Cayman service history - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hello, I currently looking at a 2012 2.9 cayman which has a full service history from independents, the car is due major service in 6 months. I've always done my own servicing and basic maintenance. Anything more taxing went to my neighbour who is a retired mechanic. My question is how much would it affect future value by doing the work between myself and neighbour. Thanks for any advice

Provided you keep receipts for the parts, should be no major issue.

Already 14 years old, seeing the owner changes the oil and filters every 4-5k miles would be far better for me than seeing it go into Porsche every 2 years and 15k miles. I would buy a service book and fill it out and put all the receipts into a folder.

I should add. The main reason to keep Porsche Service History is to be able to keep their excellent warranty. But that ends at 15 years old anyway.

Yes. At this age, history and condition is more important than a "correctly" stamped book. That wont cover thr things which are now considered consumable: suspension, coolant pipes, exhaust etc. I do all my own servicing (2008 Cayman S) but then its a keeper, paid for in cash, And I dont care...!

I disagree slightly. It will narrow the market. Some buyers will want to see stamps and bills. That’s the reality. Not saying it’s justified, just that some and probably most will. How much impact that has on value is harder to say. With the right buyer, possibly none at all. But how long will that take for the right buyer to emerge? Personally, I would pay for very basic oil servicing on schedule to get the stamps in the book which will keep those kinds away of buyers happy, costs buttons in the broad scheme and then do everything else as you wish. You really won’t be saving much changing the oil yourself but you could be impacting resale.

After my 8 year service by an OPC which was awful I decided to my servicing myself. I always have changed the oil at 5,000 mile intervals anyway, but the huge saving of doing it myself means I can do much more preventative servicing with the cost savings, plus I know its been actually carried out. For example, I would love to know how the OPC used 2 ltrs of brake fluid but when I 'dipped' the bleed nipples with a cocktail stick the next day, every sigle one was bone dry with not a drop of brake fluid present. Oil was on the bottom green segment, whilst screen washer cap was open, but took 2 ltrs of water to refill. Oil filter canister looked untouched, with a uniform layer of road film present. Quite how you remove that item without any tool or finger marks is a mystery. I did get a service stamp that only cost me £1,000 though.

I do some jobs myself and indeed enjoy it. However, for basic servicing, I use a independent specialist. The main reason I do this is for the inspection part of the service. I want a professional to look over the car and advise me of upcoming issues and general wear and tear issues. You can then keep on top of everything as you please, doing any jobs that you are confident to do yourself. A fully stamped up book with receipt's is always a good thing.

would you be buying it if didn't have a full history? That might be the best way of looking at it.

andygo said: After my 8 year service by an OPC which was awful I decided to my servicing myself. I always have changed the oil at 5,000 mile intervals anyway, but the huge saving of doing it myself means I can do much more preventative servicing with the cost savings, plus I know its been actually carried out. For example, I would love to know how the OPC used 2 ltrs of brake fluid but when I 'dipped' the bleed nipples with a cocktail stick the next day, every sigle one was bone dry with not a drop of brake fluid present. Oil was on the bottom green segment, whilst screen washer cap was open, but took 2 ltrs of water to refill. Oil filter canister looked untouched, with a uniform layer of road film present. Quite how you remove that item without any tool or finger marks is a mystery. I did get a service stamp that only cost me £1,000 though. What did the OPC say when you brought it to their attention?

From my perspective and if I were in the market for that particular car, I'd want to see service stamps from either an good Indie or an OPC. Given the age I'd be leaning more towards a good Indie. Would I move on from one that's been maintained by the owner? Probably. We all know these cars can have issues, some of which go unnoticed by owners but are picked up by Technicians when it comes to a service. They have the knowledge and experience to look at potential known issues and fix them to an acceptable standard. I'm not saying that you're not capable but from a potential buyers perspective I'd be concerned.

Thanks for the replies and advice on both sides they are much appreciated. I've had a quote for the major service from my local independent specialist (well 79 miles away) for £1200+VAT does this sound excessive or I'm i being nieve in the costs involved with with porsche ownership. Would be my first

I would expect you care more about your cars than the garages who work on them. DIY servicing in particular is an easy way to save money with minimal equipment and skills required. If you're really keen you could buy service components and parts from your local dealer (pay a slight premium) and get a nice looking invoice and continue to fill in the service book. You could even try a custom stamp for added cachet! I might be in the minority but this is the sort of person I like buying a car from privately.....usually a member of forums.....

