Evolution

Reading a number of posts, one cannot help but notice the number of people who have sold or traded in their 911 for a Cayman or Boxster, and they seem generally very pleased to have made the change. The superb handling of these mid-engine cars helps to offset the lower power output, compared to the 911. Given this, the fact that Porsche went to a mid-engine configuration for the 918 Spyder , and the rumours of a 400 bhp flat four turbo in the Cayman GT4, it would appear that Porsche is really looking at viable alternatives to the classic rear-engine 911 design. It may be that the 911 will be phased out in the not too distant future. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I think the notion that the mid-engine platform will be a strong player in Porsche's future is fair. However, the 911, at least as far as Porsche sports cars is concerned, is still king of sales. Porsche Reports Record Sales in 2013; 21 percent increase over 2012

Those two little seats for midgets in the back + 911 letters on the back is a winning formula for Porsche, so I don't see it it fading out any time soon

As much as 911 members are buying a 981 as a second car or moving to it altogether (Me) and realize how great it is, there are probably double of that population that will never considered it b/c it's not a 911. Doesn't matter if the engine is on top of the hood, 911 is still an icon and it still what Porsche is known for. When you tell people you own a Porsche, everyone will assume it's a 911. It'll be a long time before a 911 lose that status.

A word of caution - Please do not let this question get out of hand as it can become inflammatory. Thank you The GT and RSR 911 racing days are numbered. The upcoming 960 FeFi appears to be it's replacement or at least its looking that way from reports, with the requisite price uptick.

Yes, that makes sense. I guess there are really two kinds of Porsche owners; those who are looking for the ultimate sports car experience, and those who enjoy the car simply for its prestige. This is not a criticism of the latter group, merely an observation.

The 928 was developed to be the 911 replacement. It was a remarkable car but in the end did not survive. There will always be a rear engine 2+2 called 911. IMO of course. Oh and the mid engine Carrera GT came well before the 918.

Yes, the sales figures speak for themselves, and leave little doubt in my mind that continued production of the 911 is a certainty.

I could speculate, equally, and along the lines of some others in the thread that the 911 is here for the long haul. If you look at what Porsche is doing is keeping it a very relevant car through refinement and evolutionary engineering. The 991 has its engine 2.5" further forward if memory serves which takes the leverage of that lump a bit more towards the mid.......not a massive change but an adjustment for handling et al. The RSRs with this, increased wheelbase and the like responded well in their successes.

When I had my 911 - way back in the 70s - my wife and I used the back seat for our son and an Irish setter. I personally don't see the 911 going away any time soon. The 911 has been the symbol of Porsche for way too long now.

Here is a poll from m3forum.net, 70% picked the 911, just read the comments, Cayman has a long way to go. 2015 New Cayman GTS or 2014 New Carrera S - BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)

If the 981 engine were not detuned (i.e. dumbed down to protect the 911), do you think the results would change? For the price of say...$0.00, Porsche could do that. Also, the poll was non scientific and a small sample size. lol. just saying. :hilarious:

At the moment, the 911 brand has too much value to Porsche for it to go away. The 911 might evolve to become more mid-engined like (the engine may slowly creep forward) or it may be come the grand touring model, but I doubt the 911 itself would be phased out. Not until people stop wanting 911s and that won't happen for a long time.

Did someone say "leather vent slats"? You woke me up! There's going to be fines for leather vent slats?!

Yeah....BJR has more than a few fines to pay. :hilarious:

Just my two cents, but I think Porsche will continue with their recent refinement of the 911. We will likely see slight increases in wheelbase with continued movement of the engine forward a few inches on each new iteration. Eventually the motor will be over the rear axel and not behind it. Then we will have something in between rear and mid engine. Should make for an even greater car. The seats may have to give way to a parcel shelf at some point in time, but I think the iconic shape as we all know it should be around for a long long time.

Good thread and some great thinking being shared. The thing that sticks in the back of my mind is, remember when the 928 was going to replace the 911...........I have learned with Porsche, ya never know.

Well I wouldn't want a mrid engined 911 with a parcel shelf. It's actually a lot of fun working out how to fit people of different sizes into the car. Turn out unless they are very small the little one goes in the front with the big one behind kind of wrapped round the seat. 30 mins max before the discomfort becomes too great. You can travel quite a long way in 30 minutes if you put your mind to it

