Pdk problem!!!

Glad to hear and hopefully the end of it. Not so scary stuff when it's in warranty,.....but would still make me cringe a bit when it is out though. I would have to take issue with the $12k replacement price,....logic would say that a manual tranny would then be about $8 - $9k to replace?? Maybe so, haven't shopped for one lately... Problem I see with the PDK is all the ancillary parts, clutches, pumps, etc. Any one of those goes out and it could be a $1 - $2k bill on the spot. What happens if and when a clutch in it goes out?,....can it be replaced or does the whole PDK need to be refurbed? There are many good techs that can rebuild a Porsche manual, will there be the same for a PDK?....probably not any time soon. Hopefully won't be necessary.

The PDK gearbox itself most likely will never fail (gears, clutches, shafts etc.), it's the "Mechatronic unit" that is the main concern because the cost is anywhere between **edit**...$$ & is the "brain" for PDK . I posted a pic on the previous page, but here it is again.

We need to be very careful with these unsubstantiated estimates of future repair costs of new parts or their impending failure that seem to originate from the friend of a friend or even the mechanic on duty that doesn't do bookkeeping. As far as I know there are no repair/replacement costs that are verified to date. That is how the Internet rumors start and they do no one any good but seem to hang around with negative effect forever.

What we are NOT hearing is Porsche telling people that PDK replacement won't be covered by your warranty. (Read that again carefully...LOL) That is the difference between owning a Porsche and a Nissan GT-R. :cheers: Porsche generally does a good job of standing behind it's products. Imagine that the first thing your dealer told you was, "You might have stomped on the gas too hard. No warranty for you!" Or how about waiting weeks for ANY transmission warranty repair is "evaluated" to determine if they will pay regardless of cause? In a brand new car. By the way, the 996 TT manual transmission has a known synchro issue where the car pops out of gear. It is an $8,000 fix and it affects resale value just like EVERYTHING YOU MIGHT NEED TO EVER REPLACE ON AN EXPENSIVE CAR WHEN IT IS NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY IS EXPENSIVE and affects resale value. My $95k SL was $50k when I bought it with 3 years and 30k miles... still under factory warranty. 2 years, 15k miles and the warranty expiring made it worth $25k. And it was PERFECT. Only a Cayman could separate me from that beauty for such a ridiculous price.

Now that's something to say out loud *evil laugh* :hilarious:

+1 Very well said

Guys, what scares the hell of out me is this. I just got out of a direct injected BMW with 2 high pressure fuel pump failures and now I am seeing a 2010 CS having the same problem in same area, Socal, as well? If there is the case I have to say there's something fundamentally wrong with how direct injected engines are designed.

My high pressure fuel pump on my DFI VW Golf GTI was perfect for the 4 years. I didn't hear of any fail on the Golf forum. Must be a batch fault I'll say.

Direct injection has been in the diesel world for some time. Big commercial trucks surely use big, strong, overengineered fuel pumps. I would suspect the pumps on street cars are engineered down, both as to weight and to cost, as much as possible. Hence, the failures. This is always a compromise and the pumps will be engineered up in the future if needed. As you guys know, the number of parts suppliers in the world is going down through business failure and consolidation. The bad news is this means lots of failures when a problem arises across many car lines; the good news is many car companies will be screaming for a fix.

Excellent post and right on the money.

Can someone with a 2009 or 2010 Cayman with PDK tell me where in the owners manual or any other warranty information that comes with the car I can find that the PDK is warrantied for life of the car. And if so does that mean all owners or original owner. We have a little Honda CRX in the family and with it being just about 20 years old and 137,000 miles I took it to the Honda dealer two weeks ago and got a new muffler and tailpipe under warranty . Also had the drivers seat belt and mechanism replaced for free, under warranty . Now the cost compared to a PDK is not even close but I have found that expensive does not always mean the best warranty.

Aaaahhh, finally, we have the picture of the turbo encabulator. Yes, yes, the problem looks obvious. We have a slight temporal misalignment between the flux capacitors and the dilithium chambers. Yiykes, I hate that when it happens. You just got to get Scotty on this problem. . I hope you get it fixed soon.

A 20 year old Honda (or any car) has a warranty?? How come Yup, that's exactly what I thought. That's why we cant get a stable warp field :hilarious:

Lots of eggnog today by any chance?

I suppose you have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale as well.....