housemouse said: I disagree slightly. It will narrow the market. Some buyers will want to see stamps and bills. That s the reality. Not saying it s justified, just that some and probably most will. How much impact that has on value is harder to say. With the right buyer, possibly none at all. But how long will that take for the right buyer to emerge? Personally, I would pay for very basic oil servicing on schedule to get the stamps in the book which will keep those kinds away of buyers happy, costs buttons in the broad scheme and then do everything else as you wish. You really won t be saving much changing the oil yourself but you could be impacting resale. Porsche use Mobil 1 5w40, which is more like a 0w20 after 1000 miles, and they say every 2 years or 15000 miles. They also charge you the best part of £500. You can buy a really high end oil, like Motul Porsche A40 8100 for £70, a Porsche Filter is £18 and a filter and housing is £32 (should be done every 4 years as the pressure relief valve can come away). If someone fills the book out, and shows the oil has been changed every 5000 miles with maybe a main service every 4 years showing plugs and brake fluid etc. done. I genuinely don't think it will effect the sale of a 15-20 year old car. In fact I know the opposite form experience. To be honest, it also sorts out the sort of buyers you want to deal with too while selling.

Ed.Neumann said: Porsche use Mobil 1 5w40, which is more like a 0w20 after 1000 miles, and they say every 2 years or 15000 miles. They also charge you the best part of £500. You can buy a really high end oil, like Motul Porsche A40 8100 for £70, a Porsche Filter is £18 and a filter and housing is £32 (should be done every 4 years as the pressure relief valve can come away). If someone fills the book out, and shows the oil has been changed every 5000 miles with maybe a main service every 4 years showing plugs and brake fluid etc. done. I genuinely don't think it will effect the sale of a 15-20 year old car. In fact I know the opposite form experience. To be honest, it also sorts out the sort of buyers you want to deal with too while selling. What Porsche charges is irrelevant. Nobody is saying the OP needs to go to an OPC for oil changes. I would consider a self-serviced car, too. But, so what? You're making the mistake of extrapolating your preferences onto the broader market. Most buyers, even of these cars, are not full-on enthusiasts. Most want to see stamps in the book and a very conventional history. Moreover, a lot of specialists wouldn't buy a car of this type / age that's been DIY serviced. Another narrowing of the resale market. It's absolutely true that the right buyer will be happy to buy a car that's been DIY serviced. But even that buyer, if savvy, will factor the car's narrower resale market when setting a valuation. So, to not lose any value, you're looking at a niche within a niche - buyers who are both happy with DIY servicing and also happy to overlook the reality of a narrower resale market. Personally, I don't think the slim savings of doing literally everything DIY versus having the oil changed at a good indy on schedule (do some additional interim changes DIY by all means) make any sense. The official schedule for most people's mileage will be every two years. Most indies charge, what, about £250 for an oil change? So that's about £125 a year to have the right stamps in the book and cover off that market? Personally, think it's a no brainer.

I don’t know anyone that services their own car that doesn’t genuinely believe and wouldn’t claim they do it better than a garage. The truth is the majority only do it to save money and only the minority do a better job of it. Having made a living out of putting right what people have messed up I wouldn’t want to buy a car that was maintained by the owner if I didn’t know them.

981Boxess said: I don t know anyone that services their own car that doesn t genuinely believe and wouldn t claim they do it better than a garage. The truth is the majority only do it to save money and only the minority do a better job of it. Having made a living out of putting right what people have messed up I wouldn t want to buy a car that was maintained by the owner if I didn t know them. With the mentality highlighted below, it's easy to see how parts get fitted incorrectly, components stripped or cross threaded, overtightened, not tightened, damaged from a removal process centred on brute force and/or all too often, ignorance, or not fitted at all ... chden said: I would expect you care more about your cars than the garages who work on them. DIY servicing in particular is an easy way to save money with minimal equipment and skills required. If you're really keen you could buy service components and parts from your local dealer (pay a slight premium) and get a nice looking invoice and continue to fill in the service book. You could even try a custom stamp for added cachet! I might be in the minority but this is the sort of person I like buying a car from privately.....usually a member of forums.....

Having read the responses I'll have to accept the majority opinion here that self-servicing is going to reduce the value and limit the future buyer pool for your car. Slippydiff said: With the mentality highlighted below, it's easy to see how parts get fitted incorrectly, components stripped or cross threaded, overtightened, not tightened, damaged from a removal process centred on brute force and/or all too often, ignorance, or not fitted at all ... Perhaps I'm naive in thinking removing a nut, watching oil draining into a pan and replacing a filter is quite hard to make a hash of although I accept it's possible. If the motivation is purely cash saving I agree that isn't a great indicator of how the rest of the car may have been maintained. A huge advantage of private sales is the previous owner smell test.

