I think I have decided to buy a 996 Turbo manual... - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hello all.. I'm not frequent around here, but keep meaning to get more involved (PH in general that is.).. Anyway.. Over the past two years I have been thinking about my next keeper purchase. It was between either a C/E/CL 63 Merc (M156 6.2 litre) or some manner of a Porsche.. I've flip flopped a lot, but I think i'm finally set on a manual 996 Turbo.. call me crazy but I like the 996 styling. I haven't been sure about either a Tip or Manual.. But all my whips have recently been out of action and i've been driving my mothers manual diesel MK 7 Golf..it has reminded how much fun and engaging a manual box can be....but also what a nuisance it is as a daily, in traffic. So anyway.. here I am and that's my current plan. I'm not too pushed on X50 or not.. and i'm also not sure I am bothered about pre/post facelift. One thing I do like about the 996 is how manual it is supposed to be etc.. and that the pre-facelift has drive by cable.. ...Also.. while I don't want this to turn into another "market/prices thread.." I am thinking to get my ducks in a row and start test driving in the new year when I think prices will have had a time to correct a bit. It feels like right now there is talk of a correction...hopefully in the new year prices might see a bit of sense, but who knows. I will be looking at max £40k I think. I won't be seeking massively low miles, but I think 90 will be my max. I plan on maintaining this myself, as I do with all my cars. But I think for this car, my most valuable to date, I would still maintain a specialist service history for oil changes. Now I have a few questions: - If you were in the market for one of these what would be your make or break items? - Are there any decent drink holder mods for the gen 1? - What do I need to buy in order to be able to plug in and check over rev counters? Does the 996 show over revs in stages.. or just a single counter? Does that diag work as a good workshop system? Thanks a lot guys.

This is a lovely one that caught Harry's eye https://youtu.be/ljZadXKe78k?t=2400

Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for. Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions.

The metzger engine is still considered pretty bullet proof and I would not expect a turbo engine to have been over revved like a GT3 n/a as it should have run out of puff way before massive revs….you’d hope it hadn’t been wrong slotted or just over revved on the way down…I doubt that many 996 t have spent a lot of time on track.

Brilliant cars would love one myself. They seem able to swallow large amounts of money to keep them tip top! There’s one in the classifieds currently that’s just had £22k spent on a general mechanical refresh. That’s the kind of thing I’d be looking for. Still a fast car today and feels it. Agree on the styling too I like it and would put it ahead of the 997tt especially around the rear.

I can help narrow down your search a bit. They didn’t do a pre facelift 996.1 turbo

GT6 Jonsey said: I can help narrow down your search a bit. They didn’t do a pre facelift 996.1 turbo Did the early ones not lack a glove box making them “pre facelift”?

Yep the early 996.2 turbos didn’t have a glovebox, I guess they might have had other small updates over the following 5 years.

irish boy said: Brilliant cars would love one myself. They seem able to swallow large amounts of money to keep them tip top! There’s one in the classifieds currently that’s just had £22k spent on a general mechanical refresh. That’s the kind of thing I’d be looking for. Still a fast car today and feels it. Agree on the styling too I like it and would put it ahead of the 997tt especially around the rear. Hi mate What one is that? Got a link please?

fourwheeler said: Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for. Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions. There is a rare RHD S for sale (1 of 60) which might be of interest to you. Reputable dealer too as I am sure you know. Lovely colour - the interior might be marmite but makes a change from the pebble grey that so many of that era were specced with. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14153457

I was in the same position in 2012 and bought a manual 996 turbo X50. Ten years on and I'm still enjoying the kick. Living with a 996 turbo It's been a great car and I still love driven her but she is more pampered weekend car now. I've had the usual clutch, tyres, brakes. The exhaust hardware and shields rust and I had the spoiler rams fail which is a costly fix, even via an indie. I also added mesh on the front grilles to keep out debris. But on condition, check the turbos and boost and look for a good history of maintenance. They're a fantastic car and amazing value. Ignore those who say they lack feel (usually compared to a GT3), they're scalpel sharp compared with 99% of other cars. Good luck with the search. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

julian987R said: fourwheeler said: Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for. Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions. There is a rare RHD S for sale (1 of 60) which might be of interest to you. Reputable dealer too as I am sure you know. Lovely colour - the interior might be marmite but makes a change from the pebble grey that so many of that era were specced with. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14153457 And not too short of double the OP budget. Great colour.

Great cars, choose carefully and you won’t regret it. Over revs are in two stages only and you need durametric to read them. Gen 2 with glove box and cup holders also have some other minor improvements which you may or may not desire. Don’t worry about x50 or not, generally folk say it’s not worth the premium

irish boy said: They seem able to swallow large amounts of money to keep them tip top! There’s one in the classifieds currently that’s just had £22k spent on a general mechanical refresh . That’s the kind of thing I’d be looking for. Still a fast car today and feels it. Thats the kind of thing which scares me. Although I did see a 997 GT3 ad last week which mentioned 10k for new discs and pads - standard steel also.

ATM said: Thats the kind of thing which scares me. Although I did see a 997 GT3 ad last week which mentioned 10k for new discs and pads - standard steel also. Here it is https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2009-porsche-9... Advert blurb said: In August 2022, £10,682 was spent at Porsche Centre Cambridge to replace both the front and rear brake discs and pads, fitting a new alternator plus pulleys and belts, and replacing the radiator.

996 turbo is the best VFM 911 hands down. They need to be used to stay in tip top condition though so do not be afraid of mileage as long a the car has been loved and had lots of work done to stay on top of things. I'd almost prefer a well used and well looked after one to garage queen.

Hi everybody Thank you for the phenomenal response! I can't seem to easily quote the various replies, so i'll just response in essay form My plan is to keep this car for quite some time.. so the Mezger engine is "the one" for me.. Adverts showing lot's of money spent are very odd to me.. why would somebody spend a shed load of money and then offload the car..but on the other hand, when the say "xyz big number recently spent" it could have been in the last 2 years.. which I have personally seen happen.. which in actuality is just really maintenance or a neglected car getting caught up to pass an MOT.. In fairness to the one with 22k spent.. that is for sale from specialist, Weissach UK, which probably did the work to get it saleworthy and at cost by employed mechanics. That said, it seems to have a heap of new parts fitted which can only be a good thing. 12 month 3rd party warranty too.. Oh, and bit shout out to @97jhp - many thanks for your response and I am sure I might hit your DMs with specific questions, when I have them.. I've also been looking at the mileage.. it seems like my budget will allow me something as low as 70k+ miles.. Part of me wants a 70k max car.. but then another part of me says anything 85+ is fine also.. it depends on maintenance I guess.. Since posting last, I have narrowed down what I am looking for.. which currently stands at: Budget £40-45k - Could probably stretch a bit more for a really good example which has had something like new top range rubber, clutch, discs etc. Black / Silver / Grey Manual Aero kit ideally, so that I don't have to worry about the hydraulic wing issues in the future. I also love the aero wing. Black leather (possibly blue on silver car) When I am serious about buying I am going to get a Durametric setup as I will absolutely be checking over-revs. Follow up questions .. What's the story with turbos? I see some (more than i'd like) adverts talking about rebuilt turbos.. sounds expensive. What does it cost to have them rebuilt (excluding labour to remove as I would DIY that.) My friends says that from the research he has done, the most desirable 996 is a C4S. I just simply doubt that and would assume normal pecking order of models.. not to mention the issue with IMS / Borescore not on the Mezger lumps.. Price would also dictate that he is wrong.. although I didn't want to get into it with him, because I would just sound bitter / biased. Don't get me wrong though.. the C4S is a lovely motor and borescore wasn't an issue i'd be having one due to it's turbo looks and naturally aspirated engine.

Also guys.. what's the story with maintenance? I am a keen enthusiast not afraid of any job probably with the exception of programming an ECU or major engine work.. I will do everything else myself. I service all my own cars, but this 911 I will be getting it outsourced to keep the book in order. I know these cars are known to consume large amounts of money, which isn't necessarily a problem, but desirable to avoid. I'd be putting 3k (4k MAX) a year on mine.. and DIY'ing a lot of work.. surely that won't be crazy money. I'm sure parts will be expensive.. how would they compare to Mercedes for example? What are the big ticket items that hurt when needed? Clutch I believe is a big one.. what about those turbos? How reliable is the dry sump system and is there much scheduled maintenance on it? Also.. What's it like to work on in general?

The 996 C4S is a sweet spot, the 3.6 N/A is really nice it has plenty of torque and revs out well. A slightly fruity exhaust means it sounds as good as a V8 M156. 25-30k should get you a low mile and nice C4S: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209049... if you fancy 2WD you can drop out the front diff relatively cheaply and fully reversible should you wish return to standard.

C4S great but a turbo weapons grade by comparison. Wait a few months and these current stupid prices will ease off. By March next year I'd guess used market will be hit with a sense of reality. That car above for £75k or whatever was only £50k a few years ago which is about right IMO for a time warp example. £35k for a well maintained low owners 70k-85k miles 996 turbo wouldn't be paying more than this. You need a £10k contingency but you will not need it if you do your homework and buy well.

roca1976 said: if you fancy 2WD you can drop out the front diff relatively cheaply and fully reversible should you wish return to standard. Not quite that simple as you need new suspension too or it will sit high at the front. You could buy one already done. There was one for sale in the classifieds but it's sold.

fourwheeler said: Also guys.. what's the story with maintenance? I ran a nice 996 Turbo S for 6 years and 30k miles. In my experience the parts weren't that expensive, but the labour was high for what seemed like inocuous jobs. I had all the usual things needing replacing, mostly cheap parts: springs and dampers; suspension arms and links; aircon condensers; various pipes and valves; alternator regulator; water pump; clutch accumulator; brake pads (not cheap for PCCBs admittedly); the list went on. Jobs that needed scary amounts of labour were things like replacing exhaust manifold studs and bolts, and the turbo bolts, which looked like they had been on the Titanic they were so rusty. Similarly a fuel pipe (I think) that ran over the top of the transmission in front of the engine, and needed the engine to be partly dropped. Turbo boost leaks took a bit of tracking down too. All stuff you'd expect when you realise it's a cramped engine bay with a lot of complicated plumbing, and there are two of everything! I put most of the costs for mine in my profile, should all still be there.

Are the manual gearboxes on these made of chocolate like the vanilla 2wd and vanilla 4wd NA cars?

Not chocolate but they do all have a second gear pop out issue which can be up to £10k to fix properly. Slight design fault in the 996 turbo gearbox but most should have had it fixed by now. If I was buying and planning to use as Porsche intended her 12-15k miles a year I'd want to buy a turbo or any used 911 really from a 911 Virgin, JZM, RSJ, 9e with a 12 month warranty

I have owned a 996.2 3.6 manual and now have a 2010 E63. I wouldn't discount the E / CLS 63 they offer great value for money and the cash saved can pay the increase in VED and loss of MPG (mine averages 20mpg so not terrible) The interior of the AMG is in a different league in design and quality compared to my old 996 (it was older / higher miles compared to the E63). I am a fan of the 996TT however couldn't justify the price delta compared to a V8 6.2 AMG especially when the majority of my driving is during rush hour traffic. I thought I would miss the manual more than I have, the MCT box is pretty quick shifting. I believe the 996 tip can be retrofitted with AMG paddles and is bullet proof even with big power 996 (I think it is a Merc / AMG box so designed for stump pulling torque) If you plan on a keeper worth test driving manual, tips, etc. sounds like a manual rebuild could spoil the ownership experience! or you could do what I did, make copious lists, read reviews, watch hours of YouTube and then go and buy the first E63 I saw and ignore all the lists and hours of home work...

