EIGHTY FOUR "84" 996 Engine Replacements Due to NON-RMS Related Issues

after all this talk about engine replacements on the 996 (and of course having two of my engines blow up on me) due to non-rms related issues, i decided to take the liberty and do a search through three internet forums for the past two years in relation to engine replacements not related to rms... since it appears, many on this board, believe the 996 faulty engine theory to be a myth... so i decided to spend 30 minutes looking under just three forums.. including this one.. to see how many online 996 forum visitors have had to have their engines replaced due to NON-RMS related issues.. (if I added the RMS as a reason for a replacement to the statements below, it would be too high to count..) now after reading this, all of you 996 engine-failure "mythers" might want to rethink your past belief in the 996 engine... considering maybe 2-3% of 996 owners ever post on these 3 forums.. these statements aren't counting the rest of the 97% of owners or so that don't ever visit these forums on the internet...... maybe this will put it all in perspective for those that seem to believe these cars have bulletproof engines... these are exact statements, each quoted all from "different" individuals and "different" 996s... read on and take what you see as you wish... nothing below is my opinion.. simply a copy and paste of just a few of the posts archived about the 996 engine from the past couple of years i put together in 30 minutes of research on non-rms related engine replacements.. take it as you wish... ----------- "I also had an engine go out on me at 30,000. My warrenty had expired a year earlier for years, millage was good to 50k. I took it back to the dealer they put in an engine for $8000. Said that was half price. I am looking for others who have had this same problem with the 99 engine. A independent porsche shop said they had 99 engines stacked up at the porche dealers afew years back. First I think the head gasket goes an you start getting oil in the coolant. The dealer attempted to fix it twice and the engine just blew up a few weeks later. If you have had a similar problem please write back. I think porsche of america owes us all new engines for free." - pklauser "I am waiting on the new engine to be shipped from Germany. Also, what are my options in this case? In terms of getiing rid of this car for Porsche's expense." - igor "The engine on my 996 C2 cab had to be replaced.... it blew because of a coolant leak, also lots of problems afterwards with the water pump and similar....." - RoTTie "I recently had the engine blow on my 2002 Carerra with 4100 miles (Tip). I have now heard of two other people who had the same problem, one at 2100 miles and one at 3500. Seems to be a pattern. Porsche wants to replace the engine and I want a new car. The guy who had his blow at 2100 miles got a new car. Has anyone else had this problem or know of anyone who did. Please e-mail." - Bob Scott "I would assume everyone has their own opinion on this question. I am the recipient of a 99-996-C2 with a brand spanking new motor at only 35K. I purchased the car (my 1st Porsche) from a friend who bought a Cayenne a month after replacing the motor. The car was flawless and garage kept (at home and at work). ALL repairs and maintenance was performed at the dealer (including tire replacement) and the motor still went bad." - brianp "i have a 99 996 and i had my engine replace last month." - Maxeemum "The M96 engines ever since 1997 have been blowing. I know personaly some guys at the club who had their engines blown. Two weeks ago a 2001 3.4L blow the engine, oil in the coolant. I went to see the car, the engine was out and the mechanic told us it was a normal failure on this engines, he has seen dozens and dozens. make a little search on rennlist and you�ll be amazed at the number of stories with blown engines on this cars." - J.Seven "In my '02 996 I had my engine replaced. Twice. Both times under warranty. Ah, and also the transmission (once)." - nicoff "I have a 99 c4 with 49k miles I was driving "spiritedly" the other day and my transmission literaly blew apart Evidently, I'm going to need and entirely new transmission AND engine! The parts alone are 30k! i think that a good portion of the cost they quoted me comes from the fact that my transmission case is not reusable. The service manager said that I would have no core to exchange for a rebuilt transmission and I would have to buy a new one." - ronc4 "All I said was that a significant number of 996's have had premature engine failures, here's a list of some rennlisters who have had it happen to them! Waz's - 996 six months after he sold it Cydog- 10,000 miles galinskie-11,000 miles Bob scott- 4400 miles climber-15,000 miles Micheal Elmore- one of his buddy's at 300 miles! - jsonnen "I had an electrical fire yesterday in my engine compartment. I have a 1999 996 C2. Very scary luckily I managed to contain it." - adamhevey "Wow, talk about a suprise....had the 996 towed to Pfaff for a strange rattle in engine area yesterday...today the service mgr calls to let me know a new engine is on its way from Germany... So...car is an 2002 Targa with 18,500 km on it (12k miles for my American friends) Porsche dealer will be tgiving me a letter which states that the engine was replaced due to manafacturing defect. " - carbon_00 "my C4S's motor was replaced at 13k." - mooty "A co-worker of mine has a '99 Aero coupe that recently (within the past 6 months) suffered an engine failure." - Cajun "The engine on my 2002 C2 Cab bit the dust at 10,000 miles... The crankshaft pulley guide pin broke off. At first PCNA was going to replace it with a re-built engine, but the dealer from whom I had bought it used (Paramount Porsche) got involved and helped PCNA see the light... Kinda looks bad when a $105k sticker car takes a dump at 10,000 miles. They replaced it with a new engine (not re-built)." - cydog "My 11,000 mile 03 C4S is a semi-daily driver and just had a complete engine replaced under warranty (mostly). The intermediate shaft bearing failed. Previously it had an RMS replaced. It's a fabulous car to drive but when the warranty expires I don't want to own it. In my view if you really want to enjoy a P car, then lease a new one for only as long as the warranty period. Then lease another one. You'll get a great night's sleep. TW" - tedwentz "Engine replaced at 8k miles! At one point in time, Porsche was replacing engines at a rate of ~200 per month. Not sure about todays rate, but it scares me." - chris walrod "13,500 miles. Intermediate shaft let loose. Engine replaced with new. Car used more for trips and enthusiastic driving than around town." - threeOh "Well, I was not so lucky with the valve spring theory. Turns out, the mechanic thinks that I have a bad bearing on the intermediate shaft. He found metal shavings in the oil and filter. The car still runs, but makes a rattling noise. I have only driven it up on a trailer and off again. He says he can get me a replacement engine from Porsche for $6995, plus installation!" - byron in ms "have a 99' 996 convertible with 17K miles. My coolent light started blinking. I bring it to the dealer (still under warranty) and he tells me it needs a new engine." - chad "Mine is the one that needs the engine. You can have it for CHEAP. I have owned the car a little over a year, it has never had any mods and I pamper it - usually with a car seat in the front. The problem occured while sitting in my garage. I too thought I was in the clear regarding this problem with 50,000+ miles, even though I do not have past service records (not for lack of trying though). Believe me, if it can happen to me (a guy who drives 7,000 miles a year while driving it every day) it has to be more likely to happen to a car that is mod'd out and is driven hard often." - joes c4 cab" - mht "This is my very first post as I am not even a Porsche owner yet. I am about to buy a 1999 C4 with 34k. The car looks and drives like new. The owner is an avid and active PCA member and has several Porsches. I get all of the warm and fuzzies from the guy. My only concern is that at 27k it went in for service and the entire engine ended up being replaced with a brand new one" - SDC4 "I have an 01 6spd. The only major problem was the engine had to be replaced due to a defect in the main bearings." - Bobby "My buddy had his 996 engine swapped at 6K miles" - Kevin Deal "I recently had the engine on my 04 C4S replaced, the car had the X51 option originally, is there any way I can tell if the replacement engine has the X51 internals. warranty repair, intermediate shaft broke. Thanks for your replies." - Porsche996 "I wouldn't go as far as to say it "doesn't blow up". Why did European Car have engines blow (yes, really blow) in two separate long term 996s?": - stiles_s "My 99 {bought used} blew its engine on the track. Didn't tear down engine {just replaced with crate motor} so not sure exactly what happend, but probably a combo of hard track driving without engine oiler upgrade and some engine gasket in the oil pickup {found during removal} did the trick." - pete01_996 "I had a replcement due to a non-RMS issues (they still don't know what happened, or haven't told me but the engine let go -- I think it had a slightly cracked block when I got it from the Porsche dealer, but what do I know)." - ledzec "99 996 mixing cooland and oil within the engine!!!" - CameronTX "The engine on my 03 C2 was replaced 2 weeks ago (19K on original engine)." - sqlb "Dealer called, oil if full of sleves, can�t believe this happened. The bill with a reconstruction engine from Porsche is 8500Euros plus labour. I�m devasted, car has 55000Km/3400Miles always assited at the dealer, this is cleary a faulty design from the engine that we as clients should not accept. Porsche should support this expense, but my car is from 1999 and here in Europe the warranty is only for two years so I�m sure they will show me the finger (excuse me for the bad linguage but I�m really pissed off)" - origany "had the engine replace in 2002 in 2001 996." - tom 77 "Hi there I Live in southern california, and was wondering if anyone could help me out on getting my 1999 996 motor rebuild. I took my car to Walters porsche in riverside and they told me i would need to buy a new complete motor at the price of over 13K." - cyberstock1 "so... a 2 weeks ago I heard a knocking sor of metal on metal sound coming from the engine. I called the dealer, a flat bed was dispatched and a few days later I was told that it was a "bad intermediate bearing" Porsche AG decided the easiest way to fix it was to swap out the