997.2 C4S v C2S

G'day Folks, moving to the UK at the end of the year so selling my trusty air cooled steed and looking to get into a late model car in the UK. Looking at a 997.2 however interested in opinions on C2S v C4S. Has anyone driven both? Happy to hear any opinions either way. cheers Antony

Hi Anthony, I live in the UK and bought a 997.2 4S last year. I'm shipping mine back to Australia with me later this year. All in, will get it on the road and registered in NSW for about 60% of the market value of one in Australia so it's most certainly worthwhile. A few comments:  997.2 cars (especially 4S's - which are very popular here) are going slowly up in value at the moment in the UK and the average price for a nice clean, low mile 4S is now around GBP48k. A year ago they were mid 40's. So expect prices around the high 40's to low 50's for good cars at the end of the year. In the UK both 3.6 and 3.8's seem to sell for about the same value. People here don't really differentiate between them much which I find strange, as in Australia the S version is always more expensive. There are a few well known reputable dealers here, and a few to steer clear of, so happy to discuss that further in a PM if you want. Winter is the time to buy a Porsche. Prices noticeibly jump when spring rolls around. Especially if you want a Cabriolet.  Most cars get advertised on www.autotrader.co.uk or www.pistonheads.com but you should keep one eye on Chappell Sports Cars, Harbour Cars, Dove House, JZM, RSJ, pct cars, and 911Virgin. Also, you may want to try and source a car from the South rather than 'Up North' as the weather conditions are less harsh and the car will likely have been exposed to less road salt, grit and snow etc. Mine is from outside London and is mint underneath, mainly due to low miles and was garaged by the first owner. PDK is the norm here for most drivers so if you want a manual (as I did) you will need to be patient, and jump when you see a good one. They sell fast. I settled on a PDK car that had all of my other option requirements and it's awesome so I'm happy. So is the wife, and you know what they say... Regarding 4S vs 2S. I drove a few of both and really there isn't much in it. Some say that the 2S's steering is more pure and sharper (and it may be) but the margins are small. In normal dry conditions they really drive very similarly. The one thing I did notice, is that the 4S seems to 'bob' up and down at the front less over bumpy roads than the 2S. This may be down to the small amount of extra weight over the front wheels (being the front diff) but hard to say, and again not much in it. It's a different story when the roads are wet and greasy (which they are often in the UK). The 4S feels very planted and you can push on feeling very secure with the AWD doing it's thing. Off the mark it's simply devastating in the wet or dry. At the end of the day, I just wanted the 4S for the wider body and it looks 'fat' on the road. I love it. The options I think you should consider are PSE (Sports Exhaust) as the new DFI engine in the 997.2 is very refined and a bit too quiet without it. Sport Seats with the hard back as they are simply superb and if you get a PDK car, Sport Chrono Plus is a must. The gear changes and throttle response are just too soft with out it. Good luck and enjoy. The selection of cars over here is amazing (and a bit overwhelming).

Hey Whytar, thats great info, just what I am after. I am also planning on buying with a view to bringing it back to Aus. I will send you a PM as I would be keen to hear how the import part is playing out. cheers Antony

Smiled when I saw you have an SC. I had a red SC about 4 years ago also. Great car. Think about it a lot. Mine had just 43,000kms when I sold it. Here is a better one of the 4S

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Did autohaus sell this car about two years ago? Love that interior.

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Not sure actually. I lost track after I sold it back to the original owner.

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Ah.  I missed out by two hours buying a car very similar to this from AH.  Someone from SA bought it. Looks like it was a different one, without a wing and slightly different interior: http://autohaushamilton.com.au/news/sale-1978-porsche-911-sc-coupe

Yep, different car. I believe my old one lives in the ACT.

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Absolutely. Love how even the 991 991R plays homage to that retro classic look.

anybody comments on 997.2 clutch longevity?

I've got a 2011 997.2 C2 in London. I haven't driven the C4, so I can't compare from experience. Mine doesn't get driven in winter, but I imagine you'd have some advantage there in the slippery months with the C4. I know there is less space in the C4 frunk, which you'll miss for those european adventures... If you're planning on living in London, PDK! Like Whytar says, double check the car has Sport Chrono. Surprisingly a few there without it. PSE is brilliant but don't be afraid to buy without it as not as expensive to retro-fit as in Australia. (You should be able to negotiate it in the purchase for a very good price.) Buy with 2 years Porsche Warranty from an Official Porsche Centre. It includes European breakdown. I've just been granted approval to import back to Australia. I've already been sharing experiences with Whytar. If I go ahead with bringing it back, I'll let you know about the costs and the company I go with. I think I'm looking at something just north of $25k once its on the road. You might be lucky and have cheaper import costs in the future if any of the rules are changed....but don't hold your breath! If I decide to sell it, I'll be in touch!!