I would go into a car like that with a big war chest. Get one where the turbos, intercoolers and associated plumbing has been refreshed. Parts for these are cars are going up alot lately.. Make sure the oil changes have been kept up to date. Mezgers are complicated lumps but solid.

Andyoz said: Make sure the oil changes have been kept up to date. Mezgers are complicated lumps but solid. For anyone that doesn't know the engine is derived from the one used in the GT1 race car. Main difference between this and the vanilla 911 engine from this era is that the Mezger has individual parts for each bore. So imagine 6 little blocks bolted together rather than 2 of 3 each. This makes it much more expensive to manufacture.

ATM said: For anyone that doesn't know the engine is derived from the one used in the GT1 race car. Main difference between this and the vanilla 911 engine from this era is that the Mezger has individual parts for each bore. So imagine 6 little blocks bolted together rather than 2 of 3 each. This makes it much more expensive to manufacture. Yes, definitely a car to pay say an extra £10-15k for the best example you can find as it can go £££ south very quickly otherwise.

Thanks everybody. Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book? Can we do any more than that? Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive. The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever. To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks. Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper.

BTW, FYI.. Here is the one with 22k spent on it. Seems like it had the kitchen sink thrown at it. I wonder how rough it was before? According to total car check. Last V5 issued date is Feb 2020. If you scroll down on the link you will see its been for sale the last 6 months and is currently for sale at 8k less than May asking price. I wonder what these were trading for in Feb 2020. https://totalcarcheck.co.uk/FreeCheck?regno=+VO03j... It ticks all the boxes for me with the exception of aero kit.. If the work that is advertised was actually done and the engine not ragged this seems like a nice enough buy, on paper and makes the price fairly reasonable. But you need to wonder why all that work was needed in the first place.. or is that being a bit too suspicious ? Edited by fourwheeler on Tuesday 15th November 22:58

fourwheeler said: But you need to wonder why all that work was needed in the first place.. or is that being a bit too suspicious ? Edited by fourwheeler on Tuesday 15th November 22:58 They're 20 year old near supercars of their era. They can throw that sort of bill and still have things left to finish.

fourwheeler said: Thanks everybody. Yes it sounds like I need to find a well maintained example. What are the steps in doing that? Porsche specialist PPI and a solid OPC + Specialist service book? Can we do any more than that? Regarding the Merc 63. I feel like I've kind of scratched the merc itch so to speak with my R230 SL 500 which I can use if I want to go on a comfy drive. The 911 in some guise really is the one this time around.. I've wanted to scratch that itch in forever. To whoever said the C4S sounds great......thank you! I've spent the evening listening to it on YouTube and it sounds great in comparison to the turbo.. but I do really like the turbo looks. Since I've spent the last week or so eyeing up the turbo.. a 996 without the rear quarter vents seems plain. Its a real quandary because the C4S is a lot cheaper. Don't get me wrong, the 996 C4S has the best rear of any pork (turbo not far behind) and they do sound fruitier, but they are absolutely not in the same playing field. Take away the many many inherent issues with the cheaper M96 and you still have essentially the same chassis with significantly less power and torque. One is good for posing and pootling to the shops (where oddly enough it sounds its best), the other is a weapon even in stock form. Test drive both, and post back when you have purchased the Turbo . It was a flagship model for a reason. If you want na experience with the nicer soundtrack a far more nimble C2 makes more sense than a C4S Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 15th November 23:21

fourwheeler said: Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for. Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions. Here is one to keep an eye on https://jzmporsche.com/cars/porsche-996-p0432/ " lovingly cared for by its previous owners and has always had money lavished on it whenever it has required mechanical upkeep."

or this one.... wow what a combo, gold, red and walnut. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210110...

I loved mine, used as a daily commuting into London daily, and would have another in a heartbeat Very quick, look great and relatively inexpensive to look after X50 power kit would be good, but without the body kit, imo. The rear wing isn’t as good looking as the standard hydraulic one My other desire would be sports seats, they are far superior to the standard offering Facelift cars got Glovebox, PCM and Bose as standard, cupholders, rain sensor and auto dim rear view mirror. Soft touch plastics and improved ventilation also X50 became an option with the face lifted car too

I have a 2004, Cobalt blue, Aero kit turbo with Sport Techno wheels. I have owned it since 2014 and it may be up for sale shortly as I have a new car coming. Only mod is a Kline exhaust which sounds amazing.

simonsti said: I have a 2004, Cobalt blue, Aero kit turbo with Sport Techno wheels. I have owned it since 2014 and it may be up for sale shortly as I have a new car coming. Only mod is a Kline exhaust which sounds amazing. They look good in Cobalt, and they are less ubiquitous than Black or Seal Grey

I would view the relatively low purchase price (even for a decent one) as being a chance to put £20k+ aside as a war chest. I'm just not sure it would be my 'first' Porsche unless I went in with full knowledge of the potential outlays. But if you get one that previous owners have been through most of the biggie refresh outlays then you could have a keeper! The Facebook owners groups etc. are always a good start and nice cars are often offered up there with some provenance that can be checked out (or you can let them know you're in the market). Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 16th November 10:38

Thank you everybody for the continued input. I take on board that the car is very much in the super car performance bracket, of that period and that comes with complexity and costs. However, I thin that can be mitigated largely by doing a lot of DIY work, in the sense that if there are any issues, i'll just park it up in my garage and go at it when time permits - I won't be stuck for transport. A specialist has just said to be simply.. if a £5k bill would ruin your year, then don't buy one.. if it wouldn't, then consider and have your research done. ... Since my last discussion I have considered 3 alternatives. 1. 996 C4S 2. 996 C2 3. 997 C2S -- 1. There doesn't seem to be a "reasonably priced" one for sale right now that doesn't have a crap MOT history. Then you have borescore to contend with. 2. I can't have this because the bodykit on them seems dated to me. The front bumper hasn't aged well, imho. 3. Yes, I could absolutely go for one of these. More keenly priced than a 996 Turbo, fruit exhaust and nice power. So, in summary I really would settle for a 997 C2S .. but I really don't want to have borescore issues on my mind and the potential of that big bill from Hartech. Let's call it £10. I mean if I drop £20 on a 997 C2S and it needs another £10k later on, i'll be pretty peeved at that and regret not buying the 996 Turbo. I'm sure that borescoring might be overhyped, but one would want to be mentally prepared for the rebuild. I suppose I could look for a rebuilt one.... So... i'm kind of back to the Turbo.. and is that a bad thing? I mean it looks fairly mean, and by most accounts it's fairly potent...I also really do like the style inc. the lights...

@four wheeler, 996 turbos are very good cars indeed, I bought mine exactly 10 years ago this very day. Mine is a 'Tip, which shouldn't be discounted on one of these. Sure, it's a 'slush box', but a damned good one too, with 255 maps in the transmission controller. Double tap the accelerator and hang on - that activates max attack mode from both engine and gearbox instantly. Downsides to a 'tip? They self learn and become lazy very quickly, so you have to wake it up periodically. Alternatively just hit the steering wheel rocker switches and off you go. Dynamically the car feels heavy, but this can be absolutely be transformed for the cost of a pair of RSS engine mounts and a trip to Fearnsport or Center Gravity for a geo set up. They are hugely capable cars, particularly if the stock K16 version receives a good remap - mine runs at 503 hp on Litchfield's rolling road and the car is properly rapid. Apply the same remap to a K24 turbo'd car and you are well north of 500 hp. Just invest wisely in some 997 turbo brake discs, some caliper spacers and decent pads, as the beast will take some stopping. They can drop unexpected bills on you, buy with your eyes wide open and get a very thorough inspection prior to purchase. Mine came from RSJ in Slough and it has been totally reliable, but they don't sell many of them these days. I would recommend having Matt at Fearnsport look at any prospective car as he knows them inside and out. A top bloke. Happy hunting. Mike

fourwheeler said: I really would settle for a 997 C2S .. but I really don't want to have borescore issues on my mind and the potential of that big bill from Hartech. This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626

Having owned a 996.1 C2 manual, I jumped at the chance to drive my mate’s 996.1 turbo. The performance is astonishing but nowhere near as engaging as the C2.

To answer your question from a while back in the thread regarding the turbo's. The turbine housings can corrode and break apart because they sit low behind the rear wheels and get covered in crap. So make sure you take a good look at them. In terms of maintenance, whilst it's tight in there, it is easy to lower the engine to gain better access. Go in with your eyes open, and you won't be disappointed. Whilst down on power compared to an M156 Mercedes 6.2, our 996 felt much quicker than our E63 going by the seat of the pants barometer.

Buy the 996 turbo! I realised I needed one in my life, so did just that 3 years ago. Bought a manual with 70K on the clock from Mike at Sport and Classic, so it had been prepped and brought up to a lovely standard. Mike had rebuild the gearbox in 2012, it had two new turbos at 9E in 2015 so the two big ticket items were done It's got 85K on the clock now, it's my daily driver taking the kids to school, the milk home from the store and also roaring up the roads of Argyll any time I get the chance! It's not been expensive to run (cheaper than my 1999 Carrera 2 I had before it). I budgeted 3K a year (I pay people to fix it, no time or skills anymore for DIY) and i've been spending less than that - I just stick 250/month into another account then pay car stuff out of that. It's a late 2001 model, so got the 2002 makeover of cupholders and glovebox. Has the original Becker stereo, Bose speakers and sub and still sounds good enough for me. I like the single din units but you can easily fit a giant carplay screen if needed. Since I've had it, the spoiler rams failed (which Mike fixed under warranty), a front driveshaft (part was 450-odd from OPC), a starter (300 odd, easy to DIY I believe), and a new clutch slave and accumulator (b d of a job for the indie, about 1000 for parts and labour). I think I need a new alternator as the bearings are squeaking and we did drive belt and all the little idler pulleys earlier in the year. I'd say all the common stuff is easy DIY. Porsche brakes are possibly the easiest to change I've ever seen. I'd go with the recommendation to fit 997 disks - I need to do it. The brakes aren't bad but I think they could be better given how quickly the speed can pile on. Best thing of all, it's hilariously cheap to insure at 220-300 a year (I'm 51 now). It is still (to me at any rate), brutally quick. Standard cars can be mapped on the rollers by Wayne Schofield up at Chip Wizards to a safe and reliable 490ish BHP as well I'd echo getting the hardback sports seats. The interior in them is lovely - leather wall to wall, alcantara roof lining. Feels quite luxury and high-quality

^^^ This. Buy a good one and you're set. Mike at S&C is a great Indie. Maybe ask him if he knows of any going up for sale and also ask him about current gearbox rebuild costs...

Bought a late 2004 996T manual during lockdown. Love it. Owned earlier and later 911s. For me for the money it's the best.

fourwheeler said: So... i'm kind of back to the Turbo.. and is that a bad thing? I mean it looks fairly mean, and by most accounts it's fairly potent...I also really do like the style inc. the lights... No, not at all. I kept my 996 Turbo (x50) for 8 years and its remained in the family. Best car I have owned and not overly dissimilar to the 997 GT3 that replaced it. Funnily enough by unanimous decision all my friends preferred it out of the two, probably because of how utterly impressive it is/was sat in the passenger (and driver!) seat. The larger K24's really belt you backwards, so much so that test drive in an R35 GTR felt no faster. The only car which felt quicker was a 12C I was fortunate enough to pilot. I still remember my drive home after purchase when I finally explored the full length of the throttle.....it made me question how such a car was legal to be honest and it's not like I hadn't driven 'fast' cars before it. Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 20th November 23:19

Mike has always looked after mine.

