I ve finally found my ideal drivers car - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

After lots and I mean lots of cars and searching for a great drivers car, I think I’ve finally found my ideal car. Following a spate of fast Caterhams, several fast classics including a genuine mk4 Cobra, Morgans, including the very first Aero and many modded Plus 8s, TVRs, an i8, an AMG GT, I finally got into 911s. After a 991.2 Carrera S, I went for a GTS and then a 991.1. And although they were great cars, I never fell in love with any of them as there was always something missing. This applies to every car I’ve ever owned, some have been very fast but uninvolving, or stunning to look at but too wide for our roads, or great GT cars but too stiff and harsh over potholes and not proper sports cars. Until my current car, which I have fallen for more than any of the 40 or so other cars I’ve owned. It’s a 997.1 C2 manual, with a rebuilt engine. It’s the right size, handles beautifully, quick enough and just great along our imperfect roads. The suspension is compliant, the steering feel is sublime and it drives like a true sports car should. It’s also a bit of a bargain at the moment. It’s a genuinely great car and right now I have no desire to replace it, which is also a first! What a brilliant and surprising machine the 997 is.

Every year since forever, the next, latest, rarerest, 'mostest limited' edition 911 - GTS, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, R, ST, STD, LGBTQ, whatever - has stolen the limelight. And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost. Enjoy!

Digga said: Every year since forever, the next, latest, rarerest, 'mostest limited' edition 911 - GTS, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2, R, ST, STD, LGBTQ, whatever - has stolen the limelight. And also just about every year, some very worthy and knowledgeable motoring journo will say - the most underrated and best value 911 is at the basic end of the range. Chassis dynamics, engine noise, steering, it's got 80-90% of what any of the best have, at a fraction of the cost. Enjoy! 100%,the marketing hype sadly puts these in the shadows. Pleased to see its a manual and not a sit and steer auto pdk thingy

I've been lucky enough to drive a whole host of exotica the last few years, some directly back to back with my 'fettled' 996 and the first corner back in the 996 makes me smile/ laugh every time, they are just so good. Some of the aforementioned, a major service probably isnt far off the worth of my 996

Apropos of this, out of the blue, my brother in law messaged earlier in week that he was getting rid of his Panamera and had specced a new 911. He sent the build for me to look at and it was lovely. C2, 19" wheels - a perfect, sensible, usable and not stupidly expensive daily driver. Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must.

I really enjoyed my 997.1 C2S , now, even though I have a manual 992.2 GT3T my 2008 987.1 RS60 is an absolute joy , easier and just as rewarding as the GT3 at 10% of the price , forget all the bore score bores the back catalouge of cars are amazing things to own .

The reason why it’s probably so enjoyable to drive is that’ it’s less than a tenth of the price of a 992.2gt3 so it ends up being less precious and used as intended so even a 986S would give the same amount of pleasure IMO that’s what a true drivers car should be, something you use all the time and not sat in a garage only to come out when the sun is shining for cars and coffee. Cars like the 997.2 GT3/RS have climbed so high in value that they are bought by “collectors “ and no longer driven which is a real shame. I can see good low miles 997.2 C2 etc (manual) following the same trajectory as cars like the 997.2 we’re common place on the roads and in adds a few years back but sadly no longer and were built in low numbers compared to 991/992 Generations

This is very interesting. I’m currently contemplating upgrading my 991.1 C2S for an AMG GTR but wonder if I should just buy a GTS and keep the 911 as well (and buy my wife something shiny to convince her I need two cars that never get driven)

The 992 GT3 and probably every 911/GT3 variant after it are and will be supremely competent machines but really have become a bit too GT (and in my opinion too large) and their 911/Sports car DNA only becomes apparent at really high speeds. Therefore a 997 feels like the perfect sports car in comparison and the last of the 'true' 911's. A COMPACT sports car that handles sublimely and has amazing steering and brake feel - and easily enjoyed at 50/60mph. The 992 has lost a lot of the 911 DNA, but new car buyers have no choice but to buy it.

