lhd 996? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

No catch. Just look at www.mobile.de and do a conversion between EUR and GBP. Remember that the 996 ain't no spring chicken, and that they've churned out quite a few now... some of which are high mileage autobahn munchers. Also, they were much cheaper in Germany than the UK, at launch. I think new list is something like 49k in Germany. Well worth considering as a scond hand buy, to be honest. Rgds Domster

Cars sold so is academic now spec for those numbers people out there was 97R, 41k miles.

Dom, that's a good site. Rich, it probably is just too cheap. High mileage? Early 996? Several owners? We run into the LHD question here, in relation to driveability and re-sale value. Driving a LHD car depends a lot on individual attitudes. I and my family have had no problem with this, not just because we live in a low-traffic area. My younger son used our Quattro in London without difficulty, and my wife ditto on long journeys to the Midlands. Re-sale value and import problems may be another thing altogether, and Walter U could perhaps advise on this. Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications? Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder, and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape? Walter?

I have imported a couple of cars from Germany, and it's not too bad, although has got harder now that they insist on type approval (SVA?). "Can you go to Germany, buy a car, and simply bring it here without the need for expensive modifications?" Yes, in essence, you can. As long as it is over 6 months old to avoid VAT, and over 3 years old to avoid import duty (AFAIK). So second hand cars are the best to bring in. Then you need to get it through an MoT (offside fog light needed, UK spec headlights plus other bits 'n' pieces - I think that a kmh speedo is still acceptable, as long as it works), get it registered (pay some dosh to DVLA) and now get it through type approval. This means getting a certificate/letter from Porsche (for about 80 quid I think) and making sure your car is to UK spec. Oh, and if this part requires an SVA test (I think it does) it'll cost you 500 quid. Job done... eventually! It used to be quicker, as 'personal imports' were exempt from type approval if you could prove thye car was used over there. Proof was normally a few petrol receipts and ferry tickets etc., so use was often a few hours drive back from the dealer! "Do they have their version of our HPI check I wonder" Not sure. I used to wing it. It's safer to buy from a main dealer, for sure. "and when it comes to re-sale can you take it back to Germany and sell it without any red tape?" Well, it'll be UK spec and be UK registered. CArs are normally cheaper there, so not much point. Otherwise, keep the old bits, convert it back and see if they would be interested in re-registering it. Not worth the hassle, probably. As far as driving is concerned, I have an LHD and RHD car at the moment, and swap between them with ease. Don't even think about the differences any more. It just isn't an issue once you get used to it - there are pros and cons either way. Biggest LHD killer is that UK resale is about 20% below RHD on average, and that s/h market is much more limited/specialist. Moral - buy LHD, but buy it to keep. Oh, and I'm selling my Lotus Omega at the moment, so 'keep' for me means 18 months! I was getting through a car every nine... Cheers Domster

Useful stuff guys. Personally don't think I could see myself going through all the hassle to import SH from Germany, I can't spare the time off work to go searching, though would be fun I guess! Buying a LHD here is very much a possiblilty given that you get more for your money. I only drove a LHD car for the first time this summer (Spain) but had no problems. Figure the real issue on UK roads would be overtaking, guess you have to be a bit more careful given the restricted view from the 'wrong' side. How do you cope with that?

There are points to note with LHD cars and overtaking: 1) In theory, you should look down the inside of a car you are overtaking, to check for cars leaving junctions etc. in the distance. This is easier in a LHD car than a RHD car. 2) Visibility is worse on the offside, of course, but is only severly impaired if you are tailgating. At a safe distance, the difference in views between LHD and RHD is less than imagined. 3) If you have a decent car, the 'hanging back' distance isn't so important. I can gain a hundred yards in a few seconds in my LHD Lotus Carlton. 4) In the tragic instance of a collision, the driver of a LHD car is more protected, as he is furthest away from nearside traffic. RHD drivers tend to come off worse. I must point out here that this only relates to instances where the LHD car has an empty passenger seat, and that overtakes should always be taken extremely safely and with due regard for others. Other benefits: - Easier to ask questions from pedestrians - Stepping out onto pavement, not into traffic Other disbenefits: - Ticketed barrier machines - Toll bridges One other legendary benefit that happened to a solicitor friend of my dad: - The police tried charging his passenger with a motoring 'driving' offence, after coming to the window of the car at nighttime and inviting them to 'step out of the car'. On confirming the reg number in court, the solicitor (defending himself) revealed that the car was LHD and that the police were charging the wrong person. Verdict: case thrown out.