ENGINE!!!!." - jbdmd "Engine out and covers off, found that a bearing on the bottom input / auxiliary shaft has collapsed and has ruined the casings and sent metal fragments around the engine. There is no sight of over heating or blueing of the bearings. Now awaiting a new engine and an even more than hefty bill than the last one." - drive my 996 hard "I don't really want to spend $8k since I just bought the car a few weeks ago and won't be reimbursed for the engine until litigation is complete. I took the car to a Porsche dealer for a problem and they didn't put any oil back in the car. Crank bearings are everywhere in the engine." - rhunt "I just had a new from porsche remanufactured engine installed. The original one had 50K miles and had a intermedate shaft break. So thinking a new remanufactured with the 2 year parts only warranty would be like putting in a new engine WRONG. Now what ! My repair shop is an independent and is calling the dealer who sold us this defective engine". - photo25 "The picture is that of an engine block from taken of the inside of one of the cars that at present has undergone an independant inspection and awaiting porsches comments.It shows what happens when you get a free steam clean of the cylinder due to a cracked liner (I got a few more but cant seem to upload them on my replies!!). Its a 2000 c2, covered 23k miles not raced, fully serviced at my Porsche centre since new. The independant inspector found the fault not to be due to normal useage. Its not coverd under Porsche warranty, PAG has contributed �0 towards replacement. I need a new engine my Porsche center admit that this is not uncommon" - n4das "My 99 996 Coupe has been at a N. Cal dealer since 11/13/02 with a mysterious engine vibration. The symptoms (seats shake, humming noise) aren't affected by clutch being in or out, nor does the AC on or off make much of a difference. Dealership said a replacement engine would be provided" - AveryII "i currently have an 01 E-gas 3.4l engine with 15,000miles. it is missing the A/C compressor, and altinator. now my question, the engine has a cracked case" - p-tech "My engine was replaced by Porsche at 26k miles when it blew a valve, it was replaced under warranty with a new engine." - Scott "Dealer was very nice to tell me that car had engine replaced at 15K miles. I bought it used with about 18.5K on the car. Before i bought car, I asked another dealer about the car records, but he didn't mention engine change. Oh well, i'm not sure if an engine change is a good thing or not, but when i asked the previous owner he told me it was making strange sounds." - c2blk "So, I take my '01 996 w/4,000 miles on it, out of storage earlier this year and find that it's leaking oil. I take it in to Porsche and find that the head & valve cover gaskets are RAINING oil. My Porsche dealers' response - "This is normal"! Maybe normal for a yugo -we're talking about an $80,000+ sports car. They replaced everything and its fine now, but alittle bothersome. Has anyone else experienced this?" - Brian "Your car is consumming a lot of oil. If it's not leaking it, then it's burning the oil in one or more of the combustion chambers. The purpose of the compression test is to determine which cylinder(s) have a problem. I'm sorry to say that your engine may need a rebuid. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck." - fast1 "I heard of 4 such cases in Atlanta. The problem appears to be related with the new variable timing system. My dealer said that it was related to overtighntening of bearings.... He's got 4 really upset customers right now." - Jean-Marc "I know of a car at Newport Auto Center , California that they are replacing the motor as of last week. Its either a 01 or 02 i think it was a blk cab" - swest "My 01 C4Cab. with 9,600 miles suddenly blew so much white smoke today that it clouded the entire street & the tranny started skipping. I had to had it towed as a cop patrol was around & stopped me. As it's a long weekend in Canada I couldn't get it to the dealer until Tues. Do you folks have any experience with this & know what may have caused it? There're no warning lights signalling any problems prior to this happening. Would appreciate any input." - dtsp "a similar account here in Va. a month ago lead to a new engine courtesy of Porsche." - Berkley "I have a chance to buy a 2002 C2 coupe for a very good price. Only catch is that the engine was replaced at about 10K miles." - scott10s "The dealer took the car back and said they had traced it to a faulty Oil Separator. They replaced the item, put a detergent in the coolant and told me to drive it for a few hundred miles. They then were planning to take the car back and change the coolant. About 1000miles later the car blew a coolant hose because of the volume of emulsified oil in the cooling system. Clearly the dealer had not solved the problem. The dealer has now stripped the engine and is claiming that it needs replaced (at a �13k cost!). The cause, apparantly is a crack in the cylinder liners (2!)." - Craig O "I need some advice, I was backing out of my garage on Saturday, and my car made a horrible noise and then died. I had it towed in today, and my dealer said it was a bolt that broke off the crankshaft, and basically the engine is shot." - galinskie "my buddies engine up here in Toronto blew and he is getting 2 years additional warranty on the motor.... I would ask for at least that." - c70Pete "I took the car back and now the dealer says that the entire engine has to be replaced!" - Javier "First off, I tend to frequent the M3 boards, I'm just asking this on behalf of my father, who bought an '01 996 C2 Cab. He was driving home from work the other day, on the freeway, when he gets an error message instructing him to check the alternator/battery. He starts heading for the Porsche dealer, but is still a good distance away. A few minutes later, he loses power steering. He can still drive it, but decides to get off the freeway in a mile or so and drop the car at a friends house, and borrow a car, and tow the car to the dealer the next day (It's night, dealer is closed, and a few miles away). He has slowed down to about 55mph at this point, and the engine is heating up - the tempurature gauge is not in the red, but it is higher than normal and inching up very slowly. Suddenly, red lights start flashing, temp. gauge is in the red, car is overheating. He makes his way over, exits the freeway, and begins the short trip to his friends house. Approx. 5-10 minutes after the red lights started flashing, he stops at a light, and the car dies. He is surrounded in light grey smoke, or more probably, steam. Someone calls the fire dept., thinking the car is on fire. It's not, but they open the hood to check for oil or gas leaks and there is none, but they can see the belt is no longer on the pulley. So the assumption is that the car threw a belt, and thus overheated. They're giving him a new engine." - Max Power "My 99 cab engine's gone they want 15 k for rebuilt. Anyone know the PCA factory reps email for so cal.? Iam 2000 miles over warranty with perfect service record. Please send me to any postings that may be helpfull." - climber "Unbelievable! So many engines with so few miles on blowing up!!! I saw another 99 blowing up its engine on a DE... Sad sad sad... especially given the fact that the previous aircooled engines seem to be indestructible. I would have hoped Porsche doing something about it... Good luck guys, I wish you all the best..." - DJF1 "Aside from the usual banter from guys/kids who don't own a Porsche or a 996. Has anyone monitored the failures of the 3.4L in a scientific manner. I'm looking fro real statistics. IE - Liner issues, cylinder faliures, is #2 the weak cylinder (see link), etc. It appears my #2 is done. Trying to decide what to do. New 3.6 motor or turbo would require a LOT of work - new harness and pedal clusters etc. Open to ideas." - racerjsz "Looks like a new engine is on it's way...." - newport996 "Mine is replaced too." - neil.schneider "I have a 2000 911 Cabriolet 34,000 miles. Last month the engine was overheating bigtime. When I brought it to Jack Daniels of Fairlawn NJ I was told it needed a new engine. Once the mechanic saw radiator fluid mixed with oil he knew it was the engine block. I have since had a new engine installed." - hmseiger "I see that there is an opinion by Doc that the value will be lower if you have a remanufactured engine in place of a new one. Is there any way to substantiate that. I am in a fight with Porsche as the dealer said he would put in a new engine , but when I got it , it was a remanufactured engine." - mort "I have now come across 2 996's for sale that have both had the engine's replaced by Porsche...one low mileage 21k and the other high mileage 76k. - sherri "My well-priced '99 came with a fresh motor from Porsche and it detonated again (the seals) in just 15,000 miles. Porsche split the difference on the third engine. I had a few other things taken care of (top mechanism, warped rotor, clutch shudder) when they did the third engine swap so the bill was about $12k after they split the new engine cost with me." - 996Cabby "My '02 996 was first registered in January of '02. First owner put about 14K miles on it through the summer of '03. I took delivery of the car in July of '03. Drove it for two days and the engine died. They flatbedded it to the nearest dealer where they started dismantling the engine to see what was wrong. Seems that the culprit was the cam actuators. Malfunction severly threw the timing of the engine off. decided to replace the engine with a re-conditioned one." - Nova87 "One of his cylinder sleeves lost adhesion, toasting his engine" - Jeff E. ------ now.. these are all problems not concerning RMS as far as I can tell.. maybe 2-3% of 996 owners visit these forums at most... that leaves 97% of 996 owners not being able to tell their story... look at the mileage on these cars.. 90% of them are under 50k miles.. 75% are under 30k miles it appears.. not to mention these figures are only for 2 years of postings.. not the 8, that this vehicle has been out.. and not counting the additional 6 years of additional engine problems not researched/posted/online.. and 97-98% of 996 owners as mentioned above that don't post online... considering engine replacements cost $12,000 to $18,000 a pop... i would think many of you would find these comments a bit disenchanting about the reliability of very very low mileage 996 engines.. as i did... remember, there is no bias by me in this post.. these are simply cold hard factual statements made by people relating to the 996 and the engine.. comments anyone?

