987.2 lowered suspension - my plan - what do you think?

Wanted to share my lowered suspension plan and reasons why – feedback welcome. I am pretty sure I have searched and read every suspension thread here (and on most other forums). I am unlikely to track my car. I love the car, but hate the ride height – read; I am doing this for looks. See pic. Non PASM. Maybe because car is white the gap between tires and fenders is more pronounced? Lots of strong opinions here, such as; - Leave it stock – don’t mess with success - have at it – do with it as you will - if you are going to track the car, there are better set ups – like coil-overs, with other bits. - springs alone are great – love it - springs alone are a bad idea – you’ll screw it up - anything over a 1”drop really messes with geometry - I like the look lowered, seems to handle better So here goes – I am installing R springs. That’s it. I figure it will give me a 20 mm drop. It will be subtle – I don’t want it to look too low. The geometry guys should buy in. The lowering springs guys should buy in. For the “ the struts on the R are not the same as the struts in the S”people – well – maybe they are. On the Bilstein site, the sport struts for 2009 Cayman S are the same part number as 2012 Cayman R. I realize factory struts are different. But if it is good enough for Bilstein, I figure it is good enough for me. I highly doubt I will be able to notice any difference in handling of car. I am not a track car driver. Again, this may sound shallow, but this is for looks. I am trying to screw this up as little as possible. I like the idea of using factory parts. I am hoping the results will look good to me and maybe the few others that could even tell. Finally – a few questions – Are compensating plates used on both front and rear? Are the part numbers the same? Is there any reason why you can’t run without compensating plates or should you have at least 3mm plates all around? View attachment 46866

What the h3ll is a compensating plate?

Item number 5

I'm interested in this thread as I am leaning toward this approach as well (and I am a suspension novice). One thing I saw posted recently was that you would need adjustable rear tow links as the links currently on the car cannot achieve proper alignment specs.

Yep same here, 987.2 base car with standard 17 inch wheels. I love the old school traditional way it looks with 17 inch wheels, and ride is perfect, but the 2 inch gap in the wheel arch looks ugly. I'm not a fan of cars that look super low. R-springs sound perfect as I had already ruled out HR springs at 1.3 inches lower, as its too much of a drop for the real world on a daily driver. Just need to understand how you can use a shorter spring like the "R springs" and still use all the same stock suspension without messing up the smooth ride?

Answered you're own question; there is more to the Cayman R suspension set up over an S than just a spring swap. If you are playing about with suspension, don't go half measures - do it properly.

First, I really like that pic! Second, this might just be me (or illusion in the pic) but the wheelgap doesn't look horrible Third, I agree with TheBob - if you are going to do something do it right. Or the other way around - if you are going to half-*ss it why not go with H& R springs ?

I say have at it. The R springs can be harsh. I see your in Toronto. NJ roads are horrible and I suspect the same in Canada. I have not been in a Non- Spyder - Cayman so I cannot judge how well the ride is but the factory R springs are good. Your goals are clearly looks and that is just fine. It will handle fine. If the aftermarket Bilsteins are the same part number I am not to sure that the factory units are that far apart. The R springs are just about right for the drop I think your looking for.

I agree with the op, I am in the same situation, I have an S and yes wheel gap is pretty bad, my guess porsche does this deliberately to make the R look out of the box a bit more aggressive than the base or even the S. and also for you to see a reason to "upgrade" to their sport suspension. like I said I would also do this just for looks not planning in tracking the car ever, but don't want to "destroy" the car either ie.. mess with the geometric ect. what ever happens to the line of springs H&R used to have, they use to have 3 different sets of lowering springs, race lowest, sport 1-1.3 drop and they had an OE spring that would only lower .75 (20mm) <that just might be perfect. but I don't think they make those? do they?

I could be wrong but my understanding is that the stock dampers have more rebound or travel than the R dampers so your car is going to bottom out and be bouncy like if you got H& R springs but probably not as bad because the drop from the springs will not be as extreme. It is not going to feel the same as the Cayman R or Spyder because the rebound is less so no bottoming out or bouncing. Your ride will be definitely different than current setup. Where as if you go with the whole Spyder / Cayman all suspension setup none of this will happen, however you will have a stiffer ride than your current setup.