Digga said: Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must. Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it’s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver’s car.

wax lyrical said: Therefore a 997 feels like the perfect sports car in comparison and the last of the 'true' 911's. A COMPACT sports car that handles sublimely and has amazing steering and brake feel - and easily enjoyed at 50/60mph. The 992 has lost a lot of the 911 DNA, but new car buyers have no choice but to buy it. To be fair to the 992 similar was said about the 996 / 997 at the time. I think the last of the true 911’s was a 964

997's are not at all fragile. I have a Gen 2 C4S and use it as a semi-daily. Three times a week commute to work and weekend fun drives and events. About 8k miles per year. Crumpet said: Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car.

I too have been fortunate enough to own some great cars over the years, including most generations of 911. I am a serial changer and rarely hold on to a car for more than 2 years, but we have had our 997.1 manual for 18 years, which says a lot about how good it is. And it's a Hartech 4.1 now, which makes it even better. Edited by MinchCS on Saturday 22 August 08:23

Crumpet said: Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car. Maybe running a 997.1 GT3 without, my view is jaundiced, but I was replacing a front splitter every year. That car was extremely low, on Ohlins coil overs and track geo, but there’s always a place. Random, big speed bumps, the ferry ramps in Rotterdam…

another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow

The 997.1 is probably one of the nicest looking 911s, never forget the top gear when they took it to the IOM. Always shyd away from 997.1 after I had a catastrophic IMS failure on a 986S at very low miles and the bore score stories that followed so always looked towards 997.2, but in hindsight when a low miles 997.1 could be had for £20-25k and then went with a Hartech rebuild/upgrade as and when and if its engine failed it would have been a shrewd purchase.

Crumpet said: Digga said: Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must. Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car. On GT3’s it’s seen as a “must have” I do use it on mine…sleeping policeman and the like. A mate bought a second 991.2 GT3, didn’t have FAL which didn’t bother him as he’d never used it on hid first one. When he eventually sold it took a while to shift. Whilst you might not want it plenty of people do !

brownspeed said: another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth?

bennno said: brownspeed said: another Hartech equipped manual 997.1 C2S owner here. I've had mine around 8 years now and it really is very capable and useable. I bought it as it was the best I could afford at the time. Impending grandparenthood and the associated need for practicality means that I'll probably have to sell it in the next year. At least the zero depreciation will soften the blow Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth? Roofbox, rails and folding ultra light prams you can lift up = coolest grandad on the block…. Did similar in fatherhood with a 993 / 996 / 997. Remember going to Mothercare and asked the assistant to check the front trunk on the 993, she outlined we’d need a different car. What we actually went for was a different push chair retailer that had one that fit the 993 :-)

bennno said: Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth? I don't know roughly what its worth, a quick trawl of autotrader shows similar mileage 997s to mine are being pitched at 23k upwards without the Hartech rebuild. @996Type; yeah I considered that route, but the prospect of trying to wrestle a writhing bundle into the back seats fills me with dread. It's probably time for a change* . I'm also doing maybe 2k a year in it, it seems a waste. Of course as soon as I sell- I guarantee the 997 prices will follow the 993 trajectory!! to grow up!!

edit; somehow a repeated post; DOH!

brownspeed said: bennno said: Out of interest, what do you think your car is roughly worth? I don't know roughly what its worth, a quick trawl of autotrader shows similar mileage 997s to mine are being pitched at 23k upwards without the Hartech rebuild. @996Type; yeah I considered that route, but the prospect of trying to wrestle a writhing bundle into the back seats fills me with dread. It's probably time for a change* . I'm also doing maybe 2k a year in it, it seems a waste. Of course as soon as I sell- I guarantee the 997 prices will follow the 993 trajectory!! to grow up!! And 80k miles coupe manual C2S with engine rebuild was listed 2 weeks ago for £32,000, it had also had suspension arms and dampers replaced within the last 10k miles, coolant pipes replaced, Y Cable done, and looked in pretty good condition. It sold in 24 hours.