You should be banned for using that much bandwidth! I'm bored, off to bed I go.

This whole thing seems still unscientific how many where sold? Remember pre g50 trans' How about the 2.7 liter? Y'all bought a very high performance auto Porsche ... there is no substitute Sorry to here about your probs and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for me, you and Porsche

Wow, talk about a suprise....had the 996 towed to Pfaff for a strange rattle in engine area yesterday...today the service mgr calls to let me know a new engine is on its way from Germany... So...car is an 2002 Targa with 18,500 km on it (12k miles for my American friends) Porsche dealer will be tgiving me a letter which states that the engine was replaced due to manafacturing defect. " - carbon_00 Bob - was this post from this forum? I would love to know if carbon ever got such letter so that I could send it to PCNA concerning my engine failure.

Pfaff is in europe.. good luck, completely different entity you are dealing with than the US.. the forums i looked in were this one, 6speedonline and roadfly.. regardless of what the dealer says.. _they told me the same thing.. manufacturing defect).. since my car was out of warranty, there was nothing they could do for me.. while sympathetic... (it appeared, but who knows) that didn't help when i got the bill...

Add me - Coolant light, fixed twice, white smoke, engine a mixer, out of warranty by 3 months, Porsche goodwilled remanufactured.

And then there was the 997.... I watched a 997S engine replacement due to broken piston rings.

Pfaff is in Ontario Canada near Toronto.

Thanks for the post. I wish I could be that efficient with 30 minutes of research! Sorry about your engine problems I can't imagine how I would react if I had an engine failure. This is the only reason that I went with an additional CPO 2 year warranty.

Bob as I may feel your pain, Porsche is a car, and they are mechanical and they break, I think you should do a poll on how many Viper motors broke, or maybe even Ferrari. I am not sure why or how you have had two blown motors, its one of 3 things. A) Your abusing the car or the more likely B) The people working on your car don�t know jack C) you have bad luck. I am sure its been a very frustrating situation, but on the bright side the BMW M3 motors have had way bigger problems then yours, like exploding. I think you must have real bad luck with your car. As I will never ever say any motor is bullet proof, remember the Titanic (The unsinkable) I will say this I have own many different types of cars From Corvettes, Mercedes, Ford Mustangs and other Porsches, The motor is my 996 is tough and strong, and if it breaks and if its out of warranty I will replace it. Its liking buying a house and needed new windows in 15 years, while you may not be happy to spend the money you do because that is what is required.

i work with computers for a living.. analytical research every day, so not too hard for me.. even these amount of numbers surprised me.. if you take the average of 2 years and 84 engines listed.. we're looking at a 996 owner on these forums every 8 1/2 days having an engine needing to be replaced at $12,000 to $18,000 a pop due to a non-rms related issue... take that statistical evidence how you want.. these posts of course are just the ones i found in 30 minutes, it could be even higher? i don't know.. i gave up searching after i found this many.. i think it proves my point quite nicely.. i searched for 993 blowups in the past 2 years, and had a hard time finding a single one, that just "randomly" needed to be replaced.. i've never been a strong 993 advocate.. but i can't help but side with choosing a 993 over a 996 if you purchase a used porsche without a cpo.. to each their own, but hopefully this information will help those looking to buy a 996 REALLY consider a CPO when buying their used porsche... it really is worth it's price in gold.. if only i had known before i bought mine... as by the quotes, we can all see, the service history doesn't really matter.. most all of these are well cared for cars with very very low mileage.. most are 10k to 15k when their engine fails.. just get a CPO.. and if you don't have a CPO, keep $15k in the bank just incase... other than that, enjoy the 996.. i've got another 8 months on my engine warranty, and you can rest assured it will be on the market well before then.. no way am i taking any chances owning this car out of warranty.. and for that 997 with the engine needing replacement... not surprising, same engine.. same problems..

