718 GTS 4.0 - is it special enough as a 'last' ICE? - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

With the imminent demise of the 718 ICE cars, I've found myself thinking about 718 GTS 4.0 litre cars, both Boxster and Cayman. I recently sold my daily driver 987.2 Cayman and I'm picking up it's replacement, a lovely aqua blue 981 Boxster 2.7 PDK, this Thursday. I also have a very track focussed Caterham R300, it's a special spec that's taken me a long time to upgrade and it's incredible to drive on track and throughout the summer, especially given I live near to some amazing driving roads. Despite being excited about the Boxster's arrival, I can't help thinking the time is fast approaching to get that 'last' ICE car to store away for good, especially as I have the funds to do it and MrsGP is on side. I'm tracking the Caterham less and less and my attitude to the risks driving it are changing as I get older, in short I worry about the consequences of being hit by another car and it diminishes the fun factor. If I sold the Caterham (and there would be no going back, I'd struggle to get anything like mine again without spending a disproportionate amount) would swapping it for a manual GTS 4.0 be in any way comparable? I wouldn't want to track it, but I would want to have a similar sense of occasion and that 'special' feeling when taking it out on an early morning run in the summer. If not, should I stretch to a 718 Spyder or GT4? It's obviously a great problem to have but I'm prone to over-thinking/obsessing about these sorts of decisions so any guidance is appreciated

TL;DR Yes - it’s exactly what I did. I got myself a manual GTS 4.0 and I see it as the last modern mid engine, naturally aspirated manual car from Porsche. Only other alternative would be the Emira? GTS 4.0 / GT4 / Spyder all roughly the same with few small trade-offs depending on the case. Do note that with the way electric cars are going (hitting a growth stumbling block and the impracticality of building the necessary infrastructure by 2035), it’s likely that we will see some sort of reversal / extension, so it’s hard to predict what will happen in 2+ car generations.

New 4.0 GTS are over £90k on the Porsche website or a well specd GT4 under 1 year are the same price. I bought a new GT4 MY23 as they are the last ICE models and it’s ace. Had a 981S before which was also great fun. Have a Macan GTS for the daily drive I picked up new last year and will see if I can get another build slot before they cease production as well

Best Porsche i've owned, and while my back catalogue is not huge I've had a couple of GT cars. The GTS 4.0 package is just sensational in every way. I only sold mine for family reasons and miss it a lot. Mine was a PDK, but that's just a personal choice. The exhaust seemed to get better/louder across the first 3k miles and I thought it sounded lovely. Handling, ride, space, tech, usability all spot on.

Not sure GPF equipped cars will be what enthusiasts want to drive on a Sunday morning in a few years time. Maybe the 4.0 does qualify as there was nothing like it before but a great spec manual 981 GTS is a sort after car already.

You definitely won't be disappointed with a 718 4.0 GTS even in PDK form but I wonder what you mean by " sticking away for good " ?

In 2011 I went from R400 to 987.2 Spyder, and more latterly to 718 Spyder. Nothing compares to a Seven for a blat. The Spyder though does do things “better”. Nowhere near as immediate, but is very well engineered and cultured. And your luggage stays dry! I think quite a few have had a Spyder after a Seven, and the roof is part of the appeal - a Boxsterham if you like. I prefer open top to closed, so Boxster rather than Cayman. GTS is the sensible road based option, but the Spyder has something extra special if it’s for high days and holidays.

Whether it's special enough as a last ICE car depends on your budget I guess. Perhaps it's not as special as a GT3 or various Astons, Ferraris, McLarens. But for £80-£90k-ish new, there's not much to touch it. Mustang Dark Horse perhaps re the engine, but of course it's a very different sort of car. I've had my 4.0 GTS since November 2020 and I have no intention of changing it unless it breaks. It replaced a 981 GT4, and before that I hade a 987.1 Cayman S from March 2006. I love Caymans. I also have an E90 M3 and a GR Yaris which I have chosen carefully as my ICE cars to keep until they break. I would replace the GR Yaris with the new model if I can get one, but otherwise I will happily stick with what I have. Love them all!