current base new price around DEM 143,000.00, exchange rate around 3.15, so that's around 45,500.00 pounds sterling. Rip-off Britain ... But IIRC no 3 year warranty in Germany. Rgds, WalterU

Re toll bridges/roads - always kept a child's butterfly net in the Quattro to pass out the cash - even got a smile out of the toll man (quite something on the Forth Bridge)!!

like it McNab! Have to go through a barrier to get to work. Looks like I'd just need a pass card on a stick.... Cheers for the tips Domster, as you say on a decent road then from the left you should be able to see pretty much as well, and if its that twisty then you shouldn't be overtaking LHD or not! I've only seen the one left hooker up for grabs so far, anyone know of somewhere that would specialise?

Glad to help. The 996 is still a rare LHD s/h buy in this country. It would really be a case of bringing one back yourself, or keeping your eyes peeled in The Sunday Times, 911 and Porsche World classifieds etc. For most LHD cars, it is just as cheap and less hassle to get one that has already been imported. (Not the 996, as of yet). Re LHD cars and tolls/barriers, I used my LHD 944 cab every day at a company that had a card barrier system. No hassle getting out, but you did get the odd smirk from RHD colleagues in Fiestas etc. Memorable toll experiences: - Dartford tunnel. Darts skills came into the fore as I wound down passenger window electrically (always a good LHD option!) and threw a pound coin into the basket at twice the distance. Would have kept throwing quids in as necessary, as would have been too embarrassing to get out if I'd missed! - Severn bridge. Went to manned toll booth. I apologised for having to get out, bloke said 'if I had a car like that (silver 944 cab) I would be happy to get out for toll bridges...' Fair enough, really. These are nice cars we are talking about, not LHD Metros! PS McNab's net idea is pure genius!!! Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 January 17:15

Other dodge: if you're using cards or tickets get a short stick (2'6"). Visit architect. Pinch nice shiny clip off his drawing board. Drill hole in end of clip. Screw clip to end of stick. Insert card/ticket in clip. Poke in direction of toll man. Awkward if there's a strong wind and the card/ticket blows away. Never happened to me, but these clips need regular forcible adjustment just to be sure.

my only tip for anybody considering a LHD 996 is to adjust the seat runners by 90 degrees. That way the seat slides left to right, thus enabling easy car park barrier access etc. in all seriousness dealers are now selling RHD 996's for 40k, with a bit of negotiation say 38K. I was told trade money is now 34K upwards so if you wait a bit you could have a RHD one for the same money. Bennno Edited by bennno on Wednesday 23 January 21:24

www.mobile.de is AFAIK currently the biggest of its kind. The insurers have their own database. Its a totally different system in Germany. By tendency new prices are lower in Germany, but used values hold up better, so its probably only really worth importing a new car. Go to a reputable dealer. He will get you a customs number plate to take the car out. You don't pay german VAT IIRC, but have to pay UK VAT on import. Headlights must be switchable to RHD, or have to be replaced. As for english buraecracy - you lot know that better than I do! With a Used car you will a white document called "Kfz.-Brief". Hang on to this for dear life. Under german law it is proof of ownership, without it you cannot register a car in Germany. If someone else gets the Kfz.-Brief, you have a major problem proving that you own the car. When you export it back to Germany, put the german headlights back in. You will need a new Kfz.-Brief - the old one expires if the car has been off the road in Germany for more than one year. You send in the old one, they fill out a new one using the info in the old one. New Kfz.-Brief costs around 50 Quid. Go to the TÜV - pay 60 quid - and that's about it. Rgds, WalterU

Many thanks Walter. Doesn't sound nearly as difficult as I had expected, and all things said and done the new car option sounds best. Wish people here weren't so hesitant about LHD, because that's where you'd come unstuck when you wanted to sell. LHD would probably rule out part-exchange for a new car at most Brit dealerships.