I decided against the car after having a second look at it discovered the sound deadening on the drivers side footwear and back was soaking. So just goes to show that although car had good service history and had a verified £6,000 spent on it last year doesn't mean it's a good car to buy

981Boxess said: I don t know anyone that services their own car that doesn t genuinely believe and wouldn t claim they do it better than a garage. The truth is the majority only do it to save money and only the minority do a better job of it. Having made a living out of putting right what people have messed up I wouldn t want to buy a car that was maintained by the owner if I didn t know them. Hate to say it, but it is silly issues from OPCs and Porsche specialists that make me prefer to do my own work on the car. Nothing major, but too many times you collect the car and stuff has not been done as asked. I won't name any names, but everyone on here will know them. I don't think many of them get we often wait months to get in and see them so when you get your car back and they have not done work you asked them to do because they forgot or they ran out of time, it is bloody annoying. To be fair though, I'm OK dropping an engine, fighting with fused drop links, or getting out a snapped bleed nipple on a brake calliper, so probably have an unrealistic view of what the home mechanic can do. Haha

Beertillidie said: I decided against the car after having a second look at it discovered the sound deadening on the drivers side footwear and back was soaking. So just goes to show that although car had good service history and had a verified £6,000 spent on it last year doesn't mean it's a good car to buy Common issue, blocked drains. Easier to notice during winter as you tend to get the windows mist up.

Ed.Neumann said: To be fair though, I'm OK dropping an engine, fighting with fused drop links, or getting out a snapped bleed nipple on a brake calliper, so probably have an unrealistic view of what the home mechanic can do. To be equally fair just because you have done those jobs it doesn't mean you did those jobs as well or even to a similar standard that any decent OPC/Indy would have, does it? Now not suggesting for one second you are anything other than a top class mechanic, I am sure you are, don't get me wrong, just making the point since it is one angle that is often not considered. How many people have bought used cars only to discover endless surprises afterwards over time. .................. which is why going back to what I posted above I would never buy a car from an owner who maintained it himself, unless I knew him.

981Boxess said: Ed.Neumann said: To be fair though, I'm OK dropping an engine, fighting with fused drop links, or getting out a snapped bleed nipple on a brake calliper, so probably have an unrealistic view of what the home mechanic can do. To be equally fair just because you have done those jobs it doesn't mean you did those jobs as well or even to a similar standard that any decent OPC/Indy would have, does it? Now not suggesting for one second you are anything other than a top class mechanic, I am sure you are, don't get me wrong, just making the point since it is one angle that is often not considered. How many people have bought used cars only to discover endless surprises afterwards over time. .................. which is why going back to what I posted above I would never buy a car from an owner who maintained it himself, unless I knew him. How do you know your main dealer is doing these things properly, that’s certainly not my experience with them. I think most people who insist on main dealer history have never worked for one, if they did they may have a different opinion.

981Boxess said: To be equally fair just because you have done those jobs it doesn't mean you did those jobs as well or even to a similar standard that any decent OPC/Indy would have, does it? Now not suggesting for one second you are anything other than a top class mechanic, I am sure you are, don't get me wrong, just making the point since it is one angle that is often not considered. How many people have bought used cars only to discover endless surprises afterwards over time. .................. which is why going back to what I posted above I would never buy a car from an owner who maintained it himself, unless I knew him. The OPC/indy illusion of competence/care has you strong

Beertillidie said: Thanks for the replies and advice on both sides they are much appreciated. I've had a quote for the major service from my local independent specialist (well 79 miles away) for £1200+VAT does this sound excessive or I'm i being nieve in the costs involved with with porsche ownership. Would be my first I'm surprised nobody has commented on the excessive quote by the Indy for a major service. 'Specialist' indeed

chden said: The OPC/indy illusion of competence/care has you strong The incompetence of so many DIY mechanics ‘has me strong’, not anything else.

Jellyfishfields said: How do you know your main dealer is doing these things properly, that s certainly not my experience with them. I think most people who insist on main dealer history have never worked for one, if they did they may have a different opinion. From my experience I would rather take my chances with an OPC than some of the people that mistakenly believe they are better.