As ever the best advice would be to drive and spend time in a GTS GT4 and Spyder and decide which you prefer. Quite a gap between each car depending on your requirements.

Thank you all for the replies and insights so far. To answer some of the points made... I guess what I'm trying to find out is whether a GTS 4.0 (or Spyder/GT4 if I were to stretch the budget) would be special enough to compete in any meaningful way with the driving experience of the Caterham and if I would be happy to swap it out. With the 718 going to EV shortly and other sports cars following suit (Lotus, Caterham etc) I feel it's getting closer to the time when I settle on the best ICE car my budget allows and keep it very long term. I've always had a sunny day/weekend car in the garage as well as my daily driver so naturally I want something that has that sense of occasion and specialness the daily lacks. I accept C3m's point that we might have a bit more time to do this than I might think right now and that it's hard to predict what will happen in the future. Part of the appeal of the 718 GTS/Spyder/GT4 is that it's doable and I love the way the Boxster and Cayman drive. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a GT3 I also fully accept I need to go and drive them as av185 says before I make a final decision.

I had a GTS 4.0 for 18 months, it was a fantastic car, did everything well, refined enough when needed and a blast on the track. I found it lacked some of the experience that my Elise had for a purely weekend car though, so I chopped it in for a slightly older 718 Spyder. Not regretting that decision one bit, and I've only had it through winter. Roll on summer! As others have said, try all 3 (GTS, GT4, Spyder) and see what ticks the most boxes.

Its the only way really and just one more point if you like the rawness and driver focus of a Caterham you would probably prefer the GT4/Spyder with buckets. GT3 chassis and more powerful higher revving engine v the GTS adds to the overall appeal. On the road imo the GT4 is 85% of a GT3 at roughly half the price. Edited by av185 on Tuesday 13th February 21:45

I have been fortunate to have E46 M3, E92 M3 and C43 AMG as daily drivers. They have all been fantastic and amazing cars in their own right. I then moved to Cayman 2.5s and now a 4.0 GTS. I can honestly say the GTS is the most awesome, fantastic car of those I have owned for daily use. However, I have had a TVR T350C for 13 years and it is still the car that has put the most sweat, fun and smiles on my face. BUT, it is a different car and is it not a fair comparison to the Porsche, the same way the Caterham experience will not be comparable. If you can have both do so as they are for different occasions and experiences.

Your priority is for it to feel special and to be as close to the Caterham as possible. The Spyder would be the closest to meeting your requirements. A left field choice might be a 997 GT3. Ps. I note that you used to have a Clío 172. I’ve just added a tracked out one of these to my collection. Picking it up tomorrow.