Porsche sells 20k sports cars (ex Cayenne) a year here in the states. Let's assume that they have sold cars for at least 10 years. That's at least 200k cars on the road. You mentioned 84 global cases....collected in a most unscientific manner. That's 0.042% of US cars on the road. And frankly, we know they're are more Pcars on the road than that here, and many more worldwide. It wouldn't be too aggressive to assume that they're are at least 500k Pcars on the road out there. And for good measure, let's multiply your engine explosions by 10 just to be conservative. That's still only 0.168% of cars on the road. Dude, am I missing something here? Engine problems are a hassle. But an engine is complicated. RMS is complicated. If it were easy, it would not even be an issue. But at 0.17% of population having engine replacement (yes, I know, a dubious estimate...it's probably lower), I don't see Porsche going crazy. And don't forget that a lot of these engine problems happen under circumstances of which you and I are both unaware. I'm not trying to belittle this situation; one would expect and hope for an engine to last a good long time. But, a lot of the conclusions stem from irrational and emotion responses. If you really thought it was an issue deserving attention, put together a class, file a motion, and force Porsche to reveal accurate information on sales and engine replacements. Until then, we're ALL just bellyaching and boasting. Many of you who have had bad experiences will vote the ultimate way next car purchase round...with your wallets. Enjoy whatever car you get next time. I have had great experiences with the M3 in the past. It's a fine car. It never had engine problems when I had it, though the e46 did have a recall...but it was handled properly though illustrating that no one makes a perfect HIGH performance engine. These cars operate at such high tolerances that the failure ratio seems surprisingly small to me all things considered.

I understand and agree in many aspects... but by reading all the quotes above, isn't it a bit disconcerning to see the number of engine replacements needed due to faults in the engine at such alow mileage? dozens and dozens of engines needing replacement due to complete faluires below 15,000 miles of driving, due to non-rms related issues just by forum posters alone... doesn't that seem a bit high, for any modern vehicle? it doesn't look like these individuals are abusing their cars by any means.. how much damage can you possibly cause in such low mileage? these cars are meant to be driven and driven hard.. i already paid for my repairs and am warrantied, so i'm not so concerned, nor want sympathy.. but that doesn't mean i'm not upset at what happened with porsche and the 996 engine situation relating to everyone in my or a similar situation... i'm lucky i can afford such replacements, but that doesn't make it right... like the m3, there is an inherint problem... that nobody wants to seem to recognize.. or atleast ignore from what we have seen..

nyc, 20k sports cars a year in 1999 is about right... not sure about later dates.. but do you know how many of those are the 996 coupe and 996 cab with the m96 engine? 30% of porsche cars (not including the cayenne) sold are the 996 with the m96 engine... ask "don" who has the silver porsche with the misty license plate.. he posted figures awhile back he got from porsche.. so take 30% out of that 20k a year number you came up... i didn't count the 986/TT/GT3/GT2.. only 30% of porsche cars sold from 98-04, excluding the cayenne sold were the C2/C4 996 with the m96 engine.. where you came up with the 10 year number, i really don't know that either? these cars have been around for half that long.. 500,000 c2/c4 996s on the road? I don't think so.. do the math, and that's a total of 40,000 maybe at "most" of m96 porsches sold (6 1/2 years).. i don't know where you came up with the 500,000 number? the boxster numbers were very high (which have their own issues which i didn't even post or research and have similar problems..) which you seemed to forget mentioning.. as well as the tt/gt3 which has sold quite a few as well.. that don't seem to have any engine problems from my research... regardless, those statements are simply from owners postings.. i didn't even put in my experience... look at the low mileage.. don't you see anything wrong when engines fail at such extreme low mileage or is that just me?

Anyone notice that the vast majority of the cars listed had less than 20k miles on them and a large % around 10K or less. Wonder if these were caused by not following the proper break in recommendations.

As a stats professor myself, I find your reserch offensive and ignorant. If you were one of my students you would have received a F had you turned this in as your final paper. One last thing, you need to quit referring to it as statistical evidence and instead call it what it is.......anecdotal evidence. There is ONLY one place you are going to be able to obtain statistical evidence and that is house in a vault at PCNA and PAG. Scanning forums where people come to chat or bitch is not going to help back your claim.

Dell, you know how it is, %50 of all stats are bull****.

I must have missed that class when I was sleeping through my graduate studies Damn sorority girls!

if i was in school still i don't think i'd be driving a porsche.. or not driving one in my case most of the time i never referenced it as statistical evidence.. the individual before me indicated there were 500,000 c2 and c4s on the road and i simply made it out that the number was over 10 times more than the number out there.. make up your own beliefs as to what the statements by others mean in relation to engine failures.. i simply copy/pasted what i saw posted by others.. nothing more, nothing less.. each person can come to their own conclusions from what was posted by a variety of forum posters to come up with their own answer as to how this can affect them, whether it's regarding a potential 996 purchase, purchasing a cpo car, debating on buying a 996 or TT, gt3, etc.. what's the harm in posting all relevant engine failure data, to potentially come to some sort of correlation that can potentially help someone out from saving $12,000+? of course the data is not statistical.. like you said, only porsche has that, and they won't be giving it out any time soon.. it's the closest we can come to it, and doing some number crunching, it's as close as we will ever come.. so why not post the information out there to potentially help others?

I guess it was another Bob with the same ID that referred to it as statistical evidence.

You make a valid point. I made the mistake of counting all Porsche sports car when I should have just focused on the 996 series. In correction, and from Porsche earnings releases/press releases, they sold 29,545 911 cars last year worldwide. I'm just going to flatline that number going back since I don't have the energy to dig up exact sales of the 996 since its late '98 introduction. So, over 6.5 years, that works out to be 192,043 911s on the road ( I rounded up... ;-). Using your also back of the envelope calculations of 84 from web forum searches and again multiplying by 10 to be fairly aggressive, that still drives only a 0.437% incidence. Again, that's a margin of error, Bob. It's not to disrespect anyone; rather, let's just get some perspective.

ok my mistake, i did post that the statements were, quote "statistical evidence".. i didn't indicate into how they correlated into a certain forumula.. maybe that was the incorrect wording.. in summary it is evidence, that engine failures do happen and the statements by all of those individuals was simply were posted to back up my claim that i wasn't the only one, and that these engines "do" fail for a variety of reasons, and not necessarilly because of previous or current driver abuse.. clear enough? :>

i'm curious, where did you get that number of 29,545? in 1999 from what i've seen posted by don/misty from a porsche sales press release.. there were under 2000 996 coupes sold and under 4000 996 cabs sold in 1999. And once again, you are talking about "everyone" posting their engine failures to rennlist... what percentage of these alleged 192,043 911 owners do you think post to rennlist? maybe 1 out of 200 to be generous? so what about the other 199 out of 200 that don't come online to talk about their car that haven't posted about their engine failures.. where do they come into the equation with your schmetatics?