G'day Midnight, thanks very much. I will be interested to hear how the import works out. Copy the PDK - do you have the paddles or the button shifters? cheers Antony

I've got the button shifters. I was originally thinking of changing to the wheel with paddles, but got used to it the buttons very quickly. Because its such a late 997 it came with an all black 991 style wheel with silver buttons. Looks very tidy so decided not to change. If you wanted to do track days, the paddles would be great.

Funny thread I too have a 997.2 and SC like a couple of you guys have/had. I have the triangle centre multifunctional wheel. Is there a version with the more modern looking 'round' centered wheel that also has the multifunctional buttons etc? Also a side question some earlier comments on this thread:are 997.2's really going up again? I thought I had noted the price of the manual jump here in Aust or am I going crazy?

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This is the multi-function wheel (mine came with this)... This is the optional Sports Steering Wheel (I retro-fitted)

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For your information - I brought my 997 C2S back to OZ with me last year and it's fairly straightforward as long as you precisely stick to the rules. Don't try to fudge dates or details as believe me, Customs will check. As you need to own car for 12 months prior to import and you'll need to be a returning resident, make sure you have copy of your UK Insurance, copies of MOT's/V5, service records, receipts for spares purchased etc.....they can easily check & will ask for all these details. Apply to Canberra and it's authorised in a few weeks BUT will only be mailed to a UK address - keep all the copies, they're essential at each stage. Shipping is easy (I've used EDI Freight Forwarding a couple of times) and you'll probably send in a container but check with them as often they'll wait for other cars to fill the container & it'll only cost about UKP1,000. I've sent cars roll on roll off and they've arrived quite okay but a container is obviously best. Duty is 5% + GST 10%. I've steam cleaned cars myself 2 or 3 times but still find AQS charge to clean again, so last time i didn't clean at all & they charged $200 to clean & another $100 to re inspect. There are miscellaneous handling fees, charges etc along the way. Don't try to use ridiculously cheap receipts as proof of purchase to minimise duty, as Customs have access to all Red Book valuations & will just use an average "Carsales" price in Australia to value your car at $130k, when you only paid $80k in UK. Watch exchange rates as I bought mine @ 1.4 whereas now it's about 1.9 but Brexit may change this further? Upon arrival, pay fees, have it transported home, get a local Compliance company to inspect and  get 3rd party then register in your State. These days, they no longer attach a blue plate to the car, only a yellow sticker for compliance to OZ ADR's - no issues at all. As previously mentioned in above thread, RUST is the biggest killer for these cars and my car came from London where they hardly use grit - it's not the body you worry about.....it's the exhaust and all metal components/bolts/shackles etc. A good tip is to buy a car with Porsche factory warranty, which for a 997.2 is good until 2019 and get a 2 year renewal in UK, it's much cheaper than here. I had mine inspected at Porsche Brisbane for another year's warranty and they very nearly wouldn't do it, without excluding all exhaust components due to corrosion. But remember it's a Worldwide factory warranty & worth every cent as you'll always get criticism from buyers here when it's a UK import, it's maybe worth $10-$20k less than a local delivery for obvious reasons. I can't give you any better advice than to only buy an original, verified, low mileage, fully documented, preferably Porsche dealer stamped car from a used car franchise or from someone you check out thoroughly..... as UK is the heart of SCAMSVILLE, believe me, there are so many frauds, thefts, makeovers etc. Be vigilant and trust no one! For the same sort of money you can get a 2007/8 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, an Audi R8 or a Bentley Continental.....prices do go up in Spring as summer approaches and Autotrader or Pistonheads are good places to look. Buy a Total 911 or Classic Cars magazine locally in UK and you'll quickly see the excellent Porsche dealers like JZM, Dove, Redline, Cridfords, Tom Hartley, RSJ or Hexagon - amazing stock which may push you towards a 993 or 996GT3??  Ha ha...enjoy the ride but be super cautious. PS many UK cars won't have sunroof or cruise fitted, which is standard in ALL Australian delivered vehicles.