Hmm... I've have a 981 GT4 for about 5 1/2 years, and a Cayman GTS 4.0 for about 6 months that I use pretty much every day. Both have manual gearboxes. The GT4 has the Club Sport cage and extinguisher, carbon buckets, and 6-point harnesses. A long while (over 20 years) back I used to drive a lot of Caterhams with various engine specs, and some derivatives with ludicrous engines (Westfield SEight was pretty memorable, can't remember who made the even wider bodied thing with the Cosworth YB Turbo engine in it, but that was absolutely mental.) Short answer is "no". The Porsches are much too refined, nothing like "direct" feeling enough. Because the aerodynamic drag is so much less they also go too fast on the road, rather than hitting a comforting wall of drag that means the top speed isn't totally ludicrous, despite ridiculously quick acceleration. Of all the "Sevens" I had the pleasure of driving, the best all rounders were the Caterhams, and they were at their best with 1.6 - 2.0 litre NA 4-cylinder engines, ideally that you could hang a few revs on the get the power. I'm not saying the GTS 4.0 is less than brilliant, and it's as quick as anyone could really need a road car to be. Puts a smile on my face every morning, but there really isn't that much of a sense of occasion. 2-way sports plus seats, heated, as is the leather multifunction sports steering wheel, probably take a little away from that. I'm 57, so in a good way, creature comforts can be a good thing! The 981 GT4 does have a bit more sense of occasion. Slightly more obnoxiously loud, less refined to drive, and handles amazingly after a good suspension setup. Also has brakes that squeal at slow traffic speeds once you have cooked them properly at track speed, every underbody noise transmitted straight through to the passenger compartment. This includes the electric handbrake's inner workings, and every tiny stone that hits a rear strut reverberating through the slightly creaky rear roll-cage. I'm probably not selling it, but it's a visceral and thoroughly enjoyable experience. I've driven a manual 718 GT4, and it has some of those traits, but they definitely knocked off some of the rough edges of the 981, and I'd miss them. (Oh, and the exhaust note. GTS 4.0 and 718 GT4 sound better than anyone would have you believe, but the 981 GT4 absolutely howls in comparison.) Does it get close to the Caterham sense of occasion? It's different, and it's really good, but for me it really doesn't. If it rained a little less often where I live, I'd definitely be considering a Caterham as a weekend/trackday alternative. You really do need to drive a few of these before you decide. Maybe not the quite the same feeling leaving the drive on a sunny Sunday morning, but not the same doesn't mean not as good. My gut feel is that while brilliant, and plenty fast, the GTS 4.0 is just a bit too refined. Liam

If you want a last ICE car that has that special feeling for a morning blast while also being surprisingly good to use regularly and track also - can I suggest you consider an Exige 410 Sport. I have had 13 Caterhams (cross flow to 620R and most others in between) over the decades, so I know a little bit about them . I chose to replace my 620R with the Exige a couple of years ago - never regretted it for even a second.

Can't help on the Caterham, i'm not enough of an 'enthusiast' (whatever that means) to go-kart my way around the country lanes so I can only speak on this subject if your consideration is GTS v GT4 v Spyder. I owned a Spyder before my GTS. A GTS is 95% of the GT4. Same engine and performance, save for 200 rpm higher rev limit. GT4 feels harder, less compromising but that sounds like what you want. Spyder is just a GT4 without a roof basically. It's a lot of money to spend to make a wrong decision. Even with strong residuals you'll dump a load of money on the buy/sell spread so definitely drive them first. I'd just drive a Spyder and if that is close enough then there's your benchmark, as GTS will feel softer and more refined by comparison.

Thanks again all, great advice all round (especially LiamH66) and it's all very helpful. Lots for me to think about and it's obvious that this isn't going to be decided until I drive the cars in question. I just don't like wasting mine and dealer's time doing test drives on cars I'm not going to buy, so a bit of PH insight in to the choices to narrow things down is great. I also know I'm a bit guilty of wanting to have cake and eat it here, in that I want to mix a raw driving experience with refinement so my expectations have been suitably managed Grantstown, enjoy the Clio 172, I also had a 182 in my younger days and they're hilarious little cars! Finmac, thanks for the suggestion on the Exige 410, I hadn't considered this, so I'll do some reading. I'll update this thread again as and when I've done some test drives and arrived at more of a decision.

LiamH66 said: Hmm... I've have a 981 GT4 for about 5 1/2 years, and a Cayman GTS 4.0 for about 6 months that I use pretty much every day. Both have manual gearboxes. The GT4 has the Club Sport cage and extinguisher, carbon buckets, and 6-point harnesses. A long while (over 20 years) back I used to drive a lot of Caterhams with various engine specs, and some derivatives with ludicrous engines (Westfield SEight was pretty memorable, can't remember who made the even wider bodied thing with the Cosworth YB Turbo engine in it, but that was absolutely mental.) Do you mean the older Dutch Donkervoort D8 Cosworth maybe with wide-track? standard they came in at around 220 hp but some had 360 or more in the lightweight. Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 14th February 13:16

How does the GTS 4.0 sound?