Yes, Nitro,if you have the original muffler replaced at a Honda dealer then, the replacement muffler is warrantied for the life of the car!!! Isn't it just grand and I didn't even have to contact Scottie, the flux muffler is just doing fine. As far as seatbelts they are also warrantied for the life of the car. I think seat belts in all vehicles are under that warranty as it is a safety issue. I will take a picture of the warranty pages and post them sometime in future. Also, I take it on some short trips and it gets 41-42 mpg on the highway.

No bridge for sale here, just an invoice that reads $000.00 for the replacement muffler and seatbelt replacement. The service manager said if I would have had to pay for the items and labor it would have been between $350-$450.

Noo, actually that is exactly the opposite. Just a little eggnog in my rum.

One thing I have not seen in this thread that makes me wonder: the OP noted several different problems including his PDK issues. Wouldn't all these things be grounds for CA Lemon Law replacement? I don't know about the rest of you but if I had a car with that many problems that early on, I'd probably be looking for my emergency chute.

UPDATE: I've had the car for ten months now and have driven it 15K miles without any new problems. Knock on wood!!! I love this car.

My bad luck continues. Long list of problems with my 2009 997.2 : bad water pump, damaged radiator, overfilled oil change by dealer, dash board rattle and now the transmission. No problems driving around town at a moderate pace. I turned on the Sports mode and started accelerating more aggressively. Between 2nd and 3rd and again between 3rd and 4th the car started to buck... as if the car wanted to up shift was was stuck. Thump thump thump.... kinda felt as if the clutch was slipping. I turned off the sport mode and tried aggressive acceleration again, same problem only not as pronounced. I go back to moderate acceleration.... no problem. Once it shifts into 4th no problem. Anyone else ever have this issue? I have about 12K on the car. Going to the dealer tomorrow.

If your dealer has not already done so it may be related to the following: WM 373025 ELIMINATING TRANSMISSION SYMPTOMS--RE-PROGRAMMING DME CONTROL UNIT AND PDK CONTROL UNIT (VEHICLE JERKING WHEN CHANGING GEAR Some PDK cars require this software update which helps the shifting issus.

The update was performed a couple of months ago....

UPDATE: About a block from the dealer the "check engine" light goes off. Then I am surprised to learn that the service department is closed on Saturdays. Left the car on the lot and will head back on Monday morning.

Is it against the rule to post the cost of replacing the unit? I noticed that the last post was edited to eliminate the cost. It actually seems like a very good topic of discussion especially in light of the debate of PDK vs. Non PDK . If the last post is accurate the cost to replace the unit is almost 25% the value of the car!!!! Seems like something the community would be interested in. In any event, thanks for the suggestion. Any and all info and ideas are always welcomed.

Sorry to hear about all your troubles, but I think we need to reign this in a bit as we don't even know what the problem is yet. Could be something very simple, or yes you might need a whole new PDK ,....and given you are covered by warranty I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm sure Porsche has done much testing on the PDK and would not have released it if it wasn't fit to do so. Having said that though, it IS a complex piece of machinery controlled by many sensors & computers and could be very costly to repair in the future when out of warranty. One reason I will be sticking with the tried and true mechanical 6-speed manual for any future Porsche purchases.

The image shows a typical dual wet clutch Mechatronic unit. It is bolted directly to the transmission. The control unit uses information such as engine speed, road speed, accelerator position and driving mode to select the optimum gear and to determine the ideal shift point. The hydraulic control unit then implements the shift commands in a complex sequence of individual, precisely coordinated actions. The computer is constantly learning as it has to adapt to driving styles/modes etc. sometimes the unit will need a reset as conditions exceed capacity. If the computer fails to recalibrate correctly or its learning patterns are quirky then replacing the Mechatronic unit may be an option.

I thought the PDK came with a lifetime warranty? I don't remember which thread I saw it in. I considered that warranty a good mitigation for the risk in choosing a new (to Porsche ) technology. Anyway, sorry to hear about the trouble. *** Update *** The person who said it had a lifetime warranty was Ken ... http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-chat/24755-hands-pdk.html

Lifetime?.....I don't think Porsche ever heard of the word. Could be wrong though.

Not only Porsche , but the entire automobile industry. :gossip:

The problem you describe is not normal. Most problems to date w/ PDK have been electronic. However, if the dealer cannot easily fix the problem (i.e. reprogramming) Porsche 's policy has been to remove the PDK and send it back to Germany, replacing the unit w/ a new PDK . This is new technology and to some extent we are beta testers. They are also learning from us which may be a little difficult for some to accept. Porsche knows this which is why defective units are being sent back for tear down, but they tend to be very secretive about what they find which in turn fuels all sorts of speculation on the internet forums. Let us know how this proceeds, posts like this are important, although I know its frustrating to have to deal with these problems.

