so the shop I had my
post
purchase inspection done convinced me the H&R Street Performance Coilovers were the way to go - as everything else is backordered into eternity (this was July).
So they lowered the car nicely, but the amount of body roll I'm getting is insane. On hard uphill corning I rub the rear tires, and my car isn't even slammed. Below is a pic of my car on the track.
Basically I want out of these coilovers already.
The options out there are:
Ohlins Road & Track - $4290.00
.
These aren't coming out until 'March' at the earliest
. Though my track buddies tell me these are the ones I want of the 3 main options.
KW V3's - $3190.00.
1-2 month lead time
. Always solid and reliable, though I'm being told they are 2nd to Ohlins for track / heavy canyon use?
Bilstein PSS10's - $2777.00
-
IN STOCK
. I'm told these just wont hold a candle to the Ohlins, and arent worth swapping the H&R's out for.
I'm curious what anyone with experience with these feels. I'd love to hear the Bilsteins are the way to go since they're the cheapest and the most available, but I'm sure that won't be the case... I'm really trying to reduce body roll above all else.
I can only speak to the KW V3�s as that�s what I have. I previously had Bilstein B8�s with H&R sport springs, H&R adjustable sways etc... All I can say is that the KW�s are amazing. My car is pretty low... I never get any rubbing or bottoming out, zero body roll, yet it still absorbs bumps amazingly well. I�ve spent a good 4-6 months getting it dialed in to a good compromise between handling and comfort and I have to say I couldn�t be happier. While I haven�t had the car to a DE or autocross yet, I�m sure there�s plenty of adjustability available...
Darnit. So they knew you tracked the car and suggested a street suspension for you? Can you just get different springs?
If you want new, I'm a big fan of MCS as well. They go in everything I own that sees track time and isn't a factory race car.
I know the ohlins have high spring rates for a road going suspension. I think that is how you reduce roll. Mine are great on the street....thats all I know.
The Ohlins are so good for a dual use car, I would be inclined based on my experience to say they are worth the wait, although the price you have listed is $1500 more than I paid which does put them in a league competing with the higher end MCS / JRZ's of the world.
I think if you really know what you want, the MCS singles would make sense, you can get the exact spring rates and I believe they come with upper mounts, not sure about the sway bar mounts - but... It's not an off the shelf kit like the Ohlins. When I really didn't know what I was doing, the kit was the best way for me to go and it worked out amazingly well. I was able to run a season on the stock springs, then bump up to the highest rate Ohlins recommended and improve the track performance and the street sacrifice was really pretty negligible for the seconds shaved on the track. The results I saw on track blew my mind, I have the lat G data to prove it. The below is on 100TW tires.
If you have an idea of what you want, reach out to MCS, their singles are 3050, you will need to figure springs and maybe sway mounts, I would budget another thousand bucks for that stuff. I am not sure about the singles, but I have spoke with them on their higher end offerings and one of the features I really like is the wide window of spring rates, it would seem from what I have learned through conversations with both Ohlins and MCS that the MCS have a far larger window of available spring rates without needing a re-valve, again, you would need to double check if that was applicable to the singles.
You won't be disappointed with the Ohlins. A quality product for street and track use. Pair them up with H&R anti roll bars. Made a world of difference for me.
U can also put ohlin gt3 set up in a c2, not sure about a c4? If u buy them through 3DM they can set them up the way u want them and also give 1 free revalve.
With my gt3 set up the car is very solid and feels great on the track but i dont have much to compare it with.
The AWD cars can't use the C2 or GT3 front struts, the front steering knuckles are different. The front suspension geometry also isn't really that great as it needs to have space for the front driveshafts.
The struts aren't going to have a huge impact on body roll, that's down to the springs. You can cheaply get higher rate springs and see if that makes any improvement.
I have PSS9's on my AWD car which are the predecessor of PSS10's and they are pretty good although I want a more track focused setup when I do make a change. They have served me very well this year in eleven track days. The biggest improvement I made was "monoball everything", a track centric alignment, and Eibach adjustable sways.
One of the reasons why the Ohlins AWD setup is very expensive is that it comes with Elephant Racing front strut mounts - very nice stuff.
