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YOUR RESEARCHAbout to buy first Porsche
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Check ac control
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Suggestion
During test drive, all check braking for pull in the steering and/or soft braking under heavy stops.
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Suggestion
Check coolant expansion tank for pressure and inspect coolant to rule any possible intermix
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Joined this forum looking for some help. About to buy my first Porsche, obvi has to be a 911. Was looking at 997s for a while, but for whatever reason they didn�t excite me THAT much (except the turbo of course, which is out of budget). The 996 has always attracted so much rancor as you all know, but I�m now really drawn to the styling. Blah blah anyway. I�m looking at an �02 C4S. How do I vet the car? What tests do I need to get done? Plz help me not **** this up.
Good time to buy one.
Here is what you want to consider doing.
1. Get the service records. It's like a medical history. It will tell you how many oil changes, issues, procedures and parts have been replaced and when. No service records, run from the car.
2. Assuming you have the service history and it's a good one, you next want to get the car in at a damn good Porsche specific indy to get a PPI done. While in the shop have them do the following as well.
(2a) get a sample of the oil and send it in for testing.
(2b) have them drop the oil sump to look for debris.
(2c) While the sump is dropped have the bores scoped from the sump to see if you have any bore scoring. Make sure its done from the sump amd not the sperk plug holes.
(2d) lastly, have them remove the oil filter and check it for debris.
As you can see, the analysis will cost you for the PPI and oil/sump/bore analysis, but it will be worth it to know you got a good one.
However, I wouldn't spend a penny on any car if there are not any service records. It means that the previous owner or owners didn't take care of it. Don't waste your time.
When you find one with service records that you have an interest in, let us know what service and procedures have been done to it over its life and we can weigh in on what you will need to do for parts replacement and service, as well as what it will cost you.
That is super detailed and incredibly helpful, I really appreciate it! Here is the car I�m looking at:
https://www.luxsport.com/2004-porsch...a-4s-c-939.htm
Im going to email them tmrw and ask for service records. Will update this thread when I get them!
I bought my first Porsche two years ago - silver C4 convertible from a local lady who had owned it for ten years and had the local garage change the oil and do an annual MOT and that was it. It has the same miles as the one you are looking at but is a 1999 model. I had no knowledge when I bought it of the significance of the year and had no idea what an IMS bearing was or an RMS.
I absolutely love the car as does my wife who hated the TVR Chimaera 500 that it replaced. It does look as though you have a full set of service records available but to be honest I am not sure these will give you much protection against an IMS bearing failure. It is definitely a version I covert and I think the colour suits it. One word of warning- check how old the tyres are. Twenty year old cars with low miles tend to be garage princesses. Mine had lots of tread on the tyres but were 8 years old and very hard. Replacing them made a big difference.
Beautiful car!
At 55k, it is premium priced. But low mileage, one-owner, and essentially full service records at a Porsche dealer are worth a lot. Service items are a factor of age as well as mileage. Should have had.....
Regular oil changes
Plugs
Air and cabin filters
Brake flush
Serpentine belt
Maybe brakes. If not, they will be in the future
Recent tires (at this price)
Also IMS bearing may have been updated.
If prev owner followed dealer recommendations, they should have done this work.
What a beautiful car. I hope it all checks out.
At that price, the IMS should be replaced if not already.
If the bores are ok from the bottom, there's really not much else I personally would be concerned about.
You are not likely to find many white 4s out there.
I have to agree with last post, you might could get into a 996 Turbo for not much more money, although it likely would not be white or have low miles like that, however as your 996 ownership knowledge expands you may well hear the word
Metzger engine, which is considered by most to be bullet proof, that engine is in the Turbo and the GT cars of that era, TBH you could likely get into a 996 that's very good for 10-15k less than that asking price, i would suggest that your use for the new car will make a difference, if you want something to bring to local car shows and just weekend it and keep mostly pristine then that car may be your car, if you want to rack up some miles do some track or HPDE days then something with a few more miles might make sense to you...