I ran a 2005 Turbo S manual for 6 years, did about 3000 miles a year in it and it was fantastic. A mate has std (non x50) car and once on boost and the afterburner on, the S waltzed away from the std car. Always felt the 30 hp was a little pessimistic. They were £100k+ new and keeping them in tip top condition isn't cheap, mine had a clutch, brake lines, turbo bolts, and an actuator rebuilt, A/C condensers twice and the side rads changed. Find a good independent and that's half the battle. Anyway if you're still looking for a car - my mates old car, he sold it last year and its for sale again, is here https://www.piloteclassics.co.uk/vehicle-details/u... I have no affliation with the seller, but if your looking for a car that has been well loved and cared for this is the one. never driven in the rain, if it looked like rain or was even the chance of rain it was kept in the garage. its quite a rare colour, being the GT2 colour artic silver rather than polar? and has a black interior. It was his baby, it was always immaculate. Serviced every year at the local Porsche garage and more recently bits and bobs done at a local respected independent. Cleaned and polished to within an inch of its life. he sold it last summer and bought a GT4 after 14 years of ownership.

Polar was a 2k option I think. Usually comes with blue seats too.

killysprint said: I ran a 2005 Turbo S manual for 6 years, did about 3000 miles a year in it and it was fantastic. A mate has std (non x50) car and once on boost and the afterburner on, the S waltzed away from the std car. Always felt the 30 hp was a little pessimistic. They were £100k+ new and keeping them in tip top condition isn't cheap, mine had a clutch, brake lines, turbo bolts, and an actuator rebuilt, A/C condensers twice and the side rads changed. Find a good independent and that's half the battle. Anyway if you're still looking for a car - my mates old car, he sold it last year and its for sale again, is here https://www.piloteclassics.co.uk/vehicle-details/u... I have no affliation with the seller, but if your looking for a car that has been well loved and cared for this is the one. never driven in the rain, if it looked like rain or was even the chance of rain it was kept in the garage. its quite a rare colour, being the GT2 colour artic silver rather than polar? and has a black interior. It was his baby, it was always immaculate. Serviced every year at the local Porsche garage and more recently bits and bobs done at a local respected independent. Cleaned and polished to within an inch of its life. he sold it last summer and bought a GT4 after 14 years of ownership. That is exactly the sort of car I would want to buy. Looks stunning. Job done!

You’ll be hard pushed to find one that was better cared for. He was paranoid whenever he left it anywhere, would park in sainsburys car park if he was shopping at tescos to make sure nobody parked next to it or came close to it. Was always warmed up properly and cooled down before he put it away - and as you can see from the service history it was driven sparingly. He was robbed regularly about it being a cracking car for the next owner. Anyway the proof of the pudding is in the eating - go and have a look. Looks great in the GT2 colour and is quite different to the usual bluey silver they normally come in. Price has softened from last year it’s for sale at £6K less than it was last sold for.

killysprint said: Looks great in the GT2 colour and is quite different to the usual bluey silver they normally come in. Ad states it is Polar Silver which has the blue hue. Standard is called Artic Silver on these.

This ones interesting. Shame it wasn't Polar Silver though as that's nice over the blue interior. Be worth checking the other turbo out and the state of the intercoolers and associated pluming...are they rusted mess or does she look like a dry days car...No aero pack. I haven't seen those wheels before either. I don't think it'll fetch the asking price privately https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211061...

Andyoz said: I haven't seen those wheels before either. I think they're called the Sport Techno. Genuine Porsche wheel and were an option back in the day. I did think the run our C4S with PCCB came with this wheel as standard but not sure.

Good to see one photo of that car in the ad with the spoiler down. Ads where the spoiler is always up make me suspicious that the hydraulic rams have failed, and the owner didn't want to pay the 4 figure bill to replace them!

Sport Techno were an option alloy, I liked them but look similar to the Cayenne alloy which probably didn't do them any favours!

Slippydiff said: The intercoolers aren’t the real problem Andy. It’s the stuff like the aluminium turbo scavenge reservoirs (and specifically the steel pipe/fittings) that go into them, along with heat shields and all the fasteners between the head and the manifolds, the manifolds and the turbos, and the turbos to the cats etc, that are the real problems. Yea, maybe plumbing was too vague a term. Basically all the stuff slung down low that gets the UK road crap flung at it. Flat 6 turbos must be the worst turbo engine congratulation for that? Good thing about 996 Turbos is there's always a good few for sale so you'd eventually find a keeper

This is a fantastic with a broad range of opinions and insight... which is very much appreciated. I also cannot believe that we have gotten to 4 pages without any flames or arguments about something being better than the other.. rare for 2022 internet lol Anyway.. i've been doing some thinking.. and my current thoughts are: Tiptronic Cabriolet Possibly X50 .. f*** it, why not. Let me explain. I've really enjoyed driving manual lately and understand the desire for a manual sports car. That said, I find myself driving it a bit racy.. in the sense that I am chasing the next gear change. That's fine in a 1.6 TDI Golf.. but I imagine it might get me into trouble in a 911 Turbo. I think I also remember myself being quite racy in my Clio 172 Cup, also. I still have the Clio and that will be kitted out as very track oriented soon.. so i'll have that for my proper blasting thrills. I also need to remember that I will be back in London soon and frankly cruising around London in stop start traffic would be a pain in the manual when I am so used to auto. Then we have the cabrio. Well the weather is generally quite good in London and I found myself driving my SL with top down, a huge amount. In fact I wouldn't drive in the Nov-Feb .. and outside that I found I could have roof down all the time pretty much. I really enjoyed it with the v8 exhaust note. I feel like I would like to repeat that with the 911, as I don't see it being a winter car either. Also, on the auto box. Does it have a sport mode? Can it be retrofitted, because I know MB have them. Are they all MB boxes? Is there much in the way of mods to the box to improve it. I seem to recall Alex on LegitStreetCars fitted an aftermarket valve body to his W211 E55 and made the gear changes faster (albeit a bit more brutal). Also, if no sport does it always start in 1st or 2nd gear? I know MB start in 2nd, but sport is 1st. Curious. And much to my surprise, it would appear that the cabrios attract a slight premium. Is that just me, or would you agree? I am surprised to be honest, I thought the typical Porsche enthusiast would like a coupe with no sun roof (sports car). With the X50, it's a nice to have. If there were two suitable cars and one had an X50 for a few extra grand i'd probably opt for it. I have something else (non car related) potentially in flight at the moment, so the 911 will potentially not be ready to buy until say Q2 next year.. but that's fine by me. I'm kind of curious to hold on and see if prices cool a little more. From my current research of late.. anything I pump into TotalCarCheck shows the cars for sale price dropping a bit.. so who knows. In any case.. this is very enjoyable and you guys are helping a lot. Thank you!!

Merc AMG paddles can be retrofitted to the steering wheel. I believe the tip can be sped up a bit but it will never be as fast as a double clutch. Tip cabbie would be a great compromise. If you try it for a year and don't like it you won't lose much money

Sounds a fab car for London. I've always liked the tip.

50k will get you a tippy cab 997tt https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/88618333...

Never driven a 996tt tip or any 996 tip but I believe the lever can be pushed over to the left for sport mode. And then you can also do manual up down changes pushing and pulling. Just looking at the shifter layout confirms this. Have a look here.

Isn't there a double tap the accelerator trick to get it to change the tip box changing map....

I had a manual 996t for a while. I'm a weirdo because I replaced it with an older, slower car in the shape of a 996.1 C4. Performance wise the 996t was miles ahead but I just find the NA car much more engaging and suited to my usage. The turbo always felt heavy, physically bigger and more of a high speed cruiser and no matter what I did it sounded like a Dyson air towel inside. I always wondered if it would have suited the tiptronic better. Not least of all because the gearbox in mine shat itself costing £10k. If I was looking to spend £40k on a 911 it wouldn't be a turbo. I'd either look at creative ways of levelling up to a 996 GT3 or I'd be looking at getting in to a 997.2 or 991 if I planned to used it even for occasional daily use (not sure if they are back at £40k yet) or more likely if it was a weekender I'd go for an older car. There was a lovely red 964 targa on one of the fb groups last week. Edited by nunpuncher on Wednesday 30th November 09:44

Andyoz said: Isn't there a double tap the accelerator trick to get it to change the tip box changing map.... Floor it twice quickly. Like stamp stamp. Puts it into most aggressive fast change high revs mode. Also to the previous post suggest taking out a well sorted and / or modified Turbo - mine sure hell doesn’t sound like a Dyson and for sure does the millennium falcon warp speed thing.

julian987R said: fourwheeler said: Oh that's nice alright.. will be interesting to see what it goes for. Interestingly the mileage is on the slightly higher side than I would expected for something at Silverstone Auctions. There is a rare RHD S for sale (1 of 60) which might be of interest to you. Reputable dealer too as I am sure you know. Lovely colour - the interior might be marmite but makes a change from the pebble grey that so many of that era were specced with. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14153457 Saw that pop up the other day. Looks great but no way I’d pay GT3 money for a Turbo and with those miles you can’t use it without wiping off a load of money. Great spec though.

So i've been browsing and it's been a lot of fun... I was browsing the £50k range on AutoTrader earlier for high powered petrol coupe/cabrios .. £50k get's you a LOT of car! We are talking fresh Bentley GTC .. Aston Martin .. R8 V10 Plus.. 991 911 and some 997 Turbos. ..but keeping on the main topic, there is this lush looking 1 owner low mile 996 Turbo. Boxster red interior is a bit marmite. Kind of nice to look in the window, but i'm unsure about being surrounded by it for any period of time. In my opinion, the best colour combos on a car are navy on cream leather and silver on red leather. (there is a similar R230 SL600 on there too). https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141... I would say that 90% in the current 50k range will still depreciate on usual trajectory.. but the 996/997 Turbo should not.. I guess? (With the exception of correction of current market). I've been browsing and in the past month / 6 weeks it would appear that 10% has come off most of the asking prices for most 911s. Some a bit more.. It also appears there are some higher mile ones with considerably higher asking prices. It's like the guys valued them themselves and just listed the car without checking other adverts. Also .. I have a petrol head friend who is convinced i'm making the wrong choice if I go auto box. He is convinced I will regret it. I am having a hard time figuring that. Now, while my SL500 is an auto box, it's the 7G tronic MB version.. I just love cruising around in it. Manual shifting is cack on it.. but if I want to blast around I just hit the sport button.. which livens up the throttle and also holds gears longer. Admittedly, the 996 box is the older 5 speed, and while "bulletproof" is supposedly ridiculously slow at changing speeds. It also doesn't have sport mode in the 996... so perhaps he has a point. In the middle ground.. I have an old clapped out project L322 4.2 Supercharged Range Rover, which is a ZF 5 speed, no sport mode. It's good fun to blast around in as when you get up in the revs it is lively enough. That said, blasting off from a standstill you really do notice how sluggish the box is. It's fine in the RR as I just bought it cheap and happy tidy it up. But for the 996 I would probably be peeved if the box was like that in the RR. If I did buy the auto box it would be mainly down to driving style and requirements (London traffic).. I would probably be buying it knowing that I will probably want to do the following to the box: - Upgrade the valve body - Do a map on the TCU - Get sport mode installed for the box/engine Has anybody got any experience with these mods? .. Perhaps I need to get into a TipTronic and see what it's like.