Another vote for Ohlins R&T. I did a lot of reading and thinking before pulling the trigger meanwhile
@zbomb
just kept telling me to quit it and buy the Ohlins. Well, he was right! Have been loving the set up a lot. Very dual purpose capable. One thing to consider when choosing a set up is the ability to adjust height without affecting shock travel. One of the biggest suspension factors is shock travel. For this reason I looked at Ohlins, Feal and Fortune Auto offerings. The benefit of the latter 2 is that they can basically build you a custom set up for a very reasonable price which you can later upgrade, if you want. Also, nice that it's a USA company that has been around long enough to establish some good reputation across various car makes, not just Porsche.
My recommendation would be either MCSs or JRZs if you're willing to spend Ohlins money. It's a bit more but having driven cars on Ohlins R&T vs. MCSs and JRZ, I'll take the more track dedicated damper any day of the week. The PSS10s will be like your current suspension with some adjustability but not enough to warrant changing them. The only serious track guys I know who run KWs do so because they're sponsored by KW. They're running clubsports or higher.
Since your pic is from Willow Springs, I'm assuming you go to all the other usual Socal tracks: Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Auto Club. If you're aggressive on the curbing at Buttonwillow or like to go flat through the bumpy pavement of turn 8 at WSIR, I promise you MCSs or JRZs will be worth it. I'm sure the Ohlins work great on average but unfortunately for us in Socal, we're not blessed with smooth pavement and banging curb
is
the fastest way around the track. Motorsport level dampers will make a significant difference in your lap times. Buy once, Cry once.
There are a lot of great choices including first hand experience from many of the guys.
Just like the Prf, I have been running PSS9s on my 2002 C2 since 2007. My suspension is corner balanced with GT3 specs including Tarret F/R sway bars. My shop set up the suspension and helped me refine it at the track. At the time, it was either PSS9s or very expensive Motons or JRZs. Not much else was available that was worthwhile. So I opted for Bilsteins. My set-up is stiff on the street and solid on the track. Quite frankly, they have been great. Obviously PSS10s are a more advanced system than the 9s, but the logic would play out the same.
I do plan on replacing the suspension in 2023 with most likely JRZs. In the meantime, I am going to replace my Bilstein springs with stiffer Swift springs that Tarret tells me will work within the specs of the PSS9s. Worst case, I bounce like he'll around town and go back to the Bilstein springs.
But the key for me is the ability to adjust the coilovers if I want too, for street and track. While I love to track my car, I do not plan on making it a full time race car.
A lot of variables in play depending on what you want. Hope this helps a bit.
As a cost comparison my ohlin gt3 co's, 4 tarett top plates, sway bar brackets, gt3 sway bar links and the few other pieces that i needed to make it work were the price of the jrz level 2 co's by themselves.
Almost every pic i have seen of the jrz shocks show them with the top mounts and brackets but that $55-6500 price tag is for co's only.
Motons r even more. Both r serious money with a much shorter rebuild schedule. They r full race car for application and cost.
You nailed it. Cost is huge with JRZ and Motons. All in you are looking at 9-10k.
For most DE folks, the list outlined on the original post will do the trick just fine.
If you are a club racer or are building a track car, you will need more.
FWIW, Jason may be selling his Ohlins. I wouldn't hesitate to take a look if someone is looking to save a few bucks. Coilovers have a long life and can be rebuilt.
Who is Jason and where can I contact him and buy these lol.
Lots of great input on here. Really appreciate it guys! It looks like Ohlins is the way to go.... I'll just stick to my H&R Streets until Ohlins come out in the spring. I do have H&R sways front & rear as is.
Jason's C2 Ohlins won't fit on an AWD car. Ohlins for an AWD car are reported to run around $4200 which includes the Elephant Racing top mounts. Lots of talk on this in the 996 Turbo forum.
I'm running KW V3s. I've had good experience with these in the past with other cars. On the 996 they do well on the track and are decent on the street. The Ohlins looked great but have no compression adjustment if I recall. For the extra price and the fact they had a pretty big safety recall on the 996 models I'd consider KW. That said I've never sat in a car running Ohlins.
I've been looking for options for my 996 turbo. I have Ohlins on my 996 C2 and they are great. The price for the c4/turbo is quite high with Ohlins at 4,200 for a set so it�s made me look into other options.
has anyone used FEAL coilovers? I see great reviews on them for other cars.
I still don�t know if I should bite the bullet and get the Ohlins for my 996 turbo or try mcs or something else for my daily driver and occasional track days.