I just did a "statistical survey" on a heathcare forum and found that 97% of the posts were from people who were sick. That statistic can be extrapulated than there are more than 250,000,000 people in the united Sates that are sick. Wow. I'm going to the doctor.

I'm curious. Why would a company as sucessful as Porsche continue to manufacture an engine that was a big a service issue as you imply when they already have other choices in house? Pure economics would dictate that if the 996 engine was so faulty, they would have ditched it long ago and put in the 3.8L. These boards attract two types of folks for the most part. The one is the enthusiast, the other is the "burned" owner. The "statistics" you quote are from a very select group. Most owners just drive their cars to and from places and don't even know this forum exists.

Great one!

yes stats are quite ridiculous.. and can be biased.. but most people going to a healthcare forum as one would agree, are.. "looking for health care" :> the same could be said for rennlist.. 97% of the posts on rennlists have nothing to do with asking for help relating to their vehicle.. a said, only porsche has any true numbers, i simply posted statements of porsche owners and what they have said/indicated relating to engine failures.. it is evidence of engine failures.. and to what degree? nobody knows.. take the statements as you wish..

you guys seem to be missing the point.. once again, i copy/pasted "actual statements" of engine failures not caused by RMS.. i didn't say 1 in 5 cars, 1 in 38.9% cars, etc.. while i realize there are countless p-car fans out there on this board that don't like to see posts like this.. i simply reposted what "others" have posted.. you guys are looking, too much into it... as said in the original post.. take it as you wish... nobody here, or anyone not in the porsche exec offices has any real numbers.. anything else is simply a pure and random mythological guess.. if you are going to attack me, why not attack all the individuals that reported having an engine failure as well..? the only thing i did was copy/paste posts by others and put them together in one document for all to come to their own conclusions relating to this issue and to potentially use in relation to their current, future or past 996 vehicle.. in regards to this post, they can continue to do it, because individuals like me are shoving thousands of dollars in their face everytime one of their engines goes bad to pay for the replacements... -- Yes, and that's why 98% of the people that have potentially had engine failures as well, have never been able to post or vent about their problems... the 84 are simply from the 2% that actually access forums that i saw reported from 30 minutes of searching for the past 2 years of archives..

There were approximately 150,000 - 996's sold world wide. Sorry to see you having such a problem with your motor. I have 30k on mine and it has run strongly from day one. My car is driven regularly and has seen time on the track and autocross without a hiccup. You've collected a nice series of posts, but the conclusions that you make are wanting. An engine replacement does not equal a catastrophic failure of the engine. It shows that for many reasons, it is cheaper (at this time) to replace a motor than have it taken apart and fixed. This is assuming that the shop is even qualified to take apart a M96. Most shops don't have the expertise to do the work. Certainly the dealership do not. Nonetheless, it is upsetting to read about any issues in such an expensive car. They are however a Porsche tradition and yes the 993 and 964 motors have their own expensive issues. A search of the PCA technical advise web site will open a lot of peoples' eyes on these motors. No, it wasn't cheaper in the good old days. Porsches have and will be expensive to buy and maintain. As the years go by more and more competent Porsche shops will open up the M96 motor and figure out less expensive fixes. In time there will be a market of less expensive parts that will compete with Porsche of quality. This would have happened much sooner, but Porsche has kept people out of the M96 for years. Again, sorry to here about your engine problems.

While yes I agree the number of replacements are caused for a variety of reasons, but what it comes down to, is that these engines, "still" need a replacement.. regardless.. would it matter if it's a catastrophic failure or not? nope.. even if it's a small problem, if we are out of warranty, we still have to pay $12,000+ either way, correct? infact, i'd rather my engine be replaced after completely blowing up, than having to pay $12,000+ like joe because of a 59 cent internal part failure that needs to be replaced, that can't be replaced, because these engines are not rebuildable by dealers...

Bob, here's the quote from Porsche's website : "Dealers' deliveries of the 911 worldwide in the review year totaled 29,545 units, 21 percent more than in the 2003/04 fiscal year." They are referencing the 2004/2005 model year. I just extrapolated backwards (and yes, I know that last year's figure is implicitly stated as 24k given the growth rate). I know it is crap science and stat to do so, but as I mentioned, I was just way to lazy to look up the historical data. Even using only 29,545 units, your percentage is still only 2.8% for once year (and that's using your figure times 10). Wow, you are really thick headed about this issue. I get that you had a failure. I've had a friend struck by lightning while he was sailing, too. That doesn't mean I'm not going sailing any more. You follow?

Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that he doesn't follow.

I agree with Dell Bob, sorry for your problems. However, it seems very clear to me that your true motive it to extract revenge on Porsche. When this thread dies, will you open yet another thread?? Since you like "statistics" what percentage of your posts on this board have been negative?? Just curious....

This _has_ got to be the funniest thread I've read since the "I'm putting a V8 in my 911" days! P.S. What ever happened to that V8 guy, I think his name was George?

Good ole' curious George - I think he got banned. Bob sell your 996 and move on/get over it. It seems like slamming it has become an obsession with you. If you didn't want to pay Barrier/Park Place prices on your work you could have brought it up to Roger Jobs in Bellingham. We have great service department here and the current rate is $100 an hour.

Since it seems he can only count to 100, maybe that is part of the problem! j/k

It seems like you guy's have been hearing this from Bob forever and are just over him... All that aside... IMHO, if PCNA knows that there are engines that have failed. If you have a failure and it is diagnosed to be a "defect" than they should stand behind the car and replace the engine even if it is past the 4year 50K miles. I have had similar issues with Honda and Nissan and they both stepped up to the plate.. I had a Nissan pickup I bought new and it for some reason started to leak oil after the warrantee was out... They tried to fix it 3 times and it still leaked... So the regional rep approved to replace the short block and the problem was solved... Not a penny out of my pocket... I had to argue to get it done.. But they did it. I had a Acura Integra that had a tranny issue at 50K. The dealer pulled the tranny and said it had to be replaced or rebuiilt... It was always in for scheduled service. I called Honda and sent them every service record and after a week of going back and forth they replaced it at their cost... If it is questionable whether it was abuse, that is different.. But everyone should stand behind their products... If they have had issues in the past with a certain item, they should be much more open to helping out the customer who experiences the same issue. Oh, and when I had the problem with the Nissan, they had found record of 3 other trucks in the whole country having the leak problem and the fix was the short block... So they fixed mine.. How many Nissan pickups you think they sell in a year?

Gary, agreed one hundred percent. If you can prove that the problem is indeed genuinely Porsche's own and can produce service records detailing that you take care of the car, you might have a good shot of getting it done for free. But like Dell and others have said, when you buy used, you run the 'risk' that they may not buy your story. That's all. No one here is arguing that we wouldn't press Porsche to fix the engine for free. But, being the realists that many of us are, we might also accept the notion that Porsche says no because it's after warranty and there isn't enough proof to insinuate they PCNA and not the driver is at fault.