I picked up a 2000 model year Aerokit car sub 40k during covid, with 74,000 miles and a full service history with all the heavy maintenance and the IMS, RMS and clutch done, if i was shopping at 55k i would go Turbo even if its got a few more miles. i would likely even do a Tiptronic 996.2 as the later Tip has apparently better shifting.
Good Luck with the search.
one thing i noticed on the carfax for that car, it was sold in New York, so a Northern Car likely used in winter as its a C4S you would have to wonder about corrosion underneath, not necessarily the chassis but that would also be a concern, but any piece of metal thats exposed underneath to the elements, even muffler nuts and bolts, head studs on the exhaust manifolds, all the coolant clamps have likely been exposed to the elements, it is possible that the one owner was very6 fastidious and had the underneath of the car washed after each winter drive, and or garaged the car all winter, but at 44k miles only in summer use would be unlikely.
just food for thought..
they're asking slightly below turbo money for that car! appears to be sold so you can keep looking - i bought my first 2002 911 for 32k w/ 18kmi in 08/09, market is softening now so you should find healthy deals. GL
@the_wolperting
there are plenty more 996 C4S' for sale. Get involved with your local PCA region and start going to events and talk it up with members about what you are looking for. Stop in at the local dealer and talk to the sales and service guys. Keep in the back of your mind that the service guys know more than the sales guys about the people and cars they service. Same can be said for the local Porsche Indys. Life is a networking exercise. You may be surprised what you come up with. Most importantly, it will be easier to ascertain the service history of the car quickly.
IMHO, the 996 C4S is the most sexy of Carrera models with its Turbo wide body, Turbo front bumper skin, and iconic rear center reflector. These are pretty special cars.
As far as tests, it's always wise to have a pre-purchase inspection from a Porsche shop that can run the following inspections:
Engine:
1. Bore Scope inspection to rule out scoring. Listen for a ticking sound on the passenger side under the rear wheel well.
2. Manometer to rule out vacuum leaks, especially a failing AOS
3. Check coolant expansion tank for pressure and inspect coolant to rule any possible intermix
4. Drop the oil sump to inspect for metal debris or at least cut and examine the oil filter
5. With diagnostic scanner, check the following:
a. Overevs - (avoid cars with excessive stage 2 overrevs)
b. Readiness status - check to make sure the car's CEL hasn't been erased and it's "ready" for an emissions check
c. Rough running index - to check the health of the cylinders and firing
d. Camshaft deviations - to check timing and wear on the chain guides. No more than 6 degrees of deviation
e. Fuel Trim
6. Examine serpentine belt for wear.
7. Listen for any usual squealing noises that could point to tensioners going bad or a component.
8. Look for fluid drips. Oil around any component. Coolant around the water pump.
Suspension/Brakes/Wheels:
1. Check all suspension components for looseness
2. Examine boot for ruptures on t-rods
3. Check all bushings
4. See if anything has been swapped for aftermarket.
5. Examine wear on the rotors and brake pads. Is there a sensor pad DTC on the gauges?
6. Spin and shake the tires for noise related to wheel bearings
7. While driving turn the steering at low speed to see if strut bearing need replacement
8. Drive slowly over speed bumps and listen for squeaks or other noises
9. During test drive closely examine the alignment and if there is any vibration and shake in the steering
10 During test drive get the car up to higher speed on the freeway to see if it holds steady or feels loose.
11. During test drive, all check braking for pull in the steering and/or soft braking under heavy stops.
Interior:
1. Let your inner child come out and check all the obvious (mirror lights work, shades holds, etc.)
2. Check the windows for grinding noises which is usually a faulty window regulator
3. If it's cabriolet, check the function of the top several times to make sure windows drop, and the top opens and closes without pause
4. Slightly pull on the door handle to confirm window drop works correctly.
5. Test all buttons for functionality.
6. Check radio. The first run of the MOST (PCM2 or CDR-24) were very problematic and prone to failure.
7. Check AC control. Turn on heat full blast. These AC systems were known to have blend door problems. If you don't have heat, then it may be a blend door issue.