To help understand sales, NA market sales for October have been released. To give this perspective, the Cayenne is between model cycles and the Macan is still ramping up production. From Jalopnik http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-911-was-porsches-best-selling-car-in-october-wip-1656755701: "It seems that for one month all was right in the world ... Porsche's super popular Cayenne SUV and even more affordable Macan crossover could not outsell the iconic 911 Carrera sports car. ... the 911 remains the default sports car for those that can afford one." And from The 911, Not An SUV, Was Porsche's Best-Selling Model In October 2014 - The Truth About Cars "But Porsche fans and crossover haters ... can still point to October 2014 as a month in which American consumers registered more new 911s than any other Porsche. ... October marked the end of a four-month growth period in which 911 volume shot up 22%." From the sales stats , in October: Cayman sales down 15 units from a year ago and total 2014 sales might not reach 2013 sales despite 2013 only having 8 months of sales Boxster sales are up quite a bit from a year ago but unlikely to reach 2013 sales numbers 911 sales are up quite a bit from a year ago and are likely to meet or exceed 2014 sales. In terms of gross receipts for the US market, a rough estimate based might be that for the US market, 911 receipts are worth 2.5 to 3 times 981 receipts. China is on the verge of, if not already, Porsche's largest market. Understanding this market is important in relationship to the overall business model. From The Pimped Porsches of China. Why They Do It. - @FlatSixes - the blog about Porsche "The most popular Porsche models in China tend to be the most expensive: the Cayenne Turbo, Panamera Turbo and 911 Turbo. In general, the Boxster is seen as too cheap ... When a wealthy Chinese car buyer buys a Porsche he wants to show he bought an expensive Porsche. Friends, and especially family, need to be convinced that the buyer is successful." Within the pending #1 PAG market being China, one might conclude the ratio of 911 to 981 receipts to be far higher.

I would play close attention to PAG's role in a modular body for VAG. Quoting Pedro, "... It is rumored that Porsche will move its entire line of vehicles to the new architecture by 2019. [which might mean no next generations not in the new platform?] The new architecture is also said to be flexible enough to cater to both mid- and rear-engined layouts, coupe, cabriolet and Targa body styles and rear- and all-wheel drive configurations. The recent engine failures that stopped production and delivery of the 3.8 liter 2014 GT3 are seen by some as proof that the flat-6 has seen the end of it’s natural development in terms of increasing its displacement and power output. [this has been repeated all over the internet and from dealers] ... It is now widely believed that Porsche will expand its engine architecture in the sport cars as follows • Turbocharged flat-4 engines for its entry-level ... Boxster and Cayman lines. Expect a 1.6L or 1.8L, a 2.0L and a 2.5L all with four-cylinder turbo boxers • Normally aspirated and turbocharged flat-6s for its 911 flagship, the Carrera. • Multi-turbocharged Flat-8 (4.0L) in the 988. MSRP: $250,000 - $300,000." Going back to the original OP question "This is why the 911 hasn’t been cancelled up to now. Neither the 928 nor the 924 has been able to overtake the 911. We are still building two-and-a-half times as many 911s as 928s." Ferry Porsche The more things change, the more they stay the same ... Remember, the 928 cost MORE than a 911 ... for the US market, 911 receipts are worth 2.5 to 3 times 981 receipts . In the end, its all about the profit. ​

Oh please. Excuse me while I watch the last 911 Lemans win on my Betamax movie that I rented from Blockbuster on my RCA TV that I bought from Sears. I'll send you a pic after I get the film developed from my Kodak or polaroid camera. Ok....that was just rude and I'm sorry. I do like 911s but I want Porsche to stop limiting the 981 to second place.

Hey, film cameras are making a comeback. So many people have no clue how to take a picture because they just take selfies with their smart phone that no one knows how to actually compose a picture anymore. I keep telling you they WILL. It will be the FEFI. Mid-engined, monster HP. Save your pennies. History DOES repeat itself. Just as the 928 cost more than the 911, so won't the FEFI. Start saving now. Read between the lines. Go upscale. Charge more. Make more money ...

Don't hold your breath on the FEFI. http://www.worldcarfans.com/114111584346/porsche-mid-engine-supercar-reportedly-on-hold Looks like we are going to get a lot of SUVs from Porsche.

In addition to film cameras, how about turntables making a return..........and there are still some audiophiles who say tube amps give the best, most refined, sweetest sound. Then, there are electric cars which went out of style in the 1912-15s with the improvements in starting methods for the internal combustion engine. Never say never.............

Regardless of how fast the Huracan would be in 2020 it will remain in the 458 (or its successor) range in terms of price and performance. This means cannibalism within the VW Group. Yet, I just remembered the 991 turbo S already outperforms the Huracan and Speciale. Interesting... if the 960 will look anything like the 918 it will outsell every Lambo and Ferrari model in production IMO.

I will defer to Eduardo who seems to know his stuff : "Porsche needs it to stay competitive in motorsports. The older gt3 platform will not take them much further. Indeed, that 918 chassis ..., modified & amended for rear, mid & front engine configurations, might ultimately be the basis for all future sport car Audis, Lamborghinis & Porsches by 2020/2021! But PAG will have the first crack at the apple (I expect to the the 960/988 by calendar year 2017!) and stay ahead of the pack by the nature of its massive investment in the 918 chassis development program, ..." It makes perfect sense for the FEFI to use the 918 chassis, and makes economic sense for Lambo and Audi to use it as well modified to their needs. It does not make sense for each division to "do their own thing" As to engines ... who knows.