How often are you changing gear? If pushing on I hold the steering wheel for dear life ! I do not track mine though. For a six speed 1st=~42 MPH 2nd=~70 MPH 3rd=~102 MPH 4th=~127 MPH 5th=~154 MPH 6th=~190 MPH These are also with stock size tires. In the TIP's 1st=~45 MPH 2nd=~75 MPH 3rd=~119 MPH 4th=~169 MPH 5th=~202 MPH Again with stock tires.

Fair enough.. It's not necessarily about changing up / down the gears.. more about going from stop / start a lot.

I’d say in town - and I used to drive into central London regularly - it was great. Nice and smooth in the slow traffic on the way in as it got busy past Hammersmith and on the way home when the start of the M3 appeared you could unleash it !

David A was that manual or auto?

996 Turbo S tiptronic. Modified by 9e

Also yes that’s a child seat in the back - was on the school run

Lovely David A!! What kind of mods did 9E do? You see this is something else that get's at me... do people who own the tiptronic actually hate them? Or is it the manual drivers and people who have driven neither, who are speaking louder? I don't recall ever hearing a tiptronic owner slate the box and hate it.

Turbo refurbs (is an S so has bigger ones already) Gt2rs intercoolers Switchable exhaust RSS Engine mounts Dump valve Turbo actuators Fuel thingy Stuff and other things Remap More stuff

anonymous said: [redacted] It was a big list ! Can’t remember everything !

It’s the 996C tips that have a bad name - I’ve not heard complaints about the Merc box in either the 996 or 997T Wouldn’t be my choice, but the 996t manual combo is not that nice in traffic IMO, so if that’s where you spend your life, I don’t think a tip is a bad choice

nebpor said: It’s the 996C tips that have a bad name - I’ve not heard complaints about the Merc box in either the 996 or 997T Wouldn’t be my choice, but the 996t manual combo is not that nice in traffic IMO, so if that’s where you spend your life, I don’t think a tip is a bad choice Then drive one in a turbo and see for yourself is my advice. Launching a manual turbo is very tricky, short first gear and hard hitting. Launching a tip in first gear (they usually start off in second for a reason!) is pretty quick. My 1 bar remapped tip clock 0-60 in 3.83 seconds, with 0-100 in 8.17. That is not sluggish, either interns of time or TIPTRONIC 'manual' gear changes. I track my car from time to time, runs 1.40.3 at Anglesey International, which is very respectable given the age of the car. Happily runs close to 991.1 GT3s

Having owned most 911s from 1970 onwards, my take on 996/7 is 997TT is the one I liked the look of most, but the car I liked driving most was a 997 3.6 Carrera manual - £25k for a decent one, sensible to run and service, less worries than most the other models- my 38k miler 997tt needed turbos as the cases were rusty and water pipes etc, even at mates rates it was a very hefty bill.

Even if I had to shift with my face, I'd buy the manual over the tip. The worst auto I've ever had the displeasure of driving. There's not a single reason I can think of as to why you'd want one other than being disabled.

POORCARDEALER said: Having owned most 911s from 1970 onwards, my take on 996/7 is 997TT is the one I liked the look of most, but the car I liked driving most was a 997 3.6 Carrera manual - £25k for a decent one, sensible to run and service, less worries than most the other models- my 38k miler 997tt needed turbos as the cases were rusty and water pipes etc, even at mates rates it was a very hefty bill. I agree. The narrow mody 997's will fair well.

Do not listen to the naysayers re tiptronic. Its a very refined and civilised gearbox for road use compared to PDK IMO. Buy and enjoy. It only really falls down on track where it won't listen to the driver on a down change like a PDK and (no engine braking). Who cares when cruising around London at 20 mph average

Desert Dragon said: Do not listen to the naysayers re tiptronic. Its a very refined and civilised gearbox for road use compared to PDK IMO. Buy and enjoy. It only really falls down on track where it won't listen to the driver on a down change like a PDK and (no engine braking). Who cares when cruising around London at 20 mph average DO listen to the naysayers, Its absolutely dreadful and ruins the entire car. Don't subject yourself to it. Anyone telling you otherwise doesn't know a decent gearbox if it hit them in the face or didn't listen and ended up with the Dinosaur-box. Slow, cumbersome, 5 speed and buttons on the steering wheel to change. Honestly, if you're unfortunately without the use of your legs, I get it. But there is no other reason to ruin a great car and experience with that disaster of a box. IMO of course.

Mumsn3t said: Desert Dragon said: Do not listen to the naysayers re tiptronic. Its a very refined and civilised gearbox for road use compared to PDK IMO. Buy and enjoy. It only really falls down on track where it won't listen to the driver on a down change like a PDK and (no engine braking). Who cares when cruising around London at 20 mph average DO listen to the naysayers, Its absolutely dreadful and ruins the entire car. Don't subject yourself to it. Anyone telling you otherwise doesn't know a decent gearbox if it hit them in the face or didn't listen and ended up with the Dinosaur-box. Slow, cumbersome, 5 speed and buttons on the steering wheel to change. Honestly, if you're unfortunately without the use of your legs, I get it. But there is no other reason to ruin a great car and experience with that disaster of a box. IMO of course. I’m curious where you’re driving a turbo to need to change so much so fast ? Is it track use? Any road I’ve been on in the uk and been pressing on it’s been plenty fast enough changes when in its most aggressive move. Even then staying in second or third has enough grunt to keep you at licence loosing speeds. Pootling around town it’s absolutely fine. On track I can understand it but road use when pressing I. You just use the engine torque and really don’t need to change all that often. IMO of course too

David A said: I’m curious where you’re driving a turbo to need to change so much so fast ? Is it track use? Any road I’ve been on in the uk and been pressing on it’s been plenty fast enough changes when in its most aggressive move. Even then staying in second or third has enough grunt to keep you at licence loosing speeds. Pootling around town it’s absolutely fine. On track I can understand it but road use when pressing I. You just use the engine torque and really don’t need to change all that often. IMO of course too Even at 30mph, that sluggish old mercedes style lumbered change is awful. It reminds of an old smg box thats due for an adaptation. Im not being facetious, i honestly cannot understand why anyone would want one apart from absolute necessity. And those buttons, wtf were they thinking? I think someone early on in the thread conflated this excuse for a box with the pdk, its nothing like it and the comparison is laughable.

Mumsn3t said: David A said: I’m curious where you’re driving a turbo to need to change so much so fast ? Is it track use? Any road I’ve been on in the uk and been pressing on it’s been plenty fast enough changes when in its most aggressive move. Even then staying in second or third has enough grunt to keep you at licence loosing speeds. Pootling around town it’s absolutely fine. On track I can understand it but road use when pressing I. You just use the engine torque and really don’t need to change all that often. IMO of course too Even at 30mph, that sluggish old mercedes style lumbered change is awful. It reminds of an old smg box thats due for an adaptation. Im not being facetious, i honestly cannot understand why anyone would want one apart from absolute necessity. And those buttons, wtf were they thinking? I think someone early on in the thread conflated this excuse for a box with the pdk, its nothing like it and the comparison is laughable. Each to their own then I’ve got a pdk car too and find the tip on my turbo absolutely fine, very good even. Particularly given it’s from an over 25 year old design! Suggest the op tries both and makes their own mind up.

David A said: I’m curious where you’re driving a turbo to need to change so much so fast ? Is it track use? Any road I’ve been on in the uk and been pressing on it’s been plenty fast enough changes when in its most aggressive move. Even then staying in second or third has enough grunt to keep you at licence loosing speeds. Pootling around town it’s absolutely fine. On track I can understand it but road use when pressing I. You just use the engine torque and really don’t need to change all that often. IMO of course too Totally agree with you. It's perfectly suited to my driving and usage style. A manual would be better for track use or for the serious enthusiast.

David A said: Each to their own then I’ve got a pdk car too and find the tip on my turbo absolutely fine, very good even. Particularly given it’s from an over 25 year old design! Suggest the op tries both and makes their own mind up. 25 year old box. Why when you can have a comparable modern 6 speed box? It makes zero sense. I don't want to derail the OP's thread so I won't comment further. But please OP, don't do it to yourself.

This is an interesting thread and it's got some real traction. I can now see firsthand how passionated both sides of the Man/Tip debate are. It's a tough call for me. Next steps for me will be to drive one of each. Part of me feels that while a Tip might be pleasant around London, the manual aspect could be the better long term approach. Reality wise, it won't be my daily around London so even if I drive it in town it will be the odd cruise here and there at weekends. I guess I just wait and see what happens with the market in the next few months. Here is something I spotted as reasonable value (on paper).. Nice spec too. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031... Manual Coupe ~ 77k miles ~ £40k This example has the semi oval tips on the exhaust... what is the difference between these and the double tips I see on most examples. I prefer the others. Actually.... polar silver and metropole leather. Cabrio. This was for sale in 21 October for £44,995 and now listed at £39,995 - That's a drop of 11%. I am seeing a consistent drop of ~10% in Turbos in the last 2 months. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210180... Edited by fourwheeler on Monday 5th December 15:06 Edited by fourwheeler on Monday 5th December 15:09

I'm a big fan of Polar over Metro blue interiors. They are very much colors of their era and for me that's what these cars are all about. That cab sure has alot or presence about it. Go and drive them sure and delve into the service history. You've nothing to lose and I bet dealers are now happy to see customers as you sure don't drop a cars price when there's a queue of them around the corner! I still think a coupe is the better long term option though and Lapis is also a class color. More maintenance to keep it looking tip top though. Edited by Andyoz on Monday 5th December 15:20

fourwheeler said: This example has the semi oval tips on the exhaust... what is the difference between these and the double tips I see on most examples. I prefer the others. No difference - the oval ones were standard and the double tips were a cost option. I am not a fan of the double ones at all, given it's just a fake outlet - the oval ones look great in the bumper, but then I would say that as I have them ;-)

nebpor said: fourwheeler said: This example has the semi oval tips on the exhaust... what is the difference between these and the double tips I see on most examples. I prefer the others. No difference - the oval ones were standard and the double tips were a cost option. I am not a fan of the double ones at all, given it's just a fake outlet - the oval ones look great in the bumper, but then I would say that as I have them ;-) The answer is to get an exhaust where both tips are real

If you did swerve back towards Tip, I'd be looking at this if they still have it after Xmas. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202252...

I don't know about the Guards Red. There is a Speed Yellow on there which is also Tip and 8k miles more, for the same money. I think i'd be on that first. Although perhaps you were alluding to the fact that the red one seems to have been well worked on and money recently spent?

I just think those stronger colors look great in the Turbos as so many were ordered in silver and black...

The red tip one looks great but I think it should be £40k not 46.

irish boy said: The red tip one looks great but I think it should be £40k not 46. Yes, give it a few months..