8. Check gauges and make sure no DTC or CEL come on during test drive.
9. Check key fobs for function and walk a distance to test range. The fobs are known to fail at this age. Replacement is about $400 - $500 each.
10. Check all functions of the seats, especially is electronic positioning with heat.
11. Test the sunroof for functionality. Test one button open and close.
12. Closely examine all leather surfaces for cracks, shrinkage, etc.
13. Examine headliner. Is it drooping?
Frunk/Rear deck lid:
1. Check and make sure you have a tool kit. The C4S doesn't come with a spare, but if you have wheel key lugs, you need to make sure the key socket is available.
2. Check frunk and deck lid interior lights
3. Examine the under the frunk bonnet for option sticker. If missing, it come mean an accident where the hood was replaced.
4. Pop the frunk/rear deck lid with FOB and button on the door seal for functionality of opening. They're electronically actuated.
Lighting:
1. Check the obvious. Find a dark area and test all interior and exterior lighting.
2. The light switches are another failure point, while testing make sure the lights don't flicker.
3. With someone to help, test all brake and turn signal lighting.
4. Check the xenon HID balancing
5. Examine front headlight enclosures for oxidation
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
this is on point, i went to my local indy and he had a Turbo car that looked like it would be good to improve upon it wasn't pristine but it was a Turbo..i asked him if it was for sale and he said his customer was selling it... but advised against it as he said that particular customer would not do any preventative maintenance and would not spend any money on the car.. he shook his head emphatically it was a no no..i took my car after i bought it to the same indy and he was very positive about my car and didnt try to upsell me on anything..let me look underneath that's when i discovered i had a factory replacement engine.. so a good indy is worth their weight in knowledge
I deleted most of the above quoted list in the interest of space. This is one of the best inspection checklists I have seen. I've saved it for the next time I'm looking at a 911, or the next time somebody asks what to check. Thanks.
Like the 996 Turbo, the AWD 996 C4S has the �hump in the frunk� because the front drive assembly and fuel tank. I believe it comes with a tire repair kit?🤷♂️ Not totally sure on that.
thank you. Please forgive the errors in my writing� I was at work doing a millions things at once and didn�t have time to check.
Hope it helps someone.
This is how I remeber seeing it...a collapasable spare & compressor kit under the frunk foor panel. I can't be certain this applies to all years, but it was a 996.2 C4S where I saw it.
As far as I know all C4/C4S/Turbo/GT2/GT3 have the collapsable spare.
The GT2/GT3/PCCB Turbo collapsable spare is different, the C4S/Iron Turbo spare won't fit over 350mm rotors.
FYI. I bought an '05 997.1 coupe several years ago and the Porsche dealer did a full 40K service and inspection of the car before my purchase ( that was part of the deal)....They did not do a deep PPI on the car and I had to have the engine rebuilt. Do the right thing and get a top of the line PPI done! Pays off in the long range. As a foot note, My car is fantastic and love it! Good luck!
No spare on the GT cars. Just a can of fix-a-flat and a compressor.
OP if you are looking to spend $55k and want AWD/widebody, just reach a bit and buy a Turbo. No point in dealing with the M96.0 time bomb, just get the good motor and be done with it.
You're right I misread the parts catalog.
There are two different collapsible spares for the 6TT though, one for 330mm and a different one for 350mm rotors.
I don't disagree, but this car would be garage kept/third car situation. I honestly am struggling find a decent low mileage 996 C4S below the 55k threshold, and the low mileage turbos I've seen are pushing 70k! Not sure where else to look but open to suggestions!
Thank you so much, this is amazing! Unfortunately when I emailed them to inquire the car had just been sold! But I will update this thread once I find something else that I'd like to buy.
Since its a 3rd car, go with a C2 or a C4. You will save $15-20k and use those savings to refresh the car. Nice set of wheels and rubber and a set of spacers will make the car look very meaty. Add in a LSD and you will have all the traction you need.