I appreciate all of the comments - I realize that switching to R springs does not mean I have the R suspension. There is no way to make the S into an R because of different wheel weights, vehicle weight, plus a number of other differences. I think the non PASM S suspension is a bit of a compromise to start with - as another poster alluded to. Can anybody weigh in on the compensating plates? Some posts have indicated they are used on front & back - I am not sure if this is the case as I can only find info on fronts. My plan would be to either use 3mm all around (if they are in fact needed) or leave them out completely if simply there to raise height, and not necessary.

OK, I know this is heresy, everyone will say that this is dangerous and irresponsible, but there is an old hot rodders trick that I have actually used on a Porsche (928) and it worked just fine for me. If all you want is slight lowering for looks and you aren't going to track the car (I did by the way) then remove the stock springs and grind off a bit from the top and bottom of each spring. Measure the suspension geometry so you can calculate the exact amount to grind off to get the amount of lowering you want. There will be a multiplier effect so that a small amount of spring shortening will result in a much larger suspension drop. I did not experience any bottoming out or any odd tire wear. The ride did not feel any different and the car handled just fine on the track (Watkins Glen)

View attachment 46950 View attachment 46951 View attachment 46952 First, nothing about the car is horrible - but it does have a 4 x 4ish look with the standard suspension. Second, I think your comment referring to Planet 9 owners - not to mention all other forum owners who are looking to lower their cars by adding lowering springs are going about it half a$$ed is a bit of a tough pill to swallow. Old air-cooled 911 owners adjust their ride heights to their own personal whim - and no one questions their decisions. After all - I am looking to lower a 5 year old Cayman S to drive on the street. - It's not like I am launching a track campaign with a new Cup car. And finally - I take that back about nothing is horrible - the yellow side markers and the yellowed rear fender protection film are horrible - I will fix. Carry On

I agree with you, and took care of the side markers my self already , I'm my self leaning more and more towards springs, but don't want to go lower than .75 or so or a max 1" nothing lower though. I don't see how can that small amount could possibly "ruined" the cars ride. Specially since we are talking about street driving. I guess I would have to keep looking for the right springs though...

For a ROAD car, suspension is supposed to keep tires in contact with the road at all times even over bumpy terrain, whilst minimizing the impact of said bumpy terrain for the driver. It achieves this primarily through the springs and the dampeners - they work and are matched together to provide the right characteristics. Anyone looking to lower their ROAD car by just swapping the springs for purely cosmetic reasons is doing so at the (potential) risk to the suspension dynamics, as well as ride clearance and certainly to geometry (assuming you don't get this reworked). Its absolutely something you can do and will give you the results that you are looking for - but by only replacing one aspect of the suspension, are you are in fact, by definition, half-assing it; so don't have a go at the guy for not being politically correct about the way he said it. Now if you get the full Cayman R setup... now thats a proper job that'll both look great and dynamically improve the car - the whole nine yards. Carry on

It does look a little 4x4ish lol Fortunately the 981 offers the sport suspension option (20mm drop) And even after you ordered the car u can fit the option ( x73 ) Is that not offered for the 987?

Yes it is, but the package is struts+springs. And the OP doesn't want to shell out for that. This is what I am looking into myself: P87-2 Spyder Suspension Package - Carnewal It's also available over at Suncoast parts: Cayman R Suspension Retrofit orsche Parts & Porsche Accessories - Wholesale Porsche Parts & Tequipment

I believe that the OP's point about this being done on a road car is to say that he won't be exploring the limits of the car's suspension dynamics. I understand and agree with what he's getting at. Does anybody happen to know the difference in spring rate btwn the S and R springs ? Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I recorded these number for reference after a previous search on this site, did not record the source post. Cayman S is 154F and 211R Cayman R is 171F and 245F PSS9 is 285F and 370R

OK - for the record I am not taking offence from anyone's comments, nor am I going after anyone. I still feel like even if the entire suspension was replaced with R components, I still would not have the same set up because of different wheel weights, vehicle weight. Which would still mean I had semi -half-a$$ed it? The only way to get an R suspension - is to buy an R. I just don't see the that any good comes from telling someone - many people on this forum included - that they have done a half-a$$ed job because they chose lowering springs. It seems to me modifications are a personal choice. It may not be your cup of tea. There was an earlier post with a guy who just sawed a chunk off his springs - that is not on my list of options, but nothing wrong with hearing about it. I appreciate that people are passionate about their cars, I am too. I do appreciate the feedback and if someone has a more compelling solution (that fits my needs) I will seriously consider it.