Bob - I for one found the quotes interesting, thanks for taking the time. Unfortunately, dealing with 911 owners is a lot like dealing with my mom, the devout republican. Bush could send in UN helicopters to remove her forcibly from her home, and she'd say "he must've had a good reason, he's a great man." I'm a little disturbed by the quotes, the number sounds pretty high, but I'm gonna keep doing what I always do - wind that morot to 7000 rpm and smile like a little kid.

Bob's analysis reminds me of a genetics study conducted in Scottish prisons. An outcome showed that most of the prisoners posses an extra Y chromosome. The flawed conclusion stated that men with an extra Y chromosomes are more prone to violent crimes, etc. What's flawed Bob is your sampled population. The time you wasted and result received is equivalent to walking into an unemployment office counting the people in the room and then trying to determine what percentage of US population is unemployed.... Give it a rest. Let people do their own DD, if you're so unhappy sell the car and buy a nice Camry

So women are more violent?

can't remember now...it was something to that extent...a popular study. I'll try to google it and post a link...

Here's something similar http://www.bookrags.com/sciences/gen...hesis-wog.html

XX=Female XY=Male

Damn it! I knew the girl from last night sounded a little hoarse...

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

How many of the 84 are "early learning" issues ? Didnt the 98-99 cars have issues with crankcase porosity (caused by the big demand for 996 and Boxters and the selected vendor not being able to meet the ramp ?), so the "patch" was to sleve the cylinder liners, which could slip in some instances and seize the engine ? Perhaps i dreamt this though :-). Once the supply chain was better in control, sleves were not longer needed and the engines were more reliable ?? Perhaps this learning process for the crank case casting caused other issues at first ?? As an engineer, if you want to understand reliability, plot a Duane model for reliability growth and do the Weibul analysis. Im sure you will see big items like the casting vendor issues being addressed and leading to reliability growth.

Karl B - I was having the same thought and you expressed it with more grace than I would have. The initial engine exchanges helped PAG idetify the problem and the porosity of certain castings was public knowledge. Regards,

yes, you guys are right.. the porsche engine is a 100% perfectly working engine.. it's perfectly normal to have dozens and dozens of people post on the internet about their new cars having their engines needing replacement at 4000 miles, 300 miles, 6000 miles, etc.. almost every new car released these days has to have their engine replaced to this mileage.. it's like an oil change <g> yes i have had issues to be lenient with my porsche, but the whole porsche engine out warranty thread with so many denying any engine problems "ever" really set me off, when that is not the truth at all.. if i save someone from having to shell out $12,000 that can't afford to replace their engine, and be able to spend the money on something that they really need to, then that's all i can ask for... i understand the devout porsche enthusiasts out there, but once again, as repeated over and over again.. I simply copy and pasted statements of replaced engines due to non-rms releated issues by "others" and assembled them together, so maybe or hopefully individuals can learn the correlation between them, maybe to save $12,000+ or more? one thing I noticed is the huge amount of 99 engines being replaced, in comparison to the 00.. for every 10 99 engines replaced, maybe 1 00 engine was mentioned.. so in essence, potentially buying a 00 might make more sense than a 99 if you are buying a car out of warranty? and after seeing these numbers, the 99 engine i had that went out at 8,000 miles due to a cylinder sleeve lining, it makes more sense why the engine went out at such low mileage.. potentialy there was a design flaw in the early 99 engines that porsche decided not to tell us about? the attacks are really unnecessary, even though i can understand that some of you are such devout porsche fanatics, that you hate to see anything negative ever posted about your love affair with the marque you've had since you were a kid.. which is understandable... take what you want from the post.. each person that responded never had to pay for an engine replacement out of their own pocket... do you think that would change if you had to? i think many would agree yes... regardless, as said, take the post for what it is... "copy and pastes" of non-rms related engine replacements... and that's all.. maybe it wil help in choosing what kind of car to buy, maybe it will help on deciding which car to sell.. to each their own... anyways i'm off to breakfast :> --- "Frankly, I have never know one Porsche driver personally that had an engine require replacement. Never. So, here's the conclusion that I take from my own experience and NOT the anecdotal experience of one guy who had a hole in his engine core and felt compelled to have it repaired not once, but twice, but the same lunatic independent repair shop: These cars work, last a good long time, and are fun as hell to drive." - NYCEBO

Sell the god damn car, Bob and get on with your life. You are obviously not satisfied with Porsche, so why bother. Buy a ricer and stay bored for the rest of your life. Sorry.....

Bobporsche - I think some folks are being harsh. No, the engine is not perfect. Nothing is. With something like 100,000 996's on the road, some of them are going to have problems. It's a matter of degree and how PCNA treats the customers. I'm sure you are aware that Audi had to replace a bunch of V8's in the orignal V8 S6 and that BMW is recalling M5's for serious engine problems (with replacements). This happens. If it is 1 percent then there will be 99 happy customers and one angry one. In fact it looks to be a lot less than that. As nycebo said, I have never heard of a single 996 needing a new engine and I am the CI for the region. We have about 600 people a season doing DE and lots of them have M96 engines. No failures that I have seen. I don't say failures are an illusion - no way. Rather they aren't as frequent as you think. Best,

bob, that is good to hear.. the less engine problems the better for all of us.... i was simply caught offguard when i caught the staggering amount of individuals complaining about engine replacements.. i do think it is quite interesting though looking at the numbers of engine replacements in the 99s and 02s vs the other years.. those were the first years of both the engines and both appear to have the most replacements.. not to say to stay away from buying a 99 or an 02 out of warranty, but it may make more sense, as there appears to be less inherint risk.. but of course, nobody has any total numbers, so that's just making an assumption as well.. as said before, take the post for what it is, and make what you want of it... the difference between the audi and the bmw though is that they are indeed paying for the replacement.. while many of us porsche owners are left out in the cold with the bill.. but anyways, enough about that.. ..gotta finish some work today, so i'm out..