Good Turbo video just landed from 9Werks. https://youtu.be/FXC6eBUO5Bk

This is an interesting thread and it's got some real traction. I can now see firsthand how passionated both sides of the Man/Tip debate are. It's a tough call for me. Next steps for me will be to drive one of each. Part of me feels that while a Tip might be pleasant around London, the manual aspect could be the better long term approach. Reality wise, it won't be my daily around London so even if I drive it in town it will be the odd cruise here and there at weekends. I guess I just wait and see what happens with the market in the next few months. Here is something I spotted as reasonable value (on paper).. Nice spec too. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211031... Manual Coupe ~ 77k miles ~ £40k This example has the semi oval tips on the exhaust... what is the difference between these and the double tips I see on most examples. I prefer the others. Actually.... polar silver and metropole leather. Cabrio. This was for sale in 21 October for £44,995 and now listed at £39,995 - That's a drop of 11%. I am seeing a consistent drop of ~10% in Turbos in the last 2 months. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210180... Edited by fourwheeler on Monday 5th December 15:06 Edited by fourwheeler on Thursday 8th December 21:32

irish boy said: This manual car close to me has just been reduced by £7k. Very reputable dealership too. https://www.hollybrooksportscars.com/detail/used-p... I like that. Dealers not doing car justice with those photos...I didn't realise it was GT Silver...aero and wheels are interesting

Yea it seems decent to be fair and I'm actually in Ireland at the moment until the new year. The photos do not do it justice at all really. They show the front spoiler.. but advert says removed.. I wonder was is just pulled off by a kerb lol. I'm very tempted by this. If its there in new year I might have a look.

Yea it seems decent to be fair and I'm actually in Ireland at the moment until the new year. The photos do not do it justice at all really. They show the front spoiler.. but advert says removed.. I wonder was is just pulled off by a kerb lol. I'm very tempted by this. If its there in new year I might have a look.

fourwheeler said: Yea it seems decent to be fair and I'm actually in Ireland at the moment until the new year. The photos do not do it justice at all really. They show the front spoiler.. but advert says removed.. I wonder was is just pulled off by a kerb lol. I'm very tempted by this. If its there in new year I might have a look. It’s under 2 miles from me. Very good dealer. They’ve been given the ineos dealership for the country.

On nice, i'd forgot about the Ineos.. when will we start seeing the Grenadier on roads? So that Turbo looks keenly priced.. I am very tempted to take a look. I am wondering what state it might be in. Looks like the nearside exhaust is low.. I wonder do the mounts need doing? I also don't like the S plastered onto the end of Turbo. Are those wheels desirable / expensive? I like the idea of the Aero spoiler as it's one less potential nightmare to keep tabs on.. What's so good about GT silver? I thought it was Polar Silver which was the desirable one. I like the aluminium accents in the interior.

The wheels were a cost option, from the Turbo S. The x50 pack means you get a GT2 engine (only GT2 difference was those bigger turbos and mapping IIRC). They’ve stuck the S badge on it as the turbo S had the x50 kit as standard, but agree it needs to go Good price if it’s a good car

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nebpor said: The wheels were a cost option, from the Turbo S. The turbo wheels are hollow spoke. Are these?

TwinExit said: The prices are already down, the 996 is the cheapest generation of pre-owned water cooled 911's ... but the running costs and ownership costs are just as high as any other generation. I can point out some 'hot potato' these cars to avoid looming big bills, and have the gall to down play the true annual outlay to make 996 Turbo ownership seem like a bargain supercar experience. Forum car hype / ideology at its worst... If people did their research, read adverts carefully, ask directly from Indy's or the dealer for quotes on work or parts - you'll understand the reality level cost of ownership. This was mine yesterday at Bicester. Had it 9 years so I know the costs involved.

cslwannabe said: Coil packs £2k + VAT?!! Why so expensive compared with a standard 986/996? Sorry that was a typo, more around £1K including 3-4 hours of labour. Not a massive difference in the overal cost of upkeep.

shantybeater said: All the items absolutely DO NOT all need replacing within the last 3 years, just get an inspection done to make sure its in good health. Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 11th December 11:08 There are so many other examples on the market that has promised evidence of work done and parts refreshed that you would struggle to sell your own example had nothing significant invested on... the informed potential buyer doesn't care if the car has given you 5 years of fun and laughs, or especially those who brag they got 180 MPH in Germany few years back ... it is all about how many years of solid motoring the car will give the buyer and the x amount required to secure that ownership experience. Just because your car never needed turbos replacing (or insert any other significant item refresh) it does not mean that within a month, 6 months or a year after the purchase these problems don't come crawling out of the woodwork. mikep240 said: They are nowhere near that, the guy's a cretin. £60 each plus vat. Plus fitting at an indy, circa 2 hrs labour if the indy knows the cars. I pay that every 4 years for mine for peace of mind. Now now, be nice, it's nearly xmas! It was a typo, £1K will cover it at around those intervals.

fourwheeler said: ALSO.. What is the story with this "TwinExit" poster..? I mean WTF!? Their tone is aggressive and it feels like they are trying to intimidate me (and anybody else) out of buying a 996 Turbo.... some highlights and points at which I decided to just disregard everything they say. Need to have documented proof that you got bodywork + paint correction done. A 996 Turbo isn't a sports car.. but a C2 is.. - Not diss'ing the C2. But there isn't a universe where you consider a C2 a sports car and not a Turbo. Must a sports car be RWD only!? Quote - "If you don't live in a nice area and not parked on a clean driveway / garage, some will be turned off by that." I've no respect for this poster.. I think what they are saying is complete nonsense and i'm not sure what their end game is. Sure, some expensive work will be unavoidable during ownership.. but having to pony up huge sums just so you can resell is ridiculous. A good pre purchase inspection will show up good maintenance and any items that are due...and any would be buyer should be able to ascertain the quality (or not) of what they are buying. Inspections only give you a snapshot-in-time view of the car's visual and some of its mechanical health. As with any pre-owned car, items that seem fine will need attending to sooner than you realise. And since you're a private buyer - and a potential future private seller, entertaining inspections will be a mini-nightmare as you'll need access to a ramp/lift, plus an extra hour of your time to facilitate inspections ... assuming you have a serious buyer actually turn up like they say they would. It's unlikely you have a shiny show room or a modernised barn conversion to showcase your ride. So having the car stored in a garage/driveway in a nice area gives out a more positive image of what they are buying compared to something parked on a busy road. fourwheeler said: They says DIY is false economy.. oh please! If I do a good job on things like brake lines, bushes, mounts among other things.. and have receipt for various bits. I am sure that will be plenty for most buyers provided the car is well presented. That said, I do plan on getting scheduled maintenance done at a reputable Indy.. just for the stamp of course. I'm enjoying this experience and starting to get a feel for what I want now. But we are talking about a £80K (back in 2003) Porsche 911 Turbo, it's not a thrashed out Nissan 200SX or Subaru Impreza! Most owners would have documented history of work done at Porsche or specialist indies, some work requires engineering expertise which cannot be DIY'ed and it just screams out the owner taking shortcuts otherwise. No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money.

TwinExit said: But we are talking about a £80K (back in 2003) Porsche 911 Turbo, it's not a thrashed out Nissan 200SX or Subaru Impreza! Most owners would have documented history of work done at Porsche or specialist indies, some work requires engineering expertise which cannot be DIY'ed and it just screams out the owner taking shortcuts otherwise. No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money. Thanks for your input TwinExit.

Most Turbos were £100k or more once a few options went on...and that's £170k in today's money allowing for inflation.

irish boy said: This manual car close to me has just been reduced by £7k. Very reputable dealership too. https://www.hollybrooksportscars.com/detail/used-p... Not fancy it yourself? ;-)

TwinExit said: shantybeater said: All the items absolutely DO NOT all need replacing within the last 3 years, just get an inspection done to make sure its in good health. Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 11th December 11:08 There are so many other examples on the market that has promised evidence of work done and parts refreshed that you would struggle to sell your own example had nothing significant invested on... the informed potential buyer doesn't care if the car has given you 5 years of fun and laughs, or especially those who brag they got 180 MPH in Germany few years back ... it is all about how many years of solid motoring the car will give the buyer and the x amount required to secure that ownership experience. Just because your car never needed turbos replacing (or insert any other significant item refresh) it does not mean that within a month, 6 months or a year after the purchase these problems don't come crawling out of the woodwork. Bragging? Really not my style, merely indicating some of the positive ownership aspects, which you seem intent on avoiding. Have you owned one? And on the contrary, a potential buyer is usually VERY interested that the car they are viewing has given many years trouble free motoring in my experience. It's a fairly good indicator (crystal ball aside) of what the car will be like going forward. Sure, nobody can predict a big failure of any major item, but going in with eyes open and a detailed history is the best you can hope for to help any buying decision.

fourwheeler said: Yea it seems decent to be fair and I'm actually in Ireland at the moment until the new year. The photos do not do it justice at all really. They show the front spoiler.. but advert says removed.. I wonder was is just pulled off by a kerb lol. I'm very tempted by this. If its there in new year I might have a look. Re the X50 option, many cars claim to have it, many actually don't. My old car had been sold twice prior to my ownership advertised as an X50 version, once by a very well known dealer along with the premium the option attracts, but it wasn't the real deal. As stated, it will have K24 turbos, along with a hike to 450bhp. The intercoolers are also different, if you can see/feel them from the rear air vents they'll be ribbed, rather than smooth like the standard car. I believe there's also a stronger bell housing, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Check the spec sticker under front bonnet for the X50 code, should also be in the service book. Re the aerokit, daft as it sounds, they were designed to run both front and rear spoilers for aero stability at high speeds, most owners will never get anywhere near speeds where they become effective, but just something to bear in mind. Front aero lip is a pain, catches on dust.

TwinExit said: Sorry that was a typo, more around £1K including 3-4 hours of labour. Not a massive difference in the overal cost of upkeep. Even £1k is nuts. Buy a car and just wait until the next major service to stick a set in. No labour to pay as the garage will have the plugs out anyway. No wonder some folk get ripped off if they can’t plan in a bit of preventative maintenance.