OP - If $55k is your ceiling, you�re right about the C4S prices. That white one is a unicorn. If you want AWD a turbo with 40-50,000 miles is ballpark low $60�s to low $70�s. Me? 40th AE or turbo for weekend fun wagon�now that I could afford one. Wasn�t so, 7 years ago when I got my first C2. Mezger for peace of mind and fewer trips to the RL �brain trust� for $15k more.
Most importantly though, wait for the one that speaks to you.
Anything with less than 50k miles is going to be hard to find and when you do find it, it will be expensive as hell. Honestly though there is no real mechanical reason to look for such a car if you plan on actually driving the thing. The turbos are rock solid and dont suffer from the M96 motors issues. You can definitely find a nice 996TT with 75k miles for around 60k USD.
So the crux in my opinion is what does a person consider low mileage.
MY model year 2000, C2 Aerokit car had almost 74,000 miles drove really well, had all the major maintenance and then some done, as an Aerokit it looks special enough to me to be something i would enjoy looking at, and from what i have read all the non-metzger engined cars whether they are a C2 a C4 a C4s have about the same power, so handling characteristics then come into it.
I have come full circle on the investment discussion on the 996 model, and i think that part of the equation is best put aside, there is also a school of thought that too low a mileage is also bad, so whats your sweet spot on mileage?
as someone that is driving my C2 most weeks 50 - 100 miles or so, ill take a very highly maintained car with all its maintenance done with a body in very good condition with 70,000 miles or so over something with an unclear history of maintenance
at a lower mileage.
In the end you have to buy what you love and do the best you can with the rest of it, i think take your time doing the research learn the brand and model, buy a car from an enthusiast, and not from a dealer who will have a 10k or more mark up on anything they sell. the one advfantage a dealer will have is they might take a trade in and that has a convenience factor.
Places to look to buy:-
BAT for research read the comments sections to pick up knowledge..
PCA market (Porsche club of America)
Cars for sale here on rennlist
Possibly a Porsche independent dealer who specializes in high end cars, but this is where you have to be really careful and vet them really well.
Good Luck and enjoy the journey to the purchase its all part of the fun...
Omg so I think I found a car. My friend, who is a collector himself, went in person to check it all out cosmetically and said it looks perfect. His mechanic is going on Saturday to do a full PPI, put it on a lift, cold start it, etc.
Here is a link to the eBay listing (I didn't find it through eBay but this listing has the best pics):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30476863926...Bk9SR5KuxuDFYQ
It seems to have all the right service records and has had all the right fixes taken care of. Anyway, it's mine pending a solid inspection on Saturday.
What do you guys think?
It does look clean, I am a fan of Silver, compared to white..although it is more common it just looks better. that big service just done recently should save you a ton of money over the next couple of years it shouldn't need anything but an oil change.
if your super excited then it might be the car for you, however the PPI is important.
Good Luck..
Regards Gary
It's clean! And I'm taking it.
Had my buddy show up to meet the mechanic today (what a guy he is, by the way) so he was there for the PPI. He said the car is as clean a 20 year old car gets. Now I have to find a great local shop near me in West LA...any suggestions? Will follow up with pictures once I take delivery!
Maybe, open up your search target. On the low side An early 99 c2 is a lot of bang for the buck. A good decent mile white car just sold for $19.5. Sold in 1-2 days.
On the high side Ever consider a 991? Prices are at lows at the moment and good ones can be had for 60’s. No offense to the 996 but Id you can sneak your budget up and get the newest model you can.
search PCA.org
edit I see you may have just found a car. Congrats
Here it is! Loving it so far. It is so clean and a real beauty.
Not loving what a pain in the *** to pass the smog test. Should I just register in Montana?
Did the mechanic inspect all the cylinders with a bore scope? Mind posting the pictures? Thanks!
This would be my concern, especially when you're having trouble getting it to pass smog...