I suppose I could wait... But that would be boring. If the RHD ones really are going to be on dealer forecourts at 35k in the summer then maybe I could hang on.. If thats the case then a LHD car at 33k probably isn't a particularly good investment... I figured porsche residuals were rock solid though, ho hum. Looks like maybe a 993 is a better option.

no it isn't difficult, but it takes time. LHD does rule out part exchange in Britain - as I know by personal experience. But then cars are much cheaper in Germany anyway, so I buy my cars in Germany. But its one of the reasons why I won't buy TVR. The list price of a Chim in Germany is higher than a Carrera 2. When the exchange rate was DM 2.2 per pound, car prices were more or less on a par. A Vauxhall Omega cost about 1500 quid less than a german Omega. But then the pound went through the roof, and the prices for imported goods, which could have dropped around 50%, just stayed the same. Talk about windfall profits ... Rgds, WalterU Edited by WalterU on Thursday 24th January 11:04

Will the dealer selling a RHD 996 for under 40k please stand up.... And shout - very loudly!

i got mine for 42K 3 months ago, it is a late S reg with 29K miles. I would say it is a good spec with sports seats, sunroof, traction control, sports suspension kit, 18" split rims, sports s/wheel, full leather, sports exhaust etc... i have seen on the official web site that there are some 97/98 R reg cars around with 40-50K miles on which are up for £41-£42 but with no part ex and deft negotiation dip under the 40K mark. I did take a look at a LHD 360 modena and was told trade on mine is between 35-38K so it should be possible to do the deal! Bennno

Saw a 99 360 F1 lhd up for £74 k when i was back over Christmas ,seemed cheap , how much was the left hooker you looked at Benno

74K by chance....thats why i went to look Bennno

What didn't you like about it bennno? Apart from the fact it was 30k more than your 996.

They could only put a limited residual on it, which meant i was looking at £1000 a month, rather than the £450 a month the POR**** costs me due to its excellent residuals. If it had been say £3-£400 a month more i would have gone with it. Bennno

Are you on contract hire or PCP? Sound like good figures. I was looking at remortgaging the hamster hutch for my next purchase, but maybe a deal like yours is sensible. Was the deal from a main dealer? Cheers Domster

996 is on pcp, buy price was 42k, deposit 8k, £450 a month for 48months, £20K final! by way of reference (i am not being derisory!) my griff was 38K, deposit 8k, £614 per month for 48 months, £17.5K final The 996 is cheap in comparison due to the in house, low finance rates pgb offer and the residual values they can guarantee. Bennno

I'm I being retarded or are you saying that over 2 years depreciation and financing will only cost you £6K?

eh? 22K depreciation by 4 years = 5.5K service £300 & tyres £300(2) = .6K interest etc = ? Yeh i guess 6.1k per annum baring any disasters Bennno

Cheers bennno. Interesting figures. I'd always been a loan/cash car purchaser, but buying older supercars has meant that maintenance bills for clutches, brakes, suspension components and engine fettling has sometimes cost me as much as 6k a year on top anyway. It's just I always convince myself it won't!!! Do you ever plan on paying off the balloon, or will you just give 'em the keys and maybe get something else? Suppose it depends on book price at the time. Cheers Domster

yeh same here, i had been paying £1000-£1200 a year servicing and almost the same depreciation on a cheaper car! In truth the Porsche is an extravagance but as i can also use it every day (as it needs no trips to the dealer for remedial work) it seems to make sense! Bennno

Guys, can you explain PCP? Is this a company car purchase style scheme, or is this something i, as an amployee of someone else, can do?