TwinExit said: But we are talking about a £80K (back in 2003) Porsche 911 Turbo, it's not a thrashed out Nissan 200SX or Subaru Impreza! Most owners would have documented history of work done at Porsche or specialist indies, some work requires engineering expertise which cannot be DIY'ed and it just screams out the owner taking shortcuts otherwise. No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money. This is opinion not fact. By using the term shed you imply inferior work quality. And those parts bight off the internet can be the exact same ones a specialist will fit, but without their “bit on the top”. You want at least the servicing done by an Indy, yes, and I’d say anything that involves opening up the engine or box. Everything else from, suspension, to brakes, to air-con rads, etc etc is easily DIY’able. The Indy would check it all over come service time anyway if you needed reassurance. You can go into much more detail when DIY’ing. Cleaning up fixings, re-plating or coating things, etc. You can get a better finish than a mechanic as doing it DIY means it isn’t against the clock. But hey, if you aren’t capable or you just like throwing money away, then sure, get your mechanic to all the jobs anyone with half a brain could.

marky911 said: Even £1k is nuts. Buy a car and just wait until the next major service to stick a set in. No labour to pay as the garage will have the plugs out anyway. No wonder some folk get ripped off if they can’t plan in a bit of preventative maintenance. Common sense prevails. They happen to need removing when the plugs are done, so £60 when visible cracks OR when rectifying an issue. If one goes, best to do the set to avoid a repeat in the near future. Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:28

TwinExit said: There are so many other examples on the market that has promised evidence of work done and parts refreshed that you would struggle to sell your own example had nothing significant invested on... the informed potential buyer doesn't care if the car has given you 5 years of fun and laughs, or especially those who brag they got 180 MPH in Germany few years back ... it is all about how many years of solid motoring the car will give the buyer and the x amount required to secure that ownership experience. Just because your car never needed turbos replacing (or insert any other significant item refresh) it does not mean that within a month, 6 months or a year after the purchase these problems don't come crawling out of the woodwork. I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week. Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault. I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one. Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:30

TwinExit said: No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money. Also tosh, get the car serviced at a reputable specialist and keep history/health reports, and document any rectifications you make yourself. Never been a problem for any of the cars I have sold - point a buyer to a progress thread online showing the work YOU have carried out with receipts - it will only play to your advantage showing how you have looked after the car. Far better than an overpaid apprentice working on it who gives zero s**ts about it. Edited by shantybeater on Monday 12th December 22:31

marky911 said: This is opinion not fact. By using the term shed you imply inferior work quality. And those parts bight off the internet can be the exact same ones a specialist will fit, but without their “bit on the top”. You want at least the servicing done by an Indy, yes, and I’d say anything that involves opening up the engine or box. Everything else from, suspension, to brakes, to air-con rads, etc etc is easily DIY’able. The Indy would check it all over come service time anyway if you needed reassurance. You can go into much more detail when DIY’ing. Cleaning up fixings, re-plating or coating things, etc. You can get a better finish than a mechanic as doing it DIY means it isn’t against the clock. But hey, if you aren’t capable or you just like throwing money away, then sure, get your mechanic to all the jobs anyone with half a brain could. Very well said, Marky! This "twinexit" guy seems to be more concerned with being able to sell the car later on. Personally, i'll be buying the car to enjoy it. Dont confuse that with rag or neglect it. When it comes to sell i'll sell it at a fair value given condition and market etc. I'm intelligent and I learn about all the workings of a system before I go at it..I'll be doing a lot of the work DIY with the exception of servicing (for the certification) and other major engine or box work (touch wood..) I think if you have main services done with indys and then DIY everything else and keep the car well, any PPI should be able to acknowledge that and the state of the car. When I get my lift installed I will get great joy out of stripping down the underside of a car, tidying up, coating bits and bobs and getting it nice and fresh. Edited by fourwheeler on Tuesday 13th December 02:13

shantybeater said: I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week. Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault. I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one. It is an uncomfortable ask, but if you carefully go through recent and future adverts for the 996T, it is not difficult to find examples out there that have had recent & pricey part refreshes done, whilst still asking for similar money as cars that has the original 20+ year old moving parts or those that have blatantly omitted any proper upkeep through the approved channels. No one in their better judgement and have done their research would opt for the latter examples. Inspections only show you how things are prior to the point of sale, and you cannot realistically get a health projection on (for example) turbochargers at viewing. Itself, along side various other items are of common failure, pertaining to this certain make / model of car and will eventually fail or perform well under spec for a car like this. So just because you got lucky with a minimal spend ownership and the inspection does not expose fault or wear on 20 year old parts, statistically they will fail and you simply pass on the risk & cost to the new owner at sale. It is quite feasible in the next 1K to 5K mile window that one or more of the component failures would manifest. It's up to you to laugh this all off in typical PH fashion, but you'll find out the truth in the hard way when you decide to sell the car on.

marky911 said: This is opinion not fact. Opinion matters from a buyer's perspective, it makes the difference between a car being sold at the around the expected market value and those that are not sold at all. The facts are fleshed out on the statistics on owners having footing the bill on expensive repairs/refresh in addition to routine upkeep and consumables. 5 minutes of looking at threads posts on Porsche based owner's club forums and adverts exposes this. marky911 said: By using the term shed you imply inferior work quality. And those parts bight off the internet can be the exact same ones a specialist will fit, but without their “bit on the top”. You want at least the servicing done by an Indy, yes, and I’d say anything that involves opening up the engine or box. Everything else from, suspension, to brakes, to air-con rads, etc etc is easily DIY’able. The Indy would check it all over come service time anyway if you needed reassurance. You can go into much more detail when DIY’ing. Cleaning up fixings, re-plating or coating things, etc. You can get a better finish than a mechanic as doing it DIY means it isn’t against the clock. But hey, if you aren’t capable or you just like throwing money away, then sure, get your mechanic to all the jobs anyone with half a brain could. DIY and Porsche 911 Turbo do not belong in the same sentence ... it screams cost-cutting and Dunning-Kruger. No one informed will want anything to do with that when most other examples on the market are taken care of by Porsche or in the trade specialists.

TwinExit said: shantybeater said: I think you are missing my point a bit here. You state there needs to be proof of ALL of that work done in the last three years which is absolute tosh. As an example the Turbos on mine have lasted 20 years (yes ok garaged and not driven in salty weather). So you have a cat in hells chance most 996T's need Turbo refreshes every three years unless they are driven 100,000 miles a year with a detour to bathe in the sea once a week. Again, coilpacks, intercoolers, radiators (with grilles in place) do not need replacing unless advised or the car shows a symptom of fault. A radiator needs replacing when it starts to leak or rot, same for an intercooler etc... Most of the items you specified as needing replacement either give off indicators (e.g. lumpy running on coils, boost leak on IC's, coolant low or sweet smell/patches near condensers). All of which any specialist will pick up on via an inspection during a service or you will notice via a fault. I stand by my point, get an inspection done, look for reputable service history with health reports (and evidence of any issues resolved). If you find a lottery car which happens to have ALL of it's consumables replaced in the last 36 months then good for you! But since some on that list are capable of lasting 20 years (if well cared for) I wouldn't make it some sort of requirement, you'll never find one. It is an uncomfortable ask, but if you carefully go through recent and future adverts for the 996T, it is not difficult to find examples out there that have had recent & pricey part refreshes done, whilst still asking for similar money as cars that has the original 20+ year old moving parts or those that have blatantly omitted any proper upkeep through the approved channels. No one in their better judgement and have done their research would opt for the latter examples. Inspections only show you how things are prior to the point of sale, and you cannot realistically get a health projection on (for example) turbochargers at viewing. Itself, along side various other items are of common failure, pertaining to this certain make / model of car and will eventually fail or perform well under spec for a car like this. So just because you got lucky with a minimal spend ownership and the inspection does not expose fault or wear on 20 year old parts, statistically they will fail and you simply pass on the risk & cost to the new owner at sale. It is quite feasible in the next 1K to 5K mile window that one or more of the component failures would manifest. It's up to you to laugh this all off in typical PH fashion, but you'll find out the truth in the hard way when you decide to sell the car on. So in summary you’re saying that for identical cars ones with more maintenance and service history will attract a higher price? That is pretty normal for any car from a golf to a Bugatti isn’t it ? If you’re saying that without history the car is only worth peanuts and won’t sell I would disagree, the point being cars get priced accordingly. There are cars at the high price end and low price end. Which are the 996 turbos without history that have gone for sub 20k or which ever price point you refer to?

fourwheeler said: Very well said, Marky! This "twinexit" guy seems to be more concerned with being able to sell the car later on. I am illustrating the likely real-world cost and responsibility of ownership of a car such as a 996 Turbo over a respectable period of time i.e 3-5 years. If you think oil changes and new rear tyres from blackcircles.com is the typical extent of it, you are greatly mistaken. If you think wrenching on your 996T on axle stands every month outside your front door and ph1ssing-off the neighbours will still retain re-sale value, you are greatly mistaken. If you ever intend on owning such a car for a long enough period, it will incur significant running spend, or you take the hit at re-sale (depreciation). Either way, it is not £1K-£2K a year like some on here claim.

David A said: So in summary you’re saying that for identical cars ones with more maintenance and service history will attract a higher price? That is pretty normal for any car from a golf to a Bugatti isn’t it ? If you’re saying that without history the car is only worth peanuts and won’t sell I would disagree, the point being cars get priced accordingly. There are cars at the high price end and low price end. Which are the 996 turbos without history that have gone for sub 20k or which ever price point you refer to? From my observations, the 996 Turbo 6MT examples that have done more than 75K miles have an 'asking price' around the £37K-£45K range from private and trade. It seems mileage & colour+bodywork sets the initial asking price. In the mix of it, there are cars with and without evidence of any inevitable mechanical refresh which is sadly not factored in unless the private buyer flags up this during negotiation ... it gets uncomfortable but you have to dig a bit deeper on the upkeep and provenance.

TwinExit said: I am illustrating the likely real-world cost and responsibility of ownership of a car such as a 996 Turbo over a respectable period of time i.e 3-5 years. If you think oil changes and new rear tyres from blackcircles.com is the typical extent of it, you are greatly mistaken. If you think wrenching on your 996T on axle stands every month outside your front door and ph1ssing-off the neighbours will still retain re-sale value, you are greatly mistaken. If you ever intend on owning such a car for a long enough period, it will incur significant running spend, or you take the hit at re-sale (depreciation). Either way, it is not £1K-£2K a year like some on here claim. Some very strange views being published here, and very wrong in my experience. My neighbours really couldn't care less what I do on my drive or in my garage. And yes, I ran a 996t for 6.5 years, and on average I estimate it swallowed around 1-2k pa during my ownership. Also sold for 'the going rate' to a very clued up buyer in 2021. Edited by plynchy on Tuesday 13th December 14:16

Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate. I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end.. This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments.

fourwheeler said: Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate. I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end.. This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments. Good luck with your search and hope you end up with a good car, they really are special.

fourwheeler said: Guys, i'm really enjoying this thread and there has been some healthy debate. I can't help feel that the thread has been a little bit derailed by the firm and unrelenting arguments put forward by "TwinExit" it feels like they will just continue arguing their points to no end.. This has not happened me before, but can I please ask people not to be baited by their arguments. Don't worry this sort of think happens all the time. PH is all about people's views. And sometimes some people have strong views. It would be unfair for someone to decide which are valid and which are not. So just ieave people to it. If someone has very different views to everyone else this will become obvious and shouldn't damage the readability of the thread. Most people are intelligent enough to gloss over the posts which they feel are not so relevant to them.

Sure that's a fair point I guess. But it's annoying when it turns into flogging a dead horse and never ending. Buti I suppose ultimately you are correct.. better let these things run their course. Debate is healthy.

OP should at least talk to an Indie that works on these cars. They know about parts prices etc. for the big ticket items. Those items may not be needed but go in at least aware. Prices have increased and sometimes they are not available. This has gotten worse the last few years.

TwinExit said: DIY and Porsche 911 Turbo do not belong in the same sentence ... it screams cost-cutting and Dunning-Kruger. No one informed will want anything to do with that when most other examples on the market are taken care of by Porsche or in the trade specialists. I had my suspicions, but you’ve now confirmed them. You don’t really know what you’re on about when it comes to shopping for 20 year old 911s. Enjoy whatever it is you buy and own though. And just to confirm and dispute your selective quoting. Nobody said don’t use an Indy. A combination of specialist servicing/big jobs and DIY pampering is just as desirable though, if not more so. Edited by marky911 on Tuesday 13th December 17:59

plynchy said: Good luck with your search and hope you end up with a good car, they really are special. And still going well plynchy 😀

jetbox said: And still going well plynchy ?? Very nice to see Russell!