981Boxess said: From my experience I would rather take my chances with an OPC than some of the people that mistakenly believe they are better. ^^ This. If an OPC does it wrong then at least you've got someone to complain to and sort it.

scrounger73 said: 981Boxess said: From my experience I would rather take my chances with an OPC than some of the people that mistakenly believe they are better. ^^ This. If an OPC does it wrong then at least you've got someone with very deep pockets to complain to and sort it. EFA

chden said: 981Boxess said: To be equally fair just because you have done those jobs it doesn't mean you did those jobs as well or even to a similar standard that any decent OPC/Indy would have, does it? Now not suggesting for one second you are anything other than a top class mechanic, I am sure you are, don't get me wrong, just making the point since it is one angle that is often not considered. How many people have bought used cars only to discover endless surprises afterwards over time. .................. which is why going back to what I posted above I would never buy a car from an owner who maintained it himself, unless I knew him. The OPC/indy illusion of competence/care has you strong Especially when you run the OPC warranty you really have nowhere else to go and just have to suck up the charges. On a 981 I'd have left the OPC fold and warranty several years ago as I'm prepared to take the risk based on the general reliability of the platform. Not everyone is like me which is none of my business. On another issue I don't believe OPCs provide the level of customer service (unless you're a big hitter/regular buyer) you come to expect from a premium brand - weeks to book a car in for service/warranty, difficulty contacting them, leaving messages but not getting a return call. Overall a poor show from several friends/colleagues who have dealt with a number of dealerships.

Armitage.Shanks said: Especially when you run the OPC warranty you really have nowhere else to go and just have to suck up the charges. On a 981 I'd have left the OPC fold and warranty several years ago as I'm prepared to take the risk based on the general reliability of the platform. Not everyone is like me which is none of my business. On another issue I don't believe OPCs provide the level of customer service (unless you're a big hitter/regular buyer) you come to expect from a premium brand - weeks to book a car in for service/warranty, difficulty contacting them, leaving messages but not getting a return call. Overall a poor show from several friends/colleagues who have dealt with a number of dealerships. To a lot of people the combined cost of servicing at an OPC and the extended warranty is not something they consider unreasonable to run a Porsche. When I sell mine, it will be mint, it will have full OPC history together with a bit of unused warranty making it an easier sell privately at above trade in money. Any warranty work has been done without any hassle, loan cars provided etc – easy. So I don’t see any real charges to ‘suck up’, the overall cost of running a warranty is not unreasonable, but as you say we are not all the same and everyone can make their own mind up on that one. As for the trauma of dealing with an OPC, you don’t need to be a big hitter, you just need to build up a working relationship with them. I have a bit of a clue when a service will be due, 2 years from the last one in my case, so to manage to book it in has never been an issue given that I have two years notice. Contacting them, I do that via WhatsApp but to be fair I have had to wait up to an hour for a reply when I have needed to, not perfect but acceptable. Between me and my immediate mates we have permanently run six Porsches, we are all equally satisfied with the deal – the one that had his PDK replaced even more so.

Armitage.Shanks said: On another issue I don't believe OPCs provide the level of customer service (unless you're a big hitter/regular buyer) you come to expect from a premium brand - weeks to book a car in for service/warranty, difficulty contacting them, leaving messages but not getting a return call. Overall a poor show from several friends/colleagues who have dealt with a number of dealerships. My experience is the exact opposite of this over many years. Simple, easy, professional. Courtesy cars every time. By way of example, last month they reopened the dealership an hour after closing so I could drop off my car as I couldn t make it during the day. It was only going for an MOT. The advisors are all individually rated on customer service, the standards are very high in my experience. I have used Reading (a lot), Brooklands, East London and West London. Consistent service.

I don't think the price for the servicing and extended warranty are bad at all, and I have never had anything but rely nice service from OPCs and the specialists. On the Macan and Cayenne I have used Porsche while under warranty. I was however talking about using Porsche vs really well documented history of all works and servicing done at home and with indys etc. as these cars get to 15 years old and can no longer qualify for the Porsche warranty. We are talking about a base Cayman here, not a GT3 or a GTS, if the op is to service it at Porsche for the next say 3 services, would he get the extra few grand come resale vs doing say a service at home every 6 months and spending the money on saved going to Porsche doing rennovation work on suspension, coolant pipes, brake lines and documenting it well? I think as Porsches hit 20 years old what buyers want to see in regards to upkeep differs very much from what they want to see when they are still at the age where they can be warrantied. I admit I am probably way off here, but I would not worry in the slightest, you may save £3-4k, and when your car is up for sale and cheapest one out there by a grand, it will sell quickly.

I wondered how long it would take for the “relationship” word to make an appearance However, I think it’s great the dealers make you feel special, and in turn you pay all the money to use them. It means the attached parts department can survive and continue to supply often fairly obscure items. It’s the best department of the whole thing, and they are normally quite competitive with their pricing.