Careful Bennno you have been banned for 24 hours for making less inflamatory statements Edited by marki on Friday 25th January 10:26

Mr Tony, PCP stands for Personal Contract Purchase (or Plan, in some finance dictionaries). It is a way that anyone can buy a car - privately or through a company - using finance facilities provided by the car manufacturer, dealer or a third party finance house. Ford were the first to make it really popular, and they called it 'Options'. PCPs are popular because you only finance 'half' the car... so your monthly payments are lower. Say bennno's 996 would cost you a nasty 1k a month over 48 months on a normal loan, PCP lets bennno have it for 400 GBP... Much nicer monthly cashflow. The way it works is that you: 1) Pay a deposit (can be as low as a grand!) 2) Pay smaller monthly payments for between 1 and 4 years (usually) 3) Pay a lump sum at the end of the loan period to own the car. This is called the 'balloon' payment and is like some kind of 'final deposit'. So you are only financing 20k, not 40k over 4 years, in Bennno's case - and in theory your monthly interest payments can be less, as there is less to finance. However, what if you can't pay the 20k bill in 2006, to own the car outright? This is where Options came in. Basically, if you can't pay the balloon, you give them the car back. The loan company are happy, because the car should always be worth a little more than the end balloon payment, so they're quids in. And you've had cheap 911 car hire for four years. Another option that Ford did, was that you could start another PCP with them on another car - start from scratch, in effect - thus locking you in as a loyal customer. This only worked on PCPs with small deposits, say 1 grand, as to keep you keen Ford would waive any downpayment or deposit, and just keep the payments going at a new rate, depending on what you're chopping the car in for. Anyway, cars with good depreciation characteristics are suited to PCPs, as the balloon can be set quite high, so the amount financed is less. In theory, if you could get a 'zero' depreciation supercar like an F40, there would be little to finance over four years apart from depreciation caused by use/wear and tear. The monthly figures would be dead low, although they'd still want a massive deposit to show that you were serious about it. Sadly, I have yet to find a finance company who'll make the figures a reality!!! Rgds Domster Edited by domster on Friday 25th January 10:57

Oh right. I didn't know it was called that. So basically as long as I pick a car (e.g. porsche) with solid residuals then I'm on to a winner effectively. Looked at doing the same with a cerb recently, but they set the balloon at 10k, on a 30k car over 3 years. A porsche with a 20k balloon on a 40k car over 4 sounds better fincancially. So either in 4 years time i decide to keep it and re-mortgage/get a loan for the remaining 20k/cash in some shares etc etc etc.... Can't actually see the catch, as long as their interest rate is reasonable (benno - was it much greater than the average 8.5/9.0% high street loan price?) Edited by mr_tony on Friday 25th January 11:03

I have done some work for Mercedes Benz finance, and I think I should tell you that their beady eyes lit up like Christmas trees at the thought of punters going for PCPs. That is a warning, by the way! You'll find that the cheapest method of buying a car is always with ready cash, the second cheapest a re-mortgage loan, the third cheapest a good bank loan. PCPs come in at around No. 234 ;-) The interest rates are always somewhat higher than competitive high street rates, or even straight forward Hire Purchase, as the PCP finance people know that punters are attracted to the low monthly payments like flies around horseshit. They know that they can get another per cent or so out of the punter without a squeek, as the monthly figure will seem much lower than alternatives anyway. PCPs make sense for bennno because: 1) the 996 has great residuals 2) it shouldn't go wrong 3) it is very cheap to service - much less than older 911s 4) Porsche GB seem to have quite good finance rates Rgds Domster

Figured as much, I've always been a cash buyer for that reason, and the plan for the next car was similar. Sell current car privately for as much as possible, get bank loan at lowest possible apr, take big bag of money to dealer and squeeze them hard. Personally I don't really like the idea of having a 20k 'balloon' hanging over my head... But if I could see the APR and do some sums as you say it might be justifiable for 4 years spent in a very comfy 911....