Cheib said: Not sure GPF equipped cars will be what enthusiasts want to drive on a Sunday morning in a few years time. Maybe the 4.0 does qualify My view too. I test drove a 4.0 manual Boxster and was very disappointed with the engine sound, at idle in particular. Before I get shot down it is probably one of the best modern engines that you can buy so if you want a car built in the last few years without a turbo, with a manual box and great handling then it is the obvious choice. Personally I would buy older as we hit peak ICE a while back. As for a Caterham, I've driven loads on the track and road and nothing gets close but now I am old the risk in being in one on the road does not work for me especially as a 2500kg car will be normal in the future so the accident risk is too great. Edited by EC2 on Wednesday 14th February 13:28

Personally I think you are looking at the wrong brand. My ICE keeper is my RWS R8. I have had it from new in 2018 and it’s still here after a procession of Porsche GT cars. The 5.2L V10 on its optional Audi sports exhaust is just fantastic. No GPF’s here just 8400RPM of 605 BHP automotive nirvana, it’s in a totally different world to the 4.0L flat 6. Unbelievable value for money now. I would guess at 20K miles mine is worth less than the cost of a decent 718GT4. Which is a bargain for a bona fide super sports car from the class above. The only thing a GT4 does better in standard form is a bit of track work. However there are lots of upgrades for the Audi; brakes, suspension, aero kits etc etc. which make it far superior. The R8 platform with its double wishbone suspension all round is not a multiple GT race car winner for nothing

The right flavour of Exige or the right flavour of R8 as an ICE car to keep for the ages is an excellent shout, particularly if it's primarily going to be used for fun rather than also needing to be a daily or at least semi-daily proposition. In those circumstances I'd almost certainly go for an Exige. The right flavour for me would be the 390 Final Edition. My own choices (GTS 4.0, E90 M3, GR Yaris) all have a degree of daily practicality about them. The GTS and the GR Yaris can also withstand occasional trackday usage well enough. In my experience, the Exige has much better steering feel than the 981 and 718 cars and rides very well too, but it's far less of an all-round proposition and has some ergonomic compromises (which aren't dealbreakers, but partly explains why I chose what I have!) An R8 is quite a big and wide car, which may limit the sort of roads on which you might seek enjoyment - especially compared to a Caterham.

Swine Enthusiast said: How does the GTS 4.0 sound? Very good from the driver's seat at high revs, in my opinion. Quieter outside than a 981 GT4 and with a deeper note, I see this as a bonus as compared to the 981 GT4 when it comes to trackday noise limits and the like. And because it's a GTS and not a GT4, I think being a quieter car is in keeping with its relatively stealthy look. I can see why 718 GT4 buyers might want more noise, but I think it suits the GTS 4.0's remit well. Definitely sounds like a proper flat 6.

GTRene said: Do you mean the older Dutch Donkervoort D8 Cosworth maybe with wide-track? standard they came in at around 220 hp but some had 360 or more in the lightweight. You got me mining deep memories with that question, and sadly I had to use Google's help in the end! Not the Donkevoort, which I was always interested in, but never got to play with one. I was thinking of a Dax Rush with a Cosworth YB turbo engine. (I'd also driven another in Rover V8 engined guise back in those days, and I preferred it to the Westfield SEight.) The one with the YB engine made about 280 bhp at the back wheels after I'd mapped it, so well over 300 at the flywheel. Knowing this made me suitably cautious when road testing afterwards. Wasn't a complete handful, but was very, very quick. I'm not sure I could have enjoyed owning one. The sense of occasion would have been the cold sweat of knowing every drive might be my last! Liam

Swine Enthusiast said: How does the GTS 4.0 sound? They sound great from inside the Cayman cabin, especially with the exhaust switched to sport mode. The 981 GT4 is a fair bit louder and rortier at full chat, and also has a load of transmission whine, so it's easier to pretend to yourself you're driving a racing car on the road. (Carefully, and at moderate pace, honestly officer...) At mid revs I actually prefer the GTS 4.0 quality of sound, which goes nicely with the smoother and fuller torque output from the later engine. Liam

Swine Enthusiast said: How does the GTS 4.0 sound? It’s really, really good from inside and much deeper from the outside (that’s why it doesn’t get captured well by videos etc). If you really, really want to it sound crazy good, just get JCR Titanium Race Pipe (it’s just a silencer). It will then sound better than a 981 gen car (IMHO). You can also just use a set of collars to lock the valves open all the time. I found it was a bit too loud (people turning their heads when downshifting into 1st at slow town speeds). Re: the JCR, see https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...

listen to this 4.0 GTS Cayman, after 1.06 min, I think it sounds good with that akra exhaust, loud enough but not earplugs loud.