Hey man; skip to the red So... if you don't want to read the wall of text I do not mean to be disrespectful, I just think you may be underestimating the implications of changing suspension parts - its generally one of the most costly things you can modify on a car - and for very good reason. Therefore when people enter in to it without sounding fully informed, it makes some people nervous in a overbearingly protective sort of way. Cayman R's can come in both the Boxster Spyder lightweight alloys as well as other Porsche alloys - wheel weight will affect performance but you don't care about performance so is not important. The permissible gross weight of both the Cayman S and R is ~1700kg; and given people come in all shapes/sizes and cars come in all types of specs, you'll find total car weight difference is not significant enough to cause issues (I would not be surprised to find some Cayman R's being heavier than some Cayman S's). By changing anything suspension wise on the car (even just by lowering it by cutting the springs) you'll need to get a full geometry fix otherwise you will run in to significant tire wear issues due to change in alignment - fortunately a good geo will compensate for car and laden weight. As far as i'm aware (someone please correct me if i'm wrong) only the springs and dampeners are different on the Cayman R - other suspension components such as the control arms are standard equipment - therefore by getting both you are in fact getting the exact same suspension setup as a Cayman R - thats a full and complete retrofit of original Porsche parts - Not only does this bring about the lowering effect you're looking for, but also a much improved ride and improved resale value - obviously not to the amount you put in, but certainly since suspension components are wear items and the parts you have replaced are of higher quality than stock - which is quite important for some people. By changing just the springs, you'll negatively impact ride and handling (which is also adverse for resale), for relatively high cost, at the gain of cosmetics. So... Have you considered 'lowering' by other means? From your picture it looks as though you are running 18" alloys - why not swap to 19" alloys? + Will 'fill' the wheel arch's more giving a much sportier look giving the impression of a lower profile. + Can sell your old alloys for recovery on the new ones or keep them for spares/winter tires. + Can improve handling considerably by replacing with either light weight Boxster Spyder or aftermarket alloys - a nice set of OZ powdercoated black light weight alloys would look great on your car. - Marginally more expensive tires - Marginally reduced ride comfort over rough terrain Food for thought? EDIT: Just went to their website and specced it up: It would look the bomb...

TheBob - I appreciate the options you are suggesting. My car does have 19's - those are what are in the pics - and part of my reasoning for wanting it lower - it just seems like a lot more gap than belongs there. I think we agree that once I start modding, I probably will be compromising the handling, regardless of what I do. I have read in other posts about R owners that will not even change their cat back exhaust system because they believe the change in weight will affect handling - and one reply commented that if the driver lost 20 lbs of weight, that too affects things. My point is I think it comes down to varying degrees of messing with the suspension. Changing the exhaust on the R may affect the suspension/ handling by some infinitesimal amount - I don't know. Putting R springs on an S may affect the handling a great deal more - or a little bit more - again, I don't know. I agree it is a complex part of the car. As I mentioned in first post, there are guys here that have lowered their cars with H& R springs , kept stock struts, and swear it handles better. I have read articles on the Cayman Registry by suspension gurus who say that if you just want to lower you car for looks, springs only are a suitable solution. I am pretty sure the R uses different sway bars in addition to struts and springs - not sure about the other components. I fully intend to keep all of the original parts. If this does not work out, I will return it to stock. I do intend to get an alignment done once springs are on. I would of course include all original parts if I sold car - even if it turns out the handling is just fine.

As I stated earlier. I am going to assume the roads in the Toronto area are not so great. I have been there twice in the last year. The R or Spyder suspension is fairly harsh on bumps. Sometimes uncomfortable. On smooth to reasonable roads it is just fantastic... !! I just think you need to take into account the conditions where you will be driving as well. I truly understand where you are with your issue. I also fully understand that YES any suspension mod has both negative and positive outcomes. Personally for your use on the street I really do not think that just springs will ruin your car. I would check the spring rates of the factory springs against the ones you are looking at and see if you can find something close. Its up to you if the potential of resell value is an issue or not. Keep the old springs and swap them back if you want to sell. I think someone will totally overlook the spring issue when they see how good it looks lowered. There are all types of buyers that are all looking for other things. Most have no idea what they are even looking at. This is a very special group (that is a compliment to all by the way). I would consider matched rate new springs if you can find them and a new alignment and have fun with it. Just my opinion. It would be great if someone with a spyder or an R could let you take a spin.