culminator said: Until my current car, which I have fallen for more than any of the 40 or so other cars I ve owned. It s a 997.1 C2 manual, with a rebuilt engine. It s the right size, handles beautifully, quick enough and just great along our imperfect roads. The suspension is compliant, the steering feel is sublime and it drives like a true sports car should. It s also a bit of a bargain at the moment. It s a genuinely great car and right now I have no desire to replace it, which is also a first! What a brilliant and surprising machine the 997 is. Definitely consider a DSC Controller, the ability to take the PASM damping to 2026 levels of control is so impressive. Standard becomes even more comfortable but with less tilt and roll and just better over all control, and sport becomes something a bit special. The speed at which the car reacts and controls changes in direction and the the improvement of turn in is really impressive. It is getting quite expensive now, and hardly ever in stock as it sells out so quickly for the 997.1, but definitely worth grabbing one at some point. A mate of mine ditched his Ohlins after having a go with the DSC controller, he bought it because he was doing a trip to Italy for 3 weeks with his wife, and although the Ohlins handle wonderfully they are not the most passenger friendly set up. After getting the DSC he was so impressed he did a track day with the DSC to really test it out, he was so impressed he didn't bother putting the Ohlins back on. Enjoy the new toy!

Sure, but it is a great compromise and a 1 hour upgrade, you need to move to Nitron or Tractive to truly better it. I find most alternatives far too firm for most roads.

DSC with PASM is nice for brisk-ish motoring. But if you really want to attack a good B road, the factory dampers have limitations the controller can’t overcome. Edited by housemouse on Sunday 23 August 18:55

I think Ohlins RT or KW V3 probably better than factory dampers with the DSC box. Ohlins especially if you can spec the springs. But I take your point. Certainly Bilstein B16 Damptronic for 9x7 cars is a bit s t, even with the DSC box. Bilstein really is a lazy, complacent company. The B16 product for this platform is the same now as when the first 997/987 cars came out 20 odd years ago.

I actually prefer the standard (Bilstein) dampers with the DSC over the Ohlins, and the ohlins were with much softer spring rates. For the road anyway. I have been in his car with the Ohlins, the out the box set up and then with a much softer spring rate, they were very good, but the DSC with the stock dampers was a better road set up, unless it is super smooth tarmac, which is getting rarer and rarer. To be fair he tweaked the geo and the DSC settings to get it spot on for his car, which I appreciate not everyone will do, but it got me to buy a DSC controller. You can tell the actual damping is better with the Ohlins, but the overall feel of the DSC is nicer. I would love to try a DSC with Nitrons.

DSC is an excellent upgrade, for not too much money. I tried it on my 997.1 GT3. For track though, even the DSC was a bit slow and Ohlins R&T, with the right setup and geo was absolutely first class. Incredibly adjustable, so you could run well at fast, smooth, flat circuits like Silverstone GP and then tune it down in stiffness for places like Oulton or Nurburgring. Very simple, easy adjustment too.

Agree 100% get a DSC, I would say it's the best bang for your buck upgrade and an easy install even on a .1. If you're lucky enough to find one used you sell it on again and be guaranteed to get your money back.

Crumpet said: Digga said: Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must. Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car. Ran a 992.1T for 8000 miles without axle lift, inc on and off ferries and never needed it once….

finmac said: Crumpet said: Digga said: Only thing I had to tell him he'd got 'wrong' was front axle lift, which is a must. Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car. Ran a 992.1T for 8000 miles without axle lift, inc on and off ferries and never needed it once . BIL will be likely doing a lot more miles than that. He's an FMEA engineering expert/contractor, so he's all over Europe.

Crumpet said: Not really arguing one way or another, but why? I never grounded out my 992 GTS on anything and that had the -10mm suspension. Anyway, as someone currently in between cars it s interesting to hear the praise for 997s. I keep looking at them but wondering if they might be a bit fragile for a semi-daily. As much as the 992 was a perfect daily car it really did lack something as a driver s car. Obviously you could get unlucky, but allow an immediate post-purchase budget of say £1,500 to £3,000 to inspect the car and attend to common things like coolant cross pipes etc to get the car in shape and should be a reliable daily. I’ve done a couple of hundred thousand miles in various versions this generation of (non-GT) Porsche over the last 10-plus years and they’ve all been pretty reliable. Not perfect, but far from basket cases. Much of the time they’ve been my only car doing about 15k miles a year, though for the last three years I have admittedly moved to a two car solution, mainly to have something better suited to muddy winter dog walks! Trying to get the mileage down to 5k a year to not wear the current one out so fast, but thus far the lowest annual I’ve managed is 9k! They’re too enjoyable to drive!