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

marky911 said: I had my suspicions, but you’ve now confirmed them. You don’t really know what you’re on about when it comes to shopping for 20 year old 911s. Enjoy whatever it is you buy and own though. And just to confirm and dispute your selective quoting. Nobody said don’t use an Indy. A combination of specialist servicing/big jobs and DIY pampering is just as desirable though, if not more so. Edited by marky911 on Tuesday 13th December 17:59 The idea of DIY being bandied about on this thread is an attempt to mask the typical costs for proper upkeep. It is NOT a desirable aspect when someone is looking to buy these sort of cars.

julian987R said: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale... 10/10

Has the OP actually bought one yet?

TwinExit said: The idea of DIY being bandied about on this thread is an attempt to mask the typical costs for proper upkeep. It is NOT a desirable aspect when someone is looking to buy these sort of cars. Not at all. No one is trying to mask anything but, whereas you see coil packs at £2k plus vat (which you quickly reduced to £1k plus vat, displaying how scare-mongery your initial post was), I see £300. I have done exactly as I mention with regard to specialist servicing and big jobs, plus a whole host of DIY’ing. I usually have a list of people wanting my cars via private message. The one time I did list a 996 as I decided on a whim to sell it, my phone almost melted. So as I say, your view is exactly that, just opinion and is actually so incorrect regarding the vast majority of 996 buyers. They are old cars now and falling into enthusiasts hands. Enthusiasts generally tinker and improve their cars. If you only buy cars that have been worked on by specialists then great, but don’t be thinking you’re automatically getting a better car. You aren’t. As I say one isn’t exclusive to the other. DIY usually means Indy serviced too. Anyway, you have your views and I can see exactly what type of “buyer” you are. That’s fine, I’ve dealt with a few folk like that, but don’t be thinking your way is the only way. I’d say you’re actually vastly in the minority. Anyway, no more thread de-railing. OP. Buy a GT3. That’s always the correct answer. Edited by marky911 on Wednesday 14th December 18:42

To be fair twin exit has some good points. You’re always going to buy the car that has the bigger ticket items done in the last 3 years over a similar priced car without. And they are not cheap cars to run (look at the £4k per year to run a 997 thread) Some years will be, some won’t. I disagree that all big ticket items need done at once. And I also would happily buy from someone who’d changed the likes of the suspension or rads etc themselves as long as they had receipts for the purchase of the items.

A lightly used example…

julian987R said: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale... That’s a good looking car

irish boy said: This manual car close to me has just been reduced by £7k. Very reputable dealership too. https://www.hollybrooksportscars.com/detail/used-p... So boys and girls.. I happy to announce that I am currently en route collect this car. Massive shout out to "Irish boy" for bringing this to my attention as I hadn't come across it on here or AT. I've secured it for a shade less than the asking. The following work needs doing on it: - Leak at rear main seal. - Exhaust flanges corroded. - Turbo heatshields corroded. - Turbo actuator arms corroded. - Brake lines along the floor have some corrosion. - Tyres have no date. So a bit of work.. thankfully not massive parts cost but just mainly blood, sweat and f***s I'll not drive it until I get the RMS and Actuators done. I'll have a lift coming after Xmas and at that point I can get the engine out and do a decent amount of work unimpeded. I don't know the best way to get the RMS done but I might load the engine into the car and bring to a specialist to have it done. While the engine is out I'll probably replace all the coolant and charge hoses with silicon (assume available) I might as well pin the coolant connectors too while I'm there. Turbos mightnt be in great shape so once I've extracted the rotten bolts I may send them off for a refurb. Can you tidy up the actuators and replace diaphragm or is it just a bin and replace job ? Also.. what's the story with aftermarket parts for these cars? I'm not talking about cheap pattern parts but things like silicon hoses and turbo actuators etc.. from the like of Forge and others available on design 911? I know on some cars these things are appreciated but not the 911 is one of them. I mean why would I spring for expensive porsche parts if actuators from Forge look better and cheaper. I'd only buy if they are actually really better though. And to address the point of DIY and masking costs etc.. I can assure you that is absolutely the case. This is the 5th car in my collection and I would still only have 1 if I was paying other people to fix them. I've invested a lot in tools and work space and will continue to do so. I'm not skimping at all by any means. I think I'm going to setup a YouTube channel just to document my ownership and maintenance (and resto) of these cars. Anyway.. very exciting and I am looking forward to getting my teeth into this.

^^^^ Thats a really shrewd buy. At that mileage all the weak spots will have been replaced on top of work you're having carried out IMO. Ask them to confirm no boost leaks once completed too

Also you should pick up phone to Ken or Adam at 9e. They've forgotten more about this platform more than most OPCs. They're always very helpful and knowledgeable. Same with a US guy called Markski. Wealth of knowledge between them and Makski loves DIY people

Great news OP!

fourwheeler said: So boys and girls.. I happy to announce that I am currently en route collect this car. Massive shout out to "Irish boy" for bringing this to my attention as I hadn't come across it on here or AT. I've secured it for a shade less than the asking. The following work needs doing on it: - Leak at rear main seal. - Exhaust flanges corroded. - Turbo heatshields corroded. - Turbo actuator arms corroded. - Brake lines along the floor have some corrosion. - Tyres have no date. So a bit of work.. thankfully not massive parts cost but just mainly blood, sweat and f***s I'll not drive it until I get the RMS and Actuators done. I'll have a lift coming after Xmas and at that point I can get the engine out and do a decent amount of work unimpeded. I don't know the best way to get the RMS done but I might load the engine into the car and bring to a specialist to have it done. While the engine is out I'll probably replace all the coolant and charge hoses with silicon (assume available) I might as well pin the coolant connectors too while I'm there. Turbos mightnt be in great shape so once I've extracted the rotten bolts I may send them off for a refurb. Can you tidy up the actuators and replace diaphragm or is it just a bin and replace job ? Also.. what's the story with aftermarket parts for these cars? I'm not talking about cheap pattern parts but things like silicon hoses and turbo actuators etc.. from the like of Forge and others available on design 911? I know on some cars these things are appreciated but not the 911 is one of them. I mean why would I spring for expensive porsche parts if actuators from Forge look better and cheaper. I'd only buy if they are actually really better though. And to address the point of DIY and masking costs etc.. I can assure you that is absolutely the case. This is the 5th car in my collection and I would still only have 1 if I was paying other people to fix them. I've invested a lot in tools and work space and will continue to do so. I'm not skimping at all by any means. I think I'm going to setup a YouTube channel just to document my ownership and maintenance (and resto) of these cars. Anyway.. very exciting and I am looking forward to getting my teeth into this. Sounds like you have the right attitude to ownership. Similar to my own although engine or gearbox out jobs would be done at a specialist, kudos to you for being brave enough RMS I will assume is down to an oil weep, very common especially if not used often. Actuators on mine were replaced 5~ years back and it wasn't exactly bank breaking, but as you say a good poke around for corrosion of the housings will be beneficial so you know what you are up against. I looked at forge a long time back (used them for all sorts of upgrades on previous cars) and I remember there being some pro's/con's compared to the stock items for the 996T application which put me off. Might be worth doing a bit of research on it. Congrats on the purchase. I don't think anyone commented on the wheels, they are a relatively rare option called 'techno twists' if my memory serves me. They are also hollow spoke I believe. Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 17th December 10:13

ATM said: nebpor said: The wheels were a cost option, from the Turbo S. The turbo wheels are hollow spoke. Are these? Thanks I did ask this earlier.

Glad to hear it. I’ve looked round that car and it’s lovely. You’ll be 2 miles from me when you collect it. All the best with it!

marky911 said: TwinExit said: But we are talking about a £80K (back in 2003) Porsche 911 Turbo, it's not a thrashed out Nissan 200SX or Subaru Impreza! Most owners would have documented history of work done at Porsche or specialist indies, some work requires engineering expertise which cannot be DIY'ed and it just screams out the owner taking shortcuts otherwise. No one will offer you £38K for a car that has had most of its work done in your shed with parts you ordered off the internet, when you can pick up an example worked on and sold by a specialist for the same money. This is opinion not fact. By using the term shed you imply inferior work quality. And those parts bight off the internet can be the exact same ones a specialist will fit, but without their “bit on the top”. You want at least the servicing done by an Indy, yes, and I’d say anything that involves opening up the engine or box. Everything else from, suspension, to brakes, to air-con rads, etc etc is easily DIY’able. The Indy would check it all over come service time anyway if you needed reassurance. You can go into much more detail when DIY’ing. Cleaning up fixings, re-plating or coating things, etc. You can get a better finish than a mechanic as doing it DIY means it isn’t against the clock. But hey, if you aren’t capable or you just like throwing money away, then sure, get your mechanic to all the jobs anyone with half a brain could. Excellent post.

Well done. That dealer generally has good stock but is a bit punchy on pricing but the recent price drop sorted that .

fourwheeler said: So boys and girls.. I happy to announce that I am currently en route collect this car. Massive shout out to "Irish boy" for bringing this to my attention as I hadn't come across it on here or AT. I've secured it for a shade less than the asking. The following work needs doing on it: - Leak at rear main seal. - Exhaust flanges corroded. - Turbo heatshields corroded. - Turbo actuator arms corroded. - Brake lines along the floor have some corrosion. - Tyres have no date. So a bit of work.. thankfully not massive parts cost but just mainly blood, sweat and f***s. Good news. All that work is just stuff any car of that age is going to need. You could’ve bought one with the work ‘done’ (but perhaps not correctly) or do as you have and bought with eyes open, ready to spend the right time and money. Brake lines for certain are something any 911 of this age ought to have replaced. Worth also a check on fuel and coolant lines too. All the turbo associated bits are grist to the mill for a 996 turbo. Enjoy!

Congratulations. Well done.

Congratulations on your new car - as regards all the comments on DIY, and as said above, a DIYer is always going to be able to spend more time, love and OCD care on any aspect of the work. I know it's at the top end of DIYing, but Jackal's 993 is a case in point. shantybeater said: I don't think anyone commented on the wheels, they are a relatively rare option called 'techno twists' if my memory serves me. They are also hollow spoke I believe. According to Florian, and he's correct on most wheelery, they are called Sport Techno, hollowspoke and similar weights to the Turbo2 hollowspoke. They do come up (very) occasionally on an auction site near you, but I'd be tempted to find some cooking wheels to hack about on. http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php Thanks again to Florian Seibold for compiling the Wheel Bible.

fourwheeler said: - Tyres have no date. legal/EU/roadgoing tyres always have dates. They are however only printed on one side of the tyre, which may be facing inwards. But it's unlikely they are all facing inwards. ETA it has at least one Bridgestone S-02, N3 KZ rated I think, which were excellent tyres, my favourite N-rated on my car, but they stopped making them about 15 years ago! Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 18th December 11:50

Thanks everybody, I am thrilled with the purchase. There is a system error now preventing the PCM from producing sound, which I rather annoying... I do know that the car sat around for a while, and perhaps it's voltage dropped a bit and made a mess of things.. I am hoping that. Hopefully the amp isn't blown. Orangecurry said: According to Florian, and he's correct on most wheelery, they are called Sport Techno, hollowspoke and similar weights to the Turbo2 hollowspoke. They do come up (very) occasionally on an auction site near you, but I'd be tempted to find some cooking wheels to hack about on. http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php Thanks again to Florian Seibold for compiling the Wheel Bible. Thank you for this - yes, I believe the wheels are relatively rare. I wasn't gone on them originally but they are kind of growing on me now. Orangecurry said: legal/EU/roadgoing tyres always have dates. They are however only printed on one side of the tyre, which may be facing inwards. But it's unlikely they are all facing inwards. ETA it has at least one Bridgestone S-02, N3 KZ rated I think, which were excellent tyres, my favourite N-rated on my car, but they stopped making them about 15 years ago! Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 18th December 11:50 Interesting .. lol 15 years ago..! I guess that's why he couldn't find a date stamp. In any case. I'll do a full assessment soon and sort them out. Last thing I want is to be running around on perished rubber...