Does everyone realize that Porsche is a company which is supposed to make money just like any other and return value to shareholders? If they make a product that you want to buy, then thats a good thing. No-one is holding a gun to your head to buy one after all. No-one makes a perfect product, and if they did then they would be out of business pretty quickly and the time-to-market would be horrible. Every product will go thru a reliability learning curve. The first water cooled Porsche engines had a problem ? To me thats not a surprise. They came with a warranty after all. Less that 1% failure is pretty damn good for the first introduction of new technology and manufacturing methods. If you want Aerospace reliability, then you will have to pay for it. It takes time, money and resources to pay for the testing... having said that the Space Shuttle exploded too :-)

One thing you might want to take into consideration is that the majority of posts on internet forums will arise from owners who have moderate to serious problems with their cars, people who do not have many problems simply will not post. It is unfortunate that the internet has become a place for so much negative information. Although there is a good bit of information about what to look for in a car, most of the time (as with this thread it seems) someone will post out of pure disgust that their car has or had a problem. It is not backed by rock solid facts but facts of a minority of car owners who many times will provide anyone who does not have the correct information with false information. I currently have 64000 miles on my 99 996 cab with no engine problems or rms issues to date. I followed break in instructions, serviced the car regularly and did not rag the car the entire time I have owned it. Unfortunately for many of the Porsches sold they live a tough life of abuse and neglect when it comes to the engines. Many people do not know how to take care of a Porsche or any car for that matter. It is unfortunate that these problems have come up with your car and so many others, but this does not mean that all of these cars are junk and IT WILL happen to you. Porsche should have taken into consideration the driving style and service neglect many of these cars will be subjected to. They could have saved themselves a lot of money. This is my first post on this site and I am not here to ruffle any feathers amongst the regulars to this forum, much of the information is helpful to many owners who actually know their Porsche inside and out. It is good you put the information out there for people to read, unfortunately there are many people who will take some of this "research" and lose sleep thinking about when their engine will blow up. Now, everyone take another Zoloft and go drive their Porsche with a smile. (Unless your engine is blown up of course)

Dam it. Now my throat feels sore. I wonder if there's a connection between my sore throat and the 997 I drove today?

Get Bob to check you out...then again don't, he might diagnose you with Scarlet Fever! You know how he see's the worst in things!

This is more like malaria.... just when you think it's better, it recurs. I'll repeat my contribution from last time then: Monologue is one person talking to himself. Dialogue is two persons talking to themselves -Shaike Ofir

Although in the minority, there are those of us who think Bob has a valid pint. I have dedended him previously when attacked. I don't really see his posts as offensive to me or the marque for that matter. I have no idea whet the perecentage of failures is, but I do believe that Porsche should stand behind the engines if the problemis a known manufacturng defect, regardless of whether the car was bought new or used. In most cases, it certainly appears the dealer can determne how the car has been driven from the DME, and assuming regular mtce records are available, PCNA has enough data to make informed decision. To reinforce Nutbeems point, I had a 82 Supra with 70+k miles that blew an engine two years after the warranty. The dealer determine the fault to be a defect and Toyota provided a revuilt engine. The dealer gave me brother in law labor rates and threw in a new radiator, hoses, and a few other things as I recall. I have owned quite a few Porsches and live me boyhood ream everytime I turn the key on the right side of the wheel, but I am disappointed in Porsche for not stepping up to the plate for guys like Bob. Maybe they think offerring the 10k rebuilt motor that probably costs them much more to build is enough. Perhaps it is, but not to Bob, and he has a right to his opinion and deserves your respect, not your derision. There, I have defendd him again, so put me on ignore

Unknown history-can't get around that

100% agree with you Woody. BTW first post, lets get some pictures of the P!!!

I have owned quite a few Porsches and live me boyhood ream everytime I turn the key on the right side of the wheel, but I am disappointed in Porsche for not stepping up to the plate for guys like Bob. The suspicion that some of us have is that Bob's car was abused by a prior owner. Remember all we are getting is Bob's version of what transpired.

Bob, Your casual study simply suffered from sampling bias, which made the problem look much more common than it really is. That's not to say a failing M96 is not an issue and I hope PCNA has taken care of the owners (that's another issue). The M96/97 has not matured and is quite a good engine and as I've stated before, an engine replacement does not mean a broken engine. It reflects the fact that very few shops exist that can repair a M96 and it has been cheaper to send them back to Porche for a fix. Autofarm, in the UK, seems is putting together a fix for the early M96 engines. Their foray into the market may lead others to offer this service to the many M96 owners world wide. Good luck with our Porsche.

Keeping things in perspective, I just spent over 10k for a complete rebuild of my 3.0L SC motor. I should have bought a M96 and stuck in my SC!

Bob, It seems you are a bit obsessed about the bad fortunes that occured to you and the Porsche brand. It also seems you have FAR too much free time on your hands and for the life of me I cant explain your countless hours on this forum rehashing and kicking that dead horse about your time as a Porsche owner, let it go and move on. What is your motivation for this? Do you want all us Porsche owners to say "Yes Bob you are right and I will sell my piece of crap Porsche 911 because the engine is going to blow up and I hate it, you've convinced me". Get real pal, what do you expect? I for one LOVE driving, looking, and smelling my Porsche car everyday!!! You don't and so what, I for one am TIRED of hearing it!!!! You dont like the Porsche brand, well no one is holding a gun to your head to own one......buy a honda.

I think my key is on the left side of the wheel... (it's early though)

Intermediate bearings have little to do with breakin. Unseated rings w high oil consumption is usually breakin related. Jeeze I was coasting with 41K miles watching for a RMS leak. Now I going to start thinking of getting rid of the 996 again.

Most all of the time this happens is when I comment on someone else that has to replace their blown engine, then people seem to associate that with me, because i have been the most vocal about porsche and their neglect for customer satisfaction or even care.. since I have knowledge about the issue (to say the least) does that equate to not allowing me to speak on an issue i dealt with for 5 months? why not go off on the people talking about rms all the time? i never had rms.. and i think people that have had it 4 or 5 times, have all the right in the world to comment on someone posting about rms concerns and issues... i would think the same holds to me, when someone posts about their engine failure.. when i had 2 engine failures in 1100 miles.. one at 8,000 miles on a brand new engine due to faulty manufacturing by porsche in 98 due to the cylinder sleeve lining issue.. you're right, porsche engines are bulletproof.. those 84 examples of non-rms replacements are all flukes by newbies.. there really is no m96 engine that has needed to be replaced due to faulty manufacturing from porsche... people continue to bring up my name and my engine problems because i'm the only porsche 996 owner that has ever had any engine issues, right... why do you think bmw finally starting replacing engines free of charge for the m3 owners? because it became a serious problem and people wouldn't stand for it anymore.. if everyone wants to be content with such problems as these and RMS, all the power to them, but don't come crying to this site when you have RMS or an engine malfunction, as I have seen countless times.. and then try to sell the car and lose thousands because a buyer won't pay your asking price because of a faulty rms caused by a faulty engine that porsche refuses to acknowledge.. "i used to be one of those people that had full faith in the porsche engine.. until i had to have mine replaced... or i used to criticize people about rms, then i finally got it, etc.." just wait till you have to shell out $12,000+ like the countless others on these forums and see if your opinion changes.. porsche needs to step up to the plate, and if they created faulty manufactured engines, they should atleast cover their faulty manufacturing... as we all know, in late 98 manufacturing models of the engine, there was a slight run of defective engines.. some of these engines lasted for years, out of warranty period, but eventually blew up due to their original faulty manufacturing.. should that mean that porsche shouldn't be liable, even though they were responsible for creating a faulty product? if you bought a new house, and found out 4 years later after the home warranty period expired, that inside the walls, they used faulty electronic wiring that caused a fire, do you think that is the owner of the home's fault for not discovering the faulty wiring when they originally bought the house by breaking a hole in the walls and spending $20k to diagnose if the wiring was faulty or not? that's how many class action lawsuits against homebuilders start, and most all of the time the homeowners win or come to a settlement... if you want to accept substandard and neglect, all the power to you.. but nobody makes change, by being content.. why do you think the 997 was released with the same engine that had the same RMS problems.. no lawsuit, nothing.. they got away with it in the 996, so why not keep doing it? contentness breeds mediocritity.. which was shown when the 997 was released with the exact same issues the 996 engine had.. while this is a small part of the porsche "experience", it is still nonetheless a concern for many... when paying $100k for a car, one would expect to be treated with atleast some respect.. porsche feels that not to be the case.. if you are content with that, all the power to you.. but there are some of us that aren't, and that's what is so great about this country, is free speech... read what you want, and if you don't like it, then don't read it... just like switching channels on a television... if you look at the polls... 1/2 of all people on this forum are concerned about the reliability of their porsche out of warranty.. i would consider posts such as these to be a slight bit of interest with such a high poll rating, wouldn't you? just like how you don't have to read posts about what size wheels to get, you don't have to read posts like these.. nobody is forcing you to read what others may find informative... from my research, i gathered that for every 10 99 engines replaced, only 1 00 engine was replaced after they fixed the problems in the 99 defects... now if i was considering buying a p-car out of warranty, it would seriously make me reevaluate the model year i purchased by evaluating the comments on posts such as these... if you consider that to be unimportant, fine, but to some, they may find it instrumental in their purchase or evaluation of keeping/trading/buying/selling/getting a warranty when it comes to their p-car...