I'm one of the "gurus" on CR. If lowering the car for appearance, switch springs. Its difficult to find out what the spring rates actually are from most aftermarket suppliers. Generally a shorter spring is a little stiffer.

i think im going to get airbags for my CS... lol j/k. question: does anybody knows if there are any aftermarket lowering non adjustable kits, made for the cayman ? 2k+ for the R kit is somewhat steep for such a small benefit/difference specially if it's street use only.

I made this swap over the winter. However, as suggested, I did the full monty. That means using a complete Cayman R spring and Strut. ITs really not an option to just swap the struts. You must use the springs as well. I've posted about the swap elsewhere on this BBS but I will repeat of some of my experiences for you. Firstly, you can save a load of money if that is an issue, by asking track guys if they still have their R suspension sitting around in their garage. A lot of them pull them off with low miles and go immediately to a full race suspension. So, cost wise, thats the most effective way, since you get pretty much all the R parts you need for the swap, usually for under a grand. (this is something S drivers should keep in mind as well, as you can get low miles S suspensions too for the same reasons). Secondly, as pointed out, you really do need the complete strut/spring/mount units. This gives you the proper R set up with out risking handling issues. To do otherwise would be unwise. Its about handling. Even if it looks better, you don't want to do something that would cause handling issues. Thirdly, you can keep your S anti-sway bars IF you do not have a Limited Slip Diff. The front R sway bar is the same as the S. The rear is only slightly thicker on the R (and I mean barely) and it is done that way because the R comes with an LSD . So, no LSD , you can re-use your S model sways. Fourthly, Linkages all see to be the same part numbers, so the toe link and lower control arms are, apparently, shared between the two models. However, IF you can get the R parts as part of a deal, use them just in case this is incorrect. If it Is incorrect, you may not get proper camber. I was able to get proper front camber and am able to go all the way out to -1.4 on the front. On the rear however, I was NOT able to get the proper Cayman R factory spec -1.5 camber as specified by Porsche , but can get -2.0 to -2.7, which is fine for a track car and seems ok on the street, but makes me wonder if the rear LCA is different on the R versus the S. Finally, Ride. You will definitely be giving up ride comfort. The R suspension is much more harsh on both 18 and 19 inch wheels. You will hear the suspension loudly when you hit bad round. Not that the S suspension was quiet. But you will definitely feel hits deeply/abruptly compared to the plusher ride of the S suspension. Its not bad mind you. But its more abrupt. I am a track guy, so I don't care for now. But for a daily driver you may not like it as much. You feel the hits more, and you hear them louder. On the upside, the car hugs road like a misguided hippie trying to save a tree! And on the track, its just a thing of joy. The S wasn't bad really. For a guy just doing half a dozen events its fine as is. The R suspension is not massively better even. But the car is lower and that helps other things. There is less body roll as well. But again, the S wasn't all that bad to start with. anyway, if you like the lowered look, do it right, and safely, and just get the R spring/strut combo. Or go to 20 inch wheels if they fit.

Yes - I have read pretty much everything you have posted there - and learned a lot. Thank you

I appreciate your comments, but again I think it comes down to varying degrees of messing with the suspension - You are drawing the line saying absolutely you must change the struts, but then you add don't bother with the sway bar because it is only a little different. But what that means is it will still not be a complete setup, and therefore - a compromise over the true R setup - maybe a very small one. Just as not switching to R wheels or lowering car weight. Many people on this forum have installed H&R springs, still using stock dampers- lower car by ~ 35mm and they are very happy with result - It seems feasible to me at least that if I lower my car by 20mm there is a good chance my result will be somewhere between the H&R result and the stock set up? I actually see this as a more conservative approach than the H&R springs. Again, if it does not work, I will either put it back to stock, or install aftermarket bilstein sport struts for the R - which are the same part as the S.

Wow, no wonder when I have riden / driven a stock 987/997/ 981 /991 recently, it feels like a Lexus compared to my set up with PSS9s (even with the dampers set to full soft)......

Did this ever took place? Any reviews? Pics? Thanks

What was the final verdict here???