One thing to note about the exhaust sound - the 718 doesn’t have pops and bangs. Some consider the pops & bangs in some 981 gen cars over the top (as they’re always exactly the same on each lift off), while the 718 is a bit more “honest” (similar to GT3s). Which ones you prefer is a matter of personal choice, I know I got tired of the pops on my other cars but they’re fun once in a while. YMMV.

I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now. I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea. I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help! 1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so? 2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!) 3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option? 4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed? 5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently? 6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...?? Thanks in advance for any and all views!

Fatherdougal said: 1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so? Back in Dec 2023, my local OPC all build slots have been allocated, no new allocations available. Fatherdougal said: 2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!) I've got PDLS and it's Bi-xenon, PDLS+ is LED. Honestly, the lights are pretty good, I wouldn't get hung up on this for a sports car. Fatherdougal said: 4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed? Honestly, the GTS 4.0 exhaust noise is very disappointing and it's making me think about selling the car. There are two main problems with it: firstly, the valves close between 1.8k and 3.8k and it makes the car literally silent. This means that when you're pottering around, you get zero exhaust sound and between 2-3k rpm, inside, it's almost like nothing is happening. This really detracts from the experience because the sound makes an emotional difference. There are valve controllers you can buy (or you can just permanently open the valves, google for "collar mod", takes 15mins to do and don't need to jack the car up). It improves the volume but does not improve the tone. The problem with opening the valves is the drone and boominess. The Porsche engineers programmed the valves this way because they knew it would be too boomy for the vast majority of customers. Your other option is buying the best exhaust out there: the JCR (which I'm seriously considering). If I can't fix the sound, I'll probably end up selling the car - the lack of sound seriously detracts from the experience. My BMW (B58 engine + MPPSK) sounds miles better than my GTS 4.0 and it's 1/4 of the price. I've spent countless hours researching and figuring out what to do and I'm at a loss. I'll share some links with you, so you can do your own research. One thing to note that, even with the JCR, your exhaust will still be quieter than a 981 GT4 and 991.1/.2 with PSE. From this thread OEM 718 GT4 EXHAUST (EU) - 91.1dB JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE - 94.5dB JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE - 95.1dB JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE - 97.5dB JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE - 98.1dB JCR TITANIUM SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE / JCR INCONEL RACE MANIFOLDS - 107.4dB JCR TITANIUM NON SILENCED VALVED RACE PIPE / JCR TITANIUM OPF DELETE / JCR INCONEL RACE MANIFOLDS - 108.1dB From Jonny (of JCR): "The silenced version is around 3/4dB quieter than the non silenced version with valves closed - For me the volume is less important that the drone and as drone is subjective to some degree it's difficult to measure. Both systems have the resonators come into effect with the valves closed, this device attenuates drone very well in the target RPM's 2000-2750rpm" Now, those are WOT measurements and seems like the JCR exhaust is around 3-4dB quieter than a 981 GT4 (see this thread ). But I don't drive at WOT for long periods of time, so what I care about would be the volume with valves closed 2-3k rpm. At 5k+ rpm, the noise is good but I spend very little time in that rpm range. Also, check pages 174-178 from the Pistonheads thread . RSVP911 said: daro911 said: Is it as loud as the 981 Spyder's I'd say not quite - but not far off. It actually sounds very different - the 981 is a very loud slightly unsubtle thing, with lots of fake pops and bangs. The 718 with JCR is slightly quieter but with what I'd describe as a very real , bassey, deep sound - both sound epic, but they are different. I would say the later car sounds more grown up if that makes sense ? One thing it has done is completely changed my perception of the engine - before it sounded weak and whiney - now it sounds incredible and feels like a really strong engine (I realise the engine hasn't changed - but driving the car sounds so different it makes you feel like its got a completely different engine) I realise I'm not making any friends here - but I do feel quite evangelical about it as it has completely transformed the car - I can't stop driving it (under current restrictions) & whenever I do, I'm grinning from ear to ear - it reminds me of how I felt about my 981 Spyder, which as you know, I loved and thought was a brilliant car (& still is) I think the effect will be better in the Spyder than the GT4 for obvious reasons. Either way - I'm boring myself - so no more exhaust chat from me The ultimate exhaust thread has a lot of information, including this chart: Fatherdougal said: 5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently? The UK has opted out of the EU regulations which come into force in July 2024 after which no current 718 will be sold in the EU but 718s will continue to be sold outside the EU. Fatherdougal said: 6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...?? Honestly, no - saying that as a GTS 4.0 owner. I'm looking at spending £6k+ just to fix the sound and it would still not be as good as the 981 generation. It also means invalidating warranty etc, so I'm not convinced it's worth all the hassle.