No, Pfaff is at the north end of Toronto, in Ontario Canada.

Hey Bob, in any group of folks there are going to be some that have a passionate opposing opinion. Many times on this board , owners have bought into the romance. Man... its just a car..... Cars break and sometimes they're not put together right. I'm glad you posted, I was getting complacent and this was a reminder...... (BTW where's Bernie when you need him?)

You've pretty much captured my sentiments on the matter. Initially I thought Bob was a troll, but as time passed, I became convinced that his story was true. It's tough putting yourself in anyone elses shoes, but I know that I wouldn't be very happy if I had the same experiences as Bob. As we all know buying used cars is a gamble, and that's doubly true for high performance used cars. I believe that there are lessons to be learned by reading Bob's posts, and the primary one is to reduce your risk by getting a CPOed Porsche. Personally, I never would own any German car not covered by a warranty. The price of parts and labor is just too high, especially when something catastophic happens.

In discussing the situation with my dealer, he noted that they had experienced many of the aforementioned problems with 1999 thru 2001 model years. But as years progressed fewer mechanical problems were being encountered. This does not imply that later years are bulletproof. One problem that Porsche encountered with the 996 was nothing of their doing. In examining engines that were replaced due to crankshaft bearing or intermediate bearing failure, they discovered that some owners had drained and replaced the 0W-40 with 15W-50. In doing so under cold conditions bearings were being starved for lubrication, resulting in bearing failure. I offer this example with the caveat that we must be carefull in laying all the blame at Porsche's feet.

I feel for you bob, with what had happen to you and your experience with porsche but its only common sense that you will get some engines that will fail due to minor/major reasons given the mass productions numbers. If it didn't then we would live in a perfect world. There will always be some sour apples in an apple tree. On the other hand, porsche should atleast helped you out with some of the costs of the engine replacement.

Why? We simply don't know how the car was treated before Bob owned it. We simply cannot get away from that fact. There is no way in hell if I was Porsche that I would just sling a motor his way. Why should they? Porsche has nothing to do with it. It was owned by someone else before Bob, traded or auctioned to a Ford Dealer, then worked on buy an independant mechanic and you say Porsche should help out. This whole argument is ABSURD.

I agree.

Porsche really does care about their cars check out the link. http://www.autonet.ca/Maintenance/Re...1/1389333.html

Yeah, it only took 30 cars for them to figure that out. QUOTE=nvrenuftoyz]Porsche really does care about their cars check out the link. http://www.autonet.ca/Maintenance/Re...1/1389333.html [/QUOTE]

old news.

What I dont understand is that you continue to own a Porsche? There must be something that draws your interest no? Its very simple, if you think Porsche is a crap car company that doesn't stand by their products just sell your car and buy another brand. I cannot stop you from posting on here your negative thougts on Porsche etc. BUT if you are so unhappy just sell the damn car and walk away, enough said!!!!! You will NEVER convince me that my car isn't spectacular!!!!!!!!!!

I bought an SL55 earlier this year and also have an 750iL I still have another 10 months or so on my warranty for my replacement engine, tranny, flywheel, radiator, starter, ignition, srs air bag light, coolant box, i'll leave it at that.. basically i have 10 months of CPO The 996 is NOT a crap car.. my concerns have been about the complete degredation of the marque of porsche that has absolutely no customer satisfaction or care of any kind.. some of the quality concern issues relating to concerns relating to manufacturing defects they refuse to acknowledge which has been my primary grudge... when you call 1-800-POR-SCHE and ask if they know what RMS is, and they play dumb.. what does that tell you about what they think about the customers? they think we are all a bunch of rich dumbasses that shouldn't be concerned about problems and just pay out our ***, regardless if it's their fault or not... I will enjoy the next 8 months or so of having it under warranty, as it is a great car to drive, but after that is up, the 996 is GONE.. no way in hell am i owning a 996 out of warranty... 996 warrantied? great choice.. 996 without a warranty.. pass..

The SL55 looks really nice in white, beautiful car.

thank you, it's nice to see a compliment once in awhile been loving it.. 8000 miles in a few months.. had a little problem with one of the plastic parts of the floormats coming apart and mercedes replaced not one, but both of them free of charge, no questions asked and also threw in a free detail and wash for my troubles.... that's the service i like when buying a $100k+ car.. :>

Well my brides car , an 05 CLK (9 mos old) has been in the dealer at least 6 times. The latest is an electronic part for the nav that she was told had to be manufactured specially and the wait was 6-8 weeks. Can you believe they don't have spares for a '05 car or they wouldn't replace the entire unit? BTW it's past the 8 weeks. I don't think PAG has a lock on these types of issues. I'm happy for your experiences with MBZ...

yeah many german cars do have their electronic gremlins.. that's one part about the porsche that must give props too.. it doesn't have too many electronic problems compared to other german vehicles.. surprised about the part you are talking about.. very odd..

i am wondering how many of the 84 cars is tiptronic ? imo i think it would make diffrence because manual can be easily abused or miss used reving on neutral , downshifting to wrong gears , acceleating to red limiter those all affect the engine and by time they can cause major damage -------- add to the 84 +1 a friend long time back rather than shifting from 4-5 ... he downshifted to from 4 to 3 and the engine is gone ..

I was using right as the opposite of wrong, not left. But then I guess that would make my 968 wrong

This is a good read and at least worth reviewing for the potential buyer.

Did you really just bump a thread that is about to turn 10 years old? Holy **** 2006 was 10 years ago

Some of the older threads are incredible because they show if the posts were able to predict the future about a particular issue or engine problem. In this case its amazing and would benefit anyone new here looking for info.

Just another way tone disruptive.

To be

Quotes source post: 12796375

This is a good thread that explains how terrible of a job the original poster made at attempting to draw a statistitical conclusion on anecdotal data. This is also a good thread that illustrates how insanely worthless of a forum member you are and how much of a troll you are