Date stamps have been on all tyres since at least the 1990s - probably earlier. I'm sure he could have found them And there are two sets of Sport Techno on an auction site near you right now - plus three or four singles - how wrong was I? Flipping expensive however.

Thanks for this thread everybody.. I am surprised by the amount of interest and debate it has garnered along the way... yay for PistonHeads. There is a new thread over here where you can follow along on this project and see all the ups and down of which I am sure there will be some of both. Again, thank you all, and see you on the other side...

So here we are in 2025. Fourwheeler have you still got the car and enjoying it? Prices don’t seem to have moved massively. Still 40-45 for a decent sensible mile manual. Private a bit less. Stock doesn’t seem to be moving very fast, cars I saved 6 months ago are all still there suggesting they’re lacking maintenance or the whole market is overpriced. This isn’t an exclusive 996tt issue to be fair.

irish boy said: So here we are in 2025. Fourwheeler have you still got the car and enjoying it? Prices don’t seem to have moved massively. Still 40-45 for a decent sensible mile manual. Private a bit less. Stock doesn’t seem to be moving very fast, cars I saved 6 months ago are all still there suggesting they’re lacking maintenance or the whole market is overpriced. This isn’t an exclusive 996tt issue to be fair. Market for old expensive stuff isn’t great at the minute - not Porsche exclusive

I sold my manual coupe in midnight blue with 83k on the clock for £35K privately about a year ago and it sat for a while. It was a good example as well. In my head, it was a £40K car but in practice, the market for these cars is quite small now, especially with the vanilla 997 values in gadual decent. I don't really miss it.

I also sold my 2004 turbo for £40k 12 months ago, manual, cobalt blue, full aero kit, sport techno's, 65k miles to a private buyer. He was very happy with it. I'd owned it 10 years but don't really miss it either.

simonsti said: I also sold my 2004 turbo for £40k 12 months ago, manual, cobalt blue, full aero kit, sport techno's, 65k miles to a private buyer. He was very happy with it. I'd owned it 10 years but don't really miss it either. I sold mine 18yrs ago @ £40k, glad to see the old girls are still fetching the same !

Are values returning to something sensible? Still 2 days of bidding to go but relatively low mileage 996 turbo on CC for 20ish K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-porsche-9...

Teaspoonasaurous said: Are values returning to something sensible? Still 2 days of bidding to go but relatively low mileage 996 turbo on CC for 20ish K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-porsche-9... There is always a flutter of bids towards the end of these auctions. But this one is a Tip so won't be super high value. Although car does look nice.

ATM said: Teaspoonasaurous said: Are values returning to something sensible? Still 2 days of bidding to go but relatively low mileage 996 turbo on CC for 20ish K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-porsche-9... There is always a flutter of bids towards the end of these auctions. But this one is a Tip so won't be super high value. Although car does look nice. Still only 22,250 plus fees = 24,635

ATM said: ATM said: Teaspoonasaurous said: Are values returning to something sensible? Still 2 days of bidding to go but relatively low mileage 996 turbo on CC for 20ish K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-porsche-9... There is always a flutter of bids towards the end of these auctions. But this one is a Tip so won't be super high value. Although car does look nice. Still only 22,250 plus fees = 24,635

considering I'm thinking of buying this is potentially a good thing I think. it looks like prices are returning to earth

Teaspoonasaurous said: considering I'm thinking of buying this is potentially a good thing I think. it looks like prices are returning to earth It didn't sell so the seller wasn't willing to let it go for that Doesn't mean prices haven't softened But maybe only desperate sellers possibly willing to let go for lower prices ... for now

There's another one that seems to hovering around the same price point: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-porsche-9... While stocks and markets all seem to be doing well, I don't think people are feeling flush just my assessment.

Failed to sell at 28k ish I think. Interesting to see that the market seems to think this is roughly the price, lots of sellers miles higher than this.

Teaspoonasaurous said: Failed to sell at 28k ish I think. Interesting to see that the market seems to think this is roughly the price, lots of sellers miles higher than this. Buyers do not make a Market. You need Sellers too. Just because buyers only willing to pay 28 plus 7% fees doesn't mean that's the Market.

Thread bump! Aside from a bit of “buyer beware” as with any older car, are these still relatively good news? I’m considering a manual for 6-12 months, in the hope that aside from any maintenance or arising issues, I won’t lose a fortune. Sick of getting hammered with depreciation/market dips so trying to buy something a little less sensitive to all of that.

rufmeister said: Thread bump! Aside from a bit of buyer beware as with any older car, are these still relatively good news? I m considering a manual for 6-12 months, in the hope that aside from any maintenance or arising issues, I won t lose a fortune. Sick of getting hammered with depreciation/market dips so trying to buy something a little less sensitive to all of that. If you buy privately and sell privately you may be ok but buying from a dealer and selling to a dealer is likely to have a big profit chunk taken out of each transaction that could easily be £10k+

ATM said: Seen this car on youtube Calvins car diary getting an inspection before being auctioned on planet of dreams. I wonder if there was a reason why it didn’t find a long term owner?

This looks special. Mint. Same owner for twenty years https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1982511

Jones the cat said: This looks special. Mint. Same owner for twenty years https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1982511 I think that’s been up for sale a long while that one?

We had a red 996 and when we were selling it the trade said that nobody wanted a red 911 anymore?

Believe the red one sold a while ago The listing keeps coming up Not 100% sure though

Caddyshack said: We had a red 996 and when we were selling it the trade said that nobody wanted a red 911 anymore? Trade will say anything to make you believe your car is worthless Trade will then tell prospective buyers everyone wants red 911 nowadays and no one wants all other colours

ATM said: Caddyshack said: We had a red 996 and when we were selling it the trade said that nobody wanted a red 911 anymore? Trade will say anything to make you believe your car is worthless Trade will then tell prospective buyers everyone wants red 911 nowadays and no one wants all other colours Whilst that’s true…it was a case of “no thanks, we don’t want it” not “it’s a low price because”

Incredible the price jump for a Turbo S, even with a Tip https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20568119

Jones the cat said: Incredible the price jump for a Turbo S, even with a Tip https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20568119 I really don’t understand that, I deliberately went for a non S to have smaller turbos with less lag, a remap takes power upto 480-490, so unless you want to tune it the S doesn’t seem to be worth the dosh

gareth h said: Jones the cat said: Incredible the price jump for a Turbo S, even with a Tip https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20568119 I really don t understand that, I deliberately went for a non S to have smaller turbos with less lag, a remap takes power upto 480-490, so unless you want to tune it the S doesn t seem to be worth the dosh I don’t think it’s a tuning reason. I think it’s a rarity reason….as daft as that is.

Caddyshack said: I don t think it s a tuning reason. I think it s a rarity reason .as daft as that is. A worse car for more cash, reminds me of the Harry Enfield character “I saw you coming”!

gareth h said: I really don t understand that, I deliberately went for a non S to have smaller turbos with less lag, a remap takes power upto 480-490, so unless you want to tune it the S doesn t seem to be worth the dosh Hi Gareth, the X50 spec used identical hardware to the 996 GT2 (bigger turbos, different exhaust, larger intercoolers) albeit with a different map. Turbo lag wasn't really an issue as long as you used the best quality fuel you could find, and you kept the turbos/manifolds and cats as hot as possible. From Google AI : "High thermal energy increases exhaust gas volume and velocity via expansion, delivering more potential work to the turbine blades" In other words, the more thermal energy, the better. It was noticeable on my commute from N.Wales to the Midlands, that out on the open road and driven hard, lag was all but non-existent, but drive slowly through a small town or village, and the car's ECU would pull timing and adapt to the driving conditions and driver inputs. The throttle response became softer, and lag more obvious. Bury your foot at the NSL sign leaving said villages/towns, and the lag would be obvious. But a couple of hard pulls up to 110-120 Leptons, and normal service would be resumed. I fitted a Ruf exhaust on my second GT2 (cup of coffee/glass of wine recommended) : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... and had it re-mapped to allow for the vastly improved flow (courtesy of some massive cats and modified internals in the silencer) and asked the mapper to write a map that brought the boost in earlier and in a more linear manner, the throttle response was vastly improved irrespective of whether you were pottering around, or "making progress" out in the sticks.

Clearly the answer is to have an S, have it modified with GT2RS intercoolers, other bits and bobs inc switchable exhaust and a proper map from 9e, then its by far the best and most desirable. Also S always has hollow wheels vs the normal ones which I think are dependent on year so therefore also faster! I may be very biased in my response here though

Market has really firmed up for these IMO. There was a good number of them available about 18 months ago but now suddenly very hard to find good hardtops under 55k. Quite a bit of influencer press flying around the 996 in general at the moment and its having an effect - even well specced Carreras are inching towards 20k, and you're onto 30-35k+ for a decent manual 4S now.

We test drove the one in Ashgoods earlier in the year. 50k miles and 50k lower price. Also a tip. Settled on a manual C4 instead as I prefer the narrow body, wanted a manual, don’t need the performance and didn’t like the silver painted interior. I’d have ceramic brakes though as I have them on the Macan and love them! Was a great car but not for me. And yes they told me just how rare they are - 250 RHD if I recall.

Caddyshack said: gareth h said: Jones the cat said: Incredible the price jump for a Turbo S, even with a Tip https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/20568119 I really don t understand that, I deliberately went for a non S to have smaller turbos with less lag, a remap takes power upto 480-490, so unless you want to tune it the S doesn t seem to be worth the dosh I don t think it s a tuning reason. I think it s a rarity reason .as daft as that is. Plus it's only done 9,000 miles.

Slippydiff said: Hi Gareth, the X50 spec used identical hardware to the 996 GT2 (bigger turbos, different exhaust, larger intercoolers) albeit with a different map. Turbo lag wasn't really an issue as long as you used the best quality fuel you could find, and you kept the turbos/manifolds and cats as hot as possible. From Google AI : "High thermal energy increases exhaust gas volume and velocity via expansion, delivering more potential work to the turbine blades" In other words, the more thermal energy, the better. It was noticeable on my commute from N.Wales to the Midlands, that out on the open road and driven hard, lag was all but non-existent, but drive slowly through a small town or village, and the car's ECU would pull timing and adapt to the driving conditions and driver inputs. The throttle response became softer, and lag more obvious. Bury your foot at the NSL sign leaving said villages/towns, and the lag would be obvious. But a couple of hard pulls up to 110-120 Leptons, and normal service would be resumed. I fitted a Ruf exhaust on my second GT2 (cup of coffee/glass of wine recommended) : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... and had it re-mapped to allow for the vastly improved flow (courtesy of some massive cats and modified internals in the silencer) and asked the mapper to write a map that brought the boost in earlier and in a more linear manner, the throttle response was vastly improved irrespective of whether you were pottering around, or "making progress" out in the sticks. Hi Slippy, I don’t think my license would last long if I had to keep it that hot!