Fatherdougal said: I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now. I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea. I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help! 1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so? 2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!) 3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option? 4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed? 5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently? 6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...?? Thanks in advance for any and all views! I upgraded from a 981 GTS to a 4.0 GTS. In all honesty, the sound of the 981 is better - it used to send tingles down my spine! - but the 4.0 sounds good too. The torque, chassis and steering are better and it’s nice to have CarPlay. Logically, it’s not £35k better (my price to change) but I don’t regret it. Just wish I could have both!

Before shelling out all that cash, just be sure the sound i.e. “internet myth” to those with actual experience is really worth paying for. A huge amount of utter horses t is available for everyone’s consumption on forums…

The GTS4.0 sounds bloody great with the windows down; you get the full intake wail that way. Windows up, it's a good sound, but not the be all and end all, but better than most new cars I'd imagine. My previous 981s sounded better in all respects. It is a remarkable car though.

so for in the car and not to much outside, change the intake manifold? I bet there are some nice aftermarket examples were you get more involvement inside the car, to much outside is also not good for many people (neighbor's) lol

c3m said: Your other option is buying the best exhaust out there: the JCR (which I'm seriously considering). I've decided that I'm going to change the exhaust and will report back how the experience goes.

c3m said: I've got PDLS and it's Bi-xenon, PDLS+ is LED. Honestly, the lights are pretty good, I wouldn't get hung up on this for a sports car. For a while you could only get bi-xenon, but PDLS LED has been available for over a year now, minus the +.

@AndrewGP As others have stated, for the budget, there really isn't much as a direct competitor. (Amazed no one has mentioned the A110). I'm 18 months in with my GTS 4.0 and am struggling with what would top it. Unfortunately any move within the Porsche stable effectively doubles the budget (A 992 GTS with a sprinkling of options is 145k). And once your at that sort of budget you can get some very tasty metal as "pre loved". Nope, I really can't think of anything I'd change. I would recommend a PEC morning though, it really cemented my decision. Best of luck! T1b