Jesse, I am sorry for your problems with the car. I want to agree with DaveC and say that many folks are interested in the PDK and wonder about the sort of problems that might occur and the fixes for them. While I am confident Porsche will solve your issue, please keep us informed on your progress.

There is a similar issue with cars using CVT and with the lower cost models the CVT replacement cost can approach the value of the car!

+1 That is where my aversion to risk presently lies too. Manual gearboxes are pretty simple and bullet proof. I know m 06 may have a RMS issue and a few other niggling things in its future, but until the DFI/PDK units get more miles/time on them there is no real way of knowing what their issues may be. Not trying to scare anyone off, just the reality of new designs, etc. Change will always occur and some are more accepting of being on the leading edge in terms of buying (06 CS was essentially adopted from the 05 BS so it was one year in the development pool....):cheers:

Of course, there is a converse. Had no one bought the 1997-99 Boxsters due to well founded (albeit retrospective) early adopter aversion there would be no "proven" Cayman to purchase in 2006. If no one goes first, there is no next .

For the most part I would tend to agree, but there are a few noticeable exceptions here. The 97-99 Boxster was a truly revolutionary, company saving effort by Porsche at a time when no real equals internally and for the most part externally existed. For '97 the only car Porsche had to sell was the 993 with the 968/928 now gone. In the true sense there was no valid substitution for the Boxster at the time. If you wanted a Porsche , it was the very long in tooth old school, air cooled 993 or the very modern mid-engined Boxster . For many the choice was easy, and the Boxster sold. The key words here are "valid substitution". Fast forward to today, and you now have a whole lineup of modern offerings each containing roughly the same technology. What we have with PDK is IMO an expensive offering of a different, not really new technology that simply does the same action as valid and enjoyable substitutes. You can argue its faster, better, etc., but it still has a very valid substitute,....the "no cost" tried and true manual. So while I still believe the PDK is a great offering, when considering the up front cost and the possible long term costs vs. any benefits PDK may have, I'll be sticking with a very good substitute the tried and true manual,.....and cautiously waiting on the sideline to see how the new adoptors of PDK fair. In the mean time I'll still be thoroughly enjoying my manual and not worrying about it.

Of course I agree with your analysis. There was a frenzy over the Boxster intro that Porsche hadn't seen since the 944. Also, early adoption of new but less costly technology (i.e. computer, cellphone, HDTV) carries far less risk than PDK at least in financial terms. Were Porsche less capitalized and offering shorter warranty timeframes I would have been far more hesitant to buy in. This is one major reason why I am risk averse to aftermarket additions to my Porsche , while others differ and the majority have had excellent experience. I was just pointing out that w/ any new technology, somebody has to go first if it has any chance of maturing to become acceptable to a wider audience.

Okay folks, here is the final outcome: They re-programed and calibrated the DME and updated the TCM software (again). The diagnosis found codes: U0418, P1990. I have not had a chance to drive the car hard (its raining in L.A. and the traffic is bad) but it seems to be running much better than when it was new (possibly the updated software or maybe it just feels that way after driving a Cayenne for four days). In addition, I complained that the car had to crank a second longer before the engine started. Diagnosis found code: 1021. They replaced the high pressure fuel pump . I asked the service manager what the cost to replace the metronics on the PDK is. He made a face and stated it was "really expensive." Then mentioned it was "at least 12 grand." Yikes. Let the debate begin. Finally, I saw the dealer take delivery of the Panamera . I only saw it for a brief moment from a distance and it took a couple of seconds for me to realize what it was. It still had some of the protective wraps on and it looked huge and very, very odd.

Porsche must do something about PDK replacement cost before early cars come off warranty. The used car market will crumble when word gets out PDK repairs could cost $12,000 to $15,000

I periodically check this thread since I have a PDK . I'm glad to hear you are not having any further issues.

I'm confused/skeptical here. How can something that's a $3,400 option cost $15,000 to replace?

The price of a rebuild is not 12k to 15k. I believe that is for a brand spankin new one. I remember when I blew up a brand new one and got it replaced I had the same question and fear. A rebuilt one is alot less expensive forgot the price but it was not bad. dave-t