Jellyfishfields said: It means the attached parts department can survive and continue to supply often fairly obscure items. Not sure exactly where the mark ups are applied on the parts (ie Porsche itself and / or the OPC, probably a bit of both), but they are pretty huge on a lot of stuff, so you would have thought that the parts departments would be very viable on their own. I think the main positive in terms of the service Porsche provides re maintenance is excellent parts availability. When you compare Porsche to other brands, it's shocking to see fairly recent (for instance) Audi RS models where lots of parts are already out of production and no longer available. With an aging Porsche you generally don't have to worry about whether you're not going to be able to get parts (occasionally there's a bit of a wait). You only have to worry about the price!

Jellyfishfields said: However, I think it s great the dealers make you feel special, and in turn you pay all the money to use them. The dealers don't make me feel special, they service the car allowing me the option of extending the Porsche warranty or not, which I choose to do, nobody forces me to do it. They offer a service, I am willing and able to pay what it costs and I choose to do it, it really isn't very complicated. If others choose not to extend the warranty or get them serviced cheaper elsewhere for whatever reason that is their business, not mine.

housemouse said: Not sure exactly where the mark ups are applied on the parts (ie Porsche itself and / or the OPC, probably a bit of both), but they are pretty huge on a lot of stuff, so you would have thought that the parts departments would be very viable on their own. I think the main positive in terms of the service Porsche provides re maintenance is excellent parts availability. When you compare Porsche to other brands, it's shocking to see fairly recent (for instance) Audi RS models where lots of parts are already out of production and no longer available. With an aging Porsche you generally don't have to worry about whether you're not going to be able to get parts (occasionally there's a bit of a wait). You only have to worry about the price! I'm not sure what the mark up is on their parts, what I have seen is that if you want genuine stuff then they are often cheaper than online places. It also seems you can negotiate a good discount with them if dealing direct. In my experience the parts department has been really good. I remember when I got my first air cooled a few years back, very impressive what they still carry, if not in the UK then they can usually get them over from Germany. I wouldn't be surprised if the service department makes more than sales and parts put together, in saying that Porsche sell quite a few cars nowadays, so who knows.

981Boxess said: Jellyfishfields said: However, I think it s great the dealers make you feel special, and in turn you pay all the money to use them. The dealers don't make me feel special, they service the car allowing me the option of extending the Porsche warranty or not, which I choose to do, nobody forces me to do it. They offer a service, I am willing and able to pay what it costs and I choose to do it, it really isn't very complicated. If others choose not to extend the warranty or get them serviced cheaper elsewhere for whatever reason that is their business, not mine. Then I'm glad to read you feel that way, rather than the rather derogatory comments you were making earlier, or perhaps I misunderstood you. Not so much on here nowadays, but on another couple of websites the level of knowledge expressed by some of the members is quite amazing. Same thing when you speak with some of the independent servicing places. I simply don't get that impression when speaking with main dealers, not on older stuff at least. As you just said, it's up to the individual how they want to play it, truth is, there are ups and downs to both.

Jellyfishfields said: I'm not sure what the mark up is on their parts. It's a lot. On occasion, you can source the actual parts Porsche sells direct from the manufacturer, such as TRW suspension arms with the Porsche logos ground off. These are not the usual "OEM" quality parts. They are literally exactly the same parts Porsche sells / fitted to the cars from new. Typically, the Porsche price is 3-4x the non Porsche price for such parts. And that's compared to a retail price for the non-Porsche-supplied part that still includes margin for both the manufacturer and one or two middlemen to make money. So, it's one heck of a mark up, albeit still not as ludicrous as some brands, like Ferrari.

Yes, you're quite right about the brakes, suspension arms, radiators and the like, I normally get those from Autdoc, unless it's something I need quickly. I was meaning for for the parts that are Porsche only, especially for the old air cool stuff. They are normally cheaper than Design 911, for example. In saying that, when last buying brake pads for the Cayman, my local Porsche dealer was competitive, that was for PCCB though. It just depends how much discount they can put on, it certainly seems they have a fair bit to play with. They were also surprisingly cheap for tyres when I last bought, easily beating black circles and the like.

I buy my spares from Autodoc, the OPC or Design 911. I'm reasonably confident and experienced in my abilities having built and run my tarmac rally cars and single seater race cars in the past, not to mention most of my road cars for years. There's enough stuff on Youtube to guide you. If there's anything that might require a bit of extra attention, I use my local Indie who runs his own GT4 Cayman and also races MX5's at the pointy end of the grid. For example, they will be changing the PDK/transmission fluids in the coming weeks as it's a faff for me to access. I'd rather do it myself and use the cost savings fropm not using an OPC to spend on more pre-emptive maintenance. I mean, how can it be good practice for 2 year/20,000 oil changes and several years for the engine air filters for example.

Jellyfishfields said: Then I'm glad to read you feel that way, rather than the rather derogatory comments you were making earlier, or perhaps I misunderstood you. Such as?