Fatherdougal said: I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now. I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea. I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help! 1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so? 2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!) 3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option? 4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed? 5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently? 6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...?? Thanks in advance for any and all views! To answer some of your points 1. OPCs are still taking orders however they are managing expectations. There is a strong rumour that this will be the last MY however my OPC has said that they expect it to run into 2025. 2. PDLS+ is no longer available. Bi-Xenon and LED PDLS are available however, as mentioned , the + bit has gone so no adaptive headlights I'm afraid. 3. Alcantara headlining is standard on the GTS 4. Sadly the addition of the GPF has muted the noise somewhat however, the sound of the 4.0 is epic over 5k rpm. If you can, grab a test drive in the GTS or see if anyone local to you has one and will take you for a ride. 5. New cars after July must have some form of speed limiting or notification. My personal thought is that Porsche will either put cruise or speed limit display as standard (at a cost of course), but who knows? 6. If you plan on keeping the car and want to spec it for you then do it but get on the list fast. It would be worth ringing a couple of OPCs to see if they have any allocations but you're probably better positioned speaking to your local one first as they like to keep buyers close. They make more money on servicing and warranty that way. I'd suggest building your ideal spec on the configurator and send the code to your sales advisor. Arrange to go in and see them afterwards to iron out some nitty gritty and even see some of the options in the flesh. Finally, as a back-up, have a look on the approved used site. You may find your ideal spec on there but, it may be close to, if not above, retail price. Good luck.

scrounger73 said: Fatherdougal said: I'm in a similar position to the OP... I had a GTS 4.0 on order early days of launch, when the OPC got their first demonstrator. I feel I got messed around by the OPC, lack of information etc so cancelled in the end. I did get a 981 GTS after a while, which I've enjoyed for 2 years now. I have never specced and bought a new Porsche, and am thinking about going back to the GTS 4,0 for a final ICE car, specced to exactly how I would like it, to really last. I've previously baulked at the £40k uplift for what felt like an incremental upgrade (better cabin etc) but if it's my own spec, new and due to last me 5 years or more, I'm definitely warming to the idea. I've started my research, and had a couple of questions if anyone can help! 1. Are they still taking orders for GTS 4.0? Any idea on current time from order to delivery if so? 2. I'd really like PDLS+ as I have it on my Cayenne, and I love it. I might be being daft, but I couldn't see that as an option on the configurator, just PDLS, Is that always the case, or temporarily unavailable? Is the only difference between the + and non + the automatic dipped beam (which would be a shame, as I really want this!) 3. I also couldn't see Alcantara roof headlining, which I have on my 981 GTS and love. Again, am I missing something or is it some obscurely named option? 4. Am really worried about the noise difference. I love the screaming nature of the 981 at high revs. All personal, and I know covered already in this thread, but has anyone made the move from 981 GTS to GTS 4.0 and been disappointed? 5. What's the story on current cars with the EU regulations - eg all the nonsense about speed limit warnings, lane departure warnings etc. Which of these affect the 718 GTS 4.0 currently? 6. Ultimately, views on whether or not it's worth the £50k uplift to get my perfect spec car...?? Thanks in advance for any and all views! To answer some of your points 1. OPCs are still taking orders however they are managing expectations. There is a strong rumour that this will be the last MY however my OPC has said that they expect it to run into 2025. 2. PDLS+ is no longer available. Bi-Xenon and LED PDLS are available however, as mentioned , the + bit has gone so no adaptive headlights I'm afraid. 3. Alcantara headlining is standard on the GTS 4. Sadly the addition of the GPF has muted the noise somewhat however, the sound of the 4.0 is epic over 5k rpm. If you can, grab a test drive in the GTS or see if anyone local to you has one and will take you for a ride. 5. New cars after July must have some form of speed limiting or notification. My personal thought is that Porsche will either put cruise or speed limit display as standard (at a cost of course), but who knows? 6. If you plan on keeping the car and want to spec it for you then do it but get on the list fast. It would be worth ringing a couple of OPCs to see if they have any allocations but you're probably better positioned speaking to your local one first as they like to keep buyers close. They make more money on servicing and warranty that way. I'd suggest building your ideal spec on the configurator and send the code to your sales advisor. Arrange to go in and see them afterwards to iron out some nitty gritty and even see some of the options in the flesh. Finally, as a back-up, have a look on the approved used site. You may find your ideal spec on there but, it may be close to, if not above, retail price. Good luck. Great advice above. I find PDLS+ slow and prone to dazzling other drivers - so no problem that the plus isn't available in my view

manual, buckets, carbons, the works! https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/718...

Stunning in Gentian blue!