Many of us, including me, are running on Feal coilovers. I�m very happy with mine. I have pretty much zero wheel gap, but the ride is sporty, compliant, and no rubbing. One thing I advise on these is to get a good ride, you turn up the damping near the high side, don�t set the damping low trying to get a soft ride. I have mine at about 25/27 clicks firm, front and rear.
I'm happy with my Feal coilovers as well.
Also the 2 other 996 owners I've installed Feals for are happy as well. (another C2 and a C4)
They're a quality cheaper alternative.
I would not overlook the PSS10's. I have the earlier version PSS9's on my Black Turbo and they are fantastic on the street and acceptable on the track.
With all due respect to owners of all the alternative CO�s� This is not a � Brand X is the best� type of post�The only direct comparisons I can make are between - Stock �99 worn (out?) C4 shocks & struts (Bilstein B4) with stock sways & droplinks, Bilstein B8 w/H&R sport springs (also H&R 3 hole adjustable sways, adjustable drop links, Tarrett camber plates up front, & 15mm wheel spacers all around) & finally, KW V3 with the same supporting components (with the addition of adjustable coffin arms up front, as well as adjustable toe arms and dog bones in the rear).
The B8�s with H&R springs were a great step up (and down if you get my drift� about 1 1/2� lower all around) over the worn stock suspension both in look/stance, ride quality (no more crashing/banging over bumps) and handling - much flatter through turns with confidence inspiring feel. I was extremely happy with the results after I installed them and had it aligned. I put about 12 - 15k mi. On the car with them, and if I hadn�t been presented the opportunity to get a great deal on the KW�s (with less than 10k on them for $2.25k) I�d still be driving it with the Bilstein.
Granted I�m not a track driver (yet) but the biggest thing I can say about the KW�s (and any adjustable co I suppose) is that it takes time to dial them in - it�s not just pick a setting and viola� - instant success. It took my about 6 months of driving in all conditions to really find my sweet spot between comfort and drivability. I started out a �little stiffer than midway� on both the compression and rebound adjustments (I think the compression settings top out at 13 clicks and rebound is somewhere around 14-16 clicks). I started at 9 on compression and 11 on rebound� I think I�ve settled around 6 - 8 on the compression and probably 8-9 on the rebound (but maybe less, I just don�t remember). In addition I tried a bunch of different combos in between. What I found overall was that small changes (one click either way had real consequences - especially with the rebound. My initial hunches/adjustments were to firm for the street and the rebound if set too quick has a tendency to become skittish/hoppy). Once dialed in the ability to absorb big bumps, potholes, expansion joints etc. is phenomenal all the while retaining great handling characteristics (flat through winding turns with solid connected feel). I have no doubt that while they�re adjusted for street dynamics now, there is plenty of room adjustment for de type track days (no I�m not planning turning my car into a track car😉
� YMMV�
I�d love to as well� one of these days! It seems the two NJMP tracks are the most common for my area (Metro NY PCA). If/when I get out there I�ll be sure to give to a heads up 👍
FWIW - I did the Porsche driving experience a few years ago - Caman GTS & 911 GTS� great to compare both platforms� super fun
I was going to go with the Ohlins until they went MIA last year do to some problems, which they handled very well I hear. I needed shocks sooner than later sense I had all the suspension torn apart. Also the price increase on the Ohlins went up by quit a bit. I went with the PSS10's and have been very happy. I attend as many auto-cross's as I can and they have performed much better than the old tired shocks and springs. I would venture a guess that the PSS10s are well above the performance level of lowering springs and non adjustable shocks sense they are made as a complete working unit instead of separate pieces. Just my .02
Lots of groups run at njmp. Ill be there over 12 times with MoE and probably a few days with DEpca. I hope to make at least 1 metro event too. The Repete makes a good home base in the pits.
I�ve also considered this kit from Sachs. Quality looks amazing. Just look at the adjustment ****.
they also are suppliers for the cup cars.
what do you guys think?
https://www.sachsperformance.com/en/...s-841500118462
Interesting...I'd be curious to see their performance compared to the usual PSS10 and Ohlins. Probably really nice. These are probably a few steps above the H&R if I had to take a shot in the dark. At $2250 USD after converstion rate, seems like it could be a good option.
That said, I wonder what their service interval is, their instructions are in german and the only parts in english are the install instructions at the end.