pcp's are normally fairly expensive because you normally have to pay a load of interest on the outstanding balance for the full term. If the car has a good residual though it sometimes makes a comparitively expensive car affordable. By way of example we were looking at either a new AMG C32 or the 996, 996 came in at £450 whilst the C32 (same price) came it at £780 with MB finance! That said PGB were doing variable rate + 3.5% so i make that 7.5%ish at the moment, pretty competitive. If you have the money then for sure it is cheaper to buy outright, or finance the whole thing over the shortest period possible, but on a 40k car you then up with ridiculous repayments. I heard the mortgage idea before, but have always felt this is at least 6.5%ish and you are effectively spreading the loan over 25 years, so the total cost would be massive. Doing some basic maths you could borrow 35K on your morgage for £215-£232 per month, but then thats an astronomical £64-69K for the privelidge (or far worse than the 5K ish interest i will pay over 4 years) phew... (bank loan is a good idea but I was led to believe its 15,20 or perhaps 25k tops unsecured for those of us non titled, commoners) Ben Edited by bennno on Friday 25th January 14:37

"By way of example we were looking at either a new AMG C32 or the 996, 996 came in at £450 whilst the C32 (same price) came it at £780 with MB finance!" No wonder the buggers at MB Finance used to grin like a w--nking J-p when they were working out the PCP deals!!! (No offence to w--king J-ps intended). PS - bennno - the best way would be to remortgage and then pay that part of your home loan back early, say over four or five years... of course, if you're only saving 1% it may not be worth the hassle. Sounds like a top deal from the boys at Porsche. You've got me thinking you bastard ;-) Edited by domster on Friday 25th January 15:38

Got me thinking too! Benno you obviously are running this as a company car as you're on the variable rate, any ideas what their fixed rates were? (help me out here otherwise I'll have to go into a dealer and ask, and I know what will happen then.....)

I was trying to guess the blanks are they.. -an----- -a- I guess if you have a flexi mortage that is the best way, i dont trust myself on that front so went for a 25 year cap at 6.25%, hedging my bets or what! No you can have variable rate on a private pcp, you pay less interest and if you want to settle after 6 months there are no charges unlike a fixed rate pcp!! you can get this on a TVr as well if desired and is normally cheaper, but slightly risky if the rates go up. There are some pro's and cons so talk in a bit more detail to somebody in a position of knowledge. Bennno Edited by bennno on Friday 25th January 15:52 Edited by bennno on Friday 25th January 15:56

cheers benno

Only just been redirected to this thread by mr tony. The last page was very interesting reading. I'm changing my car in the summer and have virtually settled on the idea of a 996 c2, although do tend to waver a little thinking about a 993tt or 996 gt3, it's only the cost issue keeping me away! I was always going to pay cash but you've got me thinking. If I could extend my budget like this (PCP), without screwing myself monthly, I can look at slightly pricier cars. Say, I put down 45k deposit, on a gt3 for example, which costs 65k. Would this mean virtually NO monthly payments (which is very good) and a final balloon payment in a few years of the remainder 20k? If this is the case I might consider it. Please can someone clarify....? Thanks v much.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think they'd finance this because they won't be making much money on it. There are quite a few admin costs with any credit arrangement, and some big fat commission to go to some shiny suited shitwit. Best bet would be to maybe get a charge against your house (remortgage) for 20k - if possible - (probably about 150 quid a month) or a 20k bankloan. Over 5 years, a 20k loan would be about 350 quid a month I think. It could still be worth a try with Porsche Finance, though. They can be quite flexible, but I bet they still try and shaft you somewhat. Rgds Domster

Cheers domster, mr tony's on the case with dealer quotes too.

No probs. For what it's worth, if I were in your plimsolls, I'd go for bosshog's 993TT in Polar Silver for 38k. That said, it is LHD and running costs on a TT are much higher than on a 996 C2, simply because of the size of brake pads, rotors, tyres etc. As for the 7k change... well, that's an awful lot of cocaine and call girls. All the best Domster

Lol. If I go with the GT3 I really want, I might have to make a few sacrafices. Call girls will have to be replaced by the missus and a porno, the sherbert dab will be of the corner shop lolly variety. Anyway, I'm off to get pissed and pull some city fluff around islington / clerkenwell. Laters P.H's...

Ok time for a new thread on here! Just seen an ad for a lhd 996 fo 30k, from a dealer in west london. My question to all you very knowledgeable folks is --- how? Anyone else seen left hooker 996's for that sort of money? Seems very cheap, so there must be acatch right?